I agree with you guys. The unpopular answer is to just do a 5.x.x layout in cases where the couch is against the back wall. Sometimes less speakers is more ;)
Just a suggestion is to put the side surrounds on the floor under each arm to bounce of the walls as more of an ambient effect. I can confirm it works a treat. 😁
For my 9.2.6 setup I have in my small theater, I built eight sound panels that I've installed my in-wall speakers into. So my speakers are flushed on the wall, it helps with the walkway, and it helps to not have the surround so close. Tuned it with Dirac and it sounds amazing!
Really like this as a solution to conceal the speakers, are your acoustic treatments homemade? Currently one of my side speakers interferes with the step on my riser a little bit
@TrueLies23 yes, all of my acoustic treatments are all home built, , and they're all insulated inside of the acoustic panels. I made a frame within a frame inside the acoustic panels where the In wall speaker slides into. And I purchased some black fabric, that I placed around the acoustic panels. It works really good when you're in a tight space and you don't want people knocking off your speakers from the wall. Or have to worry about them being so close.
I was never happy with my rear surrounds until i got the bipole klipsch RP-502S. I have Klipsch RP 5.2.4 setup in my man cave living room w/ my couch almost against the wall. Also, running dirac did an amazing job with the surrounds / atmos.
I have two recliners facing the TV against the wall instead of using bookshelves for surrounds I use Slants and put each one behind each chair in the middle of each chair that way I don't have a speaker blaring in one ear and not the other
One solution is to throw the rears out of phase and adjust the delay. You can make the room sound bigger more spacious like this and create the illusion of distance/space. It's basically what these little sound bar things do, and definitely the game Dirac is playing! Cheers 🍻
Dirac does not do that from what I've seen from my measurements. It does impulse response alignment and full-range phase alignment into the higher frequencies. There is no indication that the surrounds have an inverted phase. In my measurements, all the speakers were aligned at 0°. I'm not saying your idea can possibly give a more spacious effect, although I think purposely adding more delay can have a similar effect. I don't think it's the best idea considering object-based formats rely on imaging between various speakers and it does not expect to see out-of-phase surrounds. Also, the Haas effect allows us to still locate the originating source of sound as being too close to us regardless if we add extra delay to the speakers. The fact that they are closer to us already means that auto-calibration software will inherently add more delay to them compared to other speakers that are further away. It is true that sound bars use out of phase signals to make the bar sound wider. I've tested several sound bars that will put an out of phase signals to the right speaker when playing a test tone on the left speaker and vice versa. - Joe
@@DailyHiFi : Sound bars do exactly as I've described (most if not all of them), Dirac changes phase as well and that is why I thew them into the same category. Because it's a fake it till ya make method of tuning and I really quite hate it!
@@DailyHiFi : Yeah man, I read that. But I'm not sure you understand why I said what I did. Sorry for my lack luster reply, I'm doing roof repair and cooking a turkey while replying, I'm all over the place. But now it's just turkey and this topic 😁. What I said about phase is not incorrect according to "Poes Acoustics". I was sent this link directly from Dirac -- ruclips.net/video/Af6T46BQ59I/видео.html What I said may be incomplete, but not incorrect. When things and stuff start messing around with phase, I have a real problem with that and yes Dirac is playing the phase game. I'm sure you've seen some YT video with that horrible background music where they are bending a tune or note to make it a minor or an out of tune sound. I hate that with a passion I cannot describe! But in like kind I hate phase adjustment as well. I can hear it, feel it, taste it, and it's disgusting to me! Messing with phase messes with me in bad ways, it just does. Hopefully that link I posted helps explain my point. Cheers 🍻
I have 5.2.4 and sit against the back wall. I can't really pull the couch forward because there is only 3 ft between the tv and the ottoman and the coffee table. I did front highs and top middle, but I placed is slightly forward. 2-3ft in front of me on the ceiling. 4 ft from the rear wall to have enough separation from the surrounds which are placed on the rear wall. Not even 1 ft above ear level. Just to clear the listener's head, so the person on the opposite side can hear the surrounds. I think it's the best atmos setup for a limited space when you have to sit by the back wall. Sidenote: some dude on avsforum literally trying to bully me into stop posting because I refuse to pull my couch away from the wall.. He recognizes my name and even if I post something completely unrelated to couch position he would still bug me with his crap
Oh man, when ever I get time I have to send you guys pics of my setup. You guys are going to die laughing at it. But when you only got so much room. And there are now 6 people in my house for a while. My daughter and son in law moved in for a while. Is there an email I can send to? You guys can chat about my adding the .4 in my system someday when I can afford it. Cheers!
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
I agree with you guys. The unpopular answer is to just do a 5.x.x layout in cases where the couch is against the back wall. Sometimes less speakers is more ;)
Just a suggestion is to put the side surrounds on the floor under each arm to bounce of the walls as more of an ambient effect. I can confirm it works a treat. 😁
For my 9.2.6 setup I have in my small theater, I built eight sound panels that I've installed my in-wall speakers into. So my speakers are flushed on the wall, it helps with the walkway, and it helps to not have the surround so close. Tuned it with Dirac and it sounds amazing!
Really like this as a solution to conceal the speakers, are your acoustic treatments homemade? Currently one of my side speakers interferes with the step on my riser a little bit
@TrueLies23 yes, all of my acoustic treatments are all home built, , and they're all insulated inside of the acoustic panels. I made a frame within a frame inside the acoustic panels where the In wall speaker slides into. And I purchased some black fabric, that I placed around the acoustic panels. It works really good when you're in a tight space and you don't want people knocking off your speakers from the wall. Or have to worry about them being so close.
I was never happy with my rear surrounds until i got the bipole klipsch RP-502S. I have Klipsch RP 5.2.4 setup in my man cave living room w/ my couch almost against the wall. Also, running dirac did an amazing job with the surrounds / atmos.
I have two recliners facing the TV against the wall instead of using bookshelves for surrounds I use Slants and put each one behind each chair in the middle of each chair that way I don't have a speaker blaring in one ear and not the other
One solution is to throw the rears out of phase and adjust the delay. You can make the room sound bigger more spacious like this and create the illusion of distance/space. It's basically what these little sound bar things do, and definitely the game Dirac is playing!
Cheers 🍻
Dirac does not do that from what I've seen from my measurements. It does impulse response alignment and full-range phase alignment into the higher frequencies. There is no indication that the surrounds have an inverted phase. In my measurements, all the speakers were aligned at 0°.
I'm not saying your idea can possibly give a more spacious effect, although I think purposely adding more delay can have a similar effect. I don't think it's the best idea considering object-based formats rely on imaging between various speakers and it does not expect to see out-of-phase surrounds. Also, the Haas effect allows us to still locate the originating source of sound as being too close to us regardless if we add extra delay to the speakers. The fact that they are closer to us already means that auto-calibration software will inherently add more delay to them compared to other speakers that are further away.
It is true that sound bars use out of phase signals to make the bar sound wider. I've tested several sound bars that will put an out of phase signals to the right speaker when playing a test tone on the left speaker and vice versa.
- Joe
@@DailyHiFi :
Sound bars do exactly as I've described (most if not all of them), Dirac changes phase as well and that is why I thew them into the same category. Because it's a fake it till ya make method of tuning and I really quite hate it!
You could also raise the speakers above your head. Experiment.
I agreed with what you said about sound bars. What you're saying about Dirac is false though. - Joe
@@DailyHiFi :
Yeah man, I read that. But I'm not sure you understand why I said what I did. Sorry for my lack luster reply, I'm doing roof repair and cooking a turkey while replying, I'm all over the place. But now it's just turkey and this topic 😁.
What I said about phase is not incorrect according to "Poes Acoustics". I was sent this link directly from Dirac -- ruclips.net/video/Af6T46BQ59I/видео.html
What I said may be incomplete, but not incorrect. When things and stuff start messing around with phase, I have a real problem with that and yes Dirac is playing the phase game. I'm sure you've seen some YT video with that horrible background music where they are bending a tune or note to make it a minor or an out of tune sound. I hate that with a passion I cannot describe! But in like kind I hate phase adjustment as well. I can hear it, feel it, taste it, and it's disgusting to me! Messing with phase messes with me in bad ways, it just does.
Hopefully that link I posted helps explain my point.
Cheers 🍻
I have 5.2.4 and sit against the back wall. I can't really pull the couch forward because there is only 3 ft between the tv and the ottoman and the coffee table. I did front highs and top middle, but I placed is slightly forward. 2-3ft in front of me on the ceiling. 4 ft from the rear wall to have enough separation from the surrounds which are placed on the rear wall. Not even 1 ft above ear level. Just to clear the listener's head, so the person on the opposite side can hear the surrounds. I think it's the best atmos setup for a limited space when you have to sit by the back wall.
Sidenote: some dude on avsforum literally trying to bully me into stop posting because I refuse to pull my couch away from the wall.. He recognizes my name and even if I post something completely unrelated to couch position he would still bug me with his crap
Oh man, when ever I get time I have to send you guys pics of my setup. You guys are going to die laughing at it. But when you only got so much room. And there are now 6 people in my house for a while. My daughter and son in law moved in for a while. Is there an email I can send to? You guys can chat about my adding the .4 in my system someday when I can afford it. Cheers!