I noticed he didn't mention disarm as a cunning strike. I hope it hasn't been removed, it was the only other non optional way to disarm and made the rogue have a pretty unique mechanic.
01. Weapon mastery........Great we love it 02. Cunning Strike 5th level - Trading sneak attack damage for other effects..........I'm not sure about this. Trading straight up damage for these other effects sounds great. - But how much are we going to have to give up? - Are the effects auto happen or will there be a save involved? Yes, these questions matter. 03. You now get reliable talent at an earlier level.........okay not bad. 04. Thiefs cant - gives an extra language........Well hell yeah 05. Steady Aim - Giving you advantage but you can't move. Thank you Tasha 06. Slippery Mind - Now gives you prof in WIS and CHA saves...........Cool Because you don't have to give up the extra damage dice (it's optional) for the other effects the rogues still has high damage, and they get more stuff for that is out of combat that could be used for in combat. I don't see why people are saying the Rogue is mid, got nerfed, or some of the other things. I mean these things seem really good and helpful. We still need to see the final product but looking good so far.
Hey you might have found it already but in the blog post in DnDBeyond site they added the cost in sneak attack dice in the breakdown of the rogue changes and some more things with more detail. They look pretty good to me, super excited.
At about 2:44, Jeremy Crawford says the rogue has a higher-level ability to just knock out an enemy rather than kill them. But isn't that something that ANYbody can do in 5e right now? From the 5e Player's Handbook, Ch. 9 Combat, Knocking a Creature Out: "Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable."
All the updated subclasses look like fun, especially the Soulknife. Personally, I like the Scout subclass, mainly because it's a few steps shy of being an authentic shinobi (male shinobi are called Ninja, and female shinobi are called Kunoichi); I hope that when the updated Scout comes in, it will lean more into that authentic shinobi theming. There are some places online, especially RUclips, where you can learn more about that; the channel by Gaijin Goombah covers all this quite a bit, especially in his Which Ninja? series on the channel, which breaks down Shinobi in popular media and passes judgment on how authentically Ninja is the character. (He also has a series called Which Samurai? that does the same for Samurai in popular media).
It’s clearly underpowered here, it genuinely bothers me hearing him act like the sneak attack “does a lot of damage” when the average DPR is significantly weaker than any class melee or ranged, caster or martial (outside of a utility based bard) Since pass w/o a trace, still exist the rogue isn’t going to excel in stealth and spell utility is going to leave rogues skill checks mostly useless (also bards exist) I am seriously wondering why they are proud of this. I think cunning action is thematically cool, but it’s essentially a gamble to do less damage to use a feature after gambling to hit. On top of that the levels between subclass is going to leave build variety feeling absolutely stale. The reason why this is concerning is the power creep that’s being implemented for other classes/subclasses. I’m curious on why would someone would pick a rogue over a ranger with the current changes
Massively disappointed. Why would anyone continue in rogue to gain the option of additional manoeuvrability like disarming and tripping when they could multi class into battle master and gain these features whilst adding damage instead. Also massively disappointed with how they have significantly weakened assassins and made their damage much lower. I’m a player who only plays rogues and am gonna stick with the old rules cuz these new additions to rogues are mediocre. I understand that more options isn’t a bad thing but when you are trading damage dice for them when another subclass can do the same thing while adding damage instead, it just doesn’t make sense to stick with rogue.
@@TheOriginalDogLP The difference being that you’re going to use the 4 battle master manoeuvres between every short rest but I can’t imagine using the new rogue features close to 4 times between each short rest because the loss of damage just isn’t worth it. The battle master does the same thing (with more options) but instead of removing damage, you get to add damage. I get that it’s limited but it’s far superior to multiclass - I’d rather be a rogue/fighter and opt for the battle manoeuvre when I would ordinarily use cunning strikes because I’m never going to use cunning strikes more than 4 times per short/long rest and this way I get to add damage. I understand more options aren’t a bad thing but they could have implemented it a lot better.
A bit disappointed Cunning Strikes is still one of the worst designed features in the new edition (outside of those stat locked backgrounds). No one, not a damn soul, has ever said the rogue does a lot of damage and many see it as not doing enough, so the main thing you add to the class is a way to do LESS? For almost no benefit? Prone? Cool now the enemy is on the floor, I have at best a weak follow-up attack if any at all and my ranged companions can barely hit it now. Poisoned? Well 1/4 of the monsters in the game resist that and it only prevents healing something monsters rarely do in combat. Disengage? Right the thing rogues had so much issue with before (melee rogues will just use the Nick property for second attack and Cunning Action to get away). And they all COST me my damage output? That's the big selling point? C'mon.
@@TheOriginalDogLP Oh conceptually it's a fine idea. Being able to do more stuff is good, but it's still abysmal game design on the paper and will do little for anyone in combat save for niche scenarios. The rogue is just going to be outclassed by every class in combat now and it feels terrible. I guess enjoy the *chance* of knocking an enemy prone on the occasion it would be helpful over just outright defeating them.
@@PaddyTheLilGuy That's the point, my dude. There's 3 dead levels now for the rogue that just out and out suck. Feels bad when other classes are getting so much more and WOTC got so lazy with the rogue like they do all the time.
@@PaddyTheLilGuy so basically they added nothing to the rogue then, unless I am correct and they took away cunning action and replaced it with cunning strike... in which case they made it inferior to the 2014 version.
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I noticed he didn't mention disarm as a cunning strike. I hope it hasn't been removed, it was the only other non optional way to disarm and made the rogue have a pretty unique mechanic.
01. Weapon mastery........Great we love it
02. Cunning Strike 5th level - Trading sneak attack damage for other effects..........I'm not sure about this. Trading straight up damage for these other effects sounds great.
- But how much are we going to have to give up?
- Are the effects auto happen or will there be a save involved? Yes, these questions matter.
03. You now get reliable talent at an earlier level.........okay not bad.
04. Thiefs cant - gives an extra language........Well hell yeah
05. Steady Aim - Giving you advantage but you can't move. Thank you Tasha
06. Slippery Mind - Now gives you prof in WIS and CHA saves...........Cool
Because you don't have to give up the extra damage dice (it's optional) for the other effects the rogues still has high damage, and they get more stuff for that is out of combat that could be used for in combat. I don't see why people are saying the Rogue is mid, got nerfed, or some of the other things.
I mean these things seem really good and helpful. We still need to see the final product but looking good so far.
Hey you might have found it already but in the blog post in DnDBeyond site they added the cost in sneak attack dice in the breakdown of the rogue changes and some more things with more detail. They look pretty good to me, super excited.
@@nicolaslandgraf7317 Thank you I'm going to have to check that out.
At about 2:44, Jeremy Crawford says the rogue has a higher-level ability to just knock out an enemy rather than kill them. But isn't that something that ANYbody can do in 5e right now? From the 5e Player's Handbook, Ch. 9 Combat, Knocking a Creature Out:
"Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable."
He alludes to a rogue not needing to reduce a target to 0 hp.
@@sinisterplank3113 That makes more sense. Thank you.
Maybe you can apply the sleep condition or something without having to reduce their HP to 0?
The Thief sounds amazing fun.
All the updated subclasses look like fun, especially the Soulknife. Personally, I like the Scout subclass, mainly because it's a few steps shy of being an authentic shinobi (male shinobi are called Ninja, and female shinobi are called Kunoichi); I hope that when the updated Scout comes in, it will lean more into that authentic shinobi theming. There are some places online, especially RUclips, where you can learn more about that; the channel by Gaijin Goombah covers all this quite a bit, especially in his Which Ninja? series on the channel, which breaks down Shinobi in popular media and passes judgment on how authentically Ninja is the character. (He also has a series called Which Samurai? that does the same for Samurai in popular media).
Our main job with rouge was to not mess it up. Mean while with paladin they fumbled the bag.
As a person who plays a lot of rogues, consider me underwhelmed
Same
Same
It’s clearly underpowered here, it genuinely bothers me hearing him act like the sneak attack “does a lot of damage” when the average DPR is significantly weaker than any class melee or ranged, caster or martial (outside of a utility based bard)
Since pass w/o a trace, still exist the rogue isn’t going to excel in stealth and spell utility is going to leave rogues skill checks mostly useless (also bards exist) I am seriously wondering why they are proud of this. I think cunning action is thematically cool, but it’s essentially a gamble to do less damage to use a feature after gambling to hit. On top of that the levels between subclass is going to leave build variety feeling absolutely stale.
The reason why this is concerning is the power creep that’s being implemented for other classes/subclasses.
I’m curious on why would someone would pick a rogue over a ranger with the current changes
Not to screw it up.
Completely screwed it up and made it useless.
Such great artwork
Where is my Mastermind? 😮
In XGtE, You will still be able to play it with 2024 version of Rogue.
Massively disappointed. Why would anyone continue in rogue to gain the option of additional manoeuvrability like disarming and tripping when they could multi class into battle master and gain these features whilst adding damage instead.
Also massively disappointed with how they have significantly weakened assassins and made their damage much lower.
I’m a player who only plays rogues and am gonna stick with the old rules cuz these new additions to rogues are mediocre. I understand that more options isn’t a bad thing but when you are trading damage dice for them when another subclass can do the same thing while adding damage instead, it just doesn’t make sense to stick with rogue.
Battle Master relies on a limited resource that runs dry fast.
Disarm is gone. Confirmed in DNDBeyond.
Battlemaster cant use maneuvers every turn for a long time...
@@TheOriginalDogLP The difference being that you’re going to use the 4 battle master manoeuvres between every short rest but I can’t imagine using the new rogue features close to 4 times between each short rest because the loss of damage just isn’t worth it. The battle master does the same thing (with more options) but instead of removing damage, you get to add damage. I get that it’s limited but it’s far superior to multiclass - I’d rather be a rogue/fighter and opt for the battle manoeuvre when I would ordinarily use cunning strikes because I’m never going to use cunning strikes more than 4 times per short/long rest and this way I get to add damage.
I understand more options aren’t a bad thing but they could have implemented it a lot better.
Fix the market place
This new edition seems overly complex for no reason at all.
A bit disappointed Cunning Strikes is still one of the worst designed features in the new edition (outside of those stat locked backgrounds). No one, not a damn soul, has ever said the rogue does a lot of damage and many see it as not doing enough, so the main thing you add to the class is a way to do LESS? For almost no benefit? Prone? Cool now the enemy is on the floor, I have at best a weak follow-up attack if any at all and my ranged companions can barely hit it now. Poisoned? Well 1/4 of the monsters in the game resist that and it only prevents healing something monsters rarely do in combat. Disengage? Right the thing rogues had so much issue with before (melee rogues will just use the Nick property for second attack and Cunning Action to get away). And they all COST me my damage output? That's the big selling point? C'mon.
I like it, adds versatility. You can always just go full dmg if the tactical option isnt worth it.
@@TheOriginalDogLP Oh conceptually it's a fine idea. Being able to do more stuff is good, but it's still abysmal game design on the paper and will do little for anyone in combat save for niche scenarios. The rogue is just going to be outclassed by every class in combat now and it feels terrible. I guess enjoy the *chance* of knocking an enemy prone on the occasion it would be helpful over just outright defeating them.
You don’t have to use Cunning Strike…
@@PaddyTheLilGuy That's the point, my dude. There's 3 dead levels now for the rogue that just out and out suck. Feels bad when other classes are getting so much more and WOTC got so lazy with the rogue like they do all the time.
@@PaddyTheLilGuy so basically they added nothing to the rogue then, unless I am correct and they took away cunning action and replaced it with cunning strike... in which case they made it inferior to the 2014 version.