11 years of Game Development and they have 0 players
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- Опубликовано: 17 сен 2024
- They're paying people to play this, and they're releasing skins. They have more skins in the cash shop than players in the game.
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#mmoprg #camelotunchained #2024
3 years of no players but continued updates? If this turns out to be a front/laundering, I'm not going to be shocked.
Not even launcering. The guy who made this game, Mark Jacobs, used the crowd funded money for Camelot Unchained to make it. He used the money people gave him, promised to make one thing and decided to make other thing no one asked for.
Money laundering operations need to make money though, hard to make money off of 0 players
@@JJJBunney001 Plot twist, all the money they're spending is on other front companies
@@JJJBunney001 If they make other games that make them money, they can use this one as a tax write-off.
@@JJJBunney001 Oh my God, somebody actually understands how money laundering works!
Welcome back friendos. RUclips tagged this as Camelot Unchained.
I had a brain fart and misread #camelotunchained as "camel toe pained"
@@First-Name_Last-Name thats what she said
Don't feel bad, I took some cold medicine and just woke up, and while still groggy, I read that as "cameltoe untouched"
I don't know, Kira.... an entire MMO with zero players? An entire world all to myself? I get to play out my "Cartman buys an amusement park" dreams. I think you may have sold me on the game, Kira. LOL
this is one of the examples of why you shouldn't start with making an mmo. worse is that they even wrote their own engine. it's not like even one of them is already an almost impossible task without a big team of highly skilled people.
$100 million minimum budget for a good PC MMORPG to begin with. Gonna need atleast 20-30 networking wizards just to figure out and optimize the netcode. Then youre gonna need a ton of content at launch to actually compete with other MMO's that have been out for years or even a decade at this point. New World had a budget like $300 million and it failed because there was little content and a ton of bugs and exploits.
How these morons think theyre gonna do this with something like $50k and 3 people in 2 years I have no clue. You arent gonna make a half-decent 8-bit roguelike with that budget unless youre all geniuses. MMORPG is by far the worst genre of game to make if youre looking for profit. 99.999% of them are failures.
@@rykehuss3435 mmos are singleplayer rpgs on hell mode.
one to two million are enough if you have the right team and you aren't reinventing the engines and net code.
way too many also try to create their inhouse everything "next gen" solutions at the same time.
mmo like Bitcraft show that you don't need that much money but at the same time they created one of the most promising database system that is hyper specialised towards games and their needed speed.
on a side note. you won't belive how many day one dev beginners go to discord server dev communities and have the dream to create a mmo and have no clue what so ever about how games, the internet and mmos work. no research done at all but high dreams that take way too long to be talked out of/moved to a smaller scale to make them learn the basics with pong or similar.
@@rykehuss3435 You are not wrong in any way but let me add another perspective as someone who has studied Unreal Engine for 15 years.
Considering the modular nature of expansive games, such as an MMO, the general nature of UE moved towards the most modular nature it could with UE4's release. This was further expanded upon after 10 years of tech advancements, and investment in purchasing tech companies, with another giant leap with UE5 which included open world technology and lighting to the forefront of current game engine tech. Lyra was included to showcase the modular nature of games and it has since been enhanced with even more features which you can use as and when you want.
With this in mind, Lyra introduced a new paradigm in game development with what was learned from Fortnite's development cycles. So now if you code using best practice with the systems available, without deviating from the Epic required methods, you can save hundreds of thousands or millions of man hours over previous methods. I have personally setup multiplayer environments at scale with AWS and Unreal Engine, and it doesn't stop at "it just works" because of edge cases with the variety of games. But if you keep it basic and make the core features then you can tackle what is to come with confidence that you understand the framework completely. It also saves millions in development costs.
When all is said and done, small teams can flourish, but in my experience small teams have more of an issue than the actual development and it's tools, bugs and idiosyncracies. It's a project management and people management issue. The left hand barely knows what the right hand is doing. If you can master that communication and keep a true set of team members working for 2 to 3 years, you can do anything. But so much can go wrong.
@@rykehuss3435 "Tell me you have 0 idea what you're talking about without telling me you have 0 idea what you're talking about..." Most of that money is marketing and paying wages to the 500+ people they hired and marketing. It doesn't mean you need 500 people to make it work. Most of those people are usually dumbasses and placeholders, or some diversity hires (and there is usually like 30 developers and 350 marketing people) You have MMORGPS like Metin2 for example made in 2004/5 by a small korean company and roughly 12 people and it's still huge today in some parts of the world (Turkey's National Game for example, they even have codes for it on coke cans). You say you need 20/30 wizards for networking? Are you actually insane... You need 1/2 good people that understand how networking and synchronization actually works. It's really not that difficult. It's been done before by many people. Game engines like Godot have sample projects with very good net code better than big MMORPGs like bdo for example. I get why you say that shit but it's completely wrong you're looking at this through a prism of over hyped games like New World or WoW or bunch of other shite. I can agree MMORPG is the hardest game to make, but you can make it work with 5/6 smart people. Especially in 2024 where AI is getting so good and you can generate full sets of 3d models with a click of a button. You can generate netcode structure and then just scale it... Stop measuring people by some shitty standards that New World put out.
If you want to make a classic styled MMO, you do basically need to make your own engine or you'd have to at least do a pretty serious rewrite of all the networking/server functions that come with. Trying to make one in one of the popular engines is a fools errand.
Granted, that's why you shouldn't make an MMO lol.
This game the equivalent of streaming to no viewers but trying to still communicate just to get the reps in
Basically the development equivalent of DarkSydePhil.
Continuous output yet always been shit but manage still to get dminishing returns.
What do reps mean in that context? I don't watch streams so that's new to me.
@@bloodlustshiva1 Its exactly what it sounds, reps so you will be good when it times to actually talk to an audience
@@satiricalzero That doesn't explain what a rep it... I assume that a rep is a practice take before going live?
@@bloodlustshiva1 Pretty much. Basically the equivalent of talking into a mirror to practice a speech.
The amount of views on this video
+
The dev team
=
The amount of people that know this game exists.
I asked my daughter who is in some nerd AP math.. and she said this checks out.
11 years for this "player count". Someone investigate them for money laundering
Did Caspian ever get the Fog of War to work?
lmao
Lol I forgot about that
He's still working on it.
let him cook rofl
Never heard of this game.
This is the common denominator, I'm a gamer and have never heard of it. The days of the big game conferences are over, if you cant market your own shit and it has no hook then you lose.
Neither have i.
I received no memos, telegrams or smoke signals about this game either.
Same fr
I've still not heard of this game despite watching the video...
The year of flops continues
Failures are not new.
Maybe in this genre..
This game flopped years ago and somehow is still going.
@@EarthboundX eternal flop
Cursed year for entertainment
You know, if I were an embattled game developer, about to release a game no-one asked for instead of the game that my fed up kick-starters had been waiting years to play...
I think I'd call it something other than "Final Stand: Ragnarok"...
Oh is that what happened? He took Kickstarter money and instead of supplying that game made something else? This true? What was the name of the original project?
Camelot unchained- it was supposed to be a spiritual successor to the mmo he helped make when working at Mythic (Dark Age of Camelot).
You can't see the players because they're in the Multiverse. The devs know something we don't if they are adding a cash shop lol.
The Camelot Unchained saga continues
They should change the title to Camelot Unreleased at this point
Finally, a game I can be best in the world in
I don't think they ever intended to make a game, or profit off of this... I think they just wanted to create vapor jobs, and one all the investment money gets consumed from paying employees they're going to say "oops I guess our project was a failure", then they close shop, and maybe perhaps they will start another project under a different company name...
The whole point of the thing was the guy who was in charge of the whole thing, he gets CEO pay for nearly a decade and has enough money to retire now. He's going to care less that people hate his guts while he's sitting in his yacht drinking champagne for the remainder of his life
that's weird, so tax frauds and where is he getting all this money for the game?
Camelot will not be unchained, 11 years of development led to nothing
It will be unchained, just before its dead body is thrown down the charnel pit.
2025 we will see. Maybe. ^^'
But why wouldn't they unchain Camelot? No need to keep a corpse chained up if there's no necromancer around. 😅
no one makes art anymore, especially not groundbreaking art. Everyone wants to be Nintendo with their sycophant cash grab business model
Kira where are the background meows?
He moved to another country so I guess the cats had to stay behind. Moving pets across borders is very expensive.
Cats didn't stay behind, they're asleep in the kitchen downstairs, I'd never leave my animals in another country even if it's expensive :)
@@kirareacts a true man, love ya
They got eaten by Haitians
They took "stop killing games" actually VERY VERY seriously.
"You can't say something to generate good will and then not do it"
Caspian is licking himself right now!
Working on history of kickstarter mmos? Amazing, I crave some throwback to dreamworld saga and Caspian stuff, it's been too long
This is like forshadwing Ashes of Creation future.
I dig that triangle lighting dude. The content as well. ✊🏻
ive never quite understood "investing in the engine" because most companies these days are either using Unity or Unreal. Bespoke engines are kind of a thing of the past no? I'm just curious to know who is looking to license the engine from this game that is still in development when there are oodles of Unity & Unreal tutorials, documentations, & assets in 2024? I could be wrong but this is my first thought
Perfectly reasonable concern. There being about 10 acknowledged quality game engines each with free option across the world, it does NOT make sense to make physics engines for anything other than having it do a single thing or two well and not be applicable to anything else due to small scope of the game purely in order to make the file size of this game as small as possible, no more than a few MBs, (say, typical mobile java games from dozen years ago) or make it look or do something cool at minimal performance expense. Or off-the-shelf level-editor for players. Nowadays, literally nobody does it for en-masse deliverance with tech in devices bulking up for gaming and easily cope with oversighted inefficiencies made by indie devs. As long as it's not a memory leak. Own engines may seem like the flex of the past that was done maybe up to 2012-2014 before tiny indies made with unity suddenly took off on YT etc...
Nowadays you only make your own engine for yourself, because you want specific features and no fluff. But the idea of making an engine to sell to others nowadays is basically non-existant.
Business create their own engine because popular game engine sometimes demand high royalty
Almost every game using Unreal is one of the many reasons for gaming being in such bad shape.
@@AnonymousAnonposter How exactly would that be the fault of the engine?
I gave camelot unchained like 50$ a long long time ago I basically had forgotten it ever existed.
People see right thru it when streamers push games. We all know theyre essentially just long advertisements and a way for the streamers to fund their lifestyle. The gaming community is very intelligent. they can see thru Bullshit very easily.
I think streamers can market games very well.. but the catch is, that marketing in general only really works if the product you're selling is actually any good (and that goes for basically all forms of marketing not just streamers.. well, unless you're trying to market an unfinished product in which case it's a bit easier to dupe people). It's usually very obvious when a game is bad, and even the players that do try it will bounce off quickly when they try actually playing it (and it's also exacerbated by having a low player count already, so even the rare person that does like it will quit once they realize nobody else is playing in multiplayer games).
Depends on the game. Raid Shadow Legends focused entirely on getting streamers and youtubers to shill their game and became a meme for it. That game is also generic and boring as fuck too, but it worked. That's why they do it.
How dare you assume those 4 players arent having fun! Dont shame them! They are a healthy, diversed and happy community!
There’s so much recreated effort in gaming. I think Unreal Engine is helping to move away from that. The Black Myth: Wukong developers didn’t have to spend a lot of effort recreating the wheel by using the game engine already available and instead put the effort into amazing environments and characters. It would be awesome if they also made their 3d assets available for others to use.
These guys JACKED their fans to build an engine. Lmfao.
to be honest, my dream is releasing a game. but... like a hobby. i know it would be niche, and i would release it for free anyway. releasing a successful comercial game nowadays implies making something i wouldn't have fun making or be proud of releasing.
If you clearly made a game out of passion and it shows you would certainly build up a fanbase over time, then one day when you've honed your skills and have a vision for a good game you could sell it to them. Many of the big name devs got started this way. These venture capitalists who think it's just easy money have no business making games at all, and they will learn nothing from this failure either.
so how does it still get maintained but cant be generating enough money to pay ppl to keep it updated? Hows that possible and why? Sounds.....strange
For every story like this I become even more certain that a giant reason for long development time and run away costs is poor managment.
This is an example, but for some reason I feel like the same can be said for AAA and AAAA games.
A game that got it's starter funding from Kickstarter recently ( not an mmo) The Wayworld Realms is a game you might want to keep tabs on .
You keep mentioning the engine being the focus which is all well and good... but who's going to use it? I mean, if the devs behind it take more than a decade just to build the thing, then how can any game developer have confidence that bug fixes and updates will come in a timely fashion after it's release? How many revisions have we seen to Unreal and other game engines in the time it's taken for this crew to make almost no progress with theirs? If I were a game developer I'd steer well clear of this engine for my games.
in my mind? no one. in investor's minds? everyone
There's 1 whole player online right now
"City of Titans" is a crowdfund MMO that still seems to go strong in development.
Is that based on City of Heroes?
@@Vespyr_ It was started as a spiritual successor after CoH was canned. Even though CoH is back I think they gonna see it through.
It does have a standalone launcher which you can play it through (still no players on there either).
This game was also in the "Future Games Show: Spring Showcase 2024" and even that didn't have any impact.
11 years in the making, 0 players
🤔YEP! The math checks out!
I was literally going to ask "has a single kickstarter mmo succeeded?" And the fact Kira is doing an entire video on it, makes me very hard.
Albion? or isn't it. Not sure.
@@gokenji1194 was Albion a crowdfunded MMO?!
albion had crowdfunding, but wasn't ever on kickstarter.
At first I thought, surely there must be an alternate launcher but nope, the website immediately points you to steam. Yikes.
There is an alternative launcher but last time I tried I never got any matchmaking so I think it's safe to assume 0 players on there too.
They were just following an industry leader's standard, if sony released a game with 8 years of development only for it to have 20 players, they can also do it
But how could they know that paying a streamer wouldn’t work to attract players? They made the investment, and it didn’t pay off.
I work full-time as a developer to make a living and pursue indie development whenever I can, dreaming that one day I could make a living from creating the games I love.
I'm just sharing my experience here: I have one published game and another one releasing in the next few months. It’s harder to get a game noticed, picked up randomly by an algorithm, and seen in the crowded gaming market than it is to actually make the game itself.
We’re in a market where being promoted by a well-known RUclipsr or streamer is almost the only viable option to gain visibility.
Albion Online was a kickstarter MMO that came out
Hearing about Camelot Unchained not coming to fruition really saddens me. DAoC got me through some dark times in my life and I think I'm going to use this video about FS:R as me abandoning all hope. Thanks, Kira, for the closure.
How do they have the money to keep working on a game almost no one is playing?
Trying to build a game engine with a few million is absurd..
Ashes of creation is going to be the only one that delivers an actual mmo
Ashes of Creation is going on route like star citizen. You cant become play tester without paying them, lots of money.
@Solus-qn3ur so wait for the release, like every other game.
For once, a pay-to-play game that doesn't involve crypto.
*yet
Marc Jacobs dropped the ball with Warhammer. Sold out to fucking EA. Gave him the benefit of the doubt, baught the 250 USD CU package, Seeing them continuesly working on a game nobody asked for: disappointing.
Kira, since you're working on a piece on all kickstarted MMOs you might want to look at Pantheon RotF which is also still in development, but doing better than CU (played it a few weeks ago and liked it), and Embers Adrift, which was originally funded on Indiegogo as Saga of Lucimia but later sold and rebranded. Embers Adrift is released and running.
Any and all mmo's would still be up open and have a somewhat good player count if they do 2 simple things. 1. good endgame content that evolves over time. 2. Fun in depth, fast paced combat. That's it. Black Desert has a terrible story, almost no dungeons and horrible end game content but because the combat is amazing and their life skills are good they have a large player base.
Star Citizen has a playable alpha and development is ongoing.
I don't think it'll ever be released, but it's not abandoned.
You know a project is a failure when Star Citizen looks good next to it.
Did they ever put any content in that game, or is it still just flying around in ships worth a lifes savings?
@@ekki1993 There was once a time when I thought that there would be no way SQ42 released before CU.
@@user-pc5qj2ix2cyou can do anything you want... As long as its combat. All the YT channel SC shills have begun to drop off covering it.
@@rwentfordable I tried it years ago on a free weekend, you could walk around some stations with beautiful but horribly optimized graphics and the worst animations I've ever seen, all the NPC's were T-posing, there were a few missions but all of them were unfinished, however there were 40.000$ ships to fly around in.
I imagine it's still the same then?
i just wanna point out i used to admin for a game with an active 20-30 player base at any time and the owners made an estimate of 1000-1500 usd a month. not much but still suprising
Still no sign of my CU refund. It's been 84 years...
The amount of text written in each update is insane
Would you like to invest millions into this game engine we've made...guaranteed to successfully NOT produce anything useful in over a decade.
AI auto run Free to Play, Pay to Win
I mean, you have to give them props for still trying though. They could probably just spend the energy making something new, but, at least they didn't abandon it? I don't know, but I don't have high hopes for the final outcome. Then again, I only know of this in passing interest now, like chronicles of elyria.
They're making something nobody asked for or wanted instead of the thing they were given money to actually make. I don't think they really deserve praise for that. That's like hiring someone to make your wedding cake and they instead show up with a few boxes of custard filled donuts. They might be the best donuts ever, but it's not what you were putting your money into.
can't abandon something that wasn't received by anyone
Kira. are the cats still destroying everything? Haven't seen (or rather heard them) in recent videos.
Love learning about nameless toilet fires, only from Kira. 😻
The steam update information for this game is more detailed and better written than Dragon's Dogma 2 who just copy pastes the same update title and just writes some generic crap in the bullet points.
It's quite amazing.
Other than playing LOTR:O as a solo experience, DAOC was by far my favourite MMO and the only one I ever felt was worth my time.
3 years of no reviews is wild. dec 21 to mar 24 and not a single one
It's okay, they'll just release a new game to pay for making this game profitable that will pay for that game to become profitable so you can finally watch them finish developing the actual game only eleven plus years late.
You should do a deep dive into WWII Online / Battleground Europe. MMO circa 2001.
What's wrong with that game? I remember playing it years ago and it was really fun. The graphics are of course completely outdated now and I have no idea why it's still going.
Whats crazy is the amount of content creators who have accepted sponsors for this title even though its veryyyyyyyyyy questionable...
I feel like this is the perfect example of some devs who think "if you make a decent game they will come" which in reality just often isn't the case. You have to advertise, at least to some extent
3:20 lmao why do all the ladies faces look like they want to call the manager?
History of kickstarter MMOs? Must be my birthday
Beta servers haven't been online for ages at this point. Originally they said it would at least be up 24/3 being Friday/Saturday/Sunday and that never happened.
I want an episode of Keeping up with the Caspian
Oh wow, you look different :o Any chance you might talk about Wayfinder and Relic Hunters Legend converting from always-online live service games to single-player offline with optional co-op? Wayfinder made the switch a few months back, but RHL just announced that they'll be doing the same. Both games were dropped by their respective publishers (Digital Extremes and Gearbox), which left them with a choice: either shut down the game and cease development or convert it so it can still be played and reach 1.0. They're not at all big games and I bet very few people heard of them, but this is an important story considering how often live service games get shut down and cease to exist entirely.
Corcond: look guys someone worse than us!
It's wild how people let Camelot unchained get away with scamming people for over a decade but completely crap all over star citizen. I refer to both games and studios as dumb and dumber because you'd have to be an idiot to support either at this point 😂
Bruh cant wait for the kickstarter mmo video!
This company is a scam. They still have posted refunds for new backers but refunds are 4 years behind. Thanks for bringing more attention needed to this scam. They are just trying to sell the engine to crypto bros etc.
I smell bleach and detergent, and hear a washing machine running on highest setting here. I wonder why...
I cannot understand why a small development studio which is behind time with the development of its game does waste time with developing a second game concurrently? 🤔☹
I supported Camelot Unchained because I believed in Jacobs after DAoC + Warhammer. I have no faith that Unchained is ever going to release, (and even if it does it's window is LONNNNG CLOSED at this point - it needed to release like 5-6 years ago and build upon that release instead of being a perpetual canned fart like it has been). It's disappointing as a once fan of those styles of games but it is what it is.
13:40 Ashes of Creation looking solid tho.
4:17 who are you speaking to. That made me shoot out my mountain dew baja blast
These kickstarter MMO's are one of the saddest and most pathetic things in gaming.
I just feel bad for 'em and the people who played or, even worse, invested in them. The desperation they exude peels off like stink fumes.
Man, some devs are completely disconnected from reality.
I am wondering if this video will serve as the publicity the game needed and now slowly turns to one of the best games ever made.
Have they tried approaching publishers? If they did and no one was keen, then they should have shelved the project and go back to the drawing board. Without the help of publishers, it is going to take one hell of a game to get noticed.
there aren't waves of kickstarter MMOs because they all went to NFT funded MMOs
Such a tragedy because DAoC was great. I was hoping this game would materialize.
I hope management lies to the devs and tells them the game is super popular. This would be so demoralizing to work on for so long
Too bad for MJ that the NFT and Crypto gaming died, as they are the only ones that would still believe in his game.
Guess it is not only SBI getting this treatment huh ...
I mean, why not add a cash shop? You're certainly not going to get less money than the $0 you're currently making.
one would think that any one of the numerous disasterous decisions and events in the dev timeline would act as big wakeup calls to refocus on the minimum viable product that was promised for Camelot Unchained , to create something in the legacy of DaoC . however it never happened , they never got the wakeup call . the funding of these closed source projects are a black hole , undeserving of the support because when they fail everything they made so far is destroyed , we must support open source transparent developments rather then continue to see mismanagement destroy what work the artists and devs have made .
For a second I thought chronicles of elyria had released
Why it took 11 years? change of code, upgrading OS, it cost game devs more money....
Added cash shop just in case one day it will be popular
Me updating my side projects hoping it'll give me cred on my resume someday
I forgot about this completely until I saw the boring gameplay again.
One thing they should learn from big companies, is when to take an L.
Like, why do they sustain a literal dead game...
So apart from all the large publishers like Ubisoft, Sony etc. that all want to push the "next big live-service" game, there is also a fuck-ton of indies who think they can create "the next big MMO"... when will it become obvious to all of them that this market is completely over-saturated already?
Video games the only damn market people put a magnifying glass over 20-60 dollar purchases its crazy lmao