None of the ladies' quad lutzes (and also a lot of the mens') really blow me away. Everything just seems rushed to get points, but not a single lady has got the rotation and the Judges still credit them for it.
Exactly!! It's not just Alysa at all!! It's a much bigger problem. I hate the direction the sport has gone in in general and if anything Alysa is just a victim of that.
@mish098aimer her air position and landing are nice but man, she's not even pretending to pick in that jump. There's a visible-in-real time 3/4 prerotation most of the time that gives it a really...idk, soft? like, mushy weird quality to the take off imo. She looks great in the air, though.
I noticed that too... Alysa's quad Lutz had the toe pick land 1/4 rotation early. That's not a full four rotations and they called it "clean." What happened to artistry?
I was disappointed as well when Ted Barton said while her slow motion of 4 lutz was played - ' landed all the way round'. I knew immediately that her lutz was cleary under-rotated and her excessive pre-rotation was well-known like all Eteri girls. The more disappointing thing was when Ted picked up very slight under-rotation from other girls and commented about that. I liked his calm and neutral way of commentating during Junior Grand Prix, but this time I was a little upset. The worst one was when Jonny Weir said 'text book' to Medvedeva's slow motion jumps, I went speechless..
Having an American do well will bring in more viewership, which is good for the sport and indirectly for judges' paychecks. But they should be aware that one of the consequences for overscoring Alysa is that much of the dislike or hate will go to her, not the judges, because she is in the spotlights and the judges are not. And it's even unnecessary to overscore her so much. Had they given her two marks for underrotation and a bit more appropriate PCS she would have scored in the low 190's overall. She would have still won, and people wouldn't have complained as much about unfairness.
She is no more overscorred than the pre-rotating Eteri girls who take off their Lutz's from the full blade and do almost a full rotation with their full blade down before take off. So many girls are doing Loops with intense pre-rotation and getting them credited as Lutz's it's ridiculous. The sport and it's judging of pre-rotated jumps is already in shambles and no one cared when the Russian girls did it, now an American is doing the same thing as them and it's bad? Skating fans are so inconsistent it's mind boggling.
I’d been curious why these young ladies can do the quads easily (and why always the Lutz!) while those senior men cannot. Now I know the reason, the judges dont care if they did it right, it LOOKS nice, so positive GOE! 😐 Aww I really hate the feeling that I am a hater! 😩
It's actually the same thing in men's quads history: first 4Lz in 2011 and 4L and 4F in 2016. And skaters say that the most difficult quad is 4loop, despite it's only in 3rd position from general jump's difficulty
@@leylasobirova9210 Sure, more skaters can do 4Lz than 4Lo, and some skaters can do quad jumps but their 3A really suck ;___; 4Lz is difficult without a doubt, but it's also easy to cheat.
D Cecilia Yep... I think 4Lz would be more difficult than 4Lo only if it was executed correctly. For example Yuzuru's zero prerotation-delayed rotation-crazy height and length -lutz is surely extremely difficult. I think most of the "quad lutzes" we see nowadays should be actually judged as triples. At least Alysa's jump wasn't a flutz, but it was far from being a quad.
Great observation. It is strange that the ladies all seem to be doing the 4Lz all of a sudden without first mastering either the 4T or 4S, the most basic quads. You're right: the truth is they all have too much pre-rotation. I think the 4S, 4Lo and 3A are the most difficult jumps in terms of being able to cheat them; it's hard to cheat a 4S, 4Lo and 3A. P.s. By cheat, I mean cheat the rotation, not flat out saying the skater cheated. It is fully the judging and technical panel's responsibility to spot these things.
@@WeLoveSkating1 I have watched them both a few times and what i see is two very good skaters each with different technical strengths, but both excellent overall, not 'another level'. That's baloney. Artistically and as a performer I prefer Alyssa, but I agree that's a subjective thing. Also it doesn't elude me that some of Kamila's so called skills are not really skills but rather just natural physical attributes, like her hyper flexibility. To me that's just a tool and doesn't in itself excite me at all. Unfortunately the choreographers have not used it well either. More like they abused it.
I agree with everything you say here but what I found even more egregious was Alysa getting higher PCS than Anastasia. Alysa's skating has improved immensely since US Nats but her PCS should have been lower than Anastasia and arguably Soyeon too.
Thanks a lot for your comments in the video. I can't understand how some so-called fans can hate a now 14 years old who has zero responsibility in the scores she's getting.
I don't think anyone hates a 14 years old girl who tries her best but the judges. Saying her's not a quad but triple or that it was a cheeted jump (which is a term not meaning she is cheater but wrong technique) is hate if you mean that, other than that i haven't seen any
Wow. Very good point. I have noticed that some fans criticize Alysa but praises Kamila for the same issues. I like them both. But Alysa is even more impressive.
It seems to me Alyssa has improved since the US nationals so I hope she will keep improving her jumps. She looks so happy to jump she's a pleasure to watch.
I LIKE BOTH¡¡¡ but Valievas level of skating and PCS is not even closer to Alysas... in a perfect world with perfec skates Valievas SP 73-74 FP 147-148 Alysas SP 69-70 (dont forget she cant do 3A in sp) FP 150-151 (for the TES) VERY CLOSED BUT VALIEVAS QUALITY HAS TO WIN.... at the end, this is good for the sport, not only Russian skaters, USA, JAPAN, KOREA, i like more competitive nations¡¡
I’m so glad that you made this. When the commentators said that this jump was clean. I was speechless. They are just lying to get her in the Russian discussion .....it’s sad. It was cheated both times and they just lied ....
The figure skating cold war it's going to be insane. USFA VS Russian Federation. Who wins? All joke's aside. I think most people have been (rightfully) criticising Alysa's 4Ltz because it's barely even a quad. Even if you want to turn a blind eye to pre-rotation, it was mildly UR as well. It is only natural to react with indifference or frustration when priviliged skaters (because of the country they are born in) get gifts like this while others get dinged for less. It's expected that this will create animosity between fans towards said skater. Even then, at most I've seen people drag her cause of her jumping technique and not anything else. That's not hate, that's just the way things are.
judges have been giving full marks on this type of quad lutz since last year; its not unique to Liu. But yeah, they are not consistent with their criteria at all and do seem to just do what they want, so you have a point... No judge in their right mind could score Liu over Valieva, though; the difference in quality on all the elements is clear to even the untrained, naked eye.
Nop, kamila has quad too and higher artistry. I think Thé judges will change full rotated criteria at big events in which both kamila and alysa compete. And alysa will take < on her big jumps.
I used to have a problem with pre rotating my single axel too much, and in my opinion to fix this I could have either trained myself to land it that way, or work on fixing the entry. Obviously a single axel is much easier to fix than a 3A or a 4Lz. But what I found while I had the problem was that it was much more difficult to land a pre rotated axel clean than it was to cleanly land an axel with a cleaner take off. That being said, Alysa's 4Lz was clearly under rotated. I do think she can improve the take off over time though.
So nice to read your reply and your personal experience in the ice. I haven't heard anyone say that a clean take off equates to completed rotations and clean landings. I'm not a skater but I understand the physics: It is far easier to increase rotational velocity after take off and while in the air. Skaters pre-rotate ON the ice in a effort to start rotations as early as possible, but blade contact with the ice slows down the acceleration into the spins. The best Lutz jumps I've seen show a clear vault upward into the air first, facing front, then fast rotation in the air and clean landing. At 1:23, Alysa is seen to be striking the ice to her right rather than behind her left blade, improper technique (according to ISU instruction videos) that suggests the skater is starting the rotations while still on the ice. I agree with you: Alysa can improve her take off with training. She's so young! Her triple Lutz actually has a great take off, don't you think? Again, nice post.
I think despite the 180 pre, and the UR, it's still much better then Trusovas and Sherbakovas simply because it's actually a lutz and has a clear outside edge. However her height isn't as good as those ladies. I think Valieva will beat her because her PCS is better and even if her quad is a lower point quad, its higher, longer, looks more spectacular. That is if Kamilia can skate clean, she seems to have nervous issues, though that may improve over the season.
The reason why Valieva may not be able to beat her is because Alysa is cool as can be. She just don't get nervous. And the Alysa's level of difficulty is massive. When you can do 2 triple axels vs. 2 double axels, you are talking about a 12 point difference right there...
@@annettefallon1652 Well I hope we are. Here's an analysis of Anna and Sasha's 4Ltz attempt at nationals. Please watch it and save us from having to explain. ruclips.net/video/ORCBA59RUis/видео.html
When I saw her perform the jump, I thought “well there’s no way they won’t downgrade that to a 3lutz”. Then they kept it as a quad. Even in the replay they aired, it’s a very clear under rotation. That being said, this girl has guts and talent! We should not be disparaging her for an amazing effort. I mean, how many girls have gone out there and tried 3axels and fallen or been downgraded? This jump is no different in that way. Anyone who has ever competed in figure skating, or any judged sport, we know there is room for error. Often the judges will grade certain people more harshly than others. It’s facts. What I would like to see is choreography that feels less rushed, more extension throughout her performance, more connection to her music and her 3axel needs a lot of technical work on that take off. I am very excited to see her progress.
About prerotation on her gp debut : we always see even more prerotations in Russian ladies jumps. And for a quad it is almost totally acceptable . But yeah it is definitely underrotated at Thé same time. Actually yuna kim ' s second solo triple lutz at 2014 sochi free program was also underrotated but the judges credited it as full- rotated and awarded with +goe . In some competitions the judges are so generous in not only giving +goe but also in credit rotations. But Wè see the truth. I credit this attempt as 4Lz < but at Thé same time +2 goe. To me logically the judges must give +goe to this type of underrotated jumps. It has some good qualities and not shaky or hand down.
Good skater! All the best to her. I would have to concur that it is under-rotated. Perhaps with some muscle growth she can get more height and revolutions in. :D Much better SS and PC here than US Nationals. Promising young talent!
If Alysa equips her program with all the 3 axles, she could beat kamila valieva even without a quad. On a side note, I'm pretty sure all the hates she receives are coming form the Russians.
You are exactly right. She gets an enormous amount of hate for a 14 year old girl. And many of the top skaters praise her. You would think renowned skaters are more knowledgeable than couch potato, lol.
Omg yes Russians were so triggered that American commentators were praising her in Aurora games. All they do is compare Kamila and Alyssa, bring Alyssa down and raise the other
@@gunaymuradova4633 Yes, they say ridiculously mean and untrue things about Alysa, trying to create the impression that she's NOTHING, just some wannabe and nothing more. Which of course would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad and ridiculous.
I get it people are excited and want to give credit to the skaters who are brave enough to try quads but really think about the ones with fully rotated clean triples get much less points for the same number of rotations. Its just so unfair in my book. Even more so for the ones who can do "actual" quads
I think its funny how people giving constructive criticism about her scores and her skating are labelled "haters" by team usa stans, when it has nothing to do with alysa as a person herself.
specially if you think that those same team usa stans are very eager to criticize the russian ladies doing quads/axels when they have very similar problems to liu (bu they then overlook liu's problems and call anyone who points them out a hater)
Valieva has better skating skills but her jumps are getting worse since she moved with eteri. Her quad toe is almost technically good, but i dont know why her triples now has almost 3/4 prerotations. Alysa also prerotates a lot, sometimes 3/4 prerotation too, some of her triples are small with an unsteady or shaky landing and her skating skills cant compare to valieva's now. Sincerly, i prefer tomoe kawabata or ksenia sinitsaya, both of them have great technique and good skating skills, not as good as valieva, but pretty solid too.
But this is SO nothing new over the past few years. Some people are talking like Alysa is the first in history to have had a peroration or under rotation overlooked. Over the past years practically all the winners have had perorations and under rotations overlooked even on triples(!!). It has been an ongoing discussion for so long. So why are we even talking about them now that Alysa has done a quad. Understandable that now the Russians' positions is slightly threatened and the have been a powerful force and influence in the skating world and they are now, completely predictably, making a big stink about this topic in regards to the first American to dare try to approach that level. Is this surprising? I think that maybe partly why the judges were perfectly comfortable in giving Alysa the green light here. They KNOW what goes on, so why would Alysa be the scape goat penalized for it? As far as the whole ridiculous push to do more and more rotations in general, now that is a completely different subject, and i completely hate the direction the sport has gone in. The programs have become so much more cookie cutter, there have been ugly elements introduced that everybody and their mother does even when they can't do them nicely. BTW Alysa actually did one of the best jobs out there with one of them - the beilman. What a horrendously ugly element - grabbing the sharp metal blade with your bare hands. Looks so ugly and brutal! Plus very few are able to smoothly lift that leg without a break in the motion. Example Zagitova - every time i saw her do it i cringed with the thought - why... is she even trying. It does not look good and shows a hint of struggle. So there we have it. Alysa's fine with it (though i still hate the element by definition). Another trick they have latched onto - now that there have been a couple hyper flexible girls that have come onto the scene, anyone who has not even only good but even very good flexibility, like Alysa, is suddenly being labeled as 'not flexible at all' or having 'terrible flexibility', 'no flexibility at all'. So watch out for that one too! All said and done I'm very glad they've given Alysa the benefit of the doubt for her specific unique technical effort. Personal i also want to reward her attitude, which is superbly mature and sophisticated for her age. Namely she is honest with herself and realistic, down to earth and lacks arrogance. She is a living example of how success should be handled by a kid her age. She did get 4 full turns around after all, and with more height, which is something she said she will work on, they will be fully in the air. She is in an excellent position for that to happen.
Don't be haters we all know that kamila was just caming back from an injury 3 weeks before the event, so she didn't do her big jumps, but we all now that she has better flexibility, performance, and artistry.
Her 4lz is pretty much the same as the Russians. Maybe they squeak in just past 3/4 on the landing but they also pre-rotate the jump. Alysa has a deeper outside edge. With practice, I think her jump can improve. When she is a senior, she will have the potential of doing 3 triple axels (short and long programs) and a quad. That definitely puts her in the mix for the podium if not the gold medal at Worlds and the Olympics. Of course, we need to see how she develops and if she avoids injury.
I actually have a video on Trusova's quad Lutz, the exact same jump shown here. The technique is quite similar. Check it out: ruclips.net/video/ORCBA59RUis/видео.html
September 2019 and December 2019.....even Liu need work hard in her technique, jumps (triples and quads) need quality, high, stronger, entry, etc. New coach and a lot of work is the best option.
First of all I would definitely call it, she completed a full rotation on the ice, after her blade has touched the ice, that's clearly underrotated if not downgraded in my book. And having said that -2, I think, but clearly not that ridiculousness she's received from the judges, I think initially it was plus 3,5 and then it went down a bit.
I think underrotations are judged too harshly. Skaters are double-penalized... The base value is lowered plus the negative GOE. I think that is really unfair. Skaters should be rewarded for pushing the envelope. However, PCS factors should be adjusted upward because what Carolina Kostner does is as important as what Alyssa Liu does. 30-year old skaters should be as relevant as 13-year old skaters.
The only skater who rarely under rotate 4L is Nathan. We know that because Johnny is obsessed with his quads and always play them in slow motion. I don't think I've ever seen a female fully rotating a quad.
she's like the female vincent zhou and her american citizenship will give her isu privilege of inflated pcs and ignored UR calls. It shouldnt be called a quad lutz more like a 3 and a quarter lutz.
She shouldn't be allowed to compete again until she stops cheating. Her "quads" get 2-2.5 rotations in the air maximum. Her technique is GARBAGE and I hope she retires soon.
Rules: **exist**
Judges: I am about to end this man's whole career
The majority of the ladies quads aren't even real quads. They're Floopz.
At least Alysa has an outside edge :/
None of the ladies' quad lutzes (and also a lot of the mens') really blow me away. Everything just seems rushed to get points, but not a single lady has got the rotation and the Judges still credit them for it.
Exactly!! It's not just Alysa at all!! It's a much bigger problem. I hate the direction the sport has gone in in general and if anything Alysa is just a victim of that.
@mish098aimer her air position and landing are nice but man, she's not even pretending to pick in that jump. There's a visible-in-real time 3/4 prerotation most of the time that gives it a really...idk, soft? like, mushy weird quality to the take off imo. She looks great in the air, though.
I noticed that too... Alysa's quad Lutz had the toe pick land 1/4 rotation early. That's not a full four rotations and they called it "clean." What happened to artistry?
I was disappointed as well when Ted Barton said while her slow motion of 4 lutz was played - ' landed all the way round'.
I knew immediately that her lutz was cleary under-rotated and her excessive pre-rotation was well-known like all Eteri girls.
The more disappointing thing was when Ted picked up very slight under-rotation from other girls and commented about that. I liked his calm and neutral way of commentating during Junior Grand Prix, but this time I was a little upset. The worst one was when Jonny Weir said 'text book' to Medvedeva's slow motion jumps, I went speechless..
She is very good at not falling on her UR jumps. The people who train her really understand what the judges are looking (or not looking) at.
Having an American do well will bring in more viewership, which is good for the sport and indirectly for judges' paychecks. But they should be aware that one of the consequences for overscoring Alysa is that much of the dislike or hate will go to her, not the judges, because she is in the spotlights and the judges are not. And it's even unnecessary to overscore her so much. Had they given her two marks for underrotation and a bit more appropriate PCS she would have scored in the low 190's overall. She would have still won, and people wouldn't have complained as much about unfairness.
She is no more overscorred than the pre-rotating Eteri girls who take off their Lutz's from the full blade and do almost a full rotation with their full blade down before take off. So many girls are doing Loops with intense pre-rotation and getting them credited as Lutz's it's ridiculous. The sport and it's judging of pre-rotated jumps is already in shambles and no one cared when the Russian girls did it, now an American is doing the same thing as them and it's bad? Skating fans are so inconsistent it's mind boggling.
I’d been curious why these young ladies can do the quads easily (and why always the Lutz!) while those senior men cannot. Now I know the reason, the judges dont care if they did it right, it LOOKS nice, so positive GOE! 😐 Aww I really hate the feeling that I am a hater! 😩
It's actually the same thing in men's quads history: first 4Lz in 2011 and 4L and 4F in 2016. And skaters say that the most difficult quad is 4loop, despite it's only in 3rd position from general jump's difficulty
@@leylasobirova9210 Sure, more skaters can do 4Lz than 4Lo, and some skaters can do quad jumps but their 3A really suck ;___; 4Lz is difficult without a doubt, but it's also easy to cheat.
D Cecilia Yep... I think 4Lz would be more difficult than 4Lo only if it was executed correctly. For example Yuzuru's zero prerotation-delayed rotation-crazy height and length -lutz is surely extremely difficult. I think most of the "quad lutzes" we see nowadays should be actually judged as triples. At least Alysa's jump wasn't a flutz, but it was far from being a quad.
S0Me0Ne Yes, Alysa’s one was like a 3Lz with forward take-off, or an unusual-entry 3A?😅
Great observation. It is strange that the ladies all seem to be doing the 4Lz all of a sudden without first mastering either the 4T or 4S, the most basic quads. You're right: the truth is they all have too much pre-rotation.
I think the 4S, 4Lo and 3A are the most difficult jumps in terms of being able to cheat them; it's hard to cheat a 4S, 4Lo and 3A.
P.s. By cheat, I mean cheat the rotation, not flat out saying the skater cheated. It is fully the judging and technical panel's responsibility to spot these things.
Kamila don't have Triple Axel but her pcs is in another level.
Please.. their scores were very close. Not 'another level'. Why do people just make stuff up.
comment if you can’t see the difference on the components between Kamila and Alysa you should watch their programs again ...
@@WeLoveSkating1 I have watched them both a few times and what i see is two very good skaters each with different technical strengths, but both excellent overall, not 'another level'. That's baloney. Artistically and as a performer I prefer Alyssa, but I agree that's a subjective thing. Also it doesn't elude me that some of Kamila's so called skills are not really skills but rather just natural physical attributes, like her hyper flexibility. To me that's just a tool and doesn't in itself excite me at all. Unfortunately the choreographers have not used it well either. More like they abused it.
you think the only problem is this? 4lz< ; 3a
I agree with everything you say here but what I found even more egregious was Alysa getting higher PCS than Anastasia. Alysa's skating has improved immensely since US Nats but her PCS should have been lower than Anastasia and arguably Soyeon too.
Thanks a lot for your comments in the video. I can't understand how some so-called fans can hate a now 14 years old who has zero responsibility in the scores she's getting.
I don't think anyone hates a 14 years old girl who tries her best but the judges. Saying her's not a quad but triple or that it was a cheeted jump (which is a term not meaning she is cheater but wrong technique) is hate if you mean that, other than that i haven't seen any
@@nieliangel Some people really sound like haters. Well, we cannot change them...
If both Alysa and Kamila perform their best at JFGP and... ISU judges don't consider pre or underrotated and wrong-edge, Alysa will win.
Wow. Very good point. I have noticed that some fans criticize Alysa but praises Kamila for the same issues.
I like them both. But Alysa is even more impressive.
That was not a 4lutz. It was under rotated.
It seems to me Alyssa has improved since the US nationals so I hope she will keep improving her jumps. She looks so happy to jump she's a pleasure to watch.
I LIKE BOTH¡¡¡ but Valievas level of skating and PCS is not even closer to Alysas... in a perfect world with perfec skates Valievas SP 73-74 FP 147-148 Alysas SP 69-70 (dont forget she cant do 3A in sp) FP 150-151 (for the TES) VERY CLOSED BUT VALIEVAS QUALITY HAS TO WIN.... at the end, this is good for the sport, not only Russian skaters, USA, JAPAN, KOREA, i like more competitive nations¡¡
I’m so glad that you made this. When the commentators said that this jump was clean. I was speechless. They are just lying to get her in the Russian discussion .....it’s sad. It was cheated both times and they just lied ....
The figure skating cold war it's going to be insane. USFA VS Russian Federation. Who wins?
All joke's aside. I think most people have been (rightfully) criticising Alysa's 4Ltz because it's barely even a quad. Even if you want to turn a blind eye to pre-rotation, it was mildly UR as well. It is only natural to react with indifference or frustration when priviliged skaters (because of the country they are born in) get gifts like this while others get dinged for less. It's expected that this will create animosity between fans towards said skater. Even then, at most I've seen people drag her cause of her jumping technique and not anything else. That's not hate, that's just the way things are.
I think that this shows that Alysa can beat Kamila because the judges just do what they want :(
judges have been giving full marks on this type of quad lutz since last year; its not unique to Liu. But yeah, they are not consistent with their criteria at all and do seem to just do what they want, so you have a point... No judge in their right mind could score Liu over Valieva, though; the difference in quality on all the elements is clear to even the untrained, naked eye.
Nop, kamila has quad too and higher artistry. I think Thé judges will change full rotated criteria at big events in which both kamila and alysa compete. And alysa will take < on her big jumps.
I used to have a problem with pre rotating my single axel too much, and in my opinion to fix this I could have either trained myself to land it that way, or work on fixing the entry. Obviously a single axel is much easier to fix than a 3A or a 4Lz. But what I found while I had the problem was that it was much more difficult to land a pre rotated axel clean than it was to cleanly land an axel with a cleaner take off. That being said, Alysa's 4Lz was clearly under rotated. I do think she can improve the take off over time though.
So nice to read your reply and your personal experience in the ice. I haven't heard anyone say that a clean take off equates to completed rotations and clean landings. I'm not a skater but I understand the physics: It is far easier to increase rotational velocity after take off and while in the air. Skaters pre-rotate ON the ice in a effort to start rotations as early as possible, but blade contact with the ice slows down the acceleration into the spins. The best Lutz jumps I've seen show a clear vault upward into the air first, facing front, then fast rotation in the air and clean landing. At 1:23, Alysa is seen to be striking the ice to her right rather than behind her left blade, improper technique (according to ISU instruction videos) that suggests the skater is starting the rotations while still on the ice. I agree with you: Alysa can improve her take off with training. She's so young! Her triple Lutz actually has a great take off, don't you think? Again, nice post.
I think despite the 180 pre, and the UR, it's still much better then Trusovas and Sherbakovas simply because it's actually a lutz and has a clear outside edge. However her height isn't as good as those ladies.
I think Valieva will beat her because her PCS is better and even if her quad is a lower point quad, its higher, longer, looks more spectacular. That is if Kamilia can skate clean, she seems to have nervous issues, though that may improve over the season.
The reason why Valieva may not be able to beat her is because Alysa is cool as can be. She just don't get nervous.
And the Alysa's level of difficulty is massive. When you can do 2 triple axels vs. 2 double axels, you are talking about a 12 point difference right there...
Have you watched all these ladies' lutz? Cause trusova also has clear outside edge and isn't UR.
Are you talking about the same Trusova?
excuse me gurllll, trusova has deep outside edge on her 4Lz
@@annettefallon1652 Well I hope we are. Here's an analysis of Anna and Sasha's 4Ltz attempt at nationals. Please watch it and save us from having to explain. ruclips.net/video/ORCBA59RUis/видео.html
Nice quad loop
When I saw her perform the jump, I thought “well there’s no way they won’t downgrade that to a 3lutz”. Then they kept it as a quad. Even in the replay they aired, it’s a very clear under rotation. That being said, this girl has guts and talent! We should not be disparaging her for an amazing effort. I mean, how many girls have gone out there and tried 3axels and fallen or been downgraded? This jump is no different in that way. Anyone who has ever competed in figure skating, or any judged sport, we know there is room for error. Often the judges will grade certain people more harshly than others. It’s facts. What I would like to see is choreography that feels less rushed, more extension throughout her performance, more connection to her music and her 3axel needs a lot of technical work on that take off. I am very excited to see her progress.
There's no way it can be seen as a downgrade. In real time, it looked rotated. A downgrade is a full 180 UR.
About prerotation on her gp debut : we always see even more prerotations in Russian ladies jumps. And for a quad it is almost totally acceptable . But yeah it is definitely underrotated at Thé same time. Actually yuna kim ' s second solo triple lutz at 2014 sochi free program was also underrotated but the judges credited it as full- rotated and awarded with +goe . In some competitions the judges are so generous in not only giving +goe but also in credit rotations. But Wè see the truth. I credit this attempt as 4Lz < but at Thé same time +2 goe. To me logically the judges must give +goe to this type of underrotated jumps. It has some good qualities and not shaky or hand down.
Agree 💯
preroated and underrotated...NOT a quad sorry
that's basically every women's quad unfortunately
@@sufferingtm6824 Sasha Trusova's 4T and 4F would like a word with you.
Good skater! All the best to her.
I would have to concur that it is under-rotated. Perhaps with some muscle growth she can get more height and revolutions in. :D Much better SS and PC here than US Nationals. Promising young talent!
If Alysa equips her program with all the 3 axles, she could beat kamila valieva even without a quad. On a side note, I'm pretty sure all the hates she receives are coming form the Russians.
You are exactly right. She gets an enormous amount of hate for a 14 year old girl.
And many of the top skaters praise her. You would think renowned skaters are more knowledgeable than couch potato, lol.
Pretty sure is less hate than the hate that russian girls receive from the americans Lol
Omg yes Russians were so triggered that American commentators were praising her in Aurora games. All they do is compare Kamila and Alyssa, bring Alyssa down and raise the other
@@moondim7 WHERE have you seen russian girls receiving hate like Alysa? Don't be ridiculous!
@@gunaymuradova4633 Yes, they say ridiculously mean and untrue things about Alysa, trying to create the impression that she's NOTHING, just some wannabe and nothing more. Which of course would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad and ridiculous.
I get it people are excited and want to give credit to the skaters who are brave enough to try quads but really think about the ones with fully rotated clean triples get much less points for the same number of rotations. Its just so unfair in my book. Even more so for the ones who can do "actual" quads
I think its funny how people giving constructive criticism about her scores and her skating are labelled "haters" by team usa stans, when it has nothing to do with alysa as a person herself.
specially if you think that those same team usa stans are very eager to criticize the russian ladies doing quads/axels when they have very similar problems to liu (bu they then overlook liu's problems and call anyone who points them out a hater)
Only if you do it repeated on everyone of her videos.
And those same people are the ones who hate on the russian girls! Hypocrisy where?!!
Valieva has better skating skills but her jumps are getting worse since she moved with eteri. Her quad toe is almost technically good, but i dont know why her triples now has almost 3/4 prerotations. Alysa also prerotates a lot, sometimes 3/4 prerotation too, some of her triples are small with an unsteady or shaky landing and her skating skills cant compare to valieva's now. Sincerly, i prefer tomoe kawabata or ksenia sinitsaya, both of them have great technique and good skating skills, not as good as valieva, but pretty solid too.
But this is SO nothing new over the past few years. Some people are talking like Alysa is the first in history to have had a peroration or under rotation overlooked. Over the past years practically all the winners have had perorations and under rotations overlooked even on triples(!!). It has been an ongoing discussion for so long. So why are we even talking about them now that Alysa has done a quad. Understandable that now the Russians' positions is slightly threatened and the have been a powerful force and influence in the skating world and they are now, completely predictably, making a big stink about this topic in regards to the first American to dare try to approach that level. Is this surprising? I think that maybe partly why the judges were perfectly comfortable in giving Alysa the green light here. They KNOW what goes on, so why would Alysa be the scape goat penalized for it?
As far as the whole ridiculous push to do more and more rotations in general, now that is a completely different subject, and i completely hate the direction the sport has gone in. The programs have become so much more cookie cutter, there have been ugly elements introduced that everybody and their mother does even when they can't do them nicely. BTW Alysa actually did one of the best jobs out there with one of them - the beilman. What a horrendously ugly element - grabbing the sharp metal blade with your bare hands. Looks so ugly and brutal! Plus very few are able to smoothly lift that leg without a break in the motion. Example Zagitova - every time i saw her do it i cringed with the thought - why... is she even trying. It does not look good and shows a hint of struggle. So there we have it. Alysa's fine with it (though i still hate the element by definition). Another trick they have latched onto - now that there have been a couple hyper flexible girls that have come onto the scene, anyone who has not even only good but even very good flexibility, like Alysa, is suddenly being labeled as 'not flexible at all' or having 'terrible flexibility', 'no flexibility at all'. So watch out for that one too! All said and done I'm very glad they've given Alysa the benefit of the doubt for her specific unique technical effort. Personal i also want to reward her attitude, which is superbly mature and sophisticated for her age. Namely she is honest with herself and realistic, down to earth and lacks arrogance. She is a living example of how success should be handled by a kid her age. She did get 4 full turns around after all, and with more height, which is something she said she will work on, they will be fully in the air. She is in an excellent position for that to happen.
not a 4lz
it’s cheated
Don't be haters we all know that kamila was just caming back from an injury 3 weeks before the event, so she didn't do her big jumps, but we all now that she has better flexibility, performance, and artistry.
Her 4lz is pretty much the same as the Russians. Maybe they squeak in just past 3/4 on the landing but they also pre-rotate the jump. Alysa has a deeper outside edge. With practice, I think her jump can improve. When she is a senior, she will have the potential of doing 3 triple axels (short and long programs) and a quad. That definitely puts her in the mix for the podium if not the gold medal at Worlds and the Olympics. Of course, we need to see how she develops and if she avoids injury.
Kamila’s quad toe is much better than Alysa’s
Need John Bolton and CNN to ratified her "clean" quad lutz.
Why didn't we pick on Trusovas quad toe? It was landed same as alysas
I actually have a video on Trusova's quad Lutz, the exact same jump shown here. The technique is quite similar. Check it out: ruclips.net/video/ORCBA59RUis/видео.html
September 2019 and December 2019.....even Liu need work hard in her technique, jumps (triples and quads) need quality, high, stronger, entry, etc.
New coach and a lot of work is the best option.
-3 at least, maybe -4
Poor take off, UR, scratchy landing
Let it be "0", but not +3 :(
Everyone talks about Alysa's lutz, but no one pays attention to Tursynbaeva's 1turn prerotated 4s at words.
Double standards?
H8hu9h
Uuih
First of all I would definitely call it, she completed a full rotation on the ice, after her blade has touched the ice, that's clearly underrotated if not downgraded in my book. And having said that -2, I think, but clearly not that ridiculousness she's received from the judges, I think initially it was plus 3,5 and then it went down a bit.
she is overrated
100%
I wish judges got their shit together 😒
I don't think Alysa can beat Kamila, well I hope not anyway
I really like her jumps.
Anyway, Kamila won the final~~~~~
Other women should fly like her
Because rules are equally imposed
Her lutz are amazing in any way
She should have been disqualified for cheating. That is NOT a quad, it's an underrotated triple at best
I think underrotations are judged too harshly. Skaters are double-penalized... The base value is lowered plus the negative GOE. I think that is really unfair.
Skaters should be rewarded for pushing the envelope.
However, PCS factors should be adjusted upward because what Carolina Kostner does is as important as what Alyssa Liu does. 30-year old skaters should be as relevant as 13-year old skaters.
Three and a half turns not 4, so its URed.
Just like trusova 😅😅😕😒
@@anthonynavarrete2691 yes just like trusova? your point?
The only skater who rarely under rotate 4L is Nathan. We know that because Johnny is obsessed with his quads and always play them in slow motion.
I don't think I've ever seen a female fully rotating a quad.
Joey Murphy my point is that everybody comes for Alysa like just shut up 😒 you’ve never seen trusova get this much backlash
Not necessarily you in this case I guess. But I’m talking about people in general
Breaking News current junior/Senior skaters under-rotate their Quads.
This was barely a triple let alone a quad
she's like the female vincent zhou and her american citizenship will give her isu privilege of inflated pcs and ignored UR calls. It shouldnt be called a quad lutz more like a 3 and a quarter lutz.
-1
Опять разбор полётов
She shouldn't be allowed to compete again until she stops cheating. Her "quads" get 2-2.5 rotations in the air maximum. Her technique is GARBAGE and I hope she retires soon.
URlisa
That's a stupid comment