I feel like the soul of Tolkien’s work will live on. All these films and merchandise have just made people more interested in the books, and through that, more and more people learn what it’s really about and reject all the corporate crap.
He (The Lord of the Rings that is) was already immensely popular before the movies. His books were "underground" and had a "cult" following. The LOTR movies were very good (although they left out Tom Bombadil) but now his legacy is being tarnished by all the crap that is being put out. First "The Hobbit," now the "Rings of Power" fiasco. This is exactly what he feared.
"The old world will burn in the fires of industry. The forests will fall. A new order will rise. We will drive the machinery of war with the sword and the spear and the iron fist of the Orc. We have only to remove those who oppose us." Coincidence? I think not.
The whole thing is such a reflection of Tolkien's work itself. A huge theme of the legendarium is that while the pure magnificent works of the past are lost or destroyed, the subcreations based on those works in some way carry more depth of beauty than the original more pure and less tainted work. (i.e. the two lamps becoming the trees becoming the sun and moon) I think in a way JRR Tolkien was feeling like one of the elves lamenting the changing of the world and all of the corruption of men. I would argue that a huge amount of beauty has been subcreated from Tolkien's works. And while we do see our own tyrannical figures corrupting and debasing the work as we speak, we are also seeing many people exploring his work, discussing it, and importantly adding depth and meaning that was not there originally. And that is enhancing and deepening the work. It will be very messy once the IP rights of Tolkien's work expires, but I really look forward to that day so that we may see the beautiful subcreative gems which capture the light of Tolkien's work and reflect it in new and beautiful colours. I think it can often be too easy to get caught up on thinking about the Morgoths of the world and to miss the good that is happening more quietly in the world. Back in Tolkien's time most people were lamenting the evil of the world wars. But far less focus was being paid to the good Tolkien himself was doing. Or to the different goods many other people were doing which aren't even as remembered as Tolkien. We have the same numbers of such people nowadays. Largely they are fighting for different things than at that time, but there are still a lot of good people in this world.
As an older Tolkien fan, I was afraid of this since the success of the original movies, but I've overcome my sadness over the pillage with this thought: Thanks to the current hype on Tolkien"s work, his legacy will live on. Like Shakespeare, or any other great, his work will many times be misused, but it will be remember. And there will always be those who will remember it rightly
I remember the popularity of LOTR during the early hippie days. They took the "pipe weed" and applied it to marijuana; this was when marijuana was first called "weed." And clearly pipe weed is not cannabis!
I think that the point is not to see if the PJ trilogy or the Amazon Series have some points in common with Tolkien's works, but it is to see if the goal is the same. What is the goal of Tolkien's works according to Tolkien ? It is to heal the world. LR (I've always used the abbreviation LOTR) is a fairy tale, according to JRRT's vision of a fairy tale and as such, - I am not giving a definition - it is a fictional story happening with the Faërie (Magic, you could say) in which the reader dives without noticing that he does. In that way, the fairy tale is authentic and able to heal the reader through (for example) evading the present times, and consoling from the harshness and ugliness of the modern life. And that is a noble goal because in this spiritual retreat, being consoled from his sadnesses, the reader is able to notice what's wrong with the present times, and he finds the desire to fix it at his own scale, just like JRRT did by writing for us. I don't know about you, but as for me, I've always felt healed by the reading of Tolkien's works, like refreshed, having forgotten the wrong ways of the ugly world and aspiring to the good ways of fairer world. I could almost say that I would wish a "faerier" world. I think it makes us more human, in the noble sense.
I agree that these companies don’t have the best intentions with Tolkiens, but there are many Americans who lament the state of things today and long for traditional family, Faith, and community. God Bless 🙏🏻 Love seeing the good boy at the end. 👍
Uh... I honestly struggle to understand what "traditional family" has to do with this. Excuse me, if I misunderstood you, but generally the phrase "traditional family" is used to mean "not gay family". I don't know if Tolkien was in favour of this "traditional family" idea. He was a man of his time and a devout catholic, so I wouldn't be surprised. But mixing Tolkien's ideas of anti-consumerism and unity with blatant homophobia doesn't make him or his ideas look better.
@@crusader2112 Oh, that's alright then. As I said, if that's not what you meant, it's completely fine. Unfortunately, the words "traditional family" have become a dog whistle used to exclude gay people. By the way, I looked into it, and while Tolkien never publically said anything about gay people or relationships (again, the time), he complimented the very pro-gay works of a few authors.
Is American culture really that traditional, though? I've noticed that even "patriotic" red-state types are very much a part of today's world of the Internet and other forms of "endless" entertainment. I hear Trump supporters complain all the time about "liberal domination" of the communications media, when in fact they should consider social media one of their greatest friends and allies. I try to tell people that cyberspace is simply crawling with anti-liberal grotesquerie, but they won't believe me.
Pretty amazing video (as always), I admire the way you of explaining this things, without making it sound like a hateful fanboyist rant, or something like that. 🙂
I don't doubt he would have hated the PJ movies, but ultimately, films are a collaborative process. While they did away with most of the spiritual & philosophical tones he wanted portayed in favor of widespread cinematic languages & ideas most people would be ammenable to, such as action scenes & battles, to strictly adhere to his filmic idea of LotR that mirrored the books and the world straight out of his own mind would be tyrannical even as the author. Again, movies are collaborative, and in letter 328 you mentioned Tolkein saying that the stories no longer belong to him, and to a degree, he trusts that people who truly love these stories will defend its soul from the corporations & mass consumerism that will inevitably mutate it. With respect to the trilogy, Peter Jackson & co., have done their best to realize & manifest a faithful rendition of the books as best as they could without being outrigh clones of Tolkein himself. While not perfect to utmost criteria & expectations, it is a masterpiece of its craft and shining beacon for acheivements. And not least of all, the trilogy remains a gateway to the books.
@@anni.68 It's not like they're submitting a paper to be graded by you. They expressed an opinion, if it made you curious and question it, perhaps you can go research it with your mind open to how they might see things. You don't have to challenge everything, nor put people on the spot over a trifling topic.
@@anni.68 Again, that is her opinion. Free speech, and she is not obligated to give an accounting of herself to you or to me for her opinion. If it can be proven to be injurious or defame another person or entity, then yes, they will have to answer in a court of law. If you feel she has crossed the line, report her, but be prepared to be accused of libel and/or slander yourself if she chooses to resist you. And beware of being accused of harassment as well.
I know from certain who individuals who have connections to the show that it was a nightmare behind the scenes. people were fired left and right, writers couldn't agree what story they wanted to tell, the show was originally about a young Aragorn, some wanted to adapt the Silmarillion but didn't have the adaption rights to the book, the Tolkien estate giving them a long list of things they could and couldn't do on the show such as referencing the movies (even though the showrunners wanted to connect ROP to the movies) writers being fired because they wanted to insert more woke elemets into the show and was met with disapproval, Tolkien selling out to Bezos on his tantalizing and money venture in making LOTR into the next Game of Thrones (which we all know how highly successful that was) a Tolkien scholar being fired, COVID19 impacting everything, the originally being 10 episodes but somewhere being changed to 8 instead, Jeff Bezos allegedly visiting the set and was furious on what he saw and demanded changes to be made in the middle of shooting. All in all, this show was produced with everyone's hands tied behind their backs, not really knowing what they wanted to do and the clock was ticking, and the best they could come up with was fan fiction.
Tolkien may have hated the Peter Jackson trilogy, but I don't think he would have hated it as much as this hypothetical movie from the 50s. He mentions crazy stuff happening like Boromir floating for some reason or the movie not paying enough attention to the journey of the Ringbearers, a detail that I think the Jackson films got right, though yes, he would have hated Saruman's death as much.
I have no doubt he would have hated the existing trilogy. I think the thing he would hate most about it would have been that Jackson had Aragorn decapitate the Mouth of Sauron. Book Aragorn would never have committed such a black and dishonorable deed. That whole encounter was under a truce of parley. Aragorn violated it in the movie.
Oh, I agree with your conclusion wholly. The fact that Tolkien sold it off doesn't mean we don't get to have an opinion. The buyers of those rights don't become "right" in some magical way. They just become legally able to do whatever they please.
I complettly disagree with Tolkien's veiw on America, since we where mainly founded by very religious people long before the founding fathers even. But I do understand his veiws.
You are wrong. America wasn’t founded by ‘very religious people’ it was made by a confederation of thirteen colonies who rebelled against England, So America was founded by rebels not religious people. And by ‘even before the founding fathers* I don’t know what you mean. Even if the colonies were founded by ‘Very Religious people’ as you say, they were mostly Protestant, Anglican Christians which tolkien majorly disliked
The Lord of the Rings trilogy is basically a unique phenomena where it got big budget corporate support but retained it's essence of the original vision. It will never return again unfortunately. It's not that Rings of Power is bad, I thought it was just without soul. I was not invested in it at all. It doesn't do anything bold or spiritual. I only finished the season to confirm who was Sauron. It's like a cheap imitation of fantasy dramas that were good, like original Game of Thrones. There's so many crappy soulless fantasy adaptations right now. They don't get at the heart of what makes fantasy good or did. I feel like I'm following some cheesy middle school story that doesn't respect the viewers intelligence. Tolkien was a mixed bag with his politics in my opinion. I think his humanism and love of nature are great. He understood how modern capitalism destroys though his view of regressive to some sort of feudal society living off the land instead of a more progressive society. In my view, how he describes the orcs is like a metaphorical incarnation of militarism and how it corrupts and dehumanizes, rather than some evil foreigner or racist trope.
Calling Tolkien a conservative is incorrect. He is a reactionary. As an American, I completely endorse his attitude toward my country, only noting that Britain has been infected by this same “secularist” “materialistic” spirit, and probably at least as far gone as we are. I think the popularity of his work, and the film treatments, are positive in the sense that millions of people have been awakened to Tolkien, and are now exposed to his faith and thought, even if in an attenuated fashion.. His idea that his legendarium might create a living mythology for the Anglophone world has been realized, even if corrupt minds and hands have besmirched it. Tolkien and Lewis are probably the two most important Christian writers of the past hundred years in terms of impact in drawing people toward the Faith, causing millions of people to take it seriously as the source of all beauty and truth, the essential expression of “that magic welling up from within, deep down things..”. They can and will betray and trivialize him, just as they try to do Christ, but Tolkien and Christ will always have the last laugh: we have the texts, those are a perpetual inheritance left us.. Tolkien’s writings are a sort of latter day scripture akin to the Bible, something ineradicable, irreducible, that they will never be able to pollute or destroy, something they’ll never be able to take from us, no matter how hard they try.
The why seems to range from a lack of a deep understanding on the part of the money people all the way to an attempt to cater to the widest possible modern audience, leading to a generic and soulless product. Just my opinion of course!!
@InkandFantasy respectfully, I think it's a bit more intentional than that. Tolkiens legacy and mythologies are fundamentally Christian, and Hollywood is not. I used the word intentional, but there are varying degrees of intentionality. We wrestle not against flesh and blood - but against powers and principalities, against spiritual wickedness in high places. It's not about money. It's about bastardizing and perverting and destroying Tolkiens memory and his work and everything that the Lord of the Rings and it's greater legendarium represents, because it's based, because it serves God, because it's wholesome, it represents order, tradition, free will, it forces a current into the culture that leads to these things, which brings more souls to a place of repentance and salvation. The people who are investing money knowing that it will be lost, the people who are giving up money, for the destruction of Tolkiens legacy hate Tolkiens legacy and want to turn it into Game of Thrones, cheap, nihilistic, short attention span, depraved, hypersexualized, violence fetishist, meaningless, despair fuelled, anti human, anti natalist, total brain rot leftist demonic garbage for the masses. The simple truth is that Tolkiens legacy at its core: is a cross, is the Sign of the Cross. Demons want to destroy it. Now, were Peter Jackson and New Line Cinema as willfully and intentionally doing this in the early 2000s as amazon is now? Are any of these people as willfull and intentional in their actions as the broader institutions they make up, or the powers and principalities of the air that man made institutions ultimately serve, historically and on a macro level? There's a lot of nuance there, but ultimately that's what's going on, not my opinion, but my understanding. Everything they make from the Tolkien legendarium will be worse than the previous, and will also make less money, but it won't matter. And as others have said, they can never really take his legacy because the mythology will endure through the books, which again I would say is more because of how unquestionably based (Christian) the stories are and thats because John Ronald was a great man and a good Christian man above all ✝️
It's always a sad thing when people approach literary works with their own presuppositions and ideas, desiring to interpret, change, or corrupt the core message that the author is trying to convey. Reading and examining text is all about trying to understand the position and ideas of the author, understand them, and appreciate them. Instead people now approach great works like LOTR and the BIBLE with their own ideas, and "how it made me feel", or "this is what I think this particular work is trying to say", rather than trying to truly understand the author's position and be enlightened with new and different perspectives from their own. While LOTR has inspired many modern fantasy properties and works, none of these contemporary works has the soul, or spirituality that Tolkien's original message contained. Looking at you D&D, Rings of Power, and WOW.
Well, I believe you to be only partly right. I, for one, hold rather anti-conservative views, yet I feel the very same sanity in sanctity in the work of Professor. He may have hated people of opposing views to love his work, but to make this unable to happen, he would have to write his book so that there is no Truth in it. But there is a lot of Truth in it. And Truth is beside the divide of political views. However you view gender roles, for example, it is either true that mercy without seeking a gain for itself has a merit on its own - or untrue. However you view feminism and hippies, it is either true that true Good never violates the will of others, never adds a price tag on what it gives freely, - or untrue. But the things he hated - destruction the very soul of things for profit - are very real in the world and very bad, too. Soul ecology, as well as nature ecology and mind ecology, is very important for our wellbeing as humans, yet profit seeking ranks the issues of ecology rather low. In any case, it is totally NOT fact that Tolkien would hate the movies. You pointed rightly that he obsessed over SOME textual details, but do not forget that what was important after all was the soul of this story. The details were important as long as they INCARNATED this soul into words - yet unimportant in other senses. From my POV, Jackson trilogy was made with a lot of love and care to keep the soul. So I highly doubt that Tolkien would hate it. Far from the fact this conjecture is!
I agree that greed is destroying our connections and care for each other and leading to increasing mental health issues. I don't agree that this is because we're losing our traditions. I think it's more that traditions etc. were things that connected us and bonded us together, and it's these things that gives us our "soul" not traditions. Traditions are merely in that sense one of the means to that end.
Would Tolkien ever have sold movie rights if he had foreseen the development of the CGI technology? IMO he could not imagine that movie visualization would some day advance so far that it had the power to replace reader's imagination, when it comes to a work so complex and otherworldly as LotR and Middle-earth.
Companies are already trying to erase Tolkien, distancing his creation from their creator (which is painfully poetic, considering these companies want to remove Christianity from the works, as it conflicts with consumerism), much like was done with Lovecraft. They have already renamed Tolkien Enterprises to Middle-Earth Enterprises, and not long ago claimed the source material was just "his version of the events". In three decades no one will remember his name, and if they do, his memory will have been manipulated, changed from a Catholic traditionalist to whatever sells at the time.
It isn't, not could it every destroy his legacy. It might destroy any future for Tolkien's works in adaptations, but nonetheless, his legacy will last as long as stories are told
This video is very informative. I recommend that all the right-wingers currently lamenting the fact that America is no longer an "Anglo-Saxon nation" watch it. There IS an Atlantic Ocean, in spite of what they might want to believe. As an American (who is, incidentally, only one-eighth English by blood), I view the English and other Brits as basically just as foreign as any other peoples. But while I am basically a left-winger, I am also very disappointed in today's "woke" entertainment conglomerates, whose interpretations of THE LORD OF THE RINGS and other modern myths are, to me, not revolutionary or even particularly interesting. They are alienating not just middle-class audiences with their preaching and doom-saying, but (arguably) even the "hip" bohemian types they believe see them as cool. So many of their gimmicks are trite by this point. Depicting a cast of characters with all of humanity's skin colors, while off-putting in certain environments, is really not that subversive an idea, for multiculturalism in its most superficial form is as old as the very concept of empire. And portraying the orcs as sympathetic? Lord Byron was romanticizing villains two hundred years ago, and he was an aristocrat! The 21st-century "hipster" aesthetic is too complex to commodify...and, by the way, white heterosexual men are an integral element of it.
I think it is a well known fact that movies are never 100% accurate to the book and Hollywood changes some material. If people want to have the true Lord of the Rings experience, people know to read the original books.
@anni.68 Sadly rings of power had too much corporate oversight and completely missed the entire point, making it too over complicated for no reason, yet also dumb for no reason. The hobbit suffered from similar issues trying to pad the run time and shove in a pointless love triangle and weird wood elf hierarchy, marring a great new character of Tauriel who didn't deserve any of that stupid writing taking away from the plot
@anni.68 While yes, there were love triangles, they had a point to them. This love triangle was shoe horned in with no purpose and added nothing to the story or plot other than corporate marketing deciding it was a plot point needed to appeal to a certain demographic they believed wouldn't come see the movie otherwise and if the makes something attempting to appeal to everyone, it becomes incredibly bland and generic, which is why most modern movies just suck, and it has nothing to do with diversity casting or wokeness and everything to do with marketing trumping creativity and what makes a good story as well as massively underpaying writing staff so anytime a big change is needed its up to the show runner and a handful of people who didn't write or love the script to fix it, instead of a whole writers room they used to have in the past where changes could be made to be at least somewhat coherent and rational. Everything involving the dwarves in rings of power was great. I'd just watch a movie about that depiction of dwarves and have a great time. The Numenor were hit or miss, while the elves were all irrational, stupid and back shabby as hell. The point of this show is to never trust an elf. The show was dwarvish propoganda. I watched to I think episode 8, then had it spoiled to me as to who Sauron was which was stupid and lazy on so many levels I just quit. The Harfoots were ok but added little to the story, just like with the human elf pairing which did little and should have either been their own show or not included at all because as you said overstuffed plotline. They needed to do them right or not at all. I have no interest in watching season 2 thanks to the way it will most certainly just show you elves once again being assholes and doing stupid things someone who has lived a thousand years should know better not to do
@anni.68 As I said, I watched up to maybe episode 8 and stopped once I discovered who sauron was. It was a show that had a lot of potentially good elements that when it found it's footing it could be good. The fight against evil is the bare minimum, doesn't mean it's still very good. I'll have to see a lot more people I trust give such rave reviews on season 2 before I bother to watch it. So burnt out on this corporatized bad writing problem ruining all the great nerd franchises
What he says about America is true to a point. However it is not true of us all. Speaking for myself, I will remain a Catholic "semi-hermit" and cling to my books. It seems to me that his writing was NEVER intended to be made into movies or tv shows. So far this sort of thing only makes his work a hollow, woke cartoon.
I think Tolkien's view on American culture was a bit shallow. There is that element that he rightfully criticized. Many of us criticize it ourselves. However, there is more depth here than what our idiotic media wants to depict.
i've never heard anyone mention christopher's hatred for the films, or discuss tolkien's probable agreement, but i've always thought that they completely gut the books. not only was the spiritual nature of the books ignored, but entire character arcs were altered without any understanding of what they meant (i've argued this on this channel before but theoden being changed from a legend who overcame depression to ride to war, to a random old man who got saved from one wizard's spell by another wizard's spell will never stop p*ssing me off), and even central aspects of the story were removed like the scouring of the shire, which was arguably the most important part of the entire trilogy. if you're going to make any kind of change to a book in order to adapt it into a movie, the absolute bare minimum is to understand the author's intentions and ensure that you still convey all the same themes and messages, as soon as you change the meaning of even one aspect of the story it's no longer the same story, and the only reason to make the movie at that point is for profit. it is true that tolkien and his estate are to blame for selling the rights, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's objectively wrong to do what peter jackson, amazon and all the rest have done to lotr. and before someone defends the films for being difficult to adapt, my response is that if it's not possible to adapt something into a film accurately then maybe it wasn't meant to be adapted? even if everything was identical (which is impossible with such a subtle story being translated to a far less subtle medium), there's still the simple fact that traditional fantasy stories are all about evoking the reader's imagination, putting it on a screen immediately removes the most fundamental part of the genre. if you're genuinely inspired by tolkien's work then write your own damn books, and try to remember that you're supposed to emulate his method (by which i mean you should carefully consider what you want to say and how) rather than copying his worldbuilding with zero understanding of what your own story means, brainless lotr clones are even worse than the films
Somewhat ironic that you apparently couldn't resist slipping in "funny" pot shots at Rings of Power in a rather immature manner: playing to your audience? That said, having been a serious fan of Tolkien for over 35 years now, I personally find that Rings of Power explores the deep spiritual and moral themes, or "substance", of Tolkien much better than Jackson did, especially if we include the latter's Hobbit trilogy which remains, in my opinion, the most unTolkienian adaptation thus yet produced (though shout-out to the excellent M4 fan edit). I fully agree that Amazon is a terrible corporation, etc., but we have to separate that dimension if we wish to approach the material in its own right. In that respect, it is worth mentioning (you don't) that one of the showrunners, J.D. Payne, is himself a strong believer. He may be Mormon rather than Catholic, but the input of someone of strong spiritual conviction is plain to see for anyone who doesn't approach the show primarily with insurmountable cynicism. If one is watching Rings of Power and coming away thinking it is "anti-traditionalist" then that is certainly because one is allowing oneself to be distracted by surface elements rather than because of how it explores moral themes (e.g. the balance between pride and humility or power and cooperation) which, in my perspective, has been thoroughly Tolkienian and indeed restores to the Middle-earth legacy one of the things Christopher Tolkien believed had been "eviscerated" from it: the "philosophical scope." But, like I suggested, in order to reach that level of appreciation, the beholder may first have to adjust their own eye.
I really love Tolkien and I totally agree with him on his political and Christian views. As a Swede I can see that everything he warned us about is becoming true. Europe is getting killed from within with mass consumption, Americanization, individualism, materialism, globalism, mass immigration and multiculturalism. Europe is slowly disappearing to become just a international shit hole with no identity and nothing that is special for Europe. Awesome video btw! You are very good, keep the good work up man! 👍🙌
But when it came to the age of Tolkien, the United States played a paramount role as the driving force of capitalism and globalization during the Cold War, exerting unparalleled influence on the global stage.
I think Professor's Tolkien's understanding of the American culture is overly simplistic. Americans come from many other older cultures and their cultures still exist as strains and aspects of American cultures. BUT his critique of aspects of American culture being to wealth focused, and to materialistic are valid.
Is corporate greed destroying Tolkien's legacy? maybe. Not for those who read his books and stories. For those who are to lazy or stupid to read - yes. Do they hate Tolkien's legacy? No way! They love it because they can make money off it. Don't let your feelings about these corporations cloud your judgement.
Only one thing can be said....it's not looking good!!!! Either be it games, movies tv shows....these corporates don't care! Hell one would think that Lotr has ENORMOUS potential for video games and yet so far there has been so little actually good games that use the potential of the franchise!!! Hell amaozn MMO I'm not very optimistic about it! Hell one of the obvious choices to do would be to have a proper open world single player RPG set in this universe...and there has been none of that so far! A high quality lotr game like that would require a lot of passion, knowledge of the lore and how to utilize it in boht story and gameplay...and yet it would seem so easy on other hand...since Tolkien already did the most of the job for them!!!!!!! The example of the Witcher games shows how a developer studio can show a true passion for source material while making a game....that sort of approach is greatly needed for proper good lotr games!! Hell there is so much that one could do and they always screw it! Even if a lotr game wouldn't be particularly innovative in gameplay one could imagine them doing a good and most important lore faithful project that would be enjoyable....hell a Lotr game in style of Elder Scrolls, Dragon Age, Gothic or at least as Hogwarts Legacy, an open world immersive sandbox that would remain respectful of Tolkien's creative vision and allow us to venture into his world.....a lotr game that would be a sandbox in style of say,...Red Dead Redemption 2 for that freedom to live in this world with high quality graphics and physics allowing to enjoy the beauty of Middle-earth and some of it's realism! Or heck....even copy Assassin's Creed formula (it has been done somewhat already though with very lore breaking Shadow of Mordor and it's sequel) and model on the later titles to make something like.....AC Black Flag, mixed with Odyssey, Origins and Valhalla best elements...at least allowing us to explore the Middle-earth in proper way, and with sailing and naval combat hehehe imagine sea battles with ships of Corsairs of Umbar!!! :) Now that would be something.....as for other media....well after disaster of Amazon tv show and the upcoming animation War of the Rohirrim being no doubt twisted with agenda and messaging I have no hopes for any other movie projects!!!!!!!! These 'adapttions' are almost always getting worse and worse and worse.....hell Peter Jackson film trilogy was a lightning in the bottle and even it wasn't as perfect in some adaptational changes being done and so on.....but still the next projects were only steadily getting worse...Hobbit films...the show....so yeah the entire commercialization is a good point....though one would think that in sane world it could be done maintaining the artistic integrity.....hell Tolkien mentioned it either adopt policy of Art or Cash!!! But in the modern cynical world full of bullcrap well I can't see it done properly!!!!!!!
Tolkien would have loathed what Peter Jackson did with The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit. Jackson's adaptations were abysmal, and unfortunately only the tip of the iceberg.
They do. The adaptations crowd out the originals from the market. There are people who have never known Tolkien's text and based everything off the Jackson movies - and therefore, are convinced that pipe-weed is marijuana. Correct them with references from the text, and they begin abusing book fans. Asimov's "Foundation" was all about collaborative study, planning, intelligence, knowledge, the fate of the galaxy, human patterns... and AppleTV+'s adaptation have turned it into "magic psychic girl will save the empire". Doctor Who's first producer said the scripts were intended for whole families and intelligent children, would never talk down to children. Now the Doctor is supposedly an "avatar for the modern audience" and the show is pivoting to "fantasy" rather than science-fiction. And when talking about the foolishness of the modern characters, defenders say "it's always been like that" and cite ONLY THE MODERN SEASONS, never the original seasons. Bad adaptations CROWD OUT the original work until it's unknown.
Well, Tolkien himself chose to sell those rights in 1969. After that day, he no longer had any say in what was done with them. Instead, he was 100,000 pounds more wealthy. That's the decision he made.
I see on the comments why racists and xenophobes love Lord of the Rings. Maybe Tolkien would like them, considering how conservative he was but I won't throw away the books. On the other hand, I can't stand the Amazon series, I find them even worse.
14:39, the answer is obvious ... taking a look into both trilogies Peter Jackson didn't respected the cannon writings by Tolkien changing the story as whatever he pleased, obviously a film like such is just an adaptation, being so loyal to the book can result in a cumber-stone adaptation, but the case of the Hobbit is far beyond to what was suppose to be .. let's be honest, the ring as per Tolkien writing is money and today the money is what rules the world even films, and Tolkien foresaw this behavior.
It's not about America being a "melting pot," but losing their Christian moral values and being consumed by moralless capitalism and consumerism. It is well represented in [The Great Gatsby] by F. Scott Fitzgerald.
I love Token and I love his works. The stories of the first ages are some of the best stories I have read, but in my opinion, Token and his son, as well as the fanboys of his works, suffer from two problems. The first is megalomania and false elevation over others (philosophical, moral, and spiritual elevation), and the essence of this elevation is his works. The Lord of the Rings in particular, that is, they overloaded these works and tried to make them higher than they were (some people might say his mind is living an experience similar to a prophet or a religious leader). The second problem is that he produced works for young people in the first place without knowing that and refusing to do so. He admits this thing. He is simply very arrogant and happy with his works to the point that he does not see anyone reading them or caring about them. He suffered from this problem throughout his life until he died, and now Fanboy is suffering from it. Token created a world for young revolutionary leftists (it is possible to say that he is even a hippie). Without knowing it, his works did not attract the demographic he was hoping for. For this reason, Token died almost isolated from most of his fans and the lovers of the world he created, and he was content with communicating with a simple elite of them, (his favorite demographic). For this reason, there is always, it can be said, ideological hostility. Between him or those who claim to defend the essence of his works and between the general public or even the rest of his fans...an additional thing I want to say is that Token is a morally and philosophically stilted person to the point of irritation and hypocrisy at times. I think that he suffered, especially after the success of the works of The Lord of the Rings, from a complex of greatness and Purity, and I fear that some of you are beginning to suffer from it
1) please spell the name right 2) please use line breaks in your text 3) he originally wrote his books FOR HIS CHILDREN 4) he absolutely wasn't a hippie, he was a conservative, he compared himself to the Hobbits directly I'm not sure a single thing you've said is even slightly correct or true.
@@troffle First, he did not write the legends as a whole for his children, just Hobbit, and when he finished publishing The Lord of the Rings, he modified the Hobbit to fit the events of the world. Second, I know that he is a conservative Christian. I was talking about the demographic that was attracted to his world (hippies). Third, in addition to what I said about his isolation. Regarding most of his fans (which, by the way, was true, search for it and verify it) My entire comment is an opinion. It is superficial for you to respond to me with the phrase “This is not true.” People have the right to share their critical opinions regarding your beloved author. Fourth, English is not my first language. I have problems with expression. Also, when I talk about Tolkien, I say token , as a simplification of writing again, English is not my first language
@@walidmohammed2796 Yes, I was referring to the Hobbit. My only problem with your expression is you not using more line breaks in your text, that has nothing to do with language.
I mean everyone agrees that corporations suck but man I find Tolkiens negative generalization of us as, well I’m not gonna say offensive, I mean he’s dead so why should I care? But such a negative view of an entire group of people is something I wouldn’t have expected of him.
You seem to fail to see that your famous movie trilogy was no different than the new shit. You all killed his work and legacy by hailing my most hated movies. Like Christoper Tolkien I can only look away. Nothing left to do.
How about instead of pushing an agenda we just leave the books alone. We don’t need new content just watch the movies, as much as we can blame the producers. People have been begging for LOTR content as well, we’re better off with the originals and that’s all we’re getting and that’s okay too. (If you approve this message please leave a like)
Tolkien was 100% right. And @seancrane1431 is right too - there are those of us here in America who recognize the darkness of the direction of culture has moved in.
![Ice On My Teeth - ATEEZ エイティーズ 에이티즈 [Music Bank] | KBS WORLD TV 241115](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/c-n92OgbbwA/mqdefault.jpg)
I feel like the soul of Tolkien’s work will live on. All these films and merchandise have just made people more interested in the books, and through that, more and more people learn what it’s really about and reject all the corporate crap.
Decades from now the bad will be forgotten and the good and the original stories will remain. The same goes for Star Wars and other stories.
Until big corporations start editing the books and forcing libraries to sell them for abusive prices.
He (The Lord of the Rings that is) was already immensely popular before the movies. His books were "underground" and had a "cult" following. The LOTR movies were very good (although they left out Tom Bombadil) but now his legacy is being tarnished by all the crap that is being put out. First "The Hobbit," now the "Rings of Power" fiasco. This is exactly what he feared.
Amen
Yup, as they say there is no bad publicity
Trust me, You're not offending any Americans when critcizing the greed and lack of soul present in our corporations. Only idiots would take offence.
As an American, I 100% agree.
Same. 👍
Agreed
Everyone hates Corporations, regardless of their other politics.
Agreed America has been extremely bad for the world and the root of most of everyone.
Sauron has a new name in the fourth age and it's name is Amazon.
*seventh age*
Amazon son of Arathon
“The fires of Industry”
"The old world will burn in the fires of industry. The forests will fall. A new order will rise. We will drive the machinery of war with the sword and the spear and the iron fist of the Orc. We have only to remove those who oppose us."
Coincidence? I think not.
Modern Balrogs.
The whole thing is such a reflection of Tolkien's work itself. A huge theme of the legendarium is that while the pure magnificent works of the past are lost or destroyed, the subcreations based on those works in some way carry more depth of beauty than the original more pure and less tainted work. (i.e. the two lamps becoming the trees becoming the sun and moon)
I think in a way JRR Tolkien was feeling like one of the elves lamenting the changing of the world and all of the corruption of men. I would argue that a huge amount of beauty has been subcreated from Tolkien's works. And while we do see our own tyrannical figures corrupting and debasing the work as we speak, we are also seeing many people exploring his work, discussing it, and importantly adding depth and meaning that was not there originally. And that is enhancing and deepening the work. It will be very messy once the IP rights of Tolkien's work expires, but I really look forward to that day so that we may see the beautiful subcreative gems which capture the light of Tolkien's work and reflect it in new and beautiful colours.
I think it can often be too easy to get caught up on thinking about the Morgoths of the world and to miss the good that is happening more quietly in the world. Back in Tolkien's time most people were lamenting the evil of the world wars. But far less focus was being paid to the good Tolkien himself was doing. Or to the different goods many other people were doing which aren't even as remembered as Tolkien. We have the same numbers of such people nowadays. Largely they are fighting for different things than at that time, but there are still a lot of good people in this world.
As an older Tolkien fan, I was afraid of this since the success of the original movies, but I've overcome my sadness over the pillage with this thought: Thanks to the current hype on Tolkien"s work, his legacy will live on. Like Shakespeare, or any other great, his work will many times be misused, but it will be remember. And there will always be those who will remember it rightly
I remember the popularity of LOTR during the early hippie days. They took the "pipe weed" and applied it to marijuana; this was when marijuana was first called "weed." And clearly pipe weed is not cannabis!
Yup total degenerates.
I think that the point is not to see if the PJ trilogy or the Amazon Series have some points in common with Tolkien's works, but it is to see if the goal is the same.
What is the goal of Tolkien's works according to Tolkien ? It is to heal the world. LR (I've always used the abbreviation LOTR) is a fairy tale, according to JRRT's vision of a fairy tale and as such, - I am not giving a definition - it is a fictional story happening with the Faërie (Magic, you could say) in which the reader dives without noticing that he does. In that way, the fairy tale is authentic and able to heal the reader through (for example) evading the present times, and consoling from the harshness and ugliness of the modern life. And that is a noble goal because in this spiritual retreat, being consoled from his sadnesses, the reader is able to notice what's wrong with the present times, and he finds the desire to fix it at his own scale, just like JRRT did by writing for us.
I don't know about you, but as for me, I've always felt healed by the reading of Tolkien's works, like refreshed, having forgotten the wrong ways of the ugly world and aspiring to the good ways of fairer world. I could almost say that I would wish a "faerier" world. I think it makes us more human, in the noble sense.
I agree that these companies don’t have the best intentions with Tolkiens, but there are many Americans who lament the state of things today and long for traditional family, Faith, and community. God Bless 🙏🏻 Love seeing the good boy at the end. 👍
Uh... I honestly struggle to understand what "traditional family" has to do with this. Excuse me, if I misunderstood you, but generally the phrase "traditional family" is used to mean "not gay family". I don't know if Tolkien was in favour of this "traditional family" idea. He was a man of his time and a devout catholic, so I wouldn't be surprised. But mixing Tolkien's ideas of anti-consumerism and unity with blatant homophobia doesn't make him or his ideas look better.
@@ghurcbghurcb I didn’t even mention homosexuality, I just mean that the family has been greatly damaged with many broken families today.
@@crusader2112 Oh, that's alright then. As I said, if that's not what you meant, it's completely fine. Unfortunately, the words "traditional family" have become a dog whistle used to exclude gay people.
By the way, I looked into it, and while Tolkien never publically said anything about gay people or relationships (again, the time), he complimented the very pro-gay works of a few authors.
@@ghurcbghurcb Yeah, I’m not dog-whistling, I’m being genuine, though I can see how someone would be skeptical. Take care. Peace ✌🏻
Is American culture really that traditional, though? I've noticed that even "patriotic" red-state types are very much a part of today's world of the Internet and other forms of "endless" entertainment. I hear Trump supporters complain all the time about "liberal domination" of the communications media, when in fact they should consider social media one of their greatest friends and allies. I try to tell people that cyberspace is simply crawling with anti-liberal grotesquerie, but they won't believe me.
Pretty amazing video (as always), I admire the way you of explaining this things, without making it sound like a hateful fanboyist rant, or something like that. 🙂
Thank you so much!!!
thats exactly what i was thinking!!!
As an american, (I'm an Orthodox Catholic first, an american second). I firmly agree with Tolkien's critique of my country.
I love Tolkien his views are very eye opening and still relevant to today. I completely agree with him on his views especially in his way of thinking.
If he didnt like Walt Disney's work he would have lost his mind over the Amazon hatchet job of his life's work.
I don't doubt he would have hated the PJ movies, but ultimately, films are a collaborative process. While they did away with most of the spiritual & philosophical tones he wanted portayed in favor of widespread cinematic languages & ideas most people would be ammenable to, such as action scenes & battles, to strictly adhere to his filmic idea of LotR that mirrored the books and the world straight out of his own mind would be tyrannical even as the author. Again, movies are collaborative, and in letter 328 you mentioned Tolkein saying that the stories no longer belong to him, and to a degree, he trusts that people who truly love these stories will defend its soul from the corporations & mass consumerism that will inevitably mutate it. With respect to the trilogy, Peter Jackson & co., have done their best to realize & manifest a faithful rendition of the books as best as they could without being outrigh clones of Tolkein himself. While not perfect to utmost criteria & expectations, it is a masterpiece of its craft and shining beacon for acheivements. And not least of all, the trilogy remains a gateway to the books.
Another reason why they hate Tolkien was because he was a Christian. That is also why they ignore
his beliefs.
@@anni.68 Were you perhaps born yesterday?
@@anni.68 For example Aragorn murdering the Mouth of Sauron.
@@anni.68You're just wanting to argue, aren't you?
@@anni.68 It's not like they're submitting a paper to be graded by you.
They expressed an opinion, if it made you curious and question it, perhaps you can go research it with your mind open to how they might see things.
You don't have to challenge everything, nor put people on the spot over a trifling topic.
@@anni.68 Again, that is her opinion. Free speech, and she is not obligated to give an accounting of herself to you or to me for her opinion.
If it can be proven to be injurious or defame another person or entity, then yes, they will have to answer in a court of law.
If you feel she has crossed the line, report her, but be prepared to be accused of libel and/or slander yourself if she chooses to resist you.
And beware of being accused of harassment as well.
Tolkien would be ashamed of what's being in his name...
I dont think he ever would have published his work if he knew this is what it would come to.
@@Lornext that depends on how much he loved his artistic vision.
I don't even know if it's greed at this point. Every decision looks like it was intentionally done to lose money.
****lightbulb****
Yes it's not greed it's to push an agenda and intentionally destroy something good.
Indeed.
If Tolkien was alive,he'd probably hate Tolkien's vision.
I Love your channel and how much you teach us about Tolkien's work and philosophy. Keep it up!
Thank you, I really appreciate it!!
For me reading Tolkien's fantasy feels like a bliss beyond the material realm. I don't understand why people prefer money over this
Tolkien wouldn't even approve of the movies to begin with. So he wouldn't be okay with all the new media either.
I know from certain who individuals who have connections to the show that it was a nightmare behind the scenes. people were fired left and right, writers couldn't agree what story they wanted to tell, the show was originally about a young Aragorn, some wanted to adapt the Silmarillion but didn't have the adaption rights to the book, the Tolkien estate giving them a long list of things they could and couldn't do on the show such as referencing the movies (even though the showrunners wanted to connect ROP to the movies) writers being fired because they wanted to insert more woke elemets into the show and was met with disapproval, Tolkien selling out to Bezos on his tantalizing and money venture in making LOTR into the next Game of Thrones (which we all know how highly successful that was) a Tolkien scholar being fired, COVID19 impacting everything, the originally being 10 episodes but somewhere being changed to 8 instead, Jeff Bezos allegedly visiting the set and was furious on what he saw and demanded changes to be made in the middle of shooting. All in all, this show was produced with everyone's hands tied behind their backs, not really knowing what they wanted to do and the clock was ticking, and the best they could come up with was fan fiction.
Tolkien may have hated the Peter Jackson trilogy, but I don't think he would have hated it as much as this hypothetical movie from the 50s. He mentions crazy stuff happening like Boromir floating for some reason or the movie not paying enough attention to the journey of the Ringbearers, a detail that I think the Jackson films got right, though yes, he would have hated Saruman's death as much.
Fortunately, the books are still the books and the LOTR movies are still the LOTR movies, no matter what anyone does now.
I have no doubt he would have hated the existing trilogy. I think the thing he would hate most about it would have been that Jackson had Aragorn decapitate the Mouth of Sauron. Book Aragorn would never have committed such a black and dishonorable deed. That whole encounter was under a truce of parley. Aragorn violated it in the movie.
Oh, I agree with your conclusion wholly. The fact that Tolkien sold it off doesn't mean we don't get to have an opinion. The buyers of those rights don't become "right" in some magical way. They just become legally able to do whatever they please.
If Tolkien knew what would become of his work... Im starting to believe he never would have published his work at all.
You completely nailed it. Excellent insight.
I complettly disagree with Tolkien's veiw on America, since we where mainly founded by very religious people long before the founding fathers even. But I do understand his veiws.
You are wrong. America wasn’t founded by ‘very religious people’ it was made by a confederation of thirteen colonies who rebelled against England, So America was founded by rebels not religious people. And by ‘even before the founding fathers* I don’t know what you mean. Even if the colonies were founded by ‘Very Religious people’ as you say, they were mostly Protestant, Anglican Christians which tolkien majorly disliked
And by the way America was the first Secular Country.
Dude the pilgrim's were religious fanatics.
@@samueltv9428 they never called themselves pilgrims they were really separatists from the church of England
@@DOM-rt8htnothing wrong with that
his legacy is fine. people who dont dig past this superficial trash being made today arent ever going to understand his legacy
The Lord of the Rings trilogy is basically a unique phenomena where it got big budget corporate support but retained it's essence of the original vision. It will never return again unfortunately. It's not that Rings of Power is bad, I thought it was just without soul. I was not invested in it at all. It doesn't do anything bold or spiritual. I only finished the season to confirm who was Sauron. It's like a cheap imitation of fantasy dramas that were good, like original Game of Thrones. There's so many crappy soulless fantasy adaptations right now. They don't get at the heart of what makes fantasy good or did. I feel like I'm following some cheesy middle school story that doesn't respect the viewers intelligence.
Tolkien was a mixed bag with his politics in my opinion. I think his humanism and love of nature are great. He understood how modern capitalism destroys though his view of regressive to some sort of feudal society living off the land instead of a more progressive society. In my view, how he describes the orcs is like a metaphorical incarnation of militarism and how it corrupts and dehumanizes, rather than some evil foreigner or racist trope.
Calling Tolkien a conservative is incorrect. He is a reactionary. As an American, I completely endorse his attitude toward my country, only noting that Britain has been infected by this same “secularist” “materialistic” spirit, and probably at least as far gone as we are. I think the popularity of his work, and the film treatments, are positive in the sense that millions of people have been awakened to Tolkien, and are now exposed to his faith and thought, even if in an attenuated fashion.. His idea that his legendarium might create a living mythology for the Anglophone world has been realized, even if corrupt minds and hands have besmirched it. Tolkien and Lewis are probably the two most important Christian writers of the past hundred years in terms of impact in drawing people toward the Faith, causing millions of people to take it seriously as the source of all beauty and truth, the essential expression of “that magic welling up from within, deep down things..”. They can and will betray and trivialize him, just as they try to do Christ, but Tolkien and Christ will always have the last laugh: we have the texts, those are a perpetual inheritance left us.. Tolkien’s writings are a sort of latter day scripture akin to the Bible, something ineradicable, irreducible, that they will never be able to pollute or destroy, something they’ll never be able to take from us, no matter how hard they try.
Having material goods isn't a bad thing nor is being secular
@@dylansearcy3966 You're not gonna get this thorough their head. They're ideologically defunct to Christ. It's gonna be hard to convince them.
How’s your research on what Tolkien thought of Wagner coming along?
It’s going well, I’ve finished gathering the sources!!!
I know you mean the musician, but for a minute I thought you meant the mercenary company. Now that would be a video I’d watch!
The how is obvious and easy to explain/comprehend.... the WHY is what most people seem to really struggle with unfortunately
The why seems to range from a lack of a deep understanding on the part of the money people all the way to an attempt to cater to the widest possible modern audience, leading to a generic and soulless product. Just my opinion of course!!
@InkandFantasy respectfully, I think it's a bit more intentional than that. Tolkiens legacy and mythologies are fundamentally Christian, and Hollywood is not. I used the word intentional, but there are varying degrees of intentionality. We wrestle not against flesh and blood - but against powers and principalities, against spiritual wickedness in high places. It's not about money. It's about bastardizing and perverting and destroying Tolkiens memory and his work and everything that the Lord of the Rings and it's greater legendarium represents, because it's based, because it serves God, because it's wholesome, it represents order, tradition, free will, it forces a current into the culture that leads to these things, which brings more souls to a place of repentance and salvation. The people who are investing money knowing that it will be lost, the people who are giving up money, for the destruction of Tolkiens legacy hate Tolkiens legacy and want to turn it into Game of Thrones, cheap, nihilistic, short attention span, depraved, hypersexualized, violence fetishist, meaningless, despair fuelled, anti human, anti natalist, total brain rot leftist demonic garbage for the masses. The simple truth is that Tolkiens legacy at its core: is a cross, is the Sign of the Cross. Demons want to destroy it. Now, were Peter Jackson and New Line Cinema as willfully and intentionally doing this in the early 2000s as amazon is now? Are any of these people as willfull and intentional in their actions as the broader institutions they make up, or the powers and principalities of the air that man made institutions ultimately serve, historically and on a macro level? There's a lot of nuance there, but ultimately that's what's going on, not my opinion, but my understanding. Everything they make from the Tolkien legendarium will be worse than the previous, and will also make less money, but it won't matter. And as others have said, they can never really take his legacy because the mythology will endure through the books, which again I would say is more because of how unquestionably based (Christian) the stories are and thats because John Ronald was a great man and a good Christian man above all ✝️
Soul is eternal. Nothing can taint the soul beyond repair.
It's always a sad thing when people approach literary works with their own presuppositions and ideas, desiring to interpret, change, or corrupt the core message that the author is trying to convey. Reading and examining text is all about trying to understand the position and ideas of the author, understand them, and appreciate them. Instead people now approach great works like LOTR and the BIBLE with their own ideas, and "how it made me feel", or "this is what I think this particular work is trying to say", rather than trying to truly understand the author's position and be enlightened with new and different perspectives from their own. While LOTR has inspired many modern fantasy properties and works, none of these contemporary works has the soul, or spirituality that Tolkien's original message contained. Looking at you D&D, Rings of Power, and WOW.
Well, I believe you to be only partly right. I, for one, hold rather anti-conservative views, yet I feel the very same sanity in sanctity in the work of Professor. He may have hated people of opposing views to love his work, but to make this unable to happen, he would have to write his book so that there is no Truth in it. But there is a lot of Truth in it. And Truth is beside the divide of political views.
However you view gender roles, for example, it is either true that mercy without seeking a gain for itself has a merit on its own - or untrue. However you view feminism and hippies, it is either true that true Good never violates the will of others, never adds a price tag on what it gives freely, - or untrue.
But the things he hated - destruction the very soul of things for profit - are very real in the world and very bad, too. Soul ecology, as well as nature ecology and mind ecology, is very important for our wellbeing as humans, yet profit seeking ranks the issues of ecology rather low.
In any case, it is totally NOT fact that Tolkien would hate the movies. You pointed rightly that he obsessed over SOME textual details, but do not forget that what was important after all was the soul of this story. The details were important as long as they INCARNATED this soul into words - yet unimportant in other senses.
From my POV, Jackson trilogy was made with a lot of love and care to keep the soul. So I highly doubt that Tolkien would hate it. Far from the fact this conjecture is!
I agree that greed is destroying our connections and care for each other and leading to increasing mental health issues. I don't agree that this is because we're losing our traditions. I think it's more that traditions etc. were things that connected us and bonded us together, and it's these things that gives us our "soul" not traditions. Traditions are merely in that sense one of the means to that end.
Would Tolkien ever have sold movie rights if he had foreseen the development of the CGI technology? IMO he could not imagine that movie visualization would some day advance so far that it had the power to replace reader's imagination, when it comes to a work so complex and otherworldly as LotR and Middle-earth.
I wish that I could do something to protect Tolkien's world.
Rings of Power is an insult to the memory of J.R.R. Tolkien and all that he stood for.
Companies are already trying to erase Tolkien, distancing his creation from their creator (which is painfully poetic, considering these companies want to remove Christianity from the works, as it conflicts with consumerism), much like was done with Lovecraft.
They have already renamed Tolkien Enterprises to Middle-Earth Enterprises, and not long ago claimed the source material was just "his version of the events". In three decades no one will remember his name, and if they do, his memory will have been manipulated, changed from a Catholic traditionalist to whatever sells at the time.
The legacy is in the books, not Simon Tolkien’s greed.
Sometimes I wonder if the Public Domain can protect a story from defilement.
What a depressing time to be alive.
It isn't, not could it every destroy his legacy. It might destroy any future for Tolkien's works in adaptations, but nonetheless, his legacy will last as long as stories are told
This video is very informative. I recommend that all the right-wingers currently lamenting the fact that America is no longer an "Anglo-Saxon nation" watch it. There IS an Atlantic Ocean, in spite of what they might want to believe. As an American (who is, incidentally, only one-eighth English by blood), I view the English and other Brits as basically just as foreign as any other peoples.
But while I am basically a left-winger, I am also very disappointed in today's "woke" entertainment conglomerates, whose interpretations of THE LORD OF THE RINGS and other modern myths are, to me, not revolutionary or even particularly interesting. They are alienating not just middle-class audiences with their preaching and doom-saying, but (arguably) even the "hip" bohemian types they believe see them as cool. So many of their gimmicks are trite by this point. Depicting a cast of characters with all of humanity's skin colors, while off-putting in certain environments, is really not that subversive an idea, for multiculturalism in its most superficial form is as old as the very concept of empire. And portraying the orcs as sympathetic? Lord Byron was romanticizing villains two hundred years ago, and he was an aristocrat! The 21st-century "hipster" aesthetic is too complex to commodify...and, by the way, white heterosexual men are an integral element of it.
I think it is a well known fact that movies are never 100% accurate to the book and Hollywood changes some material. If people want to have the true Lord of the Rings experience, people know to read the original books.
Why would an author hate a faithful adaptation to the source material?
Just stop.
Imagine if he had made it all open source. Yeah there would be garbage but a ton of new versions of it would have arisen, many that matched his views.
@anni.68 Sadly rings of power had too much corporate oversight and completely missed the entire point, making it too over complicated for no reason, yet also dumb for no reason. The hobbit suffered from similar issues trying to pad the run time and shove in a pointless love triangle and weird wood elf hierarchy, marring a great new character of Tauriel who didn't deserve any of that stupid writing taking away from the plot
@anni.68 While yes, there were love triangles, they had a point to them. This love triangle was shoe horned in with no purpose and added nothing to the story or plot other than corporate marketing deciding it was a plot point needed to appeal to a certain demographic they believed wouldn't come see the movie otherwise and if the makes something attempting to appeal to everyone, it becomes incredibly bland and generic, which is why most modern movies just suck, and it has nothing to do with diversity casting or wokeness and everything to do with marketing trumping creativity and what makes a good story as well as massively underpaying writing staff so anytime a big change is needed its up to the show runner and a handful of people who didn't write or love the script to fix it, instead of a whole writers room they used to have in the past where changes could be made to be at least somewhat coherent and rational.
Everything involving the dwarves in rings of power was great. I'd just watch a movie about that depiction of dwarves and have a great time. The Numenor were hit or miss, while the elves were all irrational, stupid and back shabby as hell. The point of this show is to never trust an elf. The show was dwarvish propoganda.
I watched to I think episode 8, then had it spoiled to me as to who Sauron was which was stupid and lazy on so many levels I just quit. The Harfoots were ok but added little to the story, just like with the human elf pairing which did little and should have either been their own show or not included at all because as you said overstuffed plotline. They needed to do them right or not at all.
I have no interest in watching season 2 thanks to the way it will most certainly just show you elves once again being assholes and doing stupid things someone who has lived a thousand years should know better not to do
@anni.68 As I said, I watched up to maybe episode 8 and stopped once I discovered who sauron was. It was a show that had a lot of potentially good elements that when it found it's footing it could be good. The fight against evil is the bare minimum, doesn't mean it's still very good. I'll have to see a lot more people I trust give such rave reviews on season 2 before I bother to watch it. So burnt out on this corporatized bad writing problem ruining all the great nerd franchises
@@anni.68 Well ok then
What he says about America is true to a point. However it is not true of us all. Speaking for myself, I will remain a Catholic "semi-hermit" and cling to my books. It seems to me that his writing was NEVER intended to be made into movies or tv shows. So far this sort of thing only makes his work a hollow, woke cartoon.
I think Tolkien's view on American culture was a bit shallow. There is that element that he rightfully criticized. Many of us criticize it ourselves. However, there is more depth here than what our idiotic media wants to depict.
They would prefer Tolkiens Vision to just be Tolkiens Version
i've never heard anyone mention christopher's hatred for the films, or discuss tolkien's probable agreement, but i've always thought that they completely gut the books. not only was the spiritual nature of the books ignored, but entire character arcs were altered without any understanding of what they meant (i've argued this on this channel before but theoden being changed from a legend who overcame depression to ride to war, to a random old man who got saved from one wizard's spell by another wizard's spell will never stop p*ssing me off), and even central aspects of the story were removed like the scouring of the shire, which was arguably the most important part of the entire trilogy. if you're going to make any kind of change to a book in order to adapt it into a movie, the absolute bare minimum is to understand the author's intentions and ensure that you still convey all the same themes and messages, as soon as you change the meaning of even one aspect of the story it's no longer the same story, and the only reason to make the movie at that point is for profit. it is true that tolkien and his estate are to blame for selling the rights, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's objectively wrong to do what peter jackson, amazon and all the rest have done to lotr. and before someone defends the films for being difficult to adapt, my response is that if it's not possible to adapt something into a film accurately then maybe it wasn't meant to be adapted? even if everything was identical (which is impossible with such a subtle story being translated to a far less subtle medium), there's still the simple fact that traditional fantasy stories are all about evoking the reader's imagination, putting it on a screen immediately removes the most fundamental part of the genre. if you're genuinely inspired by tolkien's work then write your own damn books, and try to remember that you're supposed to emulate his method (by which i mean you should carefully consider what you want to say and how) rather than copying his worldbuilding with zero understanding of what your own story means, brainless lotr clones are even worse than the films
Somewhat ironic that you apparently couldn't resist slipping in "funny" pot shots at Rings of Power in a rather immature manner: playing to your audience? That said, having been a serious fan of Tolkien for over 35 years now, I personally find that Rings of Power explores the deep spiritual and moral themes, or "substance", of Tolkien much better than Jackson did, especially if we include the latter's Hobbit trilogy which remains, in my opinion, the most unTolkienian adaptation thus yet produced (though shout-out to the excellent M4 fan edit). I fully agree that Amazon is a terrible corporation, etc., but we have to separate that dimension if we wish to approach the material in its own right. In that respect, it is worth mentioning (you don't) that one of the showrunners, J.D. Payne, is himself a strong believer. He may be Mormon rather than Catholic, but the input of someone of strong spiritual conviction is plain to see for anyone who doesn't approach the show primarily with insurmountable cynicism. If one is watching Rings of Power and coming away thinking it is "anti-traditionalist" then that is certainly because one is allowing oneself to be distracted by surface elements rather than because of how it explores moral themes (e.g. the balance between pride and humility or power and cooperation) which, in my perspective, has been thoroughly Tolkienian and indeed restores to the Middle-earth legacy one of the things Christopher Tolkien believed had been "eviscerated" from it: the "philosophical scope." But, like I suggested, in order to reach that level of appreciation, the beholder may first have to adjust their own eye.
Unfortunately, I think the narrator of video hit the nail on the head.
i personally would rather listen to a Lotr audio book than watch any of the movies.
I really love Tolkien and I totally agree with him on his political and Christian views. As a Swede I can see that everything he warned us about is becoming true. Europe is getting killed from within with mass consumption, Americanization, individualism, materialism, globalism, mass immigration and multiculturalism. Europe is slowly disappearing to become just a international shit hole with no identity and nothing that is special for Europe.
Awesome video btw! You are very good, keep the good work up man! 👍🙌
Its being done intentionally
The industrial age started with England
But when it came to the age of Tolkien, the United States played a paramount role as the driving force of capitalism and globalization during the Cold War, exerting unparalleled influence on the global stage.
I think Professor's Tolkien's understanding of the American culture is overly simplistic. Americans come from many other older cultures and their cultures still exist as strains and aspects of American cultures. BUT his critique of aspects of American culture being to wealth focused, and to materialistic are valid.
10:31 whats wrong with that
Is corporate greed destroying Tolkien's legacy? maybe. Not for those who read his books and stories. For those who are to lazy or stupid to read - yes. Do they hate Tolkien's legacy? No way! They love it because they can make money off it. Don't let your feelings about these corporations cloud your judgement.
Only one thing can be said....it's not looking good!!!! Either be it games, movies tv shows....these corporates don't care! Hell one would think that Lotr has ENORMOUS potential for video games and yet so far there has been so little actually good games that use the potential of the franchise!!! Hell amaozn MMO I'm not very optimistic about it! Hell one of the obvious choices to do would be to have a proper open world single player RPG set in this universe...and there has been none of that so far! A high quality lotr game like that would require a lot of passion, knowledge of the lore and how to utilize it in boht story and gameplay...and yet it would seem so easy on other hand...since Tolkien already did the most of the job for them!!!!!!! The example of the Witcher games shows how a developer studio can show a true passion for source material while making a game....that sort of approach is greatly needed for proper good lotr games!! Hell there is so much that one could do and they always screw it! Even if a lotr game wouldn't be particularly innovative in gameplay one could imagine them doing a good and most important lore faithful project that would be enjoyable....hell a Lotr game in style of Elder Scrolls, Dragon Age, Gothic or at least as Hogwarts Legacy, an open world immersive sandbox that would remain respectful of Tolkien's creative vision and allow us to venture into his world.....a lotr game that would be a sandbox in style of say,...Red Dead Redemption 2 for that freedom to live in this world with high quality graphics and physics allowing to enjoy the beauty of Middle-earth and some of it's realism! Or heck....even copy Assassin's Creed formula (it has been done somewhat already though with very lore breaking Shadow of Mordor and it's sequel) and model on the later titles to make something like.....AC Black Flag, mixed with Odyssey, Origins and Valhalla best elements...at least allowing us to explore the Middle-earth in proper way, and with sailing and naval combat hehehe imagine sea battles with ships of Corsairs of Umbar!!! :) Now that would be something.....as for other media....well after disaster of Amazon tv show and the upcoming animation War of the Rohirrim being no doubt twisted with agenda and messaging I have no hopes for any other movie projects!!!!!!!! These 'adapttions' are almost always getting worse and worse and worse.....hell Peter Jackson film trilogy was a lightning in the bottle and even it wasn't as perfect in some adaptational changes being done and so on.....but still the next projects were only steadily getting worse...Hobbit films...the show....so yeah the entire commercialization is a good point....though one would think that in sane world it could be done maintaining the artistic integrity.....hell Tolkien mentioned it either adopt policy of Art or Cash!!! But in the modern cynical world full of bullcrap well I can't see it done properly!!!!!!!
Tolkien would have loathed what Peter Jackson did with The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit. Jackson's adaptations were abysmal, and unfortunately only the tip of the iceberg.
Don't worry. Tolkien will live on, but nobody will remember this new garbage even existed.
Bad adaptations do not destroy the original work.
Agreed. The original material will always be there waiting for people to discover it.
They do. The adaptations crowd out the originals from the market. There are people who have never known Tolkien's text and based everything off the Jackson movies - and therefore, are convinced that pipe-weed is marijuana.
Correct them with references from the text, and they begin abusing book fans.
Asimov's "Foundation" was all about collaborative study, planning, intelligence, knowledge, the fate of the galaxy, human patterns... and AppleTV+'s adaptation have turned it into "magic psychic girl will save the empire".
Doctor Who's first producer said the scripts were intended for whole families and intelligent children, would never talk down to children. Now the Doctor is supposedly an "avatar for the modern audience" and the show is pivoting to "fantasy" rather than science-fiction. And when talking about the foolishness of the modern characters, defenders say "it's always been like that" and cite ONLY THE MODERN SEASONS, never the original seasons.
Bad adaptations CROWD OUT the original work until it's unknown.
Well, Tolkien himself chose to sell those rights in 1969. After that day, he no longer had any say in what was done with them. Instead, he was 100,000 pounds more wealthy. That's the decision he made.
Well George Martin does claim to admire him doesn't he
@@KipIngram a decision he was forced into by a brutal tax bill
I see on the comments why racists and xenophobes love Lord of the Rings. Maybe Tolkien would like them, considering how conservative he was but I won't throw away the books. On the other hand, I can't stand the Amazon series, I find them even worse.
Racist and xenophobe are nonsense words and no one who uses them like this is worth being taken seriously
Corporate greed? Oh, if it were only something so prosaic. The truth I fear is far more malevolent.
14:39, the answer is obvious ... taking a look into both trilogies Peter Jackson didn't respected the cannon writings by Tolkien changing the story as whatever he pleased, obviously a film like such is just an adaptation, being so loyal to the book can result in a cumber-stone adaptation, but the case of the Hobbit is far beyond to what was suppose to be .. let's be honest, the ring as per Tolkien writing is money and today the money is what rules the world even films, and Tolkien foresaw this behavior.
Is it a problem for a country to be a melting pot?
It's not about America being a "melting pot," but losing their Christian moral values and being consumed by moralless capitalism and consumerism.
It is well represented in [The Great Gatsby] by F. Scott Fitzgerald.
I love Token and I love his works. The stories of the first ages are some of the best stories I have read, but in my opinion, Token and his son, as well as the fanboys of his works, suffer from two problems. The first is megalomania and false elevation over others (philosophical, moral, and spiritual elevation), and the essence of this elevation is his works. The Lord of the Rings in particular, that is, they overloaded these works and tried to make them higher than they were (some people might say his mind is living an experience similar to a prophet or a religious leader). The second problem is that he produced works for young people in the first place without knowing that and refusing to do so. He admits this thing. He is simply very arrogant and happy with his works to the point that he does not see anyone reading them or caring about them. He suffered from this problem throughout his life until he died, and now Fanboy is suffering from it. Token created a world for young revolutionary leftists (it is possible to say that he is even a hippie). Without knowing it, his works did not attract the demographic he was hoping for. For this reason, Token died almost isolated from most of his fans and the lovers of the world he created, and he was content with communicating with a simple elite of them, (his favorite demographic). For this reason, there is always, it can be said, ideological hostility. Between him or those who claim to defend the essence of his works and between the general public or even the rest of his fans...an additional thing I want to say is that Token is a morally and philosophically stilted person to the point of irritation and hypocrisy at times. I think that he suffered, especially after the success of the works of The Lord of the Rings, from a complex of greatness and Purity, and I fear that some of you are beginning to suffer from it
1) please spell the name right
2) please use line breaks in your text
3) he originally wrote his books FOR HIS CHILDREN
4) he absolutely wasn't a hippie, he was a conservative, he compared himself to the Hobbits directly
I'm not sure a single thing you've said is even slightly correct or true.
@@troffle First, he did not write the legends as a whole for his children, just Hobbit, and when he finished publishing The Lord of the Rings, he modified the Hobbit to fit the events of the world. Second, I know that he is a conservative Christian. I was talking about the demographic that was attracted to his world (hippies). Third, in addition to what I said about his isolation. Regarding most of his fans (which, by the way, was true, search for it and verify it) My entire comment is an opinion. It is superficial for you to respond to me with the phrase “This is not true.” People have the right to share their critical opinions regarding your beloved author. Fourth, English is not my first language. I have problems with expression. Also, when I talk about Tolkien, I say token , as a simplification of writing again, English is not my first language
@@walidmohammed2796 Yes, I was referring to the Hobbit. My only problem with your expression is you not using more line breaks in your text, that has nothing to do with language.
The WOKE.
I mean everyone agrees that corporations suck but man I find Tolkiens negative generalization of us as, well I’m not gonna say offensive, I mean he’s dead so why should I care? But such a negative view of an entire group of people is something I wouldn’t have expected of him.
You seem to fail to see that your famous movie trilogy was no different than the new shit. You all killed his work and legacy by hailing my most hated movies. Like Christoper Tolkien I can only look away. Nothing left to do.
How about instead of pushing an agenda we just leave the books alone. We don’t need new content just watch the movies, as much as we can blame the producers. People have been begging for LOTR content as well, we’re better off with the originals and that’s all we’re getting and that’s okay too.
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Christopher's opinion on the movies is insanity
Christopher's opinion is the only one that holds any weight. The rest is just noise.
As much as I enjoy the movies, Christopher was 100% right, and I understand his view even more as time passes.
And then there's Simon Tolkien's opinion on the movies ...
@@RoseBaggins Simon is a TINO if ever there was one.
I hate Jackson's Trilogy as well as it destroyed not just Tolkien's themes but killed His characters.
Thr ring is capitalism..
Tolkien was 100% right. And @seancrane1431 is right too - there are those of us here in America who recognize the darkness of the direction of culture has moved in.