B-1 Pilot Makes $456M Mistake!
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- The Air Force lost a B-1 bomber in a fiery crash in January and the recently released accident investigation board report offers several shocking details about what happened!
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Hoover I've been flying for 55 years. I currently am fortunate enough to own and fly a Citation. I find your debriefs are some of the best safety information available. Can't thank you enough for what must be an incredible amount of work to produce these.
Thank you! It's definitely a lot of work, but I don't mind doing it!
Retired today, 52 years, aircraft maintenance. Plenty of time to follow now. Great video.
Convradulations, I hope to be able go get to where you are one day, and be proud and content that I did something fulfilling with ny life as you.
@@PrayedForYou Thank you very much. You can do it.
Congratulations on your retirement. Keep active and enjoy the fruits of your labors!
Congrats on your retirement. Doing ANYTHING for 52 years is quite an accomplishment!
Wow, as a former USAF flight safety officer, this one is a real eye opener.
Can you educate us/me on what happens to a pilot's USAF career after crashing a half billion $ plane due to fundamental failure to follow procedure? Will they allow him to fly anything at all after such a huge failure? If so, what?
@@LionAndALamb it’s been several years since I retired, but if the accident investigation process determined negligence on the pilots fault, he or she would face a flight evaluation board or FEB. The results of that FEB could include permanent removal from flight status.
@@FamilyofFour30 Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience.
What a total disaster from leadership down to every single person in that organization. I flew B1 with my weight at 170 lbs 6’ height…I can’t image back in my day seeing a pilot at 260 lbs. The lack of standards across our services is ridiculous. Signed 3000+ flying hours.
This is not the first recent case of a military pilot injured during ejection, because his weight was outside the specs - don't these guys realize that being overweight can get them seriously hurt or even killed in an accident?
Have you seen the recruits at boot camp? Jfc, yikes. I wasn't a perfect sailor, but I didn't have purple hair, a nose ring, and didn't need remedial math for school. As a plus, I knew what sex I was and accepted it.
Fat lives matter bro
They wouldn’t even let a dentist get to 260 when I was in.
DEI
What I don't understand is how **ANYONE** could get complacent when flying a HALF-BILLION dollar aircraft.
Easy. It's not their money.
I used to work as an engineer in the petrochemical industry where the potential incident costs in terms of money, lives, impact on people are huge - and people do get complacent. “We’ve done this so many times before and it was always ok….” We were taught that whenever a task has a change that wasn’t what you planned for (like the flight being delayed) you need to stop and go through your planning again and see what impact that has…
@@KutWrite That's it in a nutshell I guess, but it's also their lives and careers.
@@PhillipAlcock Yeah we humans are very fallible creatures who fall into bad habits easily. It's scary though because the dire need for competence just goes up as the world and technology progresses, but we are relying more and more on AI/automation to do our thinking for us.
@@PhillipAlcocklives are cheap. Especially to the rich and conservatives.
Please support this man's work
Thanks!
Who? Mine? Thanks bud!
@@PaxRaeKi-cw4gj no, mine.
I work in a hospital, and I see the degradation of protocol with horror.
I have just left a job where the culture was to be flippant with safety, and disregard people like me - because I was really experienced, in favour of younger, excited and confident go getters.
Don't get me wrong, I am totally in favour of training the next generation, but often the correct type of training will involve responsibility and respect for - as in our case, patients.
I was constantly scared of how good, talented people were unintentionally complicit with the degradation of values, simply because they were young and inexperienced and were listening to people who were leading them to poor practices.
Thanks Hoover,
Great pod cast.
🌹
My Mother was a Nurse for over 30 years. By 2000 she had had enough with the Medical Field. She said she was deeply ashamed at the state of care by then. She said Medicine turned from a CARE Industry into a FOR PROFIT BUSINESS!
The Bottom Line became more important then curing/helping/caring for PEOPLE at the worst time(s) of their Lives!
It’s DEI period
@@bananawatch8158 🙄🥱
I worked with white people.
👋 Bye!
Its why other countries have great healthcare for literally $5 a month. USA is 1st in infant deaths & 33rd in health care. Can you name 32 countries?
Its why other countries have great healthcare for literally $5 a month. USA is 1st in infant deaths & 33rd in health care. Can you name 32 countries?
Who knows how many lives you have saved, Sir.
Great work. Keep it up. 👍
Many thanks!
I wonder how much "Get there itis" impacted the decision to land here. The crews wanted to land, and go home after a long day right after a long holiday break. They did NOT want to land at another airport a long way from home.
that was my thought - a classic case of "get-home-itis" combined with how many organizations frown upon crews that divert.
I think there was also a desire not to look stupid in front of each other as it slowly dawned on each crewmember that they didn't do their homework.
I'm 6'1" and during my time in the Air Force, the maximum weight for my height was around 195 lbs. Go beyond that and you were on the "fat boy" program. Was that 260 lb pilot extremely tall?
Yep, same here. 260? How the hell did he even fit in the seat?
The weight limit would include the pilot plus all the gear he is wearing. He did not weigh 260 by himself.
@@Mr172 - I think he did weight 260. about 4 minutes before the end of the video Hoover said the pilot "self reported" his weight as 245. So think he had been pushing the limit for a while.
My nephew is 6’ 4” absolute solid unit of a college football player with arms thick as heads and thighs big as waists and he’s 240 pounds. This pilot was just plain fat, and no business self-identifying his weight shoehorning himself into billion dollar military planes.
@@Mr172 They weighed him after the accident, he was 260 lbs without gear.
Another RUclips host has done a shorter presentation of this mishap. This one is much more comprehensible. I spent 8 of my 20 years in the Army flying helicopters, and I am stunned at the multiple failures in this accident. Command and staff supervision, insufficient. Weather service, insufficient. Comms, insufficient. All four crewmen failed when doing their jobs properly was a matter of life and death. I see the IP (who was effectively the aircraft commander) as the biggest failure. He let the upgrading pilot get into a dangerous situation and failed in both his copilot duties and aircraft commander duties. He didn't ensure than either of the systems officers did their jobs either. And the medicos let him slide by allowing him to self-affirm that his weight was within his waiver standards. Long duty-day didn't help. Is this level of sloppiness common throughout the USAF?
"Is this level of sloppiness common throughout the USAF" - it is over the past 20-30 years after the military was gutted in the early 90s. Had LeMay still been around, several of these officers would have left his office as Lieutenants.
I'd answer, "Yes, the AF gets some of the most intelligent hires, but fails to fully train them". These Days, the AF is too concerned about DEI and Political Correctness, and not concerned enough about ensuring their instructors are excellent at instructing. Sloppy. But I'd say, that this is too true in all of the American military, not unique to the AF. Everyone seems to have additional goals beyond excellence in performance ... things like DEI, cliques, being "cool", not offending the immoral, not tolerating the moral, dissipative "fun", promoting the latest pagan politically correct behavior, etc. All humans are prone to dissipate their potential excellence.
This dei nonsense is stupid and exhausting. And frankly insulting to the hard working people of color that defend this country. This crash is complex and has many tentacles, but the idea that dei is one of them is preposterous.
@@guygifford Just the fact that we have cross-dressing perverts strolling around in uniform makes me want to puke.
@@guygiffordAt least the aircraft is still painted black and not yet wearing a rainbow paintjob.
I watch because I like how you present and am fascinated by logical conclusions. Thank you for your desire for honesty, :)
I appreciate that!
260 lbs what?? Was he the pilot or the payload?
Yes. Both.
Not to fat shame, but he's in uniform. A little time on the StairMaster is in order.
Fat boy club
@@michaelmoorrees3585 By the time you've gotten to 260, it's time for an intervention. Stair master isn't going to do it. He need someone to chain the fridge closed.
@@michaelmoorrees3585 When you are sitting in an election seat that has a weight rating of 211lbs and you need to be at or below that for it to work flawlessly and for you to live, and you weigh over 260lbs, you absolutely DO need to be fat shamed!!
One thing that was never mentioned of which we always discussed was divert base, and checking weather for that base in preflight brief. A B-52 very offensive Crewdog.
Glad everyone onboard survived. Staggering amount of failures of the entire USAF system, in a low-stress, normal weather and operations non-combat situation. How bad must the command and control, initial and refresher training, crew resource management, situational awareness, coordination between air crew and ATC, and virtually any other aspect of performance management be to enable an accident like this in a nearly half-billion dollar asset to occur.
The point was made that this was a very low ceiling and very low visibility situation. This aircraft may not have ever come out of the cloud before it was too late.
Uggh! As a 30k hour (now retired) heavy jet captain, that’s pretty nasty stuff. So many holes in the cheese, so many things missed that could have changed the outcome. This is NOT what I’d expect from a highly trained crew, more like what I might expect from a dodgy 3rd world mob. 😕
What type of jets did you fly?
More holes than cheese. Good thing we don't need a defensive military and associated readiness.
@@user-tv5dt3nm9y yea this giys full of it lmao 🤣
😢 RIP 0085. Was a crew chief there from 2004-2008.
We were stationed at Ellsworth from 1967-1975. Dad retired after twenty years and we hightailed out in a blizzard.
🫡 0085🫡😢
Geewiz, total lack of communication on all levels...everyone flying by the seat of their pants.
Literally
Like the other 3 forgot, they were on the same plane.
That's how I fly on the PC! The only flying I do btw! Gidday from nz!
A lot of that going around these days. #SecretCervix
Greetings: "seat of pants" skill is a good thing. The training, however incompetent, neglects this redundancy.
Definitely looks like a culture of complacency. It reflects very badly on the US Airforce.
Not only mentally but physically a 258 pound pilot? WTF
@@bigwaidave4865 Some pilot that shouldn't have even been cleared by the flight surgeon is allowed into the cockpit. It says everything about procedures, protocol, and professionalism. I hope the entire squadron was grilled and drilled about doing things by the book.
G'day,
Well, y' know what the US Popular Culture has grown to become...(?).
What used to be a Nation which was mostly proud of being, if anything...,
"Pius" and "God-Fearing"...
(to the proverbial fault...) - say, before 1940...(-ish) ; has become a
Kulture marinating it's
Children & Youth & Adults in a
Triumphalist perspective - which could fairly be described as
Proudly condescending,
Arrogant, smug, complacent,
Hubristic..., and feeling
Safe & Secure in the unquestioned
Received Wisdom which has
Stressed their
Entitlement to
Rely on having
"God(theory) On Their Side"...;
So that
Whatever they may
Choose to do,
Here on Earth -
Their God(theory)
WILL duly sign-off on their
Doings,
REGARDLESS of whatever they may in fact choose so to do...
- BECAUSE they have
(The Universal Creator)
God(THEORY)
ON their
"Side..." (!).
These Clowns were
Unstrapping their Gloves & pulling off their
Helmets, while low & slow & sinking below the Glideslope
On
Final
Approach...
They were all behaving
As if
The Flight were already
Safely completed -
As they
"Went through the motions"
Of being duly diligent...;
While actually paying attention to
Other
Things
Entirely.
Which, to them, in their
Self-righteously fervid little
Mindsets ; was apparently
Perfectly
"A.-O.K....!"
Because
With
The (Universal Creator)
God(Theory) of
"Thou Shalt NOT Kill...!"
Being SOMEHOW
Assumed to be
(mysteriously and counterintuitively...)
"On the 'Side' of" those people onboard being
Paid to train to fly a
Fossil-Fuel-burning
Nukeyoulater Attack Bomber...; while
Practicing to be thus rather more adept in getting Bombs
On-Target.
They ALL got a big
SHOCK to find that
The Universal Creator
Godtheory, upon due consideration - was rolling an
Unweighted Dice
On them & their
Life-Outcomes.
Psalm-singing
Overconfident complacent
Blasphemous Hypocrites ;
OFTEN thus have to
PoLice all their own
Worst
Impulses...
Such is life,
Ciao !
I am a former aviation safety officer. It seems that these Swiss cheese holes have been appearing and expanding in most of the world's startups, like an oil spill spreading across the sea and staining all organizations (remember the recent Boeing accidents and failures due to cultural changes in one of the safest aircraft manufacturers in the world).
@@astircalix4126 The honest truth is, covid destroyed a lot of things. No services are as good as they were before covid. One big difference is that people just simply decided they can do what they want now, and not get fired. And in WAAAY too many cases they are right.
That might have been the best prepared live-stream I've ever seen. Fantastic job. Clearly, you approach your side-gig with as much care and attention to detail as your flying - This was basically indistinguishable between your normal pre-recorded debriefs. With your live delivery this polished, I imagine you don't need to do nearly as much editing before publishing as (I, for one) would have expected given their own quality. Thanks for doing what you do. Blue skies.
Someone else did a report on this mishap. There were a ton of contributing factors that led to the mishap but at the end of the day they forgot to fly the airplane. I would rather float down the runway and maybe have to do a go around rather than belly flop the damn thing short of the runway.
Mover
Does the aircraft have GPWS that annunciates "sink rate....sink rate....sink rate"?
sounds like a case of "get-home-itis". Some pilots will do anything including dangerous things to prevent having to divert and sleep somewhere else, not to mention that some organizations frown upon diverts = $$
might want to make the approach speed 5 knotts higher, cos of the weight differnece.
Seems to me that there was an attitude of "it's the PF's check ride, let them fly the plane solo so the check airman can evaluate them." Would the other 3 aboard have behaved differently and taken a more active role in the flight, if it had been a routine mission without the CRM shift due to the evaluation?
The worst thing is these pilots may be flying airliners soon.
When a petrol tanker driver for Shell we had Dupont safety seminars which required us to individually identify daily routines focusing on potentially hazardous scenarios in our ordinary lives. I have since made it a practice to do that using the 'what if' principle prior to undertaking a task. Surprising how many people will lift something heavy before deciding how and where to place it. Watching tv where patients are being treated in ER for various injuries it's apparent that very many people give scant regard to safe options prior to tackling even simple tasks.
Observe think act
That’s what I always drilled into my kids.
Bill S., told me, in grad school at UC-Davis, he thought that many people operated on the “ready fire aim” principle, even researchers.
Remember it's the bottom quintile of the bell curve which makes life difficult for the rest of us (or maybe even the bottom half).
Recent B-1 pilot. AIB director is a dishonest and vindictive Air Force careerist. The report completely missed the mark and should be dismissed. I’ve watched him destroy the careers of his subordinates just to protect himself.
Instead of focusing on some obscure NOTAM maybe address the elephant in the room. The aviators aren’t given enough resources to stay proficient. During my career I watched the monthly flying requirements decrease by over 50% due to how difficult it is to get hours. Additionally manning is extremely low, which is why someone would be sitting FOX-3. As many Air Force pilot can attest, the amount of non flying duty requirements take away from the focus of flying. Lastly, the Air Force is unable to retain experienced aviators resulting in a bathtub of inexperience in the squadron. When I left the B-1 with 2,700 hours there was only 1 other person in the squadron with over 1,000 hours.
Ellsworth has no cowboy culture. The pilots screwed up. Everyone is doing the best with the resources they have. And if anyone has a toxic culture, it is the AIB director. Ask him about how he completely destroyed the morale of his squadron on deployment by not supporting his subordinates. He is a careerist that only cares about the next rank and calling out Big Air Force would only hurt him.
Your debriefs are comforting to watch even though they aren't comfortable at all. Knowing the outcome and oftentimes deadly consequences of mistakes made by pilots with varying levels of experience and knowledge makes me realize that every time we try to defy gravity that we are up against physical principles that are always against ignorance and careless behavior.
With 60 years of flying under my belt, I am still interested in your clear and interesting analysis!!
There was an old story from an elderly family friend named Lorne who worked as a mechanic for the Canadian Air force long ago. He mentioned a true story of a new mechanic who thought the eject handles would not work on ground with the jet off. He was wrong and ejected himself into the ceiling of the hangar.
What sets off the escape sequence is essentially the trigger on a gun. You don't need electrical power to shoot a gun.
That happened too many times in the USAF. A mistake you only get to make once.
But why would he press them anyway, though? 😬😅 The call of the void
there are many true stories about when a handgun wont fire................ the guy looks down into the barrel and tries it again !!!!!!!!!!
how about some details before this gets relegated to 'another story'
Why did this happen? It started back in 1991 when SAC was eliminated. Lack of "attention to detail" started to slowly take hold.
enWOKEned military ? => aZzzleep ? @ the joystick
All of society is like this now - there's a pervasive attitude of "meh", with people getting offended when you expect them to do their jobs or show some common courtesy and that no one should ever be held accountable. In the town I live in there's been an epidemic of car crashes with a huge number of them people running red lights and stop signs - people don't even bother to look anymore with an attitude of "I've been living here 17 years!" as if stop signs have an expiration date.
@@clownshow5901People in small towns around where I live almost never use turn signals. They figure everyone else in town already knows they go to the cafe a 9am etc.
Ah, you need to look back at all of the accidents that occurred when the Strategic Air Command existed. Plenty, and some quite bad and avoidable.
Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. Ponytail brigade.
Appreciate your approach to analyzing aircraft accidents.
Sounds like four janitors that were working nights said hey let's go get the keys to one of those B-1s and go for a Joy ride .
Thank you, Hoover, for your expert analysis of this event. IMHO your videos are some of the best and most informative on RUclips and they never disappoint. As a former Marine and private pilot I have the utmost respect and appreciation for you and all your hard work. Semper fi!
My roommate was a B-1 Nav during desert storm. It would break his heart to listen to this debrief.
@@scottgray493 Yes
I APPRECIATE your attention to the details when discussing accidents; from the pilot’s demeanor, what they were doing prior to and after the accident certainly takes time, it takes effort, it costs more for the overall surveillance whether directly or indirectly, you typically don’t; have any control over the actions. You have a very good sense, flight-sense that is, and reiterating my thoughts, you do an excellent job and I enjoy listening! So, here is the outcome of MY review, 5-1/2 thumbs UP.
Hello Hoover!! Thank you very much for this accident coverage. I fly a King Air 350 out of Montrose and Telluride Colorado, single pilot. This is a great reminder to stay vigilant, check out all information available, maintain the standards, and always have an out.
Safe flying!
Hoover, thank you for all you do for the flying community. I have learned quite a bit from these debriefs. While tragic, it is good to learn from the events. In this one, you finally, after 40 years answered a question I've had as to why I was told I'd never be able to fly certain aircraft when I talked to a recruiter in college. I'm 6'2 and was about 225-230 at the time, now the questions he didn't answer make sense. I cracked up when you said FOX 3 with regard to a B-1, all I was thinking was, "when and why did they arm them and what does it have to do with this?" Then I kept listening and chuckling at that part. Thanks again.
Not the only crash at Ellsworth. April 1970, our father was standing on the ramp with toolbag in hand waiting to work on B-52D 55-0089. To this day I still remember seeing it on final and the smoke.
Another B1 had crashed right outside Ellsworth when I think the landing gear caught on something. Little fuzzy on the details.
There was another B-1 that went down after encountering a flock of large birds while flying a low-level mission. The birds penetrated the wing, at an inadequately protected location, causing a total hydraulic failure. Four crew members ejected, but an evaluator was on board, sitting in a seat with no ejection capability. The crew survived, but the evaluator had to ride it into the crash. I think they reinforced the hinge area of the wing as a fix.
Sounds like the crash that occurred on the LaJunta bomb range at LaJunta, CO. That range runs from north to south from the IP. I always thought that bomb range was cursed when I was in SAC.
I told everyone at work about your channel..very interesting. I am a truck driver and I knew another truck driver at the beginning of my (2002)career that was killed in a single vehicle accident(2006).He hit a construction vehicle jackknifed not anticipating a second construction vehicle just ahead of the other,he was the only person injured.His cab completely burned with him inside before anyone could get him out,he had been driving since the 1960s and was an Air Force veteran.
There's a reason for callout's, double checks and triple checks and if you ask me this was an accident waiting to happen. How are these guys allowed to fly when deviating from the SOP's? Either poor training and comprehension or just plain complacency and laziness. Higher heads need to roll on this one.
they'll get fired but just move on to another post and retire on schedule and pull that check for the next 40 years. Had LeMay been still around, not only would that entire crew have been in his office before the end of the day, but several of them would have left as Lieutenants.
I did the math, NONE of these crewmen were getting sufficient training as a pattern. They were barely flying more than 10 hours per MONTH for the entire time they were in the B1. They were at absolute minimums for training. As we like to say, your best shooting in an emergency will never be better than you worst day at the range. If your training is lacking then your actual work will suffer. Big boy didn't gain that extra 50 pounds in 6 months so when was the last time he went on a scale. We did it every 6 months. I would have been on the fat boy program if I wasn't near max PT score at the time.
Ironically, an almost identical accident happened back in about 1988/89 at the same AFB, involving the same aircraft type; a B-1. That one was caused by the AC succumbing to an optical illusion that led him into descending short of the runway threshold, where a wing clipped a sign post well short of the runway. None of the rest of the crew did anything to back him up that time either. The entire crew ejected and all survived. Even more ironically, the crew involved was the S1 (lead stan-eval crew)!
I remember this well because we in the KC-10 community were in the process of qualifying our crews for ILS Cat II approaches. This was abruptly cancelled when, as a result of this accident, SAC mandated 300-1 as the lowest minimums for the entire command.
I did ATC in USAF, for mobility grouo. We were deployed to all bases w/B-1's due to crashing short of rwy. Was said to be ILS problem w/B-1.We provided PAR approaches/radar monitoring on final. Seems they are still having issues, whether it is pilot error/a/c.
With respect, this is an example of a coincidence, not irony.
This is a common situation, for people to incorrectly refer to something as ironic when it isn't. If it is of any consolation I still struggle with the definition of the word irony even after years of reviewing it, especially with providing examples. It seems that it shouldn't be so difficult for me but its just one of those things. You will probably have better luck with it than I have. Best regards...
Seems like I remember that the B1 originally didn't even have an ILS receiver/display when that accident happened. If so, they could only do non-precision approaches. Seems like in that accident they mistakenly went below minimum approach altitude on the approach. I may be wrong on that.
😅@@CRSolarice
Really like the longer, more detailed format. In this case I think the holes lined up in the cheese were the individuals, of a variety of ranks and responsibilities, letting standards laps. That is the responsibility of Command.
Loved the live stream! It's like beeing sat in the room with you, sir. Thanks for that!
I was in the Pattern at Ellsworth AFB when the B-1B crashed in January 18, 1987, in very similar crash & atmospheric conditions. I was EC-135 Navigator at Ellsworth w/ 1000+ Hours. Runway 13 is a much less used runway because of prevailing winds, thus pilots would be less experienced with it. In my experience, the AF doesn't do as good a job training aircrew as they should, because of their hurry to rush them through training. The "Drinking from a Fire-hose" analogy was often used. It goes back to flight crew instructors not being trained as well as they should be. How is that? If the check flights went smoothly, if the student got lucky, the students passed on only one check, without anyone seeing the weaknesses, which hadn't come up on the flight. Rather than the check being a series of 3 check rides. I don't blame the OSO or DSO for their lack of being properly trained WITH THE PILOTS to be more involved in backing up the pilots. Likely, had the B-1 not crashed, the OSO would have passed a check on this flight. The Pilots and the back-up crew are not adequately trained to not only call out MDA/DH ... I often didn't call these out in good weather, and I was never corrected for it. Moreover, THE BACK-UP CREWMAN CALLING THE MDA/DH DOESN'T GET TRAINED TO DEMAND THAT THE PILOT DOESN'T CONTINUE DESCENDING BENEITH MINIMUMS !!! BACK-UP CREWMEN NEED TO BE TAUGHT THAT THEY MUST CALL "GO AROUND" IF THE MINIMUMS ARE BREACHED !!! Yet, in reality, pressure from the commander to save fuel, and to get as many T&Gs as possible, etcetera, makes the OSOs call-out seem like back-ground noise to the pilots, rather than EXPTREMELY SERIOUS. The OSO looking at the DSOs altimeter for a difference, might be excusable. Notice that the DSO has no requirement to Call-out any minimum, thus, he's not used, and seemingly not valuable for approaches! The DSO should be required and tested on calling Go-Around if the aircraft descends below minimums by 5 feet. Notice that OSO should be required to call MDA/DH a number of feet above MDA/DH to stop the decent before mins. The rush to train aircrew to the minimum standard is a problem of the AF. Crewmen should be trained and tested above minimum standards. // Sadly, minimum expectations and training work, until they don't, because of min weather, and missed items. // My crew had to divert to Offutt AFB because of the "yard sale" of B-1 parts scattered across the approach end, because the B-1 in 1987 descended below mins to see the runway. Thankfully, all that crew also lived. But the navigators/OSO/DSO should be more incorporated into piloting the aircraft ... and training for all should be higher with less rush and more excellence! Great video! Add some pictures from the 1987 crash! and incorporate that crash into this so similar crash.
I was assistant crew chief on 0297 probably pulled alert with you at some point there. A buddy of mine had done the preflight on that B1 that crashed in 88 , he was pretty shaken up when he stopped by my room later on that night. By the way Whatever happened to Hollywood, and Coach ?
I am astonished that a pilot with 257 hrs total time is being upgraded to Aircraft Commander! I spent 20 yrs in USMC KC-130’s and most of our co-pilots had more than 1000 hrs for upgrade!
Wow, no wonder why so many pilots join the Air Force!
Complacency, complacency, complacency, not to mention a serious lack of communication. 1/2 $Billion up in smoke.
Basically rest of the team telling training pilot you are on your own good luck son!
This Canadian toured Ellsworth base and the missle silo. Such an expensive mistake. Hoover is awesome at these stories! 👍👍👍👍
Back in the early 70’s I was a controller at Minot AFB. The GCA always backed up approaches. I recall a B-52 that near DH on a night ILS went left of course and was not correcting. I quickly advised the pilot that if the rwy or apc lights not in site to execute a MA. The aircraft made the correction, called the lights and was able to land. The pilot on roll out thanked me, then when it cleared the runway he called me again to thank me. If we did not have a GCA I wonder it too would also have hit the dirt.
The Air Force fired the commander of the 28th Operations Group, just over a week after an accident report into a crash in January criticized the command for creating a “culture of noncompliance.”
Col. Derek C. Oakley, 28th Bomb Wing commander, relieved Col. Mark Kimball, head of the 28th Operations Group, of command on Friday, Aug. 2, due to “a loss of trust and confidence in his ability to command,” according to Air Force Global Strike Command. That term is used by various military branches as a generic reason for why commanders are fired. In this case, the decision comes only a week after the Air Force’s own internal report on the crash of a B-1B bomber was released.
Why do they have to wait until the accident report came out. Why not fire the guy for lack of military leadership. I am willing to be this guy played all the DEI game to 100% compliance and he could never got fired without repercussion from the political press. So the AF waited until this disastrous accident and then used it as a reason to fire him.
@@2Phast4RocketThat is quite a large extrapolation.
@@2Phast4RocketThis is political grandstanding.
@@2Phast4RocketWhatever news channel you’re watching is rotting your brain…🤦🏻♂️
He'll just move on to another position and retire on schedule, pulling that paycheck for another 40 years. If LeMay had been still around, not only would that entire crew have been in his office before the end of the day, but several of them would have left as Lieutenants.
Plane crashes covered in debriefs have included everyone from 18 year old rogue pilots, liars claiming competency, good pilots making errors and relatively highly trained multi-member crews lacking communication, compliance to rules and showing complacency.
What is so ironic is that airline passengers board planes knowing nothing about the piloting crew, whether procedures were carefully followed, and they often accept the fact of delays due to mechanical issues and that doesn’t even raise a red flag like, “do I even want to be on this flight?”
I haven’t flown for years as a passenger.
Hoover, This was excellent coverage, thank you.
When I was a crew chief in the Air Force, I never got just a slap on the wrist if I made a mistake. Simply messing up on the documenting in the 781 forms would result in yelling, LoCs/LoRs, 12 hour shifts, weekend duty, disqualification on task, etc. Making a mistake on a maintenance task was a nightmare in itself. I got an article 15 just for not 'waxing' a canopy after a wash. LOL. You pilots had it easy, and still do. Crew chiefs would make for perfect pilots.
This was our Rockwell Internation North American Aviation B-1B fuselage #67 delivered in 1987. Each aircraft $180 million, $210 million with all support items to go with. As delivered was 1.7 mach maximum safe cruising speed down from 2.7 from B-1A. Was stealth when delivered down to 6 inch cross section, was fully nuclear capable with full EMP. All B-1Bs delivered from US Air Force Plant 42, site one where the Space Shuttle Assembly bldg. is located. Plane originally designed for 10 years use with expansion capable built in, to be updated and used 10 more years. Plane was devalued along the way reducing speed and capabilities to conventional only. $40 million of purchase price is the 4 GE augmented engines, original exhaust cones much sexier than the replacements.
This is all info you should not be posting here. I am a crew chief and your comment was mentioned in a OPSEC meeting we had.
Wow, the old adage is evidently right! An ounce of knowledge could be deadly! Any wannabe Little Rocket Man or a Winnie the Poo lookalike can take this new info that you just shared, change up their lead times and elevations accordingly, and begin picking off these birds. You go, boy!!!
Those speed numbers for both the A and B are considerably higher than the numbers listed in other sources that I've seen.
NAA......... Rockwell.................. the guys who built X 15, Apollo........ and many many great machines. Thank you, David D !!!!!
@@user-rq9ys4ki6qyou’re correct. Although those numbers have been in Aviation Leak and Space Technology for decades. But nobody should be posting data like that here. The plane is basically obsolete as a weapons system because subs can get there faster with more stealth. But until it decommissioned there’s no reason to post that data . I’m proud of this enlisted Air Force Non Com
Wow they MacGyvered a whole visibility fix? 🙄 And yes someone needed to be brave enough to tell that pilot you're too fat to fly!
100%. Check your diet or no check ride.
There was an old polka song that went…”I don’t want her you can have her, she’s too fat for me.”
Felon 02, you can have him….
In the US Air Force they call it the chunky chicken program. Get weight back to spec or get out. This guy is way over; does that imply a medical condition?
@@rdlawrence1473 yes oce. Obsessive compulsive eating.
A pilot that weighed 260 lbs? Where’s the height and weight standards? Holy smokes.
Just an observation. A pilot of 15 years only having 2000 flight hours seems low. It’s sounds as though civilian crews get a lot more experience.
Where to being....
I am a 63 years old airline captain. I fly mostly international routes. My normal crew is mainly three first officers, but occasionally, I get a captain or two depending on the availability of crew members, but as I said, mainly the crew consists of three first officers, and myself for a total of four pilots in my crew.
We follow the stabilized approach concept al the way until touchdown. Any crew member could call for a missed approach at any time, and immediately, it will be executed without questions, we just do it and ask questions later.
To be a military pilot or even a private E-1, it is expected that you will conform to military standards such as weight and discipline.
The check airman (instructor pilot in this story) was shamefully fat. He was complacent, and it is obvious to me that this pilot lacked the abilities to be a check airman/instructor pilot. The upgrading pilot was trying to become a captain of a B1-B bomber when it is obvious to any of us who routinely fly for a living that this pilot had no business being there. By the report, you know that she/he shouldn't have been there trying to upgrade to any position of command. By his or her actions, this pilot shouldn't be allowed to become a captain on a B-58 Baron, much less in a B1-B Lancer.
The other two support crew members were in this situation as useless as a freezer in the middle of the South Pole.
We civilians, airline pilots, do not have the option to "punch out" or eject as this pilots did. We have to fly the aircraft all the way until it stops and you walk away or die trying.
All four crew members should get fired from their jobs as it is obvious they are just there to collect a paycheck and nothing else. Their superior officers should get fired as well for their lack of supervision and for having a unit of below standard crew members who were irresponsible and unprofessional.
Lastly, I served in the US Army with the infantry. Our units were highly motivated, fit, and ready for anything destiny had for us.
As usual, good job reporting.
My daughter's house was so close to the runway there, we could stand on her deck and see the Pilots in the B1 move their heads. Her husband was a Senior Master SGT Mech for the B1. Amazing to watch, and very loud.
The commander of the 28th Operations Group at Ellsworth Air Force Base in South Dakota has been fired from his job, after a damning report into a B-1B Lancer crash released last week blamed the training culture for contributing to the accident.
Is this true? Somebody actually got fired in a government job?
Haven’t read the report/news but military commanders get fired all the time. It’s not always perfect, but an under performing command gets judged harshly especially when an incident occurs.
@@gregoryf9299 Correct. A Wing Commander (O-6) was fired / retired a few years ago for being overweight. Usually it's something more than that. Wouldn't surprise me if the Squadron Commander and a few others get shown the door, due to lack of confidence. Something I find ironic, is this almost exact type of accident with B-1s occurred in the mid 1990s. In Tony Kern's "Darker Shade of Blue," he details the story.
I discovered you yesterday. No real interest in planes. 76 G’ma. of 8. 5 Great g’children. I like your manner, while explaining things. You’re very pleasant. I love learning new things, and is probably why I keep tuning in. Enjoy the research and your intelligence. Thanks.
Another outstanding job Hoover. Thank you.
I like a mix of long and short videos. This was especially good from the view of a civilian looking at the training of military pilots flying, some of them hoping to go commercial some time after their service time has been completed.
Back when I was in the USAF, we would have called this a SNAFU.
Excellent analysis Hoover, thank you.
The additional fuel consumption of flying around with a 260lbs instructor … 😮 $$$
Right? I mean, I’m sorry but much as I like food as the next red blooded American there’s a reason they put limits for heights and weights of pilots. That’s ridiculous, were they using a shoehorn to squeeze him into his seat? No human is naturally that far over 220 pounds unless he’s got a thing for donuts and soda.
I think the first problem with this flight was they should NOT have had a full load of fuel for a short flight. Less fuel would have prevented this. There are so many places where if just one thing had not happened, this would not have happened.
@colin-nekritz An overweight AIRFORCE person, what a shock...NOT! Recruiting is so bad, the military is being forced to keep people that should be gone.
@@colin-nekritz or beer.
@@mofayer that was a thought but I’m tainted by the fact my grandfather was an Air Force bomber pilot who never touched a alcohol but, after retirement, went from svelte to boss hog.
Thank you for the debrief of this incident. I have many years of aircraft maintenance at this location and happy that the crew made it out safely for the most part. Sad to see another B-1 disappear and one I likely touched at some point years ago. It's also sad that complacency and these various factors led to this.. I certainly hope things change to address that and I know it used to but have concerns with the current air force in today's world.
A half billion here... a half billion there.. pretty soon you're talking real money.
Ayup.
And then there's Ukraine... meh, we just print more money. Love our middle-school intelligence level executive branch.
@@markmaki4460 We could raise taxes on wealth and pay our bills. The richest country in the world not being able to pay its bills is a simple tax adjustment not a real problem. If you elect deadbeats, who shutdown the government to avoid paying anything, you have problems.
@@markmaki4460 Well, except. The war in Ukraine has been the best deal for the US in history.
You've sent them expired munition, charged tens of billions of dollars for that, even though they had a negative value, gave them obsolete M113's, HMVVS's charged tens of billions for that.
Yes, HIMARS aren't obsolete, so the 36 pieces they received are high tech and valuable and so are thousands of Javelins, yet, only Europe ordered something around 250 billion $ worth of weaponry from you.
In other words, there has never been a better deal in history than USA giving Ukraine 0.001% of your arsenal and getting hundreds of billions in return.
Don't let the reality disturb your propaganda lies though. Must support Mr. Putin and Russia where 40% of their people don't have access to running water, fridge, washing machine and other basic appliances despite them pawning close to a trillion $ from oil and gas each year.
@@janchovanec8624It’s a bit premature to be claiming that. Let’s wait for the outcome of the conflict before appraising whether it was worth it.
Listening to your show makes me miss my days in the USAF with the old beat up F-4 e models. Fly for an hour and be down for a day or two!
The incompetence in aviation in present times, both civilian and military, is utterly staggering in its shock value.
It has always been thus, unfortunately.
@@MrProach2 People gonna human.
Did any of you look closely at the upgrading pilot's flying time? Even with 200 flying hours from undergraduate pilot training his total military flight time would be only 457 total hours. That's crazy low to be upgrading to aircraft commander. Back in the day, we had to have a minimum of 1000 hours of military flying time to qualify for this upgrade training. I wonder if he flew another Air Force aircraft type before coming to the B1 that is not listed in this video.
Why I like your videos Hoover is how professional you present the information for this and all your videos, I really appreciate you doing so, thank you for your input.
Me after I crash the company car: "It's just a class E incident, don't worry about it."
I machined parts for the B-1 over 30 years ago, and I am amazed that they are still flying them today.
Sometimes you need to criticize people to see who's really To blame not sugar coated it
This was so much better than the first live debrief I watched! A massive improvement and I was glued to it right from the start. It was so interesting to learn how things are done in a military setting compared to civilian. In fact I was sorry when the video came to an end. A very professional and unbiased approach to dissecting this mishap, you did a great job.
I’m interested in why the crew ejected on the ground. Would they not have been able to climb out of the plane? Does the ejection take them to the height an opening parachute would need to safely land someone on the ground?
They must have been using the Secret Service managerial philosophy.
The Air Force itself is the problem. A few years ago the C-XXXXXX flight time requirements were changed from Aircraft + SIM time to any time. Before this, you used to have hundreds of aircraft hours required. What this means is that you can upgrade to Aircraft Commander with only the 3.5 hours aircraft time you graduated IQT with and the rest can be SIM time! I have 7,600 hours aircraft time flying in the Air Force and 20 years as a C-XXXXXX Training Manager as a GS and I couldn't even dream up a nightmare culture as bad as Ellsworths! Thank God the C-XXXXXX base I've been at the past 30 years and especially my squadron's culture is completely opposite thier's. We overcome the shortcomings we're given and adheres to standards, including weight and fitness. Ellsworth ORM/CRM? I don't believe they've heard of it. It starts at the top, the top at Ellsworth has been lopped off, but everyone below him has already been trained to a substandard. How to fix that?!
Excellent Debrief.
French commercial pilot here. Love your videos ‼
I guess when you're in a B1 and you hear Fox-3 your brain will absolutely make you pay attention to whatever is said after that
Fox-4: yeeting your plane into the opponent or ground
I had to rewind this five times, twice with subtitles, to understand you said "84 500lb bombs."
I've only just this minute understood the destruction we can bring now. Visualising it in terms of WW2 bomber payloads is mind blowing.
We get a lot of our airline pilots form the Air Force. They are supposed to be highly experienced and proficient. It sounds like they have to go to the airlines to learn how to be safe pilots, regardless of how many hours they have.
I wonder what Hoover looks like without that hat
Google Lt Col Trevor k Smith (Hoover),and you can see pictures of him in uniform without any head cover,also photos of him in civilian clothes.
Ahh, yes. Looks like the guy from the Rob Schneider airplane pilot joke or is that the Jamie Fox airplane pilot joke!?
The casual, complacent incompetence of all involved in this incident is so reminiscent of the Navy’s tragic warship collisions at sea in recent years. Total disregard for doing it by the book and following established procedures, in favor of just winging it. It’s disgusting that the military leadership in both services has allowed this culture of incompetence to develop in recent times.
I miss the B-1's formerly stationed here at McConnell AFB (Wichita, KS) . The afterburners were a loud reminder America is safe.
Well now it has shipped all its excess weaponry off to Ukraine and Israel and can’t manufacture them at an equal replacement rate, USA is at the weakest point that it has ever been.
With pilots like these plus a few diversity hires i wouldn't be so sure about that
Greetings: Instructor- I suppose I should have told I had a big breakfast. Pilot - Yeah, it would have been convenient if I was informed of many other things.
Yeh I was like a slim 20lbs overweight for my parachute limit of 185lbs while flying the T 28 in Corpus Christi but fortunately never used it. Also it is amazing on how few hours pilots have in the armed forces when flying expensive aircraft. We are just babes in the woods that are expected to be proficient as a pilot with thousands of hours. That's why the airlines like hiring us because we already proved ourselves capable with so few hours.
I was amazed at the low number of hours a friend had in his 8 years flying the F-4. He did say they were tense hours.
Your presentations are awesome. You have made this one of my favorite channels to watch. Putting together all this information and discussing it on you tube must take a considerable amount of time and it shows.
Take that $0.5B out of crews pay.
Non-flyer here. Really enjoy your videos, especially this longer format. Thanks for making the content!
Thanks, Hoover 👍
I have always believed some of the best and safest pilots are survivors of the mistakes they have made. Unless there was an underlying personality or underlying mental deficiency I generally believe these pilots should receive corrective training and be placed back into active duty flying. I flew for airlines for many years. A lot of my captains were Vietnam era fighter, bomber and attack pilots across all branches. The insane number of accidents these men survived, many of their peers did not, mounded them into absolute amazing instructors and check airman. I flew with a marine F-4 pilot who flew 300+ combat missions. He ended up in military VIP transportation towards the end of his career. In today’s marine Corp, he would have been grounded and never given a second chance. But the military of his era believed that intelligent people learn from their mistakes if they survive.
How is a headwind to a tailwind shift performance enhancing? They would have lost those 16 kts of airspeed over that 25 seconds resulting in the need to add power not take power away. Maybe that's why they found themselves slow on short final?
I had the same question. If a headwind becomes a tailwind then your ground speed remains the same but the airspeed decreases which reduces lift and possibly puts you at risk of a stall.
Crazy to have so many mistakes and negligence especially among the US Air Force.
How does a change from a head- to a tailwind result in an increase in airspeed? Wouldn't a sudden addition of headwind increase airspeed and a sudden addition of tailwind decrease it, until the aircraft is in equilibrium again?
Dang it Evan, I thought you'd give up drinking....
If only they could pull the tapes of the B1 that landed ahead of them. Then you could learn if it was a training and culture thing, or something unique to the accident aircraft.
I think I saw a digital version of the APR-20 (B-52) on the upper left side of the Defensive Systems Officer seat. 😅 Used to call them EWOs.
Love how the livestream format allows more raw emotion/reaction.
If I am commander of that Air Wing, nobody over 215 pounds gets into one of my planes.
I'm surprised that they allow variances for the minimum and maximum weights for the ejection seat. I was an ejection seat mechanic for AV-8B Harrier II's. That aircraft utilized Stencel SJU-4 ejection seats and I remember the Marine Corps was very strict about minimum and maximum pilot weights. In fact, we had a female pilot that struggled to meet minimum weight, which I believe was 170 lbs. From my recollection, 1 pound over or under and they weren't flying. Perhaps this was because the SJU-4 was a zero/zero seat?
The instructor pilot was 260 pounds? OMG.
Welcome to the woke/PC world where every aberration is acceptable and nothing can be criticized.
Unacceptable, that’s not big-boned, that’s fat. My nephew is unit of a linebacker for Auburn, 6’ 4”, arms big as some people’s heads and thighs big as people’s waists, and he’s 240… all muscle. Yours not 260 unless you’re fat. You got no business at 260 if you’ve got an eating problem not only endangering yourself but you’re also endangering your fellow airman. Stop cramming shit in your piehole for two seconds or get out of the cockpit.
Not a problem if it is all muscle.
@@taomahNEGEV You don’t understand physics.
Fellas, this lady's mias got the HEAVIES 🏋️♀️