I feel like a lot of Meta Knight's problems are very "under the hood" stuff that isn't so noticeable at first glance. He LOOKS good at first, but then weird issues (like his Up Smash having limited hitboxes, Side B being frame 26 or his frame 7 grab) start creeping in and he just ends up feeling like lukewarm tapwater. Honestly just some moderate QOL buffs would work well for him.
@@chrispo7610 It isn't bad by itself, but for how small and short-ranged MK is you'd think he'd have a faster grab than characters like Marth is what I mean.
@@asplasticgods2725 Also, they nerfed his grab range significantly on ultimate, as well as his frame data for his dash grab. His aerials are also kinda underwhelming, with a lot of the cast being able to punish them out of shield. His moves have also low base knockback, low damage output, high but not massive knockback scaling, and above average endlag: That means short strings of light blows, making difficult for him to rack up damage, but at the same time he is unable to kill reliabily.
I hate that his side b does less damage than cloud bair, has less kill power than some TILTS and is probably the least safe thing if shielded. It's just good for recovery. And ledge cheese I guess.
This character is so frustrating to play. He feels so good to control, his moves feel good to throw out, but his hitboxes and confirms are so inconsistent, it's hard for me to keep playing him for extended periods of time. He has amazing starting frame data, but most of his moves have hardly any active frames, so it feels like I just whiff all the time. Also, anytime I play Metaknight in this game, I run into Marios and question how I keep getting out-ranged by literal hands, feet, and a head. :(
@@aidenawe9359 yeah, but he is in this tier due to the skill barrier. it requires immense amount of training and practice to reliably hit the kill combo's. once you get that down though you could touch of death anyone in the roster so long as you have the game plan down (imo)
People would have to play him to know that lol Seriously though I kinda wish he was a bit better in Ultimate. I played MK a lot in the early stages of the game but quickly dropped him after doing way better with Byleth. He's just so... underwhelming, to put it bluntly.
Meta Knight was the first character I wanted in smash. So I've definitely tried to main him a lot. He was my worst character until something clicked after I played Sheik for a while, and then Meta Knight became my best character. Also anyone that played me always loved fighting my Meta Knight. Very fast intimidating character, but he may not do the most damage. Meta Knight is the character that taught me to love going off-stage since that's one of his more reliable ways to kill opponents if you can't do the up air/down air combos. Meta Knight in Ultimate feels like a character that in theory should do well, but because things don't work all the time, he kinda doesn't. Meta Knight got a slight bit more range on some moves, and tornado allows for horizontal kills. However, he's more or less the same as Smash 4, but when everyone else got buffed, he struggles quite a bit more than he did in Smash 4. I will say if you try to pick up Meta Knight and haven't mained someone before, just be aware he doesn't teach you general mechanics much even if he does benefit from them. You won't short hop naturally because he's so fast with his jumps+falls, and has multijumps that you can get away with not short hopping. Other character kind of force you to know how to short hop. Also your ground game will suffer for the same reason, and he does need his ground game too. I had to play Little Mac for a bit so I could get myself to be better with Meta Knight's ground game so he could be more well-rounded. If you play some other characters for a bit, then go to Meta Knight, you can see that he can be devastating. With that said, I still think you'd be better off with playing a lot of other characters. Meta Knight is very demanding, and he requires you to play perfect. If you just play very well, and not perfect, then he does not reward you very well by comparison to other characters. This is probably why you don't get to see a lot of competitive Meta Knight players. (also some people maybe burned out from playing Brawl Meta Knight, especially when Brawl Meta Knight was so extremely good)
I remember. MKLeo got that character nerfed back then. Nobody was talking about the character until he bodied Mr.R and some other players with Meta Knight. Changes were made mostly to his up air so it couldn't ladder combo as well. It still did but it was just a little harder
This is a typical debate. Do you prefer a character that is overall bad but has a broken tool that makes him viable (like high tier or so)? Or a more balanced character that is worse on the metagame/tier list?
You mean Up-air. Dash attack to Up-air chains to Up-B was all the character did. Meta Knight got his aerials buffed, but now he lacks a reliable gameplan.
@@antoniopriego5660 Easily the latter, especially in the world of updates and patches. It's much easier to make a balanced mid-tier good than to make an unbalanced high-tier balanced.
You know how people tend to meme on the Pits for having unreliable hitboxes (tbh, they never drop for me, but whatever) and such? That's me with MK. The one frame window for multiple moves makes them look so derpy when Galaxia is through an opponent and doesn't do shit.
To clarify some thing said in the video, the ladder to nado is actually a true combo if they are sent into tumble with the last two up airs, down b is kinda an unreactable landing opinion and can use it to snap ledge with the slash one. The tipper of dash attack is the best one and can be used to cross up. His up and down air last one frame. Up b sometimes just snaps to ledge and lastly Bonk vs Larry Lurr, even tho Larry one it was so hype
My plan on how to make meta knight high tier: Buffing ladder combos probably isn’t a good idea since most players would view it as toxic so I don’t think that’s a good idea. That being said, buff his up air. It’s only active for one frame and the hit box compared to the animation is a lie. Don’t change any of the angles of knock back or anything; leave that the same, just make it active for 2 or 3 frames. Onto the actual buffs (since I feel like the uair was more of a fix): make forward air have less base knock back but a bit more knock back growth so that it combos into itself ~ 3 times at 0% and about 2 times until around 50%. Also makes it a bit better at killing at high percents. Also also, have a few more frames in between the second and last hit so that it confirms into shuttle loop a bit easier and doesn’t feel... awkward. Make upsmash and uptilt actually have a good grounded launcher hit box since it’s really stupid that MK is a short character yet struggles to hit short characters with some of his moves. Make up throw actually kill or make it a combo throw that combos into shuttle loop at high percents, but the MK has to guess what direction the opponent will DI or if they’ll air dodge. And finally, of course, fixing shuttle loop’s, forward air’s, and drill rush’s inconsistent hitboxes is always appreciated. I don’t think I’m asking too much here. I’m just buffing his mid game damage output and giving him some more consistent kills as well as hitboxes. There were no ladder combo buffs (unless you count a few extra active frames on uair) so I don’t think this will make him a toxic ladder combo machine again, but it’ll just make him more consistent. He still has the same range and lightweight issues, but slightly greater strengths. Please make it happen Sakurai. MK’s so cool and so fun to play and has the coolest victory theme in the game!
When you side b, snap to ledge and spike the opponent it's called the condor dive, patented by Bonk. As a guess for the next Meta Knight video, you will get a guest appearance to speak about the character, it's either Bonk or Mkleo(my opinion)
Larry, you would make this Duck Hunt player so happy if you made a video on him. Nobody has been talking about the good boy since quarantine started and I'd love if the pup got some shine.
It's simple, duck hunt is giga carried by the fact that Noone knows how to play against him It may seem easy to just dodge the can and all the flying trash the character puts out, but then you get on the field with an expert like Raito and the duck and dog start running circles around you while you stand around and wait for your stock to end like a headless chicken coz duck hunt can't kill for shit
It's unfortunate how Ultimate Meta Knight has been reduced to Ladder/Bridge combo. Majority of MK Main relies on this like it is the answer to everything. I have seen this every time, ever where to the point the foes will think they will be dead if they get got from his "deadly" combo. It's predictable! MK has more attacks he could play around with like his Dimensional Cape for mind game. There is no doubt that Brawl Meta Knight is more entertaining to watch despise his top tier statue. But I am convince Ultimate MK is more than he is right now. 3:20 Edge guarding MK is so good. Edge is the staple of recovery and MK will prevent it from happening! 7:56 Condor Dive is what MK's spike is! 9:27 That hitstun! 13:01 Nice Smash! 13:24 Nice one! 14:58 Yes! Jabbing the Edge! 15:22 Now that I am talking about! 15:45 Good Neutral Air here! 15:54 Dive Kick fail 16:20 Risky Condor Dive 17:09 Oh yeah! 18:09 Take that, Witch! 18:49 Never tired of this! 20:06 Haha! 21:02 God dammit! 22:37 Oh, I love that one on the footage. Faking/missing the Ladder Combo and then, Dimensional Cape near the edge. DownB has faster movement than his fall or fast fall. Good way to catch up. I feel like MK is good at luring the foes on edge and then, guarding it. He has good Edge Guarding potential. Of course, there are other creative play we have yet to discovers.
What hurts Meta Knight the most are his N-air, D-air and U-air hitboxes not fitting the animation, so much so you feel maimed: - N-air's doesn't even extend all the way to the tip of his sword, you're basically slamming with his body - D-air and U-air's don't cover the entirety of the swing. Doesn't matter that it lasts just 1 frame, check on ultimate frame data. From the frame before to the one active frame, his sword covers a wide arc (with proper in-game animation) but the hitbox doesn't even begin to reflect that. You get 1 string of hitboxes the size of his body (a bit more for up air) at the tip of the sword and that's it. Here's in action what I said (for up air): www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/aovs2z/ultimate_meta_knight_up_air_hitbox_why/ ... I feel depressed just looking at it. Fun fact: if MK hadn't hugged Snake before performing D-air, it'd have missed. Even if the sword is still glowing and inside Snake's body. Just like what happened to Larry at ~20:26 This is fine.
Meta Knight is so weird because he supposedly goes even or at least has not-horrible losing matchups against top tiers. I've seen people say he does decently against Pokémon Trainer, Peach, Palutena, and Lucina, plus Chrom, Roy, and even Pac-Man. The thing is, he also supposedly loses against a lot of random mid- and high-tier characters as well. Plus, as you said, with his hitboxes being so precise, he seems to be a very difficult character to play well.
Metaknight to me was always one of those characters that was like diddy, sheik, or marth where they could never ever be bad with the toolkit they have unless you purposely make them bad. And uh it feels like they purposely made him bad lmao. Same thing with early on ult diddy, sheik, and marth funnily enough.
The thing is he still isn't bad bad. He is just way less viable than he used to. He still is good on paper just doesnt really perfork well in the current meta for various reasons
I know a bit about Meta Knight and I know why is now a mid-low tier 1°: Poor aerial gameplay. Between bad aerial movility, poor range, hitboxes being active for only 1 frame and unimpressive frame data for the horizontal aerials, it's no surprise why Meta Knight tend to play grounded. 2°: Neutered tools. Back aerial has less knockback, Dash attack is a much worse combo starter, his dash grab was heavily nerfed both in range, startup and endlag, and Shuttle loop is a worse kill move due to new phychics. 3°: Unsafe on shield. Meta Knight loses hard to shield, specially against characters with a good N-Air or Up B OoS, except his own N-Air altough that move has no range or body deformation so isn't that safe either. Meanwhile Meta Knight itself is not that good at punishing moves on his shield due to nerfs to his grab and shield grab in general.
Meta Knight is pretty cool and fun to play. I wish that I was better at playing him where I could do the ladder and bridge combos. I agree that he's probably at his worst in ultimate, but I don't think he's bad. I don't think he really needs too many buffs. I just think that he needs more people exploring what the character could do. As for other characters I would like to see you cover, I think link would be an interesting video. At the start of ultimate, Link was seen as a top tier, and even without any significant nerfs to the character, many players dropped the character and he dropped in tier lists. I think a video on why he dropped and if he is still any good would make a good video.
As a metaknight main all i really want in buffs is up b have more knock back and his down thorw work to combo better and the middle hitbox on the dash attack to be gone cus the only way you can really combo off of dash attack is if you connect the tiper or close hitbox of dash attack if you connect the middle one they will fly at a angle most of the time where you dont get anything off of it
Hey larry great video! Just wanna try to clear up some misconceptions and add some stuff as far as I can! -Bridges So you called them down air chains and thats technically right, however you generally wanna use the least amount of down airs possible and use more up airs due to more favorable hitstun, you also wanna aim for the reverse hit as those can combo into bair! -Smash 4 nado was significantly better This is for 2 reasons:it could guarabtee a shield poke on people shielding on platforms and while yes it is pretty strong it pretty much serves no purpose none of his aerials cant. Most of the time it isnt even true out of a ladder/bridge and as such is mostly used to keep pressuring offstage without jumps left! -Bair can dragdown if you miss the last hit and that actually spikes! This doesnt really kill offstage per say but it puts the opponent in a bad spot, could potentially lead into follow ups by putting the opponent in a techchase situation. Also an opponent standing on the ledge will actually be spiked down off the stage giving you a chance to edge guard -Snake is not a good matchup for meta knight -And finally tier placement: Most people on the meta knight discord place him between mid and high tierish, tho high is very optimistic, id say mid tier is the most realistic right now. Also, People please stop putting bayo higher than meta knight it triggers me as someoe who plays both.
I appreciate the informative bits at the start of the video. Sometimes I don’t feel like drudging through 15 minutes of gameplay footage to arrive to the point of the thumbnail.
Great video Larry , if i can add some stuff dtilt, it's unsafe until 60% unless you hit a trip, so if you get hit by it, you can buffer a fast move like jab and MK will have to respect it and not run in immediatly for a followup. At higher % it can put people in tech chase and then you can side b them if they roll out, or up b out of shield on a getup attack Upair - nado is true at some % (on average 55%) , but its really hard to connect Nado and Dimensional cape are the only specials that you can "auto cancel" Fsmash is -6 but frame 23, also hits below the ledge but since its active for 1 frame, its not reliable as a 2 frame option I personally think MK is mid tier because he's kinda inconsistent and requires insane precision the buffs helped, most of these were quality of life changes. sadly up b and side b still doesnt connect well everytime edit : shuttle loop also has less knockback than in smash 4 but thats because of the engine change from s4 to ultimate so its negative on hit before 60
He does not need the trip on down tilt to combo off of it at low percents Meta Knight’s down tilt is unsafe on hit until ~40% where it can chain into itself, down smash, jab, and ftilt, at ~60 it starts comboing into dash attack which can lead to up b
@@WingGT79 it’s sometimes just better to just get them off into a disadvantageous spot, as down smash, ftilt, and jab send them into an uncomfortable position. Hitting his BnBs, ladders, and bridges are good, but ledgetrapping and edgeguarding is just as important
You can definitely camp out meta knight. Plus his best combo starters aren't very disjointed, so he ends up trading a lot which is not good since he doesn't do much damage.
I feel like "The most demanding version of MetaKnight" would be a slightly more accurate title... But I appreciate your assessment and agree with most of your thoughts. Thanks for the video dude!
As an MK player, hes easy bottom 15-20 imo, hes slow in the air, has inconsistent damage/combos, his range is terrible, hes super light, and he has a terrible neutral game, etc, and he just needs a few less major weaknesses to not be bad. Hes a lot like Mewtwo (was?) where hes bad due to just having too many major flaws, but he really only needs like 1 or 2 positive changes to make him great.
I'd like your take on Ridley in the current meta, but not simply a "good or bad, low or high tier" analysis. I already see Ridley as Mid-Mid tier. Not mid-low or mid-high. Like Metaknight, Ridley could really use some QoL treatment. Additionally one of the most popular buff suggestions going around lately (and one I've been advocating for over a year now) is slightly improving Ridley's air speed. So how about an analysis on whether or not Ridley really needs more than QoL adjustments? Maybe buffing Ridley further would send him over the top? Maybe he don't need an air speed buff? There's also the angle of "Did Ridley hit his potential ceiling too early?" Or how about "Does Ridley even have any positive match-ups?" No idea what your future plans with other characters are, so I'm just tossing out some subject ideas, if you don't mind. :P
I find Meta Knight way more fun to play than his Smash 4 counterpart with the faster pace of the game and you really feel the impact of his moves this time. But more fun to play doesn't mean better tho. Still, I think he has untapped potential and he isn't very represented.
Meta Knight is one of those characters I just can't have any fun playing in this game. He just feels like a character that doesn't work at the fundamental level. A swordie who's hitboxes are pretty much on his hurtbox with no good frame date to compensate for this setback. His movement also feels slower than it should ne and his grab game isn't threatening enough to compliment his close quarters swordie style. Even edgeguarding is awkward for him because of the hitbox on the hurtbox problem and his relatively poor air speed. After brawl it feels like meta knight just got continually worse for the crime of ever having been dominating within a meta (ha)
I’d definitely like to hear your opinion on the shoto’s. I feel they have some of the highest skill ceilings as far as skill goes but it’s so sick to see them work.
Hey Larry, I think it would be cool if you mentioned top players to watch for each character that you go over. Maybe even going as far as to identify things you have seen these players do that yield successful results.
Great takes on meta knight. He has a lot of potential but he's so frame-tight and his hitboxes are too quick to allow for mistakes so it makes him feel difficult to do really well with
Out if upair, nado is truer (probably some airdodges or fasts moves that escpse) when they're in tumble. Nair and fair are true when in tumble or not, but fair sends further below 50-ish percent.
Would you be open to talking about Corrin in a future video? Although they're among the least talked-about and least represented characters in the game (even in the casual scene), part of me feels like there's something worth talking about - like their aerial game, what their range really provides them, and the details about the nerfs they received when transitioning from Smash 4 to Ultimate (and what that means in a competitive scene).
And the weird thing is, he is not this fast and weak in the kirby games. Not even the playable version, that has inspiration in his smash one. His attacks in kirby fighters 2 feel like they all have the power of his f-smash, even if they are faster.
( ._.) It sucks because he's aesthetically my favorite character. Coolest-looking dude on the roster imo, but he just does not get the results that I wish he would. At least I look cool when I'm getting my ass handed to me.
I love meta knight. I started maining him because of the Kirby franchise and his gameplay Is perfect for me. The Only problems mk has are his range and his nerfed combos. I don't get why his range Is so Tiny, in the Kirby series he has probably more range than Marth.
I love MetaKnight so much and I can relate to your gameplay so much, I have a very similar play style as you and also line up attacks that should hit but miss. The one thing that I can’t do though is your bridge combos, I tried in training before to do combos but I just can’t. Is there any tips you have on it?
I feel like the title is kinda misleading considering there’s only 2 options lol, if he was in every smash game I get it, but he’s only been in 3 where in the first one he was broken and uncontested. He’s not even that bad in this game he’s alright
If your linier option is good enough. I feel that way for Samus. I put out Samus's options in front of her like bombs uptilt, grab, excetera, and I just repeat what works.
Man, Larry just loves talking about all the relevant characters and topics about Smash in my life, constantly talking about Shulk, and now Meta Knight lol
Meta Knight is Trash in Ultimate there I saved you from watching the video. It hurts to say this- he is my all time favorite Nintendo character and he's paying for the sins of being a punishing GOD in Brawl
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Metaknight transitioning from Brawl to Ultimate: I used to roll the dice
bruh
"Feel the fears in my enemies' eyes"
Listen as the crowd would sing...
Now the old king is dead, LoL
So how’d he go from broken in Brawl, to only decent in Ultimate?
I feel like a lot of Meta Knight's problems are very "under the hood" stuff that isn't so noticeable at first glance. He LOOKS good at first, but then weird issues (like his Up Smash having limited hitboxes, Side B being frame 26 or his frame 7 grab) start creeping in and he just ends up feeling like lukewarm tapwater. Honestly just some moderate QOL buffs would work well for him.
What about a grab being f7 is bad? That's well within reasonable startup for a grab.
@@chrispo7610 It isn't bad by itself, but for how small and short-ranged MK is you'd think he'd have a faster grab than characters like Marth is what I mean.
@@asplasticgods2725 Also, they nerfed his grab range significantly on ultimate, as well as his frame data for his dash grab. His aerials are also kinda underwhelming, with a lot of the cast being able to punish them out of shield. His moves have also low base knockback, low damage output, high but not massive knockback scaling, and above average endlag: That means short strings of light blows, making difficult for him to rack up damage, but at the same time he is unable to kill reliabily.
Perfect description could not have said it better
I hate that his side b does less damage than cloud bair, has less kill power than some TILTS and is probably the least safe thing if shielded. It's just good for recovery. And ledge cheese I guess.
Nothing better than starting your morning with some ice cold facts 🥶
Hello again
lmao
Hi lmao
I can hear your profile pic.
FUN LARRY FACT: One of Larry’s most iconic Ultimate sets was his closely fought 2-3 set against MKLeo at Genesis 7
ADDITIONAL LARRY FACT: He has also beaten MKLeo’s Marth! It was a similarly intense set, ending 3-2 at MSM 213 in Larry’s favour
Has Larry beaten mkleo in sm4sh?
Thank you, Silvesta. We can always count on you for Larry facts
This character is so frustrating to play. He feels so good to control, his moves feel good to throw out, but his hitboxes and confirms are so inconsistent, it's hard for me to keep playing him for extended periods of time. He has amazing starting frame data, but most of his moves have hardly any active frames, so it feels like I just whiff all the time.
Also, anytime I play Metaknight in this game, I run into Marios and question how I keep getting out-ranged by literal hands, feet, and a head.
:(
Called Mid B tier😇 I’m also a Meta Knight so I know how you feel.
@@aidenawe9359 metaknight is a top tier you're both mid with metaknight there's a difference
@@saphirepuma8244 on most tier lists it’s mid B tier.
@@aidenawe9359 yeah, but he is in this tier due to the skill barrier. it requires immense amount of training and practice to reliably hit the kill combo's. once you get that down though you could touch of death anyone in the roster so long as you have the game plan down (imo)
I never see people talk about his edgeguard game, he can go really deep and gimp alot of people
He did
thats basically his gimmick
People would have to play him to know that lol
Seriously though I kinda wish he was a bit better in Ultimate. I played MK a lot in the early stages of the game but quickly dropped him after doing way better with Byleth. He's just so... underwhelming, to put it bluntly.
I would put him mid high on the tier list. Those latter combos make him look high tier. He's just a buff away from being high tier imo.
@@montiski nah strong advantage strong disadvantage incredible combo game great kill power
Meta Knight was so good in Smash 4. I actually wished that they kept the rapid hit on his Tornado.
he was like the best secondary in the game back then
@@chadadams2338 nah cloud was the best secondary to have back then
@@juicystrawberry9351 BEFORE Cloud fucked everything up, MK was the best secondary.
@@mathunit1 ohh right I forgot how much he dominated
I miss downthrow nado at 0 giving you a free 27
Meta Knight was the first character I wanted in smash. So I've definitely tried to main him a lot. He was my worst character until something clicked after I played Sheik for a while, and then Meta Knight became my best character. Also anyone that played me always loved fighting my Meta Knight. Very fast intimidating character, but he may not do the most damage.
Meta Knight is the character that taught me to love going off-stage since that's one of his more reliable ways to kill opponents if you can't do the up air/down air combos.
Meta Knight in Ultimate feels like a character that in theory should do well, but because things don't work all the time, he kinda doesn't. Meta Knight got a slight bit more range on some moves, and tornado allows for horizontal kills. However, he's more or less the same as Smash 4, but when everyone else got buffed, he struggles quite a bit more than he did in Smash 4.
I will say if you try to pick up Meta Knight and haven't mained someone before, just be aware he doesn't teach you general mechanics much even if he does benefit from them. You won't short hop naturally because he's so fast with his jumps+falls, and has multijumps that you can get away with not short hopping. Other character kind of force you to know how to short hop. Also your ground game will suffer for the same reason, and he does need his ground game too. I had to play Little Mac for a bit so I could get myself to be better with Meta Knight's ground game so he could be more well-rounded. If you play some other characters for a bit, then go to Meta Knight, you can see that he can be devastating.
With that said, I still think you'd be better off with playing a lot of other characters. Meta Knight is very demanding, and he requires you to play perfect. If you just play very well, and not perfect, then he does not reward you very well by comparison to other characters. This is probably why you don't get to see a lot of competitive Meta Knight players. (also some people maybe burned out from playing Brawl Meta Knight, especially when Brawl Meta Knight was so extremely good)
Remember Pre-patch smash 4 Meta knight?
The one who borrowed melee Roys Sword?
THAT is the worse version of Meta Knight, at least Ultimate Meta Knight is kinda a character(derpy up smash aside)
I remember. MKLeo got that character nerfed back then. Nobody was talking about the character until he bodied Mr.R and some other players with Meta Knight. Changes were made mostly to his up air so it couldn't ladder combo as well. It still did but it was just a little harder
@@blueheart9873 Oh my god yeah. That was the moment MKLEO broke through to become one of Smash's households.
The memories
I guess this is a common theme in newer Smash games: absolutely gutting the previous game's top tier
@@MishKoz fuck you say the newer games, 64 Kirby is STILL the best version of the character
While he may be worst, I like the fact that his gameplay has evolved a lot from Smash 4 where it was "Dash attack the adventure ft. Up tilt"
Agree with this. You have to agree tho that his up smash sucks
This is a typical debate. Do you prefer a character that is overall bad but has a broken tool that makes him viable (like high tier or so)? Or a more balanced character that is worse on the metagame/tier list?
@@antoniopriego5660 I mean, it's not even about balanced or not here. He's just more comfortable and fun to play
You mean Up-air. Dash attack to Up-air chains to Up-B was all the character did. Meta Knight got his aerials buffed, but now he lacks a reliable gameplan.
@@antoniopriego5660 Easily the latter, especially in the world of updates and patches. It's much easier to make a balanced mid-tier good than to make an unbalanced high-tier balanced.
You know how people tend to meme on the Pits for having unreliable hitboxes (tbh, they never drop for me, but whatever) and such? That's me with MK. The one frame window for multiple moves makes them look so derpy when Galaxia is through an opponent and doesn't do shit.
To clarify some thing said in the video, the ladder to nado is actually a true combo if they are sent into tumble with the last two up airs, down b is kinda an unreactable landing opinion and can use it to snap ledge with the slash one. The tipper of dash attack is the best one and can be used to cross up. His up and down air last one frame. Up b sometimes just snaps to ledge and lastly Bonk vs Larry Lurr, even tho Larry one it was so hype
If you ever feel worthless, remember Meta Knight has a crouch
My plan on how to make meta knight high tier:
Buffing ladder combos probably isn’t a good idea since most players would view it as toxic so I don’t think that’s a good idea. That being said, buff his up air. It’s only active for one frame and the hit box compared to the animation is a lie. Don’t change any of the angles of knock back or anything; leave that the same, just make it active for 2 or 3 frames. Onto the actual buffs (since I feel like the uair was more of a fix): make forward air have less base knock back but a bit more knock back growth so that it combos into itself ~ 3 times at 0% and about 2 times until around 50%. Also makes it a bit better at killing at high percents. Also also, have a few more frames in between the second and last hit so that it confirms into shuttle loop a bit easier and doesn’t feel... awkward. Make upsmash and uptilt actually have a good grounded launcher hit box since it’s really stupid that MK is a short character yet struggles to hit short characters with some of his moves. Make up throw actually kill or make it a combo throw that combos into shuttle loop at high percents, but the MK has to guess what direction the opponent will DI or if they’ll air dodge. And finally, of course, fixing shuttle loop’s, forward air’s, and drill rush’s inconsistent hitboxes is always appreciated. I don’t think I’m asking too much here. I’m just buffing his mid game damage output and giving him some more consistent kills as well as hitboxes. There were no ladder combo buffs (unless you count a few extra active frames on uair) so I don’t think this will make him a toxic ladder combo machine again, but it’ll just make him more consistent. He still has the same range and lightweight issues, but slightly greater strengths. Please make it happen Sakurai. MK’s so cool and so fun to play and has the coolest victory theme in the game!
I hope this message reaches someone from the smash team because fixing these much needed tweaks will make him more fun to play with
Meta Knight doesn’t need buffs, he’s fine
When you side b, snap to ledge and spike the opponent it's called the condor dive, patented by Bonk. As a guess for the next Meta Knight video, you will get a guest appearance to speak about the character, it's either Bonk or Mkleo(my opinion)
Larry, you would make this Duck Hunt player so happy if you made a video on him. Nobody has been talking about the good boy since quarantine started and I'd love if the pup got some shine.
that would be cool
He basically lives understimating Raito.
It's simple, duck hunt is giga carried by the fact that Noone knows how to play against him
It may seem easy to just dodge the can and all the flying trash the character puts out, but then you get on the field with an expert like Raito and the duck and dog start running circles around you while you stand around and wait for your stock to end like a headless chicken coz duck hunt can't kill for shit
It's unfortunate how Ultimate Meta Knight has been reduced to Ladder/Bridge combo. Majority of MK Main relies on this like it is the answer to everything. I have seen this every time, ever where to the point the foes will think they will be dead if they get got from his "deadly" combo. It's predictable! MK has more attacks he could play around with like his Dimensional Cape for mind game.
There is no doubt that Brawl Meta Knight is more entertaining to watch despise his top tier statue. But I am convince Ultimate MK is more than he is right now.
3:20 Edge guarding MK is so good. Edge is the staple of recovery and MK will prevent it from happening!
7:56 Condor Dive is what MK's spike is! 9:27 That hitstun!
13:01 Nice Smash! 13:24 Nice one! 14:58 Yes! Jabbing the Edge! 15:22 Now that I am talking about!
15:45 Good Neutral Air here! 15:54 Dive Kick fail 16:20 Risky Condor Dive 17:09 Oh yeah!
18:09 Take that, Witch! 18:49 Never tired of this! 20:06 Haha! 21:02 God dammit!
22:37 Oh, I love that one on the footage. Faking/missing the Ladder Combo and then, Dimensional Cape near the edge. DownB has faster movement than his fall or fast fall. Good way to catch up.
I feel like MK is good at luring the foes on edge and then, guarding it. He has good Edge Guarding potential. Of course, there are other creative play we have yet to discovers.
What hurts Meta Knight the most are his N-air, D-air and U-air hitboxes not fitting the animation, so much so you feel maimed:
- N-air's doesn't even extend all the way to the tip of his sword, you're basically slamming with his body
- D-air and U-air's don't cover the entirety of the swing. Doesn't matter that it lasts just 1 frame, check on ultimate frame data. From the frame before to the one active frame, his sword covers a wide arc (with proper in-game animation) but the hitbox doesn't even begin to reflect that. You get 1 string of hitboxes the size of his body (a bit more for up air) at the tip of the sword and that's it.
Here's in action what I said (for up air): www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/aovs2z/ultimate_meta_knight_up_air_hitbox_why/
... I feel depressed just looking at it. Fun fact: if MK hadn't hugged Snake before performing D-air, it'd have missed. Even if the sword is still glowing and inside Snake's body. Just like what happened to Larry at ~20:26
This is fine.
One thing I really like about this iteration is how rainbow the sword is when attacking.
actually though, his sword animations are so aesthetic. i do miss the sound effects from brawl though
Yeah, I was thinking it kinda looks like Mirror Cut of Kirbys Mirror ability.
"Aesthetic" is very fitting indeed.
Remember week -1 when people were calling for a Meta Knight ban?
stupid twitter drama
Larry seems like one of the few pro players that actually likes playing smash
This video will singlehandedly change the online MK meta. Hold Jab boys
This is the worst meta knight has been in any smash game just like Marth in this game
Meta Knight is like Mario in that if you get hit by the right move at the right percent you just die.
Talk about Robin! Not a lot of people talk about this character, but they are pretty interesting! :)
They really need to make his hitboxes a little bit more active and give him a little bit more range.
21:18 "I could bring this back" as Ridley puts entire body of Meta Knight into his mouth :D
"Meta Knight's Brawl jab sucks"
Bruh, that sh*t hit on both sides and on top of him
Worst jab in the game actually
Flurry attacks were pretty trash in that game or in any game before smash 4. While most ones are unsafe on hit at least Metaknight came out fast.
All smash games except ultimate have trash multi hits,rapid jabs were worse.
@@ahmadkazan217 Some multi hit jabs are much better, like Bowser Jr.'s. But some others are much worse like Captain Falcon or Sheik's
Meta Knight is so weird because he supposedly goes even or at least has not-horrible losing matchups against top tiers. I've seen people say he does decently against Pokémon Trainer, Peach, Palutena, and Lucina, plus Chrom, Roy, and even Pac-Man. The thing is, he also supposedly loses against a lot of random mid- and high-tier characters as well. Plus, as you said, with his hitboxes being so precise, he seems to be a very difficult character to play well.
Metaknight to me was always one of those characters that was like diddy, sheik, or marth where they could never ever be bad with the toolkit they have unless you purposely make them bad. And uh it feels like they purposely made him bad lmao. Same thing with early on ult diddy, sheik, and marth funnily enough.
The thing is he still isn't bad bad. He is just way less viable than he used to. He still is good on paper just doesnt really perfork well in the current meta for various reasons
@@Dirtboy37 Arguably they were bad at the start of the game though.
He's not bad, I'd put him in mid personally.
@@captainmarsh3664 yeah mid is my placement as well, could be high in the future but rn its not looking like it
@@Dirtboy37 Diddy is a top tier sheik is high tier now after the buffs
I think MK is on the Diddy tier, where he does ok or good against some top tiers but loses against some low tiers.
I know a bit about Meta Knight and I know why is now a mid-low tier
1°: Poor aerial gameplay. Between bad aerial movility, poor range, hitboxes being active for only 1 frame and unimpressive frame data for the horizontal aerials, it's no surprise why Meta Knight tend to play grounded.
2°: Neutered tools. Back aerial has less knockback, Dash attack is a much worse combo starter, his dash grab was heavily nerfed both in range, startup and endlag, and Shuttle loop is a worse kill move due to new phychics.
3°: Unsafe on shield. Meta Knight loses hard to shield, specially against characters with a good N-Air or Up B OoS, except his own N-Air altough that move has no range or body deformation so isn't that safe either. Meanwhile Meta Knight itself is not that good at punishing moves on his shield due to nerfs to his grab and shield grab in general.
Meta Knight is pretty cool and fun to play. I wish that I was better at playing him where I could do the ladder and bridge combos. I agree that he's probably at his worst in ultimate, but I don't think he's bad. I don't think he really needs too many buffs. I just think that he needs more people exploring what the character could do.
As for other characters I would like to see you cover, I think link would be an interesting video. At the start of ultimate, Link was seen as a top tier, and even without any significant nerfs to the character, many players dropped the character and he dropped in tier lists. I think a video on why he dropped and if he is still any good would make a good video.
True Meta knight is the character no one understands.
Larry low-key slept on especially with these edits
As a metaknight main all i really want in buffs is up b have more knock back and his down thorw work to combo better and the middle hitbox on the dash attack to be gone cus the only way you can really combo off of dash attack is if you connect the tiper or close hitbox of dash attack if you connect the middle one they will fly at a angle most of the time where you dont get anything off of it
My ledge jab antics as a meta knight main have been exposed how will I cheese now?
Hey larry great video!
Just wanna try to clear up some misconceptions and add some stuff as far as I can!
-Bridges
So you called them down air chains and thats technically right, however you generally wanna use the least amount of down airs possible and use more up airs due to more favorable hitstun, you also wanna aim for the reverse hit as those can combo into bair!
-Smash 4 nado was significantly better
This is for 2 reasons:it could guarabtee a shield poke on people shielding on platforms and while yes it is pretty strong it pretty much serves no purpose none of his aerials cant. Most of the time it isnt even true out of a ladder/bridge and as such is mostly used to keep pressuring offstage without jumps left!
-Bair can dragdown if you miss the last hit and that actually spikes!
This doesnt really kill offstage per say but it puts the opponent in a bad spot, could potentially lead into follow ups by putting the opponent in a techchase situation. Also an opponent standing on the ledge will actually be spiked down off the stage giving you a chance to edge guard
-Snake is not a good matchup for meta knight
-And finally tier placement:
Most people on the meta knight discord place him between mid and high tierish, tho high is very optimistic, id say mid tier is the most realistic right now.
Also, People please stop putting bayo higher than meta knight it triggers me as someoe who plays both.
Also wanted to add that nado never snaps ledge so only use it to recover aggressively by hitting the opponent if you wanna recover with it
As a very dedicated meta knight main- I don’t want brawl mk back, I just want up smash to connect consistently 😭
I appreciate the informative bits at the start of the video. Sometimes I don’t feel like drudging through 15 minutes of gameplay footage to arrive to the point of the thumbnail.
Great video Larry , if i can add some stuff
dtilt, it's unsafe until 60% unless you hit a trip, so if you get hit by it, you can buffer a fast move like jab and MK will have to respect it and not run in immediatly for a followup. At higher % it can put people in tech chase and then you can side b them if they roll out, or up b out of shield on a getup attack
Upair - nado is true at some % (on average 55%) , but its really hard to connect
Nado and Dimensional cape are the only specials that you can "auto cancel"
Fsmash is -6 but frame 23, also hits below the ledge but since its active for 1 frame, its not reliable as a 2 frame option
I personally think MK is mid tier because he's kinda inconsistent and requires insane precision
the buffs helped, most of these were quality of life changes. sadly up b and side b still doesnt connect well everytime
edit : shuttle loop also has less knockback than in smash 4 but thats because of the engine change from s4 to ultimate so its negative on hit before 60
He does not need the trip on down tilt to combo off of it at low percents
Meta Knight’s down tilt is unsafe on hit until ~40% where it can chain into itself, down smash, jab, and ftilt, at ~60 it starts comboing into dash attack which can lead to up b
@@taskmaster4596 yeah i agree but in general you want dtilt grab or dtilt dash attack
@@WingGT79 it’s sometimes just better to just get them off into a disadvantageous spot, as down smash, ftilt, and jab send them into an uncomfortable position. Hitting his BnBs, ladders, and bridges are good, but ledgetrapping and edgeguarding is just as important
@@taskmaster4596 yeah i agree but most people play MK for his combos
You can definitely camp out meta knight. Plus his best combo starters aren't very disjointed, so he ends up trading a lot which is not good since he doesn't do much damage.
I feel like "The most demanding version of MetaKnight" would be a slightly more accurate title... But I appreciate your assessment and agree with most of your thoughts. Thanks for the video dude!
He may be the worst he’s ever been- but I’ll be damned if he’s not the sickest too
The ladder and bridge combos in and of themselves make up for his flaws
"he's the worst"
Proceeds to talk about whats good about him
easy to be the worst version when he was broken in the other games loool
I'd love to hear a ridley breakdown since almost no one ever talks about him
I'd love to see you do an analysis on Ridley!
The sad thing is the Lv. 9 Meta Knight CPU still plays like it thinks it's brawl...
As an MK player, hes easy bottom 15-20 imo, hes slow in the air, has inconsistent damage/combos, his range is terrible, hes super light, and he has a terrible neutral game, etc, and he just needs a few less major weaknesses to not be bad. Hes a lot like Mewtwo (was?) where hes bad due to just having too many major flaws, but he really only needs like 1 or 2 positive changes to make him great.
64 and melee, he didn’t even exist therefore he could do no damage
Oh boy, can't be mad because I asked this and it's too true, thank you Larry (sadness). MK b meta and nice footage
Lol he finally did it
But did you see that meta knight at the start of MKleo’s tyler1 vid?
amity bro, he's gonna clap cheeks at tourneys
Yeah it had so much sauce and that’s why he’s called mkleo so it makes sense
I'd like your take on Ridley in the current meta, but not simply a "good or bad, low or high tier" analysis.
I already see Ridley as Mid-Mid tier. Not mid-low or mid-high. Like Metaknight, Ridley could really use some QoL treatment. Additionally one of the most popular buff suggestions going around lately (and one I've been advocating for over a year now) is slightly improving Ridley's air speed.
So how about an analysis on whether or not Ridley really needs more than QoL adjustments? Maybe buffing Ridley further would send him over the top? Maybe he don't need an air speed buff? There's also the angle of "Did Ridley hit his potential ceiling too early?" Or how about "Does Ridley even have any positive match-ups?"
No idea what your future plans with other characters are, so I'm just tossing out some subject ideas, if you don't mind. :P
I find Meta Knight way more fun to play than his Smash 4 counterpart with the faster pace of the game and you really feel the impact of his moves this time. But more fun to play doesn't mean better tho. Still, I think he has untapped potential and he isn't very represented.
Meta Knight is one of those characters I just can't have any fun playing in this game. He just feels like a character that doesn't work at the fundamental level. A swordie who's hitboxes are pretty much on his hurtbox with no good frame date to compensate for this setback. His movement also feels slower than it should ne and his grab game isn't threatening enough to compliment his close quarters swordie style. Even edgeguarding is awkward for him because of the hitbox on the hurtbox problem and his relatively poor air speed. After brawl it feels like meta knight just got continually worse for the crime of ever having been dominating within a meta (ha)
Larry you have the best YT smash format right now
I’d definitely like to hear your opinion on the shoto’s. I feel they have some of the highest skill ceilings as far as skill goes but it’s so sick to see them work.
Cant you SDI the bridges? I feel like you probably could considering how many hits they take to complete
Partially yes
What song is that at 22:50?
Hey Larry, I think it would be cool if you mentioned top players to watch for each character that you go over. Maybe even going as far as to identify things you have seen these players do that yield successful results.
Great takes on meta knight. He has a lot of potential but he's so frame-tight and his hitboxes are too quick to allow for mistakes so it makes him feel difficult to do really well with
loving all your content lately larry, a new japanese major took place last week and may be worth doing some more analysis
Out if upair, nado is truer (probably some airdodges or fasts moves that escpse) when they're in tumble. Nair and fair are true when in tumble or not, but fair sends further below 50-ish percent.
Complete the Brawl top to mid tier duo by talking about Icies next.
Would you be open to talking about Corrin in a future video? Although they're among the least talked-about and least represented characters in the game (even in the casual scene), part of me feels like there's something worth talking about - like their aerial game, what their range really provides them, and the details about the nerfs they received when transitioning from Smash 4 to Ultimate (and what that means in a competitive scene).
My second choice would be the Belmonts.
And the weird thing is, he is not this fast and weak in the kirby games. Not even the playable version, that has inspiration in his smash one. His attacks in kirby fighters 2 feel like they all have the power of his f-smash, even if they are faster.
I'd like to see an updated Falco guide.
MK up-air and d-air are tiny sosig hitboxes that are only active for 2 frames
( ._.)
It sucks because he's aesthetically my favorite character. Coolest-looking dude on the roster imo, but he just does not get the results that I wish he would.
At least I look cool when I'm getting my ass handed to me.
Bowser junior
Could you talk about Mii swordfighter?
I love meta knight. I started maining him because of the Kirby franchise and his gameplay Is perfect for me. The Only problems mk has are his range and his nerfed combos. I don't get why his range Is so Tiny, in the Kirby series he has probably more range than Marth.
“What character do you want me to talk about in a future video”
Little Mac please, prove to the world that he isn’t the worst character in ultimate
I mean does it matter if he's bottom 2 instead of bottom 1?
@@olbluelips yes it does
The price of deciding to make a degenerate character honest.
Hey, at least he’s not a degenerate character anymore. Also, I’d argue he was only ever degenerate in Brawl, if anything.
I love MetaKnight so much and I can relate to your gameplay so much, I have a very similar play style as you and also line up attacks that should hit but miss. The one thing that I can’t do though is your bridge combos, I tried in training before to do combos but I just can’t. Is there any tips you have on it?
Can’t wait for your follow up meta knight vid. He’s very rewarding to get gud with. Landing the low % kill combos feels great
I feel like the title is kinda misleading considering there’s only 2 options lol, if he was in every smash game I get it, but he’s only been in 3 where in the first one he was broken and uncontested. He’s not even that bad in this game he’s alright
This video bouta make me cry ;( my baby edge ball ;(((
If your linier option is good enough. I feel that way for Samus. I put out Samus's options in front of her like bombs uptilt, grab, excetera, and I just repeat what works.
I don’t care who you are nor what your play style is. Going super deep to edge guard with MK is very satisfying
I'm curious to what you have to say about Corrin.
I would like to hear your sight and opinion about Ness, his potential and how good is is etc
Great content man👌
good music choices
I’d like to know your thoughts on Corrin, Bayonetta, or Belmont’s
You should talk about the true mid of ultimate: Bowser Junior
Whats a game that would really help with landing small hit-boxes like meta knight sword haha?
I would love to see you talk about King K. Rool, and get your opinion of him in smash
Man, Larry just loves talking about all the relevant characters and topics about Smash in my life, constantly talking about Shulk, and now Meta Knight lol
you should do my main mii swordfighter.
Hey Larry I was wondering if you’d give ssf2 a try?
I would like to see pit and dark pit talked about
Seeing a larry video without facecam feels weird
I actually started playing Meta Knight very recently. While I don't think he's bad, this is easily the lowest he's ever been in a Smash title.
are you kidding me? he is trash in ultimate.
Dont even know what i was going to comment but i will just write this for the algorythm
pog
I love Kirby games so much and I want to main at least one representative ,but I hate that not one representative is above low tier/bottom of mid tier
Meta knight is at least high tier
Meta Knight is just like Marth. They progressively get worse in every game.
Hey thanks for finally doing the meta knight vid!!!
I want to talk about my Boy Ike
I really enjoy play meta knight but hes just so hard to play for so little reward
Great vid! Can you talk about the belmonts?
Meta Knight is Trash in Ultimate
there I saved you from watching the video. It hurts to say this- he is my all time favorite Nintendo character and he's paying for the sins of being a punishing GOD in Brawl