Idk how everyone is so forgiving of how disconnected the devs are from their game. Such a spineless community of content creators nowadays it’s actually embarrassing. We see stuff like final fantasy dev perfectly doing super hard boss mechanics and stuff etc, and then there’s this guy who looks like he couldn’t complete but a normal dungeon. “Yeah guys it’s understandable to not be that good” “Not that good”??? This guy looks like he doesn’t have fingers or even know you can customize the UI, wtf????
@@Frostingale it’s not about being angry - although I def come across as a bit frustrated in that comment. But regardless of how you approach criticizing the lack of competency, nothing will change. They just censor anything constructive and positive too lol
to sum it up simply, people are just baffled to see the lead combat designer, the guy who we imagine is making all these terrible choices over the last couple of years, have so little knowledge about the game, mechanics, sets, skills, and how to actually play the game. Thats it, but thats enough. Its just a really bad look. I dont think he deserved all the hate he got, but people have a right to question these things. the problem has always been zos refuses to look inward, to admit anything is wrong, and keep moving forward with bad choices. No one would have cared if they hadn't made so many bad combat choices and balance choices over the last few years. We dont expect them to be pvp gods but when you find out the guy at the head of these choices has such little game knowledge and understanding, its concerning.
@@naplzt4kit's not all DEI not every bad thing is DEI this issue has been around longer than DEI started this is just people being hired who don't play their own game.
Sypher didnt actually quit ESO for Fortnite...he had already quit before he played Fortnite... he was playing 'For Honor' I believe to waaay less people than he had on ESO. He hated ESO with a passion when he left. Fortnite is just where he finally hit it big.
I find it amusing how they always play a victim card, but at the same time they have zero issues banning you from forums for any form of criticism or how they taunt their player base in their streams or how they defend their predatory monetization in the crownstore.
If ZOS took this with a bit of humor, they could make a follow-up stream where proper PVPers teach devs how to play. And if that is successful, do the same with PVE next. If they get the right people for it, that could be really good content that is not just entertaining, but also educational. Unfortunately, this does not sound like something ZOS would do.
Even when devs *want* these types of things, you have to keep in mind they’re a business and fall prey to all the pitfalls businesses do. Like when the devs have to refer to Gina Carano as “this crap”, when people are put in as the face of being corporate sellout. Gina Carano being informed the comments are about PvP: “What? People. No. You’re toxic and don’t want that, look how pretty these new crown crates are. Isn’t being able to shift colours of your shield ever so marginally REVOLUTIONARY? Good, that’s what we’re talking about now.”
It's because none of the managers in the communications team have the training to respond to problems. Most fortune 500 companies would fire a director for posting the message Jessica posted. Do not blame the community for being upset after lack of communication.
They want new players that 1: Buy cash shop vampire potions 2: Buy housing items 3: Open 1000 loot boxes every day 4: Ask their friends to join the game and repeat step 1 to 4
@qwp1026 Exactly, that's just about any modern game...they've gotten lazy and gotten away from actually creating quality content because they know the market has shifted to the majority of players wanting a pay to win game that way they have a feeling of eliteness over those that do not keep up with the p2w metas...secondly they exploit the crates the same way a casino makes money...3rdly there's a lot of nuisance quests or actions to do simple things that they take advantage of by selling "convenience" via the crown store (afflictions, cures, skill reset, etc.).
Yeah, what JTK said about the build up is the biggest issue. We've been told for years to trust their process, they are implementing good changes, they know what they're doing. And then we get a stream with the lead PvP dev showcasing exactly what he wants; a tank plar with no group play, bad bar setups, bad gameplay, and no direction other than "be annoying, don't die". What evidence do we have that they know what they are doing and should trust them, from the past 10 years? They delete comments, don't talk to players, they don't take other perspectives into account in what may or may not be good or bad in Cyro or BGs. Nothing that they've done has given us reason to continue to trust their word and path in regards to PvP development. It's like they want it to go in a specific direction in terms of gameplay, and the slow march will continue regardless of how negative it is to the PvP community. Additionally, that we are wrong for feeling the way we feel, and it's our fault that we don't get content or updates or communication simply because there are a few shitheads in every stream.
To the Devs, They don’t build the cars for Racecar driving. They build it for people who drive casually. So when you race car drivers complain, they don’t care. Essentially, they don’t care about the elites. You’re the minority. It’s all about the casuals and new players. That’s where they put the standard, hence why we experienced players find pvp so underwhelming. I play soccer in Real Life. I’m a quality player. We had a program change from catering to the quality players to now the beginners and casuals because they could make more money. Well…The experience is awful now. Everyone is terrible. These “Casuals” can barely pass a ball. So now their program is tanking. That is what happens when you cater to beginners. That’s my analogy.
6:17 This part makes me laugh so much. "Let me see if i can destract them" Meanwhile everyone runs straight past the tank because they arent npc's they are pvpers. If you going to play tank in pvp you better have some type of build to massively inconvenience the enemy, with stuns/roots/snares/ stat saps aswell as buffing allys. That build is a complete meme.
Literally exhausting to play against. The tank that’s keeping you rooted, shield bash stunned and slowed. The true tanking in PvP, peel and body blocks. Taunting players with behaviour, not a skill. 😅
There has been a stuck in combat bug for almost 5 years continuous. The mechanics knowledge kind of make it clear that no one is going to Cyrodiil on the live server. Sypher's stream is still on his channel.
I said it once, I will say it again: all they could've done, was invite some of the pvp content creators of the community, or streamers or anyone for a big community brawl stream. Maybe engage with them, via playing together or simply chatting with. And I swear, that stream wouldn't flop as hard as it did.
It was Awesome to hear from Grim in there. I learned from him as did many of the people I game with. Unfortunately Most have fled due to the issues plaguing ESO PVP atm. The straw that broke the camels back so to speak was the New BG system, a broken group que system and the fact that they refuse to take the feedback of active PVP players, to the point that those players get "canceled". I personally don't care if your top end of just learning PVP the current system simply Does not work. On the new end it does not encourage a new generation of PVP players to join. In the middle you have a group that wants to get better but simply cant get there because the streamers and Teachers are gone/banned or gave up. And at top end Its all about gatekeeping, because why would you want a healthy PVP community?!
I'd disagree. I don't think the "top end" is toxic or gatekeeping stuff; the games been out forever, what is there to gatekeep? I do think patience is low, because it's been years and years of PvP mains who slog through contentless months, balance changes that makes things worse, and a dev team that will not listen to the players who are on every day, see group comp and trends in builds, and whose thoughts and opinions are discarded as "toxic and not sympathetic". Being nice and kind to people isn't going to fix cross heals or the issues in Cyrodiil. Learning how to block a DC or RoA pull doesn't fix anything. If every single player knew how things operated on a 100% level, the issues would be the exact same still. It's the underlying setup of how PvP plays within the current meta.
@@CMLVI By no means am I saying Toxic, I have seen toxic MMOS and Eso is by far better in that regard, When I say gatekeeping im talking about your elite players that do not want to share what works and does not. IE via theory craft. If it had not been For Grim I would never have known how to even begin theory crafting builds. Most of the remaining Higher end players tend to stick in their click (and thats ok) and have no patience or desire skill up new players. Beyond that even ZoS gatekeeps. I played for months before I knew that Reconstructing Items was a thing. Or that I could go to Cyro to get my Assault and support lines with out ever doing PVP. Knowledge gives power and the lack of it in the game is Gatekeeping. As for Cross heals and shielding lol don't get me started on that topic. Its at an absurd level now.
@@matthewlangford2917 I'd still disagree players are gatekeeping information, especially that kind. If it was specific group comp or a personal build, I could see it, but item reconstruction or skill line leveling? I wouldn't even think to be saying that info in zone unless someone specifically was saying "I'm so tired of having to regrind for items I've had previously". Maybe it's platform difference; I'm on Xbox, but the vast, vast majority of conversation in Cyro is map callouts or people bitching about zergs/bombers. Very rarely is gameplay discussed, but it's also not really the place to do so. It takes so long to type on console, you can't really pass information quickly or efficiently unless it's yes/no question.
@@CMLVI Ok lets table the Player gatekeeping, But you have proven the ZOS Gatekeeping in a way. I think we can all agree Reconstruction is a pretty key part of the game. So Why Is it YOU have to mention it? Shouldn't that be part of the games introduction and highlights? I mean if Im doing the Tutorial in the beginning anyway why not throw a Recon table in there and show me it can be done. Or better yet add it to the crafting quests when your learning those. I get its not easy to remember when you first started and for many who have been around since the dawn of time the game seems straight forward, Its not for new players trying to catch up on 10 years of knowledge. Add PVP into that mix and the game gets overwhelming. And that's not even the greatest issue facing them currently. Over tuned Proc sets, Cross heals, cross shields, a BG system that encourages bullying a team in spawn, An underwhelming experience in Cyrodil I can go on and on. I think, In my opinion, The truth is they have just lost the faith and trust of the player base, We feel unheard unappreciated and frankly sometimes it feels like a slap in the face when you have someone who CLEARLY hates PVP doing PVP related content drops. Some ya all know who Im referencing lol. I love the game and the combat, there truly is nothing else like it, But Im the last person standing a group of players that were avid and loyal for years to a game that now cant seem to connect with it player base, in anyway, let alone its PVPers. I have PVE friends that wont even play now. Time for a culture change.
@@demonslairgaming6539 Oh I'll agree with that. I think some of it is the nature of MMOs; it's just hard to quantify all the game systems without making a needlessly long tutorial, but ZOS should try a but harder to showcase beginner tips. And yeah, it was overwhelming when it launched, and they've introduced so many more aspects of the game to make it worse. Add in the inherent adversarial system from PvP, and I can see why it's intimidating for even just "new to PvP" players. And also fully agreed with the last part. It's someone who doesn't like PvP making his own changes based on probably looking at spreadsheets and making changes based on data and not what's happening on screen. My biggest takeaway from this video is that ZOS has resources like JTK, Skinny Cheeks, and other high-skill players, and they are actively pushed away with the community as a whole. Very easy to agree with a culture change being needed!
Played pvp for many years in eso and prefer it to pve. My main thoughts are combat design team do not play pvp because they do not realise that it is completely different from playing in a pve environment. They also take feedback from pro pvp players as personal attacks which it isnt. I would say all pvp players just want to play the pvp side of things as good as they can do. And yes a lot of the negative feedback they got for the battlegrounds stream is also years and years of pvp being discounted and ignored in the game. What they should do is employ a dedicated pvp design team, actually people who play pvp and let them interact with the community to make it better for all pvp players.
ESO can never truly be balanced and I think players understand this. I think what this stream highlights is how oblivious devs seem to be to the most overt imbalances and the time it takes to address them. ESO doesn’t haven’t to be perfectly balanced but when things are obviously a problem and addressed a year later if ever it starts to feel like an absentee landlord situation.
This is exactly how I feel about ESO balance, in both PvE and PvP. We just want PvP to be fun and currently it is far from fun because balance isn't coming from a place of real gameplay but from spreadsheets and catering to loud casuals.
This game is a dumpster fire now, Concord levels. If they weren't somehow suckering people into buy crates and $100 houses, they probably would have shut the servers down already.
ZOS has PR problems!? You don't say! Every time I hear about ZOS responding poorly to their community, it's in response to someone raising fair questions, or voicing valid criticisms. FFS... Rich Lambert banned a very active creator from his chat for asking a very reasonable question regarding items on the crown store. They're so freaking thin-skinned. It's pathetic. Sadder still is how many people I see in the community making excuses for it.
Change needs to occur from the very top. Why the hell would any competent person want to be a part of the current dev team? And why would the current dev team hire anyone more competent than them? This problem goes beyond and above Brian Wheeler
JTK hit the nail on the head with one word - hope. Hope breeds loyalty, i think pvpers have continued to be loyal to eso for a long time, suffering some of the longest standing bugs in gaming history (for a game that is still supported). We have continued in the hope that the combat team had the skills, resources and knowledge to eventually fix bugs and balance in pvp. After watching this video, I think many of us have realised that there is indeed no hope at all. It's a culmination of years of questionable buffs and nerfs, and after watching this, one understands why. They appear to have no better clue what they are doing than the average casual player. Hope has therefore disappeared and along with it, the loyalty of many pvp players, anyone can see now that Cyrodiil is dead. The population has been decimated, and along with it, Zos' income.
The devs and community managers seemingly have alienated an entire 3rd of their customer base (houseing/fashion, and PVE being the other 2) the devs clearly do not play the game enough to understand this stuff which is fair why the hell wouldn't they ask questions of the PVP elite? I am a PVE player and can hear what these guys are saying. There are basic problems with PvP that need to be solved and are embeded pain points these people know ask them the questions ffs yes you are going to be abused but you have pissed them off ZoS you need to bear the abuse and frustrations and act on it for them to give you good will.
If the 3 of you where hired as a a 3 man lead combat dev the problems would go away. I don't understand why they don't offer you a job, but they won't listen to you and your willing to tell them how to fix it for free. Also where do I join community's to learn pvp?
There are a lot of issues with pvp, definitely the extreme class imbalances, pull sets, proc sets (all damage proc sets definitely need limitations as they undoubtedly ruin pvp), healing in all aspects is a huge problem, and lastly, the fact that since mythics released they kinda ruined pvp as well, and on that note since their release more than a handful have been nerfed into the ground for the sole reason of pretty much forcing you to "buy" the new ones.
The main issue is, population is largely fragmented and low across the board. A server merge is a necessity at this moment. Once that happens, naturally you’ll see a pretty big population explosion across the board in all forms of gameplay. Second, the high end pvp(best players in the game) is dying fast because of the first issue. High end PvP balance is what balances the ENTIRE game because that’s where extremities are born and abused. A good example is, a simple nerf to cross healing tips the scale making stacking procs(free dmg) instantly become meta overnight, because it directly counters that, but one who doesn’t play at that level wouldn’t understand. Third, once 1 is fixed, 2 naturally would increase and third, there should be base game coaching of mechanics, even the unintended mechanics such as light attk weaving or auto proccing enchants back bar. Simple things like that give players a huge advantage over one that doesn’t understand that and is a huge spiral effect into other much more advanced mechanics or set/skill combinations in the game.
Honestly, I'm sorry you had to sit through and watch this. I haven't been playing. It's very obvious on how the devs do not care about PvP and only want to work on lore, questing, and the more casual side of MMOs. They're very disconnected from the community as is, not surprised to see a stream flop so hard that they deleted the vod. Like brother can't even weave, that's as high as my expectation went for any dev in general - they didn't even meet that. That alone says a lot and it sucks as someone who LOVED this game at one point.
Question I tried signing in eso last night on NA and had a thirty minute cue time got in, and then it kicked me. Is eso still down? Also had 999! Ping wtf
NGL I play a pure sorc pet build in PvP. It's maw, knight slayer and mad tinkerer. The whole build is basically non stop stun and heavy attack with your pets overwhelming them. I do EXTREMELY well in BGs especially compared to the Devs and that's concerning.
I am surprised people are still upset at Zos for the pvp element cause it's been a mess for years. Think about it for years the way the fixed pvp was by nerfing pve sets... I've been playing these types of games for years and sooner or later the makers will lean more towards pvp or pve due to keeping the greater base happy. Unfortunately Zos made that decision yesrs ago... Heck, i can argue zos done more for housing yhan pvp over the past few years. Thx for the post
Try and put yourself in their place. The game has been out for 10+ years. At this point, they are just people doing their job, like anybody else. Maybe the first few years everybody was gung ho with new ideas, probably played the game in off hours, etc. Ten years later, like any job, “Is it 5:00 yet?” They don’t have the same passion as they used to. They make a plan for the year, and don’t want to do anything extra, make any changes, do any more work than is necessary. It’s just human nature. They need an infusion of new people with new ideas, and more importantly, renewed passion for the game.
I’d disagree as PvP has been on a downwards spiral since 2016/2017 and that’s only a few years after release. They promised performance improvements for PvP from 2016 too and performance is still bad. They’ve introduced broken sets into PvP and haven’t fixed/reworked them and most older item sets are completely useless in PvP. They promised PvP content and after 5 years they gave us 4v4 BGs with new maps that no one asked for. There’s so many more things they’ve done wrong too. If I was a developer for PvP I’d be feeling disappointed that I’d let my playerbase down and I’d be wanting to make things right, but instead they don’t care, don’t take criticism or feedback and don’t tell us why. They’ve had 10 years to turn things around in PvP and they haven’t and that’s on them.
I think people are angry because it's been 10 years. The pvp hasn't gotten better in 10 years and the game knowledge from a dev after 10 years is embarrassing and a complete joke. It's an insult to the player base and it shows that ESO will never change course to a better future. All they do is add more junk to the crown store, over moderate their chats and in-game chats, and gaslight players for ZoS's failures.
I just want the game to work. They can work on balance issues in PVP once they can guarantee random disconnects, unexpected internal errors, etc dont happen.
stopping at 17m because i hear someone complaining about the ability for people in the same alliance in a open Pvpvp enviroment to heal each other without needing to group first... "Cross healing is a problem" what a joke.
Yeah. I can’t think of any MMO where your AoE heals just don’t heal friendlies lol. The whole “cross healing is a problem” crowd I believe are 1vX players upset they can’t kill players in larger groups.
My dream update would just be if elder scrolls started over and we had it like the first year where we had battles in Cyrodel with hundred and fifty people fighting around a keep without no problems
@@Rastamunfarion as a pvp main who has long quit the game sadly, i was really interested to see what was going on. didn't even make it half way through before i got up and walked away lol.
@nokkprime your speaking to a pvp main on his last days on this crap show of a game too , im just barely hanging on , eso is becoming a chore to play these days
@@Rastamunfarion it sucks man. the best times ive ever had in gaming were in eso pvp when it was working and they actully made pvp content. not battlegrounds bullshit
Nefi..you just milk off this subject matter and add really nothing😆 Latest crown store issue was more interesting and the fact that they had to shut down *every server* for 15+ hours to fix it.
Why the PvP community is so mad is because we fucking love this game! Everything Skinnycheeks said was spot on, cross healing nightmares in Cyrodil. You know ZOS hates the PvP’ers for STILL not fixing the water well camp spawn at Alswell! The last emp keep is mostly Alswell & if that camp in set on the water well everyone gets stuck who use it & have to go back to the gate & start over. Ruins emp pushes many of times over the past 10 years! STILL NEVER FIXED! The easiest fucking fix EVERR!!!! ZOS HATES UUUUU!!! I have 20k hours in Cyrodil in 10 years, I LOVE THIS GAME but at this point of time in my relationship with ESO it feels like a violation of my good will & I’m left overs to a party I was never really invited too. I’m just praying AOC can save open world PvP because as good as New World is, it ain’t Cyrodil action. I unfortunately have lost all hope in the future of PvP in ESO & my friigging GT/YT identity is based on this game! 🤣🤡I can hear Rich Lambert’s wife right now watching this video & reading the comments, “wah wah wah” “boo hoo hoo” ☠️
06:00 Most people who use the term "DDOS attack" have no clue what that actually means or how they are preformed. First of all, it is almost impossible to target an individual user. DDOS attacks target servers or domains 99.99% of the time. This is because specific user IP addresses are very difficult to extract from a service (games, Twitch, RUclips, etc). Whereas server IP addresses or domains are basically public information. Secondly, not only does someone enacting a DDOS attack need a specific target, they also need a fairly robust network of (usually commandeered via malware) IP addresses to preform the attack from. And it's not like someone can do this from just one, or even a dozen, PCs. DDOS-ing is VERY involved!
Late to this video, but grimsforge made a good point about cross healing but also tacking on the point that you shouldn’t have more than 1 instance of a heal on a player EG a ball group stacking 12 echoing vigor, healing orbs, and scribe shields on top of each other.
To be fair, ZOS and PvP are for years in a quite complicated relationship. While I am for the most parts a sole PvE player, years ago I raised concerns about the lack of PvP support fom ZOS. Sure, since then they added battlegrounds which offered a new aspect of PvP but there could be much more. And let us not forget that in the early days of ESO 50v50v50 battles for a single keep was a thing. Now try to get like 20-30 players on the same area in Cyrodiil close together and you see the server lags taking over. I discussed this in person with Brian Wheeler some years ago and he said it has nothing to do with servers actually, which can't be true. A single toon that completed almost all of the content ESO has to offer takes significantly longer to load than a freshly created char on an alt account that literally has nothing to do. All of that luggage adds to the calculation overhead. Also that heal and buffs are distributed across groups adds way more calculation overhead in the end and thus costs server performance. I still wonder why there is no real arena with rated rankings where people can fight for the glory in 1vs1, 2v2 and 4v4 ladders. That should be fairly easy to implement and grant those that want a challenge enough content and may allow ZOS to actually see how different classes/specs/gears "dominate" others and the like. And yes,ZOS banned people in their chats for years when they mentioned PvP or something along those lines in their chats. The only thing I can explain that with is that PvP always has the potential for heated discussions and therefore they want to avoid those before they have the chance to really escalate the chat. But then, it's also not something that speaks for their communication skills in general.
It's fine to be bad in pvp as a player, whats not fine is to be a lead combat in a game and not know how the combat works. Thats it. I never cared for pvp until recently. I started playing back in 2015, did all kinds of pve stuff, vet hms. etc. achievement hunting, rping, housing, questing ,everything that there is except for pvp until 3 months ago when i give it a shot and i got addicted and now i can see why pvpers are angry at the devs.
Everyone being 45k tank healers makes the game not fun, they need to figure out how to kill the tank meta, if they capped health at 30k and made it so you can only have 1 unique hot on you at a time this game instantly becomes 10x better, and I bet there’s way better ideas out there that can fix this and they won’t try a single one, because they know best 😂
I have "extreme" ideas for combat. Remove weaving and animation cancelling, give skills cooldowns but make them more impactful and meaningful, have a simple Light & Heavy attack combo chain system with each attack chain ending having a different effect. That's probably too much of a difference in combat for people to accept, but I just find the combat absolutely dreadful, PVP and PVE.
I've seen many arguments about these cars, saying that an engineer doesn't need to be a race car driver. But let's be honest, an engineer might not even have a driver's license or ever sit behind the wheel - that's not what makes them an engineer. However, they absolutely must understand how all the components in a car work, what they are for, and how to assemble them together to create a good car. And by the way, you should take a closer look at what a game designer is - it's not rocket science. It's a very straightforward profession in terms of understanding what such a person should know and be able to do.
9:36 they should humble themselves and ask the top pvp players to help fix it, then pay homage to those players by putting in game monuments or statues in the pvp arenas like giant ones. ❤ 11:22 these are the people who need to be paid a certain amount to help fix this. It would be so amazing and wholesome to just do it right, and recognize the community.
eso pvp is the heat of this game if they payee more attention to pvp and looked after it and actually listen to the long term players that have agreed to hang in there for some wild reason, it would be absolute fire, you get them servers fixed and your good i played for 6 years until it got that bad it was unbearable so i stopped or else i would most likely be still playing today along with lots of people i known that left for the same reasons i did. literary i can give them one tip as a old player myself, animation canceling keep that skill window open we not here to play WOW we want eso, listen to the old school players they know everything, if pvp was seperate from pve it would solve alot of problems, you heal you only heal yourself, cancel the area healing unless your in a group the effect should take place.
The joke is on us. The man has turned around and wants to delete our class skills in Pvp. AKA kill Pvp dead within hours. A large part of streamer content is of course, builds. So he's proposing only set Pvp skills. JTK vastly underestimated the rage that Dev clearly has against the Pvp community, and most likely especially Pvp streamers who saw that fight and spoke of it... and the willingness of Zos to indulge his revenge. Probably cancelled the NA meetup because someone was rage-throwing food at the walls.
All the comments got deleted. Idk i wasn't there but that's the eso MO. I haven't played eso in 5-6 months. Breaks my heart tbh. My PS AD ballroom went to that new game.
i came back after the pvp update and week after my account got banned for some reason i talked to the support team they didnt give me a real answer anyway moving forward they said its final decision your getting ban this company is the worst your players base is so low and when someone coming back give them some hope treated them like that why the pvp update at the first place of course for new players and returning players this so dumb 😂 anyway im enjoying other games they digging their own grave they keep doing dumb stuff like always
13:17 a developer should be proud that players can’t kick their asses on their own game. It’s like raising a child lol. Developers are wizards they shouldn’t worry about trying to be the barbarian, cast the spells be awesome repeat.
Very glad I got out of eso when I did. Was playing on a PS5 for 5 years then got a gaming PC. Never turned the PS5 back on and I refuse to start over. I spent waaay too much time and money to just start over. And I know they’ll never put in the work to allow server swaps. So I just moved on to other games.
Pride goes before a fall, and ESO has had a long run, but as with any game, if the Devs ignore user issues and their excellent content creator base, they get poor game quality. I moved to ESO specifically for PVP, because it was better than Fallout. In Fallout there were exploit after exploit and hacking was a god-mode way to go. It took a long time for me to come to the same understanding with ESO, but I'm there today. Initially, Cyrodiil was super laggy to play, and it's been a known thing over the 5 years I've played. Never been fixed. Heal stacking, and shield stacking happen all the time. Ball groups exploit all of that and wreck because of it. Nothing from the 2025 roadmap shows a good game direction. If they fixed user issues, their players would enjoy the game more. (simple) . Players need to be a part of the team, and not the opposition. Skinny Cheeks, NefasQS, and Grimsforge-gaming were amazing advertising for their business. That's how they should have been treated.
Everyone has it wrong. The problem with eso is the performance. They can fix everything but performance, and they will continue to lose players. We can work thru the balance issues or incomplete hybridization, but the performance must be addressed. That's what they will not say. Lag, skill delay, low frame rate... these words are not in their vocabulary, and that is the problem.
I played for 1k hours eso mostly enjoy imperial city pvp farm etc, i can say smth this game not for pvp they are on life support of selling houses since start.. xD
In all honesty, the guy you gave the stage to speak on the subject in the beginning seems very knowledgeable on the subject; However he comes across as HIS ideas are the only ideas. He forgets that he is among the minorities in players. Most people just want to go into PvP and throw out some skills and have fun. Removing the healing and helpful factor will effect more people in the among the bulk of players then his small group of "end game" pvp members. They tried this already and there is a reason it was reverted. Nobody wants to turn off Cross healing accept those people that run in circles and call it 1vx. Basically I'm saying that his opinion is valid, but not based in reality. He only views things from his own angle and notfrom the casual gamers view. This guy is getting dangerously close to toxic in my opinion.
I gave up on eso years ago played on boht pc and ps4, 1. pvp sucks 2. pve is boring, 3. skills are boring. 4. lack of skill customization. 5. meta gearsets 6. lack of companions 7. no animal companions 8. unable to customize summons 9..boring story 10. unrewarding gear/drops
I gotta say. Since the hybridization they ruined combat. All builds are homogenized and variety has gone away. Before that update i had a broken ass 2h hybrid sorc with pelinals. Now its all trash.
Please don't convince the devs to neuter the game for the competitive scene. Not agreeing or disagreeing with you here, but someone who only cares about pvp content is going to help build a car that satisfies pvp players only
The new battlegrounds SUUUUUCCCCKKK takes way to long to get into a match and the matches are way to fast bring back the old BGs there was 0 reason to remove them from the rotation
Man I hate it when people don't understand what "cancel culture" is lmao. It's like when people misuse any other current catchphrase. It makes me not care about wtf he is even saying if he immediately jumps to that.
So many "wise, well-versed" pvpers will up n down whine wanting healing nerfed....then I watch them, if they insta kill 5 people in a row then the game is working great for them, if just 1 person lives longer than 5 seconds against them then they say "see this is why healing needs to be nerfed". But many times the 1 guy who was an actual challenge to them, wasnt close enough to anyone else to get healing from anywhere...and all heals in cyrodiil are nerfed by 55% already. Now yes ball groups and even 3 man groups and higher can be super annoying with cross healing and heal stacking for less well geared/less coordinated and less proficient players to take down. But this is what gives you a challenge, a challenge to find the gear that can go beyond that little bit of extra healing. How many heals would need to stack to out heal damage from 1-2 players? When these players can hit for 5k-8k damage on the low end with a single ability/hit all the way up to 25k in 1 hit/ability (some much more than that)..resolving vigor only about 3k-5k hp a second plus 1226 hp a second from radiating regen (these numbers not in cyrodiil, so take 55% of that off)...so 4k-6k a second healing from 1 player (themself, from the 2 most used heals in cyro) versus 2 players doing 10k-50k damage a second....yeah healing isnt the huge problem many have made it out to be, it just can be the difference in a player being insta killed in every situation, and giving them the chance to at least hit a couple buttons/trade a few blows and not feel like they are never given the chance to play in many situations. The newer scribe skills may be allowing more healing than ever before, but even those heals do not out-heal a good amount of damage from a good build forever. Damage is king in pvp, damage isnt nerfed there, heals are nerfed...but the 2nd king in pvp is numbers of players...so no I do not think 1 over powered damage dealing players should be able to kill a whole ball group and that is what will happen if there was no cross healing and heals got nerfed even more (we have lived that meta already, it wasnt fun). My solution is to give buffs to damage in pvp, just like the healing nerf from battle spirit, give a damage buff from battle spirit. Since pvp isnt about needing to take more time on a boss to feel a challenge so damage being nerfed to slow down the top pvers is silly to be in effect in pvp. Could have different buff amounts for different days/events, could be tied to number of castles/resources owned for a faction, or a slow growing buff for amount of time spent in cyro that day and it restarts maybe every day or 12 hours. Most pvpers would love battle spirit to have different buffs and nerfs to affect the meta maybe each week or month, easier to adjust the healing nerf to let them see what a bigger healing nerf looks like or what a bigger damage buff could mean. Most dont want it to stay as stagnate as it has for years now. We are willing to try something different and see how it goes (but I do reserve the right to say the zone of cyrodiil I do love it, even after 10 years, dont want that map thrown away like the battleground old maps).
Cross-healing is not conducive to balanced PvP. If someone can't stay alive with their own heals while ganging up on someone 3v1 then they need more practice or a better build. Healing being powerful on oneself is fine, but when those powerful heals are stackable with other people, it just makes TTK skyrocket which never makes for fun PvP in any game.
@@bookmagic9641only thing im rly gonna say is.. if you’re holding block you’re not getting hit for anywhere near 25k - ever. Also if you have the typical 30-35k resists either 3k crit resist, no one is hitting you for more than 13-14k in one global cooldown. What are you running to be hit for 25k??? Maybe you hit noobs for 25k that have 10k resist and no crit resist but that’s not a good point of reference for max hitting someone. Go in to high mmr bg and tell me cross healing isn’t an issue lol, and lmk what your max hit is against perma block 35k resist players is
@@devenmane541 13k-14k is inbetween the 2 numbers I gave, all values between the two can be valid...and no one holds block the entire time in any pvp area, cyro people ride on mounts, you can't ride a mount and hold block at same time and there are hidden gankers that attack when you dont know you need to be holding block...tell me you never cyro without outright saying it. Back to your number example, hmm even 12k damage is higher than 5k in heals per second. My point is basically all damage is higher than the heals. Heals nerfed at 55% in cyro, block only mitigates 50% of damage leaving you hit for 50% or less based on resistances, in middle of casting then get hit full force, enjoy. Lets see 50% of 12k is 6k hit in a second while just holding base block, and yet heals are closer to 4k a second if got 2 or more heals depending on your heal amount....that is still 2k higher in damage done. Also I tend to think heals are healing too much if 1 player can survive 5 or more players attacking them same time and they are taking massive damage during that time and rehealing. If however like you say they have such high resistances and hold block always, then no surprise their health isnt moving much and they really dont need much healing to stay alive in that case anyway....so nerfing healing wont do much would it? Maybe what you really want is a block nerf and a resistances nerf :)
If in a 3v1 yes I agree the 1 should lose and none of the 3 die, otherwise its a bit unrealistic right. But that is saying all 4 players are equal: gear, stats, skills, and ping. More than likely at least one or more of 4 players will be unequal in one or more of those things. One or more might hit the wrong couple buttons, get stuck in a wagon handle, get stuck in a wall, panic and forget to calmly keep resources up to deal with a flurry of attacks or need to break free/roll dodge. This game is highly ping dependant, to a point it can make a great player with gold gear/stats lose to a brand new player with bad gear n stats...example: any lag spike. Now imagine always playing with a lag spike that allows no weaving, because I do, and I know the difference since my ping wasnt always so high. The point being I don't advocate the game slow all other players down to my ping lag to be fair play. If another player has teammates or friends willing to give them extra heals and they are close enough to do so, that is their bonus in the game just as people with fast ping on server number 1 is those players bonus in the game. Maybe get you some friends so its 3v3 instead of 3v1, then you all can have extra healing, and it will then be only ping, gear, and skill dependent.
@@EmantheChosen When was the last time a factory worker updated a rule in basket ball? not every single person at studio is responsible for every decision made and they are not all experts at playing the game.
These people need to go outside, the reason the game seems to be "dieing" is because you spent 10k hours an 10 years of your life doing the same things over and over. If you think a few game devs can entertain you for the rest of your life, you need a reality check.
shaming your customers is not a smart strategy. maybe listening to honest crit will make you better. if people feel some way about something they have a right to and devs should be strong enough to listen and respond even if its tough to. doesnt mean they have to agree. critique makes you better if your open to it. shaming is not useful and leads to customers not feeling listened to and companies getting less money. its dumb from a business perspective as well.
grimsforge gets to arc 7 in Infinite Archive and he considers himself a "race car driver" XD. sucking up to Nefas, dropping a lot of big names. if that's NA community's current top brass I perfectly understand why the devs have left the chat...
Idk how everyone is so forgiving of how disconnected the devs are from their game. Such a spineless community of content creators nowadays it’s actually embarrassing. We see stuff like final fantasy dev perfectly doing super hard boss mechanics and stuff etc, and then there’s this guy who looks like he couldn’t complete but a normal dungeon. “Yeah guys it’s understandable to not be that good”
“Not that good”??? This guy looks like he doesn’t have fingers or even know you can customize the UI, wtf????
because being nothing but angry all the time doesn't help anyone.
@@Frostingale it’s not about being angry - although I def come across as a bit frustrated in that comment. But regardless of how you approach criticizing the lack of competency, nothing will change. They just censor anything constructive and positive too lol
@@Frostingale These devs make me angry all the time with their antics
Bots
The problem isn't that he sucks at pvp, the issue is they don't even realise they are bad at pvp.
to sum it up simply, people are just baffled to see the lead combat designer, the guy who we imagine is making all these terrible choices over the last couple of years, have so little knowledge about the game, mechanics, sets, skills, and how to actually play the game. Thats it, but thats enough. Its just a really bad look. I dont think he deserved all the hate he got, but people have a right to question these things.
the problem has always been zos refuses to look inward, to admit anything is wrong, and keep moving forward with bad choices. No one would have cared if they hadn't made so many bad combat choices and balance choices over the last few years. We dont expect them to be pvp gods but when you find out the guy at the head of these choices has such little game knowledge and understanding, its concerning.
Baffled is a good way to describe it. Like… how?
The ppl who make games don't play their own game 😆
@@Ed-ealmightythey're not gamers they're a team of DEI hires
@@naplzt4kit's not all DEI not every bad thing is DEI this issue has been around longer than DEI started this is just people being hired who don't play their own game.
Sypher didnt actually quit ESO for Fortnite...he had already quit before he played Fortnite... he was playing 'For Honor' I believe to waaay less people than he had on ESO. He hated ESO with a passion when he left. Fortnite is just where he finally hit it big.
I find it amusing how they always play a victim card, but at the same time they have zero issues banning you from forums for any form of criticism or how they taunt their player base in their streams or how they defend their predatory monetization in the crownstore.
Yup
If ZOS took this with a bit of humor, they could make a follow-up stream where proper PVPers teach devs how to play. And if that is successful, do the same with PVE next. If they get the right people for it, that could be really good content that is not just entertaining, but also educational. Unfortunately, this does not sound like something ZOS would do.
Even when devs *want* these types of things, you have to keep in mind they’re a business and fall prey to all the pitfalls businesses do. Like when the devs have to refer to Gina Carano as “this crap”, when people are put in as the face of being corporate sellout.
Gina Carano being informed the comments are about PvP:
“What? People. No. You’re toxic and don’t want that, look how pretty these new crown crates are. Isn’t being able to shift colours of your shield ever so marginally REVOLUTIONARY? Good, that’s what we’re talking about now.”
It's because none of the managers in the communications team have the training to respond to problems.
Most fortune 500 companies would fire a director for posting the message Jessica posted. Do not blame the community for being upset after lack of communication.
My comment got deleted that stream, I asked after their 3rd failed bg queue when they were planning to patch the matchmaker. 😂😂😂
This is such a great video, The car analogy was perfect LOL
I think they don't have anyone truly interested in pvp anymore. All their employees are interested in creative expansion of the lore
They are interested in expanding the lore maybe. But they haven't released a good story for years at this point.
you use the term "creative" very very loosely
They want new players that
1: Buy cash shop vampire potions
2: Buy housing items
3: Open 1000 loot boxes every day
4: Ask their friends to join the game and repeat step 1 to 4
@qwp1026 Exactly, that's just about any modern game...they've gotten lazy and gotten away from actually creating quality content because they know the market has shifted to the majority of players wanting a pay to win game that way they have a feeling of eliteness over those that do not keep up with the p2w metas...secondly they exploit the crates the same way a casino makes money...3rdly there's a lot of nuisance quests or actions to do simple things that they take advantage of by selling "convenience" via the crown store (afflictions, cures, skill reset, etc.).
I think less lore, and more expanding their wallets.
Yeah, what JTK said about the build up is the biggest issue. We've been told for years to trust their process, they are implementing good changes, they know what they're doing. And then we get a stream with the lead PvP dev showcasing exactly what he wants; a tank plar with no group play, bad bar setups, bad gameplay, and no direction other than "be annoying, don't die". What evidence do we have that they know what they are doing and should trust them, from the past 10 years? They delete comments, don't talk to players, they don't take other perspectives into account in what may or may not be good or bad in Cyro or BGs. Nothing that they've done has given us reason to continue to trust their word and path in regards to PvP development. It's like they want it to go in a specific direction in terms of gameplay, and the slow march will continue regardless of how negative it is to the PvP community. Additionally, that we are wrong for feeling the way we feel, and it's our fault that we don't get content or updates or communication simply because there are a few shitheads in every stream.
To the Devs, They don’t build the cars for Racecar driving. They build it for people who drive casually. So when you race car drivers complain, they don’t care. Essentially, they don’t care about the elites. You’re the minority. It’s all about the casuals and new players. That’s where they put the standard, hence why we experienced players find pvp so underwhelming.
I play soccer in Real Life. I’m a quality player. We had a program change from catering to the quality players to now the beginners and casuals because they could make more money. Well…The experience is awful now. Everyone is terrible. These “Casuals” can barely pass a ball. So now their program is tanking. That is what happens when you cater to beginners. That’s my analogy.
They build cars for people that drive those mini, toy Barbie Jeeps
6:17 This part makes me laugh so much.
"Let me see if i can destract them"
Meanwhile everyone runs straight past the tank because they arent npc's they are pvpers.
If you going to play tank in pvp you better have some type of build to massively inconvenience the enemy, with stuns/roots/snares/ stat saps aswell as buffing allys.
That build is a complete meme.
Literally exhausting to play against. The tank that’s keeping you rooted, shield bash stunned and slowed. The true tanking in PvP, peel and body blocks.
Taunting players with behaviour, not a skill. 😅
The best tank is a tank that tanks for themselves
There has been a stuck in combat bug for almost 5 years continuous. The mechanics knowledge kind of make it clear that no one is going to Cyrodiil on the live server.
Sypher's stream is still on his channel.
Wow. Imagine if we had a good combat lead all these years ago. This game would have been perfect. God forbid we listen to players though!
I said it once, I will say it again: all they could've done, was invite some of the pvp content creators of the community, or streamers or anyone for a big community brawl stream. Maybe engage with them, via playing together or simply chatting with. And I swear, that stream wouldn't flop as hard as it did.
The issue isn't that they can't pvp, the issue is they don't even know they can't pvp. They think they are mediocre at least
It was Awesome to hear from Grim in there. I learned from him as did many of the people I game with. Unfortunately Most have fled due to the issues plaguing ESO PVP atm. The straw that broke the camels back so to speak was the New BG system, a broken group que system and the fact that they refuse to take the feedback of active PVP players, to the point that those players get "canceled". I personally don't care if your top end of just learning PVP the current system simply Does not work. On the new end it does not encourage a new generation of PVP players to join. In the middle you have a group that wants to get better but simply cant get there because the streamers and Teachers are gone/banned or gave up. And at top end Its all about gatekeeping, because why would you want a healthy PVP community?!
I'd disagree. I don't think the "top end" is toxic or gatekeeping stuff; the games been out forever, what is there to gatekeep? I do think patience is low, because it's been years and years of PvP mains who slog through contentless months, balance changes that makes things worse, and a dev team that will not listen to the players who are on every day, see group comp and trends in builds, and whose thoughts and opinions are discarded as "toxic and not sympathetic". Being nice and kind to people isn't going to fix cross heals or the issues in Cyrodiil. Learning how to block a DC or RoA pull doesn't fix anything. If every single player knew how things operated on a 100% level, the issues would be the exact same still. It's the underlying setup of how PvP plays within the current meta.
@@CMLVI By no means am I saying Toxic, I have seen toxic MMOS and Eso is by far better in that regard, When I say gatekeeping im talking about your elite players that do not want to share what works and does not. IE via theory craft. If it had not been For Grim I would never have known how to even begin theory crafting builds. Most of the remaining Higher end players tend to stick in their click (and thats ok) and have no patience or desire skill up new players. Beyond that even ZoS gatekeeps. I played for months before I knew that Reconstructing Items was a thing. Or that I could go to Cyro to get my Assault and support lines with out ever doing PVP. Knowledge gives power and the lack of it in the game is Gatekeeping. As for Cross heals and shielding lol don't get me started on that topic. Its at an absurd level now.
@@matthewlangford2917 I'd still disagree players are gatekeeping information, especially that kind. If it was specific group comp or a personal build, I could see it, but item reconstruction or skill line leveling? I wouldn't even think to be saying that info in zone unless someone specifically was saying "I'm so tired of having to regrind for items I've had previously". Maybe it's platform difference; I'm on Xbox, but the vast, vast majority of conversation in Cyro is map callouts or people bitching about zergs/bombers. Very rarely is gameplay discussed, but it's also not really the place to do so. It takes so long to type on console, you can't really pass information quickly or efficiently unless it's yes/no question.
@@CMLVI Ok lets table the Player gatekeeping, But you have proven the ZOS Gatekeeping in a way. I think we can all agree Reconstruction is a pretty key part of the game. So Why Is it YOU have to mention it? Shouldn't that be part of the games introduction and highlights? I mean if Im doing the Tutorial in the beginning anyway why not throw a Recon table in there and show me it can be done. Or better yet add it to the crafting quests when your learning those. I get its not easy to remember when you first started and for many who have been around since the dawn of time the game seems straight forward, Its not for new players trying to catch up on 10 years of knowledge. Add PVP into that mix and the game gets overwhelming. And that's not even the greatest issue facing them currently. Over tuned Proc sets, Cross heals, cross shields, a BG system that encourages bullying a team in spawn, An underwhelming experience in Cyrodil I can go on and on. I think, In my opinion, The truth is they have just lost the faith and trust of the player base, We feel unheard unappreciated and frankly sometimes it feels like a slap in the face when you have someone who CLEARLY hates PVP doing PVP related content drops. Some ya all know who Im referencing lol. I love the game and the combat, there truly is nothing else like it, But Im the last person standing a group of players that were avid and loyal for years to a game that now cant seem to connect with it player base, in anyway, let alone its PVPers. I have PVE friends that wont even play now. Time for a culture change.
@@demonslairgaming6539 Oh I'll agree with that. I think some of it is the nature of MMOs; it's just hard to quantify all the game systems without making a needlessly long tutorial, but ZOS should try a but harder to showcase beginner tips.
And yeah, it was overwhelming when it launched, and they've introduced so many more aspects of the game to make it worse. Add in the inherent adversarial system from PvP, and I can see why it's intimidating for even just "new to PvP" players.
And also fully agreed with the last part. It's someone who doesn't like PvP making his own changes based on probably looking at spreadsheets and making changes based on data and not what's happening on screen. My biggest takeaway from this video is that ZOS has resources like JTK, Skinny Cheeks, and other high-skill players, and they are actively pushed away with the community as a whole. Very easy to agree with a culture change being needed!
Good to hear Grimsforge on the stream too.
in motogp mechanics listen to the drivers and build the bike based on the feedback the pro user gives them just saying
Played pvp for many years in eso and prefer it to pve. My main thoughts are combat design team do not play pvp because they do not realise that it is completely different from playing in a pve environment. They also take feedback from pro pvp players as personal attacks which it isnt. I would say all pvp players just want to play the pvp side of things as good as they can do. And yes a lot of the negative feedback they got for the battlegrounds stream is also years and years of pvp being discounted and ignored in the game. What they should do is employ a dedicated pvp design team, actually people who play pvp and let them interact with the community to make it better for all pvp players.
I am not a ESO player but Nefas and the Dev's stance is a testament of absolute disconnect and indifference to ESO. Why even bother ?
ESO can never truly be balanced and I think players understand this.
I think what this stream highlights is how oblivious devs seem to be to the most overt imbalances and the time it takes to address them.
ESO doesn’t haven’t to be perfectly balanced but when things are obviously a problem and addressed a year later if ever it starts to feel like an absentee landlord situation.
This is exactly how I feel about ESO balance, in both PvE and PvP.
We just want PvP to be fun and currently it is far from fun because balance isn't coming from a place of real gameplay but from spreadsheets and catering to loud casuals.
This game is a dumpster fire now, Concord levels. If they weren't somehow suckering people into buy crates and $100 houses, they probably would have shut the servers down already.
ZOS has PR problems!? You don't say!
Every time I hear about ZOS responding poorly to their community, it's in response to someone raising fair questions, or voicing valid criticisms.
FFS... Rich Lambert banned a very active creator from his chat for asking a very reasonable question regarding items on the crown store.
They're so freaking thin-skinned. It's pathetic.
Sadder still is how many people I see in the community making excuses for it.
Change needs to occur from the very top. Why the hell would any competent person want to be a part of the current dev team? And why would the current dev team hire anyone more competent than them? This problem goes beyond and above Brian Wheeler
I haven't played in 4 years I don't think I'll be playing again unfortunately
JTK hit the nail on the head with one word - hope. Hope breeds loyalty, i think pvpers have continued to be loyal to eso for a long time, suffering some of the longest standing bugs in gaming history (for a game that is still supported). We have continued in the hope that the combat team had the skills, resources and knowledge to eventually fix bugs and balance in pvp. After watching this video, I think many of us have realised that there is indeed no hope at all. It's a culmination of years of questionable buffs and nerfs, and after watching this, one understands why. They appear to have no better clue what they are doing than the average casual player. Hope has therefore disappeared and along with it, the loyalty of many pvp players, anyone can see now that Cyrodiil is dead. The population has been decimated, and along with it, Zos' income.
The devs and community managers seemingly have alienated an entire 3rd of their customer base (houseing/fashion, and PVE being the other 2) the devs clearly do not play the game enough to understand this stuff which is fair why the hell wouldn't they ask questions of the PVP elite? I am a PVE player and can hear what these guys are saying. There are basic problems with PvP that need to be solved and are embeded pain points these people know ask them the questions ffs yes you are going to be abused but you have pissed them off ZoS you need to bear the abuse and frustrations and act on it for them to give you good will.
Housing and the extreme casual PVE is all they have left. PVEers have also been ignored for years, but PVPers are definitely the most left behind.
If the 3 of you where hired as a a 3 man lead combat dev the problems would go away. I don't understand why they don't offer you a job, but they won't listen to you and your willing to tell them how to fix it for free. Also where do I join community's to learn pvp?
25:10 If they asked me I would have done it :p and wouldn’t have cost them 5 figures or more
There are a lot of issues with pvp, definitely the extreme class imbalances, pull sets, proc sets (all damage proc sets definitely need limitations as they undoubtedly ruin pvp), healing in all aspects is a huge problem, and lastly, the fact that since mythics released they kinda ruined pvp as well, and on that note since their release more than a handful have been nerfed into the ground for the sole reason of pretty much forcing you to "buy" the new ones.
These guys are on POINT! The pvp community has been saying this for years.
The main issue is, population is largely fragmented and low across the board. A server merge is a necessity at this moment. Once that happens, naturally you’ll see a pretty big population explosion across the board in all forms of gameplay.
Second, the high end pvp(best players in the game) is dying fast because of the first issue. High end PvP balance is what balances the ENTIRE game because that’s where extremities are born and abused. A good example is, a simple nerf to cross healing tips the scale making stacking procs(free dmg) instantly become meta overnight, because it directly counters that, but one who doesn’t play at that level wouldn’t understand.
Third, once 1 is fixed, 2 naturally would increase and third, there should be base game coaching of mechanics, even the unintended mechanics such as light attk weaving or auto proccing enchants back bar. Simple things like that give players a huge advantage over one that doesn’t understand that and is a huge spiral effect into other much more advanced mechanics or set/skill combinations in the game.
I shoulda got in on this good vid!
Part 2 💪❤️🔥
Honestly, I'm sorry you had to sit through and watch this. I haven't been playing. It's very obvious on how the devs do not care about PvP and only want to work on lore, questing, and the more casual side of MMOs. They're very disconnected from the community as is, not surprised to see a stream flop so hard that they deleted the vod.
Like brother can't even weave, that's as high as my expectation went for any dev in general - they didn't even meet that. That alone says a lot and it sucks as someone who LOVED this game at one point.
Question I tried signing in eso last night on NA and had a thirty minute cue time got in, and then it kicked me. Is eso still down? Also had 999! Ping wtf
13:30 offering constructive criticism gets u banned or cancelled
Cancel culture V.s. Freedom of speech
NGL I play a pure sorc pet build in PvP. It's maw, knight slayer and mad tinkerer. The whole build is basically non stop stun and heavy attack with your pets overwhelming them.
I do EXTREMELY well in BGs especially compared to the Devs and that's concerning.
I am surprised people are still upset at Zos for the pvp element cause it's been a mess for years. Think about it for years the way the fixed pvp was by nerfing pve sets... I've been playing these types of games for years and sooner or later the makers will lean more towards pvp or pve due to keeping the greater base happy. Unfortunately Zos made that decision yesrs ago... Heck, i can argue zos done more for housing yhan pvp over the past few years. Thx for the post
I SINCERITY hope the devs see this video. That car analogy was spot on
Try and put yourself in their place. The game has been out for 10+ years. At this point, they are just people doing their job, like anybody else. Maybe the first few years everybody was gung ho with new ideas, probably played the game in off hours, etc. Ten years later, like any job, “Is it 5:00 yet?” They don’t have the same passion as they used to. They make a plan for the year, and don’t want to do anything extra, make any changes, do any more work than is necessary. It’s just human nature. They need an infusion of new people with new ideas, and more importantly, renewed passion for the game.
I’d disagree as PvP has been on a downwards spiral since 2016/2017 and that’s only a few years after release. They promised performance improvements for PvP from 2016 too and performance is still bad. They’ve introduced broken sets into PvP and haven’t fixed/reworked them and most older item sets are completely useless in PvP. They promised PvP content and after 5 years they gave us 4v4 BGs with new maps that no one asked for. There’s so many more things they’ve done wrong too.
If I was a developer for PvP I’d be feeling disappointed that I’d let my playerbase down and I’d be wanting to make things right, but instead they don’t care, don’t take criticism or feedback and don’t tell us why.
They’ve had 10 years to turn things around in PvP and they haven’t and that’s on them.
I think people are angry because it's been 10 years. The pvp hasn't gotten better in 10 years and the game knowledge from a dev after 10 years is embarrassing and a complete joke. It's an insult to the player base and it shows that ESO will never change course to a better future. All they do is add more junk to the crown store, over moderate their chats and in-game chats, and gaslight players for ZoS's failures.
21:14 real hero
I just want the game to work. They can work on balance issues in PVP once they can guarantee random disconnects, unexpected internal errors, etc dont happen.
stopping at 17m because i hear someone complaining about the ability for people in the same alliance in a open Pvpvp enviroment to heal each other without needing to group first... "Cross healing is a problem" what a joke.
Yeah. I can’t think of any MMO where your AoE heals just don’t heal friendlies lol. The whole “cross healing is a problem” crowd I believe are 1vX players upset they can’t kill players in larger groups.
Very good video
Great early on analogy
My dream update would just be if elder scrolls started over and we had it like the first year where we had battles in Cyrodel with hundred and fifty people fighting around a keep without no problems
I never why they never bring Gilliam out, he knows his stuff and started on RUclips
talking over video audio isnt it bro
Agreed , so hard too follow
@@Rastamunfarion as a pvp main who has long quit the game sadly, i was really interested to see what was going on. didn't even make it half way through before i got up and walked away lol.
@nokkprime your speaking to a pvp main on his last days on this crap show of a game too , im just barely hanging on , eso is becoming a chore to play these days
he has to for copyright reasons. It has to be transformative, remember?
@@Rastamunfarion it sucks man. the best times ive ever had in gaming were in eso pvp when it was working and they actully made pvp content. not battlegrounds bullshit
Nefi..you just milk off this subject matter and add really nothing😆
Latest crown store issue was more interesting and the fact that they had to shut down *every server* for 15+ hours to fix it.
But they didn't have to shut down the servers to fix the crown store issue. It got ddos'd
Why the PvP community is so mad is because we fucking love this game! Everything Skinnycheeks said was spot on, cross healing nightmares in Cyrodil. You know ZOS hates the PvP’ers for STILL not fixing the water well camp spawn at Alswell! The last emp keep is mostly Alswell & if that camp in set on the water well everyone gets stuck who use it & have to go back to the gate & start over. Ruins emp pushes many of times over the past 10 years! STILL NEVER FIXED! The easiest fucking fix EVERR!!!! ZOS HATES UUUUU!!! I have 20k hours in Cyrodil in 10 years, I LOVE THIS GAME but at this point of time in my relationship with ESO it feels like a violation of my good will & I’m left overs to a party I was never really invited too. I’m just praying AOC can save open world PvP because as good as New World is, it ain’t Cyrodil action. I unfortunately have lost all hope in the future of PvP in ESO & my friigging GT/YT identity is based on this game! 🤣🤡I can hear Rich Lambert’s wife right now watching this video & reading the comments, “wah wah wah” “boo hoo hoo” ☠️
devs are clueless hahah
That one guy ranting about the "race car drivers" is the living embodiment of needs to touch some grass.
Nefas you can save this game, but bring Sawman, and zilla with you.
the problem with ESO is that if you aren't using the META then you are treated like shit
In a proper working government you remove this person for a person more suited for the position. A person of the people or the customers in this case.
06:00 Most people who use the term "DDOS attack" have no clue what that actually means or how they are preformed. First of all, it is almost impossible to target an individual user. DDOS attacks target servers or domains 99.99% of the time. This is because specific user IP addresses are very difficult to extract from a service (games, Twitch, RUclips, etc). Whereas server IP addresses or domains are basically public information. Secondly, not only does someone enacting a DDOS attack need a specific target, they also need a fairly robust network of (usually commandeered via malware) IP addresses to preform the attack from. And it's not like someone can do this from just one, or even a dozen, PCs. DDOS-ing is VERY involved!
Late to this video, but grimsforge made a good point about cross healing but also tacking on the point that you shouldn’t have more than 1 instance of a heal on a player EG a ball group stacking 12 echoing vigor, healing orbs, and scribe shields on top of each other.
To be fair, ZOS and PvP are for years in a quite complicated relationship. While I am for the most parts a sole PvE player, years ago I raised concerns about the lack of PvP support fom ZOS. Sure, since then they added battlegrounds which offered a new aspect of PvP but there could be much more. And let us not forget that in the early days of ESO 50v50v50 battles for a single keep was a thing. Now try to get like 20-30 players on the same area in Cyrodiil close together and you see the server lags taking over. I discussed this in person with Brian Wheeler some years ago and he said it has nothing to do with servers actually, which can't be true. A single toon that completed almost all of the content ESO has to offer takes significantly longer to load than a freshly created char on an alt account that literally has nothing to do. All of that luggage adds to the calculation overhead. Also that heal and buffs are distributed across groups adds way more calculation overhead in the end and thus costs server performance.
I still wonder why there is no real arena with rated rankings where people can fight for the glory in 1vs1, 2v2 and 4v4 ladders. That should be fairly easy to implement and grant those that want a challenge enough content and may allow ZOS to actually see how different classes/specs/gears "dominate" others and the like.
And yes,ZOS banned people in their chats for years when they mentioned PvP or something along those lines in their chats. The only thing I can explain that with is that PvP always has the potential for heated discussions and therefore they want to avoid those before they have the chance to really escalate the chat. But then, it's also not something that speaks for their communication skills in general.
I hope Todd Howard is brought in on disaster. These devs are detrimental to his vision they have been entrusted with.
I bet that guy uses the race car analogy in every argument.
It's fine to be bad in pvp as a player, whats not fine is to be a lead combat in a game and not know how the combat works. Thats it. I never cared for pvp until recently. I started playing back in 2015, did all kinds of pve stuff, vet hms. etc. achievement hunting, rping, housing, questing ,everything that there is except for pvp until 3 months ago when i give it a shot and i got addicted and now i can see why pvpers are angry at the devs.
Everyone being 45k tank healers makes the game not fun, they need to figure out how to kill the tank meta, if they capped health at 30k and made it so you can only have 1 unique hot on you at a time this game instantly becomes 10x better, and I bet there’s way better ideas out there that can fix this and they won’t try a single one, because they know best 😂
I have "extreme" ideas for combat. Remove weaving and animation cancelling, give skills cooldowns but make them more impactful and meaningful, have a simple Light & Heavy attack combo chain system with each attack chain ending having a different effect. That's probably too much of a difference in combat for people to accept, but I just find the combat absolutely dreadful, PVP and PVE.
I've seen many arguments about these cars, saying that an engineer doesn't need to be a race car driver. But let's be honest, an engineer might not even have a driver's license or ever sit behind the wheel - that's not what makes them an engineer. However, they absolutely must understand how all the components in a car work, what they are for, and how to assemble them together to create a good car. And by the way, you should take a closer look at what a game designer is - it's not rocket science. It's a very straightforward profession in terms of understanding what such a person should know and be able to do.
9:36 they should humble themselves and ask the top pvp players to help fix it, then pay homage to those players by putting in game monuments or statues in the pvp arenas like giant ones. ❤ 11:22 these are the people who need to be paid a certain amount to help fix this.
It would be so amazing and wholesome to just do it right, and recognize the community.
eso pvp is the heat of this game if they payee more attention to pvp and looked after it and actually listen to the long term players that have agreed to hang in there for some wild reason, it would be absolute fire, you get them servers fixed and your good i played for 6 years until it got that bad it was unbearable so i stopped or else i would most likely be still playing today along with lots of people i known that left for the same reasons i did. literary i can give them one tip as a old player myself, animation canceling keep that skill window open we not here to play WOW we want eso, listen to the old school players they know everything, if pvp was seperate from pve it would solve alot of problems, you heal you only heal yourself, cancel the area healing unless your in a group the effect should take place.
Healers need to change period
The joke is on us. The man has turned around and wants to delete our class skills in Pvp. AKA kill Pvp dead within hours. A large part of streamer content is of course, builds. So he's proposing only set Pvp skills. JTK vastly underestimated the rage that Dev clearly has against the Pvp community, and most likely especially Pvp streamers who saw that fight and spoke of it... and the willingness of Zos to indulge his revenge. Probably cancelled the NA meetup because someone was rage-throwing food at the walls.
Crazy to think that this was okay by any means.
Slow decline after Nick Konkle and Paul Sage left
All the comments got deleted. Idk i wasn't there but that's the eso MO. I haven't played eso in 5-6 months. Breaks my heart tbh. My PS AD ballroom went to that new game.
i came back after the pvp update and week after my account got banned for some reason i talked to the support team they didnt give me a real answer anyway moving forward they said its final decision your getting ban this company is the worst your players base is so low and when someone coming back give them some hope treated them like that why the pvp update at the first place of course for new players and returning players this so dumb 😂 anyway im enjoying other games they digging their own grave they keep doing dumb stuff like always
13:17 a developer should be proud that players can’t kick their asses on their own game. It’s like raising a child lol.
Developers are wizards they shouldn’t worry about trying to be the barbarian, cast the spells be awesome repeat.
Ashes of Creation cannot get here quick enough. As soon as it's released I'm uninstalling ESO.
You'll be waiting quite a very long time bruv.
Very glad I got out of eso when I did. Was playing on a PS5 for 5 years then got a gaming PC. Never turned the PS5 back on and I refuse to start over. I spent waaay too much time and money to just start over. And I know they’ll never put in the work to allow server swaps. So I just moved on to other games.
Pride goes before a fall, and ESO has had a long run, but as with any game, if the Devs ignore user issues and their excellent content creator base, they get poor game quality. I moved to ESO specifically for PVP, because it was better than Fallout. In Fallout there were exploit after exploit and hacking was a god-mode way to go. It took a long time for me to come to the same understanding with ESO, but I'm there today. Initially, Cyrodiil was super laggy to play, and it's been a known thing over the 5 years I've played. Never been fixed. Heal stacking, and shield stacking happen all the time. Ball groups exploit all of that and wreck because of it. Nothing from the 2025 roadmap shows a good game direction. If they fixed user issues, their players would enjoy the game more. (simple) . Players need to be a part of the team, and not the opposition. Skinny Cheeks, NefasQS, and Grimsforge-gaming were amazing advertising for their business. That's how they should have been treated.
Can you edit this video. Been watching 3 minutes now and I still have no idea wtf you are talking about
Everyone has it wrong. The problem with eso is the performance. They can fix everything but performance, and they will continue to lose players. We can work thru the balance issues or incomplete hybridization, but the performance must be addressed. That's what they will not say. Lag, skill delay, low frame rate... these words are not in their vocabulary, and that is the problem.
😴😪😴😪😴😪
Trying to make Nefas believe he's wrong... yeah good luck (when Okuy said that... spoke a lot of people minds I bet).
Mannn if you got Brian Wheelchair making combat changes that explains the horrid game balance lmfao
I played for 1k hours eso mostly enjoy imperial city pvp farm etc, i can say smth this game not for pvp they are on life support of selling houses since start.. xD
In all honesty, the guy you gave the stage to speak on the subject in the beginning seems very knowledgeable on the subject; However he comes across as HIS ideas are the only ideas. He forgets that he is among the minorities in players. Most people just want to go into PvP and throw out some skills and have fun. Removing the healing and helpful factor will effect more people in the among the bulk of players then his small group of "end game" pvp members. They tried this already and there is a reason it was reverted. Nobody wants to turn off Cross healing accept those people that run in circles and call it 1vx. Basically I'm saying that his opinion is valid, but not based in reality. He only views things from his own angle and notfrom the casual gamers view. This guy is getting dangerously close to toxic in my opinion.
I gave up on eso years ago played on boht pc and ps4, 1. pvp sucks 2. pve is boring, 3. skills are boring. 4. lack of skill customization. 5. meta gearsets 6. lack of companions 7. no animal companions 8. unable to customize summons 9..boring story 10. unrewarding gear/drops
Any decent pvper could 1vx the entire eso dev team.
I gotta say. Since the hybridization they ruined combat. All builds are homogenized and variety has gone away.
Before that update i had a broken ass 2h hybrid sorc with pelinals. Now its all trash.
Please don't convince the devs to neuter the game for the competitive scene. Not agreeing or disagreeing with you here, but someone who only cares about pvp content is going to help build a car that satisfies pvp players only
The new battlegrounds SUUUUUCCCCKKK takes way to long to get into a match and the matches are way to fast bring back the old BGs there was 0 reason to remove them from the rotation
Haha I think it's just champion points in open world don't match
Man I hate it when people don't understand what "cancel culture" is lmao. It's like when people misuse any other current catchphrase. It makes me not care about wtf he is even saying if he immediately jumps to that.
EBuff Damage not nerf healing more again...
So many "wise, well-versed" pvpers will up n down whine wanting healing nerfed....then I watch them, if they insta kill 5 people in a row then the game is working great for them, if just 1 person lives longer than 5 seconds against them then they say "see this is why healing needs to be nerfed". But many times the 1 guy who was an actual challenge to them, wasnt close enough to anyone else to get healing from anywhere...and all heals in cyrodiil are nerfed by 55% already.
Now yes ball groups and even 3 man groups and higher can be super annoying with cross healing and heal stacking for less well geared/less coordinated and less proficient players to take down. But this is what gives you a challenge, a challenge to find the gear that can go beyond that little bit of extra healing. How many heals would need to stack to out heal damage from 1-2 players? When these players can hit for 5k-8k damage on the low end with a single ability/hit all the way up to 25k in 1 hit/ability (some much more than that)..resolving vigor only about 3k-5k hp a second plus 1226 hp a second from radiating regen (these numbers not in cyrodiil, so take 55% of that off)...so 4k-6k a second healing from 1 player (themself, from the 2 most used heals in cyro) versus 2 players doing 10k-50k damage a second....yeah healing isnt the huge problem many have made it out to be, it just can be the difference in a player being insta killed in every situation, and giving them the chance to at least hit a couple buttons/trade a few blows and not feel like they are never given the chance to play in many situations. The newer scribe skills may be allowing more healing than ever before, but even those heals do not out-heal a good amount of damage from a good build forever. Damage is king in pvp, damage isnt nerfed there, heals are nerfed...but the 2nd king in pvp is numbers of players...so no I do not think 1 over powered damage dealing players should be able to kill a whole ball group and that is what will happen if there was no cross healing and heals got nerfed even more (we have lived that meta already, it wasnt fun).
My solution is to give buffs to damage in pvp, just like the healing nerf from battle spirit, give a damage buff from battle spirit. Since pvp isnt about needing to take more time on a boss to feel a challenge so damage being nerfed to slow down the top pvers is silly to be in effect in pvp. Could have different buff amounts for different days/events, could be tied to number of castles/resources owned for a faction, or a slow growing buff for amount of time spent in cyro that day and it restarts maybe every day or 12 hours. Most pvpers would love battle spirit to have different buffs and nerfs to affect the meta maybe each week or month, easier to adjust the healing nerf to let them see what a bigger healing nerf looks like or what a bigger damage buff could mean. Most dont want it to stay as stagnate as it has for years now. We are willing to try something different and see how it goes (but I do reserve the right to say the zone of cyrodiil I do love it, even after 10 years, dont want that map thrown away like the battleground old maps).
Cross-healing is not conducive to balanced PvP.
If someone can't stay alive with their own heals while ganging up on someone 3v1 then they need more practice or a better build.
Healing being powerful on oneself is fine, but when those powerful heals are stackable with other people, it just makes TTK skyrocket which never makes for fun PvP in any game.
@@bookmagic9641only thing im rly gonna say is.. if you’re holding block you’re not getting hit for anywhere near 25k - ever.
Also if you have the typical 30-35k resists either 3k crit resist, no one is hitting you for more than 13-14k in one global cooldown. What are you running to be hit for 25k??? Maybe you hit noobs for 25k that have 10k resist and no crit resist but that’s not a good point of reference for max hitting someone. Go in to high mmr bg and tell me cross healing isn’t an issue lol, and lmk what your max hit is against perma block 35k resist players is
@@devenmane541 13k-14k is inbetween the 2 numbers I gave, all values between the two can be valid...and no one holds block the entire time in any pvp area, cyro people ride on mounts, you can't ride a mount and hold block at same time and there are hidden gankers that attack when you dont know you need to be holding block...tell me you never cyro without outright saying it.
Back to your number example, hmm even 12k damage is higher than 5k in heals per second. My point is basically all damage is higher than the heals. Heals nerfed at 55% in cyro, block only mitigates 50% of damage leaving you hit for 50% or less based on resistances, in middle of casting then get hit full force, enjoy. Lets see 50% of 12k is 6k hit in a second while just holding base block, and yet heals are closer to 4k a second if got 2 or more heals depending on your heal amount....that is still 2k higher in damage done.
Also I tend to think heals are healing too much if 1 player can survive 5 or more players attacking them same time and they are taking massive damage during that time and rehealing. If however like you say they have such high resistances and hold block always, then no surprise their health isnt moving much and they really dont need much healing to stay alive in that case anyway....so nerfing healing wont do much would it? Maybe what you really want is a block nerf and a resistances nerf :)
If in a 3v1 yes I agree the 1 should lose and none of the 3 die, otherwise its a bit unrealistic right. But that is saying all 4 players are equal: gear, stats, skills, and ping. More than likely at least one or more of 4 players will be unequal in one or more of those things. One or more might hit the wrong couple buttons, get stuck in a wagon handle, get stuck in a wall, panic and forget to calmly keep resources up to deal with a flurry of attacks or need to break free/roll dodge.
This game is highly ping dependant, to a point it can make a great player with gold gear/stats lose to a brand new player with bad gear n stats...example: any lag spike. Now imagine always playing with a lag spike that allows no weaving, because I do, and I know the difference since my ping wasnt always so high. The point being I don't advocate the game slow all other players down to my ping lag to be fair play. If another player has teammates or friends willing to give them extra heals and they are close enough to do so, that is their bonus in the game just as people with fast ping on server number 1 is those players bonus in the game. Maybe get you some friends so its 3v3 instead of 3v1, then you all can have extra healing, and it will then be only ping, gear, and skill dependent.
I think this is just a mmo thing SWTOR pvp is still trying to figure things out
Lol
who is John Galt?
the game is ass but im addicted af. FIX THE GAME
The only way to win is to uninstall fixing the game was never in the cards
Do people expect the machinists that make basketball hoops be able to sink freethrows?
No but at least understand basketball players casual or elite and their feedback with the hoop on how to improve it
@@EmantheChosen When was the last time a factory worker updated a rule in basket ball? not every single person at studio is responsible for every decision made and they are not all experts at playing the game.
@@mariop8852 We're talking about the lead combat designer here. Not just some "factory worker." What a terrible analogy.
@@EmantheChosenlove your content
Braindead take overall
These people need to go outside, the reason the game seems to be "dieing" is because you spent 10k hours an 10 years of your life doing the same things over and over.
If you think a few game devs can entertain you for the rest of your life, you need a reality check.
shaming your customers is not a smart strategy. maybe listening to honest crit will make you better. if people feel some way about something they have a right to and devs should be strong enough to listen and respond even if its tough to. doesnt mean they have to agree. critique makes you better if your open to it. shaming is not useful and leads to customers not feeling listened to and companies getting less money. its dumb from a business perspective as well.
" a few game devs "
When will Todd Howard answer for his crimes
@Mikey-uj3dc do you not understand how the game is managed on the backend?
@@marsmotionthey've listened to the content creators before. It was Gilliam the rogue and update 35. The one that killed most of the playerbase
grimsforge gets to arc 7 in Infinite Archive and he considers himself a "race car driver" XD. sucking up to Nefas, dropping a lot of big names. if that's NA community's current top brass I perfectly understand why the devs have left the chat...
I’m a pvper trying pve 😅❤
Started playing other games, ESO is in a bad spot.