THE ORDER OF PRIMARCH RETURNS! HAS IT ALREADY BEEN REVEALED?
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- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
- Hey everyone Wolf Lord Rho here! Today we discuss the return of the loyalist Space Marine Primarchs to the Imperium. As we ask if the previous vision by Space Wolves Rune Priest Njal Stormcaller has proven to be correct or wrong...
A Spoiler Warning to begin as the events we're discussing today are from the Warhammer 40,000 story "Ashes of Prospero" by author Gav Thorpe. As always I really recommend you read the stories for yourself first without spoilers! As that's the best way to enjoy the lore for yourself!
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The moment Corvis Corax returns, my wallet will let out a scream heard throughout the warp....😅
"a psyhic scream echoing from terra to the galactic rift"
Same for me, but I'm waiting for Rogal Dorn.
Mine just came back …… one day My Dark Angels army will have their father in the line up .
@kharnthebetrayer1575 i had 2500pts of 2nd edition Dark Angels I sold years ago. Now I have about 1000pts with a Lion model, still unassembled.
The money I spent over the years make me cry.....🥲
@ I don’t even know the points on my DA or GK anymore. But fairly decent points. My GK where my apocalypse army with 10 squads of 10 man terminators, a super heavy baneblade variant. And my Prized OG Grey Knight terminators that were in the 92 white dwarf magazine.
For me it would be the khan.
I look forward to everyone's return, but only if GW decides to... you know... do something with them. Lion's been back about 2 years now and he hasn't even touched base with Rob yet, it's ridiculous.
They've recently hired Aaron Dembski-Bowden as the new Head of Narrative at GW so hopefully things pick up.
Agree 10000%.
Im just worried that other characters are going to get forgotten in all the primarch hype i love the primarchs but i dont want them to become the be all and end all
Has it really been that long now?
@@xenocide1307 Man... Time be movin...
Lorgar: hello galaxy it’s been a while !
Corax: hello brotheeeeeeeer
Just want to point out, given the pseudo Norse pantheon theme around all of the Space Wolves lore: All Father (The Emperor) = Odin. Odin's messengers in Norse myth are ravens. So he could be called back simply by the emperor himself, or by/through his own Ravenguard sons. Either way the symbolism is pretty on the nose, but I personally love that aspect of the Space Wolves.
or corvax, being tasked with finding russ?
@@MrLansonmanthat’s only if you liken Russ to Odin, which nobody did until they saw the Lion age and mellow. I don’t see that as it just being more the way that the space wolves talk/act.
@@dare4207 Corvax being sent to locate Russ wouldn't necessarily make Russ Odin in this analogy, just one of Odin's warriors Huginn and Muninn are sent to as messengers. The Emperor dispatching Corax to bring Russ back still tracks with the analogy of Odin sending out his ravens
Beat me to it! 😊
Russ is Fenris wolf and Odin mixed, Fenris wolf thats supposed to kill Odin at ragnarock but bound in loyalty.
The Emperor plays dangerous games.
The only thing Lorgar is doing is staying in a very well lit room peaking out the windows, praying to whoever will listen that a certain shadow doesn't show up.
😂
@wolflordrho in nature ravens will adopt wolves and lead them to prey in a symbiotic relationship. I'd love to see Corax lead Leman Russ out of the warp. Only after Jaghatai returns of course!
Seeing the Khan come back, on a mighty steed no less would be great. Something about the Salamanders on GW release road map, makes me hopeful for the lord of drakes, however.
They’re probably just getting their update since they haven’t had anything for years now. Starting with their primarch would be ignoring more popular armies.
Well Vulkan is already here. He’s a perpetual and in War of the Beast he was just out on some random world fighting so he’s most definitely in the setting they just haven’t found him in 7,000 years since the horrible war of the beast trash books. 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️ They need to retcon that series of turds.
Vulkan can be plugged in whenever they want. Probably when the golden throne starts melting down
Stomping intensifies
"Allfather's messengers" could also be a reference to the Word Bearers that he's been terrorizing.
Once Corax returns I'm going broke!
@5:44
"..you were expecting CORAX!? BUT IT WAS I! -DIO- ALPHARIUS!!". (no really, the shadow within thing was the legion's whole bit during the GC/HH, so maybe, probably who knows lol)
JoJo reference? Man I really need to check that out.
I actually read that the same way, I think it might be two different listings, the “shadow…” (Corax) and a “darkness that fights from within”
😂😂😂😂.
Good to knoq that so many people like Corax.
I think that the Emperor could call out to Corax something like this.
> deep in the warp. Bubbling hot plasma colors roll off of each other in sickening maddness.
> Daemon Corvus stalks the brimstone city of somewhere. Maybe getting close Lorgar?
> something is happening in the realspace galaxy and the Emperor "wakes" because of how bad it is.
> Big Es awakening creates a massive, beautiful looking light display inside the warp.
> Corax immediately knows that this The Emperors Call
in nordic mytology Odin ueses crows & ravens to spy and send messages, that is probably what the all-fathers messengers line is about
Yeah, it probably just means "the ravens' call"
Considering Fulgrim's return I do think it would make the most sense for Jaghatai to come back next; if for no other reason than they definitely have a rivalry that was never concluded. Especially since the Khan absolutely roasted Fulgrim in front of his brothers. During that scene the stage was certainly set for a duel between them, but it never happened. Instead he fought Mortarion (which made sense as well) but since that has already happened we could have the Khan vs Fulgrim (now ascended) duel we've been waiting for.
Primarch's coming back is nice but they have done Nothing with the Lion let alone make new stories or plans for another.
Lion killed Angron then lost Caliban to some chaos guy
That was it
I think Jaghatai will be the next to return because of his speed and duelling skills to counter Fulgrim.
We need that fight that was foreshadowed during the primarch group chat.
Also don't forget that their pods in the beginning were switched to different planets.
@ So there is a definite binding between them.
Noice
while the Khan could be just trapped in the webway in a time dilation effect, I would think Corax will have to have accomplished something during his long absence. After proving unable to kill Lorgar, maybe he has been on a long hunt and kills Kor Phaeron, thus starting a long feud between the Word Bearers and the Raven Guard. Kor Phaeron hasn't had an appreciable affect on the lore / storyline since the horus heresy anyway, and he's easily replaced by Erebus.
Starting? The Raven Guard hate the Word Bearers for Istvaan
Unable to kill Lorgar?
Lol ,lmao even.
@TheCorax yeah I was gonna say corvus was top 5 duelists pre ascension, I would imagine he is an absolute monster now
The All Fathers messengers, pretty obvious reference to Odin Ravens Muunin and Hugin, given the wolves view everything through a Norse lens, I’m guessing Raven Guard will cause their fathers return.
They will..
Jagatai being next makes sense, he would add the most to the narrative at this point.
What if he returns that unlocked his latent psycher powers and he goes even more faster 😂
Out of sincere curiosity, what do you see him adding? I've never really understood the appeal of Jaghatai or his potential role in a 40k's imperium.
When Lorgar returns the Emperor will call Corax.back to destroy him because if it transpires the imperial creed is actually the books of Lorgar then it could destroy the faith in the Emperor.
Well, once lorgar comes back, Corvus will follow suit
You bet ...
Chatgpt said Russ is definitely coming back first. 😂
Someone give me a heads up when Corvus catches Lorgar and when Kharn catches Erebus. 🙏
I will..
How about the only really cool demon Primarch: Perturabo?
I'd love for Perturabo returned. I just hope he isn't a demon.
I think with Corax it will be the RG in trouble. The All Fathers messengers were two ravens. He will answer his sons call.
I think you misinterpreted the Corvus reference.
"A shadow rises to the call of the All-father's messengers, a darkness that strikes from within."
The All-father's Messengers is likely the Word Bearers. We all know that Corvus has a murder boner for them. I would say that Lorgar puts out a call for a gathering of the Legion and Corax messes him/them up.
My favorite
The only thing that makes it make any sense is if they are making references to the crows that Odin (the All-father) uses to watch the world or something like that
Lorgar is The Golden One
Just a point of knowledge corvus corax has already been attacking the word bearers/lorgar in a form of a Raven/crow so in the proficy 7:33 it says the the allfather's messager and knowing the sons of Fenris are norse inspired it makes sense that in the form of a raven
The Khan returning next would be so amazing, he's by far my favorite primarch and since his story revolves around the drukhari, maybe they continue the Ynnead-plotline.
Umbra sumus.
4:37 I do agree something about being on a bike doesn’t feel very commanding compared to on foot, so a good compromise is the Khan on a mount like some Xeno creature he tamed, befriended, or other and he rides it into battle
PLease bring Corax back already!!!! MAYBE SHADOWKYN TOO ?!!?!?! Ill start a Raven Guard army soon as they get Corax back, even though, My one dislike of Corax, was his hate for Terran born marines in the Crusade era, by that dislike, it reached into 40k with several renegade chapters as well as traitor Raven Guard.
That's because the og terran borns went against everything he stood for lol
They were bloodthirsty and murderous, and while they were loyal and disciplined he knew they were liabilities and so he sent them to the places where they could be themselves, the farthest reaches of the galaxy. Places where bloodthirsty murderous a-holes are needed. He allowed them to keep their honor, lineage and gene seed. A pretty just thing for him to do.
They’ve been dropping so many hints for Russ the past couple years, he’s clearly the most likely. This actually got me wondering though whether it’s actually misdirection… 🤨
I’m kinda meh on Russ personally, like Vikings are so overdone in pop-culture right now. They’re basically the new zombies at this point, so part of me would love it if he’s really a fake-out. 🧟♂️
Beyond how I feel about him though, Russ and the Lion are pretty similar in terms of narrative role & archetype. They’re both melee powerhouses, they’re both anti-warp/anti-chaos, they’re both best-suited to long independent missions/campaigns “doggedly” (heh) pursuing an epic foe/conquest, whether as a knight on a quest to slay a dragon or a Viking on a saga across vast oceans. They both contrast Guilliman in the same way, with him being the grand strategist managing 1000 problems at once, playing his chess pieces across a vast board. 🏞️
Jaghatsi, on the other hand… he’d contrast both Guilliman and the Lion. He can carve out a role separate from either of them. And it’d be completely outta left-field, for him to show up with zero foreshadowing, which now that I think about it… would be kinda perfect for him as a character. ⚡️
Last unrelated thought before this turns into an essay… I’d originally hoped Vulkan would be back sooner than later, but this also got me thinking he’d be perfect to be the last. He was the Emperor’s contingency, the deadman’s switch, the doomsday solution. But he also best embodies the Emperor’s true humanity & compassion, having endured more suffering for the sake of mankind than any other primarch. (Literally dying over and over to the point of momentary insanity…) ❤️🔥
It really would be fitting for Vulkan to arrive only at the eleventh hour, at the most desperate moment, ready either to annihilate the entire galaxy… or light the spark of hope that restores the Emperor’s soul, vanquishing chaos once and for all. 🌟
OK… never mind, essay complete. Whatever, ship it. 🚢
I've been reading White Scars novels for a while, and I think I know HOW Jaghatai will have changed. His greatest fear is being crippled, and unable to run free. So possibly lost his legs, or paralyzed.
I think he will be in the webway, and that will be an important setting, since orks and chaos now have access to it.
It’s funny how many Odin references for characters there are. Russ was one till it pretty much shifted to the Emperor. But I always noticed the Magnus one from the lore too. A powerful hunter of knowledge sacrificing one of his eyes to gain hidden knowledge on how to prevent the destruction of his people. He then falls to the wolf during the destruction of his world.
Well. Lore wise, Russ should be the very last Primarch to return to the setting. He himself said he would return for The Wolf Time, essentially the End Times for 40K, the last and darkest hour. Such an event would claim for either the presence of Big E or for his return right after, but for this Russ would need to complete his Tree of Life quest. So, yeah, Russ should be the last primarch back on stage to either help the Emperor off his throne during The Wolf Time or to help him stand after said time to rebuild the Empire.
That's what GW would do if they weren't afraid of success.
I think Cypher will be the one to go get Corax.
I suspect Corax may've already had communication with the Emperor at some point. He's been in the Eye for... a while. We don't know how long it's been for him, but being that close to the Warp, and having the connection he did with the Emperor before, odds are pretty high he's been contacted somewhere in that time. In any case, if Emps tells him to get back to realspace and help Guilliman, he'll do it. He might not be the same man who went into the Eye, but I'd be surprised if that stubborn loyalty has changed.
To anyone who doubts it's him... ok sure, that 'darkness strikes from within' line /could/ be Omegon or whatever, possibly, if it isn't simply referring to Corax hunting within the enemy's territory (the Eye). But the bit about the Allfather's messengers is absolutely about the Raven Guard (because Odin used ravens as messengers), and the shadow is Corax - he's always held that title in some form or other. The Shadows Conceal, The Eternal Shadow, etc. It's definitely him.
I think Corvis will return soon since the latest living saint is described to have black smokey wings
I bet it will, and with El'Lion, we kinda have the confirmation that the prophecy is at the very least up to a good start.
A custodian book where a custodian group with some SoS go to find corax and summon him back would be amazing 🎉
When the Khan returns I'd like to see his 40k mini have the option between building him on foot or on the jetbike.
Angron was the first since he was on Armageddon and Fulgrim was mentioned being around in the Bequin novels and those technically take place a while back
If that is a prophecy of a possible order in which the loyalist primarchs returns, I'd love to see them fulfill the other Wolves' prophecy of what their wyrds (roles) are:
One to be heir to the Emperor’s throne. (Guilliman)
One to fortify the defences of the Imperium. (Dorn)
One to guard the hearth. (Vulkan)
One to watch the distant perimeter. (Khan)
One to command the armies. (Lion)
One to control intelligences. (Corax)
One to be the executioner. (Russ)
Corax confirmed alive for the longest time and left behind in a throw away short story chasing demon lorgar. Gw can be so cruel sometimes 😢😢
I'm pretty sure "Darkness striking from within" is a reference to Corax being a depressive emo.
Unless the "All Father's Messengers" refers to the original purpose of the latter day's Legion of Word Bearers.
That makes the most sense to me.
There is no real heralds that a Primarch will heed, apart from Custodians, but that seems unlikely in their current role with their General missing.
It would be incredible if the king in yellow storyline would somehow be involved in corax's return.
I just want to say, technically, Aangron was around during the first war for armageddon. He was the first to be back in the lore or written in at least
I'll be extatic when corvus gets announced
i love this theory and i really really want this to happen, it would make tons of sense with my own personal theory that each returning primarch will have an area of the galexy to protect: Guilliman with the imperium, Lion with the dark half, khan with the webway (which i think will get more focus soon) and corvus with the warp
I'm just thinking that the white scars and raven guard arn't mega popular so idk if if they'll come back instead of the more popular ones, aka russ and sanguinius and possibly dorn
Once the Primarchs return, the final battle with their chaos brothers shall begin and it ends with only one of several fates for the galaxy.
Couldn't Russ also be the "all father" Corax answers to? He and Russ were pretty close after all
"Rises to the call of the Allfather's messengers" - in Norse mythology Odin (the Allfather) used ravens as his messengers. Maybe he'll return at the call of his sons?
Vulkan's return requires the collection of his Artifacts.
What happens if the idea of the all father is Russ as a more mature character with corvus there as a hugin or munin idea. Just a thought
I still believe the next primarch to return will be Jaghatai, mainly because of the Eldar resurgence and return of Fulgrim. It goes back all the way to when they were scattered across the stars. Its pretty commonly presumed that the deity which switched the planets Fulgrim and Jaghatai would end up on was Cegorach. The presumption makes sense because it probably effected which one of the two would fall to slaanesh, and for Cegorach Fulgrim was the much better option. And then we come to last sighting of the khan which was him charging into the webway when chasing down the Drukhari. He has not been seen since, so he is probably still lost in there. Cegorach resides within the webway, and he can easily get an audience with the Khan, explaining to him the circumstances of the galaxy and fulgrim and slaanesh and everything else involved. Or he could get Eldrad to do meet him, which could mirror Eldrad's meeting with Fulgrim but this time ending on a positive note. Regardless, the Khan could be easily convinced to work alongside the Eldar and fight against his brother who has just returned, and possibly in the process help the Ynnari collect the last cronesword. This will also fulfill the promised duel between the Khan and Fulgrim that was set up back during the Heresy.
I could see the lock wardens (I think that’s their name, the keepers of the dark cells) could be the ones to find him while they’re attempting to recover an escaped subject from the dark cells.
It's obviously leman russ next as they are a separate faction, need a range refresh etc... would make the most money as well. After that who knows as all faction specific primaries will be back
The return of corax will be linked to the return of Lorgar.
For this, a return of the Kahn to balance against Fulgrim makes sense.
Now, Khan is currently closest to returning. For a simple reason.. The place of the next events will certainly be a web way, where an item of great power is hidden.
I think Corvis is going to be the herald of the emperor, while he is in the eye he will be guided by the emperor and so will appear at the very moment he is needed by his brothers.
Considering the Khan is one of the best duelists and one of the fastest Primarchs I think his return would be the best counter to Fulgrim
I know he is not a Primarch, but I would love to see more of Constantine Valdor.
I think Valdor will come back with Russ
@mementomori771 That would RULE.
Valdor will likely be featured heavily in the final Bequin book as we know he is the King in Yellow.
@dare4207 I need to get back into that series.
Valdor is building some sort of army.
The only one NOT mentioned is Perturabo. And I'm really hoping that when he does return, it's explosive and severely rocks the imperium. Requiring either Rogal coming back, Vulcan or maybe even both to defeat him and the reunited 4th. One can only dream lol.
I am the only one who thinks that the Return of the Traitor Primarch's could be still in Order? Angron returned during the first War of Armageddon right? Or the Last Stand from Rylanor, where Fulgrim said hi, sure he got blasted out again but he was there...
The call that returns Corax, may be a ritual summoning, as much as a literal calling, as he's widely thought to have embraced daemonhood
Not daemonhood, just his own Warp-derived nature. He's not allied with Chaos and is immune to anti-daemon wards. He won't come out unless he wants to. But if his sons need him enough, or the Emperor commands it directly, he WILL answer.
you think Corax's return will somehow will be tied to the secret of marine creation? Cawl maybe switching his priorities in the future?
Allfather's messengers could be Ravens mate, Allfather might be Odon and his messengers are Ravens?
If Jaghatai is coming back next Morty wont be coming out anytime soon 😂 the dude dont wanna eat dust again for the 3rd time🤣🤣
The probably is narratively, they haven't done anything with the Primarches that already returned.
Loyalist: ORDER so they will return in order
CHAOS: They are chaos, the lack of order is basically CHAOS
Angron returned first, in the first battle for Armageddon, Fulgrim returned second, During the 13th Black Crusade, followed by Mortarion, and then Magnus.
For me, the return of Corax is tied to the return of Lorgar. Also, as much as I would like to see Russ return next, he may end up being the last to return. It is said his return will signal the end times. That he would return for the final battle. He is also destined to die wielding the spear at that time.
Well, assuming the returning primarchs are following the story then the order seems likely. Fulgrim’s launch is next obviously. Which leaves the Khan, Corvus and Lorgar from the descriptions. I assume the loyalists are going to come back following a big threat. And well, the Khan makes more since to come back to help handle Fulgrim over Lorgar and Corvus definitely makes more since to be linked to Lorgar over Fulgrim. So yeah Fulgrim is next big threat and maybe tie in the dark eldar and then the Khan. After that it’s Lorgar with Corvus following. After that? We could Perty and Dorn. After the mess the demon primarchs cause, Vashtorr makes a ruckus with Perturabo and the dark mechanicum. The the imperial fist comes forth because of the only thing stronger than his loyalty for the imperium.. His hatred for the iron warriors.
I want Leman Russ to be next after the Lion but I will be happy if we get the Khan.
The Khan coming back would be awesome.
I wish there was a way that Sanguinius could return, He is literally the most popular Primark. Of the remaining loyalists as far as popularity goes its hard to know who is most popular. For me its Guilliman, but a some people just dont like him for some reason., Bottom line is that I think all the Loyalists are pretty darn cool. How will the loyalists even contend with the traitors who are much stronger and more powerful than them? Perhaps if the big E is ascended as a true deity perhaps he can empower his sons much like Chaos has done?
No, not at all. He can’t come back it would make his sacrifice and the tragedy of the HH meaningless. He’s the only primarch who can’t return as he was. At best he’ll be around in the form of the sanguinor. But 99% of the fanbase even BA players agree he can’t return.
@@dare4207 you have not read last hh book yes? xDDD
The messengers are "The Word Bearers"
Coral will stand over lorgar is about to drop the hammer. Then big E will shake the temple they are in and appear to both brothers and tell corax to leave lorgar alone and head home. Corax will be super pissed but he will turn away from lorgar and do as his father asked him. Lorgar will be half dead but still see what happened and be extremely shaken.
All Father Messengers = The Word Bearers?
Corax has been going after Lorgar recently.
LOL What do I think? I thought since second edition Lion 'El would be first and Guilliman would be close to last as he was poisoned and in statis and frankly wouldn't like what has happened to his father's empire let alone his empire the Lion OTOH WANTS to be Warmaster! He was before his coma already backroom wrangling and lobbying to be the next Warmaster with Perturabo, and doing it like a seasoned politician. He is morally flexable (he has enough unexplained artifacts to give the Inquisition fits) enough to deal with the Ecclesiarchy and his father as a God, he could probably get over his father seeing him as a tool too! (something btw that nearly shattered Guilliman,) Thats his daddy didn't love him back the way he loved him, instead he loved him like a tool he lost and found again. I think my reasons were sound but somewhere in GW headquarters they wanted Guilliman "The perfect Son" as Angron labeled him to be first. And when you think about it the only guy who really understood Guilliman was Malcador (and the fallen primarchs once they entered the great game Horus and Logar changed opinions of him favorably) the Lion should have been first I stand by that
It would be awesome to see Logar trying to trap/ambish corax, only for Russ or the khan to step in “hey little brothers…”
Ambush Corax????
Hahaahahab good luck with that
@ I did say try, and anger is a hell of a drug
Or big E sends saguinius or ferrus as saints to corax in the eye to tell him to head home as he is about to kill lorgar. Lorgar sees the saint and is scared then he two follows to see what is happening.
What are/ who are «cargan» 13:20-13:30?
Someone else pointed this out. This is really a cool idea. But they gotta do some real narrative work.
Which is very difficult, considering Warhammer has an . . . *Interesting* pipeline of consuming the property. Quite honestly, games and shows would be the easiest way to go, if they want access ability
I think it was the plan at one point, but it got changed.
Oh man! I want dorn back
Imagine Ferrus and Curze stumbling around in the warp and finding the wrong heads. Plus. Should you have a perpetual as in Vulkan. Who is the perpetual disloyal prime arrchibald
He didn’t mention anything about Alpharius/Omegon? Or even Perturabo?
Goddamn it Curze. You and your vindication
What is the misbegotten child was Typhus
The emperors messages…word bearers? Given him hunting lorgar not a stretch
soo what about Alpharius? he's been mentioned recently too
I would love for the Khan to come back; he would take the fight straight to Chaos.
I mean they have already been leading up to the kargan with the chaos jaunt into the webway
Yeah, no Russ, that's for the Wolftime aka 40k's End Times.
Dorn and Vulkan might be out for good, beign a perpetual doesn't mean not going to kroak.
Numbers do look nasty for imps, though.
Good thing Perturabo isn't coming out to play.
Big Dog is coming home.
Maybe not very soon, but he is.
I think the Yellow King will be next, while not a primary, certainty gmhe would be a great call back and narrative element
I mean yea he’s basically all but finalized his return pending the outcome of the final Bequin novel.
I don’t see how a primarch can return and not have a dedicated codex for their army. I just can’t see Jaghatai being in a generic space marine book.
Robute IS the primarch for the current space marine book as it’s heavily focused on Ultramarines.
So before the next loyalist returns (if it’s not Russ) then that issue needs to be resolved.
Tbh a well written Datasheet for the Khan and a couple of variant Outrider/ATV units would be more than sufficient. White Scars don’t have to be and have never had to be massively divergent rules wise to be unique, both in game or in fluff.
Njals order of loyalist primarchs may be as simple as the numerical order of the legions they represent.
They are going to have equal number of loyal and traitor primarchs alive.
And I could imagine that Iron Warriors join Vashtor, when he gets to be he fifth chaos god.
Vashtor won’t become a chaos god, he’ll try and fail in spectacular fashion. The existing 4 wouldn’t let it and even Belakor is actively against him. He’s significant in that he’s a chaos entity not bound to any of the others and that alone makes him special. But he won’t ascend, the 5th chaos god is the Dark King, if there ever will be one it would be the Emperor and he has already forsaken that spot once even when it seemed he had no better options.