Reprocussion 008: Colt 1851 USA
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
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Othais and Mae delve into the story of this classic firearm. Complete with history, function, and live fire demonstration.
C&Rsenal continues to present in-depth small arms history every other week. Join us each Tuesday!
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Additional reading:
Samuel Colt: Arms, Art, and Invention
Herbert G. Houze
Remington Army & Navy Revolvers 1861-1888
Donald L. Ware
Adam's Revolvers
WHJ Chamerlain & AWF Taylerson
Revolvers of the British Services
1854 - 1954
'51 Colt Navies
Nathan L. Swayze
Colt 1851 and 1861 Navies & Conversions
Robert M. Jordan & Don W. Geri
The Colt Model 1860 Army Revolver
Charles. W. Pate
The Story of Colt's Revolver
William B. Edwards
Colt Firearms from 1836
James E. Serven
Samuel Colt: A Man and an Epoch
Martin Rywell
Yankee Arms Maker
Jack Rohan
Ammunition data thanks to DrakeGmbH
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Animations by Bruno!
/ @baanimations3689
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I don't want to be one of THOSE commenters, but I've had a heck of a day with work that has chased me into the evening and to unwind and not only see a C&Rsenal video pop up but a reprocussion episode is like a warm gentle wave washing over me. Absolutely love your work and I hope everyone involved in these videos are well and happy because you bring happiness to others
WDYM “those” commenters? 🤨
You mean one of those commentators that thank them for their content, appreciate how it helps you in your life, and does so politely?
Reprocussion 🤔
@@bobskoolOh he'll no. You don't want to be one of those m×£% .........Excuse me, forgot my manners
@@bobskoolOh he'll no. You don't want to be one of those m×£% .........Excuse me, forgot my manners
And, yes. The English DID forget how to cure Scurvy for awhile... or they never really got the mechanism for curing scurvy in the first place and cocked it up.
Vitamin C cures Scurvy, best place to get this is fresh foods especially fresh fruit and Especially fresh citrus. One of the reasons England ruled the waves from the jump in the days of high sail was the endurance of their crews because of their 'Lime Ration' hence why they're still called 'Limeys' today.
Buuuut... nobody knew about the vitamin connection, it'd be awhile before vitamins were even discovered. And originally 'Lime' was just the British term for sour citrus fruits, not for a specific fruit. Originally the 'Lime' ration was Sicilian lemons, Very high in Vitamin C. but then as time and technology and 'Britishness' progressed they moved to Caribbean limes, less Vitamin C but still enough to get by. Then they moved from fresh fruits to processed fruit squeezins, made by boiling the fruit in copper vessels, which didn't spoil but the boiling and the copper destroyed the vitamins. By this time ships were fast enough crews wouldn't have time to develop Scurvy and the issue didn't make itself known until the polar expeditions where they were away from fresh food for long enough for it to be a problem... and that's a whole other interesting story but I've talked yall's ears off enough already.
I’d be down to hear that story. Never knew about the lime ration.
didnt know they lost it when trying boiled limes. but what about the saurkraut? lol
@@Lomi311 "Grog" was a daily rationed issuance of rum mixed with water and lime, where the lime was added to the liquor to force the sailors to drink it as a preventative of scurvy. The daily rum ration in the British navy persisted until 1977.
Clearly the strength of the British Navy was due to their sailors being permanently buzzed at that optimum intoxication level right before things go downhill...
On a completely unrelated note, one of the most common reasons for flogging in the British Navy was for drunkenness...
I attended a merchant naval school with traditions going back hundreds of years.
Upon leaving (graduating) we would pick two oranges behind our backsfrom a barrel. We had to pick them without seeing so we couldn't choose the best ones. Then as my school was on a dock side, traditionally the lads would walk straight onto a ship, oranges in hand. Just my two cents. I was schooled at Hull Trinity House
You sir, are a true gentleman and scholar for sharing this bit of knowledge!
Glad to see Eras Gone mentioned.
Mark really did his homework getting them as close as possible to the original bullets
This has some of the most Samuel Colt things I've ever heard.
Yup, while I love the company and its products its founder was a complete a-hole.
@@DK-gy7llif you think of him as the ye olde tech bro, it makes so much sense.
The further in this series, all I can continually conclude is that Colt is an absolute madlad. And that's putting it mildly.
My favourite part of these stories so far is seeing how many dodgy things Sam Colt would get up to. You could do a "Wolf of Wall Street" type movie about him.
One of the best looking firearms ever made.
On the iron navy frames. To be fair rusty frames is a small problem compared to a rusty action. And if they are oiling the inside of the bore and action parts they are going to oil the outsides including the frame?
On shooting them with bad caps. Nothing ramps up your day like a cap shard or two between the palm and pistol grips during an attempt at a fast run during a SASS cowboy action match. I rapidly learned to roll my hand hard over to the right to let them drop free while cocking. Being left handed would be a big plus for shooting C&B revolvers.
Really enjoyed this episode. All of your videos are great but this one really hit home for me.
The choice of brass may have been because it is non-sparking. The brass parts of the pistol would be those that would most likely come into contact with horse tacking or rifle parts. Also, brass is still easier to work than iron, so it may have been manufacturing expedient.
I recall Sten gun bolts were occasionally made from brass for the same reason, speed of manufacture. It was quicker to cast brass bolts than machine the steel bolt from round stock, though apparently parts wear may have been an issue. The geometry of the brass and steel bolts are different, so there’s that.
amen brother that cap fragment is HOT
I don't always comment, but I just wanted to say that I thoroughly enjoy every video produced. I enjoy nerding out to the historical information on each firearm.
22:18 loading 23:35 firing
I have a Pietta "Reb Nord" 1851 which is supposed to reproduce confederate 1851 reproductions made during the war. It is different to standard 1851s in that it is brass frame and .44 caliber. Don't let anyone tell you that brass frame Italian replicas will not last. I have had mine for 28 years and have fired countless thousands of rounds through it and is still as tight as when it was new. If does have a gas cut in the steel cylinder base pin that goes about 20% of the way through. I guess I should replace that at some stage!
They did the thing!
Really love these Primers, thanks for the work
Brass and salt water don't always mix well, especially for items stored in low decks. Where they're treating iron items all the time, so that might be part of the reason why the Navy went iron strap.
You think Colt was hoping that guy spent all his money at the brothel and had to sell his land?
The Colt Navy is my 3rd favourite revolver of all time.
Great shot group Mae.
I feel we were denied a chance for "War Were Declared" at 36:00
I haven't seen them do that in years, sadly
@@MarkAndrewEdwards I know, but with this being a different war, it would have been a good easter egg
I would have liked to see more of a comparison with single shot ram rod type guns. Cause if you have to use that stand to reload vs being able to reload anywhere I'd think it might actually be easier to deal with the single shot.
James Butler “Wild Bill” Hickok approves
I didn't know that Brigham Young was gifted colt revolvers. I learn something interesting every time I watch C&Rsenal.
love the reprocussion series! Please do Whitney's and Spiller and Burrs!
Thank you once again for yet another episode of your wonderful series! It is absolutely greatly appreciated!
Getting the chambers reamed on these repros makes all the difference, they all have undersized chambers especially pietta.
I’d say someone needs to make a biopic about Sam Colt but I don’t think there’s a film studio in existence that can make one half as fascinating as the real history.
I just got some Ballistol, going to give it a try.
My dad was in the british merchant navy in the 1980's and he got a touch of scurvy! I guess rhey re-forgot about the fruit and vegetables..again.
I WISH he'd been issued a paradoxically unbrassy wheelgun tho!
Thank you for your amazing work, Matthias and May! You guys are amazing!
Woo! Dads back with revolvers for everyone!
44:45 i actually find this technique to work phenomenally with my Remington 1858 clone. For me when i slide my hand up the grip, the valley of the hammer spur slots into the web between the thumb and forefinger. Then all it takes is letting gravity pull down the 7.5 inch octagonal barrel and it drops the sights right on target with the gun cocked. I don't put any force into tossing the gun forward or down, its a slight squeeze of the hand like a handshake and the weight of the barrel acting as a lever
Really enjoying this Series. Keep up the great work. If you ever get the chance to shoot originals, i highly recommend it. Only problem is its extremely hard to go back to the replicas. Before you know it you will be living in a box..but you will have a nice colt collection.
oh jeeze, 10 minutes in and sam colt being shady already
Colt being colt 😂
I’m surprised it took him that long
This was a thoroughly entertaining episode, thanks! The story of the Walsch amendment is especially enlightening.
Also, I would agree with Othias, looking at extant mid-nineteenth century waistcoats I don't see pockets large enough to fit Colt Pocket Model in them. I would say these were for coat pockets.
I am basically destitute. I appreciate your content.
Will there be a video on the Richard-Mason conversions?
Love this channel. The depth of history & engineering along with professional presentation is great. I wish I could contribute but financially that is not wise for me. I do click like on every episode & tell people about you. Please Keep up the good work.
The brass frames are more prone to stretch than the steel frame. Also the brass frame is sometimes referred to as the confederate model.
Maybe saddle, belt and pocket models would be the best designations but then there is still reason to find some way to indicate how far along the spectrum of changes the gun is.
Oh sweet. I had really missed this! Thank you all!!
Love your show. Thank you for your work.
Thank you for @55:39 ; As a pedantic-jackass I've been saying "Language belongs to the people who use it; _not_ the [passed/past] that [created] it." since my high-school; And your point @56:03 that "...we've gotten too hung up on looking for an origin point, but that's not how we're supposed to use language; We're supposed to use [language] to describe something as quickly and efficiently as possible in a way that everybody understands." directly states the point I've failed to express (succinctly) whenever I've tried to explain _that/why_ the meaning of words are shifted around by the context they're used in --
-- And the understanding that inevitably words shift when their meanings collide (in a living language), And its overall understanding is not broken by some new interpretation alliding with an established definition (like a dead language might).
-- though the roots/origins of those meanings is useful in navigating the wider context(s).
TLDR; Othais and May defended their semantic-change+word-formation in the domain of historical-firearms; With an observation about the utility of language. -- I, Having lost hundreds of hours trying to bridge similar definition gaps between obstant 'learn-ed professionals', deeply appreciate hearing someone *not me* explain this
*and barrel on* uninterrupted.
Also (I repeat again); "PhD's are _very_ specific for a reason..."
looking forward to the Stevens 520-30 episode... eventually...
Is the 1851 called the “Navy” because of the scene roll engraved on the cylinder? I think I heard that as an explanation long ago.
I understand this Mae have already been covered 😉 But could a "short" or second channel episode be made about how these are made? If not, that is completely understandable. Thanks! Another great episode 👏
It would have to be off YT because of the stupid rules. They allready have to dance around them at times as TY gets mad anytime you make educational content on engineering devices that happen to go boom.
in my reproductions with properly sized/reamed chambers I have found the ball to be more consistently accurate than conicals.. In the war of Northern aggression both sides pretty much all claimed that the ball hit harder or at least as hard. The 51 grip was so good that it is used on the 1873.
OK this is not going to be Edit 4, it needs to be it's own post, to fill in some of the gaps. As this episode is focused on Reproduction models, it must be noted that multiple manufactureres produce this model. Models from Uberti and Pietta are common, I havde a Pietta, by way of Taylor Firearms. One major thing to be aware of is that the 1851 is available in multiple calibers these days. The next is that depending on your caliber and manufacturer, you may need to modify your barrel assembly (For lack of a better term) to use conical bullets. I have opted for the .44 Johnston and Dow bullet from Eras Gone, and i needed to enlarge the cutout, as well as modify the loading rammer to get things to work right. Your milage may vary, but these are things to keep in mind.
Well done guys. Great episode as allways.
'When we talk about the Adams' can't wait!
Another problem with modern caps is that they're thinner and harder than the historical caps made for Colts. Modern caps are more similar to the caps made for Remingtons.
I got a feeling that an iron frame was cheaper and stronger than brass/bronze/copper something.
Ah the Colt Belt Model. The weapon that ended the age of the duel and cleared the way for the age of the gunfighter. An elegant weapon for a more civilized age.
Oh I live in Aachen. Didnt expect my city in this video lmao
It's been reported that the paper cartridges for the 36 caliber revolver were all made with conical bullets. During the War of Yankee Aggression, the cartridges were made with many different powder loads. There were also many different suppliers. Some were somewhat under powered. Overpowering was not an issue because all the powder you could get in the chamber and still get a conical bullet to fit under the frame was your best load.
Thanks again for the wonderful content.
I know that it pretty much says in the title that the focus of this series are "repro" revolvers, but while you're on the topic of percussion arms... is there a slight chance you fellows might cover the Adams (seeing that Arsa from Spain has started producing some prototypes) or even the Kerr?
Hello from camp mujok Korea
So, I started out watching, after about 10 minutes, I was at the Uberti website, and shopping for a navy pistol. Ya got me!
Re: naming confusion.
The 1859 book "The Prairie Traveler" By Capt. Marcy refers to the two different sizes as the Army and Navy models. He has some interesting observations on the relative power and convenience of the two models for pre-Civil War western travel. His comments on firearm safety are "interesting".
I used to have a reproduction 1851 back in 1972. It was a sweet shooting pistol.
the 51 Colt Navy in .36 caliber was the favored pistol of Quantrill's guerrillas on the Missouri/Kansas Border. The guerrillas found the .36 caliber was more accurate with less ball drop than the .44 ball.
You used the Richmond Laboratories confederate 36cal bullet. Had you chosen the cartridge works 36 cal bullet it would have loaded much easier. Slixshot nipples and polishing the hammer face eliminates the cap jam. Also removing the main spring and slightly changing the straight face to a bit of a tapper. That ads a pound or two to the spring tension that aids holding the caps in place after firing.(Blackie Thomas has a video on it)
I'd love to see a reprocussion video on the Remington 1858 new model army
A wonderful firearm that fits the hand well. Ask Wild Bill.
The navies of the world have been using iron things at sea for years, they would “japan” them (basically shellac or varnish) to prevent rust, so an iron frame pistol isn’t that odd for them. I personally prefer the look of the iron frame over the brass.
Regarding brass vs iron trigger guard etc. brass was easier to cast and machine than iron and I believe that it was cheaper to manufacture. Plus the higher tensile strength of iron and steel was not needed for those parts. As for being shiny, soldiers carried them in a full flap holster fully covering the pistol, grip and all, so sneaking around was not a thing. Few soldiers of the period needed to sneak anywhere unless it was to get away from their sergeant.
Some notes: adding lubricant to the top of the balls makes the gun run smoother and the melted lubricant traps the fouling before it can accumulate on the steel. It makes clean up much easier with less scrubbing. I tend to shoot the first cylinder without lubricant, then grease every cylinder top, the arbor, and the sides of the hammer during loading.
As pointed out at 58:52, the grease blows right out of the other chambers as soon as the first shot is fired
@@lptomtom yes, and onto the arbor, through the barrel, and onto other moving parts. Don’t take my word for it. Go shoot with and without lubing between reloads. It just makes your cleanup job easier. Keep some microfiber rags to wipe off the extra grease after shooting if it bothers you.
The issue of overly tight chambers on reproduction cap and ball pistols appears to be very common - I had the same issue with an 1858 remington repro, and asking around it appears that bending the loading lever or breaking the pin linking the lever to the frame is very common.
Love C&Rsenal!!
Excelente video muy bien documentado, como coleccionista y tirador aprecio mucho toda esta información, saludos desde España 🤠👍
With no knowledge or research. could the navy moniker simply be caused by the roll mark on the cylinder?
do you have a series like this on the Remington 1858 ?
great grouping by mae
All this really makes me grateful for the invention of metallic cartridges.
*hugs Glock*
Aachen is pronounced like "Ahken" or "Awken". We had a camp we trained at that was named after the battle at Aachen. I lived a few years not very far from Aachen.
Othias, I was under the impression that the .45 and .38 caliber pistols were the result of boring out the cylinders for cartridge conversions...??
45:52 If you want to carry the Dragoon on your person it might be better to wear the weapon belt like a bandalier to keep your trousers.
One more reason the model 51 was designated "Belt Sized".
54:00 the 7.5" Barrel sounds more for crossdraw. Do you have any sources how these were worn?
Then the RN had to relearn the scurvy preventions a 3rd time for the Arctic and Antarctic expeditions. Or rather they changed from fruits to patent boiled fruit juiced stored in copper jugs, and it turns out both boiling and copper will neutralize ascorbic acid (vitamin C); but the RN didn't test that the new method was still effective.
And it took them a while to realized it wasn't because, coincidentally, they rolled the revised antiscorbutic out as steam ships were reduced voyage times - so very few of their ships were away from port long enough for sailors to develop scurvy. Until their Arctic and Antarctic expeditions -- when poof scurvy is back. But they refused to believe it because they had this patented antiscorbutic juice.
I was re-watching Mae's Top 10 Rifles on WWI and I noted that Othias said that "all of these rifles have a manual safety" and I have to ask: Is there a rifle with an automatic safety?
The notch in the hammer to hold the cylinder in place when the hammer is down (the safety position you mentioned) contributes to the issue where caps shatter and jam the action. Some people remove the little tits on the cylinder and fill the notch in the hammer with weld to prevent this. I don't, but I flick the revolver over 90 degrees to the left as I cock the hammer so the broken pieces usually fall out.
When are you guys gonna cover the pepperbox revolvers?
thank you
Excellent episode ❤
Damn, why do you post these in the morning, right before work? I'm gonna be late now.
I don’t think anyone would look forward to carrying the “holster pistol “ but I think you might be making it sound worse than it might have been. After all, the weight isn’t going to pull your pants down if you’re wearing a separate gun belt. And your hips don’t factor into the equation at all if you’re carrying cross draw abdominal. But, I don’t personally know how it was warn.
Okay, pictures I’ve seen courtesy of Google, are right hip for a left handed cross draw on a belt dedicated for something other than holding your pants up a sward belt.
Thanks for sharing 👍
Cool man cool I love these
Interesting, but why not quickly replace the empty drum with one that is already loaded? thx
This question is way off in left field, but did you ever make it to the ww1 museum in kc, and if you did, was it worth it?
when loading with the gun in a stand all the force applied to seating the bullet is also applied to the very small tip of he trigger. Not a good idea.
you might get less pushback if you say "double-single" or "dual" action instead of "triple" action since there's no third functioning on double-and-single-action revolvers.
Whooooh, Prerolls!
Fun fact -- Sam Colt also pioneered banjo getaway music whilst being pursued by angry townsfolk
Are these for obvious/mercy kills?
Now we're talkin' 🇺🇸
Triple action makes sense to me..😊
No, I'm not going over to Rock Island Auctions site.
Every time I do it costs me money. 😁
32:06 "The First Artillery Butt-Battery"
how reliable would you say the stoping power is?
love how mae with spent cap in her hand, shook it and kept firing. love minute of mae. your are agreat woman. reminds me off my mom. could out shoot most men. they did like that. she always came home with an elk or deer when hunting. and she cleaned and butcherd it. hides also made into leather. tanned them. allso made soap. still alive at 85. not so quick. loves her 36 navy . it a real colt. shot it 3 days ago just to empty. cleaned it and reloaded it. ya when you cock it after the first shot always point it up she says or caps might jam. was her first pistol. still works.. she loves mae.
What’d those Irish use to make the martyr Joseph Smith?
Inspiration for the Ill[est] FOID card around, for sure.