Andrew Tomasi although I can imagine smacking it when playing Skyrim vr or something soo... maybe hooks to a harness that suspends you from a ceiling or something idk
Ocealot P The point is, you need to be able to see the ring in order to maintain your sense of orientation. Maybe they can make the ring and platform a little wider to accommodate wider movements but the harness idea is a step backward. The whole point of this machine is to allow you to physically walk in VR. Using a harness like other apparatuses do would take some weight off your legs and give you a less real experience.
A harness doesn't necessarily take weight off your legs. The ones used for physiological testing simply prevent lateral motion; vertical bob is unimpeded. I would end up smashing an arm on that ring the first day. I'll definitely need it to stay visible.
Andrew Tomasi I didn’t mean suspend (my fault) I meant if you fall then you don’t face plant and break ur face but I think it would be better because falling over you could still smack your face in the ring in this video and with what you said with taking a step back in tech I know u meant suspending but it would be better because the ring is mostly there for starting out and gaining bearings so it would not be necessary for a person who regularly plays plus it would be easy to put a opaque floating point in vr to let you see and self center yourself if you go too fast or something
A while ago I tried out VR for the first time in a store and after i had put on the thing, the employee said "here, grab this" and casually handed me the controller (that was flying midair for me) and I intuitively grabbed it only realizing a few seconds later that I had not physically seen it and basically caught it blindfolded. That was amazing. It was almost better than the driving game that followed (apparently I also suck at those in VR)
Well technically you did see it. You didn't see the actual object but a representation of an object. The fact that you could catch it shows that the VIVE camera capture ability as well as the 3D representation of an object in a 3D environment is perfectly calibrated. You have to give VIVE props to that.
This is why I think the Vive is rather better than the Rift... not that I can afford either system, or the computer to run them. But I've tried both at length in a workplace setting. The freedom of movement you have with the HTC is so much better, and the controllers are much more intuitive to use. The Rift may have been a pioneer but with that it's distinctly lacking on both fronts, including in the latest versions. Even the PS4's VR system (with the Move controllers and TV mounted camera) works better, in fact...
This was my experience as well. I put on a Vive visor, & when my friend handed me the controller I realized I hadn't fumbled awkwardly, or been distracted by an unnatural movement from my virtual hands; I'd just reached out & intuitively grabbed the controller in both virtual & real space intuitively, with no weird sensation of uncanny action at all. Very well put together package.
No more dangerous than a bowling alley or roller coaster really. I bet a consumer installation would be flush with the (padded) floor. The ring would probably be flexible and have emergency cutouts if you pulled on it too hard. The feet, head, and waist would also have idiot padding. This tech looks to be sold to theme parks and arcades - same people who buy/build laser tag installations.
This channel is WAY better then the first. I love the indepth stuff. I don't mind watching an hour video if it is full of the 'behind the scenes' stuff. I keep rewatching the rocket tour videos over and over.
I am so glad you have this second channel. The video on your primary channel was amazing and your conversation with the engineers there was fascinating but clearly cut down a great deal, which is understandable for a more general consumption channel, however thanks to this channel and this video those of us wanting more can still get it!
With most sci/tech/engineering channels I'm glad to see the host doing cool things with cool toys. This is one of the rare times I WANT TO DO IT TOO! I'm a bit of an algorithm wonk and systems engineer, and I really want to experience the decoupling between the body and the Infinadeck. Sure, I'd like to work on Infinadeck-like algorithms and dynamics, but I've worked on control loops for a variety of systems and have rarely been able to FEEL what's going on, instead having to rely on data from accelerometers and displacement sensors. I'd really like to experience being "in the loop" of such a multi-dimensional system!
all I can say is OMG. Not only are you brilliant, the treadmill is brilliant but you explain and grasp things at such a fundamental level faster that I could, it's just great to watch.
I watched part of a review from TESTED on this and Destin's take is much more understanding. They seemed to not be able to immerse themselves in the virtual world and blamed that on the deck itself. I am so excited to see where this rapidly advancing technology leads us. Thanks Destin to teaching us and Infinideck for pushing the boundaries.
As somebody who loves your other channel and has for a long time, and somebody who is hoping to get into the field of haptics, this sounds like it will be a load of fun! Keep it up, man!
This why I love your second channel. I love how you explain your videos, but like you I have questions thus why I love your second channel. You help me answer those questions.
It's simply a jumbo chain-belt style floor strip layered with lateral mini side way belts as the wrapped strip lines. All it needs now is vertical spokes that can at least rise & drop of a full foot step from those strip mini belts, then it could simulate stairs and pile debris.
its the threadmills that should know your intent by feeling your acceleration. If they could add sensors in them so they would know which side they are being pushed ever so slightly then the pressure itself would act like a control mechanism. See it like the pointing stick on a laptop keyboard. They dont work by tracking your finger and trying to guess how you want to move it, they work by sensing the pressure you do with your finger. And if the threadmill can be precise enough it will detect every little movement you are doing and know where you are going caus every time you walk around is the result of a weight transfer
i love seeing you geek out! destin, you are awesome and i think your feedback definetely contributed towards the final product being better too! Thanks man! :) i love VR!!
Even though this was with an older prototype, you're video(s) on it are much more interesting and educational than the other YT videos this week on the current prototype. Hopefully you get to do another one of these on a later version of it sometime.
Subscribed now.... because I didn't know about this channel Destin!!!! 3:15 - I appreciate how much you geek out over things! 11:12 - You didn't play enough Nintendo Wii to learn the importance of safety straps, lol...
Maybe a simple sensor in the ring that lets the system know whether you want to walk, or just stand or "hula" in place with the treadmill locked. Touching the ring, treadmills are free. Let go of the ring, treads are locked, allowing you to stand in place with no worries of slipping.
This device needs PID controller (Just like what is used in Boston dynamics' Atlas humanoid robot" and 4 electric jacks in each corner to virtualize the uphills and downhills. I totally enjoyed it. Who knows? Maybe one day I made one on my own. Good luck and thanks 4 sharing.
I love how the avatar even gets your body language....that's just amazing. You should keep some of this stuff in your main video--I LOVE watching you geek out! :) It makes my brain fizz, too. :P
That treadmill belt would need a large wheel loop to embed mini prixel beam rods, to cover all vertical simulated objects max height, but its still limited to inward/concave shapes, the only way to get a complete feel of a vr realm obstetrical would be a mechanical exo skeleton leg that would impose feedback action obstacle impact, resistance, and shapely surface or slops
Not only could you scale the size of your steps in the virtual world, but you could scale rotations to turn faster or slower than the real world. I think the really cool thing here is inverting a direction, like a backwards bicycle but with walking in the virtual world.
Destin should really check out VRChat with the Vive + leg trackers and a 3d scanned avatar of himself. Also the older omnidirectional systems that used shoes with a plastic sole on a concave surface look kiiiinda better right now.
You can tell that they wanted you to hire on the spot! Analyzing the whole system from an engineering standpoint and pointing out the right stuff. And you've discovered the most important thing for a married man: "The ring matters!" ^_^
I think they need to adjust the mapping between the deck, user position and virtual world. When Destin stops but the deck is moving his character slides in the virtual world - his virtual charactor should be stationary at that point as he is stationary on the 'infinte floor' of the deck.
One of the design solutions that I could see working for this is to change the control scheme to be a 270° deck. As you say in the video, you don't have a good anchor point of what 90° is, so what if you instead have to move only 45°? What this might do is that it might use the 90° of unused degrees recenter the user, as someone is less likely to walk around in circles than they are to take two sharp angles. It'd be stopgap solution, but I can see this working.
The stability problems looks a lot like PIDs for drones and race drones. It's look like pilots are able to control that in order to get super smooth movement. Maybe plug a racing board on the trend mill :)
I feel like if you were in a harness that was attached to the ceiling and it allowed you low enough that you could walk with almost all your weight and if the tread mills weren’t powered automatically and were just loose (like no motors at all). That it would feel more realistic, idk though i can think of this having its own issues
What I'm a little confused about is why they track your back position to center the model. Since you can lean in different directions without changing your position, you run into the problem with the hula hooping, where the infinadeck tries to adjust your position but it doesn't have to. Wouldn't it make more sense to use the feet trackers instead? One foot will always have to be anchored on the ground (if you're walking), so if you can keep track of the center point between the 2 feet on the ground, and center that on the infinadeck instead, I would think that that would give a much more natural feel for acceleration and deceleration, since you're used to acceleration and deceleration coming from your feet, and not so much from your back. I'm a CS student with no mechanical engineering background, so there might be something obvious here that I'm not seeing that wouldn't make this work. If I am missing something, I'd love to know!
There is another technique used as a controller for movement that they looked at in the gadget show when they did a battlefield simulation cave. There they used an omnidirectional threadmill with 16 segments of rollers to keep the person in the center, but they didnt have any lateral movements to the directon of the actual rollers. They also used infrared cameras for positioning, etc. ruclips.net/video/eg8Bh5iI2WY/видео.html
The bit at the end where they remove the ring and he starts talking about it being the +c in an integral. It's nothing so "deep". It's just because this system doesn't manage to properly balance you just yet (you can see by how often he's walking with his feet across each other to try to keep balance), so you need the ring to tell you where you *acually* are. Once this thing properly balances you, you won't need it because you will feel balanced.
I feel like one big problem is shown in the hula move he did at 9:40. The treadmill tried to correct and that way you felt motion you would not have experienced in real life because you were just standing. I wonder if that would be improved if the treadmill would not try to put your center of gravity in the middle of the rig but a calculated middle point between your feet. Because that way you could move your upper body in a standing position without any inertia porblems introduced by the treadmill.
These videos are so much fun to watch!! I also appreciate when you explain things in calculus terms, it makes things click in a completely different way.
Why not use a neural network to anticipate the user's actions based on context and past play experience? I work in the field, neural control systems work well and this seems like a perfect application for it.
My "german" approach would be five robot arms three-way gimballed...two strapped to your feet to simulate ground, gradients and obstacles, two for your hands/wrists to support your balance and simulate for instance resistance of obstacles in the world and one with a corset for your body (with butt support) to also support your balance while moving and to simulate for instance sitting.
Halfway through this video, I was like, once the kinks are worked out this would be great for dance videogames... Move your hips around so I can see how if deals with it!! 9:45 YEEEEEEES!
Alternate method is to use predivtive machine learning to create faster estimates, increasing the machine's reaction time. There is a clear goal for the algorithm to work toward, keep the player in the center, with clear methods to acheive this, and clear inputs. The vive controllers on the feet, hands, face, and belt. If it began reacting 1/4 of the way through the first stride rather than halfway through the second stride this product would be complete. There is just too much lag between the movements of the player and the mahcine.
I watched a video on @tested about this that was good, but they didn't get nearly as technical and they didn't have George. While I like to see the young guys hashing out the programming, to see the person passionate enough about something to put their own money into it is fascinating to me and the fact he has an accent and crazy hair is an awesome bonus.
Hello! An idea pops in my mind watching the first video and jas been confirmed looking this second one. I think i can solve (kind of) the inertia problem in a very easy and cost effective way... I'd like to talk bout that idea with you as a starting point. Regards from France.
What about jumping? Your feet and your center of mass don't move during the build up so you could literally jump off the machine if you wanted to. It seems like machine would have to anticipate the jump somehow and move preemptively while you're jumping to keep you from falling off, no? Did the engineers say anything about that?
So would that red ring be augmented virtual reality? I wish the Robot had mouth and facial movements to mimic what Destin was saying, that would make this that much cooler to watch.
Id love to know if they tried to base it solely on foot placement at anytime in their development. I could see a few challenges but theoretically that should fix the hoolah problem, so perhaps a combination of the two, ie the displacement between the waist and feet. Tricky. These people are quite smart.
I have a request for a test with your high speed camera. If you’re up for a challenge this might be a good one. A new car in a factory drives off the line the first time and drives over your high speed camera. The car has about 11 minutes to go before it is shipped out of the area. Can your high speed camera capture every aspect of the underbody with great clarity and have an analytical tool identify if there are defects or not. All this must be completed in the next 10 minutes. And ....go!!!! Thanks
new builds usually drive off assembly and shortly to dyno where it's bus is hooked up to that test system, various accelerations and top speeds are performed over ~2 mins during this ~700 tests are ran.
Hey Destin, interesting stuff. Have you heard of the Virtuix Omni? It looks like they provide a similar experience but with a very different setup using no moving parts. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
I'm just realizing this, but the motion tracking aspect of this (not the treadmill part, but just the "the robot moves the way Destin moves") part must be the technology that that Japanese "virtual youtuber" meme girl uses, yeah?
Do you think if they can tighten up the control enough so that you don't "slide" in the VR world, will the ring still be important? I can see you using it for visual balance against the less refined movement of the infinadeck
I think they shouldn't try to put your belt in the center of the circle. They should at all time calculate the combined center of both leg sensors and try to keep that in the center of the circle. With some adjustments that coud lead to very smooth experience. If you did a hoola hoop or crouch the system wouldn't move at all and it would be more realistic.
why not make it as to where it tracks your feet, and starts moving once your feet do, and stop once your feet stop, that way it would not have to recenter you back to the center. its hard to explain what i mean with words. if your right foot is front, and your left foot is coming towards it from the back (how you normally walk) then the machine moves back, that way it brings your right foot back and you place your left foot down. once you stop moving your feet towards each other it knows to stop.
So... How much does it 'feel' like walking normally?... Like, do you push off the first step, and then when you come to a stop, have to stop your 'virtual momentum'? Is it not quite natural, how would you define the difference?
I'm just thinking, like... If it starts moving, but slowly, with the first step/changes, it would potentially feel like moving naturally? The control systems to get that perfect seem crazy.. It seems like it would need to track more parts of the body - back angle/bend, and relatively precise movements of the extremities... If you lean forwards to walk, it starts moving to keep you balanced, like you would do naturally, but also somewhat like a segway..
Hey Destin, I was wondering, why does it work with a motorized treadmill? wouldn't it be easier to put a whole bunch of belts in a circle? to clarify, have a center point, and from there, get a whole bunch of belts that are at most 2 by 4 inches . If you make the belts have a certain amount of friction I believe you could just have them roll as fast as they need to to keep your body in the same place. You could then measure the speed at which each belt moves, and figure out from there how the character moves in game. It'd be a lot easier, because you don't need a fancy, and extremely complicated algorithm to keep you in the center. That being said, this isn't a far fetched idea, so people probably already tried this, but I can't figure out why it wouldn't work.
Hey Destin! I had a few questions. What are the safety precautions that are or that will be built into the infinadeck? What happens if you fall? What happens if a sensor on your foot or center of gravity falls off? Just curious! Thanks.
" Its like when you do an integral and you get the +C at the end" That analogy made my day, doing Solid state Physics homework. I will keep watching you!
Destin I have a question Wouldn't it be a bit more accurate if they replaced the sensor on your back with two sensors on your feet and instead of keeping the sensor on your back at the center of the deck it tried to keep the mean position of the two feet sensors at the center of the deck. It so happens that when your feet move forward it takes an extra bit of time for your back to move with them, initially. Of course when you keep walking it stabilizes but when you start and stop there is a huge error. I'm no expert so if I'm wrong i'd like to know why. Thanks.
If you learn nothing else from this video, remember this: THE RING MATTERS!
Andrew Tomasi although I can imagine smacking it when playing Skyrim vr or something soo... maybe hooks to a harness that suspends you from a ceiling or something idk
Ocealot P The point is, you need to be able to see the ring in order to maintain your sense of orientation. Maybe they can make the ring and platform a little wider to accommodate wider movements but the harness idea is a step backward. The whole point of this machine is to allow you to physically walk in VR. Using a harness like other apparatuses do would take some weight off your legs and give you a less real experience.
A harness doesn't necessarily take weight off your legs. The ones used for physiological testing simply prevent lateral motion; vertical bob is unimpeded.
I would end up smashing an arm on that ring the first day. I'll definitely need it to stay visible.
Andrew Tomasi I didn’t mean suspend (my fault) I meant if you fall then you don’t face plant and break ur face but I think it would be better because falling over you could still smack your face in the ring in this video and with what you said with taking a step back in tech I know u meant suspending but it would be better because the ring is mostly there for starting out and gaining bearings so it would not be necessary for a person who regularly plays plus it would be easy to put a opaque floating point in vr to let you see and self center yourself if you go too fast or something
The ring is gonna be the future measurment of health. As long as you fit in the ring, everything is good.
A while ago I tried out VR for the first time in a store and after i had put on the thing, the employee said "here, grab this" and casually handed me the controller (that was flying midair for me) and I intuitively grabbed it only realizing a few seconds later that I had not physically seen it and basically caught it blindfolded. That was amazing. It was almost better than the driving game that followed (apparently I also suck at those in VR)
I like throwing people trackers (not controllers!) and playing catch with them. It shows off the precision in a fantastic way!
Well technically you did see it. You didn't see the actual object but a representation of an object.
The fact that you could catch it shows that the VIVE camera capture ability as well as the 3D representation of an object in a 3D environment is perfectly calibrated. You have to give VIVE props to that.
Valkyrie Might I learned something there.. thx
This is why I think the Vive is rather better than the Rift... not that I can afford either system, or the computer to run them. But I've tried both at length in a workplace setting. The freedom of movement you have with the HTC is so much better, and the controllers are much more intuitive to use. The Rift may have been a pioneer but with that it's distinctly lacking on both fronts, including in the latest versions. Even the PS4's VR system (with the Move controllers and TV mounted camera) works better, in fact...
This was my experience as well. I put on a Vive visor, & when my friend handed me the controller I realized I hadn't fumbled awkwardly, or been distracted by an unnatural movement from my virtual hands; I'd just reached out & intuitively grabbed the controller in both virtual & real space intuitively, with no weird sensation of uncanny action at all. Very well put together package.
i don't mind if all the videos end up 40 minutes long, its always interesting stuff, the more the better imo :)
The Haptix gloves and this together will be insane when they're done working out all the issues
Haptix suit eventually for real immersion
Qualyn Foreman And also the Teslasuit which seems to be even closer to being ready than the other two.
Blueberry Bandit The Tesla suit from slow mo guys?
No more dangerous than a bowling alley or roller coaster really. I bet a consumer installation would be flush with the (padded) floor. The ring would probably be flexible and have emergency cutouts if you pulled on it too hard. The feet, head, and waist would also have idiot padding. This tech looks to be sold to theme parks and arcades - same people who buy/build laser tag installations.
Do you know where I can buy this thing?
I'd like to use it to play Super Mario Bros!
something fun: at about 6:00, only look at the right side of the screen, but listen to Destin The Robot trying to figure out his environment.
I did this naturally.
I was constantly distracted by how emotive the CG robot is in these videos. It's insane how well the tracking and models are working to create that.
Yes! I loved having the Destin avatar explaining things to me!
This channel is WAY better then the first. I love the indepth stuff. I don't mind watching an hour video if it is full of the 'behind the scenes' stuff. I keep rewatching the rocket tour videos over and over.
3:05, I love how you can almost see the emotions of disbelief through the virtual body.
I am so glad you have this second channel. The video on your primary channel was amazing and your conversation with the engineers there was fascinating but clearly cut down a great deal, which is understandable for a more general consumption channel, however thanks to this channel and this video those of us wanting more can still get it!
With most sci/tech/engineering channels I'm glad to see the host doing cool things with cool toys. This is one of the rare times I WANT TO DO IT TOO!
I'm a bit of an algorithm wonk and systems engineer, and I really want to experience the decoupling between the body and the Infinadeck. Sure, I'd like to work on Infinadeck-like algorithms and dynamics, but I've worked on control loops for a variety of systems and have rarely been able to FEEL what's going on, instead having to rely on data from accelerometers and displacement sensors.
I'd really like to experience being "in the loop" of such a multi-dimensional system!
all I can say is OMG. Not only are you brilliant, the treadmill is brilliant but you explain and grasp things at such a fundamental level faster that I could, it's just great to watch.
"That's my favorite place to be; confused but trying to learn." - Destin Sandlin
This comment speaks to me in a profound way.
1:47 Just noticed that RPO poster in the background. pretty awesome.
Halfway through the video, I was going to comment that you should do a hula hoop motion with your hips to see what machine does...and you did! haha
I really love that this channel exists! Thank you Destin, have a great one yourself!
I watched part of a review from TESTED on this and Destin's take is much more understanding. They seemed to not be able to immerse themselves in the virtual world and blamed that on the deck itself. I am so excited to see where this rapidly advancing technology leads us. Thanks Destin to teaching us and Infinideck for pushing the boundaries.
As somebody who loves your other channel and has for a long time, and somebody who is hoping to get into the field of haptics, this sounds like it will be a load of fun! Keep it up, man!
This was an excellent accompaniment to the video on the first channel, I love following along with the process of figuring things out.
This why I love your second channel. I love how you explain your videos, but like you I have questions thus why I love your second channel. You help me answer those questions.
I really appreciate you putting this stuff here.
It's simply a jumbo chain-belt style floor strip layered with lateral mini side way belts as the wrapped strip lines. All it needs now is vertical spokes that can at least rise & drop of a full foot step from those strip mini belts, then it could simulate stairs and pile debris.
its the threadmills that should know your intent by feeling your acceleration. If they could add sensors in them so they would know which side they are being pushed ever so slightly then the pressure itself would act like a control mechanism. See it like the pointing stick on a laptop keyboard. They dont work by tracking your finger and trying to guess how you want to move it, they work by sensing the pressure you do with your finger. And if the threadmill can be precise enough it will detect every little movement you are doing and know where you are going caus every time you walk around is the result of a weight transfer
i love seeing you geek out! destin, you are awesome and i think your feedback definetely contributed towards the final product being better too! Thanks man! :) i love VR!!
Even though this was with an older prototype, you're video(s) on it are much more interesting and educational than the other YT videos this week on the current prototype.
Hopefully you get to do another one of these on a later version of it sometime.
Subscribed now.... because I didn't know about this channel Destin!!!!
3:15 - I appreciate how much you geek out over things!
11:12 - You didn't play enough Nintendo Wii to learn the importance of safety straps, lol...
This might be one of my favorite videos you’ve ever made. Thanks for the great content! Would you consider going back to see the changes?
That verse at the end fits so well! I love the little hidden secrets.
Maybe a simple sensor in the ring that lets the system know whether you want to walk, or just stand or "hula" in place with the treadmill locked. Touching the ring, treadmills are free. Let go of the ring, treads are locked, allowing you to stand in place with no worries of slipping.
This device needs PID controller (Just like what is used in Boston dynamics' Atlas humanoid robot" and 4 electric jacks in each corner to virtualize the uphills and downhills. I totally enjoyed it. Who knows? Maybe one day I made one on my own. Good luck and thanks 4 sharing.
I love how the avatar even gets your body language....that's just amazing. You should keep some of this stuff in your main video--I LOVE watching you geek out! :) It makes my brain fizz, too. :P
It is great that you do this...cut stuff...and share it!
Also, this is probably the best review of a product I've ever seen.
That treadmill belt would need a large wheel loop to embed mini prixel beam rods, to cover all vertical simulated objects max height, but its still limited to inward/concave shapes, the only way to get a complete feel of a vr realm obstetrical would be a mechanical exo skeleton leg that would impose feedback action obstacle impact, resistance, and shapely surface or slops
Not only could you scale the size of your steps in the virtual world, but you could scale rotations to turn faster or slower than the real world.
I think the really cool thing here is inverting a direction, like a backwards bicycle but with walking in the virtual world.
i'll be blunt with you i'd watch a 2 hour video of you geeking out over anything uncut and everything
Destin should really check out VRChat with the Vive + leg trackers and a 3d scanned avatar of himself. Also the older omnidirectional systems that used shoes with a plastic sole on a concave surface look kiiiinda better right now.
@Smarter Every Day 2 Destin, did you experience motion sickness in the Infinadeck? And if so, how did the virtual ring change it?
4:07 what happened
You can tell that they wanted you to hire on the spot! Analyzing the whole system from an engineering standpoint and pointing out the right stuff. And you've discovered the most important thing for a married man: "The ring matters!" ^_^
I think they need to adjust the mapping between the deck, user position and virtual world. When Destin stops but the deck is moving his character slides in the virtual world - his virtual charactor should be stationary at that point as he is stationary on the 'infinte floor' of the deck.
Very cool! Would love to see some future update videos!
One of the design solutions that I could see working for this is to change the control scheme to be a 270° deck. As you say in the video, you don't have a good anchor point of what 90° is, so what if you instead have to move only 45°?
What this might do is that it might use the 90° of unused degrees recenter the user, as someone is less likely to walk around in circles than they are to take two sharp angles. It'd be stopgap solution, but I can see this working.
The stability problems looks a lot like PIDs for drones and race drones. It's look like pilots are able to control that in order to get super smooth movement. Maybe plug a racing board on the trend mill :)
I love your nerdiness 😍
this is exactly the next step in vr that I was imagining for years
Destin. You are a magnificent nerd. Never Change.
I could watch you play with the Infinadeck for hours!
And I clicked the notification bell. For the first time ever. Destin, you are the best!
Realizing the fact that the ring serves as a baby walker blows my mind !!!!!
This is the info I love, keep doing you, Dustin.
I feel like if you were in a harness that was attached to the ceiling and it allowed you low enough that you could walk with almost all your weight and if the tread mills weren’t powered automatically and were just loose (like no motors at all). That it would feel more realistic, idk though i can think of this having its own issues
i’m from cullman! never realized u were but i love watching your videos !
What I'm a little confused about is why they track your back position to center the model. Since you can lean in different directions without changing your position, you run into the problem with the hula hooping, where the infinadeck tries to adjust your position but it doesn't have to. Wouldn't it make more sense to use the feet trackers instead? One foot will always have to be anchored on the ground (if you're walking), so if you can keep track of the center point between the 2 feet on the ground, and center that on the infinadeck instead, I would think that that would give a much more natural feel for acceleration and deceleration, since you're used to acceleration and deceleration coming from your feet, and not so much from your back.
I'm a CS student with no mechanical engineering background, so there might be something obvious here that I'm not seeing that wouldn't make this work. If I am missing something, I'd love to know!
Watched another video with the Infinideck and wow it did get much quieter
I'd love to see a follow-up video of you trying out their improved version. :)
There is another technique used as a controller for movement that they looked at in the gadget show when they did a battlefield simulation cave.
There they used an omnidirectional threadmill with 16 segments of rollers to keep the person in the center, but they didnt have any lateral movements to the directon of the actual rollers. They also used infrared cameras for positioning, etc.
ruclips.net/video/eg8Bh5iI2WY/видео.html
The 19 dislikes on this video are treadmills that have been stepped on
XD
The bit at the end where they remove the ring and he starts talking about it being the +c in an integral. It's nothing so "deep". It's just because this system doesn't manage to properly balance you just yet (you can see by how often he's walking with his feet across each other to try to keep balance), so you need the ring to tell you where you *acually* are. Once this thing properly balances you, you won't need it because you will feel balanced.
That's awesome. Now I understand why people look at me weird when I am in that state seeking understanding/ overwhelmed.
Love y'all Destin. You represent Alabama so well, and I super appreciate that. Roll Tide!
This video is better than on your first channel in my opinion
I feel like one big problem is shown in the hula move he did at 9:40. The treadmill tried to correct and that way you felt motion you would not have experienced in real life because you were just standing. I wonder if that would be improved if the treadmill would not try to put your center of gravity in the middle of the rig but a calculated middle point between your feet. Because that way you could move your upper body in a standing position without any inertia porblems introduced by the treadmill.
I love watching him explain stuff as robot in VR
These videos are so much fun to watch!! I also appreciate when you explain things in calculus terms, it makes things click in a completely different way.
Why not use a neural network to anticipate the user's actions based on context and past play experience? I work in the field, neural control systems work well and this seems like a perfect application for it.
that's what i was thinking
My "german" approach would be five robot arms three-way gimballed...two strapped to your feet to simulate ground, gradients and obstacles, two for your hands/wrists to support your balance and simulate for instance resistance of obstacles in the world and one with a corset for your body (with butt support) to also support your balance while moving and to simulate for instance sitting.
Thank you destin, you make my internet surfing worthwile :)
Halfway through this video, I was like, once the kinks are worked out this would be great for dance videogames... Move your hips around so I can see how if deals with it!! 9:45 YEEEEEEES!
Alternate method is to use predivtive machine learning to create faster estimates, increasing the machine's reaction time.
There is a clear goal for the algorithm to work toward, keep the player in the center, with clear methods to acheive this, and clear inputs. The vive controllers on the feet, hands, face, and belt. If it began reacting 1/4 of the way through the first stride rather than halfway through the second stride this product would be complete.
There is just too much lag between the movements of the player and the mahcine.
Oh my gosh "Confused but Learning" is what I want my life to be. Getting smarter everyday.
"Destin does whatever Destin is thinking about" hahaha!!!! The best
I love your channel Destin. Thank you
I watched a video on @tested about this that was good, but they didn't get nearly as technical and they didn't have George. While I like to see the young guys hashing out the programming, to see the person passionate enough about something to put their own money into it is fascinating to me and the fact he has an accent and crazy hair is an awesome bonus.
Hello! An idea pops in my mind watching the first video and jas been confirmed looking this second one. I think i can solve (kind of) the inertia problem in a very easy and cost effective way... I'd like to talk bout that idea with you as a starting point. Regards from France.
Curious to know how this compares to the Virtuix Omni. I feel like that one is a more practical design.
"I dropped my hand, sorry. Let me put my hand back on." Robot problems!
What about jumping? Your feet and your center of mass don't move during the build up so you could literally jump off the machine if you wanted to. It seems like machine would have to anticipate the jump somehow and move preemptively while you're jumping to keep you from falling off, no? Did the engineers say anything about that?
Thank you.
Its rather interesting how Dustin went from thinking VR was just a fad to getting into haptics and treadmills and having a blast with it. {grin}
This is awesome!
So would that red ring be augmented virtual reality?
I wish the Robot had mouth and facial movements to mimic what Destin was saying, that would make this that much cooler to watch.
Destin, your joy and excitement is infectious. Thank you.
Id love to know if they tried to base it solely on foot placement at anytime in their development. I could see a few challenges but theoretically that should fix the hoolah problem, so perhaps a combination of the two, ie the displacement between the waist and feet. Tricky. These people are quite smart.
The real, albeit unrelated, question is how is this channel not called "Smarter Every Other Day" or something along those lines?
I have a request for a test with your high speed camera. If you’re up for a challenge this might be a good one.
A new car in a factory drives off the line the first time and drives over your high speed camera. The car has about 11 minutes to go before it is shipped out of the area. Can your high speed camera capture every aspect of the underbody with great clarity and have an analytical tool identify if there are defects or not. All this must be completed in the next 10 minutes. And ....go!!!! Thanks
new builds usually drive off assembly and shortly to dyno where it's bus is hooked up to that test system, various accelerations and top speeds are performed over ~2 mins during this ~700 tests are ran.
Hey Destin, interesting stuff. Have you heard of the Virtuix Omni? It looks like they provide a similar experience but with a very different setup using no moving parts. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
I'm just realizing this, but the motion tracking aspect of this (not the treadmill part, but just the "the robot moves the way Destin moves") part must be the technology that that Japanese "virtual youtuber" meme girl uses, yeah?
Do you think if they can tighten up the control enough so that you don't "slide" in the VR world, will the ring still be important? I can see you using it for visual balance against the less refined movement of the infinadeck
I think they shouldn't try to put your belt in the center of the circle. They should at all time calculate the combined center of both leg sensors and try to keep that in the center of the circle. With some adjustments that coud lead to very smooth experience. If you did a hoola hoop or crouch the system wouldn't move at all and it would be more realistic.
Destin! It's "damping," not "dampening." There is no moisture in a spring/mass/damper system.
why not make it as to where it tracks your feet, and starts moving once your feet do, and stop once your feet stop, that way it would not have to recenter you back to the center. its hard to explain what i mean with words. if your right foot is front, and your left foot is coming towards it from the back (how you normally walk) then the machine moves back, that way it brings your right foot back and you place your left foot down. once you stop moving your feet towards each other it knows to stop.
So... How much does it 'feel' like walking normally?... Like, do you push off the first step, and then when you come to a stop, have to stop your 'virtual momentum'? Is it not quite natural, how would you define the difference?
I'm just thinking, like... If it starts moving, but slowly, with the first step/changes, it would potentially feel like moving naturally? The control systems to get that perfect seem crazy.. It seems like it would need to track more parts of the body - back angle/bend, and relatively precise movements of the extremities... If you lean forwards to walk, it starts moving to keep you balanced, like you would do naturally, but also somewhat like a segway..
I'm wondering if having some sort of disk brake along the Y-axis would help to help stop quicker.
It feels like this thing is MADE for virtual ice skating, especially if I consider how it works at the moment :))
Destin! You should come back to infinideck when it is more polished to see how much better it is!
Are we gojna see an update of the system ^_^
Hey Destin, I was wondering, why does it work with a motorized treadmill? wouldn't it be easier to put a whole bunch of belts in a circle? to clarify, have a center point, and from there, get a whole bunch of belts that are at most 2 by 4 inches . If you make the belts have a certain amount of friction I believe you could just have them roll as fast as they need to to keep your body in the same place. You could then measure the speed at which each belt moves, and figure out from there how the character moves in game. It'd be a lot easier, because you don't need a fancy, and extremely complicated algorithm to keep you in the center.
That being said, this isn't a far fetched idea, so people probably already tried this, but I can't figure out why it wouldn't work.
Hey Destin! I had a few questions. What are the safety precautions that are or that will be built into the infinadeck? What happens if you fall? What happens if a sensor on your foot or center of gravity falls off? Just curious! Thanks.
This is very impressive.
How about putting pressure sensor below the foot to predict direction and know about center of mass ?...
" Its like when you do an integral and you get the +C at the end" That analogy made my day, doing Solid state Physics homework. I will keep watching you!
Heh, turning off the ring turns it into a Drunk Walk simulator :D
Destin I have a question
Wouldn't it be a bit more accurate if they replaced the sensor on your back with two sensors on your feet and instead of keeping the sensor on your back at the center of the deck it tried to keep the mean position of the two feet sensors at the center of the deck.
It so happens that when your feet move forward it takes an extra bit of time for your back to move with them, initially. Of course when you keep walking it stabilizes but when you start and stop there is a huge error.
I'm no expert so if I'm wrong i'd like to know why.
Thanks.