Usually everything Rupert says resonates with my own inner knowledge. But here I think there's more to it. Why this trick into the limited mind? Why is the universe doing this? Of course, this is just words, and the "why" is always limited by an explanation, but I feel something in my experience that I think can resonate with a different explanation. Because in my experience, there is always the palpable sense that paying attention to the reality as it flowers, unfolds and expands is of utmost importance. When you look at the moon, it says "look at me. 'Im usually here, and yet, this time, but you and me are creating something right now that has never happened, and you need to pay attention, because something is happening." There is also the sense in experience, that each expansion of one's known experience creates an expanded platform upon which subsequent experience and knowing can occur. I suggest that this "trick" of universal consciousness into the smaller self isn't just so conscious can know itself, but I think it is so that the very platform of consciousness can be expanded. This universal consciousness has been described as a static universal platform within which the "world of form" happens, but I don't know, I really think that it is expanded through this division into smaller selves. I like this story. It actually makes a space for why the world of form is so dizzyingly infinitely complex, it makes a space for personal creativity, for humanity as the tip of this complexity, it positions all our crazy new technology as the tip of this expanding reality (it is not irrelevant), and also holds a place for that feeling that we all have that change seems to be accelerating, and even that we seem to be reaching a crescendo. It might even explain why the direct path seems so obvious now, why older spiritual texts seem to be pointing to what seems so patently obvious in such difficult to understand terms. It could be that we are maybe even more aware and present than we used to be... that these states are somehow easier to reach... sort of like when we suddenly discovered perspective, or realistic drawing... possibly the field of awareness has been growing and expanding along with this expansion into complexity....
thank you great comment to me it also seems like there is missing something just because we don't know why it would do such a thing doesn't mean there's no reason. I think Tom Campbell with his virtual reality Theorie also kinda includes this expansion and entropy reduction which seems a little more fitting as a theoretical model. Not that it's really important and potentially one can become aware of infinite consciousness and then just knows but yeah.
How can the infinite be expanded? It is infinite. I believe the infinite separates and thus; creates the finite to simply have experiences. In the same way that the finite plays video games to have experiences. The infinite sees through the eyes of the finite and the finite sees through the eyes of the video game character. Each experience for the infinite is unique depending on the finite entity; just like each experience for the finite is unique depending on the video game character. It's ultimately all about creation. For each entity to have experiences; creation must occur. The infinite must create the finite and the finite must create the video game. The process of creation is just a natural consequence of seeking experience and the knowledge of said experience is unknown until it has been experienced
I also have the sense that there’s more to the story here. Rupert’s model of consciousness tells us that consciousness/pure awareness is whole and complete as is. This is why his explanation for existence boils down to “just because”. Your model makes more sense to me as it indicates that consciousness is making a real effort to expand which seems to be the case in our experience, however, this would suggest that consciousness is not complete and if consciousness/ pure awareness is not content with itself as is, then what exactly is it reaching for? It’s difficult to say because I am thinking from the perspective of a human mind that is limited, but I think this is one of those great mysteries which we will never know ( in this form at least).
As usual, great answer, Rupert. The way I see it: As God is infinite, so goes His creation. Therefore, anything that can exist, must exist. For example, within another universe, I have written this same comment, but forgot to add a comma, and so on, ad infinitum. Nisargadatta tackles this question from another angle: "That which is beginningless cannot have a cause."
Everything in reality is reality(the 'I'). Reality is itself creating itself to experience what it can imagine. We conscious beings are reality itself imagining/manifesting our own creations from what was already created/known. Creation is purpose and happiness. Creation is liberation. You will feel no better bliss than sharing what you express through your highest form of creation. Whether it's your children, your words, or any form of art. If someone understands and is captivated by your creation, that oneness feeling is life.
I believe that, because of the purity of Consciousness, it cannot experience anything... But when Consciousness is Creating it forgets himself, then it had created the darkness where it can have all kinds of experiences, through an ego-mind.... Later, the real experience is to trascend itself like an ego-mind and remember what it is.... Because, of the experiences that the ego-mind lived, it believes that it is real... Now the ego-mind must recognised that all was an illusion, letting the Pure Light of Consciousness take its place.
Here’s a possibility, and as much as I love Rupert and all the rest, maybe none of us has a fucking clue why all this is going on, how it’s going on or what we’re supposed to be doing, if anything. If I’m going to be open minded, I need to be open minded enough to accept the possibility that none of us knows any more than anyone else and maybe none of us knows at all.
Thank you Rupert 🙏🏼 So creation is an act of love, but, why does consciousness still does it knowing perfectly that a lot of suffering is involved? Is there anyway of giving consciousness a feedback on this .. I doubt that this act still comes out of love with the additional information that a huge amount of suffering is involved …
Bravo, one of the few postings where Rupert specifies that the lollipop is not real. i know there are various degrees of preferences for sugarcoating the truth [or not]. i also understand that the answer is provided to match the level of understanding of the one who poses the question [revealed by the question itself] . However, 'the client is always right' should not be applied here considering that the discussion is not private. i urge Rupert to always specify that the lollipop is not real to avoid confusing those who were on the right path and now they are diverted because of the lollipop... From my perspective i'd prefer to have the truth stated first and then offer the lollipop as a concession, emphasizing the on the concession aspect.
He has addressed this several times. To always answer with "There is no xxx" is a common Advaita reply that doesn't really satisfy a questioner. An answer is relative. On one level it is true, but on another it is not. I think that one who would really understand that answer and be satisfied would already know it and therefore would not need to ask the question or need the clarity.
saidas108 what's 'several' to you is 'few' to me. things are not that black or white, i.e. understanding [at an intellectual level] is most of the time a gradual process, very often frustrating. A misunderstanding can set you back for a while, unnecessarily increasing the frustration. That's my experience.
well, you see, perfect example- clarity in communication is paramount, even more so when it comes to teaching the truth. One of the fundamental concepts of teaching advaita is being clear when providing answers whether they fall within the absolute or the relative reality. It is my experience that it is not enough to do it once in a while only, especially when considering the many shades of ignorance of the audience on youtube, even among the more seasoned followers. It is also my experience that memory works very badly when it comes to remembering the teachings of advaita and therefore i don't think that anybody would get offended by being continuously reminded of the absolute truth, on the contrary... i am not sure if you are still not clear in getting my point in reference to what you said in response to what i said :)
A great answer. One of the best lollipops I’ve heard is : the infinite contains all finite forms. The infinite also contains are prior states of finite forms. The fact that there are finite forms changes nothing about infinity.
Western science has so many good answers to these questions. And what they don't have answers for now - they promise they will have soon. Or certainly eventually. I can hardly wait....
I think Rupert missed a great opportunity here to expound the ultimate thesis of Advait Vedanta regarding the issue of creation. viz. The thesis of "Ajaatvaad" literally meaning non-birth" or "non-creation" of the universe in reality. Only Ajaatvaad, in essence, can satisfactorily and conclusively answer the question asked. Rupert's invoking the analogy of parents bringing forth a child out of causeless love or an artist creating out of an irrational impulse etc. takes one away from the fundamental Ajaatvaadic assertion that the ultimate and non-dual irreducible substratum of this universe, Brahman, is eternally changeless, never really subject to Birth, decay and Death and that this Universe is never created in Reality. So the question about why it was created stands disposed. Rupert, I am sure you would agree and say this in your own wonderful way next time when that question is raised. Many Thanks !
i don't see Rupert as a scholar; i assume he has the knowledge and could have mentioned the 'thesis of Ajaatvaad' but that would have been just for the mind. The question itself was just for the mind too [why does it matter- who wants to know?!- the ego...] by making consciousness an object, a cause that determines an effect. On a deeper investigation of the i that perceive a universe it would be revealed that there is no i and with the disappearance of the ego giving birth to the i, the universe goes too [as they rise and fall together].
"just for the mind".... Yes. that's correct. But this being a Q&A session and not a meditation session, it is the mind that is asking and hence needs to be satisfied with the most elegant and perfect explanation. So I thought. Also it would have been a treat to hear an exposition of "Ajaatvaad" in the English language from the able speech of Rupert. Rgds.
You and a handful of others would even be remotely familiar with what you are talking about. This is not Rupert's audience. There are numerous Advaita Vedanta scholars who would be happy to go on and on for hours and even years like that and to what end? Does understanding an esoteric point like that Awaken or just entertain?
Blending perfect theoretical explanations with practical intuitions is most welcome and the hallmark of any great teacher. I regard Rupert as one and thought he just missed the opportunity, which he surely could have made great use of given his deep grasp of the theory as well as the essential truths that the theories so beautifully state. IMHO there need not be any aversion to thorough theoretical exposition and understanding as long as it does not obstruct the actual experience with bookish learning. Rgds.
i have a feeling you want to put the cart before the horse...theoretical expositions have value only if they are supporting the transmission of the truth otherwise they are just entertainment, as saidas rightfully noted. i dare to suppose that Rupert is seasoned enough to know when such a theoretical exposition is appropriate. Given the question asked, that reveals the understanding of the inquirer [probably close to that of the general audience], he probably considered to be a waste of time that would add no value to his response, and even more, may become an obstruction to understanding of what really matters.
Addressing the question of "Why would infinite consciousness choose to make the creation event happen?" Space and Time themselves are forms that radiate out from their source (which is formless awareness or consciousness) and provide a Space/Time form-structure, or the 3D screen upon which our reality script plays itself out. Thought processes of any kind take time to play themselves out. It is not possible to have thoughts or thinking or reasoning without the presence of time. Choosing to do this or that or nothing at all are also processes that occur within the structure of time. The mistake that is perhaps being made here, is that one can't assume that formless Awareness or Consciousness are themselves bound by the structure, or form, of Time. That would be to assign a form to the formless, which doesn't work. This is assumed in the question itself, where formless awareness is pictured caught up in Time, thinking about a possible action, deciding to take action, taking action, etc. So, the question can't really be asked or answered in any meaningful way.
It's interesting... Maybe evolution of world/mind is in reality 'devolution' of 'original' consciousness 'state'.. modulation of consciousness in form (by some power) including mind.. so maybe when creation is 'too much' modulated/fragmented/detailed, it looses awareness about source.. or about its own non-modulated 'form'/'state'... could be something like this? If ability of thinking and/or thought process is also part of creation, maybe we are just over-thought.. in an effort to be happy...😃.. Peace...
In the limited period of human life, from the beginning of human life, this question has always been raised by the purpose of the creation of this world by man for man, and with the emergence of religions among different human societies, the answers to a concept to human beings by different religions It was given, but due to the growth of thought of thoughtful people, the answers obtained from religions were not enough for philosophers, and the question of the purpose of the creation of this world is still raised among philosophers, in my opinion, considering the turning point before creation. The universe by the Creator, the departure of the single creator from his single world in order to create the universe for meaning. Because there is no meaning in single essence.
Why does there always have to be a gain? Doing to gain is just a condition of the limited human mind. ‘Hey, I scored an A’. Why can’t it be for joy of doing so. At the point of creation ‘god said it was good’. Consciousness seem to playing a game of ‘hide and seek’. Can’t we just enjoy the game? Life experience becomes so much more enjoyable that way instead of taking things so seriously.
Consciousness is like a stage on which the play of life is staged...or the screen on which a movie is projected. Consciousness is the entirety of everything.. the infinite potential of all thoughts emotions..lt is pure energy vibrating at a high frequency. Creation is at a lower level..it is based on duality...where Maya is the illusion thru which we perceive life.
I think the reason for Creation is to Create, the reason for manifestation? is to ? manifest. That which is there to Create, creates. All things manifest from the All that is, and all that ever can be. How else can it be.I learned all I know from Mooji and Pappa Ji, from reading them. If you could know every part of your self, every tiny minoote little molecule would you? sure, why not? to better know Self,such is life.
It all seems nuts...why not come into creation simply for happiness and not mostly suffering... Consciousness may be nuts ..forget Itself into happiness...
cela fait si longtemps que les vidéos de RUPERT SPIRA ne sont plus sous titrées en Français............................................................
Consciousness or the absolute self ..is only one ..or non dual in its terms or point of view of consciousness there are no reasons.. The best a human mind can get is to realize it is the reason of everything. Because human mind is dualistic for that matter ..clumsy words cant describe consciousness or make it understandable ..the language itself is a product of dualistic mind ..all it can do is to point towards its parent " the consciousness" but it cant take it there . Remember any logical and reason questioning would help only in giving the direction or a kind of sign board thats it once you have a clear sign board one progress further and search for the lost self the real self and unite with it. That's it ...
If there is a “what” but not a “why”, I feel like something is missing. Every single human asks “why”. We all wanna know why are we here, what is the reason for all of this? So infinity is giving birth, ok, but where is the part in which separate selves have a deep yearning to know “why”? Do we need to ignore this yearning and say that it’s a mistake? I am trying to find out the truth. I am Jewish and in Judaism we believe that the world was created to benefit us. So according to Judaism there is a “why”. I am trying to hear all points of view to try and find out the truth. It does not feel right to detach from the “why” or to detach in general. It feels right to be part of this world. When i was meditating a lot it felt like life is becoming less complex and simpler. Like from 3d it slowly becomes 2d. It doesn’t feel like the perfect purpose. We all enjoy complexity, we want to find a reason for it and we want to increase the complexity. For example people always want to improve, naturally we don’t want to be in the same exact place we have a desire to improve. Anyway, I wanna see how these 2 opposing views of buddhism and judaism can find a middle ground somehow.
How's this for an answer; If Consciousness is changeless as it demonstrably is, then Consciousness is eternal. If Consciousness is eternal, then Reality is a (or rather, THE) 'Self'. Being the Universal Self, it should come as no surprise that Reality has It's own Universal Organism (a.k.a. the physical universe). Being finite, the Universal Organism must be subject to change, and so it must be cyclic. It also must be asymmetrical. The only coherent asymmetry is a fractal asymmetry. So dynamic fractal asymmetry is precisely what is 'perceived'.
+saidas108 It is entertaining speculation, but it is speculation that is based on the direct experience of the fact that the manner in which change is perceived is itself always absolutely changeless.
True. however Universal Consiousness, can contain both physical and Nonphysical universes ( if u will)which one are you in? its a matter" of interpretation, to me, the spiritual, nonphysical is the permanent, more important one, perhaps to some? the material is the more important.
if you mention it , or talk of it, it therefore in fact exists, even if it only exists in the very real phenomenon called imagination, think not that that which can be imagined is unreal, it is very real, the reality that is also called phenomenal. There are many realities, the one your familiar being one.
Can anyone help me? I am always myself in my dreams. I never ever take the form of a different person. The analogy of Mary and Jane makes sense to me. I have no experience of being someone else though.
The error is that you're believing you are the things you perceive rather than the pure, timeless, spaceless awareness ("I AM") that we all are. You are not a separate body. You, the eternal being that is aware, are having an experience that appears to be a separate body. Do not confuse that with who you actually are.
I appreciated this answer. However I find the answers that anyone gives to this type of question pretty disappointing/underwhelming. The ‘creator’ just seems so ambivalent, and having no why makes it seems even more so.
FOR NO REASON IF ACT BEEN DONE WHICH IS FILLED WITH HAPPINESS. THEN IT JUST OK, BUT IF CREATION OR ANY ACT DONE WHICH IS BY ITSELF FILLED WITH SUFFERING AGONY PAIN. THEN QUESTION ARISES WHY THIS HAS BEEN DONE.
Thinking there are two ways of viewing causing to effect : As a finite story through fake psychological time, or as arisings bouncing and leading to other arisings through non-finite space in the effervescent present. LOL, chinese fortune cookie say man who go to bed with itchy bumb wake up with smelly finger
Sorry to butt in Rupert the answer lies in Hindu mythology God made the world for play. Simply cause he was bored. Just as we go to a movie for fun. And we cannot enjoy the movie if we are looking at the white screen. So we forget who we are to play the game finally to discover the real I.
If time and space dont exist in the Infinite, then Infinite isnt infinite.. Ultimately it's a paradox. if God cant do evil, then God is not all powerful. to try to say, the Infinite can't or devoid of "time and space" or anything at all, is imposing limitations to the infinite. then infinite isnt infinite.. how can we by our finite mind and words even begin to describe the infinite.
We can't. Only silence can speak truth. But no one wants to stay silent so here we are describing the indescribable anyway. Why not for the joy of doing so?
Not lost, it is in the heart of it always, it never forgets itself, but the body does overlook it, and forget it all the time. Because body is not the source of it, it cannot be affected, lost, gained.
TheLove99999 why would an infinite consciousness ever necessitate the experience of spiritual growth through a finite mind, except for pure amusement or a whim? Does infinity need to emulate a finite mind to grow spiritually or in any other way, or is it just a modulation, a game it is playing with itself upon forgetting its true nature?
What we believe, we create for ourselves in this realm... Enjoyment is definitely the purpose of it all for me. I'm just musing and proposing ideas here.
Stephen Hubbell Hence, it is stupid to give up your happiness which corresponds with the infinite and become finite and less happy or not happy at all. Something doesn't add up. The common answer given is: god acts in a mysterious way.
Why would the infinite dream all this up anyway? The all is the ALL by definition... total satisfaction, joy, i.e. everything we could ever truly be and desire. It really doesn't make sense to say anything about this existence is real... but I've found that love is all that is real within this reality... and that's why everyone seeks it, but it's what it all really is beyond the veils of perception.
In Arabic/Persian languages human being calls «Insan» which means the one who has forget him/her self ! But from the point of view of Islamic mysticism, creation NEVER happened. So God knows NOTHING about something doesn't exist . God is in the same state now as He always has been , said Muhammad ! On the other hand it says that the whole existence (Creator/Creation) is double mysteries or mystery on mystery which we will never either get to know it or understand it rather just experience it.
Rupert.. 1) As finite being, you talk about infinite God as you are able to know it.. You are not. 2) You have given to infinite being, God, finite behavior = loosing infinite mind in world of creation. This is so very human/finite perpective explanation a can not be truth. Better not create another myth in nobile silence of mind and mouth.
Do you accept an Absolute Pure Existence of all probables/possibles including impossibles? Infinity (in its potential) expands, extends and creates or allows creations. If infinity or eternity couldn't expand, extend IT couldn't be infinite. It is impossible for Absolute Existence, 'unboundedness' to be limited. All possibles/ probables allow a free-will of extension to limiting realities. To EXPERIENCE is something most valued- even to a human with its imperfectness. The WHY Question? All-encompassing SOMETHING is more valuable or divine or Godly than Absolute NON-Existence. It is impossible for (Something) (God ) to NOT exist. It has always existed (eternity) It is even inconceivable for an (IDEA) of non-existence to exist. Try it! Creation trumps its opposite.
Rupert there is no finite objects in the universe even god. Whatever manifests is constantly in flux in flow, there is no speaker, listener or writer, yet there is speaking, listening, and writing. No you or me, no Mary or Jane, just stories of you and me, of Mary and Jane. The screen is changing as well as the scenario. God, Buddha nature, Atman, life, can never be explained, only felt as a knowing. Perhaps it’s time to be silent on those matters Rupert.???
Sending lots of gratitude to Rupert and the team that make his work and videos possible. Thank you!
Yes! So much gratitude to have access and get to take part of this knowing
Usually everything Rupert says resonates with my own inner knowledge. But here I think there's more to it. Why this trick into the limited mind? Why is the universe doing this? Of course, this is just words, and the "why" is always limited by an explanation, but I feel something in my experience that I think can resonate with a different explanation.
Because in my experience, there is always the palpable sense that paying attention to the reality as it flowers, unfolds and expands is of utmost importance. When you look at the moon, it says "look at me. 'Im usually here, and yet, this time, but you and me are creating something right now that has never happened, and you need to pay attention, because something is happening."
There is also the sense in experience, that each expansion of one's known experience creates an expanded platform upon which subsequent experience and knowing can occur.
I suggest that this "trick" of universal consciousness into the smaller self isn't just so conscious can know itself, but I think it is so that the very platform of consciousness can be expanded. This universal consciousness has been described as a static universal platform within which the "world of form" happens, but I don't know, I really think that it is expanded through this division into smaller selves.
I like this story. It actually makes a space for why the world of form is so dizzyingly infinitely complex, it makes a space for personal creativity, for humanity as the tip of this complexity, it positions all our crazy new technology as the tip of this expanding reality (it is not irrelevant), and also holds a place for that feeling that we all have that change seems to be accelerating, and even that we seem to be reaching a crescendo.
It might even explain why the direct path seems so obvious now, why older spiritual texts seem to be pointing to what seems so patently obvious in such difficult to understand terms. It could be that we are maybe even more aware and present than we used to be... that these states are somehow easier to reach... sort of like when we suddenly discovered perspective, or realistic drawing... possibly the field of awareness has been growing and expanding along with this expansion into complexity....
thank you great comment to me it also seems like there is missing something just because we don't know why it would do such a thing doesn't mean there's no reason. I think Tom Campbell with his virtual reality Theorie also kinda includes this expansion and entropy reduction which seems a little more fitting as a theoretical model. Not that it's really important and potentially one can become aware of infinite consciousness and then just knows but yeah.
How can the infinite be expanded? It is infinite. I believe the infinite separates and thus; creates the finite to simply have experiences. In the same way that the finite plays video games to have experiences. The infinite sees through the eyes of the finite and the finite sees through the eyes of the video game character. Each experience for the infinite is unique depending on the finite entity; just like each experience for the finite is unique depending on the video game character. It's ultimately all about creation. For each entity to have experiences; creation must occur. The infinite must create the finite and the finite must create the video game. The process of creation is just a natural consequence of seeking experience and the knowledge of said experience is unknown until it has been experienced
I also have the sense that there’s more to the story here. Rupert’s model of consciousness tells us that consciousness/pure awareness is whole and complete as is. This is why his explanation for existence boils down to “just because”. Your model makes more sense to me as it indicates that consciousness is making a real effort to expand which seems to be the case in our experience, however, this would suggest that consciousness is not complete and if consciousness/ pure awareness is not content with itself as is, then what exactly is it reaching for? It’s difficult to say because I am thinking from the perspective of a human mind that is limited, but I think this is one of those great mysteries which we will never know ( in this form at least).
Thanks alot for words of wisdom , we are fortunate to have access to such profound wisdom.🙏🙏
I must admit he does explain the unexplainable very well, one of the best I've seen
As usual, great answer, Rupert. The way I see it: As God is infinite, so goes His creation. Therefore, anything that can exist, must exist. For example, within another universe, I have written this same comment, but forgot to add a comma, and so on, ad infinitum. Nisargadatta tackles this question from another angle: "That which is beginningless cannot have a cause."
So Beautiful. 🙏🙏🙏
To know your Self again is ecstasy. That’s why
one of the best video i have ever watched!!
Thanks Rupert Spira!!!
Always on the Mark 🙏Infinite Gratitude 🌟✨💫⭐️🌻🌞
Why does a creative being create? Well, because it is a creating being:)
such a great guy
Everything in reality is reality(the 'I'). Reality is itself creating itself to experience what it can imagine. We conscious beings are reality itself imagining/manifesting our own creations from what was already created/known. Creation is purpose and happiness. Creation is liberation.
You will feel no better bliss than sharing what you express through your highest form of creation. Whether it's your children, your words, or any form of art. If someone understands and is captivated by your creation, that oneness feeling is life.
Are ya sure?
Yes
I believe that, because of the purity of Consciousness, it cannot experience anything...
But when Consciousness is Creating it forgets himself, then it had created the darkness where it can have all kinds of experiences, through an ego-mind....
Later, the real experience is to trascend itself like an ego-mind and remember what it is....
Because, of the experiences that the
ego-mind lived, it believes that it is real...
Now the ego-mind must recognised that all was an illusion, letting the Pure Light of Consciousness take its place.
Thank you Rupert sir. Eternally grateful to you 🙏
Wonderful!
as always, simply beautiful
Thank you
You are saving us! Thank you.
Thank you!
Here’s a possibility, and as much as I love Rupert and all the rest, maybe none of us has a fucking clue why all this is going on, how it’s going on or what we’re supposed to be doing, if anything.
If I’m going to be open minded, I need to be open minded enough to accept the possibility that none of us knows any more than anyone else and maybe none of us knows at all.
Thank you so much for this
Namaste 🙏🏼
Thank you Rupert 🙏🏼 So creation is an act of love, but, why does consciousness still does it knowing perfectly that a lot of suffering is involved? Is there anyway of giving consciousness a feedback on this .. I doubt that this act still comes out of love with the additional information that a huge amount of suffering is involved …
Thanks for sharing. In Love...
Bravo, one of the few postings where Rupert specifies that the lollipop is not real. i know there are various degrees of preferences for sugarcoating the truth [or not]. i also understand that the answer is provided to match the level of understanding of the one who poses the question [revealed by the question itself] . However, 'the client is always right' should not be applied here considering that the discussion is not private. i urge Rupert to always specify that the lollipop is not real to avoid confusing those who were on the right path and now they are diverted because of the lollipop... From my perspective i'd prefer to have the truth stated first and then offer the lollipop as a concession, emphasizing the on the concession aspect.
He has addressed this several times. To always answer with "There is no xxx" is a common Advaita reply that doesn't really satisfy a questioner. An answer is relative. On one level it is true, but on another it is not. I think that one who would really understand that answer and be satisfied would already know it and therefore would not need to ask the question or need the clarity.
saidas108
what's 'several' to you is 'few' to me. things are not that black or white, i.e. understanding [at an intellectual level] is most of the time a gradual process, very often frustrating. A misunderstanding can set you back for a while, unnecessarily increasing the frustration. That's my experience.
daisilui I'm not sure I'm getting your point in reference to what I said. :)
well, you see, perfect example- clarity in communication is paramount, even more so when it comes to teaching the truth. One of the fundamental concepts of teaching advaita is being clear when providing answers whether they fall within the absolute or the relative reality. It is my experience that it is not enough to do it once in a while only, especially when considering the many shades of ignorance of the audience on youtube, even among the more seasoned followers. It is also my experience that memory works very badly when it comes to remembering the teachings of advaita and therefore i don't think that anybody would get offended by being continuously reminded of the absolute truth, on the contrary...
i am not sure if you are still not clear in getting my point in reference to what you said in response to what i said :)
daisilui OK. I got it now. Thanks for the clarification and I agree. :)
A great answer. One of the best lollipops I’ve heard is : the infinite contains all finite forms. The infinite also contains are prior states of finite forms.
The fact that there are finite forms changes nothing about infinity.
Western science has so many good answers to these questions. And what they don't have answers for now - they promise they will have soon. Or certainly eventually. I can hardly wait....
I think Rupert missed a great opportunity here to expound the ultimate thesis of Advait Vedanta regarding the issue of creation. viz. The thesis of "Ajaatvaad" literally meaning non-birth" or "non-creation" of the universe in reality.
Only Ajaatvaad, in essence, can satisfactorily and conclusively answer the question asked. Rupert's invoking the analogy of parents bringing forth a child out of causeless love or an artist creating out of an irrational impulse etc. takes one away from the fundamental Ajaatvaadic assertion that the ultimate and non-dual irreducible substratum of this universe, Brahman, is eternally changeless, never really subject to Birth, decay and Death and that this Universe is never created in Reality.
So the question about why it was created stands disposed.
Rupert, I am sure you would agree and say this in your own wonderful way next time when that question is raised.
Many Thanks !
i don't see Rupert as a scholar; i assume he has the knowledge and could have mentioned the 'thesis of Ajaatvaad' but that would have been just for the mind. The question itself was just for the mind too [why does it matter- who wants to know?!- the ego...] by making consciousness an object, a cause that determines an effect. On a deeper investigation of the i that perceive a universe it would be revealed that there is no i and with the disappearance of the ego giving birth to the i, the universe goes too [as they rise and fall together].
"just for the mind".... Yes. that's correct. But this being a Q&A session and not a meditation session, it is the mind that is asking and hence needs to be satisfied with the most elegant and perfect explanation.
So I thought.
Also it would have been a treat to hear an exposition of "Ajaatvaad" in the English language from the able speech of Rupert.
Rgds.
You and a handful of others would even be remotely familiar with what you are talking about. This is not Rupert's audience. There are numerous Advaita Vedanta scholars who would be happy to go on and on for hours and even years like that and to what end? Does understanding an esoteric point like that Awaken or just entertain?
Blending perfect theoretical explanations with practical intuitions is most welcome and the hallmark of any great teacher. I regard Rupert as one and thought he just missed the opportunity, which he surely could have made great use of given his deep grasp of the theory as well as the essential truths that the theories so beautifully state. IMHO there need not be any aversion to thorough theoretical exposition and understanding as long as it does not obstruct the actual experience with bookish learning.
Rgds.
i have a feeling you want to put the cart before the horse...theoretical
expositions have value only if they are supporting the transmission of
the truth otherwise they are just entertainment, as saidas rightfully
noted. i dare to suppose that Rupert is seasoned enough to know when
such a theoretical exposition is appropriate. Given the question asked,
that reveals the understanding of the inquirer [probably close to that of the general
audience], he probably considered to be a waste of time that would add
no value to his response, and even more, may become an obstruction to
understanding of what really matters.
Addressing the question of "Why would infinite consciousness choose to make the creation event happen?"
Space and Time themselves are forms that radiate out from their source (which is formless awareness or consciousness) and provide a Space/Time form-structure, or the 3D screen upon which our reality script plays itself out.
Thought processes of any kind take time to play themselves out. It is not possible to have thoughts or thinking or reasoning without the presence of time. Choosing to do this or that or nothing at all are also processes that occur within the structure of time.
The mistake that is perhaps being made here, is that one can't assume that formless Awareness or Consciousness are themselves bound by the structure, or form, of Time. That would be to assign a form to the formless, which doesn't work. This is assumed in the question itself, where formless awareness is pictured caught up in Time, thinking about a possible action, deciding to take action, taking action, etc. So, the question can't really be asked or answered in any meaningful way.
It's interesting...
Maybe evolution of world/mind is in reality 'devolution' of 'original' consciousness 'state'.. modulation of consciousness in form (by some power) including mind.. so maybe when creation is 'too much' modulated/fragmented/detailed, it looses awareness about source.. or about its own non-modulated 'form'/'state'... could be something like this? If ability of thinking and/or thought process is also part of creation, maybe we are just over-thought.. in an effort to be happy...😃..
Peace...
consciousness does what it does, no cause, no reason, no result. not upon, not on, not in and not for. it does what it does
daaaaang!!!!!
Haha 😆 my friend used to say that - daaaang! Lol
💙
In the limited period of human life, from the beginning of human life, this question has always been raised by the purpose of the creation of this world by man for man, and with the emergence of religions among different human societies, the answers to a concept to human beings by different religions It was given, but due to the growth of thought of thoughtful people, the answers obtained from religions were not enough for philosophers, and the question of the purpose of the creation of this world is still raised among philosophers, in my opinion, considering the turning point before creation. The universe by the Creator, the departure of the single creator from his single world in order to create the universe for meaning. Because there is no meaning in single essence.
Why does there always have to be a gain? Doing to gain is just a condition of the limited human mind. ‘Hey, I scored an A’. Why can’t it be for joy of doing so. At the point of creation ‘god said it was good’. Consciousness seem to playing a game of ‘hide and seek’. Can’t we just enjoy the game? Life experience becomes so much more enjoyable that way instead of taking things so seriously.
Consciousness is like a stage on which the play of life is staged...or the screen on which a movie is projected.
Consciousness is the entirety of everything.. the infinite potential of all thoughts emotions..lt is pure energy vibrating at a high frequency.
Creation is at a lower level..it is based on duality...where Maya is the illusion thru which we perceive life.
We ask why? I ask why not? :)
I think the reason for Creation is to Create, the reason for manifestation? is to ? manifest. That which is there to Create, creates. All things manifest from the All that is, and all that ever can be. How else can it be.I learned all I know from Mooji and Pappa Ji, from reading them. If you could know every part of your self, every tiny minoote little molecule would you? sure, why not? to better know Self,such is life.
It all seems nuts...why not come into creation simply for happiness and not mostly suffering... Consciousness may be nuts ..forget Itself into happiness...
cela fait si longtemps que les vidéos de RUPERT SPIRA ne sont plus sous titrées en Français............................................................
I really wish Rupert would not interrupt so much. It’s really disturbs the flow of the conversation.
Consciousness or the absolute self ..is only one ..or non dual in its terms or point of view of consciousness there are no reasons.. The best a human mind can get is to realize it is the reason of everything. Because human mind is dualistic for that matter ..clumsy words cant describe consciousness or make it understandable ..the language itself is a product of dualistic mind ..all it can do is to point towards its parent " the consciousness" but it cant take it there . Remember any logical and reason questioning would help only in giving the direction or a kind of sign board thats it once you have a clear sign board one progress further and search for the lost self the real self and unite with it. That's it ...
So in other words, an advanced form of VR?
God does it simply to Taste Itself. Honey does not know it’s sweetness unless it becomes temporary something else
If there is a “what” but not a “why”, I feel like something is missing. Every single human asks “why”. We all wanna know why are we here, what is the reason for all of this? So infinity is giving birth, ok, but where is the part in which separate selves have a deep yearning to know “why”? Do we need to ignore this yearning and say that it’s a mistake? I am trying to find out the truth. I am Jewish and in Judaism we believe that the world was created to benefit us. So according to Judaism there is a “why”. I am trying to hear all points of view to try and find out the truth. It does not feel right to detach from the “why” or to detach in general. It feels right to be part of this world. When i was meditating a lot it felt like life is becoming less complex and simpler. Like from 3d it slowly becomes 2d. It doesn’t feel like the perfect purpose. We all enjoy complexity, we want to find a reason for it and we want to increase the complexity. For example people always want to improve, naturally we don’t want to be in the same exact place we have a desire to improve. Anyway, I wanna see how these 2 opposing views of buddhism and judaism can find a middle ground somehow.
can't be two things at the same time
How's this for an answer; If Consciousness is changeless as it demonstrably is, then Consciousness is eternal. If Consciousness is eternal, then Reality is a (or rather, THE) 'Self'. Being the Universal Self, it should come as no surprise that Reality has It's own Universal Organism (a.k.a. the physical universe). Being finite, the Universal Organism must be subject to change, and so it must be cyclic. It also must be asymmetrical. The only coherent asymmetry is a fractal asymmetry. So dynamic fractal asymmetry is precisely what is 'perceived'.
Does understanding that Awaken or just entertain?
+saidas108 It is entertaining speculation, but it is speculation that is based on the direct experience of the fact that the manner in which change is perceived is itself always absolutely changeless.
True. however Universal Consiousness, can contain both physical and Nonphysical universes ( if u will)which one are you in? its a matter" of interpretation, to me, the spiritual, nonphysical is the permanent, more important one, perhaps to some? the material is the more important.
if you mention it , or talk of it, it therefore in fact exists, even if it only exists in the very real phenomenon called imagination, think not that that which can be imagined is unreal, it is very real, the reality that is also called phenomenal.
There are many realities, the one your familiar being one.
Reverend Eslam Are you Hindu?
God is infinit consciousness mind is the energy field Maya in which finite minds are manifest as beings.
I mean you can’t even say anything about this. So interesting
Can anyone help me? I am always myself in my dreams. I never ever take the form of a different person. The analogy of Mary and Jane makes sense to me. I have no experience of being someone else though.
The error is that you're believing you are the things you perceive rather than the pure, timeless, spaceless awareness ("I AM") that we all are. You are not a separate body. You, the eternal being that is aware, are having an experience that appears to be a separate body. Do not confuse that with who you actually are.
I appreciated this answer. However I find the answers that anyone gives to this type of question pretty disappointing/underwhelming. The ‘creator’ just seems so ambivalent, and having no why makes it seems even more so.
FOR NO REASON IF ACT BEEN DONE WHICH IS FILLED WITH HAPPINESS. THEN IT JUST OK, BUT IF CREATION OR ANY ACT DONE WHICH IS BY ITSELF FILLED WITH SUFFERING AGONY PAIN. THEN QUESTION ARISES WHY THIS HAS BEEN DONE.
Why infinite Consciousness is doing this???
Intrinsic necessity perhaps..
Thinking there are two ways of viewing causing to effect : As a finite story through fake psychological time, or as arisings bouncing and leading to other arisings through non-finite space in the effervescent present. LOL, chinese fortune cookie say man who go to bed with itchy bumb wake up with smelly finger
Sorry to butt in Rupert the answer lies in Hindu mythology God made the world for play. Simply cause he was bored. Just as we go to a movie for fun. And we cannot enjoy the movie if we are looking at the white screen. So we forget who we are to play the game finally to discover the real I.
wow, thats very good something i will think about
If time and space dont exist in the Infinite, then Infinite isnt infinite..
Ultimately it's a paradox. if God cant do evil, then God is not all powerful.
to try to say, the Infinite can't or devoid of "time and space" or anything at all, is imposing limitations to the infinite. then infinite isnt infinite..
how can we by our finite mind and words even begin to describe the infinite.
We can't. Only silence can speak truth. But no one wants to stay silent so here we are describing the indescribable anyway. Why not for the joy of doing so?
Consciousness lost in expetience.
Not lost, it is in the heart of it always, it never forgets itself, but the body does overlook it, and forget it all the time. Because body is not the source of it, it cannot be affected, lost, gained.
I don't agree with Rupert on this one..... I think spiritual growth through experience for the finite mind is the answer!
Hence reincarnation!!
TheLove99999 why would an infinite consciousness ever necessitate the experience of spiritual growth through a finite mind, except for pure amusement or a whim? Does infinity need to emulate a finite mind to grow spiritually or in any other way, or is it just a modulation, a game it is playing with itself upon forgetting its true nature?
Stephen Hubbell it's worth living?
What we believe, we create for ourselves in this realm... Enjoyment is definitely the purpose of it all for me. I'm just musing and proposing ideas here.
Stephen Hubbell
Hence, it is stupid to give up your happiness which corresponds with the infinite and become finite and less happy or not happy at all. Something doesn't add up. The common answer given is: god acts in a mysterious way.
Why would the infinite dream all this up anyway? The all is the ALL by definition... total satisfaction, joy, i.e. everything we could ever truly be and desire.
It really doesn't make sense to say anything about this existence is real... but I've found that love is all that is real within this reality... and that's why everyone seeks it, but it's what it all really is beyond the veils of perception.
In Arabic/Persian languages human being calls «Insan» which means the one who has forget him/her self ! But from the point of view of Islamic mysticism, creation NEVER happened. So God knows NOTHING about something doesn't exist . God is in the same state now as He always has been , said Muhammad ! On the other hand it says that the whole existence (Creator/Creation) is double mysteries or mystery on mystery which we will never either get to know it or understand it rather just experience it.
Rupert..
1) As finite being, you talk about infinite God as you are able to know it.. You are not.
2) You have given to infinite being, God, finite behavior = loosing infinite mind in world of creation. This is so very human/finite perpective explanation a can not be truth. Better not create another myth in nobile silence of mind and mouth.
Do you accept an Absolute Pure Existence of all probables/possibles including impossibles? Infinity (in its potential) expands, extends and creates or allows creations. If infinity or eternity couldn't expand, extend IT couldn't be infinite. It is impossible for Absolute Existence, 'unboundedness' to be limited. All possibles/ probables allow a free-will of extension to limiting realities.
To EXPERIENCE is something most valued- even to a human with its imperfectness. The WHY Question? All-encompassing SOMETHING is more valuable or divine or Godly than Absolute NON-Existence.
It is impossible for (Something) (God ) to NOT exist. It has always existed (eternity) It is even inconceivable for an (IDEA) of non-existence to exist. Try it! Creation trumps its opposite.
Rupert there is no finite objects in the universe even god. Whatever manifests is constantly in flux in flow, there is no speaker, listener or writer, yet there is speaking, listening, and writing. No you or me, no Mary or Jane, just stories of you and me, of Mary and Jane. The screen is changing as well as the scenario. God, Buddha nature, Atman, life, can never be explained, only felt as a knowing. Perhaps it’s time to be silent on those matters Rupert.???
Now go wash the dishes..