It’s tragic that other firearms asides the M1 Carbine never became popular for using 30 Carbine. The French Ceam 1950 deserved to have been just as popular as the MP5.
Everybody likes carbines and carbine calibers since they tend to be very lightweight, handy, and useful that almost anybody can operate effectively and find a use for.
As for the mysterious tube on the top cover, there were MAGAL versions with various sights mounts on the top cover, see for example "The New Israeli Micro Galil: Semi-automatic MAGAL .30 carbine" in "Small Arms Review". But AK top cover can be somewhat shaky, especially, left to right. The tube might be the shell of a spring-loaded plunger (12:46) whose front end is pressed against the sloped face of the front trunnion thus providing more solid and reproducible positioning of the top cover.
I was wondering if it could hold a chemlight or small flashlight. That way in the dark you could see to clear jams, but when the bolt was closed it wouldn't be seen.
My theory is it was a tracking device holder. If you were going to send these into riot situations you would have to anticipate that they might be taken or lost. Having a secret spot where a locator could be slipped in could be useful. It’s on the top cover because you would want it to be quickly accessible to anyone who knew what they were looking for. If you buried it in the stock or something it couldn’t be removed for everyday use and you wouldn’t want your police tracked on the daily.
As a kid, my dad had several M1 carbines and he experimented with bullets to use soft points. I think what he settled on was a Hornady soft point that had a jacket design which would still feed well in the carbines. In his carbines they fed reliably and were very effective on Jack Rabbits and coyotes. Love that little weapon. Very interesting, Ian. Thank you! God bless all here. 😊😊😊
These guns were adopted in 2000 by brazilian state of Pará. Taurus hired a bunch of shooters to demonstrate how the 40 S&W was a much wiser and better option (Taurus had a 40 SMG at that moment). Months later Taurus released its 30 caliber FAMAE carbine and the 30 carbine became the best police round ever! Monopol...
I would have assumed it was due to .30 carbine being not as easy to procure in S. American compared to .40. But you can't blame the sales guys at Taurus for trying.
@@seangibreath5381 I was wondering if it could hold a chemlight. That way in the dark you could see to clear jams, but when the bolt was closed it wouldn't be seen.
Nicely done Ian, the MAGAL may have never been that popular due to its reliability issues but frankly it's pretty nice and unique to look at and i'm happy that Royal Armouries Museum gave you access to one of those scarce SMGs.
Yes! There’s finally a video about this gun! I love researching obscure guns in small calibers, like in .30 carbine. I’m so happy this exists! Thanks, Ian! ❤️
@@dallesamllhals9161 idk, just compared to larger guns Ian has reviewed on his channel. I have respect for the .30 carbine, but it ain’t all that either when compared to what we see in the concept of more modern rifle carbines.
Now this is a gun that I wouldn't even have dreamt of existing if it wasn't for Ian's nerd-impetus to explore almost every possible kind of ammo-platform matchup. The very idea of a .30 carbine round in a Galil derivative is only apparent to someone who knows that the Israelis use it extensively in their service and wouldn't have occured to anyone who is more familiar with the dominant 9 mm or Tokarev derivatives in most police use. Thank you Ian for letting us all appreciate a weapon-ammo matchup that is both exotic and yet also fitting once you consider its utility!!!!
I used to have a Ruger single action revolver in 30 cal carbine. The only problem was that it was sometimes difficult to eject the empty cases from the cylinder because they tended to expand when fired, but didn't always relax from the chamber walls when I tried to reload.
@@clothar23Cooler as in power or cooler in terms of being cool? Because as for power, all 30 Carbine, excluding Buffalo Bore (and maybe some weird company that lasted 2 months, then died), is the same. If you're talking about coolness factor, nothing is cooler than 30. Carbine.
@@ShogunMongol Nah more like hand loading to a slightly less powerful load. Since as you say commercial rounds are more or less loaded the same. My only other idea would maybe to have the cylinder polished and lined with a new coating.
I owned one of those. It was scary and accurate. The muzzle blast was horrible! Easily one of the loudest handguns I ever fired. I didn't have the sticky chamber problem in mine.
I still think that for short range situations where body armor isn't expected, .30 carbine is the best PDW round ever made. It's basically a .357 in a long gun. This MAGAL is a good idea and other developers should work on something similar.
Was a volunteer police officer since 1999 and I never saw these, is indeed rare. We used the standard caliber 5.56 30 round magazines These were again short lived as the police soon moved to M4 5.56 military standard rifles that are being used presently.
my experience with a 5.56 galil is that when a casing gets stuck in the inside, where this extra metal tub was added, this causes a really hard to clear malf, you get besides that jammed casing one or more rounds pop out of the magazine. so I imagine that with a shorter cartridge it would happen more often
Just as a note on the reduced mag capacity, I typically only put 25 rds in my 30 rd mags. It's been my experience that I have significantly fewer reliabilty issued when I don't load the mags to full capacity. YMMV.
I choose to believe that someone knew what the little pipe thing was welded in the receiver, but they couldn’t comment for the first couple of hours so we’ll never know. Thanks RUclips.
According to a guy on reddit who made his own replica of Magal this is indeed for better case extraction. Otherwise cases have a tendency to get stuck there
Thank you Ian! I have been wanting for this one from you for awhile! MAGAL is very interesting and I wish IWI would think about about a retro for the US market!
@@Swindle1984OR I'll carry the lighter gun and 100-500 extra rounds of ammunition. I've never met a combat vet who said "gee I sure wish I had less ammunition in that last fight" Being a meathead doesn't make you cool.
@@A_potato9772 The ACE is 2.1lb lighter. 1lb of 5.56, without clips or magazines, is 37 rounds. You're not carrying 500 rounds of ammo with the weight savings of an ACE. You're also not carrying 500 rounds unless you're a SAW gunner.
Are you sure the aperture is 500 metres, not 50 metres? I mean, a 50 metre precision aperture in .30 carbine would make a lot more sense than a 500 meter one. Also the change in height of the center of the aperture doesnt seem enough for 500m zero vs 50-150m "battle sight"
It amazes me how many different firearms are chambered in .30 M1 Carbine. The originals, the Auto Mag III, the Ruger Blackhawk and now this. When I was just getting into my fire arms interests one of the first ideas I had for a wildcat was just a .30 M1 Carbine case fireformed with a shoulder, and no other changes. Now we have the .300 Blackout!!!
One of the export customers was the Pará State Military Police in Brazil that bought almost 600 of them in late 2000/early 2001. Some of them are still in service and many have also been diverted and get seized in police operations across the country.
.30 carbine is not a pistol or submachinegun bullet. At 1,300 joules it's only marginally less potent than 5.56 (~1,700 joules) and since it's a bigger, slower round, it retains its energy better over longer distances. 9mm packs at most 700 joules of kinetic energy which makes it a much more preferable choice for minimizing collateral damage and unwanted overpenetration, as well as training. Put it differently, for police work, 9mm is the go-to close range sane kinetic energy round, whereas 5.56 that is already abundunant in the military can do everything else (counter-terrorism and other high profile barricaded suspect situations). The only reason the Israeli police used .30 carbine to begin with is that M1 and M2 Carbines were a dime a dozen after World War 2 and it needed something cheap (or even free - if I recall correctly, the M1 Carbines were gifted by Jewish Americans donors). There was a lot of ammo lying around, so they toyed with the idea. If you want to go even deeper in the rabbit hole, look into the HEZI rifle which is simply a modernization of the M1 Carbine. Also, another factoid, "magal" in Hebrew means scythe, but it also sort of abbreviates "Police Galil" in Hebrew ("Galil mishtara").
Question: What would be the feasibility of importing these for sale in the US? Since they were never full auto, seems like the only issue is the barrel length, which could be solved with 7 inch long pinned on muzzle device, and or new barrels. I'm sure they'd sell for a pretty penny in the US.
No comments on a vid that's over 5 hours old? I suspect yt dickery... Pretty cool carbine. I think the 30 carbine is a great cqb round... sad to see it fall by the wayside
@@ayyyyph2797 I've seen that a few times now. The recent-ish Canadian M1911 video had comments disabled when it went up, for no apparent reason (later enabled).
With YT it could any number of bullshit reasons: MAGA(L) in the title, the Israeli flag in the thumbnail, the video being about a firearm, Ian not combing his hair enough, goofy ass auto-censoring and captioning bugs. God only knows with how YT operates.
My theory on that tube is that it was a tracking device holder. If you were going to send these into riot situations you would have to anticipate that they might be taken or lost. Having a secret spot where a locator could be slipped in could be useful. It’s on the top cover because you would want it to be quickly accessible to anyone who knew what they were looking for. If you buried it in the stock or something it couldn’t be removed for everyday use and you wouldn’t want your police tracked on regular duty. That would also explain why it’s not documented. It might have never been used either, just an option the factory included. Either that or they felt every 30 carbine should have at least one good spot for an oil bottle. That spring loaded dust cap is weird though, who would want a flashlight to be under spring tension?
You are correct about the ejection dynamics and the placement of that tube. How do I know this? I heard it from a friend who, heard it from a friend who, heard from somebody you've been messing around... with awesome forgotten weapons! Cheers Ian!!
Brazil's Pará state military police still uses them they got something like 400 units with meprolight sights back in 2001, Taurus and Famae made a .30 carbine version of the Famae SAF/Taurus CT too, but that one had several issues that even lead Taurus to be blacklisted from supplying guns to the São Paulo state military police for 2 years back in 2019.
Pity they decided to use the 30-round M2 mags; those were always problematic. I'd be curious to see if switching to good quality 15-round mags would have any impact on reliability.
My cousin has an M-1 carbine. Ww2 era. His other grandpa somehow ended up with one after the war. Poker game or something. He was Navy. Anyway, that thing shot like a Cadillac! Very comfortable to shoot. But much past 100 yards was pretty much the same as indirect fire 🤣
I first heard of this gun in a mod for Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six (Rogue Spear, I think specifically). My mod folder was larger than the entire game file, LOL. I was fascinated with the idea and wondered why they didn't catch on as .30 Carbine seemed a good home defense/law enforcement cartridge. Ah, but yeah, same troublesome magazines heavily modified. Plus during that time we were in the midst of our thankfully temporary AWB. In any case, thanks for info on a gun a much younger me was fascinated with.
Ruger did a short run of Blackhawks in .30 cal. carbine. I've seen one and shot it- it was a monster! If you can find one, could you do a critique on it? Liked the piece on the MAGAL, was a bit surprised at the caliber choice, but your research as usual made some sense of it. Thanks!
I think that tube in the top cover has to do with a case deflector to prevent cases from popping up in there. Maybe if the ejector was further forward it wouldn't have been an issue? Assuming that was the issue...
Take a guess. Give people a couple of hours to cool their tempers. I know he records these in advanced and months ahead of release sometimes, but commentary don't always know that and might think he's trying to make a statement or something stupid.
Ian has previously said on Patreon that sometimes comments are occasionally turned off at random rather than by his doing. It happened a few times recently and when questioned he reactivated them.
i've always liked the idea of a .30 carbine PDW considering it's energy transfer over the "high velocity penetrator" rounds this though...? it had a few ok parts but the edges were *rough*
The Tube in top cover coincides with the large amount of lightening the carrier took on the left side. It's odd to see 2 carriers like the one you shown as they both look like Magal carriers to me. Out of all the early horizontal MAR carriers I've seen the only ones with lightening cuts like the 2 you've shown are for Magal. I would reason to believe you have 2 Magal carriers in video. Not to say IMI didn't put these in MAR but it suspect to me. The small tube takes the empty space up amd like you said will help prevent shells from entry in that area . Try another true early MAR carrier with that top cover and you will see what I'm talking about. Need pics let me know 😃
To add my voice to the proponents of 30 carbine, it's a very handy round for a lot of non front line confrontations. I would have a dozen WWII specification carbines made by current makers to modern standards and designed magazines. Too bad all the attempts at bringing it back have been by less than quality manufacturers.
Really peculiar. Nice video, thanks. My initial thought on the mystery tube was indeed "to bounce extracting rounds?". Curious if you ever find out a proper answer!
Could tube in the top cover be an ejection block used to guide the spent casing out of the ejection port? Guess we just have to take them both to the range and see what happens. 😁
I think I used to draw this gun in the spaces between my notes back in middle school. My stick-figure army was well armed with the ugliest fricking gun in the world
That lil magazine on that chunky micro galil i just feel it wrong i know why is made that way the should made a mini micro galil for maching all the parts
Ian, et al, the hebrew on the top right of the Magal's markings don't spell "carbine." They spell "Magal". Right to left, that's Mem-Gimel-Lamed, M-G-L. (Hebrew often drops vowels which is why you don't have a couple alephs in there).
Really ingenious how they utilized the "extra" length in the magazine area to house the last-round bolt hold-open, and similarly shortened the necessary rearward stroke of the bolt with a thicker buffer. Definitely reduced the re-tooling to a minimum. Efficient design and interesting specimen.
I didn’t know about the MAGAL so when I saw the video I got really excited thinking the Israelis had adopted it and would be ramping up .30 carbine production. Oh cheap surplus ammo for my M1, why have you forsaken me?
Can't help noticing that Ian pronounces "Galil" the French way. Israelis put the accent on the second syllable. By all means, correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, why do police have to be limited to semi-auto? Shouldn't they at least have a 2- or 3-round burst-fire option? The bad guys certainly don't impose those sorts of "rules" on themselves. If these were select-fire, they might have sold better internationally.
@@skepticalbadger I only point out the French pronunciation because Ian's a frankaboo (aka "ouiaboo"). Not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm a slavaboo, muhself.
Police never needs that level of firepower for what they do and it's rare for police to be properly trained to handle automatic firearms, as in burst of full auto firing ones. It makes the firearm easier to use, removes possibility of a mistake and makes it "safer" due to limiting possible user negligence
@@judsongaiden9878 I can see that, yeah, but I wouldn't rely on police much, honestly When the war was where I am right now, the police vanished. With all of their gear, military and police training. So I still think it's pointless
Great video but I question if the Israeli police ever used the M1 carbine. I have never seen their use. Certainly up to the 1980s local community security neighbourhood watch patrol made use of very antiquated M1 carbines or they are used for tour groups but never by the police from my recollection. It’s more probable M16a2s are used. They said a great video.
About a decade ago, I still saw some M1 carbines around with private and local security entities. Had a guy checking our bags outside a supermarket in Tiberias with an M1. In J-town, most of the police officers were equipped with M4's, same as the military patrols.
@@DiggingForFacts exactly. I have not seen M1 carbines used for years. Military police were using Enfield revolvers in the 1980s! But agree police typically have better access to equipment and now it’s superlative. Often comparable or better than some army units.
@@jacobnewman3797 Not at all! Possibly the most confusing thing in the gun world is cartridge nomenclature! I mean shit. 22 Hornet, 219 Zipper, 220 Swift, 221 Remington Fireball, 222 Rem, 223 Rem, 224 Weatherby and 225 Winchester? ALL use 224 projectiles.. Enough to drive you mad. 38 Special? 357 projectile. 44 Magnum? .429 projectile. LOL My 1895 Steyr is the worst of the lot... it's called "8 x 56R" but does it use a .323 projectile like every other "8mm"? NO.. of course not... it uses .329!
It’s tragic that other firearms asides the M1 Carbine never became popular for using 30 Carbine. The French Ceam 1950 deserved to have been just as popular as the MP5.
There's an alternate timeline where 30 carbine has an many options as 5.56
Ruger blackhawk in 30 carbine is cool.
Why? World Police 'murica no likey 9mm?
@@dallesamllhals9161WTF does this mean?
The M1 Carbine could have been the AK-47 during the cold war era... but the Ak-47 showed up.
I always like to see different firearms in .30 carbine, not sure why it’s always been so fascinating to me
The first (popularized) pdw cartridge.
@@zhongligaming3734 A very under appreciated cartridge.
It's amazing what a pile of available surplus can be the progenitor of
Same!
Everybody likes carbines and carbine calibers since they tend to be very lightweight, handy, and useful that almost anybody can operate effectively and find a use for.
As for the mysterious tube on the top cover, there were MAGAL versions with various sights mounts on the top cover, see for example "The New Israeli Micro Galil: Semi-automatic MAGAL .30 carbine" in "Small Arms Review". But AK top cover can be somewhat shaky, especially, left to right.
The tube might be the shell of a spring-loaded plunger (12:46) whose front end is pressed against the sloped face of the front trunnion thus providing more solid and reproducible positioning of the top cover.
I was wondering if it could hold a chemlight or small flashlight. That way in the dark you could see to clear jams, but when the bolt was closed it wouldn't be seen.
@@nickcody7257dont need light to clear the rare malfunction in the feild
My theory is it was a tracking device holder. If you were going to send these into riot situations you would have to anticipate that they might be taken or lost. Having a secret spot where a locator could be slipped in could be useful. It’s on the top cover because you would want it to be quickly accessible to anyone who knew what they were looking for. If you buried it in the stock or something it couldn’t be removed for everyday use and you wouldn’t want your police tracked on the daily.
As a kid, my dad had several M1 carbines and he experimented with bullets to use soft points. I think what he settled on was a Hornady soft point that had a jacket design which would still feed well in the carbines. In his carbines they fed reliably and were very effective on Jack Rabbits and coyotes. Love that little weapon.
Very interesting, Ian. Thank you!
God bless all here. 😊😊😊
These guns were adopted in 2000 by brazilian state of Pará. Taurus hired a bunch of shooters to demonstrate how the 40 S&W was a much wiser and better option (Taurus had a 40 SMG at that moment). Months later Taurus released its 30 caliber FAMAE carbine and the 30 carbine became the best police round ever!
Monopol...
I would have assumed it was due to .30 carbine being not as easy to procure in S. American compared to .40. But you can't blame the sales guys at Taurus for trying.
Police in Rio used a few.
Thank you Ian for everything you do for the firearm enthusiast community!
Silly Ian, that's where you keep the emergency cigarette. 12:34
i was thinking maybe it's for a cleaning rod? but i could be totally wrong
@@seangibreath5381 I was wondering if it could hold a chemlight. That way in the dark you could see to clear jams, but when the bolt was closed it wouldn't be seen.
@@nickcody7257 that’s actually a genius idea
Nicely done Ian, the MAGAL may have never been that popular due to its reliability issues but frankly it's pretty nice and unique to look at and i'm happy that Royal Armouries Museum gave you access to one of those scarce SMGs.
Big .30 carbine fan, thanks for sharing this cool weapon!
Yes! There’s finally a video about this gun! I love researching obscure guns in small calibers, like in .30 carbine. I’m so happy this exists! Thanks, Ian! ❤️
Small! In what way: Slow or Fast?
@@dallesamllhals9161 idk, just compared to larger guns Ian has reviewed on his channel. I have respect for the .30 carbine, but it ain’t all that either when compared to what we see in the concept of more modern rifle carbines.
Now this is a gun that I wouldn't even have dreamt of existing if it wasn't for Ian's nerd-impetus to explore almost every possible kind of ammo-platform matchup. The very idea of a .30 carbine round in a Galil derivative is only apparent to someone who knows that the Israelis use it extensively in their service and wouldn't have occured to anyone who is more familiar with the dominant 9 mm or Tokarev derivatives in most police use. Thank you Ian for letting us all appreciate a weapon-ammo matchup that is both exotic and yet also fitting once you consider its utility!!!!
I used to have a Ruger single action revolver in 30 cal carbine. The only problem was that it was sometimes difficult to eject the empty cases from the cylinder because they tended to expand when fired, but didn't always relax from the chamber walls when I tried to reload.
Run a cooler round maybe ?
@@clothar23Cooler as in power or cooler in terms of being cool? Because as for power, all 30 Carbine, excluding Buffalo Bore (and maybe some weird company that lasted 2 months, then died), is the same. If you're talking about coolness factor, nothing is cooler than 30. Carbine.
@@ShogunMongol Nah more like hand loading to a slightly less powerful load. Since as you say commercial rounds are more or less loaded the same.
My only other idea would maybe to have the cylinder polished and lined with a new coating.
I owned one of those. It was scary and accurate. The muzzle blast was horrible! Easily one of the loudest handguns I ever fired. I didn't have the sticky chamber problem in mine.
@@jefferyfite7122 try one of the 30-30 single shot pistols…
It looks like the designer had a nervous breakdown, un-bullpupped a Tavor and chambered it in .30 carbine
It looks more like a galil with a plastic lower because that's what it is. It clearly has Kalashnikov roots
It looks like a galil with a 10/22 mag not even close to a tavor
Yea lmao 😂😂
I still think that for short range situations where body armor isn't expected, .30 carbine is the best PDW round ever made. It's basically a .357 in a long gun. This MAGAL is a good idea and other developers should work on something similar.
Even if it was just good or even okay, they had it readily available.
Finally learned how the "bolt, hold-open"-catch functions.
Same!
It strikes me this weapon would make an excellent home defense weapon. 😎👍
Most folding stock short-barreled rifles and short barrel shotguns would.
That would be a neat thing to have. Heck, I wouldn't mind an AR in .30 Carbine. I'm sure someone, somewhere has one, though I haven't seen it.
Olympic Arms made a run. They're marked PCR-30.
@@jefferyfite7122were they gas operated or simple blowback?
@@flightlesschicken7769 Unfortunately, I don't know.
@@jefferyfite7122 understandable
Wow, I actually never knew about these. This is cool to hear about.
Was a volunteer police officer since 1999 and I never saw these, is indeed rare. We used the standard caliber 5.56 30 round magazines
These were again short lived as the police soon moved to M4 5.56 military standard rifles that are being used presently.
I've been waiting for this one, for a long, long time.
my experience with a 5.56 galil is that when a casing gets stuck in the inside, where this extra metal tub was added, this causes a really hard to clear malf, you get besides that jammed casing one or more rounds pop out of the magazine. so I imagine that with a shorter cartridge it would happen more often
Just as a note on the reduced mag capacity, I typically only put 25 rds in my 30 rd mags. It's been my experience that I have significantly fewer reliabilty issued when I don't load the mags to full capacity. YMMV.
Finally, the Pontiac Aztec of firearms
I choose to believe that someone knew what the little pipe thing was welded in the receiver, but they couldn’t comment for the first couple of hours so we’ll never know. Thanks RUclips.
YeahI knew it, but forgot it again by the time the comments were turned back on
According to a guy on reddit who made his own replica of Magal this is indeed for better case extraction. Otherwise cases have a tendency to get stuck there
Thank you Ian! I have been wanting for this one from you for awhile! MAGAL is very interesting and I wish IWI would think about about a retro for the US market!
Absolutely. IWI could smooth out the issues and get this combo to market. Another great gun for the bucket list.
SO FREAKING AAWESOME!!!
Factory had a mohel working the lathe for that gas piston.
This rifle needs to be sold in the U.S. by IWI .
At a fair price not some $ 2500 wonder that bc if the price no one would buy or something similar in 10mm
Galil ACE: "Let's just put a plastic shell around a regular Galil and pretend that's an upgrade."
I hate their tendency to just wrap a shitload of plastic around the AK receiver.
Half the gun receiver is lighter and the Galil is like two pounds heavier than it needs to be.
@@Seth9809 More weight = less recoil. If a Galil is too heavy, try carrying an FAL. Or an M-240. Do some pushups.
@@Swindle1984OR I'll carry the lighter gun and 100-500 extra rounds of ammunition. I've never met a combat vet who said "gee I sure wish I had less ammunition in that last fight" Being a meathead doesn't make you cool.
@@A_potato9772 The ACE is 2.1lb lighter. 1lb of 5.56, without clips or magazines, is 37 rounds. You're not carrying 500 rounds of ammo with the weight savings of an ACE. You're also not carrying 500 rounds unless you're a SAW gunner.
Are you sure the aperture is 500 metres, not 50 metres? I mean, a 50 metre precision aperture in .30 carbine would make a lot more sense than a 500 meter one. Also the change in height of the center of the aperture doesnt seem enough for 500m zero vs 50-150m "battle sight"
Yes, i think that it's a 50 meter too. It makes way more sense.
FW doing what they do best, really showing some rare and odd weapons. Keep it coming Ian😎👍
It looks like a movie prop and I love it! :D
It amazes me how many different firearms are chambered in .30 M1 Carbine. The originals, the Auto Mag III, the Ruger Blackhawk and now this. When I was just getting into my fire arms interests one of the first ideas I had for a wildcat was just a .30 M1 Carbine case fireformed with a shoulder, and no other changes. Now we have the .300 Blackout!!!
The San Cristobal Carbine as well. ruclips.net/video/PtWEBcIP09E/видео.html
Kind of makes sense to make the adjustments in the gas system, instead of redesigning the bolt group.
A cool little weapon. Thanks for bringing this to us.
Given issues with 9mm AK variants. I'd confidently say that top cover tube bit is to aid in ejection
Like the "MAC bracket" on the PSA AKV-9.
One of the export customers was the Pará State Military Police in Brazil that bought almost 600 of them in late 2000/early 2001. Some of them are still in service and many have also been diverted and get seized in police operations across the country.
These last couple videos were the start of a series?!?! Yes, thank you Ian.
.30 carbine is not a pistol or submachinegun bullet. At 1,300 joules it's only marginally less potent than 5.56 (~1,700 joules) and since it's a bigger, slower round, it retains its energy better over longer distances. 9mm packs at most 700 joules of kinetic energy which makes it a much more preferable choice for minimizing collateral damage and unwanted overpenetration, as well as training.
Put it differently, for police work, 9mm is the go-to close range sane kinetic energy round, whereas 5.56 that is already abundunant in the military can do everything else (counter-terrorism and other high profile barricaded suspect situations).
The only reason the Israeli police used .30 carbine to begin with is that M1 and M2 Carbines were a dime a dozen after World War 2 and it needed something cheap (or even free - if I recall correctly, the M1 Carbines were gifted by Jewish Americans donors). There was a lot of ammo lying around, so they toyed with the idea.
If you want to go even deeper in the rabbit hole, look into the HEZI rifle which is simply a modernization of the M1 Carbine.
Also, another factoid, "magal" in Hebrew means scythe, but it also sort of abbreviates "Police Galil" in Hebrew ("Galil mishtara").
Question: What would be the feasibility of importing these for sale in the US?
Since they were never full auto, seems like the only issue is the barrel length, which could be solved with 7 inch long pinned on muzzle device, and or new barrels.
I'm sure they'd sell for a pretty penny in the US.
looks like they still have the auto sear/safety sear in them sadly.
the Make America Great Again Lol
But what would you do about 922r? Wouldn't that need a lot more than a muzzle device and/or barrel?
A civilian version of this might sell well in the USA
No comments on a vid that's over 5 hours old? I suspect yt dickery...
Pretty cool carbine. I think the 30 carbine is a great cqb round... sad to see it fall by the wayside
Yes, probably related to the yt trickery with unsubscribing
@@johnpalmer5131I've lost like a dozen subscriptions to channels I watch regularly lately.
Apparently YT auto disabled the comment section before Ian reenabled it
@@ayyyyph2797 I've seen that a few times now. The recent-ish Canadian M1911 video had comments disabled when it went up, for no apparent reason (later enabled).
With YT it could any number of bullshit reasons: MAGA(L) in the title, the Israeli flag in the thumbnail, the video being about a firearm, Ian not combing his hair enough, goofy ass auto-censoring and captioning bugs. God only knows with how YT operates.
magal sounds like a brand that could sell well today when marketed correctly
Super cool. Thanks.
My theory on that tube is that it was a tracking device holder. If you were going to send these into riot situations you would have to anticipate that they might be taken or lost. Having a secret spot where a locator could be slipped in could be useful. It’s on the top cover because you would want it to be quickly accessible to anyone who knew what they were looking for. If you buried it in the stock or something it couldn’t be removed for everyday use and you wouldn’t want your police tracked on regular duty. That would also explain why it’s not documented. It might have never been used either, just an option the factory included.
Either that or they felt every 30 carbine should have at least one good spot for an oil bottle.
That spring loaded dust cap is weird though, who would want a flashlight to be under spring tension?
You are correct about the ejection dynamics and the placement of that tube. How do I know this?
I heard it from a friend who, heard it from a friend who, heard from somebody you've been messing around... with awesome forgotten weapons! Cheers Ian!!
Brazil's Pará state military police still uses them they got something like 400 units with meprolight sights back in 2001, Taurus and Famae made a .30 carbine version of the Famae SAF/Taurus CT too, but that one had several issues that even lead Taurus to be blacklisted from supplying guns to the São Paulo state military police for 2 years back in 2019.
I'm a total gun newbie but this video is so cool!
Pity they decided to use the 30-round M2 mags; those were always problematic. I'd be curious to see if switching to good quality 15-round mags would have any impact on reliability.
Look better built then American ones
For some reason this reminds me of the rifles from F.E.A.R, cool looking any how. I kinda just like different looking guns, this fits the bill.
My cousin has an M-1 carbine. Ww2 era. His other grandpa somehow ended up with one after the war. Poker game or something. He was Navy. Anyway, that thing shot like a Cadillac! Very comfortable to shoot. But much past 100 yards was pretty much the same as indirect fire 🤣
Jerry Miculek did a video on AR malfunctions, and the stuck shell above and behind the BCG is one of those.
I have an ex-police issue m1 carbine. This is a cool vid.
I first heard of this gun in a mod for Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six (Rogue Spear, I think specifically). My mod folder was larger than the entire game file, LOL.
I was fascinated with the idea and wondered why they didn't catch on as .30 Carbine seemed a good home defense/law enforcement cartridge. Ah, but yeah, same troublesome magazines heavily modified. Plus during that time we were in the midst of our thankfully temporary AWB. In any case, thanks for info on a gun a much younger me was fascinated with.
I was thinking the exact same thing as Ian as soon as he showed the tube in the cover.
Ruger did a short run of Blackhawks in .30 cal. carbine. I've seen one and shot it- it was a monster! If you can find one, could you do a critique on it? Liked the piece on the MAGAL, was a bit surprised at the caliber choice, but your research as usual made some sense of it. Thanks!
I think that tube in the top cover has to do with a case deflector to prevent cases from popping up in there. Maybe if the ejector was further forward it wouldn't have been an issue? Assuming that was the issue...
Dope little gun!
Why comments now turned on after 5 hours?
With the present state of things I can’t blame Ian for not wanting to curate the clusterfuck that will inevitably ensue on this video
Take a guess. Give people a couple of hours to cool their tempers. I know he records these in advanced and months ahead of release sometimes, but commentary don't always know that and might think he's trying to make a statement or something stupid.
Ian has previously said on Patreon that sometimes comments are occasionally turned off at random rather than by his doing. It happened a few times recently and when questioned he reactivated them.
Israel block comments on all videos about Israel and genocide topics.
RUclips just arbitrarily turned them off when the video posted, and I just now got back to an internet connection, saw it, and turned them back on.
That big bar keeps one from hitting the mag release
You'd have thought a few hand calcs would have indicated mass needs to come out of the bolt carrier
i've always liked the idea of a .30 carbine PDW considering it's energy transfer over the "high velocity penetrator" rounds
this though...? it had a few ok parts but the edges were *rough*
The Tube in top cover coincides with the large amount of lightening the carrier took on the left side. It's odd to see 2 carriers like the one you shown as they both look like Magal carriers to me. Out of all the early horizontal MAR carriers I've seen the only ones with lightening cuts like the 2 you've shown are for Magal. I would reason to believe you have 2 Magal carriers in video. Not to say IMI didn't put these in MAR but it suspect to me. The small tube takes the empty space up amd like you said will help prevent shells from entry in that area . Try another true early MAR carrier with that top cover and you will see what I'm talking about. Need pics let me know 😃
To add my voice to the proponents of 30 carbine, it's a very handy round for a lot of non front line confrontations. I would have a dozen WWII specification carbines made by current makers to modern standards and designed magazines. Too bad all the attempts at bringing it back have been by less than quality manufacturers.
The sticky chamber problem might have been caused by using the cartridge cases to much. I reloaded them to save money.
To anyone wondering what the Hebrew on the side says at 5:40.... It just says Magal.
Really peculiar. Nice video, thanks. My initial thought on the mystery tube was indeed "to bounce extracting rounds?". Curious if you ever find out a proper answer!
Quite a few people in the comments confirmed it
Interesting choice of caliber
Could tube in the top cover be an ejection block used to guide the spent casing out of the ejection port? Guess we just have to take them both to the range and see what happens. 😁
That is a very intelligent guess regarding the spot welded tube on the top cover.
I think I used to draw this gun in the spaces between my notes back in middle school.
My stick-figure army was well armed with the ugliest fricking gun in the world
Is there a video of Israeli M1 Carbine bull-pup conversion?
The gun makes sense!
Wow, that sure was... an idea somebody had.
Given the shape of the tube inside the top cover, I would guess there's something missing from the gun.
Wonder if we will see the excel arms X-30R or the Taurus CT-30 soon!!!!
I hope they have better quality magazines than the ones I've had. Like the HiPoint carbines, mine were the weak link in an otherwise reliable weapon.
That lil magazine on that chunky micro galil i just feel it wrong i know why is made that way the should made a mini micro galil for maching all the parts
Ian, et al, the hebrew on the top right of the Magal's markings don't spell "carbine." They spell "Magal". Right to left, that's Mem-Gimel-Lamed, M-G-L. (Hebrew often drops vowels which is why you don't have a couple alephs in there).
The bolt hold open, 8:07 “magazine’s not full…” should be magazine’s not Empty, hold open tab goes down.
.30 carb vs 9mm overpen test when
the paddle release on this particular weapon seems kinda off, i think that ar style release or any button release would work better imo
Legacy of basically being a Jewish AK-74SU.
The opening and insides REALLY look like an AK...
Anyways, very unusual and interesting gun, thanks!
I wonder how many m1 carbines are still being carried everyday all over the world.
Neat rifle.
When Israel built/ developed their .30 carbine bullpup, did they use the Magal receiver or the m1 carbine?
Really ingenious how they utilized the "extra" length in the magazine area to house the last-round bolt hold-open, and similarly shortened the necessary rearward stroke of the bolt with a thicker buffer. Definitely reduced the re-tooling to a minimum. Efficient design and interesting specimen.
in Vietnam we have a similar weapon like this call STV rifle
Strange looking beast
Comments were initially disabled when I first viewed this.
youtube randomly turns them off without warning or notification
That's YT with all gun content, all the time. It's very weird.
I didn’t know about the MAGAL so when I saw the video I got really excited thinking the Israelis had adopted it and would be ramping up .30 carbine production.
Oh cheap surplus ammo for my M1, why have you forsaken me?
No bottle opener??
🙁
Suspicious...
This looks like a sci-fi movie prop and all they had to work with was an AK
Super cool design, but they should have made their own mags!
Can't help noticing that Ian pronounces "Galil" the French way. Israelis put the accent on the second syllable. By all means, correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, why do police have to be limited to semi-auto? Shouldn't they at least have a 2- or 3-round burst-fire option? The bad guys certainly don't impose those sorts of "rules" on themselves. If these were select-fire, they might have sold better internationally.
Americans tend to pronounce it the way Ian does. GAH-leel, EYE-ran etc.
@@skepticalbadger I only point out the French pronunciation because Ian's a frankaboo (aka "ouiaboo"). Not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm a slavaboo, muhself.
Police never needs that level of firepower for what they do and it's rare for police to be properly trained to handle automatic firearms, as in burst of full auto firing ones.
It makes the firearm easier to use, removes possibility of a mistake and makes it "safer" due to limiting possible user negligence
@@Schrodingers_kid That might have been true in the past, but take a gander at the world as it is in the reality of the here and now.
@@judsongaiden9878 I can see that, yeah, but I wouldn't rely on police much, honestly
When the war was where I am right now, the police vanished. With all of their gear, military and police training. So I still think it's pointless
Great video but I question if the Israeli police ever used the M1 carbine. I have never seen their use. Certainly up to the 1980s local community security neighbourhood watch patrol made use of very antiquated M1 carbines or they are used for tour groups but never by the police from my recollection. It’s more probable M16a2s are used. They said a great video.
About a decade ago, I still saw some M1 carbines around with private and local security entities. Had a guy checking our bags outside a supermarket in Tiberias with an M1. In J-town, most of the police officers were equipped with M4's, same as the military patrols.
@@DiggingForFacts exactly. I have not seen M1 carbines used for years. Military police were using Enfield revolvers in the 1980s! But agree police typically have better access to equipment and now it’s superlative. Often comparable or better than some army units.
Wouldn't the bolt face be bigger for .30 carbine rather than .223? Not smaller? Or am i dumb
.376 to .356 base diameter (223 and 30 Carbine respectively), remember the 223 has a reasonable bottleneck on it...
@@trooperdgb9722 I am dumb lmao
@@jacobnewman3797 Not at all! Possibly the most confusing thing in the gun world is cartridge nomenclature! I mean shit. 22 Hornet, 219 Zipper, 220 Swift, 221 Remington Fireball, 222 Rem, 223 Rem, 224 Weatherby and 225 Winchester? ALL use 224 projectiles.. Enough to drive you mad. 38 Special? 357 projectile. 44 Magnum? .429 projectile. LOL My 1895 Steyr is the worst of the lot... it's called "8 x 56R" but does it use a .323 projectile like every other "8mm"? NO.. of course not... it uses .329!
This looks like something an underpaid artist would submit for a sci-fi RPG source book.
I love it when Ian does videos on guns from fictional countries
The best comment😂