I think the TOS style Oberth's 'torpedo tubes' might be probe launchers, it is a science vessel after all. Also perhaps the strut's aren't feeding the nacelles, maybe the warp engine is in the saucer and the struts are merely for turbolifts and EPS conduits etc?
How practical would it be if the secondary hull could enable the Oberth to float on oceans for maritime research? Perhaps the hull and pylons could be submerged, with the primary hull above the water? I think it'd be pretty awesome!
The Oberth is a great multi-role craft, like a Huey helicopter. The pod slung below the saucer section could be swapped out for different variants, GunShip, Troop Landing Craft, Medical Evac, Search and Rescue, Fighter Carrier, Supply Tender, Tug Ship or Survey/Recon. Nice discussion guys. Another observation is that if you look at the overhead view, its very much the grandfather of the Defiant!
Awesome Episode guys. I had to tether from my phone so I could watch it on my laptop. I am on vacation and the hotel wifi is like dialup. I was afraid I wasn't going to be able to catch it until I got back home. I had no idea this ship even existed, definitely a cool design. Thank you and keep 'em coming.
Machine shops? What? No, in deep space, there's a supply depot on every corner. Starship engineers never have to resort to making their own repair parts!
When I see "shops" on a engineering deck blueprint, I tend to think MACHINE shops, not "shut down all shops in the mall". You know, mills, presses, pipe benders, metalworking... Though thinking of Spaceballs, the scene where Reverend Jim kills his weapons officer for that lucky shot, that HAD to be the inspiration for "I said across her nose, not up it!"
Military surplus. When the vessel passes a certain age, it is relegated to a junk yard if they decide not to refit it. Those ships that are old, and no longer classified and still in good/decent condition would most likely be available for other commercial entities within the Federation to purchase for commercial use. This would be a good reason why you would see older federation designs in civilian roles.
Just had a thought. Even tho the oberth is purely a science vessel (tho they were at wolf 359 sector 001 battle for ds9, possibly as countermeasures) would it of been hard to convert the lower section to basically be a large multi tubed torpedo launcher? Get a few of these converted ships in packs they could bring a lot of fire power to the front lines
Personally, I've always seen the secondary hull as an exchangeable, mission specific, sensor pod with no crew facilities except maintenance passageways accessible via Jeffries tubes or transporter. The upper hull is basically a tug and interface unit for a massive array of sensors.
I can't believe anybody sees it any other way. It just seems so obvious but you're the first person I've seen mention it. That pod can be covered in sensors, filled with probes or torpedoes, kitted out for passengers, whatever the mission needs. And it's the perfect test bed for potentially dangerous new technologies because it could dump the pod those systems are in if anything goes wrong. And could it be more obvious that the top section is a ship in it's own right? The flat plate behind the saucer is a giveaway right? Madness.
The Oberth has always been my favorite Starfleet vessel. There's a serene feeling to her. She's like a big canoe that someone slapped a upper stardrive section to it.
Writing this while watching so apologies if you cover or bin these ideas. I wonder if the warp core is meant to be a low-maintenance version, not running hard like a front line vessel's such as the constitution. In that case, perhaps the saucer is intended to separate as a complete escape feature in the event of a containment failure, in which case not having a massive pylon to the secondary hull is an advantage. It's not like this ship would be deployed in a danger area after all. Under-way maintenance could be handled by beaming in or out or using a shuttle pod, and the saucer could have backup power for an emergency evacuation with the nacelles attached, similar to the NX-01 refit with the disposable secondary hull.
using 'tractor' tech shuttles could be sucked in or spat out of those side bays, could the saucer rotate? bit off topic but round things can rotate if made to, could make if interesting ship
on the DS9 Pilot Emissary, when Dax and Bashir arrive on the Cochrane, it docks at the lower pylon because of the lower hull unlike other small vessels such as the Defiant or Miranda class, which can dock at the docking ring. and if you consider that Oberth had registry in the NCC-600's range, it predated the constitution, and lasted in service at least up to the battle of sector 001 in First Contact.
Well, the newer Oberth class chips in TNG and DS9 had higher numbers. I guess they just implemented the design between the Daedalus and the Constitution class (it has the round disc design like it's just the upper quarter of a Daedalus Class ship, where they attached the warp drive part and the Pylon onto it) and still run with it, because it's cheap to build and a good vessel for one purpose missions. Why building a Conni or Miranda to investigate something that's inside federation space and you only need some scientists for planet surveillance, the Connies and Mirandas are much more capable for multi-purpose missions like a five year mission. An Oberth would be stationated at a nearby space station and when you need a ship for a scientific mission or to bring Sisko to DS9 you just board the ship and fly to your mission point and then back to station. In reality the USA also only has some big aircraft carriers and for shorter missions they use stationated helis or jets from Airbases around the world.
+ Jekub Fimbulwing I believe Starfleet actually used one of these in one of their battles against the Borg, which was extremely cruel to whomever was manning it. I mean, how would you feel if you were an officer assigned to fight the Borg in one of these? I'd rig a hologram to take my place.
Considering how desperate they were at Wolf 359 it's not too surprising that they hauled in an Oberth or 2 to make up the numbers. On the other hand knowing my ship was only there as an extra layer of metal between the Borg and earth wouldn't have been the greatest experience of my life.Just the last one...
There were the 120m Oberth class and two subsequent subclasses: a 148m Gagarin class with FH-1 phasers, and the Sagan class coming in at a respectable 180m. I can't remember the exact specs, but phasers were soon upgraded from phaser type IV (basically, a handheld phase rifle used for cutting chunks off of asteroids) to phaser type VI (seen on some combat-ready shuttles), and finally 3 proper HF-9 phaser banks on the Sagan subclass. The probe launcher could fire mini-photon torpedos, but some Jester subclass ships replaced the science "canoe" with a dedicated torpedo launcher. Other Oberth class vessels replace the "canoe" with fuel tanks, extra nacels, or nothing at all. Some documentation suggests that, even after falling out of use by Starfleet after ST:TNG, the mass-produced, low cost ship was still in widespread use thoughout the Alpha Quadrant as a personal yacht or for private use. Cruising speeds are gradually upped from Warp 3 to 4, later Warp 5, and finally Warp 8 by the 2370's. Maximum speed is gradually upgraded from Warp 5.8 to 9, then 9.4, and finally 9.6. I assume that the shields were also upgraded to make the ship more survivable, but I can't find those facts anywhere. Also, the stats listed at 16:46 I cannot find corroborated anywhere else. The earliest Oberth class vessels were already in operation in the 2250's, according to "Starfleet Academy" the game (not 2275).
13:18 maybe the shuttles are on a carousel-style loadout, where the fore of the primary hull is circular, so maybe the shuttles can enter via one door, land on a rotational pad that rotates the shuttle as it revolves inside the hull, so it can have them at the ready to launch, similar in style to a magazine, in a sense.
that Cage berth looks almost like a cartoon version. Like you would see it packaged with a bobble head Spock or something. As far as the deflector, it could have a Dish but but what e're seeing is a Radome covering it. On aircraft of today most of them have a dish that moves around in a sweeping motion and then a radome or cowling to protect it and aid in aerodynamics. Since the frequencies the dish is working with are so high it has no issue penetrating the cowling/radome Here you can see what I'm referring to topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2012-05/thumbs/1337411656_arbalet.jpg and here media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/shrinknp_800_800/p/5/005/09c/0e1/1d97eee.jpg Its my opinion that the Oberth implements such a design in its deflectors. Also being a science vessel its radome structure may aid in its scan resolution and sweeping range making for a much broader scanning field, rather then just a open dish. Let me know what you think.
I have several possible explanations why there does not seem to be a direct manned access port from the primary hull to the secondary hull. Some of the explanations may be more plausible than others. As the secondary hull, is based on storage of probes and scientific equipment which does not need to be manned most of the time. It was a purpose built vessel, which was ergonomic. If you needed to access the secondary hull in the context of repairing you can either use jefferies tubes, workbees from a shuttle bay, or transport down to the secondary hull. Or you can put outside engineering crew in space suits. The Oberth class is a great ship, but it does make me scratching my head when thinking of to travel to the bottom half of the ship.
Hey Captain and Commander! Found your channel over the weekend and have spent the last few hours watching as many of your videos as I could. Been really enjoying the topics and back and forth between you two. I'm a Trek ship nut myself so I'm glad to know I'm not the only one whom thinks about these things... Was thinking about the Grissom which you two just did an episode on. You all were talking about how to get from the primary to the secondary hull what with the curves and such in the connecting struts. Well you know someone is going to object to using the transporter (like a Bones McCoy type or a Trill), also what if there's a malfunction or they become damaged? I've always thought of them as if the turbolift car entered a cradle shaped to the curves if the strut. The turbolift car rest within the cradle on a table that is attach to the cradle via a pin assembly that is allowed to rotate and keep the turbolift level. Very much like how a car on a ferris wheel is held by a pin that allows the car to rotate relative to the large wheel so it stays level and doesn't dump the occupants. The cradle acts like an adaptor if nothing else allowing the turbolift car to be carried through the curves. I'd be interested to hear what you guys have to say... I've also seen a gunboat version with it sporting a Reliant style torpedo pod rather than its regular pod... KB Dallas, TX
Just ordered that model he was holding. I'm thinking some kind of escalator system to get to the secondary hull instead of a full blown turbo lift. In the Jackill blue prints he has it as a turbo lift though. Each ship could have different designs too.
The Pegasus ofc was a Test bead for a phase cloak in case you were wondering Captian Foley while the Chonchrane and most others like SS Bico were more of civillian ships.
I am going with the launcher is for probes. It would make sense that Starfleet has different science vessel configurations for different tasks. The one at 10:00 could be for nebula or gaseous planet exploration while the Grissom was for solid planet surveys.
Note: - Warp engines produce high levels of Infrared energy as shown in Voyager. -Stuart, when you get your microphone to close to a speaker you get the echo feedback -While fans attribute the big doors on the Oberth as shuttle bay doors they are more likely just cargo and Work-er bee because the ship is really too small for anything to requires two levels and docking shuttle on one deck would be like parking a Dually in a Garage.
saquist I assumed they were some kind of sensor array and the front one could be the nav deflector, the Constellation class has a similar set of grey squares on the edge of it's saucer too.
Mork_of_Ork2001 Those are definitely doors the squares on Constitution are lit. I don't think the designer putt that much thought into Oberth, honestly. We try to make sense out of it ultimately it's just an artistic expression of the designer.
I think the possible multitude of launcher tubes makes sense for a scout and somewhat for a science vessel to launch the whole might of the sensor probe fleet :) The much misunderstood shops are probably work shops where probes and shuttle parts can be modified or manufactured to meet the requirements of whatever environment is to be penetrated. And if work runs late the shop probably has snickers available too :D
I did not see any room for a turbo lift in the Oberth. After watching the episode I see that the bottom section was pretty much automated so transporters would do the job! In other versions of the design that were shown(Scout Ship), there was a central spar attaching the upper and lower sections with a torpedo launcher midway up it. A turbo lift could easily be installed inside that.... The design always makes me think of a sail boat/schooner or a pleasure craft. It would serve very well a courier ship, dignitary transport or private business transport/light freighter!
I see the sensor thing you go on about more like the radome on an aircraft, the sensors are behind it and the material its made of doesn't block it...could even amplify the sensors
One possibility is that there are separate crews in the saucer and engineering section, or that there are turbolifts in the nacelle pylons. As a science vessel, perhaps the actual command staff & crew live and work in one section, while the science staff occupies the other.
maybe you can ask the original designer of the model, but if I am not mistaken that Large Center peice was supposed to be a Deployable orbital Research Pod/Center They drop it off and it orbits a planet as a small station with labs.
I got the impression that supplies wernt an issue as they stayed on station conducting research so would receive periodic visits from supply ships. The secondary hull was entirely unmanned and separated from the crew areas which would actually be useful if the ship was carrying hazardous bio/chemical cargoes or experiments, It was essentially just storage and automated equipment with a transporter room for access.
Regarding the port, starboard shuttle bays; I'd say the shuttle pilot would rotate (platform or thruster) it to point forward, thrust sideways (until clear) then either thrust up, down or forward. ;-)
The Oberth class is what I would call a stage 3 exploration vessel. Stage one is the scout ship, the stage 2 are the ships like the Enterprise with a wide range science labs and a large number of personal. The Oberth is an exploration ship preconfigured before deployment to a specific mission. Threats have been evaluated by stage 2 vessels and the Oberth is deployed for a long term exploration. The area its deployed to is determined to be safe. If not a destroyer will deployed to patrol the area and render aid if necessary. In the SFS the Genesis planet was deep inside the Federation boundaries and the threat level was very low.
They had Food Synthesizers in TOS. They're suppose to be a little different than the Replicator and are an alternative to the food provided by the vessels Chef. Anyway, large food stores would be easily housed for the Oberth class vessel since it has a smaller crew than other Starfleet ships. So it could do long range extended survey and scientific missions quite easily.
Maybe shops is another word for "crew stores" Let's say they need a new uniform or something like that. They would have no replicators so they would have to get it somewhere. Or it could be meaning food stores. Like a mess hall.
phoenix1985 More like machine shops as found on wet navy ships. You can replicate parts but to make something that's not in the pattern library you need to fabricate it.
In many cases like a designer dress for a night out that would be the way to go, but for a new Cajun Vulcan fusion style dish you"d require some experimentation before you fed the pattern into the system. We do know that certain materials cannot be replicated for some reason so there is that also. And lets not forget that replicators make synthahol, and not actual beer or whiskey...they can't replicate the living yeast. They did replicate all the parts for the Delta Flyer in the way you suggest though.
An Oberth class made an appearance at the end of Generations. It flies in front of a Nebula class at one point where you get a good perspective as to how small the ship really is!
Shops as in machine-shops, for manufacturing new elements for experimental apparatus and replacing components of the ship itself. Think a 6-axis milling machine, presses, industrial chem, carbon kilms, etc.
if i recall correctly the secondary hull was used as more of a science pod n storage area ing the tos era and engineering was inthe upper hull crew size of around 50 however the tng refit was 50% large better arm n had addition uses as well as a my versatile secondary hull with a new warp core located there
Hi, Stuart Foley. my name is Mark. Question, do you consider Jakill's star trek books cannon. he has all the tos, movies, net gen , vgr, ds9 ships and their variants .
I've always liked t his ship and i'm not usually a fan of the non saucer Starfleet ships (ie Defiant). I always thought the secondary hull was actually just a third warp pod as I never saw any lights or windows to suggest people lived in it and it had the intermix coolers in the second half. So, the whole "How do they get to the secondary hull?" was never an issue for me. I do member that Jackhill's Starship books had various versions of the Oberth from tug, to torpedo boat to medical ship. Interesting little work horse.
I've always assumed the size of the warp nacelles was dictated by the size of the warp field you wanted to create. The Phoenix had very small nacelles as do TOS shuttles and we see that the larger the ship, the larger the warp bubble needs to be and the nacelle size seems to reflect that.
Regarding the relative size of the Klingon Bird of Prey to the Oberth class, it can be noted that there were actually at least two or three classes of Bird of Preys in the Klingon Fleet, the B'Rel, the K'Vort and the D12. The B'Rel is a small ship, which is probably the one shown in the comparison at time stamp 19:35. The K'Vort class, which was seen in "Yesterday's Enterprise", is the larger vessel, but this topic is probably cover this in The Bird of Prey Trekyards episodes.
In STAR TREK THE NEXT GENERATION BIRTH OF THE FEDERATION PC computer game, I find the upgraded version of the Oberth class ship to be very useful, for the cost of maintaining it, it can be more useful to have a large number of these ships than other small ships like the Miranda class. Mostly due to how efficient the Oberth is.
Although they didn't have replicators back in the TOS era, they had "Synthesizers," presumably in their "Shops." I'm sure the huge secondary hull stored enough bulk material and reclamation equipment for such a small crew.
I love the Oberth and am really glad we just got a tier 6 one in Star Trek Online. It's not a very practical starship design IMHO but I love it all the same! In my head canon its a submarine for scientific research of ocean worlds, or large swathes of alien ocean anyway, with a starship section on top which detaches to transport it from world to world. There are issues with this theory but it looks right to me somehow! There are two crews the 'star ship' crew and the 'sub' crew' and while the sub is in use they relay information to the orbiting star-drive section! when it's time to re-attach, the star drive section tractors the sub back into position and off they go!
as far as how to get down to the lower hull...what ID instead of wasting the space by fitting a turbo lift tube in either the left or right strut... what about some sort of external transport pod that rides along rails in the inside part of the struts and enter and exit airlocks built into the two hulls... that would be alot more practical than J tubes, transporters, or work bees. although ideally I would retro fit a TOS style neck between the two hulls... but to make it distinctive I would reverse the slope and have it slope forward from the rear of the upper hull as it descends to the lower..
The way this design could work is if what u r calling the scondary hull is in fact a giant sensor pod assembly that the crew rarely visits. You would want some seperation from the pod sensors and the crew, so they have minimal exposure to any exotic radiation emitted and don’t subsequently die from cancer.
I always assumed the living quarters and all the vessels basic equipment was in the upper hull. The bottom section looks to be a "pod". This would mean that if you need a ship of limited capability (speed - defense - offense) you have a ready made design that can accept different mission pods (with refit).
I would say that on the Movie version of the Oberth the 2nd hull was automated and unmanned so there would not need to be a normal way for personal to get to it. The ship would not have a large Engineering div if any because like a Shuttle the Warp system is small. This would be like a modern Cruiser which needs an Engineering Div due to the size of the ship/eng and a tug which just needs someone to check the oil.
The science winnebago camper with a pickup bed to hold sensor pallets. I understand these were mainly civilian service ships. A summer sabbatical 'expedition to Africa' type ship which required some sort of self protection. The Oberth class was produced for so long, I would expect it evolved from TOS components into TNG tech on the production line...
Oberth has always been one of my favourite designs. What's your guys take on the lack of buzzard ramscoops? I like to think it's a little larger than many people think- maybe like the side view where it's larger than the Bird Of Prey. The only starships that should be smaller than a Brel class are Runabouts... !!
I never thought of it before, but Oberth is small enough to seem very single-use just like the defiant. Oberth might just be a core, engine, beds and a sensor :P
it may not be shopping shops, but work shops or fabrication shops i also the defector design i always thought of a dolphins melon... that is the name for the organ that they use in echolocation
That was what I was going to say. Most science ships today have a workshop to do moderate repairs to their various instruments and unmanned submersible type craft. I remember reading Robert Ballard's book about finding Titanic and where it mentioned that the ship they were using was towing a sonar array/torpedo thingy and they had to fix it a few times when it broke. Kind of hard to fix your sonar torpedo without a place to fix it, or tools, or spare parts.
I always imagined the Oberth class as just a bridge an engine and sensors, I was under the impression that the “secondary hull” was an unmanned warp core pod
Are you guys going to tell about the beginning of the curse with the name USS Grissom? I mean that poor ship, always in a mess and are you going to show any footage from Star Trek Online, since it is in the game.
I always fly one with no shield in STO so that I can have the authentic "one shot wonder" U.S.S. Grissom experience.
lol
You can even outfit it with a single phaser array for even more authentic charm
I see you have chosen death.
I think the TOS style Oberth's 'torpedo tubes' might be probe launchers, it is a science vessel after all.
Also perhaps the strut's aren't feeding the nacelles, maybe the warp engine is in the saucer and the struts are merely for turbolifts and EPS conduits etc?
Mork_of_Ork2001 like the idea of probe/satellite launchers. need to study some phenomenon? one pass, boom, sensor grid
The Wheat Harvester Yeah also in TNG they launch probes from the torpedo tube on the Ent-D too.
How practical would it be if the secondary hull could enable the Oberth to float on oceans for maritime research? Perhaps the hull and pylons could be submerged, with the primary hull above the water? I think it'd be pretty awesome!
In some schematics they show it to have huge tanks inside. Perhabs to inhale space clouds to analyse them.
The secondary hall functions as a surf board.
The Oberth is a great multi-role craft, like a Huey helicopter. The pod slung below the saucer section could be swapped out for different variants, GunShip, Troop Landing Craft, Medical Evac, Search and Rescue, Fighter Carrier, Supply Tender, Tug Ship or Survey/Recon. Nice discussion guys. Another observation is that if you look at the overhead view, its very much the grandfather of the Defiant!
Awesome Episode guys. I had to tether from my phone so I could watch it on my laptop. I am on vacation and the hotel wifi is like dialup. I was afraid I wasn't going to be able to catch it until I got back home. I had no idea this ship even existed, definitely a cool design. Thank you and keep 'em coming.
Shops, could mean "Machine Shops" used by some, enjoyable episode and a design I like
it might mean machine shops?
That's what I got out of it. I don't think they meant Target and shit...
They meant that, but I actually disagree that the ship isn't big enough for a machine shop. You'd want a place to make new replacement parts.
Or just to work on something.
William Jakespeare that'd be my guess.
Machine shops? What? No, in deep space, there's a supply depot on every corner. Starship engineers never have to resort to making their own repair parts!
When I see "shops" on a engineering deck blueprint, I tend to think MACHINE shops, not "shut down all shops in the mall". You know, mills, presses, pipe benders, metalworking...
Though thinking of Spaceballs, the scene where Reverend Jim kills his weapons officer for that lucky shot, that HAD to be the inspiration for "I said across her nose, not up it!"
@mandellorian Interesting.
Military surplus. When the vessel passes a certain age, it is relegated to a junk yard if they decide not to refit it. Those ships that are old, and no longer classified and still in good/decent condition would most likely be available for other commercial entities within the Federation to purchase for commercial use. This would be a good reason why you would see older federation designs in civilian roles.
Excelsior Necells are outfitted with Transwarpcoils and because it is the first ship made for Transwarpspeeds those coils are quite large
Just had a thought. Even tho the oberth is purely a science vessel (tho they were at wolf 359 sector 001 battle for ds9, possibly as countermeasures) would it of been hard to convert the lower section to basically be a large multi tubed torpedo launcher? Get a few of these converted ships in packs they could bring a lot of fire power to the front lines
Personally, I've always seen the secondary hull as an exchangeable, mission specific, sensor pod with no crew facilities except maintenance passageways accessible via Jeffries tubes or transporter. The upper hull is basically a tug and interface unit for a massive array of sensors.
I can't believe anybody sees it any other way. It just seems so obvious but you're the first person I've seen mention it.
That pod can be covered in sensors, filled with probes or torpedoes, kitted out for passengers, whatever the mission needs. And it's the perfect test bed for potentially dangerous new technologies because it could dump the pod those systems are in if anything goes wrong.
And could it be more obvious that the top section is a ship in it's own right? The flat plate behind the saucer is a giveaway right? Madness.
I thought so too.
Man, how long is he going to be a Commander? Gonna pull a Riker? ;P
Shops could refer to 'Machine Shops'... basicaly, an engineering lab.
The Oberth has always been my favorite Starfleet vessel. There's a serene feeling to her. She's like a big canoe that someone slapped a upper stardrive section to it.
Writing this while watching so apologies if you cover or bin these ideas. I wonder if the warp core is meant to be a low-maintenance version, not running hard like a front line vessel's such as the constitution. In that case, perhaps the saucer is intended to separate as a complete escape feature in the event of a containment failure, in which case not having a massive pylon to the secondary hull is an advantage. It's not like this ship would be deployed in a danger area after all. Under-way maintenance could be handled by beaming in or out or using a shuttle pod, and the saucer could have backup power for an emergency evacuation with the nacelles attached, similar to the NX-01 refit with the disposable secondary hull.
so happy I stumbled on your show! these are great!
Science ship... Probe launchers!
The Oberth Class also appears in First Contact, during the Battle of Sector 001.
using 'tractor' tech shuttles could be sucked in or spat out of those side bays,
could the saucer rotate? bit off topic but round things can rotate if made to, could make if interesting ship
on the DS9 Pilot Emissary, when Dax and Bashir arrive on the Cochrane, it docks at the lower pylon because of the lower hull unlike other small vessels such as the Defiant or Miranda class, which can dock at the docking ring. and if you consider that Oberth had registry in the NCC-600's range, it predated the constitution, and lasted in service at least up to the battle of sector 001 in First Contact.
Well, the newer Oberth class chips in TNG and DS9 had higher numbers. I guess they just implemented the design between the Daedalus and the Constitution class (it has the round disc design like it's just the upper quarter of a Daedalus Class ship, where they attached the warp drive part and the Pylon onto it) and still run with it, because it's cheap to build and a good vessel for one purpose missions.
Why building a Conni or Miranda to investigate something that's inside federation space and you only need some scientists for planet surveillance, the Connies and Mirandas are much more capable for multi-purpose missions like a five year mission. An Oberth would be stationated at a nearby space station and when you need a ship for a scientific mission or to bring Sisko to DS9 you just board the ship and fly to your mission point and then back to station.
In reality the USA also only has some big aircraft carriers and for shorter missions they use stationated helis or jets from Airbases around the world.
I remember seeing a Oberth class corvette model kit, where the secondary hull was replaced with a reliant type torpedo pod a few years ago...
Could you guys do a video on the Olympic Class aka USS Pasteur , from all good things & the Hope Class from STO ?
Yes we saw them in Next Generation, always destroyed. but we did see them!
+ Jekub Fimbulwing
I believe Starfleet actually used one of these in one of their battles against the Borg, which was extremely cruel to whomever was manning it. I mean, how would you feel if you were an officer assigned to fight the Borg in one of these? I'd rig a hologram to take my place.
Considering how desperate they were at Wolf 359 it's not too surprising that they hauled in an Oberth or 2 to make up the numbers. On the other hand knowing my ship was only there as an extra layer of metal between the Borg and earth wouldn't have been the greatest experience of my life.Just the last one...
There were the 120m Oberth class and two subsequent subclasses: a 148m Gagarin class with FH-1 phasers, and the Sagan class coming in at a respectable 180m. I can't remember the exact specs, but phasers were soon upgraded from phaser type IV (basically, a handheld phase rifle used for cutting chunks off of asteroids) to phaser type VI (seen on some combat-ready shuttles), and finally 3 proper HF-9 phaser banks on the Sagan subclass. The probe launcher could fire mini-photon torpedos, but some Jester subclass ships replaced the science "canoe" with a dedicated torpedo launcher. Other Oberth class vessels replace the "canoe" with fuel tanks, extra nacels, or nothing at all. Some documentation suggests that, even after falling out of use by Starfleet after ST:TNG, the mass-produced, low cost ship was still in widespread use thoughout the Alpha Quadrant as a personal yacht or for private use.
Cruising speeds are gradually upped from Warp 3 to 4, later Warp 5, and finally Warp 8 by the 2370's. Maximum speed is gradually upgraded from Warp 5.8 to 9, then 9.4, and finally 9.6. I assume that the shields were also upgraded to make the ship more survivable, but I can't find those facts anywhere. Also, the stats listed at 16:46 I cannot find corroborated anywhere else. The earliest Oberth class vessels were already in operation in the 2250's, according to "Starfleet Academy" the game (not 2275).
13:18 maybe the shuttles are on a carousel-style loadout, where the fore of the primary hull is circular, so maybe the shuttles can enter via one door, land on a rotational pad that rotates the shuttle as it revolves inside the hull, so it can have them at the ready to launch, similar in style to a magazine, in a sense.
How do you get down to the secondary hull? Slide down the slides in the struts! ;-)
Stuart Young: Ladders alongside to get back up?
that Cage berth looks almost like a cartoon version. Like you would see it packaged with a bobble head Spock or something.
As far as the deflector, it could have a Dish but but what e're seeing is a Radome covering it. On aircraft of today most of them have a dish that moves around in a sweeping motion and then a radome or cowling to protect it and aid in aerodynamics. Since the frequencies the dish is working with are so high it has no issue penetrating the cowling/radome
Here you can see what I'm referring to topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2012-05/thumbs/1337411656_arbalet.jpg
and here
media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/shrinknp_800_800/p/5/005/09c/0e1/1d97eee.jpg
Its my opinion that the Oberth implements such a design in its deflectors. Also being a science vessel its radome structure may aid in its scan resolution and sweeping range making for a much broader scanning field, rather then just a open dish.
Let me know what you think.
Jess Hull The Vulcans that serve aboard it are all bobble-heads!
Would you have to beam to and from the saucer and secondary hull?
I have several possible explanations why there does not seem to be a direct manned access port from the primary hull to the secondary hull. Some of the explanations may be more plausible than others. As the secondary hull, is based on storage of probes and scientific equipment which does not need to be manned most of the time. It was a purpose built vessel, which was ergonomic. If you needed to access the secondary hull in the context of repairing you can either use jefferies tubes, workbees from a shuttle bay, or transport down to the secondary hull. Or you can put outside engineering crew in space suits. The Oberth class is a great ship, but it does make me scratching my head when thinking of to travel to the bottom half of the ship.
I consider the lower hull to be like the sensor pod on the Nebula and other ships. The pylons wouldn't have the same function as the typical ships.
One probably could crawl through a Jeffries tube. That would make sense: it's probably not something you would have to do very frequently.
Hey Captain and Commander! Found your channel over the weekend and have spent the last few hours watching as many of your videos as I could. Been really enjoying the topics and back and forth between you two. I'm a Trek ship nut myself so I'm glad to know I'm not the only one whom thinks about these things...
Was thinking about the Grissom which you two just did an episode on. You all were talking about how to get from the primary to the secondary hull what with the curves and such in the connecting struts. Well you know someone is going to object to using the transporter (like a Bones McCoy type or a Trill), also what if there's a malfunction or they become damaged?
I've always thought of them as if the turbolift car entered a cradle shaped to the curves if the strut. The turbolift car rest within the cradle on a table that is attach to the cradle via a pin assembly that is allowed to rotate and keep the turbolift level. Very much like how a car on a ferris wheel is held by a pin that allows the car to rotate relative to the large wheel so it stays level and doesn't dump the occupants. The cradle acts like an adaptor if nothing else allowing the turbolift car to be carried through the curves.
I'd be interested to hear what you guys have to say... I've also seen a gunboat version with it sporting a Reliant style torpedo pod rather than its regular pod...
KB
Dallas, TX
Just ordered that model he was holding. I'm thinking some kind of escalator system to get to the secondary hull instead of a full blown turbo lift. In the Jackill blue prints he has it as a turbo lift though. Each ship could have different designs too.
The Pegasus ofc was a Test bead for a phase cloak in case you were wondering Captian Foley while the Chonchrane and most others like SS Bico were more of civillian ships.
One of my 3 favorite ship classes from all of the ones out there.
I am going with the launcher is for probes. It would make sense that Starfleet has different science vessel configurations for different tasks. The one at 10:00 could be for nebula or gaseous planet exploration while the Grissom was for solid planet surveys.
Note:
- Warp engines produce high levels of Infrared energy as shown in Voyager.
-Stuart, when you get your microphone to close to a speaker you get the echo feedback
-While fans attribute the big doors on the Oberth as shuttle bay doors they are more likely just cargo and Work-er bee because the ship is really too small for anything to requires two levels and docking shuttle on one deck would be like parking a Dually in a Garage.
saquist I assumed they were some kind of sensor array and the front one could be the nav deflector, the Constellation class has a similar set of grey squares on the edge of it's saucer too.
Mork_of_Ork2001 Those are definitely doors the squares on Constitution are lit. I don't think the designer putt that much thought into Oberth, honestly. We try to make sense out of it ultimately it's just an artistic expression of the designer.
Constitution? I'm talking about the Constellation class like the USS Stargazer.
Mork_of_Ork2001 Sorry. That an old problem that keeps popping up. For some reason I still see Constitution when I'm reading the word Constellation.
saquist That's because you're syslexdic: (dyslexic).
I think the possible multitude of launcher tubes makes sense for a scout and somewhat for a science vessel to launch the whole might of the sensor probe fleet :)
The much misunderstood shops are probably work shops where probes and shuttle parts can be modified or manufactured to meet the requirements of whatever environment is to be penetrated. And if work runs late the shop probably has snickers available too :D
I did not see any room for a turbo lift in the Oberth. After watching the episode I see that the bottom section was pretty much automated so transporters would do the job! In other versions of the design that were shown(Scout Ship), there was a central spar attaching the upper and lower sections with a torpedo launcher midway up it. A turbo lift could easily be installed inside that....
The design always makes me think of a sail boat/schooner or a pleasure craft. It would serve very well a courier ship, dignitary transport or private business transport/light freighter!
Could be probes, not torpedoes.
+Robert Hayes no they are micro torpedo launchers lol
I see the sensor thing you go on about more like the radome on an aircraft, the sensors are behind it and the material its made of doesn't block it...could even amplify the sensors
One possibility is that there are separate crews in the saucer and engineering section, or that there are turbolifts in the nacelle pylons. As a science vessel, perhaps the actual command staff & crew live and work in one section, while the science staff occupies the other.
maybe you can ask the original designer of the model, but if I am not mistaken that Large Center peice was supposed to be a Deployable orbital Research Pod/Center They drop it off and it orbits a planet as a small station with labs.
I have one question, is there a turbolift to the secondary hull? In some design drawings there doesn't seem to be a turbolift. I may be mistaken.
Always reminded me a bit of a PBY Catalina. Especially that TOS fan version.
I got the impression that supplies wernt an issue as they stayed on station conducting research so would receive periodic visits from supply ships. The secondary hull was entirely unmanned and separated from the crew areas which would actually be useful if the ship was carrying hazardous bio/chemical cargoes or experiments, It was essentially just storage and automated equipment with a transporter room for access.
Can I have used your blog as a segment in my film.
Regarding the port, starboard shuttle bays; I'd say the shuttle pilot would rotate (platform or thruster) it to point forward, thrust sideways (until clear) then either thrust up, down or forward. ;-)
The Oberth class is what I would call a stage 3 exploration vessel. Stage one is the scout ship, the stage 2 are the ships like the Enterprise with a wide range science labs and a large number of personal. The Oberth is an exploration ship preconfigured before deployment to a specific mission. Threats have been evaluated by stage 2 vessels and the Oberth is deployed for a long term exploration. The area its deployed to is determined to be safe. If not a destroyer will deployed to patrol the area and render aid if necessary. In the SFS the Genesis planet was deep inside the Federation boundaries and the threat level was very low.
They had Food Synthesizers in TOS. They're suppose to be a little different than the Replicator and are an alternative to the food provided by the vessels Chef. Anyway, large food stores would be easily housed for the Oberth class vessel since it has a smaller crew than other Starfleet ships. So it could do long range extended survey and scientific missions quite easily.
Supposedly, there's an extendable tube that allows turbolift travel between the sections.
Maybe shops is another word for "crew stores" Let's say they need a new uniform or something like that. They would have no replicators so they would have to get it somewhere. Or it could be meaning food stores. Like a mess hall.
phoenix1985 More like machine shops as found on wet navy ships. You can replicate parts but to make something that's not in the pattern library you need to fabricate it.
Allegheny500 I concur. I was just about to post the same thing and then thought I would take a peek at the comments. ;)
Allegheny500. if you can fabricate it why cant you program the pattern and replicate it?
In many cases like a designer dress for a night out that would be the way to go, but for a new Cajun Vulcan fusion style dish you"d require some experimentation before you fed the pattern into the system. We do know that certain materials cannot be replicated for some reason so there is that also. And lets not forget that replicators make synthahol, and not actual beer or whiskey...they can't replicate the living yeast. They did replicate all the parts for the Delta Flyer in the way you suggest though.
Something I always wondered about was how do you get from the saucer section to the engineering section?
dmcarloni turbo lift,jerreries tube,site to site transporter
dmcarloni You have to be injected with a healthy dose of unbelievium -
john muller Where is the turbo lift shaft, though?
An Oberth class made an appearance at the end of Generations. It flies in front of a Nebula class at one point where you get a good perspective as to how small the ship really is!
Shops as in machine-shops, for manufacturing new elements for experimental apparatus and replacing components of the ship itself. Think a 6-axis milling machine, presses, industrial chem, carbon kilms, etc.
if i recall correctly the secondary hull was used as more of a science pod n storage area ing the tos era and engineering was inthe upper hull crew size of around 50 however the tng refit was 50% large better arm n had addition uses as well as a my versatile secondary hull with a new warp core located there
Hi, Stuart Foley. my name is Mark.
Question, do you consider Jakill's star trek books cannon.
he has all the tos, movies, net gen , vgr, ds9 ships and their variants .
I've always liked t his ship and i'm not usually a fan of the non saucer Starfleet ships (ie Defiant). I always thought the secondary hull was actually just a third warp pod as I never saw any lights or windows to suggest people lived in it and it had the intermix coolers in the second half. So, the whole "How do they get to the secondary hull?" was never an issue for me. I do member that Jackhill's Starship books had various versions of the Oberth from tug, to torpedo boat to medical ship. Interesting little work horse.
I always thought that the secxondary hull was an exchangable mission pod, some version of which might not even need regular crewing
I do have to give a nod that I learned a lot of interesting facts about this ship form this video. Good job on it.
Great job on this one! Id love to see the Daedalus class explored....to name just one :)
I've always assumed the size of the warp nacelles was dictated by the size of the warp field you wanted to create. The Phoenix had very small nacelles as do TOS shuttles and we see that the larger the ship, the larger the warp bubble needs to be and the nacelle size seems to reflect that.
Good episode of the Oberth Class.
I think the "shops" would be machine shops for building specialized equipment on the fly
Regarding the relative size of the Klingon Bird of Prey to the Oberth class, it can be noted that there were actually at least two or three classes of Bird of Preys in the Klingon Fleet, the B'Rel, the K'Vort and the D12. The B'Rel is a small ship, which is probably the one shown in the comparison at time stamp 19:35. The K'Vort class, which was seen in "Yesterday's Enterprise", is the larger vessel, but this topic is probably cover this in The Bird of Prey Trekyards episodes.
Yes. We talked about each of us size classes in our bird of prey episode so check it out as well
In STAR TREK THE NEXT GENERATION BIRTH OF THE FEDERATION PC computer game, I find the upgraded version of the Oberth class ship to be very useful, for the cost of maintaining it, it can be more useful to have a large number of these ships than other small ships like the Miranda class. Mostly due to how efficient the Oberth is.
Although they didn't have replicators back in the TOS era, they had "Synthesizers," presumably in their "Shops." I'm sure the huge secondary hull stored enough bulk material and reclamation equipment for such a small crew.
I love the Oberth and am really glad we just got a tier 6 one in Star Trek Online. It's not a very practical starship design IMHO but I love it all the same! In my head canon its a submarine for scientific research of ocean worlds, or large swathes of alien ocean anyway, with a starship section on top which detaches to transport it from world to world. There are issues with this theory but it looks right to me somehow! There are two crews the 'star ship' crew and the 'sub' crew' and while the sub is in use they relay information to the orbiting star-drive section! when it's time to re-attach, the star drive section tractors the sub back into position and off they go!
as far as how to get down to the lower hull...what ID instead of wasting the space by fitting a turbo lift tube in either the left or right strut... what about some sort of external transport pod that rides along rails in the inside part of the struts and enter and exit airlocks built into the two hulls... that would be alot more practical than J tubes, transporters, or work bees. although ideally I would retro fit a TOS style neck between the two hulls... but to make it distinctive I would reverse the slope and have it slope forward from the rear of the upper hull as it descends to the lower..
that would then allow the lower hulls to contain all of engineering, and a shuttle bay...and allow the upper hull to be residential and labs
Even if your turbolift is beside your antimatter storage, there isn't much you can do anywhere if something happens.
good answer on the 2dnry hull. if there are people there the work they are conducting is confidential/hazardous.
The way this design could work is if what u r calling the scondary hull is in fact a giant sensor pod assembly that the crew rarely visits. You would want some seperation from the pod sensors and the crew, so they have minimal exposure to any exotic radiation emitted and don’t subsequently die from cancer.
How does an Oberth match up against the NX-class in terms of capabilities and mission profiles?
It would probably be similiar in my opinion :p
I always assumed the living quarters and all the vessels basic equipment was in the upper hull. The bottom section looks to be a "pod". This would mean that if you need a ship of limited capability (speed - defense - offense) you have a ready made design that can accept different mission pods (with refit).
Jackill's Guide to the Fleet Volumes 1-3 had some great alternate versions of this design.
Where do you guys the the miniatures/kits from? I looked online and seems like all the kits are old molded kits from the 1990s or so.
I would say that on the Movie version of the Oberth the 2nd hull was automated and unmanned so there would not need to be a normal way for personal to get to it. The ship would not have a large Engineering div if any because like a Shuttle the Warp system is small. This would be like a modern Cruiser which needs an Engineering Div due to the size of the ship/eng and a tug which just needs someone to check the oil.
The science winnebago camper with a pickup bed to hold sensor pallets. I understand these were mainly civilian service ships. A summer sabbatical 'expedition to Africa' type ship which required some sort of self protection. The Oberth class was produced for so long, I would expect it evolved from TOS components into TNG tech on the production line...
watchthe1369: Space El Camino
Aren’t a good many of the science probes launched from photon torpedo tubes? Might explain the torpedo tubes
Oberth has always been one of my favourite designs. What's your guys take on the lack of buzzard ramscoops?
I like to think it's a little larger than many people think- maybe like the side view where it's larger than the Bird Of Prey. The only starships that should be smaller than a Brel class are Runabouts... !!
Fox Piano Much like the Constitution refit: they're there, we just can't see them
I never thought of it before, but Oberth is small enough to seem very single-use just like the defiant. Oberth might just be a core, engine, beds and a sensor :P
Do you know what software is most often used to create these images (Photoshop, Sketchup, ect...)?
I always thought the secondary hull was unmanned. Full of sensor equipment etc.
You need to put on a space suit at impulse to go to the secondary hull. There is a retractable ladder😅.
Can you please do an episode on the Nebula-class, my favorite Trek ship design :)
At 9:04 is a non-cannon Oberth it has phaser arrays so it is post nemesisAnd size all I have seen Oberth is 150 meters long and B'rel is 109 meters
Where did you find the model for this class you show in the video?
Given the technology, why not just have a little pod that gets tractored to and from the engineering hull?
it may not be shopping shops, but work shops or fabrication shops
i also the defector design i always thought of a dolphins melon... that is the name for the organ that they use in echolocation
The Torpodo Tubes were probably for launching probles...
love these videos
I wonder what they do for waste disposal on these ships?
Those shops are probably workshops, not stores.
That was what I was going to say. Most science ships today have a workshop to do moderate repairs to their various instruments and unmanned submersible type craft. I remember reading Robert Ballard's book about finding Titanic and where it mentioned that the ship they were using was towing a sonar array/torpedo thingy and they had to fix it a few times when it broke. Kind of hard to fix your sonar torpedo without a place to fix it, or tools, or spare parts.
I always imagined the Oberth class as just a bridge an engine and sensors, I was under the impression that the “secondary hull” was an unmanned warp core pod
Those launch ports are for probe launches.
So Vulcan ships are using Ork engineers from warhammer 40k?
What if the third pylon retracts when not in use?
Are you guys going to tell about the beginning of the curse with the name USS Grissom? I mean that poor ship, always in a mess and are you going to show any footage from Star Trek Online, since it is in the game.
Guys seriously, the image in min 15 is the bottom deck pf the "saucer"; it even says deck 4 ... min effort
It was stated in an rid ode of Enterprise that they molecularly re manufacture supplies from their waste products in baby replicators....
Maybe the ship at 10:00 is the famed USS Chimera from Star Trek Outpost