Are Hypercarries Still Viable in Genshin Impact?
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- Опубликовано: 18 авг 2023
- Now that it's common knowledge that off fielders are vastly stronger than on fielders from a conceptual standpoint, I wanted to make a video discussing Hypercarries in Genshin Impact, and to analyze their potential design challenges that might cause them to fall behind compared to current teams.
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In case you're wondering why there's no mention of Lyney, this video was made before 4.0 came out. I'll be making a more dedicated video on mono element comps though because I'm excited for the trend Lyney will (hopefully) set!
Where is the keqing vid tho
I’m waiting for a character that can break shields of the same element as them 😭 would make mono teams crazy even vs dumb abyss heralds and lectors
Honestly I like this trend, but it's kinda more expensive? atleast for people that doesn't have as much character pool then again you can just save up just a hydro a dendro and shinobu for the other team and you're decently free to do as you wish
could you link the background music on your future videos they're always very good ;-;
I was just thinking about that! Thanks Vars, looking forward to it! 💃✨
The thing is , with hypercarry teams u get to spend most of the time actually playing your "main" , which way more fun -for me at least - than quick swap teams
That isn't necessarily true for all characters, though. There are the "driver" teams, where your on-field isn't the main source of damage, but rather a facilitator of it. So certain characters who normally don't get much field time, can suddenly wind up with the majority of it, even though their direct damage contribution is minimal. Driver in quotes because for some teams, the chracter doesn't even really have to drive the reactions/damage. Although, admittedly, not all characters are well suited to that, especially in a way that makes you feel good about what they're doing.
And really, if the content isn't floor 12 of the Abyss, a high damage off-field high damage character (hiya, Yelan!) or two mean you can do this with pretty much any character for almost all the rest of the content. I reckon most people that have a built Albedo have used him like this while toying with a new, not fully-built yet, character.
Even when I'm not playing a hypercarry, I still play the team as if there is a "hypercarry."
I just can't get into swapping all the time...
Even non hypercarries can be played on field, like kokomi, ayato, yae, nahida, etc.
That’s why I like punishing gray raven, your actually PUNISHED, for hyper reliance on unit switch spam since the idea is to play a unit till you run outta orbs/combo, then switch to the next one and play them long enough to let the first one have its cooldown cool a bit before the third unit is switched.
Genshin and honkai impact 3rd are both like, dump elemental skill, if burst is ready then switch summit dump then dump skill and switch again asap to keep repeating and let reactions fill up to repeat spam cycle.
With impact now just non stop sequence spam line it’s fate grand order except without needing to worry about which cards you pick for your loops.
It’s funny that punishing gray raven feels way easier to keep track since you could have a standard team rotation with each unit doing its part to dps/buff or stick on one unit mostly to only use QTE procs when you hit the correct color ping for your other units to apply buffs via memory/weapon/skill effect procs.
Which certainly hits better when PGR has loads of ways to handle unit rotations, from burning orbs to build a gauge to conjure special orbs for special attacks, activate modes that convert existing orbs to burn the surplus for high dmg moves or even just use them as fuel for an entirely different mode that could have different attacks depending on the combination you used.
Call me a PGR simp sure, but when a simple mechanic can have more flexibility then a game that wants to float the usual standard elements and have less flexibility on its elements, then I would rather the former then the latter.
Cause without chars with insanely mechanics, dendro was kind of meh with the debut dendro units and I’m sure most gave little care on what elements they used for team comps long as it had a team that refreshed reactions perpetually since Genshin reactions are just spam reaction slaps then a proper dunk from a single hit now.
Same for me
I feel like hypercarries are still viable however they just require more investment than "reaction" teams and which have similarly great results
Duhhh, and why would they be less viable because of it? If we get 5 Hyperbloom triggerers in a row nobody is going to care about it anymore. We need hypercarries with different playstyles to make the game more enjoyable
@@kawaiimika7974 They are less viable because they need more investment for the same results, it has nothing to do with enjoyability
@@kawaiimika7974I totally agree. As someone who really enjoys Eula but hates Itto playstyle it’s all about perspective and fun. however meta wise… they can fall short because of there limitations
@kawaiimika7974 Forcing playstyles on players that aren't synergistic doesn't really exude fun for a majority of the playerbase and not everyone is going to use the optimal setup for specific reactions as this is a Gacha game and not everyone has every character.
Some people don't use Raiden hyperbloom so they use Kuki. It's all down to the player in terms of how they want to use a team as well as the Opportunity costs to acquire a character that is desired by the player and this varies a LOT because people are people and that's OK.
I don't agree with your stance on making more hypercarries in the game to make the game more "enjoyable" When that can't be quantified whatsoever because forcing a playstyle that a majority of players do not like and especially for content that would necessitate that very specific setup would hurt players more than make the game more enjoyable and balanced.
Because the resources to make a team are all the same in terms of EXP, Talents and Mora. If a 6 month player doesn't have the resources to make the specific hypercarry team for a specific type of endgame content and thus being lock out to complete it due to the matchup necessitating a hypercarry team. Then it's not enjoyable whatsoever as you are asking for things to be ultra specific I order to beat that type of content. Which is why everyone hated 3.7 abyss rotation 12-1 2nd half and 12-3 1st half. Because of this restriction and forcing a playstyle that not many have the resources for
We can make 4+ easily viable Dendro teams for every Abyss too (Spread, Aggravate, Hyperbloom, Burgeon, and Bloom).
as someone who just settles for floor 11 of abyss at this point my take on the hypercarry vs quickswap team, is literally pick your fantasy
one man army / raid boss fantasy vs squad teamwork fantasy
honestly, i still like my hypercarry Teams more than hyperbloom or aggravate teams. but for me at least it comes down to wether i like the character, their design and their playstyle.
Tbf I like reaction teams more bc I started getting into genshin with a taser team, and I could never get raiden national work properly. Perhaps I got spoiled by kokomi team heals.
@@quinkana1bro Rational is one of the easiest teams to play
@@N1CKczemN1CK I think it really depends on the person. For me getting fischl and na spam is easier bc it lets me dodge without breaking combos.
Hypercarries definitely require much more investment but are hard to facilitate sometimes cause of lack of reactions in a way the hypercarries rely more on supports to hypercarry
however before dendro broke everything, a hypercarry didnt need much more investment than a quickswap team
take tazer, sucrose needed to be built properly, so did XQ, fischl and beidou
For Xiao, Bennett just needed ER on a noblesse set. Zhongli just needed black tassel and then millelith set. Xiao needed everything so while its more investment to min max its far easier to get to a base level
Hu Tao needs everything and just something to make the enemy wet
Shogun, Bennet with noblesse and Sara c6
The supports in hypercarries artifacts are mainly just the set bonus
Vertical investment for hypercarries tend to take either a lot of money or a lot of time or both. On the other hand, horizontal investment where you spread your resources enough to adapt to the current content gives some sort of instant gratification
considering how lyney is built for mono pyro I think they're actively trying to make hypercarries as an achetype more viable now.
One new character existing doesn't mean they're actively addressing the state of an entire archetype of play...
@@zipzzoneuvilette & wriothesley rn:
Also, the first Geo character in almost a year. Definitely hopeful for renewed focus.
@@ishfail wrio and nev don't advocate for mono teams tho
@@2crisp63Neuvillette can't vape so raw Hydro damage will be his primary source of damage
Wrio can't Melt consistently and is just dogshit compared to Ayaka In freeze so raw Cryo damage it is
They aren't necessarily mono, but they aren't reaction slaves either
Hypercarry teams are definitely still strong and imo still quite popular. Speaking personally, my mono geo Itto team is still by far the strongest team that I have, and is still the most fun team for me to play.
Yeah my wanderer team can outrun my other reaction base team (mostly hyperbloom or alhaitam spread) almost in all single or multiple target situation
I really hope navia wouldn't be a main dps since i want to place her in my itto team
@@white19875 I'm hoping her to be a main dps for my second geo team. I wonder when she will be released.
@@luck002 probably late in 4.x, leakers are saying 4.4 or 4.5
@@idaaa333 that's fortunate and unfortunate at the same time.🤣
Hoyo seems to be promoting Hypercarries with their past few banners which isn't a bad thing, hypercarry can definitely be viable in some circumstances or if you love that style more
Hoyoverse doesn't like Hypercarries since they don't sell the most units and make the most money. The f2p people that Hoyoverse caters to also do not like Hypercarry units so in turn Hoyoverse doesn't either since they want to cater to the audience that gives them the most clout.
I understand, especially with Sara and Faruzan, they can still get their job done even without c6
Yeah from what we've seen thus far from fontaine,the game seems to be switching towards NA/CA hypercarries(also seems to be the same case with 4.1 from the leaks we have)
@@fastedwarrior7353 TF u mean? C6 Faruzan/Sara/Gorou is expensive asf when quickswap teams can get away with C0 4 stars no big deal. Not only do u have to pull for the carry and their C6 support, but pulling for their weapon and its refinements (usually) is a decent boost in power for them.
Whales make majority of the revenue for this game, or any microtransaction game for that fact. and hypers are basically the avenue where whales will invest in.
@@MsDestroyer900 The F2P Meta slaves that make the majority of content on RUclips say and enforce it. Those characters don’t make Hoyoverse money or clout so they don’t like them nor buff them.
@VarsII Nerfing is already a practice Hoyoverse employs. They stealth nerfed Barbara's E skill hydro aura application ICD and also capped it to two targets from uncapped on Nilou's release.
They nerfed it because pre nerf Barbara was better at generating dendro cores than Nilou was. Regardless which way you want to look at it was a massive nerf to Barbara, but it wasn't even announced.
Nilou was never supposed to be good at generating cores though? She's just there to enable the passive
@@bloddrinkeraka yes, but the thing was that pre-nerf Barbara could in 3+ target be a beast of a bloom carry by her own, no Nilou needed. But we can’t have nice things and Nilou has to sell as a solution to bloom being dogshit, so Barbara enabling non-Nilou bloom team was patched out.
I always saw that as just an oversight and they just treated it like a bug- but yeah it was a fat nerf to barbruh
@@YourAverageLoser763 that Barbara's interaction worked with other elements as well, but there was simply no need to use her since her adding more hydro on let's say electro during 2.X was complete overkill on hydro since neither electro nor pyro could be applied anywhere nearly as quickly to match Barbara's E Hydro.
Now I'm excited for when the Pyro Archon is released, as she will definitely be a Hypercarry, which would be a first for archons that until now has been focusing on being supports
Raiden
Don't say she will be "hypercarry", she could also be Xiangling and Bennett hybrid
@@fzsuper3387 Raiden still can be sub-dps and be a battery
Huge copium
@@bloddrinkerakashe is a hypercarry primarily
I'm really hoping that Navia (or just Fontaine in general) gives us a geo shenhe/faruzan support char, bc even with zhongli/gorou/yunjin the geo element desperately needs it
I would like her to have a kit that revolve around crystalize reaction, maybe a geo version of Nilou, or buffing her teammate based on different kind of crystalized shard.
@@oscheoroset1298according to leaks, she will indeed be some kind of geo/crystallize support
@monthly7846
Three. That's 3 supports for geo you named. Granted, Yun jin is usable elsewhere too.
But Geo actually is the most buffed element.
@@Sencifouyand yet still falls short compared to the other elements
@@yukinamiuka
The archon of an element is the best representative of its identity.
Does Zhongli typically scream "Damage dealer" to you?
No. His motto is absolute defense and damn near infinite invulnerability.
If they ever bring in another ascension level for 90-100, I hope all the characters get a third ascension passive. It would be really nice.
As someone who only has xiao and itto it is rough if you don’t have the specific supports they need sometimes.
It still is. My exploration and domains has been a breeze using my Wanderer Hypercarry ever since I got him.
The thing is, "Hypercarry" more so defines a playstyle/archetype rather than specific characters. Theoretically, any character can be a "Hypercarry" if their surrounding teammates mainly serve to boost a specific team member's damage, rather than contribute their own raw damage. Hu Tao can either be a hypercarry if you play her with Yelan, Kazuha, Bennett, or just as an on field damage in a similarly strong team with XQ Yelan Xiangling. Xiao can either be a hypercarry who specializes in multiwave AoE output, or as an on field EM anemo driver if you really wanted. Even Qiqi can be considered a hypercarry if you pair her with an electro character, Yun jin and Bennett, albeit certainly not the strongest option.
From my perspective, the label "hypercarry" entirely depends on how much damage contribution a single character has in a specific team. In Genshin, having multiple characters that can deal a good amount of damage at reasonable investment levels is much more attainable than having one hyper invested character dealing the majority of the damage, since it's exponentially more expensive to reach higher investment levels, putting the hypercarry archetype at a disadvantage for lower and even mid level investment accounts. They become competitive once you decide to heavily invest into the hypercarry character, which can come from constellations, signature weapons, crowns, or having lots of fun in the artifact strongbox. Off fielders aren't necessarily stronger individually, but they have an undeniable advantage from their ability to attack simultaneously and benefiting much more from all the F2P friendly teamwide buffing options that are available. Basically, strength in numbers is magnified by the skewed investment curve.
To me, it's not a question of their viability / power level, but rather, a question of attainability for the hypercarry archetype.
I can agree with your perspective. I personally enjoy Ayaka teams as she was my first 5 star, and I won her 50/50 to boot. Even with meta teams that Ive seen on the internet, Im only going to fill in a second team with Hyperbloom, and really focus on those 8 chars. I love the idea of mixing and matching different characters, and I want to have the most fun I can playing this game WITHOUT spending money.
In my head, I feel like his video better describes _selfish_ carries than hyper carries in general, unless they’re the exact same thing and I’m just dumb 😂
Hypercarries are indeed needed for heavy investments however in the end people are looking for values in their characters hence why they all prefer supports more than hypercarries
Thank you for consistently posting videos Vars. They are very high quality, insightful, and incredibly interesting! I can't wait to see if you have any new takes on Fontaine later on.
They're viable, but they're a lot more tedious to build to the point where you're always better off creating 4+ Dendro teams (Spread, Aggravate, Burgeon, Hyperbloom, or Bloom).
As a Noelle main, it's way easier to just give up on hypercarrying and use her as a driver in Burgeon/Hyperbloom than Mono Geo these days, especially the previous (hardest) Abyss. Or use a Duo Geo + Duo variant. Not to mention Herald shields basically require the counter elements because they're designed so poorly, I'd rather fight Consecrated Beasts instead.
idk how noelle compares to itto since ive never used her but in recent abyss there was always 1 side that was really easy for itto teams because it was full of stuff like beasts, the chicken, triple kenki etc and mono geo just facetanks all of that so it makes for very easy and consistent clears.
@@Daniel-du5ec Depends, she's mini-Itto with like half of his DPS, since he's just raw output with no utility. I've skipped Zhongli every time and Yun Jin + Gorou + Albedo isn't that great tbh (especially for the massive DPS check in 3.7 with 4 Consecrated Beasts and missing a huge chunk of damage from having no Cinnabar Spindle, since I started in 2.8). Even swapping Yun Jin for Fischl/Xingqiu/Yelan seems to be more reliable tbh...
Anyway, Noelle + Thoma + Nahida + Yelan/Xingqiu is pretty amazing.
I spent 5 months or so building Hu Tao, she’s triple crowned with homa c1 and is a top 20% Hu Tao, she’s great for my first team but I can’t get Ayaka or raiden to be strong enough to hyper carry for the second part so I’ll give quick swap a try
As someone who still uses Itto all the time, hypercarries can still be very viable but it's a matter of picking your battles carefully. Trying to fight Lectors with mono Geo is a pain so I avoid that, but my Bennett/Zhongli/Gorou/Itto team is still one of my favorite (and strongest) teams that I have so for most Abyss rotations I've had no problems using that team. Hypercarries just require more investment than a lot of others but if it's a character you really enjoy then it's not a big deal.
I would say that they are still worth it tbh. They may require more resources compared to quick-swap teams, but when you put a decent or large amount of resources on them, they function very well.
It ultimately depends on which play style you like more tbh.
What you have said about Venti, that "in the one team he does specialize in, he is op" I kinda see the same situation with Lyney. And I believe that this is great addition to the game with 1 but. He is great in mono pyro, and he does the most dmg, he is similar to Ganyu. But. He is only very good at mono pyro. In any other team, he will not be that great. And, if you play with a single playstyle for long enough, you will get tired. And that is the main problem with Lyney. I personally don't think that hypercarries are outclassed, since main thing in game is fun.
He's good in other teams too, just because he loses the passive doesn't mean he's unplayable. Playing same Hyperbloom over and over gets boring too.
@@bloddrinkeraka well, yeah, I was wrong, he can be used in other teams. But his max potential is with Bennett, Xiangling and anemo/Zhongli, and meta players kinda only care about getting the best results. And you can make different hyperbloom teams, you can turn it into quickbloom. But yeah. Any team becomes boring after a while. But how many time you will spend on this team for it to become boring is another question. I personally don't know, and it is opinions thing.
that's actually good imo. it makes you eager to pull more.
lyney will always be a mono pyro, but that's good.
take league of legends as an example, X champion will always do one type of gameplay, you can't change their playstyle because of their kit, if you want to change the way you play, you have to change the character.
that makes you more willing to pull on different characters instead of getting another bloom driver with different animations.
my kuki has 2 builds for example, on alhaitham she's full EM for hyperbloom, while on cyno she's full HP% with some EM so she can be a sustain + battery for him + electro ressonance.
her role in the team changed because of how alhaitham and cyno are played, cyno is a super aggravate with him + kuki + nahida + baizhu, where everyone is there to boost and sustain cyno DPS, while alhaitham is a more spread out role between his personal dmg + yelan sub dps + kuki hyperblooming + nahida as a booster for everyone.
I just play who I like at this point. I love using scaramouche, and Yanfei is really fun. My mono geo with itto is great too. Quick swaps are harder for me bc I always screw up my rotation lol
Good side of hypercarry:
- You can see your characters perform in action and get to use all of their kit
Hey Vars! I was wondering if you planned to do a video on speculating the Hydro Archon's kit based on element archetypes, and gameplay aspects (no leaks), is that something you have planned it could be a really fun video :D
I think that under average investment, Hypercarries fall short of other team archetypes. BUT with very high investments and optimized stats on everyone (including the ER to burst on cooldown), Hypercarries can often be competitive or better than a lot of alternatives. That's not really why a lot of people don't play Hypercarry teams, though. Hypercarry playstyles can be jarring because of how strict its rotations are, and its team-building is very restrictive because you often need multiple strong buffers (and sometimes under specific constellations as well), leaving you with fewer team options for the other side.
However, a significant amount of players in this game have already played long enough to probably have a wide array of characters. For veterans or 1.X players, it's probably safe to assume that you have around a dozen teams that can clear Abyss against the right enemies. When you have this amount of built characters already, the issue with using Hypercarries becomes less of a problem and more of a puzzle, picking the right team to use on the other side in order to be able to use your high investment Hypercarry.
There's also the fun factor in playing a Hypercarry team. This is purely preference, but oftentimes, people prefer the more flexible teams regardless if they're a new player or a veteran. Taser, Vape, Mono, Aggravate, Quickbloom, Fridge, Reverse Melt, Freeze, and many other teams can be more satisfying to play than a team that punishes you for accidentally doing Sara's burst before Bennett's burst.
All in all, play how you like and just enjoy the game at your own pace. Don't bother doing the Abyss if you think it's too hard for your account to get a high clear. There are probably a few dozen quests and a couple of areas waiting to be explored for you to get the primos you need, lol.
Broooo whattt, you're a FFXIV enjoyer. I swear to god this is like the 4th video you blessed with Masoken's genius. Happy to see my people enjoying both games.
I love Quickswap:
Xiangling, Bennett, Xingqiu's talent levels are 9 13 13 due to Bennys c6
Rosaria, Sucrose, 9 12 12
Fischel, Yaoyao, Sara, Diona, Thoma 1 12 12
Heizou - 9 12 12
Based on the leaks it looks like neuvillette might fit into this category and looking at his I know it’s gonna be great
Players ultimately look for the path of least resistance aka they look for situations where they won't have to torture themselves as much in artifact farming. I think that is what's somewhat screwing over hypercarries. Hypercarries are good for sure, but their damage potential all but disappears without investment that is relatively heavier compared to quickswap teams. Raiden, for example, is good for sure. But without a lot of investment, she's going to fall flat on her face in damage. If I have to guess that's why Hyperbloom Raiden came up as an alternative: Players just got fed up engaging themselves in an artifact grind for the best CRIT substats that anything else that doesn't involve as serious of an investment is already a win for them.
Ultimately though I don't really think hypercarries are fading, it's just that there's now an even bigger drive to shift the playerbase's view on damage from just big damage numbers to instead being more DoT-ish. Bottom line is that it doesn't matter in what way you deal damage as long as you deal damage.
Stormblood music (maybe Song of Salt and Suffering?) in the background, I see you Vars
hypercarries are very much still viable imo, as long as they have good supports, which makes sense, and well invested into. More often than not, being a reaction carry dps makes you a bit more valuable than ones that aren't. As someone who half-asses builds most of the time, getting hyperbloom set up was a breeze while being resin efficient, since gilded and deepwood shared a domain, compared to getting crimson hutao set up with xingqiu emblem. (shimenawa couldve worked but crimson was better for vape/melt)
Hypercarry teams are usually more resources friendly (one character is heavily built) than quickswap teams, but usually have worse performance. In my opinion it's viable and sometimes even great but there are better options in the quickswap style. In the end as long as you reach a certain DPS then you can clear abyss. One thing is dendro is so busted that making hyperbloom teams are even easier than building a hypercarry.
Noelle is super overlooked, but actually goated for a hypercarry slot. Her ascension passive benefits both her damage and her utility, and her numbers aren't too much worse than It's but come with a slew of benefits. Besides healing and shielding, she gets an extra shield in the event squishier supports take a strong hit, works with a large variety of sets, her horizontal range is massive giving her insane CC, she extends her own buff duration on kills, and doesn't lose infusion when she swaps.
That last one is huge because you can swap off to supports regularly not only to reapply buffs, but you can consistently proc favonius passives for supports that use it and funnel them into her which means even with near 0 energy investment, I struggle with it less than most hypercarries in the game. Currently I use Yun Jin, Gorou, and Mona with her and they all benefit a ton from favonius weapons as well.
Shootouts to fixing autocorrect running "Itto" like 3 times and it still messing it up when I went to post this
NILOU IS NOT A HYPERCARRY, SHES AN ENABLER AAAAA
@@fzhs7030 she is the enabler because shes the one that enables bountiful cores to even exist, although i agree that enabling support is a better way to describe her
@@fzhs7030 well not really, yeah at a baseline they’re just burgeons minus the pyro part but the “particular” thing about them is that it is not possible to convert then into hyperblooms or burgeons
Hypercarries are aboutely 100% viable. There aren’t inherently better or worse than reaction teams. And in fact can be competitive in speedrunning with other reaction teams. What hypercarry teams lack in reaction they can make up for with high multiplers, self buffing and access to strong supports. C6 Faruzan with Scara or Xiao is a great example of this.
And as for “investment” hypercarries don’t really require any more investment than reaction teams. You will want fully leveled up talent, good artifacts, BiS 4* or 5* weapon, and good supports. The only real investment that’s above average for Scara and Xiao is requiring C6 Faruzan.
getting em mainstat on 3 artifacts is statistically easier than getting a good set of vermilion. additionally units like nahida almost dont need personal dmg unless played in spread. i use subpar deepwood and a lvl 70 magic guide, which is a 3*.
she's still the reason i 36* abyss, just bc of her application
nilou's talents can stay lvl 1 and it doesnt affect her, same with kuki where you would only level her talents for survivability
BACK IN MY DAYS ....... Ningguang was the best 4 star DPS unit ...
Ning was never the best 4* dps tho,even back in 1.0.
Wanderer doesn't have to be a hypercarry, btw. He is really good at driving and enabling certain comps and reactions.
you can use him like that but sucrose will always be an upgrade since you're playing without c6 faru in those teams
@@spaleng and that she can buff the teams damage.
Hyper carry are still valuable as long they either have great supports or compensate it with their own abilities as you mentioned, Eula is perfect example for it players ignored mika for Ei and Shenhe and she’s mostly relying on her bust crit damage.
Before watching
I do think hypercarries are still usefull
Here's my stance. Make a Shenhu for every hyper carry. Many supports specifically designed for hyper carries are 4 stars characters (and are only comparable to c0 five stars at high constellations). Example for Ganyu and Ayaka it's easy to just wait for the next Shenhu rerun plan and you can garauntee results. Gorou and Yunjin are my only c6 four star units that were specifically designed for hyper carries (defence and Normal attack scailing kits) Raiden has been out almost two years and despite wishing on her rerun banners, my Kujo Sara is still c3 and the same for Wanderer. Wanderer who absolutely has to be played as a hyper however can't compete with other units without Faruzan. This all boils down to stop paring 5 star units with four star units to do raw damage. If you are going to don't deliberately design flaws in their kit (looking at you Kujo Sara, Faruzan and Mika), only to waste constellations to fix it. They should all be servicable at c0 like the power 4. There's no pitty on 4 stars so it could take 12 months or longer to get a 4 star unit to c6. As more units are introduced it'll only make it harder. Mihoyi absolutely knows this though and want people to wish on rerun banners so it's unlikely to change
Yes, agreed. Getting a C0 limited 5 star is much easier than C6 4 star. My Sara is also C3 and I got C1 Raiden 🤣 I just want to complete C6 4 star on my account but it's so hard with these non guaranteed drops.
@@naotonhan5253 I have c0 Raiden and her signature weapon. Bother easier to obtain than a c6 four star haha
2:09 Kazuha casually landing on a frog
I still prefer quick swap because my problem with hypercarry is that is all setup for a single character, while the other is all about team reactions
I think hypercarries, in spite of the lower overall dmg than most off-field teams, will always be just as, if not more popular for the sole reason that people like playing their favorite character. People who absolutely LOVE a character like, lets say, Xiao or Cyno, get to spend all the field time on their favorite character. I know when Kazuha released I forced him into a hypercarry position because I loved everything about him and I wanted all my field time to be on him, and even now I still am partial to them. I main Diluc and run him every abyss even though I know I could do so much better with a XL team.
They're a valid playstyle for people who like it. That makes them viable as long as people enjoy the playstyle
Hypercarries will always be viable if you put in the investment. The issue plaguing them is that there are so many other accessible options that raise the damage floor with less resources and there’s no guarantee that a hypercarry can keep up with the competition. A friend of mine who got me into Genshin is a Hu Tao main who hyper invested into her artifacts and team, and he’s become disheartened because a Hyperbloom team he created from scratch one day was able to clear SA faster.
nilou is more like an enabler/support, are shenhe/yunjin dps units bc they buff characters based on their stats?
nearly every single character used in any quickswap team is an enabler or support lol. also in what way is nilou a support? and no shenhe and yunjin are not dps units, how did you even come to that conclusion?
@@pa9030I would classify Nilou as both an off field dps and a buff support, at least when playing her optimally (meaning Nilou and another hydro owning almost all blooms)
@@pa9030 1. its was question 2. many quickswap teams have replacments while nilou is nearly irraplacable in bloom teams 2. its the same as nilou, they buff chacarters based on their hp/atk/def stats respectivley and some ppl treat nilou as dps while she doesnt even do much dmg in many bloom comps nilou/hydro/hydro/nahida core for ex.
for that to be optimal playstyle you NEED nilou sig weapon bc she is going to have em problems otherwise. best team and easiest to play is nilou double hydro and nahida@@d3m3nt3d_t3acup_
@@pa9030man... In taser teams, Fischl and Beidou are off field DPS, not supports or enabler. In national team, Xiangling and Xingqiu is off field DPS, in bloom teams, Nahida is an enabler? In quickswap teams, everyone contributes to the overall dmg, with at least 2 or 3 dmg dealers.
Also, Shenhe and Yunjin can be considered dmg dealers because their dmg is added into the on field DPS, that's why their buffs have quotas on them, not just a percentage buff like Bennett or Candace
I think a great example of this is the new character Lyney as his current best teams are centered around making him the hyper carry as from my experience he's a great unit to have and can reach some pretty nice numbers even with some subpar artifacts but he's not reaching the extremes of my quick swap teams
And another thing to think of is that for hyper carry you need to build that one unit really well or the whole team falls apart where in quick swap teams you can build then a little subpar and still get like 80% of the teams potential making quick swap a lot easier to make.
Lyney is mono element done so well (though I can understand people who don't like charge shot but his kit is well thought out). His passives are so well thought out that he is not held back by lack of reactions and is a direct upgrade from the current version of the mono pyro team. I can't help but think about if Itto had those kinds of passives as a mono geo user he clears content in enough time but still falls behind other teams. Gorou technically has the passives to buff more based on mono geo but Itto would be killer with the passives too. I like that Lyney is very strong within his niche and competitive enough with other team comps, not a must pull but for those who do pull him they will have a strong team.
I honestly think the issue is greatly exaggerated, here's why:
Whether a character is good or bad doesn't rely on how well it compares against other characters, but how well it compares against what the game throws at you. If we rank all characters on a scale from 1 to 10, and the power required to clear the entirety of the game is 6, a lot of characters being called bad are a 7 or even an 8, and are being called bad because they are compared to the 9 and 10 ones. On top of that, a bunch of these characters require more skill to use than the higher tiered ones.
The perfect example to this is Eula. I've seen a guy clear Abyss 12 with a F2P Eula build with not insane artifacts and only forge weapons and 4* supports (he used Eula, Rosaria, Bennett and I think Raiden, maybe it was Fischl or Kuki, I don't remember), while I couldn't do it even when using better weapons and artifacts, or even when trying to use my C2 Hypercarry Raiden since she has an overall similar gameplay to Eula (buff, burst, attack, repeat). Some of these characters are seen as abd due to the skill requirement being higher for a similar payoff than these easier to play characters.
That also shows up on reaction based teams like Hyperbloom or Nilou Bloom, they're very easy to play, require basically no skill, and they're some of if not the best teams in the game so far, being the reason why they're so high tiered.
Hypercarry teams are still viable and even the ones considered meh or even bad like Eula or Itto are actually very good. I always see people saying things about enemy physical defense, yet I've seen that F2P team I talked about one shot the doritos in the abyss with Eula's burst without much issue.
It ultimately depends on the level of investment you have into them. Hypercarry teams like wanderer and xiao are easily some of the best in the game if u have a c6 faruzan,good artifacts and good weps. Altho they do take alot of investment they have a trade off which is, u only really need to build them well not the other 3 teammates.
Overall,if u can invest unti a hypercarry and thier team then its almost always well worth it.
If speculation is correct, we’ll be getting a few 5 star hp scaling hypercarries in the next few patches. Personally, I’m *beyond* excited
It is more subdps teams versus one dps with 3 buffers. Subdps are mostly evaluated purely on strength factors as most of what they do is E-Q swap and as such people only pull if they are strong. Carries are used by "mains" and they are much more willing to spend money for weapons and cons to make said character usable.
It seems something you missed is that hypers are benefited more on dmg buff through their insane multipliers (or motion value), and they are capable of carrying the rest of the team dmg if given enough resources. They are also better in vertical investment, where a 10% increased in dmg of a hyper through artifacts, weapons, buffs, etc., means somewhere between 7-9% dmg increase of the entire team's dmg, while on contrast, those 10% can only bring a 2-4 % increased in team damage of a quick swap team. If a hyper are given enough resources, they could brute force through contents that they aren't suppose to clear, while in contrast, playing quickswap of say, taser, would be easily countered by an electro lector.
The main downside of playing hyper is that you are restricting yourself to 1-3 teams, because hypers can't fit anywhere, and they need better investment of a specific artifact set, so your other artifact sets are bad. And if there's a content that you can't brute force through, you would have to use an entirely different team if you want to clear it.
In theory, the beauty of Genshin is that there never needs to be a buff directly to a character, because they can be buffed through Weapons and new character that just synergize really well with them.
If there was a weapon or a support that gives a massive damage increase in shields, suddenly Geo units and Xinyan can become strong.
Add a weapon that steals enemy armor and Noelle's damage could explode.
Alternatively, they can also add enemies that are easier to deal with with certain units on your party.
Like an enemy that takes increased damage for a short period after using a very powerful attack for which you would miss the window if you had to dodge it, but would probably just kill you otherwise. Suddenly shielding units (and Beidou) become more powerful in context of these enemies.
They could also bring forth more events that focus on Co-op as a whole bunch of different units can be viable for that.
Point is, there are different ways to buff or add importance to weaker characters that don't force you to adjust their own numbers.
Hoyo not going for it is on them
I really don't think it is as simple as quickswap or hypercarry, especially these days. Eula, for example, never really fit in either category, despite people calling her a hypercarry. Her most effective overall teams have always seen her share the damage dealing duties, due to the drawbacks inherent in physical damage. Right from the start, teaming her with a C2 Raiden was the way to go. Meanwhile, the addition of the likes of Yelan and Nahida mean that, for many teams, the hypercarry and reaction-spam have both seen their share of the damage reduced, as these powerhouses do enough damage from off-field that they can each carry the DPS needs of a team in almost all content by themselves, and consequently, there is very little need to swap.
Wasn’t the main reason Eula used with Raiden because she was a good electro driver for cryo + electros physical resistance rebuff further boosting or acting as support for Eula?
Eula is considered a hyper carry because her kit revolves around her being a dps and you can make viable teams with her as the hyper carry (hyper carry being the unit that does at least 70% of the teams overall dps). TBH every hyper carry unit can be a main dps and have team mates that can do a lot of damage, just look at funeration (Hu Tao, Yelan, Xingqui, and Xiangling).
They have been making the game less hypercarry-full, most of the newer added characters have been made to be put into a quickswap team or one that uses reactions to the max
I was literally just thinking about how hypercarries are no longer good or at the very least its not in my interest as an ar60 player to put in that much investment for a character
Having a character like shinobu where i can just slap some em artifacts on, level her up and call it a day is significantly more worth my resources than spending time farming for crit artifacts, leveling up all the talents and whatnot
8:45 What? This is the first time ive ever heard Ayaka needing Shenhe
As a Razor main who refuses to play the cursed build, I find him to still be viable for almost all content in the game. Every time I do a story quest I swap back to my old party of Zhongdong, Razor, and C5 Bennett with this weird little red exclamation point next to his picture, and the final slot being flex for Ganyu, Kazoo Kid, Water Boy, or whatever else I need at the time. A really poorly optimized team that is carried by Zhongli and Bennett but Razor is still plenty even with that.
I actually often adjust my builds, so that even in quick swaps I get to play it kinda like a Hypercarry, and actually play the character I like playing. Like my Alhaitham hyperbloom team is made to have Alhaitham on field for as long as possible without too much detriment to dmg. I just like the feel of Hypercarry more. My current best team is my Wanderer Hypercarry, and I adore playing Wanderer, so even though I will have to opt out ceetain abyss due to incomparability to the roster of enemies, I still play him all the time in overworld.
I don't understand why people think the mono geo team underperforms. I assure you all a well built itto team will out damage most teams.
Even my poorly built Itto can clear with no problem.
@@asphirron there's no problem that can't be solved by hitting it with a rock
they will have to pry my mono-geo itto team out of my cold dead hands!!!
I always prefer quickswap because those colorful numbers are eye candy with the exception of my girl Yoimiya. I use her in overload sometimes just for satisfaction
another overload enjoyer! i dont have yoi but use yanfei instead. its the first team i played after learning what good synergy is and i still use it in floor 11 and overworld
I have found myself playing only quickswap teams after 3.0 came out. Before that I kinda didn’t care and didn’t even know about the existence of taser. But then I saw how hyperbloom works and it amazed me. The only hypercarry team I still play in abyss regularly is international. This team is just too strong. My every other hypercarry teams failed in abyss miserably (Hu Tao, Ayaya, shogun hyper). I just don’t have enough dmg. But if I use Nahida hyperbloom or Nilou bloom, or burgeon my life instantly becomes so much easier.
Semi related this shows me they need to adopt the fgo method of being willing to buff characters via quest / story interludes.
the difference between the two is that one super strong unit is a bigger flex than 4 different character's off field reactions going off at once. Whether that be in coop or in one shot comps the only person seeing your quick swap comps shine is you doing abyss for the 1240912049th time.
Personally, I get most enjoyment playing from hypercarry teams. Though it's true that quick swap or reactions based teams are easier to execute and work as well with less investment, hypercarry teams investment feels much more rewarding and make you prouder than anything else when you finally see the results. Besides when you finally find the hypercarry that you absolutely love (character or design wise) and main it's always much more fun to see them on field for the longest time tbh XD being a low spender, i am still investing a bunch into my hutao, ayaka, xiao teams but it feels exciting when you finally get those missing pieces for them, and open world being easy gives you all the freedom to experiment with their team comps and still try out new characters 🤗 will always love this playstyle the most in the game
Hypercarries can still be as strong out more strong than quick swap, depending on the character my Ayaka hits 650k with her burst in total, without Shenhe. This can also hit multiple enemies meaning that these hypercarries can be stronger than some of the new quick swap teams such as hyper bloom which is single target.
650k dpr is very low , honestly.
No matter what anyone says, I LOVE hypercarries. I love relying in a single character to dish out absurd amount of damage. I love having my favorite character on field most of the time. I love being able to see all their animations. I love having a "main". I just really love the playstyle, it's soooo much fun
I'm always looking forward to pull for a new hypercarry because I know that, even if they're not S tier, I'll enjoy using them
As someone who loves hypercarries and unga bunga, I think the problem isn't about dmg or team building most of the times. It's the way they design abyss lineups that tends to clash with their kits. Hypercarries normally have a short-medium period of time that you need to use pretty well and hit as much as you can before it's over. But the bosses and enemies who move around a lot, teleport, fly, bury themselves, etc can ruin your rotations and DPS so easily. And if it's a burst-dependent DPS that's ER hungry like Eula, Itto, Xiao, and the like, it just hurts so much to miss. Or maybe your burst isn't even up when the enemy us in a weakened state! With skill-dependent ones like Yoimiya, Hu Tao, Ayato, Wanderer, etc you still have that problem but you can get back up faster, when their CD ends. Now in the hyperbloom/quickbloom era, sometimes it's just much easier for your sanity to go brrr at least for the worst half of floor 12 (or both), while benching my overinvested faves for that abyss.
That said, I'm a mad lass and find quickbloom Cyno to be a good way to scratch my itch to go unga bunga while having the benefits of quickswap that most of the other hypercarries don't have. If a chamber is full of small mobs, I just don't use his burst and let Nahida/XQ/Kuki take care of it. And when it's big enemies, I use him as a mix of enabler and carry, go nuts while everyone does damage and numbers, and swap out when we run out of an element. It's not an optimal situation, I know it's the team and not him the one carrying, I know I should let only Kuki pop the seeds, and it would be more meta to replace him with an Alhaitham or a Yelan, for instance. But honestly, I find this team more fun for my caveman tastes and very few abysses I've been unable to 36* using Cyno so why shouldn't I use my boy when he's still viable in this arrangement, unlike my poor overinvested c1r1 Xiao?
i like the idea of that team, seems really comfy, there's not too much pressure on cyno cuz hpb is already capable.
@@spaleng It's really comfy! Damage aside, Cyno's biggest problem isn't only the burst duration being incompatible with most characters, but also his bad resistance to interruption. Using Xingqiu (especifically him, with Yelan you get staggered) is just as good as a shield. I heard Beidou works too. With Kuki though, even an EM build has more than enough healing to keep him and the rest alive if you have skill issue. This is why I prefer XQ/Kuki over Yelan/Raiden in his quickbloom team, I find that they make him flow better
@@caparashon i agree, i like how they have defensive util but good dmg alongside it,, nicer to play and feels like youre really getting a lot out of a team slot
i think this was a good take with one exception, a few of the teams you mentioned arent really hyper teams. mono geo is actually good but its not because of itto its because both itto and albedo can both take advantage of the gorou buff, its similar to how aggravate dps units like keqing do half of "their damage" by driving fischl a4. the hypercarry playstyle is fundamentally bad unless you whale hard enough that your one buffed unit does a team's worth of dps, and any on field dps who either doesn't drive reactions (e.g. childe) or have synergy with off field dps (e.g. lyney with xiangling) gets forced into hypercarry teams which makes them bad for most players
The thing is, Eula and Itto are truly not flawed, but the game around them is what balances them. Since Spiral Abyss is the true test of character in Genshin, as long as they add bosses with resistance to Physical, Eula cannot shine. Itto atleast has the benefit of every new Geo character being shoehorned into a defense scaling so it all works out through team comp stat synergy.
I'm gonna just slap my personal experience with this on here. I've got an Ayaka freeze team that I'd say is hypercarry. I focus on keeping the enemy frozen while Ayaka does 90% of the damage, Yelan is Sub DPS, Diona shield, heals, buff, battery, Sucrose because anemo. I've had Ayaka since her Sumeru rerun and I've been EXCLUSIVELY building this team since. However, I also pulled Nilou, Nahida, and Nahida's weapon during that rerun, so I also messed around with a budget bloom and hyperbloom team. I want to point out that I have spent months of resin on Ayaka, getting her a decent crit rate, attack, crit damage spread. It's not perfect, far from it, it still needs work, but it's decent. Her team is all max ascension, Ayaka herself is level 90.
My hyperbloom team is Nahida, Kuki, Kokomi, and Sucrose. I have maybe used a days worth of resin on each of them compared to how much I've farmed for Yelan and Ayaka on my main team. Most of them aren't even 80/90. Kuki is level 70. Koko is level 60. THIS HYPERBLOOM TEAM CLEARS JUST ABOUT ANY DOMAIN I FACE IN SUB ONE MINUTE. Yes, with virtually no investment I am clearing out artifact domains in 50 some seconds at best, and like a minute ten at worst. I am bad at rotations so I just kinda mash everything out and it just happens. It's also an unkillable team because of Kokomi and Kuki dual healing at all times. My Ayaka freeze team takes, roughly, at best, if I have everyone's ult up, like 2 minutes to kill a domain. It's... hyperbloom is busted. Period. Bloom is pretty good too, ngl, especially if you have Nilou. I have no idea how a hypercarry team is even supposed to compete at this point.
6:19 Keep in mind this is only if you have Albedo's C4 - FOUR. And if you check Xiao's c4, it gives him a DEF bonus. Whoever decided to swap their c4's is an evil madlad, i say.
I feel like funny enough, some of the best hypercarries are the units that are ment to/marketed as quick swap units. This probably because in a lot of cases where their rotations may be messed up, you can still do competent damage by using them as intended.
While I don't think we will ever have a new hypercarry come out that shakes the meta the way Hu Tao and Ganyu did on release, I think they will always see use if the damage is competitive and most importantly their kits feel fun or unique to use.
We already have. Raiden.
I mean, while you can definitely do hypercarry Raiden, the vast majority of her use is on quickswap teams like Raiden international. She brings a lot of utility in addition to damage, whereas Hu Tao and Ganyu are pure high damage numbers. She shook the meta bc she can do so many things, instead of being a hypercarry that is just better than the old ones damage wise.@@itsSmiv
I love my Eula, but with the release of dendro she falling really hard. The new teams are soo easy to build to an abyss clearing level. Just level them up and give them HP% O.o
As a Eula main, I can say that with dendro release, it made it easier for teams to do damage close to her nuke over time. Now, I don't have Nilou or Nahida, but can say it is a challenge for Eula damage around maybe C0-C2. C6 Eula probably will still do it in better time depending on the case. Dendro does bring some fun in the game after playing the same way and teams. I love how easier it is if I feel lazy. 😂
Then again, if abyss wasn't bullet sponges, it'll be fun to blow people up faster with dendro.
@@Hikarochan exactly that! And also not having Nahida makes it even worse or now every new showcase is basically a Nahida variety showcase
@@NTDang Yoooo!! Facts homie! EVERY showcase is her in terms of damage and most spiral abyss runs. Before so, it use to be Kazuha and Bennetts. xD Makes me regret so hard deciding at that point in Genshin I don't need every five-star. Definitely not making this mistake with Furina.
true, i was shocked at how quickly i could get nilou bloom up and running, i lost 5050 to her weapon too, making it easier but im sure her weapon has a greater impact than the regular hypercarry bis'
I have a team where Baizhu (48k HP Deepwood build) is the driver for a Hyperbloom setup and that team does more damage than my Wanderer hypercarry team. Death by a thousand cuts has always felt stronger than the consistent crit-based setups I've played so far.
IMO the idea that buffing characters is just not possible because people would riot for buffs to their main doesn't seem that valid. Plenty of other gachas will buff characters that underperform when they've been powercrept a ton. Whether through straight buffs or new mechanics or new weapons etc there are plenty of ways to make a character better.
Hoyoverse doesn't do so simply because it's more work, and Genshin is all about doing the minimum while the environment team and the character design team hardcarry it all. It's a bit sad but it's the reality of it, Genshin is HYV's cash cow not its passion project.
Yeah somewhat true. My opinion is they're afraid to step down the "buffing and debuffing character" path, because once you've done it, there's no ending, you'll keep buffing and buffing till the game is dead. So they try to hold off doing that for as long as they can. It's still fine because Genshin is more of an adventure game than a combat game, where you have plenty of things to do other than fighting.
Whenever they rerun Venti I'm pulling for him because he's the only Anemo character that I don't have and he's cracked..... Still got a lot of catching up to do as far as collecting characters that I like
in the case of Eula, she just needs a new support unit that is not Mika and has a buff that lasts long enough for Eula to take advantage of, or another new support that decreases Physical RES like Shenhe and Rosaria do. Maybe a new Electro unit that also can proc Superconduct at the same time as the Physical RES decrease.
Vars, what OST is this you're using in this video? I was so enamoured with it it almost shook my attention from the topic itself(which you always so masterfully present).
Far From Home (Drowned City of Skalla) from FFXIV
@@Noah-gn2gu Thank you! How could I forget Skalla, the first dungeon I would have no duty support in?
They really require a lot of investment and specific team building. I have wanderer in second account and building him wasn't easy compared to supports like kazuha or nahida. I still don't have good supports for him😢
Raiden National is NOT a hypercarry team. As well as Hu Tao’s best teams - double hydro - are also not exactly hypercarry teams as hydro units tend to do 50% of the team DPS, adding Xiangling or Fischl for the last slot diminishes Hu Tao’s share in the team dps even more.
Do not confuse characters being designed as hypercarries (having high motion values but pretty much nothing else, so their best use is to deal damage while buffed by their team) and hypercarry team archetype.
The point of hypercarry archetype is to buff main carry in exchange for other teammates damage. That’s what makes those team scale better with investment - when 90% of your team damage is dealt by one party member, doubling their damage by getting 5* weapons and constellations would lead to almost double of the team dps.
And hypercarry characters can be played in non-hyper teams (Xiao national, Wanderer taser, Eula hyperbloom, Yoimiya mono-pyro etc) and non-hypercarry characters can be forced into hypercarry role (arguably Ayato hyper, Heizou hyper, Dehya hyper, phys hyper Zhongli etc). It’s just usually less good than their intended role, but not always.
Hypercarries tend to be my favorite archetype of characters. Although I enjoy reaction-based teams, having my favorite character take 99% of the field just seems more fun to me. I do agree that some hypercarries suffer from their potential not being able to exceed past a certain limit, and it is a shame they cannot truly shine, like Wanderer, who is my main and the one I run as a hypercarry. But if I were to pick between more damage or playing my favorite character as a hypercarry, I would pick hypercarry. While hypercarries may not be as popular or strong, they are still pretty viable in my opinion. It's like passing all the spotlight onto one character, just to enjoy their playstyle at fullest
As an F2P my only hyper-carry is Heizou and the rest are flexible units that can be in a quick-swap. Building up a hypercarry takes a lot of investment and luck including the supporting characters to whom they will funnel all their skills and buffs for the hypercarry; I can't afford that to play the game and enjoy at the same time. The reason I pulled for Yelan, Kazuha, Nahida etc.
The investment between quick swipe and hyper carry are almost the same
I agree. Take for instance a Wanderer/Faruzan/Bennett/Yanfei hyper. For everyone but Wanderer all you care about really is ER. Nothing else adds enough to the team to be a concern. In qs teams you really need to worry about more sub stats and min maxing for all 4. I've never really understood the it takes more investment argument. Yeah it takes more for the actual carry but less for everyone else and in my experience it evens out
"Random Bullsh1t Go" is the most fun playstyle
I just realized I exclusively run hypercarry teams lol, based on the situation I main Chongyun, Xiao, Wanderer, Yoimiya, or Itto. I think I just like the feel of staying on one character and going ham more than constantly switching back and forth.
I feel very terribly sad playing Eula even tho she is my favourite character since her first banner, it feels so wrong seeing that i'm obligated to have c6 mika and rosaria, to even come close to a c0 national team, and just because every living thing in that game is physical resistant, it bothers me immensely and i heard the same from others: "a max invested hypercarry team oftem does less damage and have less utility than elemental and quick swap teams". i love playing hypercarry characters, but sometimes it does hurt to se them so perfectly built, yet they feel so weak.
It's more of a Eula problem than hypercarry problem. She doesn't have a true dedicated support for her yet, Mika is a joke in Eula team.
And at maxed investment, I mean C6R5, hypercarry tends to be competitive and outclassed reaction based teams.
Also, national team requires heavy investments as well, Xingqiu C2 at least, Xiangling C4 at least, Bennett C1 at least. All of them need really high ER while balancing their crits, atks and EM. Especially Xiangling, her investment is on par with hypercarries if you want national team to deal dmg as it's supposed to do
I mean, hypercarry is a good first-team, because you get a lot of value with not a lot of investment. That is, you hyperinvest in one character, and minimally invest in 3 "supports".
But to me, from the nature of an elemental reaction game, the "peak" damage necessarily would be either one on-field plus three off-field team, or four off-field teams.
The total "investment vector" you get from investing in 4 off-field units at the same time is just way larger than a one on-field plus buffers. Usually investing in buffers does not scale linearly with team damage, while a off-field-DPS roughly does.
I mean, building hyperbloom is a lot easier early game. Hypercarries require so much investment they're really there for last
@@bloddrinkeraka Doesn't Hyperbloom basically require Xingqiu or Yelan?
Dendro is easy, because of Dendro MC. The electro part is not hard to get, because so many units fit the role. Lisa won't really work with low investment, 'cause she needs tons of ER.
I mean, I totally agree that the first "proper" team (aiming to get high stars in Abyss) anyone goes for should be hyperbloom, overvape, or electrocharged-swirl. But that basically require a decent amount of investment in 3 different characters. It's also a bit awkward with just free units.
I also agree that reaching the ceiling on hyper-carry is extremely difficult. However getting to the floor performance of a hypercarry is pretty easy, since it's basically just getting the correct main-stat artifacts.
In my previous comment I was talking about just getting a first "functional team".
As for going for hypercarry in the late-game, it's something one *can do*, but I wouldn't exactly call it efficient. Indeed, it's hard to compete with quickswap teams where it comes to team damage output. There's also the fact that quick-swap units tend to be a lot more flexible.
I tried reaction teams and it always ends in a ko . So I always have to go back to Eula .
Bruh what are your builds if physical Eula outclasses them?
No offense to you, but those must be some Dogshit reaction teams that you have but you’re probably also a newer player. 🤔that’s also free to play so you might not have good characters.
@@bloddrinkeraka Fried Traveler Kuki Lisa and Sucrose
@@anthonyhaas4610no wonder it's shit 💀
@@anthonyhaas4610 well that’s your problem - you’re using wrong units. Replace Traveler and Kuki to Yaoyao and Fischl and you’ll have amazing aggravate team. Or get rid of Lisa and Sucrose, slot Xingqiu and Fischl/Beidou/Kaeya/Zhongli/your Eula even and you’ll have a really strong hyperbloom team.
khazuha dodged that frogs attack like a champ 2:06
I can build so many teams at this point that i dont need summon until cryo region comes out. All you need is versitality to beat this game. I can go full hypercarry Ayato and deal ridiculus amount of dmg with his slashes or burgeon thoma with Ayato driver. Same with my favorite team, hypercarry Raiden, im killing mobs before i can regen my energy back, i can go hyperbloom nahida with kuki or yae aggrevate with kirara or my absolute best aggrevate keqing with yaoyao, national with every possible variant, doesnt matter what team you will use as long as it matches abyss type
pretty interesting, i wonder if you could make kokomi into a hypercarry?
Yes you can, run her in national with Sac Frags and make her do 30K charged attacks
I never use her as a hypercarry but if you want to use her on field she can be a great driver form bloom based reaction teams or taser team.
@@kawaiimika7974 yeah, except Barbara could do it too with triple the damage...
@@Kaiji... is this 2020? Fo you still believe the all crit damage no crit rate damage per screenshots?
@@bencegergohocz5988 Barbara easily hits 100k+ every vape when buffed?
It's very easy to do with Sunfire Jean too... Barbara can scale off the ATK buff (Bennett) and can crit (which is amplified by said ATK buffs), these are very important differences when comparing her with Kokomi.
I was thinking about this yesterday, nice!
They could buff hypercarries by setting an abyss buff that scales with field time, like on field character gets x percentage extra damage for every consecutive second of remaining on field
It can't be question if viable.
My roommate completed entire game and floor 12 with starter units, making then 'viable'.
Fact is that hypercarries need vastly more investment and optimizing to still end up with inferior outcomes compared to reaction teams.
Hypercarries have to have massively over tuned numbers on their own, whilst also their support must be stronger supports. To match clear speeds of Nahida/Alhaitham teams Shenhe's cryo support for Ayaka as an example should be nearly 1.8 times numerically higher if Ayaka's numbers stay the same.
Raiden is one of the rare cases of hypercarry who is strong enough with current supporting line-up for her to be played as hypercarry.
Eula for example doesnt work as well, because Superconduct became a mandatory crutch which locks out one of the team's slot for mandatory electro unit.
Enemy design actively work against her win conditions making harder for her to achieve it.
Imagine Eula with her burst not having 7 sec nuke, instead for 7 seconds her crystal sword pulses for her charge application damage as heavy atack in current aoe radius for every instance of damage she inflicts with final 7 sec explosion dealing it's current base damage. With her c6 making final explosion dealing double base damage; C4 increasing crystal pulse damage by 30% vs enemies below 50% hp to retain similar overall numbers.
This would allow Eula benefit from larger variety of short duration buffs as well as clearing lower hp abyss waves much faster and more consistently since her damage would nolonger be backloaded but evenly spread out over 7 sec of burst. Since with her current burst I usually have to overkill enemies by a lot while staying on field to collect energy particles for bursting on cooldown and not interfering with 22 sec rotation.
Also how come Eula is one of very few 5* you can't pre-funnel energy for due to her extremely long burst animation. Just drain energy at the start of burst animation if you don't want to change her burst animations. How does it make sense that i can pre-funnel Raiden when she doesn't even need it, but not Eula who has to sacrifice overall CV to have a chance to burst on cooldown?
@@fzhs7030 Ever heard of the phrase: "minimal viable product" It means that product or in genshin's case starter units are valid enough to barely pass the "viable" bar. Meaning the are viable, however very, very far from being optimal. The fact that it's possible to clear indicates viability however low it is.
Since GI has no hard content, only dps checks, all units are always "viable" hence i never argue viability, rather balance and/or comparative power.
@@fzhs7030 by hard content i mean boss fights with mechanical dance and mastery taking up longer than 1 or 2.
Boss fights taking 5+ mins with mechanics that ignore burst animation s, so you have to actually dodge the mechanic, requiring tank and healer in the team for passive damage mitigation.
Abyss has Constipated beasts that can one shot, but that's not mechanically difficult a structured boss fight when they die in 20 seconds.
Lectors with elemental shields are once again not difficult they are there to burn the timer, no mechanical difficulty.
Running into timer issues due to enemies artificially being better at stalling is not difficulty.
Best example of a decent boss fight design is weekly Raiden Shogun except it dies to fast to be an actual boss. I'm more so talking about mechanical design. As well as Tartaglia as long as it has enough hp to play out as 5 min multi phase encounter.
Abyss being timer based speed rush dps check vs enemies that as getting more and more timer stalling mechanics is not difficult, it simply is getting artificially more and more annoying with every version of the game that further and further constricting pool of compositions that can 36* it.
Think of it this way, do enemies get hard if you have to fight them for another 10 seconds? If not enemies are not hard, if yes then you have a proper fight.
Timer stalling is not difficulty, it's annoyance.
@@fzhs7030 Also I myself run abyss rarely with all 8 unit, Yelan+Miko maybe adding anemo unit to swirl if i feel like timer will be an issue on one side. Raiden + Sara can clear by themselves most abyss sides adding Kazuha and Yao Yao if enemies dont allow mono electro.
I don't care if fully build 8 man roster can clear 4 seconds faster than whatever i'm doing to ignore abyss as much as possible.
Because at that point we are not talking about "viable" anymore, rather optimal, which is not and was not my argument.
I think it depends on the user account, for example, for starters Hypercarries are far more easy to build than a reaction team because you only need artifacts for 1 character. But when you reach harder content like Floor 12 your hypercarry dps may be a lot lower than a reaction team because when you get more artifacts their damage as a team scales a lot better, if you want to reach that dps with a hypercarry you need a lot of investment and it scales slower
I’m not gonna lie the only hypercarry team I use is Wanderer and its entirely because he succeeds where Xiao fails as an Anemo DPS, that being he benefits from swirl and has more rapid/consistent damage output. But the main problem with hypercarry teams is that unless you cut the DPSes field time down slightly to majorly the buffs from their party members won’t last the whole duration of the carry units field time unless you have a fully optimized rotation, exception stands for Cyno who just has to have his burst cut short because no buffs last the full 18 seconds of his pactsworn pathclearer (I think that’s the name) state.
I mean Wanderer's skill only lasts 12 seconds so in a team of Faruzan Zhongli and Bennett you should have no problems keeping the buffs up. Same with Itto