I FINALLY Understand Talia's Plan! - Batman: Arkham City
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- It's taken me over 12 years, but something finally clicked with me. I finally understand what was going through Talia's mind when she saved Batman in the Steel Mill. It's a little contrived and a lot confusing, but I think it makes a lot more sense than just asking "Is she stupid?"
Music
Blood of the Demon
Gladiator
The Art of War
Damn... To think that Knight technically fixed the BIGGEST plothole on Arkham City...
Probably not even intentionally either
I guarantee you that it was 100% on accident
While introducing the worst plotholes in the series. It took 1 step forward and 20 steps back.
And not even the main game, but a DLC story too.
@@gothamwarriorIs the bombs payload still exposed🤔
You truly need to be the greatest Detective to figure this out
Greatest virgin
Lol, I figured this out my first time playing the game in 2011.
Yeah... he's man
@@jwaz500 That's really ironic from you to say😐
e*
Separately, you have Talia's mention of that night in Metropolis an unspecified time ago, Nyssa's talking about the importance of family, and Ra's's "proud of you" in the jail cell.
Even if Talia intends to rule the League, she needs to maintain a friendly relationship with her child's father. Assuming that Damian exists.
No he does not exist and forgive me for saying this but THANK YOU PRESENCE!!!
I think he does. Montreal just got their Damian game cancelled. You know the last game Montreal had cancelled? Suicide Squad, back closer to Arkham Origins- it was teased there at the end too.
Rocksteady made a Suicide Squad game and it’s been being worked on for years. Those old leaks about Superman being worked on were actually for Kill The Justice League.
This means Montreal gets their games cancelled when Rocksteady decides they want to do something.
Kill the justice league is here, Bruce is thought to be dead… But Kevin Conroy is also dead, so can they really resurrect the character now?
Yet we still have an Easter egg pointing to DECEMBER with a Bat logo, spelling out “HE RETURNS”.
Also it takes place in Metropolis, where Damien would’ve been conceived.
So what if Rocksteady plans for Damien to be used, and soon, and this was why Montreal just had a cancelled Damien project?
Jason was teased in Batman’s final message. Tim is implied to be dead or captured. It also says Tim is like a son to him.
So maybe Tim or Jason will be Batman, and deal with Damien Robin.
That or Damien is the new Batman.
@@TheVenomousBeetleI'll just hope that you are wrong, specially the "damian becomes batman" possibility
Not even batman put these pieces together. We have a new world's greatest detective.
To be fair, Arkham Batman is not the brightest of the many Batman iterations. Two Twists in one game and he didnt figure either of them out, until the answers were directly revealed to him
@@mareklonestar7053Yeah; if the Long Halloween's Batman was there with Arkham Detective-Vision, he would've figured out the twist during Funhouse fight.
@@lakshaykochhar6799 I feel like a lot sooner. The moment Harley said: "Oh, but its not really you isnt it?" A Batman, worthy of the title "worlds greatest detective" would at least have his suspicions and prepared accordingly. I know, because I already had my suspicions first time playing, without knowing the twist and I wouldnt call myself particularly smart. And even if he missed that, after seeing a Joker Corpse and simultanously getting ambushed by another Joker, he would have already figured it out, because I did and again, my intellect is average.
@@mareklonestar7053 You're right, but I am specifically talking about the Long Halloween's Batman, he kind of takes his sweet time to analyse every detail.
@@lakshaykochhar6799Hm, I need to read that comic again, but I feel like even he would figured it out at approximatley the same time. If there is a doppelganger, I think its just natural to assume Clayface is involved.
Talia does straight up say “Ignore him beloved, let him die”. She was definitely giving Batman one more chance to kill Joker.
Close enough 🤣
Great video. Regarding Talia's ultimate fate, I still like to think that she was resurrected with the Lazarus Pit since there was an empty chamber with her name in the morgue in Arkham Knight.
I see your comments on literally any batman Arkham video I watch including videos from small creators playing the games
@@felicedirienzo8754fully dedicated to the cause, I can’t do anything but respect that
Guess we won’t find out seeing how suicide squad kills the justice league glossed over 5 years of Batman’s history.
@@sleepy9102 If so, then this is a big disappointment.
Batman been real quiet about his greatest detective nickname ever since this video dropped
Tbf, it's kinda hard to Batman to say anything with that bullet in his skull 💀
Tbf, it's kinda hard to Batman to say anything with that bullet in his skull 💀
Over the course of Arkham City I think you see Batman’s moral code start to collapse, whether due to Joker’s blood or not. Whereas in Asylum Batman acts like a professional and seems to pull his punches with everyone except Zsasz, in City he seems to start enjoying the pain he inflicts (how he treats Penguin at the Museum, the beatdown on Freeze at the GCPD). And by the end of the game, he needs to be forced into saving the population of Arkham City over saving Talia. By the end of the game, he feels utterly alone, which may explain why he would have saved Joker, despite the fact that he was fine with them both dying before he knew about Joker poisoning innocents, and that a “failure to save” doesn’t count as a “kill” in Batman’s code. Batman is too distraught over the death of Talia to think rationally and let the Joker die, since the Joker is now, aside from Alfred, the oldest connection that Bruce has. Being Batman has basically broken him by this point, and the Joker poisoning only furthers his deterioration until he finally sees he’s not fit to be Gotham’s savior anymore in Knight.
Nice observations, dude! I just thought that Batman didn't see himself anymore fit to be the protector of Gotham because of the survivor's guilt from Joker and Talia deaths, never took into account those little details in Arkham City.
I guess that the reason why everyone didn't figure this out was because cutscenes provide very little to no focus on Batman's character, not to mention that the important cutscenes to figure this out are spread too far apart.
Fantastic insight
Don't forget the Harley dlc during arkham city and when he thought Robin died he must've been thinking about Jason
I think thats just an assumption and you're reading into things that aren't there. Batman is obviously just pushed towards his limits and he has limited time so he has less itme for bullshit.
11:23 "Her plan backfires"
LITERALLY
A backfire from back-firing
It would only be a literal backfire if a bullet came OUT of Talia's back and shot Joker lol.
@@HOTD108_Or if Talia's back ignited
I never thought there was any need for an explanation beyond she was trying to distract batman from stopping protocol 10. Testing him "one last time" certainly makes sense to the characters, though.
Omg I think you just casually figured out the REAL answer. Of course Talia was trying to distract Batman from stopping Protocol 10, she's devoted to her father's mission after all, and we know from the conversation Bruce has with Oracle that he ALMOST falls for it. Of course he doesn't and does stop Protocol 10, but only because Oracle talked him out of it and Talia doesn't know about Oracle, so from Talia's perspective it makes sense that she'd be fairly confident that her plan could work since she feels she knows Bruce so well (after their night in Metropolis). All the convoluted assumptions ClownPuncher makes in this video are fun and all, but realistically it's pretty flimsy and relies too heavily on a retcon established in Arkham Knight DLC no less, not to mention that Knight was written by different writers from the guy who wrote Asylum and City, so anything said in Knight can't be taken as what was intended by City's actual writer (Paul Dini).
I'm totally convinced that your original assumption is the correct answer.
Okay so Freeze acting on the offensive makes sense. He destroys one of the cure samples to reduce Joker’s chance of survival since he kidnapped Nora-if there’s only one sample, then it comes down between Batman and Joker.
BUT, why does Batman react so insensitively to Freeze asking him to rescue Nora. Immediately after the fight, Batman promises to find Nora-yet before the fight, he refuses to negotiate with Freeze and attempts to collect the cure.
This one bothers me a lot because there’s such an easy fix: have Batman say that he’ll find Nora, but they have to consider the greater good of Gotham first. Then have Freeze say there’s no greater good to him than his wife (it would be a neat callback to the “nothing but my Nora” line from AO.
But maybe I’m missing something you can uncover.
Self-preservation makes you desperate. My assumption is because Batman JUST had a near death experience and only survived thanks to the Blood of the Demon, he NEEDS that cure, and he could care less until he knows for certain he *has* the cure. When Harley steals it, he's knocked out of that desperation by cold hard facts, and now that his mind is clear, so too is his conscience.
@@MaddyDoesStuff but in that case, wouldn’t his desperation increase now that Harley has the cure?
Batman is very short on time. He would be dead at this point if not for Ras
@@kalkuttadrop6371 yeah but Ra’s pit gave him a few more hours to live. And assuming you stick to the main campaign, you give Mr. Freeze the cure like 30 minutes after getting Ra’s blood sample. Also after the Ra’s sequence, the toxin never has any effects on Batman outside of a brief Joker hallucination.
He didn't care about Nora much saving Gotham was his main goal.
The Jokler evil? Nuh uh
Yuh uh, if junkie not evil, why jocker mean to man even though man is hero?
@@LightballDVG bc Jokler is coo coo and man is also coo coo maybe
@@Monkey77790 We're all monsters. Even batman knows it. But he doesn't say it to Joker when he says they're alike.
If he did it might prevent a lot of destruction. Instead Batman leads by the example of "punch. Kaplow." What's the point if he's just going to lash out when he doesn't like what he hears? Even in batman beyond he's a broken man. Because he couldn't quite get there.
Death from Puss in Boots: The last wish is a better example. Don't need to touch someone to break them.
Take me on home, to the aslume
@@sethhawkins4152 never alone, in the aslume
Why did it take so long for him to understand Talia’s plan? Is he stupid?
More likely the idea for the video accord to him , ether way no need to call him stupid
@@asdasasdas3476 the "is he stupid?" is a meme on the batmanarkham subreddit
Lmaoooo😂
@@asdasasdas3476ain't no way you watch clownpuncher videos and you never heard of the Arkham subbreddit💀
I’ve heard about it I just never bothered to look into it
Your explanation is quite brilliant and shows the breadth and depth of your Arkham knowledge!
One thing I always found ridiculous was the plan to open up similar prison cities in Metropolis and Keystone. I mean, by Strange’s own admission he could not keep Arkham City under control and prevent the inmates from acquiring firearms, so that he had no choice but to massacre the inmates before they led an attack on Gotham. Even by his own false account of what happened, the plan turned out to be an unmitigated disaster: why would any other city possibly want to adopt that model for themselves?
To be fair Strange starts the game saying no one is untouchable and ends the game saying he's untouchable. So I am sure he in some way truly believed the plan would work. Even if it wouldn't in reality.
actually Strange Kept Arkham under control. but the thing was For protocol 10 to have happened. it is stated that unless the immates were planning a massive riot. Protocol 10 wouldn't have occurred as it was a Last Resort.
so in order for strange to let the last resort happen. he willingly gave The factions in the Arkham Turf war the devices they use against batman, He gave penguin the guns and firearms. the night vision goggles and jammer backpacks. same as the joker. Clown even stated in his video about the tapes that strange was behind everything in arkham city.
he was behind Giving Weapons to the immates in order for them to kill eachother and cause the turf war that would eventually lead to protocol 10, He Gave Nora to the joker so freeze would have to be blackmailed into doing a cure. He Gave Cobblepot the knowledge of Rats within his Crew. lastly Gave Catwoman the knowledge of where the tyger vault blueprints were in harvey's office. and told Two face that catwoman would breach it.
all in order to get events set in motion to his plans. if the man alone did this type of shit in gotham, imagine what he could've done with a Arkham City Type Program on Cities like Metropolis and keystone with LexLuthor Backing him
@@ScoutTrooperMan That's not what he means. Of course we know Protocol 10 being brought about was by Hugo's own planning but in order for it to be sanctioned by the city council the initial super prison project would need to have been considered a failure. After this no city will allow Strange to open up another one. What makes it a bit of a contrivance is the idea that other cities will have seen how horribly the idea was and them still allowing Hugo to do it will've made no sense.
@@SavageAcorn Knowing How Hugo Manipulated Sharp Behind the scenes since Before Joker's Riot at arkham asylum.
is it even Far-fetched the man couldn't do the same trick? We are talking about a man Whom Brainwashed a Entire Private Military Firm into becoming His Private Soldiers to the point they feel no fear whatsoever and even refer to him as "master" and Groomed the eventual Mayor so well that when Strange Died Sharp killed himself in custody
It isn't Far from reality that Strange could set this same Exact Scheme in order to open a Arkham City MegaPrison on Keystone and Metropolis. Regardless if According to the Gotham city council. the Arkham City project was met with failure
@@ScoutTrooperMan Yes, this is all true. What I am saying is that Strange pretended to the city council that he had failed utterly to stem the flow of guns into Arkham City: the fact that he was actually providing the arms makes him more culpable. My point is that, even if we accept the BS Strange was saying, how could anyone ever approve a similar prison being constructed near their city?
I think there's still the oversight of Talia not questioning how Joker looks so healthy all of a sudden considering she was the one who intercepted the cure before it would reach Joker.
It could be be safe to say she had no clue what joker was looking like at the time, clayface might have just said the disease is only infecting his insides along with some fake coughing, he is a great actor to be fair so I don't think its a reach to think he could trick Talia.
@@myozx2112 Honestly, good point but another question i have is: Why Talia didn't kill Harley Quinn too? I mean, she's a criminal as worse as the Joker and while you can argue she got gaslighted by the Joker, the League isn't that merciful.
@@myozx2112 except she knew exactly what the effects did to someone externally because she saw Bruce's face when he was about to collapse and die from it.
@@marcelosoares7148If Talia planned to convince Bruce to change his ways like this theory and others say, only killing Joker would be the way. Only one. And the worst one. If she killed Quinn it would be two and then there's less chance Talia convinces him.
@clipsdelosmajes Well, she could just kill her and not tell him. If he became the head of the league, Quinn would probably die anyway.
Good explanation, thank you. We can't blame Talia for what she wants to be done, because Ra's raised her like that. However, Bruce and Talia cared for each other and they both proof it. It's sad she died(main reason why Batman in depression/hardly changed in Arkham knight and DLC for Arkham city)
I think its kind of weird that talia doesnt realize that something weird is going on with the fake joker. She saw how bruces face was a few hours ago and she has the cure that harley[probably jokers most trusted goon(, so harley would be the only one sent over to gcpd)] stole and she doesnt question how healthy joker looks.
That also bugs me, but I think the explanation might be simple. She doesn't know that there's only one vial of cure. She might have thought that there were two, Harley stole both and managed to give one to The Joker and kept the other one for whatever The Joker planned to blackmail Batman with the cure.
@juanaguilera804 Yea fair point but i dont think that Joker would trust harley or anyone with the cure to save batman
@@Tservator I mean, yeah, probably. But, the point relies on what Talia knew, and I'm not sure she actually knew The Joker that well (I mean, she obviously didn't when she fell for the Clayface trick and got shot by the real one, but you get what I mean)
@sbr9598 The demons daughter would not do something so blatantly dangerous without taking every possibility in mind
Honestly, even if it WASN'T a way for Talia to test Batman's worthiness one last time, she's still setting herself up as an alternate bait. Like you said, her logic was that Batman woulda been distracted with trying to save her and thus let Protocol 10 carry on, as per her dad's wishes, but he focused on Protocol 10 instead, which absolutely backfired. It's literally just bad luck for Talia that Batman didn't just pursue Joker then and there, or that there's a Clayface doppleganger.
The funny thing is, the only reason this logic works is specifically cuz the game is PEGI 16. If it were R-rated, Talia and Batman woulda IMMEDTIATELY noticed that "Joker" wasn't gushing blood out when he was stabbed. He'd probably bleed mushy clay instead. The plot was saved literally cuz of an age rating.
...But Strange bleeds.
Your logic for the lack of blood falls apart because Hugo is stabbed and bleeds in the same game. The lack of blood was just a sign to show something was off. Much like in the beginning when Clayface joker is perfectly healthy looking, only for Joker to reveal he poisoned Batman’s blood to be disfigured.
@@JohnWilliams-wl9pxHe means blood on the sword. Not just a stain.
@@clipsdelosmajes You got it. Thank you.
The part that always confused me was the situation going from "Talia is leading Joker to the Lazarus Pit" to "Talia is Joker's hostage and he plans to kill her"
Finally, he worked it out. Our Savour Has Returned!
I personally figured she wanted Bruce to see the consequences of not killing scum like The Joker, the premise of an immortal Joker is terrifying, it’d convince me to kill him.
I’ve always wondered why Batman and or Gordon never went forward with the chronicles of Arkham to stop Sharp from becoming mayor he literally confessed to murder and malpractice in the files.
I mean, Sharp said in the game that Strange had very powerful friends, which could mean The League of Assassins or corrupt politicians and judges besides them. Either way, it's likely that either the elections were rigged from the beginning or that any atempt of trying to take down Sharp's campaign was shut down by "Strange's friends"
What I don't understand is why Talia didn't see the twist reveal coming, or was questioning 'cured' Joker. She stole the cure from Harley, Joker should still be sick, but she can clearly see him looking cured and he definitely acts like he is. Shouldn't she be confused by this fact? She has ZERO reaction to anything related to 'Joker' being cured (or Joker being 'cured').
She probably already figured out that there were two cures and that they were withholding the second cure from Batman, which is probably what she meant when she said “Harley Quinn stole it for him (Joker)” and not that Joker wasn’t cured yet
@@kazombie9784 untrue, when Joker does his TV screen speech in front of the theater, she says: ".. Let him die", knowing that he didn't take the cure. Joker follows up by pretending he did. She doesn't question it...
@@leme3503 maybe she was already planning to kill him when he took her to monarch theatre (idk just guessing)
@@kazombie9784 "Ignore him beloved, let him die" is a reference to her going to kill him..? Right after which Joker says something in reference to him being cured? Yeah no, I highly doubt that... That does not make any sense.
@@leme3503 I mean like “ignore him and let me kill him” I know I’m reaching but it’s fun to speculate
10:00 it is also a lot of innocent people in arkham city that were enemies to strange
By the end of this game I was firmly in the mindset of Batman, so that's pretty much how I interpreted it as well.
The caped crusader doesn't spell it out, but his tone gives some clues as to what he thinks.
Mmm never smelt a fresh arkham city video 🤌🏼
“You fell for the fake joker gag Talia”
Thanks clown puncher for explaining Talia‘s plan. This is always the only thing that
Doesn’t make sense in this game,and it’s all ways been my favorite game but now I love it even more.
My only point of contention with your theory is that it's not entirely clear whether Talia knew about Ra's wish to bequeath the leadership of the League to her in the event of Batman's refusal to join, so it's not necessarily a win-win situation for her.
Also, how did ClownPuncher figure out the lore reason? Is he smart?
Okay so by now you have the power to make sense out of my life
Bigger question: If Talia had the cure and knew Harley hadn’t gotten the cure to joker yet. How did she not know something was off when joker was healthy?
That’s legit what I just realised when I reached the end of the video
I don‘t get how people complain about why Clayface turned into the Joker. Like it‘s so obvious that Joker wanted to be regarded as strong so his men won‘t lose moral, it‘s not even subtle
Makes total sense and adds another layer of depth to the best Batman Arkham game
Again congratulations on 100k, great video and i have said this on stream before, try and explain how the Harley tapes in asylum and the origins mad love is canon! I would love to see a theory on that!
I kinda knew that was her plan but not in that much detail but good job clownpuncher139 (detective) Batman would be proud.
Dang, you're an actual detective, holy crap
Oh my gosh. So thats why harley was tied up and joker didn't take the cure. Talia made sure he never got it by stopping harley. How did I not realize this?
If Talia stole the cure, wouldn't she know that joker couldn't have been healed and shouldn't look so healthy? She is also a trained master assasin or something, so why doesn't she think something is wrong when she stabs joker and no blood comes out? I feel like Talia not knowing joker is clayface still depends on her being stupid.
A good point but when people say this about arkham batman or Talia, they gotta admit that this is one stressful night that takes place over hours and Batman literally takes downs hundreds of goons and half a dozen supervillians
And that’s the result of playing Arkham city drunk
Hugo Strange was the one going to be the leader of the League of Assassins but Ras saw more potential in Batman.
Joker and Clayface didn't foil Talia. Alfred did. Batman was going to look past Protocol 10 in favor of a person who hadn't been trying to kill him on sight all night right up until Alfred sabotaged the tracker.
"Forgive me Master Bruce, but I cannot allow you to tread the dark path of the simp."
The one issue is that Talia has the cure and should be aware that Joker isn't cured yet. Even if she didn't know Clayface was involved, surely she should be suspecting something right?
This was a pretty interesting explanation, sure god only knows how much of these Rocksteady actually intended, but still, they do make sense, and at the very least they make for neat headcannons.
Talia’s death always bugged me too! I just finished ALL of Arkham Knight…or so I thought. I did not find that tape. Now it makes sense, thank you!
I think Talia is so used to fucking with Bruce she just does it without thinking about it
Congrats on getting 100K, again! 🥳 Love your videos, you deserve it man!
Aha now it makes sense why Harley is tied up
I'm so happy to have found you're channel Clown Puncher (I was to use the first to letters but then I realized what it would look like and you even mentioned don't do it.)
you just broke my brain again with another theory, holy crap. maybe you are batman. def a detective
Awesome job on the video ClownPuncher
11:25 “…her plan backfires.” Coincidentally, she’s taken out by Joker firing a shot to her back.
Only plot hole remaining is if Talia intercepted the cure. Why was she not surprised to see joker look healthy. She saw Bruce’s face all messed up from the blood poison. And then sees Joker who was sicker for longer look perfectly fine.
That its simply because Talia doesn't know that Joker is ill. All that she knows is that Batman is ill and he needs a cure but Joker is stopping him from getting said cure. I don't remember Bruce sayng Talia that Joker is is ill throughout the game so i think that that's the explanation
Duuuude i never knew about the tape in the hospital! That's crazy detective work
Congrats on 100,000 I’ve been watching you since 5th grade 2021
My first reaction to this video was literally”yessss!!” Also congrats on 100k subs
I prefered Origins over this because the plot felt like padding and cheap twists but you managed to salvage it so good job man
I never even questioned this before, great detective work
Great vid! I agree, Talia's actions make a lot more sense in this light.
That said... Joker's actions in the final act of the game make NO DAMN SENSE to me. The cure is right under his nose, and he doesn't even notice. And he has every reason to check.
(I left this comment on your community post, but I'll leave it here too.)
Apparently Joker thought Bats took the cure off Harley. It never even crossed his mind that Talia did. Okay, fine.
But Bats is clearly still ill, and still asking for the cure, during their fight in Steelmill - AFTER Harley has gone missing. I guess MAYBE Joker didn't notice that Bats was ill, (and Clayface never was that bright) and assumed that Bats was only asking about Joker's apparent second cure (i.e. the perfectly healthy clay-Joker). A weird assumption, but okay (and the dialogue REALLY doesn't support that assumption).
Or MAYBE he thought Harley was still on her way, and Bats had simply gotten there first. And... what? Bats managed to apprehend Harley sometime between being trapped under rubble and then waylaid with Protocol 10? Okay, I know Batman's efficient, and Joker knows that more than anyone. (But recall that Batman thinks that Joker has the cure at this point, and Joker knows this - see the dialogue in the Steelmill.)
Even putting both those complaints aside, that still means Joker never had anyone search Talia while she was in his custody. Let alone that she was an unknown element until recently, and a certain cure just went missing. Let alone that she's a trained assassin, and probably has throwing knives hidden behind throwing knives up her sleeves. No, lets just leave her unchecked. A brief search would have revealed the EXACT cure that Joker had spent the entire game chasing after.
So near as I can tell, the mastermind clown prince of crime got himself killed through pure stupidity. And that kills the Arkham City story for me, sadly.
THANK YOU!!! It makes absolutely no sense how they act with the cure. Talia has every reason to be suspicious already knowing that, as she says, “Harley Quinn stole it for him; I took it back.” So she has to know Joker is looking for the cure. And then Joker, as you said, clearly knows that Harley didn’t get back with the cure and has been missing for hours. And then this mystical ninja lady who is closely connected with Batman just happens to show up and they don’t even consider that??? It doesn’t make any sense.
Edit: also, something else that doesn’t make sense to me: what was Joker/Clayface’s plan if Talia showed up even a little bit later to the fight? It certainly looks like Clayface is about to kill Batman at the end of the fight, but obviously Joker wouldn’t stand for that because he is the only one allowed to kill Batman (we even see this in the Clayface fight when Joker gets nervous when Batman takes damage). Second, if Clayface kills Batman, there’s no cure. The fact that Batman asks where the cure is at the start of the Clayface Joker funhouse fight would make this 100% clear to Clayface, so if he kills Batman, there’s still no cure and no leads. I really don’t understand what was supposed to happen there.
Joker didnt care about the cure once he figured out talia wasent lying about the lazrus pit its only clay face overacting who points a gun at batman asking for the cure while joker aimed a sniper gun at talia he was also about to jump into the pit untill batman ruined his plan
@@jd2792 If that's true, then Joker's plan makes even less sense.
Joker lured Batman there, to the theatre, directly above the Lazarus Pit. If he hadn't done that, then he would have had all the time in the world to march on in there and claim immortality from the pit - and then lure Batman to him AFTER he had claimed immortality. He had no reason to wait with how close to death he was.
No, he lured Batman there because he still thought that Bats had the cure. (Though why that was remotely important to him with access to a Lazarus Pit is anyone's guess.)
Every main character in the game is actually Clayface including Batman
Its incredible how unflinching batman is in his no kill rule, especially with the joker. He killed Jason AND Talia AND crippled Barbara. I doubt Gordon would hold back if Joker did that to him, I'm surprised he hadn't done it when Joker CRIPPLED HIS DAUGHTER
Yo this bugged me for so long and now it all mostly makes sense. If this was truly what the writers intended I just wish they gave some more hints. I get trusting the intelligence of the audience but damn lmao. Anyways good vid
Congratulations you finally cross 100K I am so much happy bro and Keep making videos and never give up ❤
Excellent work as always man. Love watching your stuff!
Amazing Video! However There is one thing that still confuses me about Arkham City’s story. How did Clayface get into Arkham City when Batman said he wasn’t supposed to be in there? And if he somehow snuck in, why? The Arkham City Story labeled “Clayface” says he was on the run from Stranger and his guards, which implies he didn’t want to be put in Arkham City. So if that’s the case, why would he sneak in? It’s always bothered me that we never get a solid explanation, and the closest we get is a quip from Clayface before the fight starts. Anyways, I love your content, keep it up man!
Congratz on 100k! Super grateful to have found your channel. Love the videos man. Good luck!
The thing is that Joker does not really want Batman dead. What would he do then? Play his games with the cops who have no chance at defeating him? Joker is a Dark Souls player, he would rather lose over and over than have an easy win.
I don't think it's even necessary to get into the politics of the League of Assassins. Talia craved for Bruce's attention, so offering immortality to Joker (Batman's arch-nemesis) was her twisted way of inserting herself into Bruce's priorities again. In a way, she was firing back at Bruce after Bruce dumped her earlier in the game.
Finally someone who actually says the games not perfect but still a great masterpiece!
Thanks to Alfred protocol 10 was stopped
congrats on 100k
I thought this was obvious. I never questioned why Talia would let her self be taken hostage by Joker.
Honestly, this makes total sense
I honestly just never thought about this. Just weird comic logic to move along the story. But this made me question it, then you answered it
I say the biggest issue is how Talia couldn't work out out it was at least a joker imposter, if she took the cure she sgould know rhe joker is still sick, so the fresh one was a fake at least
Dude, I'm impressed. This is a good theory.
You hit the lightbulb when you found this theory
The Clayface/Joker thing was so that Joker could hold onto power in Arkham City. If everyone knew he was dying and how bad it actually was, then most of his followers would desert, Penguin and Two-Face would sniff weakness and probably move onto his territory more agressively, etc.
It also allows Talia to be killed off, not because she is stupid or underestimated Joker, but because of something that she could not reasonably figure out.
Thank goodness, this makes so much more sense, personally Arkham city is my least favorite game in the series but this plot explaination definitely improves it and my opinion along with it.
You deserve an award for this
Here is a real challenge explain Luke Skywalker's plan to rescue Han from Return Of The Jedi.
Great explanation! This theory makes a lot of sense.
Damn Joker blew her back out
Me when I have to do mental gymnastics to avoid admitting the game I like has a plot hole
that actually is make sense
And this is one of the many reasons why when Dini stopped being the main writer, the Arkham series story fell tf off . Even the biggest assumed plot holes still have an explanation buried deep . That's the sign of a real writer who cares
Sir Lord God ClownPuncher
One thing I don't quite understand is why Talia spared Harley. Why did she tie her up? Wouldn't killing Harley be easier? I mean, she tried to kill the Joker, so why not Harley? After all, she is pretty evil. My only guess is that maybe Talia took pity on Harley? I don't know. It doesn't really add up to me.
11:28 - she had the cure. Wouldn't she know joker wasn't cured?
I think it's because Joker was in hiding during this time, and since no one besides batman and harley has seen him. She mat have assumed it was all a bluff like batman did.
Glad someone figured it out I was so confused
It only took 4 million playthrough and mroe millions of clown punch to figure out why hot ninja girl no stab jonkler, maybe she is not so stupid after all
I don't go along with this. Talia knew Joker didn't have the cure, she still believed that he was on death's door.
I need to preface my comment with this: I really enjoy your content. I watch you regularly and I know that when you post an Arkham video it's gonna be a good watch. I say this because I never commented on any of your videos and I don't want you to take what I'm about to write the wrong way
I just realised there's one small detail in your theory and in the story in general that may need some additional explanation:
Why wasn't Talia more suspicious of healthy Joker? She's got the cure and we can quite safely assume she knew she intercepted it before Joker could take it.
This detail hit me the moment you said Talia couldn't have seen Clayface coming because who could have (aside from Batman if he knew what she knew) - and while I agree she couldn't have expected this, I believe she should've been expecting something.
The best explanation I can come up with is that she suspected something was up but didn't act on it because that would give away that she's got the cure - after all who else could've known Joker was still ill. But seeing how she believed she killed Joker, she must've also believed that Joker was somehow faking being cured which I cannot imagine how it would work but then again I have the knowledge of two Jokers Talia didn't have
Also as a sidenote no blood when Talia impaled Joker should be a dead giveaway for Batman that that was an impostor of clay variety. I know that for most of us the trick worked because despite the fact we should expect blood based on Hugo's death, we were still blindsided by real Joker revealing himself but Batman should've been smarter than that.
Good comment. Batman was out of it after kicking ass for hours straight
My take is that Talia and Bruce didn't notice that lack of blood because they were distracted. Bruce is coming to terms with the fact that his lover kills people and won't be convinced to stop. Talia, as well, is having to face that Bruce will never lead the league. They're both realising that their relationship is doomed, and because their focus is on that, they take their eyes off the ball.
TLDR: Love made them stupid.
Keep it up on your work and this video and channel
I love this video and channel
Thanks you for your video and channel
I love Batman Arkham City
1.Kill the joker
2.Bang Talia
3.Turn the league of assassins to crime fighters who only kill on occasion
Sounds like a plan to me🤷
Congrats for hitting 100k subscribers
Congratulations for 100000 subs. Maybe do the story problems on why the other heroes didn't help Bruce in arkham knight.
Calling this before watching the video - Talia was basically desperate to have Batman join her as the Head of The League. So desperate, she basically wanted to make Batman think that if he won't take up the mantle, she will instead give it to Joker. And Batman knows how dangerous an immortal Joker would be. Which would force him to give in to Talia's wishes in order to prevent the Lazarus Pit from falling into the wrong hands.
I know you're probably just turning a phrase at the end saying you need a morale boost, but honestly, are you ok? Love your videos ❤❤❤
And here I thought your theory was going to be about the real Joker hired Talia to draw Clayface Joker away from Batman because Clayface wants nothing more than to kill Batman. Yet, real Joker still wants Batman alive. And like you've said before, Joker KNOWS Batman. And knows for a fact that he'd get out somehow. This explanation is better than mine. Thanks for clearing it up!
Although, I do have one thing on my mind that I keep questioning and hope you could explain that too. How does Batman or Talia not notice that after Clayface Joker is stabbed in the back, there's no visible blood from the body?
I mean, we saw when Hugo Stange was stabbed by Ra's, he bled pretty rapidly. But the only visible indicator on the sword in Clayface Joker's case was something that was blue. Yet, Batman or Talia never questioned that or the fact that Clayface (Which yes, I'm aware they didn't know it was Clayface) doesn't bleed. Unless that was a contributor for Batman to put the pieces together to realize something was off.
My favorite in the saga is Arkham asylum