The correct track is the one with the colored lines and the better bonuses. It’s the outer track when around the old world and the inner track when around the new world.
I don't agree that the first time should be race mode either. I think for your first game play points mode _maybe_ without the scoring cards. I think for a new player the game ending suddenly is much worse than any possible problems that come from getting your heads around points mode. Most of my opinions about the game I already said in my comment on your earlier tutorial video. That said, your discussion really brought out a problem I had with this game that I hadn't realized, which is a disconnect between the play of the game and the ending of it being kinda disappointing. The thing that's actually satisfying is getting everyone off the old planet, whereas most of the things I am being scored for are not that satisfying to do. Overall I liked the game a lot, but not enough to get it.
I too am starting to lean towards teaching points mode (or at the very least the action cards) in a first play. I taught it to someone in race mode, no action cards and they bounced hard and did not want to play the second game. That was my first experience of that after several teaches but it did have me second guessing the approach. This one is definitely one for those who like the exploring more than the ending.
Unfortunately most eurogames are games that minimize player interaction and you often feel like you play for yourself. For this reason, the two games that got my attention and bought are "Architect of the West kingdom" and "Raiders of the North Sea". In the podcast, a couple of other games are mentioned as a reference point, one being "Underwater cities". There was another one as well, something wtih like empire etc but I can't find it again without listening to the entire podcast. Thanks.
It's on my list. I love most of Suchy's games (my Underwater Cities game is fully upgraded with all the pretty bits). Still have to play Messina so I'm a little behind.
Messina is awesome! I’m a broken record on this one but I’ve really enjoyed it everytime I’ve played it. Though I only recommend it at 2p which can be a pro or con for some.
I’m sure each of us will feel differently on this one. For my part, I actually think the theme makes it more accessible than your typical heavy euro. I think the way the mechanics tie into the “story” you are playing out will make this accessible to more medium weight gamers who are interested in a heavier or longer affair than they might typically pursue. I personally got it to play at home because of this (tho we haven’t played it yet so I don’t know if I’m right.) I do still recommend a two play commitment or start with the action cards so they can experience the more free-ing elements of the game.
@@anastasia_FT Thanks! Does it seems more or less meaty/complex/long than Ark Nova? That’s probably our most complex game to date. We play 2 player. p.s. Love your commentary and these in depth looks at games you’ve played! You guys are so good and this really is a unique format that I love.
Will you be doing a learn while playing for City of the Living by Trick or Treat Studios? Super looking forward to that game and since you covered Halloween so well I figured there might be a chance?
Was looking forward to this, but lots of faults, mainly it’s a solo game. The modern and disturbing prevalence of mps games has saved me thousands of dollars. hoping it could match underwater cities, but no. Suchy has been mostly fails for us. Prodigals, pulsar, shipyard, praga. I still have Messina to play, which I only got because it was $10, but not looking forward to that ‘very likely’ being disappointing as well.
The first time I played was with all modules and "expansions". The game ended up being very math heavy. Personally, I don't like the area control module and would leave that one out. Simultaneously, I find the game to be too repetitive, random, lacking interaction and liner to be something I would like to keep playing. The game is also one round too long, since it is easy to maximize your scoring of all objectives. Maybe what the game would need is a unique start so that the population and factories you need to transport is different from game to game. The tech tree randomization is also infuriating since you can get them in bad position so that your option are limited during play, most likely making it easy to ignore them. The action cards that allows you to convert 2 energy to 3 resources in the new world is also arguably broken if you get them early. I would recommend removing the discount on them so they become more fair.
Really enjoy this podcast and the long form discussion on ONE game 👍
Since you discussed it, what *is* the correct track for the two player game? The rule book is indeed a bit vague on this.
The correct track is the one with the colored lines and the better bonuses. It’s the outer track when around the old world and the inner track when around the new world.
I don't agree that the first time should be race mode either. I think for your first game play points mode _maybe_ without the scoring cards. I think for a new player the game ending suddenly is much worse than any possible problems that come from getting your heads around points mode.
Most of my opinions about the game I already said in my comment on your earlier tutorial video. That said, your discussion really brought out a problem I had with this game that I hadn't realized, which is a disconnect between the play of the game and the ending of it being kinda disappointing. The thing that's actually satisfying is getting everyone off the old planet, whereas most of the things I am being scored for are not that satisfying to do.
Overall I liked the game a lot, but not enough to get it.
I too am starting to lean towards teaching points mode (or at the very least the action cards) in a first play. I taught it to someone in race mode, no action cards and they bounced hard and did not want to play the second game. That was my first experience of that after several teaches but it did have me second guessing the approach. This one is definitely one for those who like the exploring more than the ending.
Unfortunately most eurogames are games that minimize player interaction and you often feel like you play for yourself. For this reason, the two games that got my attention and bought are "Architect of the West kingdom" and "Raiders of the North Sea". In the podcast, a couple of other games are mentioned as a reference point, one being "Underwater cities". There was another one as well, something wtih like empire etc but I can't find it again without listening to the entire podcast. Thanks.
It’s called Empire’s End. Not sure if it’s out yet (it was a KS) but we did a pod on it earlier this year. Thanks for listening!
It's on my list. I love most of Suchy's games (my Underwater Cities game is fully upgraded with all the pretty bits). Still have to play Messina so I'm a little behind.
Messina is awesome! I’m a broken record on this one but I’ve really enjoyed it everytime I’ve played it. Though I only recommend it at 2p which can be a pro or con for some.
I know you said it’s not really complex, but because of the issues you identified, should only heavy gamers try this one?
I’m sure each of us will feel differently on this one. For my part, I actually think the theme makes it more accessible than your typical heavy euro. I think the way the mechanics tie into the “story” you are playing out will make this accessible to more medium weight gamers who are interested in a heavier or longer affair than they might typically pursue. I personally got it to play at home because of this (tho we haven’t played it yet so I don’t know if I’m right.) I do still recommend a two play commitment or start with the action cards so they can experience the more free-ing elements of the game.
@@anastasia_FT Thanks! Does it seems more or less meaty/complex/long than Ark Nova? That’s probably our most complex game to date. We play 2 player. p.s. Love your commentary and these in depth looks at games you’ve played! You guys are so good and this really is a unique format that I love.
Enjoyed the podcast. Hmm, was really interested in this game, but the multi-player solitaire aspect doesn't work for me. Thanks for the video.
Will you be doing a learn while playing for City of the Living by Trick or Treat Studios? Super looking forward to that game and since you covered Halloween so well I figured there might be a chance?
I don't know, they haven't reached out to me about that game yet. It is possible though, I've made videos for several of their games so far.
Was looking forward to this, but lots of faults, mainly it’s a solo game. The modern and disturbing prevalence of mps games has saved me thousands of dollars. hoping it could match underwater cities, but no. Suchy has been mostly fails for us. Prodigals, pulsar, shipyard, praga. I still have Messina to play, which I only got because it was $10, but not looking forward to that ‘very likely’ being disappointing as well.
The first time I played was with all modules and "expansions". The game ended up being very math heavy. Personally, I don't like the area control module and would leave that one out. Simultaneously, I find the game to be too repetitive, random, lacking interaction and liner to be something I would like to keep playing. The game is also one round too long, since it is easy to maximize your scoring of all objectives. Maybe what the game would need is a unique start so that the population and factories you need to transport is different from game to game. The tech tree randomization is also infuriating since you can get them in bad position so that your option are limited during play, most likely making it easy to ignore them. The action cards that allows you to convert 2 energy to 3 resources in the new world is also arguably broken if you get them early. I would recommend removing the discount on them so they become more fair.
This is why I’m so bad at the scoring… I can’t maximize my scoring objectives even with the 4 rounds we are given! Haha. Thanks for listening!