Thank you for sharing this. I experienced this culture while being in the mission field from my sending congregation. Some laws changed in the country I was working and some things we had been doing became ilegal. I was pressured to skirt the laws. When I refused I was told I was having a mental breakdown. I was scapegoated in many ways and eventually cut off. I rejoice for this experience because I had to truly trust God more than ever to care for my family, my ministry, and myself. God is faithful and I saw how each person reflected the mindset of evil people in the Bible. Right now I am leaving a church due to some of the same toxic patterns. I am coaching an elder in the church who also sees the problem. May God heal us and our toxic church cultures. May we al be humble before God and truly reflect Christ.
It’s so sad! We are servants and have seen all this and experienced it. You learn quickly to stay silent and keep head down. When we were in a house church we didn’t have these toxic issues.
My husband and I became that healing pocket. The church did not want our healing pocket, and we were KICKED OUT, just in the way you guys described earlier.
Fantastic video! Leaders who bring these very troubling issues to light are the true heroes of the church. After listening to countless videos and stories like these , I just have to say. I think it's time we start calling cases of church abuse what they really are. And that's the devil seating himself in the temple of God causing the "desolation" of the church .Church abuse cases are nothing more than the devil impersonating himself as a pastor or angel of light and causing havoc on the flock..If a leader isn't willing to repent or acknowledge he did wrong, we have to ask ourselves does the Spirit of God live in him?
Yeah. I was basically called a “witch” after leaving a toxic church by the pastor after calling out his treatment of a young person and his mom. Needless to say, that pastor is no longer in leadership there.
Toxic? I got toxic. What do you when your family doctor is also your elder, your landlord, your friend, your banker, your mentor, your employer, and your babysitter? When I was finally shunned, this man adopted, yes, adopted my mentally ill daughter as a married adult, still being her doctor, and I haven't seen her or my grandchildren in ten years! I lost everything! I had no credit history, no job history, no rental history, no friends, I am not even acknowledged as a living person. All because I spoke out about the abuse of my grandchildren!
I hate the fact that if you have a concern about something within the church you’re attending, you get shut down and made to feel that you’re attacking their leadership. You’re gaslighted into thinking it’s all in your head, and that their pastor is a good man. They tell you things like you must attend the church long enough to know the pastor’s heart. I would like to know where a statement like that is found in the Bible. Also, if you can never get a private meeting with the pastor or other elders in that church then it’s a huge red flag.
Why encourage people to stay in a church that hurt us? We cannot heal where the wound occurred, the trust necessary for healing is gone. Go to a police officer and file a report. Please! We think the church will protect us, and it does not want us to exist. Report, and let the law deal with it. It cannot be worse than the shunning that comes from people we believed loved us.
So much truth in what you guys shared. It is leaders of both sexes and elders and ministers who create this culture. You described our experience which led to us having to leave our church of almost a decade. Fear of loss of community and being marginilised and villified by church leadership is hurtful and damaging to ones sense of belonging and acceptance. This silences and alienates a believer and denies them true fellowship within that body of Christ. Best to leave and find yourself a group of believers who are full of grace and truth.
Last night just before going to bed I discovered you had a youtube channel! It looks like it is new! I am so glad to see this. I hope you put a lot of your training on here. I would love to see you have Diane Langberg involved in some of your interviews.
If there is others receiving same treatment go to the police file a report get his platform shut down he isn't operating in the right spirit sounds like a narcist pastor abusing the flock
Thank you for the excellent work you do. We are grateful for reports that your organization has completed. It is fair amd thorough and has uncovered some tragic events that have happened at Churches here in Pennsylvannia and sime recommendatiins for churches whose leaders have failed to protect the youngest and most vulnerable communicant members of a church in Philly.
One church our pastor was having affair and we exposed it to church. (Long story how we found out) well we left the church bc they stood by him and kept him in pulpit bc his family ran the church. We were then completely demonized and called all sorts of demon names. He is still in leadership and the women he had affair with was also destroyed by him and she lost everything. I have so many stories like this sadly! 😢
@@jamessheffield4173 Please don't be afraid because that means you are letting THEM rule your life. Your grandkids deserve to be in a good church. Take care.
And it’s getting a little weird. This is a peaceful small town where nothing ever happens and violence is rare. This church has only about 40 members tops yet they have put in an extensive security camera system and they have an armed guard at the door standing guard during the service when all they really need to do is keep the door locked. I wonder what they are so afraid of.
This is great! Thanks for speaking out about this and helping the church recognize it. Other good resources are Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Oakley and Humphreys and When Narcissism Comes to Church: Healing Your Community From Emotional and Spiritual Abuse by DeGroat.
What kind of abuse are we talking about? There's subtle where private concerns are then "preached" about in a sermon. Or blatant abuse such as sexual? There's also gossip, so I wished you had brought this up as many listening don't have words to express why they felt abused . Sexual is another thing, pretty explicit.
There is just such a church here in central Florida the Senior pastor is extremely narcissistic fired many who questioned his choices such as plagerizing his messages and a lot of other egregious acts. We've all been slandered gossiped about betrayed and fired. He then writes resignation letters which are complete fabrication and reads them from the pulpit. He also has security spying on staff volunteers and members as well as trolling social media. He also forces staff etc to visit his appointed therapist who then violates hippa and shares all of the sessions with this S.P. .
I have a preacher who yells at me red faced and black-eyed whenever I mess up in anyway. And it seems that he rubs my nose in my mistakes like a puppy dog. I feel a lot less than a Christian now.
Get away from him, that’s abuse, domination and manipulation. It’s NOT LOVE! He’s messed up and broken probably has child hood trauma as well. I haven’t seen a lot of that in England.
That’s why the greatest commandment is LOVE, LOVE GOD LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF… LOVE WILL NOT ABUSE OTHERS , LOVE IS PATIENT, LOVE IS KIND , LOVE IS GENTLE, LOVE IS MERCIFUL, LOVE IS POLITE, LOVE DOES NO EVIL TO HER NEIGHBOR, ETC ❤CHOOSE LOVE CHOOSE FORGIVENESS, LET ALL THAT YOU DO BE DONE IN LOVE 😍 ❤ LOVE YOU BODY OF CHRIST LET UA ALL BY CHOOSING TO FORGIVE AND WALK IN LOVE BE HEALED . Jesus was so abused rejected mistreated beaten , but he entrusted himself to the father … I pray for abusive pastors some don’t even know they are abusing people, or are narcissistic, scary
A narcissistic pastor should and can be removed not tolerated. The due process of Matt 18 needs to be applied or this sin of pride will leaven in the church. It doesn't honor God to create TOV and ignore sin.
They use either their good deeds as a promition or their childhood experiences as excuse! Psychotherapists help them supporting the narrative that everyone is victim. In these groups they do not deserve forgiveness or understanding.
It is a relief that this man believes and preaches on how toxic Christianity and Catholic have become. I have realized that nothing is ever what it seems. "Kingdom is God, the Kingdom is "within" therefore the God is within. We all need to start looking within instead of outward. Books have been altered, and removed. The word crucifixion was not translated correctly. The fact that King Misha had victory over Isreal and erected the Moabite Stone (Yahweh) (Jesus) Misha means deliverance. This is when the foreign gods were denied and Yahwah was created. Calling themselves God because they celebrated victory over another person's land. This was when Judaism was created.
Toxic environments are usually a result of the divide created thru a system of laity and deity. Also we have to recognise that toxic environments need to be carefully investigated . This discussion is slanted in the sense that all toxicity is due to pastors. As much as members can become victims of toxicity in n church culture so also pastors . Moses was a victim/target of his own people as well. Discussion needs to be more balanced
The perfect church on Earth does not exist and you cannot make the perfect church. If you can prove me wrong and find this church DO NOT JOIN IT!!! If you do you will spoil it.
Yeah, no one ever said anything about a perfect church. Pastors, however, need to always be held accountable if they’re sinning. If they become power hungry and abusive they need to be kicked out of the pulpit.
Thank you for sharing this. I experienced this culture while being in the mission field from my sending congregation. Some laws changed in the country I was working and some things we had been doing became ilegal. I was pressured to skirt the laws. When I refused I was told I was having a mental breakdown. I was scapegoated in many ways and eventually cut off. I rejoice for this experience because I had to truly trust God more than ever to care for my family, my ministry, and myself. God is faithful and I saw how each person reflected the mindset of evil people in the Bible. Right now I am leaving a church due to some of the same toxic patterns. I am coaching an elder in the church who also sees the problem. May God heal us and our toxic church cultures. May we al be humble before God and truly reflect Christ.
It’s so sad! We are servants and have seen all this and experienced it.
You learn quickly to stay silent and keep head down.
When we were in a house church we didn’t have these toxic issues.
It’s hard to find a pastor now a days that isn’t narcissistic. We have given up finding it. We just keep our head down and serve those around us.
My husband and I became that healing pocket. The church did not want our healing pocket, and we were KICKED OUT, just in the way you guys described earlier.
You were seen as a threat to their power. Cling to Jesus and his healing touch. He is about surrenduring power.
Thank you so much for this conversation. Spot on with so many topics.
The motivation to not lose community is so big. Especially in a small church with family members.
Exactly!
Thete is a reason why some of us will never go back into churches.
Fantastic video! Leaders who bring these very troubling issues to light are the true heroes of the church. After listening to countless videos and stories like these , I just have to say. I think it's time we start calling cases of church abuse what they really are. And that's the devil seating himself in the temple of God causing the "desolation" of the church .Church abuse cases are nothing more than the devil impersonating himself as a pastor or angel of light and causing havoc on the flock..If a leader isn't willing to repent or acknowledge he did wrong, we have to ask ourselves does the Spirit of God live in him?
Yeah. I was basically called a “witch” after leaving a toxic church by the pastor after calling out his treatment of a young person and his mom. Needless to say, that pastor is no longer in leadership there.
Toxic? I got toxic. What do you when your family doctor is also your elder, your landlord, your friend, your banker, your mentor, your employer, and your babysitter? When I was finally shunned, this man adopted, yes, adopted my mentally ill daughter as a married adult, still being her doctor, and I haven't seen her or my grandchildren in ten years! I lost everything! I had no credit history, no job history, no rental history, no friends, I am not even acknowledged as a living person. All because I spoke out about the abuse of my grandchildren!
I have prayed for lots of pastors whose family was from Germany for a deliverance from a nazi spirit -
What Boz says starting at minute 13:56 is EXACTLY what my husband and I experienced!!!
If you look up narcissistic abuse you will find this pattern.
I hate the fact that if you have a concern about something within the church you’re attending, you get shut down and made to feel that you’re attacking their leadership. You’re gaslighted into thinking it’s all in your head, and that their pastor is a good man. They tell you things like you must attend the church long enough to know the pastor’s heart. I would like to know where a statement like that is found in the Bible. Also, if you can never get a private meeting with the pastor or other elders in that church then it’s a huge red flag.
Why encourage people to stay in a church that hurt us? We cannot heal where the wound occurred, the trust necessary for healing is gone. Go to a police officer and file a report. Please! We think the church will protect us, and it does not want us to exist. Report, and let the law deal with it. It cannot be worse than the shunning that comes from people we believed loved us.
Thank you very much,i was almost thinking that i am mad man in my church,and you just said what i was feeling. God bless you.
Greetings from Serbia!
Thank you! This was a blessing! Blaky
So much truth in what you guys shared. It is leaders of both sexes and elders and ministers who create this culture. You described our experience which led to us having to leave our church of almost a decade. Fear of loss of community and being marginilised and villified by church leadership is hurtful and damaging to ones sense of belonging and acceptance. This silences and alienates a believer and denies them true fellowship within that body of Christ. Best to leave and find yourself a group of believers who are full of grace and truth.
my family of origin!
Last night just before going to bed I discovered you had a youtube channel! It looks like it is new! I am so glad to see this. I hope you put a lot of your training on here. I would love to see you have Diane Langberg involved in some of your interviews.
Excellent talk.
I’m the black sheep of my church, and I have a preacher who yells at me red faced and black-eyed. I don’t even feel much like a Christian anymore.
Leave that cult
I hope you have left ❤
If there is others receiving same treatment go to the police file a report get his platform shut down he isn't operating in the right spirit sounds like a narcist pastor abusing the flock
May God bless you!
Wow. This is so true. An important to discuss.
Thank you for the excellent work you do. We are grateful for reports that your organization has completed. It is fair amd thorough and has uncovered some tragic events that have happened at Churches here in Pennsylvannia and sime recommendatiins for churches whose leaders have failed to protect the youngest and most vulnerable communicant members of a church in Philly.
Thank you for this you tube, exactly what I needed to hear today!
Thank you. This is the most loving message I’ve heard in a long time.
Exactly! What Boz says at minute 27!
I love G.R.A.C.E. but we have got to get better audio quality, I beg of thee
Preaching to the choir
One church our pastor was having affair and we exposed it to church. (Long story how we found out) well we left the church bc they stood by him and kept him in pulpit bc his family ran the church. We were then completely demonized and called all sorts of demon names. He is still in leadership and the women he had affair with was also destroyed by him and she lost everything.
I have so many stories like this sadly! 😢
Excellent!!
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This was a very healing conversation. Thank you!
If you have a problem in a church, all you can do is leave, because no one cares.
There is truth in this sadly.
@@lesliesmith719 I had an incident with my grandson, so sad. Blessings.
@@jamessheffield4173 I am sorry to hear that. So much hurt and unfairness abounds.
@@lesliesmith719 I forgive them and pray for them, but I am now scared to bring any of my grandchildren to a church. Dod bless you.
@@jamessheffield4173 Please don't be afraid because that means you are letting THEM rule your life. Your grandkids deserve to be in a good church. Take care.
Great video.
And it’s getting a little weird. This is a peaceful small town where nothing ever happens and violence is rare. This church has only about 40 members tops yet they have put in an extensive security camera system and they have an armed guard at the door standing guard during the service when all they really need to do is keep the door locked. I wonder what they are so afraid of.
That is scary.
This is great! Thanks for speaking out about this and helping the church recognize it. Other good resources are Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Oakley and Humphreys and When Narcissism Comes to Church: Healing Your Community From Emotional and Spiritual Abuse by DeGroat.
What kind of abuse are we talking about? There's subtle where private concerns are then "preached" about in a sermon. Or blatant abuse such as sexual? There's also gossip, so I wished you had brought this up as many listening don't have words to express why they felt abused . Sexual is another thing, pretty explicit.
There is just such a church here in central Florida the Senior pastor is extremely narcissistic fired many who questioned his choices such as plagerizing his messages and a lot of other egregious acts. We've all been slandered gossiped about betrayed and fired. He then writes resignation letters which are complete fabrication and reads them from the pulpit. He also has security spying on staff volunteers and members as well as trolling social media. He also forces staff etc to visit his appointed therapist who then violates hippa and shares all of the sessions with this S.P. .
I have a preacher who yells at me red faced and black-eyed whenever I mess up in anyway. And it seems that he rubs my nose in my mistakes like a puppy dog. I feel a lot less than a Christian now.
Get away from him, that’s abuse, domination and manipulation. It’s NOT LOVE! He’s messed up and broken probably has child hood trauma as well. I haven’t seen a lot of that in England.
Why are you still going there?
One name: John MacArthur
Yeah, he sounds like a complete jerk. I don’t understand his big following or why people are blinded to his big ego.
12:45 🙌🙌
That’s why the greatest commandment is LOVE, LOVE GOD LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF… LOVE WILL NOT ABUSE OTHERS , LOVE IS PATIENT, LOVE IS KIND , LOVE IS GENTLE, LOVE IS MERCIFUL, LOVE IS POLITE, LOVE DOES NO EVIL TO HER NEIGHBOR, ETC ❤CHOOSE LOVE CHOOSE FORGIVENESS, LET ALL THAT YOU DO BE DONE IN LOVE 😍 ❤ LOVE YOU BODY OF CHRIST LET UA ALL BY CHOOSING TO FORGIVE AND WALK IN LOVE BE HEALED . Jesus was so abused rejected mistreated beaten , but he entrusted himself to the father … I pray for abusive pastors some don’t even know they are abusing people, or are narcissistic, scary
This is something the abusers in church need to do.
What is TOV?
It means goodness in Hebrew
You really should have explained what a 'pocket of TOV' is - I have no idea what you're referring to.🤷
A narcissistic pastor should and can be removed not tolerated. The due process of Matt 18 needs to be applied or this sin of pride will leaven in the church. It doesn't honor God to create TOV and ignore sin.
What is tove?
They use either their good deeds as a promition or their childhood experiences as excuse! Psychotherapists help them supporting the narrative that everyone is victim. In these groups they do not deserve forgiveness or understanding.
It is a relief that this man believes and preaches on how toxic Christianity and Catholic have become. I have realized that nothing is ever what it seems. "Kingdom is God, the Kingdom is "within" therefore the God is within. We all need to start looking within instead of outward. Books have been altered, and removed. The word crucifixion was not translated correctly. The fact that King Misha had victory over Isreal and erected the Moabite Stone (Yahweh) (Jesus) Misha means deliverance. This is when the foreign gods were denied and Yahwah was created. Calling themselves God because they celebrated victory over another person's land. This was when Judaism was created.
Toxic environments are usually a result of the divide created thru a system of laity and deity. Also we have to recognise that toxic environments need to be carefully investigated . This discussion is slanted in the sense that all toxicity is due to pastors. As much as members can become victims of toxicity in n church culture so also pastors . Moses was a victim/target of his own people as well. Discussion needs to be more balanced
The perfect church on Earth does not exist and you cannot make the perfect church. If you can prove me wrong and find this church DO NOT JOIN IT!!! If you do you will spoil it.
Nobody is talking about a perfect church.
I would not look for a perfect church, but I would definitely look for a genuine church.
Yeah, no one ever said anything about a perfect church. Pastors, however, need to always be held accountable if they’re sinning. If they become power hungry and abusive they need to be kicked out of the pulpit.