I think there also needs to be an outer "ring" line for the L as well. There's so many neighborhoods in Chicago that are kind of far from it. Plus, that could make it easier to transfer to the other lines without having to go downtown.
I don't think a subway is either feasible or necessary. Elevated would work perfectly fine, and would eliminate the need for two portals, some fairly complex engineering challenges around the transfer at jefferson, and the significantly greater construction and maintenance costs of constructing that subway. The only reason to build it underground is to avoid NIMBY challenges, but in order to do that you *certainly* won't be building it cut-and-cover, and thus costs will SKYROCKET and this relatively short extension will require its own tunnel boring setup when, in reality, if the political will was there, I think this could get done significantly faster and FAR cheaper as just bog-standard CTA elevated track. People will protest; they always protest construction. Others will recognise that the brown line has very good connectivity and has brought economic boons to the north side neighbourhoods it runs through, and that this project would connect them not only to the brown and red lines and thus an easy and fast route south/southeast into a number of useful areas, but also to the blue line, all of its connections, and most crucially o'hare. Elevated rail gets a lot of NIMBY opposition in many other cities (citation: the relatively recent cancellation of rem de l'est) but it's much harder to argue it would destroy the neighbourhood and bring damnation and poor sleep upon us all when some of chicago's best, most desirable, and most famous neighbourhoods were practically built on the el. I definitely think the south side is a different case from the northwest - I haven't looked at specific demographics but I would be surprised if the RLE wasn't going through relatively poor and extremely black neighbourhoods where this brown line extension would almost certainly be through wealthy white neighbourhoods, and that means a significantly larger desire and capability for NIMBYism and "but the property values!!", but I still think it's pretty instructive that there has been very little NIMBY opposition to the RLE, especially when compared to other elevated rail proposals in america and canada. It's hard to argue elevated rail will ruin lives and neighbourhoods in a city with such iconic elevated rail, even when our rail is actually a lot more disruptive than modern elevated rail needs to be (because it was mostly built 100+ years ago).
I think the Cottage Grove Branch should be extended or made into a completely new line to go east to Stony and South from 63rd to maybe 95th or let it share a terminal with the Red Line at the new 130th Station at Stony. But I could be overseeing a lot of issues with that idea. Orange to Green might cause issues if the additional stations aren’t underground like the additional Brown Line Stations in this video would be considering a lot of 63rd headed West is Residential
When the two systems were built, they were built with the idea of commuting in mind. By the time people started thinking about circle lines, all the $$$ was going to highways.
yes. i ride the 81 to the Jefferson park blue line and during rush hour the bus can take anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour (normally 30 minutes). this would make my commute to work so much easier
CTA busses and trains run at very low frequencies compared to what you would want any given route to be operating, because of perennial lack of funding and a massive recruitment crisis. Building this extension would not only make the route significantly faster, more attractive, more comfortable, and less vulnerable to traffic and inclement weather, it would also bring the ride to the northwest (most notably o'hare, being a major transit and employment hub) through the brown line from a 3 seat ride (brown line -> bus -> blue line) that could easily have 30 minutes of wait times down to a 1-2 seat ride that's going to be 15 minutes at the absolute worst of waiting, and could (if express service to o'hare was implemented) be as low as like 2 minutes of waiting for the brown line and then just sitting on the train until you get to the airport. It would also serve a number of other relevant destinations and significantly increase the northwest's access to the blue line, which stands out as the CTA's second most important line with *not a single good connection* (I will die on that hill - the blue line's downtown transfer points are ABYSMAL. it is ridiculous that such an important line, which notably does intersect with several lines, has only two transfer points, both of which are in downtown and both of which are baaaaaaad)
Thanks for all the replies. I actually live on what would be a Pulaski Brown Line stop if this project was completed and that would cut 30 min off my commute home as well. I was just curious about time vs. money.
absolutely, connecting blue and brown would be great. running rush hour browns to ohare would be great.one thing id like to see out of it is being able to dispatch some brown line trains from rosemont, as kimball yard is at capacity, and if you add length without adding trains it will reduce frequency. the problem with that is the blue line trains use different sign curtains than the brown and orange line trains. so you would have to convert cars specifically for brown line runs from rosemont. and then you wouldnt be able to just quickly switch them back to blue as needed. maybe once more 7000s arrive it would be feasible, and i believe converting 3200s is easier than 2600s. i havent had to mess with the signs on a 3200 yet, they just work, its great.
I read a comment on another video that connecting to the blue line at Montrose makes more sense. The Metra UP-NW station could move from Jefferson Park and add a connection to the MD-W line at Mayfair. That would be a 4 line transfer point up from the present 2 line transfer at Jefferson Park. It also opens the option to reuse the abandoned ROW to Skokie/Evanston that begins there. I do like the idea to have the option to run brown line trains direct to O’Hare though. Which may be harder to achieve at Montrose with all the existing infrastructure there. +1 to those saying that elevated is the way to go. Either that or continue what the line already does by running at grade level.
"Where should we build ...?" "How about Fantasyland??" Let's get real please. Yes, it is a good idea. Yes, it is also a good idea to build more "rings" so that one could get (say) directly from Forest Park to O'Hare and O'Hare to Howard without having to go downtown. Won't happen in my grandchildrens' lifetime.
As someone who lives right in the path of any potential extension, I'd have a real problem with a subway running right by my house; let alone the construction of such. If anything, I'd probably prefer grade level running over either an elevated track or subway, which might also be least expensive.
I think there also needs to be an outer "ring" line for the L as well. There's so many neighborhoods in Chicago that are kind of far from it. Plus, that could make it easier to transfer to the other lines without having to go downtown.
I don't think a subway is either feasible or necessary. Elevated would work perfectly fine, and would eliminate the need for two portals, some fairly complex engineering challenges around the transfer at jefferson, and the significantly greater construction and maintenance costs of constructing that subway. The only reason to build it underground is to avoid NIMBY challenges, but in order to do that you *certainly* won't be building it cut-and-cover, and thus costs will SKYROCKET and this relatively short extension will require its own tunnel boring setup when, in reality, if the political will was there, I think this could get done significantly faster and FAR cheaper as just bog-standard CTA elevated track. People will protest; they always protest construction. Others will recognise that the brown line has very good connectivity and has brought economic boons to the north side neighbourhoods it runs through, and that this project would connect them not only to the brown and red lines and thus an easy and fast route south/southeast into a number of useful areas, but also to the blue line, all of its connections, and most crucially o'hare. Elevated rail gets a lot of NIMBY opposition in many other cities (citation: the relatively recent cancellation of rem de l'est) but it's much harder to argue it would destroy the neighbourhood and bring damnation and poor sleep upon us all when some of chicago's best, most desirable, and most famous neighbourhoods were practically built on the el.
I definitely think the south side is a different case from the northwest - I haven't looked at specific demographics but I would be surprised if the RLE wasn't going through relatively poor and extremely black neighbourhoods where this brown line extension would almost certainly be through wealthy white neighbourhoods, and that means a significantly larger desire and capability for NIMBYism and "but the property values!!", but I still think it's pretty instructive that there has been very little NIMBY opposition to the RLE, especially when compared to other elevated rail proposals in america and canada. It's hard to argue elevated rail will ruin lives and neighbourhoods in a city with such iconic elevated rail, even when our rail is actually a lot more disruptive than modern elevated rail needs to be (because it was mostly built 100+ years ago).
The key is you need a politician to say "Okay, I hear you, but this is happening" which is unfortunate because most politicians are cowards
the green line could also be extended to the orange line
I think the Cottage Grove Branch should be extended or made into a completely new line to go east to Stony and South from 63rd to maybe 95th or let it share a terminal with the Red Line at the new 130th Station at Stony. But I could be overseeing a lot of issues with that idea. Orange to Green might cause issues if the additional stations aren’t underground like the additional Brown Line Stations in this video would be considering a lot of 63rd headed West is Residential
Dude your channel is mad underrated!!! Keep going man!
Thank you!!
How about why the CTA never had a stop inside Ogilvie or Union stations?
theres no stop at millenium station either.
although clinton is right by ogilvie.
When the two systems were built, they were built with the idea of commuting in mind. By the time people started thinking about circle lines, all the $$$ was going to highways.
Missing connections:
Kimball to Jefferson Park
Linden to Wilmette
Cottage Grove to Jackson Park
Ashland & 63rd to Midway
Midway to Oak Lawn
The 81 goes straight from Kimball to Jefferson Park Blue Line. With that in mind, is building new track worth it for a faster connection?
yes. i ride the 81 to the Jefferson park blue line and during rush hour the bus can take anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour (normally 30 minutes). this would make my commute to work so much easier
CTA busses and trains run at very low frequencies compared to what you would want any given route to be operating, because of perennial lack of funding and a massive recruitment crisis. Building this extension would not only make the route significantly faster, more attractive, more comfortable, and less vulnerable to traffic and inclement weather, it would also bring the ride to the northwest (most notably o'hare, being a major transit and employment hub) through the brown line from a 3 seat ride (brown line -> bus -> blue line) that could easily have 30 minutes of wait times down to a 1-2 seat ride that's going to be 15 minutes at the absolute worst of waiting, and could (if express service to o'hare was implemented) be as low as like 2 minutes of waiting for the brown line and then just sitting on the train until you get to the airport. It would also serve a number of other relevant destinations and significantly increase the northwest's access to the blue line, which stands out as the CTA's second most important line with *not a single good connection* (I will die on that hill - the blue line's downtown transfer points are ABYSMAL. it is ridiculous that such an important line, which notably does intersect with several lines, has only two transfer points, both of which are in downtown and both of which are baaaaaaad)
That’s like saying why have the Blue Line when we already have the 56. NIMBY much?
Thanks for all the replies. I actually live on what would be a Pulaski Brown Line stop if this project was completed and that would cut 30 min off my commute home as well. I was just curious about time vs. money.
absolutely, connecting blue and brown would be great. running rush hour browns to ohare would be great.one thing id like to see out of it is being able to dispatch some brown line trains from rosemont, as kimball yard is at capacity, and if you add length without adding trains it will reduce frequency.
the problem with that is the blue line trains use different sign curtains than the brown and orange line trains. so you would have to convert cars specifically for brown line runs from rosemont. and then you wouldnt be able to just quickly switch them back to blue as needed.
maybe once more 7000s arrive it would be feasible, and i believe converting 3200s is easier than 2600s. i havent had to mess with the signs on a 3200 yet, they just work, its great.
Hm. Explins why i found myself on the blue line so rarely. It connects to frick all!
Subways in Chicago specifially are the least feasible option due to Chicago's (lack of) soil at deeper levels.
I read a comment on another video that connecting to the blue line at Montrose makes more sense. The Metra UP-NW station could move from Jefferson Park and add a connection to the MD-W line at Mayfair. That would be a 4 line transfer point up from the present 2 line transfer at Jefferson Park. It also opens the option to reuse the abandoned ROW to Skokie/Evanston that begins there.
I do like the idea to have the option to run brown line trains direct to O’Hare though. Which may be harder to achieve at Montrose with all the existing infrastructure there.
+1 to those saying that elevated is the way to go. Either that or continue what the line already does by running at grade level.
"Where should we build ...?" "How about Fantasyland??" Let's get real please. Yes, it is a good idea. Yes, it is also a good idea to build more "rings" so that one could get (say) directly from Forest Park to O'Hare and O'Hare to Howard without having to go downtown. Won't happen in my grandchildrens' lifetime.
Yeah bro they not building shit lol, these ideas are great but Chicago/CTA refuse to expand.
How extending yellow line too
As someone who lives right in the path of any potential extension, I'd have a real problem with a subway running right by my house; let alone the construction of such. If anything, I'd probably prefer grade level running over either an elevated track or subway, which might also be least expensive.
Why?