Clash at the Kuisegawa | Sengoku Jidai Episode 56
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
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As Tokugawa Ieyasu's army of the east moves up into Mino province, they will come to briefly skirmish with the western army, in the prelude to the battle of Sekigahara.
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Sources Used:
"Tokugawa Ieyasu" by Stephen Turnbull
"Sekigahara 1600: The Final Struggle for Power" By Anthony J Bryant
"War in Japan 1467-1615" By Stephen Turnbull
"Samurai Battles" by Michael Sharp
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Music from:
Samurai Warriors 2: Empires (Owned by Koei Tecmo)
Various themes from the Nobunaga's Ambition series (Owned by Koei Tecmo)
Artwork:
The Samurai Portraits used are from the "Nobunaga's Ambition" Series and are the property of Koei Tecmo.
Classical art, which in most cases can be considered public domain.
Art from Osprey Publications.
Other modern artist renditions, if you see your work in this video please contact me so that I can give you proper credit!
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Social Media:
Facebook: / theshogunateyoutube
Twitter: / shogunatethe
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#Samurai #History #Japan
Ishida Mitsunari's entire career summarized: "Local man literally cannot stop making enemies."
Mitsunari: "Go away Shimazu."
Yoshihiro: "Ok." *abandons the rear guard at Sekigahara.*
Mitsunari: no "night attack" that's dishonourable
Shimazu: dude, frankly, go back to accounting
LoL. How was the barbecue at Honno-ji?
@@Shreendg We brought marshmallows, sadly the fire got a wee bit too big. oops
@@akechijubeimitsuhide I bet the meat tasted Oda.
Imperial Navy: we're the best at night attacks.
Lol
Imagine not listening to Yoshihiro Shimazu a guy who multiple times defeated armies bigger than his own, to a guy who’s biggest claim to fame was winning a minor skirmish.
I think The Shogunate is correct. What would be the point of having experienced commanders under your command if not to adhere to their advice on top of insulting them when you need them the most?
I suppose it has more to do with Ishidas arrogance than heeding thier advice
@@thedragonofechigo7878 I partly agree. But that is they get when they let an Administrator(Mitsunari, even though he participated against Joseon and the Hojo, is not really a general, but a pen pusher, writing reports back to Hideyoshi) at the helm.
Ishida was a bureaucrat, had no leadership qualities needed to properly use people. That’s just my opinion though.
like yoshirio alone would get me there. dude pulled off battles considered impossible just like nobunaga.
It's a little more complex than that. Yoshihiro was a daimyo and while his reputation was certainly deserved he himself wasn't a brilliant commander, he listened to the advice of those under him. More often when daimyo make suggestions like this the motivation is political rather than strategic. No doubt Ishida Mitsunari and the lords of the Western army looked back at the last 100+ years of civil strife sparked by vassals overthrowing their lords and viewed this suggestion as a trap.
Don't get me wrong, Mitsunari should have listened to him. But there certainly was ample reason for him to reject his advice. Also as the Shogunate mentioned at this point it seemed the Western army had many, many advantages over Tokugawa and the Eastern army.
*Plans working*
Ieyasu: GENIUS
*Plans proceed to fall apart*
Ieyasu:IDIOT
"So Ishida said, 'Night attacks are for cowards. Go fight boldly...he would not listen to me and now look what we face."- Shimazu from Kessen.
This has to be the best series about the sengoku jidai period ever created. 🐐
Imagine. You're a farmer tending to your crops or a small business owner doing trade with a far off village's caravan. Enjoying your time, sharing old war stories as foot soldiers, or listening to local maid sing. Then you see Mitsunari start setting up his army on one end of the valley.
Pretty rough.
Ishida was such a choke...In particular, a night attack the ability for vacillating generals to switch sides would have been much harder.... Ishida did not realize how precarious his position was...And anybody with a half a brain would kill for have the Shimazu plan and lead your attack!
This is assuming the Eastern Army was not lead by experienced generals. It is easy to place blame and advise against actions when you know the results. For all we know this night attack may have still ended in disaster.
@@nick0653 Yes, we can not prove the night attack would work, but when your most experienced generals all think something is a great idea and your pencil pushers are the ones holding it back... I would take my chances... And experienced generals do lose on occasion. But you are right that we do not know if a night attack would have worked.
@@jeffreysams3348 It does seem that Mitsunari is being too cautious here, even if he was victorious at Sekigahara he seems to be focused on trapping Ieyasu in a decisive battle instead of taking the initiative when a chance to harm his enemy is there. A night attack may have been successful but the result would likely be the Eastern Army retreating to a favorable position, possibly linking up with more of their forces that are currently being tied down. A complete rout is unlikely as the Eastern Army commanders now know an enemy force is in the area that is sizeable enough to risk an engagement so they will be on alert.
Its like a poker player who waits for that perfect hand to win it all while missing out on winning the small pots.
@@nick0653 Agreed, and clearly what Mitsunari did not realize was by putting together a couple of small to medium victories, potential traitors would think twice and potential traitors in the eastern army could be found... Much of samurai decision making was based on go with the winning hand....
A night attack does not have to be with your entire force, with a properly executed night attack an army can destroy one 20 times its size like vlad dracula's attack on the ottoman camp. He could have permitted the attack but only risked maybe one sixth of his soldiers. Ishida should have at least done that
Really enjoyed how you framed these probing battles. No matter which way the result went, it is not till looking back with some twenty twenty hindsight and some speculation as to possible outcomes, that any informed conclusions can really take place. Even then a lot of what if thinking, is always involved. It is usually a military adage, that attacker has the advantage unless the attack fails, then it was a rash act that was doomed to fail. You can always enjoy the speculation while studying the actual results. Now on to the main event.
The prelude… to the inevitable showdown at Sekigahara
Shimazu Yoshihiro was known as a great general and a cat lover.
I disagree with the idea that a night attack would have been as successful, mainly because the element of surprise is gone. By this point the Eastern Army commanders know that an enemy force confident enough to skirmish with them is nearby so they would be on guard. Ieyasu has plenty of experienced samurai under him and even if a defeat is suffered, a complete rout is unlikely. Still it would allow the Western Army to maintain pressure on the East and show their resolve against the mighty Tokugawa.
Mitsunari basically screwed up all the way through. The Western army may have been not as cohesive as the eastern army, but it contained most of the prominent lords in Fuedal Japan. Uesugi alone was a major threat in the east. Major victory at Ueda pushed the balance of power to equal terms. Following the clash near Ogachi, a night attack would ensure victory as betrayal is less likely to happen. With the leadership of the Mori and the military prowess of the Shimazu and Ukita, the Western army has the advantage at this point in the war. But, Mitsunari desire to be the central figure in the western army only screwed over the cause.
Aah, I can't help but feel a little empathy for Mitsunari.
Such a loyal soul, yet seemingly so unfit for warfare.
From his story is so much to learn. However noble your cause might be, if too few like you, you're bound to fail.
But in the end, I think he fulfilled his duty as a warrior: he rose against what he declared treacherous, gave up literally everything for this one chance only to stay loyal to the soul of the man who made him great.
Say what you want about Ishida Mitsunari but he was the most loyal of them all. And for this, I respect him.
The battle of Shinsen(shinsen-no tatakai) is an example of how strong Shimazu Yoshihiros military acumen and strength despite a lack of numbers
Seven thousand army soldiers of the Shimazu clan led by Yoshihiro fought against the tens of thousands of soldiers of Ming and Korean Allied Forces led by Ton Yi Yuan, who was the busho of Ming, in Sacheon City on Korean Peninsula in October 1598.
It was known as the legendary battle that led weak Shimazu army to victory despite the great difference in the size of the armies, but there were various theories depending on sources that the Ming army number ranged from thirty-seven thousand to two hundred thousand soldiers, and the number of casualties ranged from several thousand to eighty thousand soldiers.
Mitsunari: We will not launch a night attack, it's too risky and cowardly.
Yoshihiro: Okay (WHY YOU NO GOOD SON OF A...)
Yoshihiro (to his generals): tell the boys we're switching sides.
R U KIDDING ME??? BEEN WAITING FOR THE MAIN EVENT... But this info is new to me, it makes me more excited for the main battle
LOVE IT!
Kazuuji Nakamura died on August 1600 before the Battle Of Kuisegawa that started on September 1600 before the Battle Of Sekigahara on October 1600. Kazuuji Nakamura was a new character in Samurai Warriors 5 as a Kōga ninja who pals with Mitsuki, Nobuyuki Oda’s daughter and Oda Nobunaga’s niece She claims is Her father (disputed) and furthermore, Kazuuji later served Toyotomi Hideyoshi as His personal ninja to independent daimyo who fought at Yamanaka Castle (Odawara campaign) alongside Hidetsugu Toyotomi and Tokugawa Ieyasu. Following the Odawara campaign and Ieyasu’s transfer to the Kantō region, Kazuuji was rewarded Suruga Province (Ieyasu’s military capital and retirement province) in my opinion to monitor Ieyasu’s activities within Kantō before Hideyoshi’s death.
As always, great video lots of useful information here. Once again I'd like to add some further context to what occured in the aftermath of this skirmish.
First, Shimazu Yoshihiro. At this point "Devil" Shimazu was easily and by far the most famous Daimyo within the Western army. Only Kuroda Yoshitaka (aka Kuroda Kanbei, aka Josui Kuroda) could rival him in terms of reputation, although for various reasons Kuroda was not afforded the same status and respect (largely due to suspicion of his intellect). Figures like Uesugi Kagekatsu and Sanada Yukimura were famous, but were isolated from the Western Army and still did not have the same level of widespread fame as Shimazu Yoshihiro. The Mori were famous in their own right but no single individual commanded the same amount of influence or respect, and indeed rivalries and differences of opinion would divide the family during the Sekigahara campaign.
Second, it was no secret within the Western camp that Tokugawa Ieyasu had been courting Shimazu's favor. Ieyasu saw much in common with the Satsuma Daimyo who had nearly conquered Kyushu prior to Toyotomi's invasion. Ieyasu and Yoshihiro had good relations and plenty of common grievances, many within the Western army viewed Yoshihiro with suspicion. Ishida Mitsunari alone seemed to disregard these reports, believing in the honor and loyalty of the Shimazu (and to be fair, the Shimazu did indeed stick with the Western army purely out of propriety and honor despite clearly favoring the Tokugawa side).
Conversely Ishida Mitsunari and Shima Sakon were both far less respected. Sakon's skills were certainly sought after, but as a ronin samurai who had served a number of defeated lords he was looked down upon by rivals. As you no doubt know Ishida Mitsunari was viewed by many powerful lords as a glorified accountant undeserving of command of the Western army. Then there was the strained relations between the Mori and the Shimazu. When Toyotomi conquered Kyushu he did so in large part using Mori clan samurai. At Sekigahara the Mori were placed in command on the battlefield, many of their family members were of high status (in particular Kobayakawa Hideaki who was Toyotomi Hideyoshi's adopted son and declared heir prior to the birth of Toyotomi Hideyori) and had to be appeased. No doubt the suggestion coming from Shimazu was viewed with both skepticism and contempt by the most powerful figures within the Western army. If the West had won at Sekigahara it was perfectly conceivable that they would face a rebellion from Kyushu next, it was imperative not to give the Shimazu any further glory along the campaign.
Yoshihiro already disliked Mitsunari, and favored Ieyasu. That didn't change with the response at this war council. It's more likely this incident highlighted the fractious and fickle nature of many of the lords of the Western army. I'm sure he already knew some of the other lords who were contemplating defecting to the Tokugawa side. I'm sure he knew the delicate political situation and his position in it, more likely him presenting this idea was him testing the waters to see where the various Western lords stood. He made up his mind shortly thereafter.
One of the best history channels on RUclips, you’ve done an amazing job here. Been a subscriber for a year and a half now
I think that if someone else led the Western Army, not Mitsunari, they could defeat Ieyasu. Maybe I'm wrong, but we'll never know.
But we must remember that many on Western Army side is Mitsunari friends, and only there because of Mitsunari Skill of talk. (And also scheme)
@@febriandi_lushan I dunno, was Konishi Yukinaga friends with Mitsunari? Was Mori Terumoto? Or Kobayakawa Hideaki?
@@Wakizaka_Yasuharu Konishi was on the Western army because of his antipathy towards Kato. Kobayakawa hated Mitsunari, actually. Spoilers, but this would be one of the main reasons why he'd defect to the East at Sekigahara. Idk about Mori though.
@@Wakizaka_Yasuharu I think he was indeed friend with Yukinaga, when you think about it actually it was Everyone vs Ieyasu (I mean on the high level authority). 4 in council was in western army. And i don't think anyone beside Mitsunari will make any different. Like "if" Terumoto is the leader, Kikkawa Hiroe Still will defy the order to move, and Kobayakawa still Backstab the Western Army
This also make become worse because Western Army lost in all of three wars that happened at same time. (Ah yeah. Also there is Mitsunari Advocate in Mori camp like Ankei who was Mitsunari friend)
@@febriandi_lushan Well, thats just wrong, because 2 eps back, The Shogunate said that because Mitsunari told Terumoto to establish himselg at Osaka, Hiroie thought that was a slight by Mitsunari, so he could get all the glory, if he won. And the alliance as a whole didn't last too long, because it was too fragile.
I just have to say. I recently discovered this chanel and I've binge watched this entire series (including setting the stage) in 6 days or so. And loved every second of it: P Great work! I'm a fan of the Sengoku Jidai period and would claim to know a fair share about the period. But I have learned so much more from your videos. I love the depth and detail you go into, and you do a fantastic job narrating the entire historical drama without making it tedious or confusing. Keep up the great work!
I'm looking forward to the battle at Sekigahara. I have a soft spot for that battle and the late sengoku period as it was an obscure game for the PS2 named Kessen which is focused arround Sekigahara that got me introduced to this wonderful time period and setting, almost 20 years ago:D
Even though Mitsunari is my favorite, he really did mess up by not considering it or if he did intact call it cowardly to have a night attack.
I just finished Dan Carlin’s supernova in the east series and going from the bleak and nasty warfare of the pacific theater back to the relatively romantic samurai warfare is an interesting contrast
love seeing the notification of a new sengoku jidai video pop up. always the highlight of my day!
Sakon, given his reputation as a good strategist would of recognised the disunity in the ranks and would of agreed with Yoshihiro. Putting a quick end to the war by launching an unexpected night raid was the best course of action. It's Mitsunari who would of dismissed the idea entirely while being blind to the disunity and disrespecting Yoshihiro, given his reputation as someone who loves to make enemies and has zero military expertise.
Since I was a kid I had dreamed of a RUclips series such as this to explain the entire Sengoku period. You have done a fantastic job and I can’t wait for Sekigahara!
Thank you for all your efforts your videos are great and so informative! I would like to ask if you could cover the downfall of the samurai after you finished the Sengoku period? That would be awesome!
Oh man I just binged this entire series up to now and I didn't even realize it was still ongoing. I was not expecting to need to wait to find out what happens next.
The Battle Begins!
or no one understood the thick Satsuma dialect of Yoshihiro.
I have to disagree. Tokugawa was a experienced and careful commander, so he probably was ready for a night attack.
The western army would probably fall for an ambush if they did that.
Everyone became far more weary of night attacks ever since okehazama
At the perfect moment
I still don't get why Mitsunari wouldn't just delegate the military matters to the daimyos. It's almost as if he has no diplomatic ability
I cannot be more excited about the upcoming battle. Just make another videoo!!!
if Tadakatsu was not around Ieyasu well be dead
o yeah!
He wasnt in Osaka in 1616 yet he still survived
So kobayakawa's location was sekigahara where the battle was fought, where he betrays them, seems likely leyasu's agents might have had a say in the decision making process of the western army lol.
Man im so hyped for this, you better mention musashi at the battle
We don't actually know if he was really there unfortunately
Popular culture like 👍 clavell always gave me the impression that Tokugawa won 🥇 sekigahara and said ‘game over, nailed it!!’ But ur series is great for the sequels 🤠
You keep us always on our feet! I always go on about my week thinking about the next episode! Good job man! It's like waiting for the next episode of your favorite series, but it's history ♥️💙💜
The final showdown is here, it's about to begin
This is one of those strategic decisions where honestly I can understand either side, and while in hindsight we can say that redeploying was a bad move because of what happened, had the western army gone with the night attack and it failed (perhaps because the Eastern Army was more vigilant due to the raid) and the army was bypassed, that could have been similarly disastrous and we’d say how dumb the generals to act so aggressively when they had superior numbers.
In the end while there are certainly wrong choices in strategy, usually you have to choose between several mediocre options, and there is rarely a “right” choice.
Wow. The sheer tension and drama. I'm so curious about what was said to set Shimazu off like that.
Another great episode! Inlike the part where you recap from the earlier episode that way i can still keep up and remember what happened
Thank you for sharing it.
I didn't know anything about this battle! That was interesting. But I did know about Shimazu Yoshihiro's advice and how it was declined. Really, Ishida Mitsunari had Murphy's Law heavily on his side, just how many bad decisions can a general take?
🙏🏽 things are getting juicy again
Thank you for the upload
I have that version of The Art of War. It has all of the additional commentaries and I highly recommend it. That book alone is more than justification for the $12.
I am more curious what lunch was Ieyasu eating that he had to bring it with him and watch the battle. Not popcorn I guess.
There is a reason why Yoshihiro has a nickname s "Devil" as he personally fight in the thick of a battle and is famous for being a really skilled warrior.
Also wonder if Shogunate will use Kessen main soundtrack for the Sekigahara video. The one called "Battlefield"
I wouldn't be surprised if Ieyasu was just enjoying a bowl of porridge while watching the Kuisegawa skirmish, given what I've read of him.
Ieyasu was known to be EXTREMELY frugal. He was known to live in very simple accommodations when on campaign, to the point you'd mistake him for a minor lord instead of one of the most powerful Daimyo of Japan.
The couple of times I read about Ieyasu eating something from Sadler's "Shogun: The Life of Tokugawa Ieyasu", it was always a bowl of porridge.
A handmaiden sneaks rice into his Millet Porridge during one hot summer day? Scolds the girl for giving him something extravagant (he was sensitive to his men's plight as the (country bumpkin) Lord of Mikawa, and was always careful of his finances)
Returns to Hamamatsu Castle after his defeat at Mikatagahara? Has a maid give him 3 bowls of rice porridge and loudly snores while he sleeps like a babe. MEANWHILE, he had the balls to do an Empty Fortress Stratagem on Takeda (and leave the castle open for stragglers from the battle), and his retainers launch a small night raid that ultimately spooks the Takeda forces. He really IS one ballsy Tanuki!
Date Masamune sends retainers to ask Ieyasu for advice about facing Hideyoshi after he delayed surrendering? Ieyasu has the retainers have simple porridge with simple toppings with him for breakfast. Ultimately, Masamune would follow his advice, save his head, and make him into a firm ally of Tokugawa Ieyasu (even IF he was always looked at with some suspicion, being a powerful Daimyo himself). Heck, Masamune read poetry to Ieyasu on his deathbed!
next one is sekigahara! I assume after that is the battle at osaka castle?
The dominoes of hubris and grudge is at hand, the Dawn of Edo rises over the Shadows of the West
As a Yoshihiro Apologist, I could agree more
"Justice" motive characters are by far the best type in nobunaga's ambition, change my mind, i always theme my custom faction with the justice types in important roles, let's be honest they deserve to rule lmao zero corruption in the state positions
Well, better get ready, cause next episode's probably gonna be one of the most insane ones yet!
Also, Shogunate, any hints on what music we might expect for the big showdown?
Another good video 👍🏻
Seriously mitsunari, don't you know that attacking an army a second time after attacking it in the same turn will wipe it out? Amateur
every cultures got that not listening to your great military leader arc that leads to your downfall.
I am well aware of the battle of Sekigahara and the potential night Raid it makes u wonder if Mitsunari did allow the Night Raid would it have succeded or not the Shimazu were known for Ambushes and Night Raids Ieyasu would know of this still, just goes to show how much of an idiot Mitsunari is in a way it could be seen as cowardly but any chance at a victory shouldn't be overlooked.
if ONLY head of the Mori clan stay still as Commander in Chief .... the history will change ....
this is late, but what is the music that's used for the opening narration where its said "in the last episode..."
My question is, does Sun Tzu have any connection/family connection to Japan? I see at the start you mentioned 'Art Of War' and I want to know if it inspired Japanese warfare tactics or he lived in Japan, etc.
I did hear for a while there were a few Chinese and Korean factions that resided in Japan, especially during Sengoku whilst fighting other opposing clans and maybe this has a connection since there were "Chinese Factions" included and Sun Tzu is Chinese (or they might've been inspired by him and that's one of the reasons they managed to bring their foreign warfare tactics to use on Japanese soil against enemy factions maybe???).
Hopefully not too confusing it's just that I see at the start of the video, you mentioned that 'Art Of War' was connected with Samurai History.
The Art of War was written well before this era. Hell, this is over 1000 years after the Han fell and the War of Three Kingdoms happened. And Art of War dates to before that.
The Art of War was brought back to Japan from China by Japanese diplomats over the course of hundreds of years of relations with the Koreans and Chinese, and was regarded as one of the necessary readings of Daimyo who, with other chinese military classics, developed their own concepts of the arts of warfare, expressed in personal combat, to heights of formidable effectiveness. The lessons there formed the bedrock of many commander's tactics in the field.
The Chinese had closed relations with Japan during the Sengoku period. They blamed Japan for the spread of the Wako raiders, which are often incorrectly labeled as Japanese pirates (the wako originated from southeast Asia and migrated northwards through the island chains that extend all the way to Southern Japan). Japan at the time did not have a true navy and thus lacked both the means and incentive to deal with the Wako. With China closing off trade the Japanese were incentivized to employ the wako and indeed many Japanese navies at the time were led by hired wako pirates.
Ryukyu islands (modern day Okinawa) had a significant population of Chinese settlers, many of them Buddhist monks that eventually lead to the creation of Karate (combination of Shaolin and the local Okinawan martial art Te). However Ryukyu didn't become a part of Japan until shortly after Sekigahara when Tokugawa ordered the Shimazu to stealthily occupy it.
The Free City of Sakai (just West of Kyoto along the coast facing Shikoku islands) had a number of Chinese merchants and other tradesmen. The city was particularly known for silk trade and only certain families were permitted to know the secrets of its manufacture, as silk in many countries was only allowed to be worn by high nobility/royalty (a law punishable by death). Beyond that, I know that the Chosokabe family of Tosa province on Shikoku were rumored to descend from the Chinese emperors. However they were definitely a Japanese samurai family, whatever Chinese blood they may have had was far back in their past.
As some mentioned the Art of War had been imported to Japan centuries before the Sengoku Jidai. When Buddhism first arrived in Japan they brought with them their written language, which was the first written form we know of in Japan (Kanji, which was the first of three written languages). There weren't many written works to study from at the time so the Art of War inevitably made its way over.
Mitsunari: night attack is coward
Oda Nabunaga at Okehazama: ?
Moral of the story respect those with more experience.
Shimazu: Young man, I've been whooping enemy butts left and right all the time while you're doing boring paperwork for your boss, Hideyoshi! Why don't you allow us to attack the Eastern Army outta nowhere during nighttime? We'll get the chance to beat them and...
Mitsunari: Shut up, you old bum!
Shimazu: YOU PUNK!!!!
WWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!
So I have a really important question what software do you use for you mapping in the series?
The shogunate I have a small question why is kuisegawa sometimes rendered as Kuzegawa in games like the samurai warriors series for instance could you please make a video explaining this is like a romanization change kind of I'm genuinely curious
That is a good question! I am not really sure. It could just be a pronunciation thing
A romcom based on miscommunication, but make it Sengoku Jidai
It is very good
I always heard samurai badmouthing mitsunari but thought he was noble for defending the toyotomi. Now I almost hate him. He's like Giuliani, ruining things for his lord because he wants to shine. "Get outta here!" krusty to homer, Simpsons movie
how many primary sources are available for the sengoku period? id like to do a school dissertation on the period and want to make sure i’ve got primary contextual evidence :)
I guess next episode will be battle of Hasedo
What is the music you have playing in the background
I'm the 908th
🗡️👀💬