Now that 22 Creedmoor is SAAMI spec'd, it's interesting to watch videos like this for perspective. Thanks to you and to everyone who helped push this cartridge into the mainstream....
It is a great cartridge certainly a screamer! I am very glad this got SAAMI approval it was a lot of fun to work with it as a wildcat and spread good information and load data on the cartridge and rifle combination we shot. Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
I appreciate the kind words and the understanding I am only human and I'll be the first to tell you I make a lot of mistakes but I do my best and am always trying to improve. Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
Stepping into the world of wildcats is a great move for this channel. The resources available to Handloader add a real sense of legitimacy to the load information. Saying that the Creedmoor cartridges are a reinvention of the wheel isn't appropriate but I think a mention of the Elgin Gates designed IHMSA family is important. Based on the .300 Savage case with a 38 degree shoulder and minimal body taper it sure looks a lot like a Creedmoor. Yet another great video! The information, cautions and minutia are all top notch.
We think so too we have been talking about it for a while and we thought this would be a nice soft entry into the wonderful world of Wildcats! That is very true we have stated those exact things in the magazines over the years. The Creedmoor has a lot of comparable cartridges. To be quite honest with you there was a lot more I wanted to mention in this video but due to time constraints with production and keeping the video in an easy to watch "short" format they did not make it into the finished video. However I am sure we will be covering this cartridge more in the magazine. Thank you very much for the feedback and the kind words I really do appreciate it. It makes my day to get to share my knowledge and to be able to talk with other knowledgeable Handloaders about the our passions for the craft. Thank you for watching! --Jeremiah
Man my heart stopped on that 1st flyer Jeremiah…man what a laser beam…I like that scope also as my uncle had 1 similar and was awsome..I have 2 rmr’s so I trust em….love to hunt coyotes with that rig on an open plain and watch em drop …thanks as always…matt in ky
it is fun to watch the groups come together the flyer that ruins it all, sadly that us usually on me and not the gun. It is a great scope and the make great products as well. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment we greatly appreciate it! --Jeremiah
That rifle is certainly impressive it is one of the few on the channel that is more accurate than I am without a doubt. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
We have heard a lot of good things about H4350 in the .22 Creedmoor that is one powder I did not personally try in this cartridges. Thanks so much for sharing your results with us and thank you for watching!
The lack of reloading data for the 22 creedmoor. I built a 22-250 with a 1-8twist, shooting 77gr. nosler comp. The load I work up using 38grs.of RL22 , getting 3150fps. When this barrel burns out I'll put a 22 creedmoor on it.
There is not a lot of data out there that is for sure. We are doing our best to contribute to the data hopefully we will have more by the time you are ready to rebarrel! I am a huge fan of the 22-250 it's a great cartridge, I had the pleasure of writing a Cartridge introduction in the latest Nosler Manual and I picked the 22-250, it is one of my favorites. I would be really curious to see what a 1:8 .22 Creedmoor could do I feel that might be a better twist rate for my personal preference to bullets. Sounds like you have a nice build, I think you will enjoy the .22 Creedmoor as well especially if you like the .22-250. At any rate thanks for watching and thank you for commenting! -- Jeremiah
Excellent! Been looking at 22CM since inception, because I haven't had a 22-250 in a long time and this is way more better , with heavy long bullets in a fast twist. The SW Long Rifle & StaBall data was great stuff too, I have a keg of each and have only done a limited amount of testing.
It is certainly is an interesting cartridge especially if you are looking for something in 22 caliber capable of launching high ballistic coefficients. Glad to hear you found the information relevant and informative. We got some pretty good results with both those powders certainly worth a try! Thanks so much for watching and for the feedback we appreciate it!
1:12 is a nightmare finding a bullet that will stabilize in 22-250, I'm using a cheap speer 55 gr spitzer....or the 50 gr spitzer sp...it needs the short bullet. .7 or shorter. Lots of bullets will do an inch at a 100 yds with marginal stability but not the 1/4 groups.
Glad to hear that you enjoyed the video, the feedback is greatly appreciated! I was very impressed with the .22 Creed and it's overall performance, It is a great cartridge. Thank you for taking the time to share your load and watch the video! --Jeremiah
We have tons of days listed on our load data website that would definitely be worth checking out. If you need further info feel free to send me an email. Jeremiah@wolfepub.com Thank you for watching and for your interest! --Jeremiah
Glad you found it informative that is what we are all about giving people the knowledge and information and helping with there handloading. Always nice to hear a good word. Thank you for watching and for the feedback!
I've built two 22crdm's and have a video of me shooting a match with one of them on my channel. They both shot great. You might look into the 95gr smks. They are shooting amazing out of our 22crdm's.
I must admit we were very impressed with the accuracy of this rifle and cartridge combination. We would have loved to try the 95 Gr SMKs unfortunately we did not get a chance with the current lack of components. I appreciate you sharing your personal experience with us and thank you for watching!
Its been 2 years and no big name rifles yet in 22 CM. However Tikka and Bergara offer fast twist rifles in 22-250 that will do the job with the heavy bullets. For the non competitor, it makes sense to go with a fast twist 22-250.
Great vid and they were some good groups with those loads I’m very new to all this and found your channel very informative you have a new sub cheers Yogi Australia 🇦🇺🤙🤙
Brett, Thank you so much for the feedback and for the kind words, We are glad that you find the information useful and that you are learning that is what we are all about. Thank you for subscribing and thank you for supporting the channel we greatly appreciate it! CHEERS!!
I hear you there the .243 Winchester is an outstanding cartridge, That is why we make these videos so folks can make educated decisions about their purchases and compare cartridges to other videos we have done and their own results. Thank you for watching!
Ah yes the .220 Swift is a great cartridge that has long satisfied many a handloaders need for speed! The 6mm Creedmoor is on the list like many other cartridges and firearms but it will probably be some time before a video is produced. 6mm ARC is in the works though and that should make for a neat comparison! Thanks for watching and for commenting. Always nice to hear others opinions and experience!
Yes another swift and 22-50 shooter here in the uk , I think the 22-250 has the advantage, in there’s more available off the selves ammo as a reloader doesn’t matter so much only makes more brass available, I like too buy the ammo first then reload it after , Both real accurate
I can believe that if you push them hard enough with a fast enough twist rate it is possible to create too much bullet yaw and it will literally tear itself apart midflight. I wish we had a High speed camera that would be a pretty spectacular thing to capture on film. Thank you for watching!! --Jeremiah
Well thought out and very meticulous. And just in time for my load development. I am putting together a 22 Creedmoor AR-10 variant with a 22" CarbonSix barrel, intending for this to be my coyote rifle. I'll likely start with RL-26 and 75 gr ELD-M. Thanks to your work I know a good place to start. That country where you shoot sure looks familiar. Are you shooting in the West Desert in Utah?
Thank you for the kind words, we are glad your enjoyed the video and found it informative. I used to use an AR-10 quite a bit for coyote hunting. I am not shooting an AR-15 more these days and it changes a lot depending on what I am doing but the lightweight carbon barrel is a good idea. That was my #1 complaint with my AR-10 it was accurate but boy was it heavy! RL-26 sounds like a great starting place to me. We do almost all of our shooting in Northern Arizona as that is where the company is based out of. Not far from Utah though! Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
I have a 22/250 improved that shoots Quarter inch all day… 52 Hpbt velocity 3800-3900. Jewel trigger 16 oz, tight neck.. Macmillan stock, Leopold 6.5-20.
H4350 has been proven many times to be the best in all my 22 creedmoor. I have 5 bolt and gas guns and repeatedly I get the best es and sd from h4350 with bullits from 77-90gr.
That is one powders we did not get a chance to test on camera. Thank you for sharing your personal experience with the cartridge and H4350! And as always thank you for watching!
Great shooting and groups. Other than maybe higher BC bullets and this being a wildcat cartridge, most of those velocities are at or similar to the 243. win and 6 mm Creedmoor. The Creedmoor also shoots higher BC bullets as well. Both of these are Saami approved. What would the recoil difference be?
Thank you very much and thanks for watching! That is very true those cartridges are all very close velocity wise. The .22 Creedmoor is capable of slightly more velocity (about 3,300 FPS with a 90 grain bullet) and can potentially launch higher BC bullets than but that entirely depends on your bullet selection. The recoil difference is not a major difference but watch closely to how much the rifle moves as I shoot it, I would say the .22 Creedmoor is less than a .243 Winchester and slightly less than a 6mm Creedmoor. However this rifle also weighs 13 LBS so that plays a major factor in felt recoil. It is very close though, I did find it easier to watch impacts with the .22 Creedmoor over both .243 and 6mm Creedmoor. Great question there are so many options out there they are really splitting hairs when it comes to performance. I personally like to have the options though.
Hi Jeremiah, I am working up a load for my Mark V Sporter .340 Wby Magnum to take elk hunting this fall; provided of course, Wyoming and Colorado see things my way in a couple months or so. (Sweatin' it out here 🥺) I have a supply of some of the same Handloader blue rifle targets you're using here. My question is, when you aim, are your crosshairs fixed on the center bullseye when you fire the shot, or are they squared on the white box below? Please explain your procedure for printing your five shot MOA groups. Also, I don't recall any of your videos where you're adjusting the scope for bullet impact, in or above the bullseye at 100 yards. Perhaps you could do a tutorial on the full process you use, from developing a load for a specific rifle, firing the groups to determine which load gives the best performance, then adjusting the scope for that bullet at 100 plus yards, thus making the rifle field ready. If such a tutorial is already uploaded, please publish the link to it here. If not, please consider doing one. As a subscriber and pretty much a lifelong hunter/shooter who very much appreciates your channel, its content, your knowledge of all things handloading, and the way you present it, I for one would certainly be grateful. Thx!
Hi, I wish you best of luck in the draw this year and hopefully you pull a tag! I am in the same boat and am eagerly awaiting to apply for AZ deer. So typically for the videos I am just aiming at the center, circular bullseye and firing 5 shot groups with minimal adjustments to the scope while performing load development. I try not to mess with the scope too much until I have found a load I like. Once I have a load I will then set the target at the desired zero distance typically 100 yards, continue to aim at the circular bullseye and then zero my optic at that distance. The only exception to this is typically with shorter range cartridges such as 30 WCF or 45-70 then I will hold 6 o'clock on the target and adjust my sights up until they print in the circular bullseye. This produces a zero at about 175 yards and with those cartridges I don't really intend to shoot them out past 200 yards in most cases. It is possible to also hold in the white square box with the target at 100 yards and adjust the scope to print groups in the circular bullseye and this should give you a zero of about 250-300 yards depending on the cartridge. However I always recommend double checking your bullet drop at the ranges you may be shooting at and ensuring you know your hold-overs or adjustments that must be made to make an effective shot. I would love to do a video on my standard load development process I think that would be very informative and helpful to others. I generally keep it very simple for the videos in all honesty. I load up a total of 5 different charge weights with a given powder and bullet combination usually working from minimum to maximum powder charge or close to it. My powder selection of course is based off of the bullet I want to shoot and the performance I am looking for, studying load manuals and our load data website usually gives me enough information on which powder to choose. Then I shoot the 5 loads on paper and across the chronograph and rinse wash and repeat until I have worked up enough loads to feature in a video and make a table for our load data website. From there I will evaluate each loads performance checking the standard deviation and Extreme spread of each of the loads and then I will decide if I want to refine it or not and I will adjust my seating depth in an attempt to shrink group size and lower SD and ES and tune my load to my barrel the increments I work in can vary but I usually stick to around .003" increments in the seating depth to ensure I don't miss a sweet spot. Thank you for watching and for the kind words I will certainly take the load development video into consideration and add it to the list of things to cover! Thank you so much for watching and for your steadfast dedication to the magazine and RUclips channel we greatly appreciate it! I hope this all makes sense and if you have any further questions don't hesitate to ask! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV Thank you so much for the response Jeremiah! This is very helpful information. Surprisingly, I too do a number of the things you have mentioned here. After thirty years at it, it has been a very enjoyable and rewarding hobby. Your magazine and most recently your RUclips tutorials, have been a constant companion along the way. What you do for our handloading community is much appreciated. Good luck on your AZ deer draw! 👍🏿
@@bustabass9025 You are very welcome! I am always happy to help out however I can. I do try to keep it simple, it can be easy to chase your tail and go through 100 bullets before you even work up a load that works decent in your rifle so set goals and load accordingly is some of the best advice I was ever given. I am glad you enjoy the magazine the support is greatly appreciated it is because of good folks like you that subscribe that we are able to bring you these videos. I really appreciate the kind words! Thank you so much! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV Been there...done that. I even kept some of the Swiss Cheese targets to show for it! [Laffin' 😄] After hundreds of bullets, and enough powder to arm the 82nd and 101st Airborne Divs., I'd kinda like to think I've worked it out over the years. Keep 'em comin'!
@@bustabass9025 Ha ha oh yeah I think we have all been there at least once! Glad to hear that I would like to cover that topic at some point thought and honestly I would like to see various load development methods covered in the magazine as well! We will keep the videos coming as quickly as we can make em and shoot groups! --Jeremiah
Have had my .22-250 AI for 30 years. It has more of a "normal" twist rate so I stick with the 53gr VMax or the new one by Nosler. They have a significantly higher bc than any other bullet in that weight range, from 50 to 60 grs. Creedmoor Schmeedmoor! Good presentation, though!
I am a huge fan of the 22-250 AI and It really goes to show just how far ahead Mr. Ackley was for his time! I am also a big fan of the Nosler RDFs and the Custom Competition as well excellent bullets. Ha ha I hear you there with the Creedmoor it is a horse that has been beat half to death. I will quote our own Patrick Meitin on the subject, "If you make a habit of perusing gun magazines for the past several years you could be excused for believing the 6.5 Creedmoor was the only center-fire cartridge of significance." It seems to be the only thing people talk about these days. That said we had an opportunity to test out this rifle so we took it. Thanks for sharing your experience and commenting we always appreciate the feedback it helps us in selecting what to cover next. Glad you still enjoyed the presentation, thanks for watching!
very interesting that is good to know that others have experienced this issue as well in fast twist barrels. It makes me wonder what a 1:8 would do in the .22 Creedmoor it may out perform the 1:7 but it is hard to say for sure. Thank you for watching and thank you for sharing your personal experience!
I expect to get about 1,000 round of top notch accuracy from this barrel perhaps even more as it is a well made high quality barrel. Like most fast cartridges though I expect the barrel to wear faster than say a 30-06 or a .223 Remington. I see barrels as expendable though and I have no problems replacing them but for some I understand this can be an expensive endeavor. Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
I personally can appreciate the fact that we have options and variety to choose from can you really have too many cartridges? Nobody is making you buy into the new cartridges and we do our best to showcase the performance and provide the information so that those watching can make an educated choice, whether this cartridge is right for them or not, if they would like a 22 Creedmoor or a 22-250 Ackley improved. I understand it can be overwhelming to have to choose which cartridge to use with so many options available but there is also more information available than ever before. And we do our very best to provide the most information possible with each article and video we publish. Thank you for watching!
It is a pretty neat cartridge I enjoyed developing loads for this rifle. I would love to see it become a little more mainstream but at this point it doesn't even look like it's going to get SAAMI approved anytime soon. I agree though it would be neat to see Ruger and even others start chambering it.
@@UntitledSpaghetti2 I have no doubt with proper shot placement at reasonable ranges this cartridge would be more than adequate to harvest Whitetail with that bullet. I personally am a big fan of the TSX and I have taken lot's of game with it over the years.
Build it! Prefits are super easy to install yourself with minimal tooling. I built a 22cm off of one Ruger American action about 2 years ago for daytime coyote hunting….currently in the works of building a second one for night time coyote hunting
Indeed it is very similar to the 22-250 AI as well. Those bullets are pretty good at bucking the wind as well which is great for the varmint hunters out there! Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
It seems like you have a little more than a varmint cartridge there. Some of those velocities are at the high end of the .243 Winchester, with the same grain wt projectiles. Looks like pronghorn and deer are in the mix as well. Do you happen to have energy tables worked up as well?
Indeed I think it would be quite adequate for Pronghorn and deer with the right bullet. I sadly do not have a energy tables worked up but we do give all of the velocities so you can average them out and calculate them with relative ease the formula for calculating is relatively simple. Based on the general equation for kinetic energy, Ek=½mv2, which directly uses mass (m) and velocity (v), the above formula is used to calculate the kinetic energy of a projectile. That way you can calculate it for yourself for any of the loads we showcase. I wish I had a little better answer for you! Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
The target review starts around 14:15 we show each shot's velocity 1-5 listed in the video and we also show the SD and ES as well. simply watch the target review portion and look at the velocities listed 1)-5). If you need any further information don't hesitate to ask! --Jeremiah
@@dennisowen3717 If you are still having trouble let me know and I can comment the average velocities for each load or you can send me an email and I can send you the data if you are still having technical difficulties. Don't want you to miss out! --Jeremiah
This one is made by Konig Jager, the model is the super bench and sadly they are no longer in business. You may find one used but they are very rare these days. I steer most folks over to Stukey's Sturdy shooting benches as an alternative. Great question and thank you for watching! --Jeremiah
It is very similar ballistically (velocity, bullet drop and BC depending on bullets used) the .22 Creedmoor should have a slight edge over the .243 Winchester of course they are different diameter bullets as well so one must take that into account as well. The .243 Winchester is a great cartridge though don't get me wrong. The .22 Creedmoor can outperform the .22-250 with 55 grain bullets however the 22-250 AI and the .22 Creedmoor are very very similar performance and ballistics wise. Thank you for watching! Glad you enjoyed the video.
If I had a dollar every time someone gave me grief over the hat I could but a really nice hat. I would encourage you to check out the timestamp I have pasted below from another video and you'll find that I do indeed have a full head of hair when I remove that hat for a second or two you can even pause the video if you like you'll get a good view of my black hair and may even be able to spot a few gray hairs. As for why they are there I'll leave that up to your imagination, folks reading this will surely understand the reasoning. However, the hat and clothes is just what I wear on a daily basis. it is what I am wearing when I go to work, when I get home and tend to the stock I keep (I don't mean the wallstreet kind). The hat does keep the sun off your head and neck and I happen to like it as it has served me well over the years and is comfortable to wear even without a leaky roof. At any rate there is your explanation with video below. We are glad you found the video interesting and we do appreciate those that take the time to watch and comment on our videos. --Jeremiah ruclips.net/video/V563LscZLeM/видео.html
We experienced it with an 80.5 grain Berger LRHT bullet at 3,312 FPS still below max load and velocity but very close to max. Great question and thank you for watching!
I think it would have made it though it just fine but I certainly wouldn't duplicate it and find out. It is always a good idea to check loads for stability prior to attaching a suppressor just in case. It's an expensive mistake and repair times are very long provided the manufacturer is even still in business.
Excellent info 👍. What is your barrel contour and weight of the rifle without the scope? I'm thinking about building a 22 creedmoor and I'm leaning towards going with a one and eight twist. I plan to shoot between 55 and 85 grain bullets. Hunting and Target fun. Thank you
The barrel contour is medium sporter if i am remembering correctly. As for the rifle and it's weight without optics or rings I believe it was somewhere around 11.50 Lbs again if I am remembering correctly. This is actually not my rifle it is one of our writers guns so I sadly did not get to keep it. I think a 1:8 twist would work well for what you are planning on shooting our test rifle is a 1:7 twist barrel and it worked well but you certainly have to watch it with the lighter weight bullets they can come apart on you at the velocities this cartridge is capable of achieving. Thank you for watching and all great questions! --Jeremiah
This is the Redding deluxe set but we did make some upgrades to the set as well which is stated at 5:18 in the video. We replaced the de-capping rod assembly with a nitride coated expander ball and a carbide expander button and we added on a VLD micrometer adjustable seating stem. Great question and thank you for watching! --Jeremiah
What bullet and what velocity was it that caused the bullet to not stay together? You spent a long time talking and I never heard which bullet at which velocity the bullet failure occured. You did mention twist rate.
My apologies, I do believe I forgot to state that! I do believe it was a 77 grain Sierra Match King and the velocity was right around 3,550 FPS. Great question and thanks for taking the time to watch and comment! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV thanks for the reply so that I know not to load up a bunch of those at that velocity. I recently had 55 grain Hornady flat base spire point failing in 224 valkyrie 1 in 7 with the hodgden recommended maximum load with CFE 223 powder. I had to pull bullets on 100+ already loaded. I have shot thousands of those out of 223 and never had failure problems. I guess the increase in velocity was enough to cause them to literally break apart in flight.
@@Mike-xi4zt No problem!! That is the main reason I mentioned it and certain environmental factors can also effect how stable your bullets are. I know a lot of people debate weather or not the faster twist rates cause this but I certainly think that they contribute to the issue. That really sucks I hate it when I have to pull bullets that is my least favorite thing to do. I have been there and I feel your pain! --Jeremiah
Sure the action is a Remington 700 and they are available in left handed actions, you would just need a good gunsmith to put it together for you. The guy who made this particular rifle was Dale Hegstrom of little crow gunworks. Thanks for watching and taking the time to watch! --Jeremiah
I am familiar with the cartridge I recommend reaching out to us via email and seeing what we can do having full on technical conversations in the RUclips comments section is rather challenging. You can reach me by writing a email to the editor and sending it to circ@wolfepub.com. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
Thank you very much and thank you for watching! The recoil is not bad a little snappy but not enough to where you couldn't spot your misses or hits through the scope. --Jeremiah
I am aware of a few ways to reuse primers. However, there are a few issues with doing so. It typically involves either black powder, match heads, or cap compound or the Handling of explosive materials that most people do not have access to. They also tend to be corrosive with most methods, in addition to that my biggest issue is it is very labor intensive to get even a 50/50 success rate. If I could find a better way to make it less labor intensive perhaps it is something we could take into consideration. As always thank you for watching and thank you for the feedback we are always interested in what others want to see. --Jeremiah
Ha ha that is a good point! Components are certainly extremely difficult to source these days! I'll do some more research and see what I can find if there is a viable way that isn't too dangerous. We must take into consideration that primers can effect pressured considerably as well. I can't make any promises but I will certainly dig deeper and see what I can find on the subject. Thanks for the feedback and suggestion. They are always appreciated!
I kinda agree with you there, to be quite frank and honest with you I personally was not impressed with the .224 Valkyrie, I stuck with the .22 Nosler myself when all those were relatively new. At any rate thanks for watching and thank you for commenting! -- Jeremiah
Outside the window or sweet spot . Are you saying if it is on the higher side of this window or lower side? I think you have things mixed up a little. Your bullet failure isn't caused by a lack of stability. Its the rpm of the bullet because of the twist rate and velocity. The other thing that causes bullet failure with these 22 cal bullets is the throat getting fire cracked and carbon build up. Speaking from experience with these issues. I think you owe it to your viewers and readers to get your information correct.
First of all thank you for taking the time to watch and comment. I perhaps should have been more clear on this and what exactly it was we experienced and I had a lot of help researching the subject from ballisticians and even our own Brian Pearce. It is my understanding that the bullet broke apart because of high velocity and the fast (1:7 twist). This can however also happen with a 1:8 twist barrel which is why I choose to describe the issue as I did and attribute it to bullet yaw as well as velocity and twist. What happens is you are correct the bullet will spin faster than what it was designed to and due to velocity the RPM is high, this accentuates bullet yaw which in turn causes it to tear itself apart. So in a way we are both right. The bullet should only break apart at high velocities and I should have stated so if it is too slow then usually you will just experience key holing, lack of accuracy or at least that is my understanding of it. As stated around 17:13 I did inspect the rifle using a Hawkeye bore scope and I found no carbon buildup or ring and I found no burs or anything that would make me think it was the rifle and I did attribute twist rate and velocity as a cause to this phenomenon bullet yaw is what results causing the bullet to break apart. I had this repeated to me by multiple reliable sources and from multiple experts that know more than I when it comes to these matters. I hope that makes sense and I have explained that to your satisfaction. We do our best to get the information correct and provide our viewers with the most accurate and reliable data available. I wish I had a high speed camera that would be capable of capturing this experience in flight but sadly at this time our budget would not allow for such a purchase. An excellent book on this subject is the bullets flight by Franklin Ware Mann. It is a most interesting read and I highly suggest checking it out if you can find a copy. At any rate thanks again for watching and again I don't feel this video is misleading in any way and the information presented is good. --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV I prefer to read Bryan litz's books. Who has a proven that a bullets can not become "over stabilized" by "too fast" of a twist. I suggest read what he has ro say on the matter. --Andy
@@andy347495 I have several of his books they are excellent as well, I refer to them quite often. That is why I referred to the issue as bullet Yaw that is what causes the bullet to break apart, it is spinning off it's axis and therefor causes itself to literally tear itself apart. I wonder if we are refering to the same Bryan Litz's though as he clearly states that bullets can be over-stabilized. I sadly can not attach pictures to comments however I did find this link to accurate shooter refering to Bryan and the over-stabilization of bullets. I will paste it at the end of this comment. So again I repeat my conclusions from the video. Due to the fast twist and high velocity, the bullet begins to Yaw or at least become unstable this Yaw creates too much stress on the thin jacketed bullet and causes it to break apart sometimes mid-flight. I encourage you to check out this brief note from Bryan on Accurate shooter. --Jeremiah bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2013/07/over-stabilization-of-bullets-why-is-too-much-spin-a-problem/
@@andy347495 Perhaps I am not being clear enough. over-stabilization is a bit of an oxymoron, because of what it implies. The stabilization of the bullet is effected by multiple factors including but not limited to, gravity, twist rate, velocity, air density, altitude, etc. You can with the correct combination of twist rate, RPM of the bullet, velocity which is a key factor cause bullets to literally break apart mid-flight. Typically this is caused from the spin axis of the bullet and can cause the bullet to yaw along it's trajectory and it will begin to tear itself apart. I hope this clears up the matter and the answer is satisfactory to you. I appreciate you taking the time to comment and watch the video and again hopefully this clears any confusion about my statements. --Jeremiah
We got it from a company that is sadly now out of business called Konig Jager, the bench is called the super bench. It is a great bench but they are very hard to find now! --Jeremiah
That is very true it can offer some interesting issues depending on bullet selection. I did try to explain what happened with the bullet loosing stabilization. I probably could have gone into further detail though. Perhaps in a future video we can go into more detail if people are interested in it. -- Jeremiah
Be careful when doing a 22 anything....specially a 22-250. 1:12 or 1:14 twist makes it difficult to find a bullet that will stabilize. The shorter bullets seem to work best in these twist's......less then .7 in length.
Indeed the .224" bullets and the high velocity that usually comes with them can really narrow down your bullet selection. Definitely know your twist rate and check stability before you go loading up a big batch of bullets! I wrote a small piece on this in the latest Nosler loading manual on the 22-250 load data. Thank you for watching and sharing your experience! --Jeremiah
@@cugir321 It seems like all bullets are pretty tough to find these days, especially locally online it seems like they are more available. Both Barnes and Nosler bullets have been extremely difficult to find as of lately it seems. Hopefully things get better soon. --Jeremiah
@@cugir321 Hornady is definitely on the ball I have not had many issues getting their products. Only the extremely oddball stuff and that is to be expected. Speer is pretty good as well but Sierra also seems to be difficult to get unless you want 77 grain MatchKings in .224 diameter but I do see others from time to time locally. Of course shopping online I can find popular components from all these manufacturers they just tend to be much higher priced than what I find locally. I am just ready for things to get better and for components to become more readily available like they used to be!! --Jeremiah
One of my favorite test procedures, is to shoot 2 shots over 5 days and examine the 10 shot group afterwards. There is something to be said about that cold bore shot. I still have a lot to learn about that cold bore shot and what effects it and what doesn't. A lot of competition shooters don't think it exists but they also use a narrow window of powders compared to most folks. However this varmint rifle has been warmed up plenty of times over the mounds of burrowing rodents. Thanks for watching and sharing that tidbit of info with everyone! --Jeremiah
Tim, basically that is what is happening but it has a little more to do with bullet stabilization as it leaves the muzzle, it has what is referred to as Yaw in it's technical/ballistics definition, referring to the rotation of the nose of the bullet away from the line of flight. Precession refers to rotation of the bullet around the center of mass. Nutation refers to small circular movement at the bullet tip. Ideally the Yaw and Precession will settle down the further the bullet travels. However as we witnessed here it did not and that is a combination of twist rate and velocity as stated in the video. We do our very best to provide the most accurate videos we possibly can. I did consult several ballisticians and even our own Brian Pearce before I arrived at this conclusion. There is actually a lot of really good information available on the subject. Most notable was the book The Bullet's Flight from Powder to Target, by Franklin Ware Mann, should you wish to learn more about the subject. At any rate I appreciate you watching the video and all the support! I always find it enjoyable to discuss these things with like minded shooter and handloaders! --Jeremiah
Well it is a wildcat cartridge so it's not mainstream and as stated in the video it is similar to the 22-250 AI ballistically speaking. I personally am a fan of having options and for all those folks who already have all those Creedmoor cases lying around this might make a lot of sense. We try to present just the facts in our video and show the results exactly as we get them so folks can make an educated decision for themselves. Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment! --Jeremiah
To be honest with you I am not sure what the overall cost of this rifle was, If I am remembering correctly I think it was about $3,500 but it's been a while. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
Ha ha an ugly rifle but it shoots quite well, I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder but personally I agree with you I am personally a fan of more streamlined sleek looking rifles. However, I try not to let my personal bias influence what I say too much for the videos. We showcase the results as we get them and let you guys decide something not enough folks do these days. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
Way to throw that one out of the first group. That shows your lack of experience behind the trigger. The second group needs to be seated deeper. Funny, you show the rifle with a bi-pod, but don't shoot off of it. I would have ran it as you see it on the table there. Bi-pod and all.. Groups are not great considering it's a custom barrel.
I have yet to meet a shooter that didn't have flyers from time to time, unlike most people we don't edit them out. If I think it is on me I say so and that one certainly is on me as stated in the video I apologize. However, I am not sure how that equates to experience but perhaps it reflects your lack of experience. I have had the privilege of knowing many great shooters and they all have complained of flyers from time to time. I prefer to shoot off my bag, just personal preference on my part and consistency sake for all the other videos. I was overall very pleased with the groups, given my setup. The barrel is a proof research stainless steel blank and was chambered by Little Crow Gunworks. It is of high quality upon inspection with a bore scope. We like to show the results exactly as we get them though, we pride ourselves in providing honest content whether that is with the handloading, the shooter or the rifle. It is all there for you to see and for you to make educated decisions about. We always appreciate cordial feedback, thank you for taking the time to watch. --Jeremiah
I think you should read some more about the subject maybe pick up a few copies of Handloader Magazine or Bryan Litz applied ballistics books. We conducted very thorough testing off camera changing one variable at a time powder charge, seating depth testing to fine tune things. The loads we showed here on camera are quite good with group sizes all staying under 1/2 MOA when I did my part which granted could have been better. I am not sure what kind of results you are looking for but for the amount of testing conducted here I think we got good groups by any standards and these loads are more than sufficient for the varmint hunters this cartridge caters to. I won't dive into the rabbit hole too deep here when it comes to node testing and seating depth but you are changing more than one variable at a time when conducting seating depth testing case capacity and bullet jump. That makes it less effective for load development purposes and there are a lot of myths and misconceptions in regards to seating depth testing. Perhaps one day we'll do a video on this subject. --Jeremiah
@@gesheepistemology8050 Not at all I understand the concept completely, and it is exactly what you stated a concept or a theory. I have heard much talk about it however, and read even more on the subject. We tested powder charge weight and seating depth off camera for this video as stated in the video. In addition to much more testing with other rifles, barrels and cartridges. The groups here presented are good and the information and load data is good. Finding " speed nodes" and "tuning loads/groups" is a very generic term and often misleading, in this video we show or tell you everything we did to develop these loads, how we weighed our powder charges etc, a list of all charge weights tested is available on our website Loaddata . com. When it comes to seating depth testing and tuning groups though you have to be careful though and as far as "speed nodes" or "velocity nodes" go they don't really exist at least not in the way most people seem to think. Most people have never actually tested this with statistically significant sample sizes and as a result most of this is just repeated internet jargon and simply is not true. A simple swing in temperature can be enough to swing you outside the "node". When we conduct load development we are looking for the most consistent and accurate loads possible within a reasonable expenditure of time and components. Not necessarily a "speed node" or seating depth node. I hope this makes sense and explains what Numpty is doing for the sap that thinks speed node testing is all that is occurring here. -Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV Still no point looking at groups (any temp) for load development. As stated.... any load can be tuned by depth seating and that is when you find your best groups. As for all the other problems in the world like your climate, I can't fix them... maybe try varget!
@@gesheepistemology8050 I have to respectfully disagree with you and I think many others would as well. If accuracy is your goal why would you avoid looking at the end results the group size when the end goal is getting an accurate load. It's true that SD and ES are good indicators of accurate loads but they are certainly not the end all be all ultimately the proof is on the paper. It is also true Varget is very temperature stable and can certainly help but temperature is something everyone faces even differences of 30 degrees can make a big difference in velocity in some powders. So if you work up a load at 60 degrees Fahrenheit and then shoot it in 90 degree weather that would be more than enough to move you out of the would be "velocity node" even 20 degrees can be enough to change your velocity enough to bump you out of the "node". If that is how you want to work up loads then by all means go for it but for you to say that this method we use is wrong I have to disagree and maybe we just agree to disagree. However, I would encourage you to put this to the test and use a statistically significant sample size such as 30 shots and test both methods the results may surprise you I can grantee you'll learn something. That is what we are all about is learning and sharing what we have learned through extensive testing. --Jeremiah
![Tee Grizzley - Robbery 8 [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/34_vkNV6wrU/mqdefault.jpg)
Now that 22 Creedmoor is SAAMI spec'd, it's interesting to watch videos like this for perspective. Thanks to you and to everyone who helped push this cartridge into the mainstream....
It is a great cartridge certainly a screamer! I am very glad this got SAAMI approval it was a lot of fun to work with it as a wildcat and spread good information and load data on the cartridge and rifle combination we shot. Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
Don't worry about that flyer captain. You are human and you are an excellent shot. Loved the informative video.
I appreciate the kind words and the understanding I am only human and I'll be the first to tell you I make a lot of mistakes but I do my best and am always trying to improve. Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
Stepping into the world of wildcats is a great move for this channel. The resources available to Handloader add a real sense of legitimacy to the load information.
Saying that the Creedmoor cartridges are a reinvention of the wheel isn't appropriate but I think a mention of the Elgin Gates designed IHMSA family is important. Based on the .300 Savage case with a 38 degree shoulder and minimal body taper it sure looks a lot like a Creedmoor.
Yet another great video! The information, cautions and minutia are all top notch.
We think so too we have been talking about it for a while and we thought this would be a nice soft entry into the wonderful world of Wildcats!
That is very true we have stated those exact things in the magazines over the years. The Creedmoor has a lot of comparable cartridges. To be quite honest with you there was a lot more I wanted to mention in this video but due to time constraints with production and keeping the video in an easy to watch "short" format they did not make it into the finished video. However I am sure we will be covering this cartridge more in the magazine.
Thank you very much for the feedback and the kind words I really do appreciate it. It makes my day to get to share my knowledge and to be able to talk with other knowledgeable Handloaders about the our passions for the craft. Thank you for watching! --Jeremiah
Man my heart stopped on that 1st flyer Jeremiah…man what a laser beam…I like that scope also as my uncle had 1 similar and was awsome..I have 2 rmr’s so I trust em….love to hunt coyotes with that rig on an open plain and watch em drop …thanks as always…matt in ky
it is fun to watch the groups come together the flyer that ruins it all, sadly that us usually on me and not the gun. It is a great scope and the make great products as well. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment we greatly appreciate it! --Jeremiah
what a awesome group!
That rifle is certainly impressive it is one of the few on the channel that is more accurate than I am without a doubt. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
I have a 22 Creedmoor with a Proof Research barrel and shoots great. Use mainly H4350 and 75-80 grain Bullets.
We have heard a lot of good things about H4350 in the .22 Creedmoor that is one powder I did not personally try in this cartridges. Thanks so much for sharing your results with us and thank you for watching!
What charge are you running with the H4350?
The lack of reloading data for the 22 creedmoor. I built a 22-250 with a 1-8twist, shooting 77gr. nosler comp. The load I work up using 38grs.of RL22 , getting 3150fps. When this barrel burns out I'll put a 22 creedmoor on it.
There is not a lot of data out there that is for sure. We are doing our best to contribute to the data hopefully we will have more by the time you are ready to rebarrel! I am a huge fan of the 22-250 it's a great cartridge, I had the pleasure of writing a Cartridge introduction in the latest Nosler Manual and I picked the 22-250, it is one of my favorites. I would be really curious to see what a 1:8 .22 Creedmoor could do I feel that might be a better twist rate for my personal preference to bullets. Sounds like you have a nice build, I think you will enjoy the .22 Creedmoor as well especially if you like the .22-250. At any rate thanks for watching and thank you for commenting! -- Jeremiah
Great video, excellent data. Well done!
It is always nice to hear feedback on the video thank you for watching!
Excellent! Been looking at 22CM since inception, because I haven't had a 22-250 in a long time and this is way more better , with heavy long bullets in a fast twist. The SW Long Rifle & StaBall data was great stuff too, I have a keg of each and have only done a limited amount of testing.
It is certainly is an interesting cartridge especially if you are looking for something in 22 caliber capable of launching high ballistic coefficients. Glad to hear you found the information relevant and informative. We got some pretty good results with both those powders certainly worth a try! Thanks so much for watching and for the feedback we appreciate it!
1:12 is a nightmare finding a bullet that will stabilize in 22-250, I'm using a cheap speer 55 gr spitzer....or the 50 gr spitzer sp...it needs the short bullet. .7 or shorter. Lots of bullets will do an inch at a 100 yds with marginal stability but not the 1/4 groups.
Great video. I have a Fierce Carbon Rival in 22 creed and I love it. 22" barrel and shooting 75gr eldm's and H4350 is a great combo.
Glad to hear that you enjoyed the video, the feedback is greatly appreciated! I was very impressed with the .22 Creed and it's overall performance, It is a great cartridge. Thank you for taking the time to share your load and watch the video! --Jeremiah
Super interested in your load data for the 22 creedmoor. If you have anymore data I’d sure like to see it!
We have tons of days listed on our load data website that would definitely be worth checking out. If you need further info feel free to send me an email. Jeremiah@wolfepub.com
Thank you for watching and for your interest! --Jeremiah
Nice video mate great info and some good shooting this cartridge is one of interest
Glad you found it informative that is what we are all about giving people the knowledge and information and helping with there handloading. Always nice to hear a good word. Thank you for watching and for the feedback!
I've built two 22crdm's and have a video of me shooting a match with one of them on my channel. They both shot great. You might look into the 95gr smks. They are shooting amazing out of our 22crdm's.
I must admit we were very impressed with the accuracy of this rifle and cartridge combination. We would have loved to try the 95 Gr SMKs unfortunately we did not get a chance with the current lack of components. I appreciate you sharing your personal experience with us and thank you for watching!
Its been 2 years and no big name rifles yet in 22 CM. However Tikka and Bergara offer fast twist rifles in 22-250 that will do the job with the heavy bullets. For the non competitor, it makes sense to go with a fast twist 22-250.
Congratulations! Excellent video👏🏼
Thank you for the kind words and thank you for watching, glad you enjoyed the video!
Great vid and they were some good groups with those loads I’m very new to all this and found your channel very informative you have a new sub cheers Yogi Australia 🇦🇺🤙🤙
Brett, Thank you so much for the feedback and for the kind words, We are glad that you find the information useful and that you are learning that is what we are all about. Thank you for subscribing and thank you for supporting the channel we greatly appreciate it! CHEERS!!
il stickwith the swede and the 243 this is the only creed moor cartridge im interested in
I hear you there the .243 Winchester is an outstanding cartridge, That is why we make these videos so folks can make educated decisions about their purchases and compare cartridges to other videos we have done and their own results. Thank you for watching!
I stayed up past my bedtime to watch this video. It was worth it.
Ha ha, glad it was worth the time, thank you for staying up and watching the video we do appreciate it!
I'll bypas 22cm because a have a great shooting 22swift. 6mm CM would interest me most.
Ah yes the .220 Swift is a great cartridge that has long satisfied many a handloaders need for speed! The 6mm Creedmoor is on the list like many other cartridges and firearms but it will probably be some time before a video is produced. 6mm ARC is in the works though and that should make for a neat comparison! Thanks for watching and for commenting. Always nice to hear others opinions and experience!
Yes another swift and 22-50 shooter here in the uk , I think the 22-250 has the advantage, in there’s more available off the selves ammo as a reloader doesn’t matter so much only makes more brass available, I like too buy the ammo first then reload it after , Both real accurate
I have also seen bullet breakup with high twist barrel. In my case 7mm rem mag, 168gr berger classic hunter 1:7 twist.
I can believe that if you push them hard enough with a fast enough twist rate it is possible to create too much bullet yaw and it will literally tear itself apart midflight. I wish we had a High speed camera that would be a pretty spectacular thing to capture on film. Thank you for watching!! --Jeremiah
I have had 180eldm through my 1:8 280ai blow up like little grenades around 3k.
Well thought out and very meticulous. And just in time for my load development. I am putting together a 22 Creedmoor AR-10 variant with a 22" CarbonSix barrel, intending for this to be my coyote rifle. I'll likely start with RL-26 and 75 gr ELD-M. Thanks to your work I know a good place to start.
That country where you shoot sure looks familiar. Are you shooting in the West Desert in Utah?
Thank you for the kind words, we are glad your enjoyed the video and found it informative. I used to use an AR-10 quite a bit for coyote hunting. I am not shooting an AR-15 more these days and it changes a lot depending on what I am doing but the lightweight carbon barrel is a good idea. That was my #1 complaint with my AR-10 it was accurate but boy was it heavy! RL-26 sounds like a great starting place to me.
We do almost all of our shooting in Northern Arizona as that is where the company is based out of. Not far from Utah though! Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
I have a 22/250 improved that shoots Quarter inch all day… 52 Hpbt velocity 3800-3900. Jewel trigger 16 oz, tight neck.. Macmillan stock, Leopold 6.5-20.
Awesome video as always!
Glad you enjoyed it thank you for watching!!
H4350 has been proven many times to be the best in all my 22 creedmoor. I have 5 bolt and gas guns and repeatedly I get the best es and sd from h4350 with bullits from 77-90gr.
That is one powders we did not get a chance to test on camera. Thank you for sharing your personal experience with the cartridge and H4350! And as always thank you for watching!
Great shooting and groups. Other than maybe higher BC bullets and this being a wildcat cartridge, most of those velocities are at or similar to the 243. win and 6 mm Creedmoor. The Creedmoor also shoots higher BC bullets as well. Both of these are Saami approved. What would the recoil difference be?
Thank you very much and thanks for watching! That is very true those cartridges are all very close velocity wise. The .22 Creedmoor is capable of slightly more velocity (about 3,300 FPS with a 90 grain bullet) and can potentially launch higher BC bullets than but that entirely depends on your bullet selection. The recoil difference is not a major difference but watch closely to how much the rifle moves as I shoot it, I would say the .22 Creedmoor is less than a .243 Winchester and slightly less than a 6mm Creedmoor. However this rifle also weighs 13 LBS so that plays a major factor in felt recoil. It is very close though, I did find it easier to watch impacts with the .22 Creedmoor over both .243 and 6mm Creedmoor. Great question there are so many options out there they are really splitting hairs when it comes to performance. I personally like to have the options though.
Hi Jeremiah, I am working up a load for my Mark V Sporter .340 Wby Magnum to take elk hunting this fall; provided of course, Wyoming and Colorado see things my way in a couple months or so. (Sweatin' it out here 🥺)
I have a supply of some of the same Handloader blue rifle targets you're using here. My question is, when you aim, are your crosshairs fixed on the center bullseye when you fire the shot, or are they squared on the white box below? Please explain your procedure for printing your five shot MOA groups. Also, I don't recall any of your videos where you're adjusting the scope for bullet impact, in or above the bullseye at 100 yards.
Perhaps you could do a tutorial on the full process you use, from developing a load for a specific rifle, firing the groups to determine which load gives the best performance, then adjusting the scope for that bullet at 100 plus yards, thus making the rifle field ready.
If such a tutorial is already uploaded, please publish the link to it here. If not, please consider doing one. As a subscriber and pretty much a lifelong hunter/shooter who very much appreciates your channel, its content, your knowledge of all things handloading, and the way you present it, I for one would certainly be grateful. Thx!
Hi, I wish you best of luck in the draw this year and hopefully you pull a tag! I am in the same boat and am eagerly awaiting to apply for AZ deer.
So typically for the videos I am just aiming at the center, circular bullseye and firing 5 shot groups with minimal adjustments to the scope while performing load development. I try not to mess with the scope too much until I have found a load I like. Once I have a load I will then set the target at the desired zero distance typically 100 yards, continue to aim at the circular bullseye and then zero my optic at that distance. The only exception to this is typically with shorter range cartridges such as 30 WCF or 45-70 then I will hold 6 o'clock on the target and adjust my sights up until they print in the circular bullseye. This produces a zero at about 175 yards and with those cartridges I don't really intend to shoot them out past 200 yards in most cases. It is possible to also hold in the white square box with the target at 100 yards and adjust the scope to print groups in the circular bullseye and this should give you a zero of about 250-300 yards depending on the cartridge. However I always recommend double checking your bullet drop at the ranges you may be shooting at and ensuring you know your hold-overs or adjustments that must be made to make an effective shot.
I would love to do a video on my standard load development process I think that would be very informative and helpful to others. I generally keep it very simple for the videos in all honesty. I load up a total of 5 different charge weights with a given powder and bullet combination usually working from minimum to maximum powder charge or close to it. My powder selection of course is based off of the bullet I want to shoot and the performance I am looking for, studying load manuals and our load data website usually gives me enough information on which powder to choose. Then I shoot the 5 loads on paper and across the chronograph and rinse wash and repeat until I have worked up enough loads to feature in a video and make a table for our load data website. From there I will evaluate each loads performance checking the standard deviation and Extreme spread of each of the loads and then I will decide if I want to refine it or not and I will adjust my seating depth in an attempt to shrink group size and lower SD and ES and tune my load to my barrel the increments I work in can vary but I usually stick to around .003" increments in the seating depth to ensure I don't miss a sweet spot.
Thank you for watching and for the kind words I will certainly take the load development video into consideration and add it to the list of things to cover! Thank you so much for watching and for your steadfast dedication to the magazine and RUclips channel we greatly appreciate it! I hope this all makes sense and if you have any further questions don't hesitate to ask! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV
Thank you so much for the response Jeremiah! This is very helpful information.
Surprisingly, I too do a number of the things you have mentioned here. After thirty years at it, it has been a very enjoyable and rewarding hobby. Your magazine and most recently your RUclips tutorials, have been a constant companion along the way. What you do for our handloading community is much appreciated. Good luck on your AZ deer draw! 👍🏿
@@bustabass9025 You are very welcome! I am always happy to help out however I can.
I do try to keep it simple, it can be easy to chase your tail and go through 100 bullets before you even work up a load that works decent in your rifle so set goals and load accordingly is some of the best advice I was ever given. I am glad you enjoy the magazine the support is greatly appreciated it is because of good folks like you that subscribe that we are able to bring you these videos. I really appreciate the kind words! Thank you so much! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV
Been there...done that. I even kept some of the Swiss Cheese targets to show for it! [Laffin' 😄]
After hundreds of bullets, and enough powder to arm the 82nd and 101st Airborne Divs., I'd kinda like to think I've worked it out over the years. Keep 'em comin'!
@@bustabass9025 Ha ha oh yeah I think we have all been there at least once!
Glad to hear that I would like to cover that topic at some point thought and honestly I would like to see various load development methods covered in the magazine as well! We will keep the videos coming as quickly as we can make em and shoot groups! --Jeremiah
Have had my .22-250 AI for 30 years. It has more of a "normal" twist rate so I stick with the 53gr VMax or the new one by Nosler. They have a significantly higher bc than any other bullet in that weight range, from 50 to 60 grs. Creedmoor Schmeedmoor! Good presentation, though!
I am a huge fan of the 22-250 AI and It really goes to show just how far ahead Mr. Ackley was for his time! I am also a big fan of the Nosler RDFs and the Custom Competition as well excellent bullets. Ha ha I hear you there with the Creedmoor it is a horse that has been beat half to death. I will quote our own Patrick Meitin on the subject, "If you make a habit of perusing gun magazines for the past several years you could be excused for believing the 6.5 Creedmoor was the only center-fire cartridge of significance." It seems to be the only thing people talk about these days. That said we had an opportunity to test out this rifle so we took it. Thanks for sharing your experience and commenting we always appreciate the feedback it helps us in selecting what to cover next. Glad you still enjoyed the presentation, thanks for watching!
Seirra 90 grn in my 1:7 223 blow up if at max load. Great at slightly lower velocity.
very interesting that is good to know that others have experienced this issue as well in fast twist barrels. It makes me wonder what a 1:8 would do in the .22 Creedmoor it may out perform the 1:7 but it is hard to say for sure. Thank you for watching and thank you for sharing your personal experience!
With that MV speed, how about the barrel rifle? Do you expect to shoot 800 rds before you need a new barrel?
I expect to get about 1,000 round of top notch accuracy from this barrel perhaps even more as it is a well made high quality barrel. Like most fast cartridges though I expect the barrel to wear faster than say a 30-06 or a .223 Remington. I see barrels as expendable though and I have no problems replacing them but for some I understand this can be an expensive endeavor. Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
Now we have .22 Creedmore? Stop the madness! What is this thing? Guys, we have enough .22s, don't we?
Hell, let's wait on the .17 Creedmore!
I personally can appreciate the fact that we have options and variety to choose from can you really have too many cartridges? Nobody is making you buy into the new cartridges and we do our best to showcase the performance and provide the information so that those watching can make an educated choice, whether this cartridge is right for them or not, if they would like a 22 Creedmoor or a 22-250 Ackley improved. I understand it can be overwhelming to have to choose which cartridge to use with so many options available but there is also more information available than ever before. And we do our very best to provide the most information possible with each article and video we publish. Thank you for watching!
I really like the 22 CM. I hope Ruger starts chambering the American for it.
It is a pretty neat cartridge I enjoyed developing loads for this rifle. I would love to see it become a little more mainstream but at this point it doesn't even look like it's going to get SAAMI approved anytime soon. I agree though it would be neat to see Ruger and even others start chambering it.
@@HandloaderTV how would the 22CM perform with the 78gr TSX on whitetail? I'm considering a rebarrel.
@@UntitledSpaghetti2 I have no doubt with proper shot placement at reasonable ranges this cartridge would be more than adequate to harvest Whitetail with that bullet. I personally am a big fan of the TSX and I have taken lot's of game with it over the years.
Build it! Prefits are super easy to install yourself with minimal tooling. I built a 22cm off of one Ruger American action about 2 years ago for daytime coyote hunting….currently in the works of building a second one for night time coyote hunting
That 22 creedmoor reminds me of the 220 swift but with better bullets.
Indeed it is very similar to the 22-250 AI as well. Those bullets are pretty good at bucking the wind as well which is great for the varmint hunters out there! Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
It seems like you have a little more than a varmint cartridge there. Some of those velocities are at the high end of the .243 Winchester, with the same grain wt projectiles. Looks like pronghorn and deer are in the mix as well. Do you happen to have energy tables worked up as well?
Indeed I think it would be quite adequate for Pronghorn and deer with the right bullet. I sadly do not have a energy tables worked up but we do give all of the velocities so you can average them out and calculate them with relative ease the formula for calculating is relatively simple. Based on the general equation for kinetic energy, Ek=½mv2, which directly uses mass (m) and velocity (v), the above formula is used to calculate the kinetic energy of a projectile. That way you can calculate it for yourself for any of the loads we showcase. I wish I had a little better answer for you! Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
I'd like to know the velocities of these loads. Considering how accurate it is I'm now a believer. Could you get me that info please.
The target review starts around 14:15 we show each shot's velocity 1-5 listed in the video and we also show the SD and ES as well. simply watch the target review portion and look at the velocities listed 1)-5). If you need any further information don't hesitate to ask! --Jeremiah
Thank you. I'll have re be watch it and this time I hope my internet doesn't go out again.
@@dennisowen3717 If you are still having trouble let me know and I can comment the average velocities for each load or you can send me an email and I can send you the data if you are still having technical difficulties. Don't want you to miss out! --Jeremiah
Who makes the shooting bench used in this video and where can I get one ?
This one is made by Konig Jager, the model is the super bench and sadly they are no longer in business. You may find one used but they are very rare these days. I steer most folks over to Stukey's Sturdy shooting benches as an alternative. Great question and thank you for watching! --Jeremiah
Looks like it is nearly as good as a .234 Winchester. Can it do as well as a 22-250 with 55 gr pills? Nice vid thanks.
It is very similar ballistically (velocity, bullet drop and BC depending on bullets used) the .22 Creedmoor should have a slight edge over the .243 Winchester of course they are different diameter bullets as well so one must take that into account as well. The .243 Winchester is a great cartridge though don't get me wrong. The .22 Creedmoor can outperform the .22-250 with 55 grain bullets however the 22-250 AI and the .22 Creedmoor are very very similar performance and ballistics wise. Thank you for watching! Glad you enjoyed the video.
Very interesting but why the hat? Concealing mpb or does the ceiling need maintenance?
If I had a dollar every time someone gave me grief over the hat I could but a really nice hat. I would encourage you to check out the timestamp I have pasted below from another video and you'll find that I do indeed have a full head of hair when I remove that hat for a second or two you can even pause the video if you like you'll get a good view of my black hair and may even be able to spot a few gray hairs. As for why they are there I'll leave that up to your imagination, folks reading this will surely understand the reasoning. However, the hat and clothes is just what I wear on a daily basis. it is what I am wearing when I go to work, when I get home and tend to the stock I keep (I don't mean the wallstreet kind). The hat does keep the sun off your head and neck and I happen to like it as it has served me well over the years and is comfortable to wear even without a leaky roof. At any rate there is your explanation with video below. We are glad you found the video interesting and we do appreciate those that take the time to watch and comment on our videos. --Jeremiah
ruclips.net/video/V563LscZLeM/видео.html
Which bullet came apart and at what velocity ?
We experienced it with an 80.5 grain Berger LRHT bullet at 3,312 FPS still below max load and velocity but very close to max. Great question and thank you for watching!
what would of happened with that tumbling round if you had a can on the end?
I think it would have made it though it just fine but I certainly wouldn't duplicate it and find out. It is always a good idea to check loads for stability prior to attaching a suppressor just in case. It's an expensive mistake and repair times are very long provided the manufacturer is even still in business.
Excellent info 👍. What is your barrel contour and weight of the rifle without the scope? I'm thinking about building a 22 creedmoor and I'm leaning towards going with a one and eight twist. I plan to shoot between 55 and 85 grain bullets. Hunting and Target fun. Thank you
The barrel contour is medium sporter if i am remembering correctly. As for the rifle and it's weight without optics or rings I believe it was somewhere around 11.50 Lbs again if I am remembering correctly. This is actually not my rifle it is one of our writers guns so I sadly did not get to keep it. I think a 1:8 twist would work well for what you are planning on shooting our test rifle is a 1:7 twist barrel and it worked well but you certainly have to watch it with the lighter weight bullets they can come apart on you at the velocities this cartridge is capable of achieving. Thank you for watching and all great questions! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV Excellent info thank you 👍
@@brianlee6849 No problem always happy to help!
Redding Dies are great. What Die kit did you get?
This is the Redding deluxe set but we did make some upgrades to the set as well which is stated at 5:18 in the video. We replaced the de-capping rod assembly with a nitride coated expander ball and a carbide expander button and we added on a VLD micrometer adjustable seating stem. Great question and thank you for watching! --Jeremiah
What bullet and what velocity was it that caused the bullet to not stay together? You spent a long time talking and I never heard which bullet at which velocity the bullet failure occured. You did mention twist rate.
My apologies, I do believe I forgot to state that! I do believe it was a 77 grain Sierra Match King and the velocity was right around 3,550 FPS. Great question and thanks for taking the time to watch and comment! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV thanks for the reply so that I know not to load up a bunch of those at that velocity. I recently had 55 grain Hornady flat base spire point failing in 224 valkyrie 1 in 7 with the hodgden recommended maximum load with CFE 223 powder. I had to pull bullets on 100+ already loaded. I have shot thousands of those out of 223 and never had failure problems. I guess the increase in velocity was enough to cause them to literally break apart in flight.
@@Mike-xi4zt No problem!! That is the main reason I mentioned it and certain environmental factors can also effect how stable your bullets are. I know a lot of people debate weather or not the faster twist rates cause this but I certainly think that they contribute to the issue. That really sucks I hate it when I have to pull bullets that is my least favorite thing to do. I have been there and I feel your pain! --Jeremiah
Can one like this one be made left handed?
Sure the action is a Remington 700 and they are available in left handed actions, you would just need a good gunsmith to put it together for you. The guy who made this particular rifle was Dale Hegstrom of little crow gunworks. Thanks for watching and taking the time to watch! --Jeremiah
Looking for some help in reloading 375 raptor in a bolt gun with 12 inch barrel
I am familiar with the cartridge I recommend reaching out to us via email and seeing what we can do having full on technical conversations in the RUclips comments section is rather challenging. You can reach me by writing a email to the editor and sending it to circ@wolfepub.com. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
I can't get the email to work
Nice video! Snappy recoil for a small cartridge?
Thank you very much and thank you for watching! The recoil is not bad a little snappy but not enough to where you couldn't spot your misses or hits through the scope. --Jeremiah
Handloader should make a video on how to reload a primer.
I am aware of a few ways to reuse primers. However, there are a few issues with doing so. It typically involves either black powder, match heads, or cap compound or the Handling of explosive materials that most people do not have access to. They also tend to be corrosive with most methods, in addition to that my biggest issue is it is very labor intensive to get even a 50/50 success rate. If I could find a better way to make it less labor intensive perhaps it is something we could take into consideration. As always thank you for watching and thank you for the feedback we are always interested in what others want to see. --Jeremiah
I’d take 50/50 chances over the 0% chance of being able to find them in stock lol
Ha ha that is a good point! Components are certainly extremely difficult to source these days! I'll do some more research and see what I can find if there is a viable way that isn't too dangerous. We must take into consideration that primers can effect pressured considerably as well. I can't make any promises but I will certainly dig deeper and see what I can find on the subject. Thanks for the feedback and suggestion. They are always appreciated!
Comes To Wind It’s Up To Your Set Skills Adjusting The Dope On The Scope Knowledge & Operator At Longer Ranges At The Trigger.
This is what the valkyrie should have been.
I kinda agree with you there, to be quite frank and honest with you I personally was not impressed with the .224 Valkyrie, I stuck with the .22 Nosler myself when all those were relatively new. At any rate thanks for watching and thank you for commenting! -- Jeremiah
Its the 224 Valkyrie Magnum 👍
Outside the window or sweet spot . Are you saying if it is on the higher side of this window or lower side? I think you have things mixed up a little. Your bullet failure isn't caused by a lack of stability. Its the rpm of the bullet because of the twist rate and velocity. The other thing that causes bullet failure with these 22 cal bullets is the throat getting fire cracked and carbon build up. Speaking from experience with these issues. I think you owe it to your viewers and readers to get your information correct.
First of all thank you for taking the time to watch and comment. I perhaps should have been more clear on this and what exactly it was we experienced and I had a lot of help researching the subject from ballisticians and even our own Brian Pearce. It is my understanding that the bullet broke apart because of high velocity and the fast (1:7 twist). This can however also happen with a 1:8 twist barrel which is why I choose to describe the issue as I did and attribute it to bullet yaw as well as velocity and twist. What happens is you are correct the bullet will spin faster than what it was designed to and due to velocity the RPM is high, this accentuates bullet yaw which in turn causes it to tear itself apart. So in a way we are both right. The bullet should only break apart at high velocities and I should have stated so if it is too slow then usually you will just experience key holing, lack of accuracy or at least that is my understanding of it. As stated around 17:13 I did inspect the rifle using a Hawkeye bore scope and I found no carbon buildup or ring and I found no burs or anything that would make me think it was the rifle and I did attribute twist rate and velocity as a cause to this phenomenon bullet yaw is what results causing the bullet to break apart. I had this repeated to me by multiple reliable sources and from multiple experts that know more than I when it comes to these matters. I hope that makes sense and I have explained that to your satisfaction. We do our best to get the information correct and provide our viewers with the most accurate and reliable data available. I wish I had a high speed camera that would be capable of capturing this experience in flight but sadly at this time our budget would not allow for such a purchase. An excellent book on this subject is the bullets flight by Franklin Ware Mann. It is a most interesting read and I highly suggest checking it out if you can find a copy. At any rate thanks again for watching and again I don't feel this video is misleading in any way and the information presented is good. --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV I prefer to read Bryan litz's books. Who has a proven that a bullets can not become "over stabilized" by "too fast" of a twist. I suggest read what he has ro say on the matter. --Andy
@@andy347495 I have several of his books they are excellent as well, I refer to them quite often. That is why I referred to the issue as bullet Yaw that is what causes the bullet to break apart, it is spinning off it's axis and therefor causes itself to literally tear itself apart. I wonder if we are refering to the same Bryan Litz's though as he clearly states that bullets can be over-stabilized. I sadly can not attach pictures to comments however I did find this link to accurate shooter refering to Bryan and the over-stabilization of bullets. I will paste it at the end of this comment. So again I repeat my conclusions from the video. Due to the fast twist and high velocity, the bullet begins to Yaw or at least become unstable this Yaw creates too much stress on the thin jacketed bullet and causes it to break apart sometimes mid-flight. I encourage you to check out this brief note from Bryan on Accurate shooter. --Jeremiah
bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2013/07/over-stabilization-of-bullets-why-is-too-much-spin-a-problem/
@@HandloaderTV and in that bulletin he says yaw from too fast of a twist is false.
@@andy347495 Perhaps I am not being clear enough. over-stabilization is a bit of an oxymoron, because of what it implies. The stabilization of the bullet is effected by multiple factors including but not limited to, gravity, twist rate, velocity, air density, altitude, etc. You can with the correct combination of twist rate, RPM of the bullet, velocity which is a key factor cause bullets to literally break apart mid-flight. Typically this is caused from the spin axis of the bullet and can cause the bullet to yaw along it's trajectory and it will begin to tear itself apart. I hope this clears up the matter and the answer is satisfactory to you. I appreciate you taking the time to comment and watch the video and again hopefully this clears any confusion about my statements. --Jeremiah
Where did you get the bench in this video?
We got it from a company that is sadly now out of business called Konig Jager, the bench is called the super bench. It is a great bench but they are very hard to find now! --Jeremiah
I wish you would of gone into twist rate more, its little understood to the general shooting boys and girls
That is very true it can offer some interesting issues depending on bullet selection. I did try to explain what happened with the bullet loosing stabilization. I probably could have gone into further detail though. Perhaps in a future video we can go into more detail if people are interested in it. -- Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV Using Bergers twist calculator you'll be surprise how many bullets are marginally stabilised in the .224 cal's
Be careful when doing a 22 anything....specially a 22-250. 1:12 or 1:14 twist makes it difficult to find a bullet that will stabilize. The shorter bullets seem to work best in these twist's......less then .7 in length.
Indeed the .224" bullets and the high velocity that usually comes with them can really narrow down your bullet selection. Definitely know your twist rate and check stability before you go loading up a big batch of bullets! I wrote a small piece on this in the latest Nosler loading manual on the 22-250 load data. Thank you for watching and sharing your experience! --Jeremiah
Getting nosler bullets can be impossible.
Don't work up a load with nosler and expect to be able to get them down the road.
@@cugir321 It seems like all bullets are pretty tough to find these days, especially locally online it seems like they are more available. Both Barnes and Nosler bullets have been extremely difficult to find as of lately it seems. Hopefully things get better soon. --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV I haven't had any problems getting hornady, speer, and most of sierra.
@@cugir321 Hornady is definitely on the ball I have not had many issues getting their products. Only the extremely oddball stuff and that is to be expected. Speer is pretty good as well but Sierra also seems to be difficult to get unless you want 77 grain MatchKings in .224 diameter but I do see others from time to time locally. Of course shopping online I can find popular components from all these manufacturers they just tend to be much higher priced than what I find locally. I am just ready for things to get better and for components to become more readily available like they used to be!! --Jeremiah
👌👍☕💪
Thanks for watching!
I'll rather stay with the group that shoots tide with the first 2 shots out of a cold barrel. you will not warm up your barrel before hunting.
One of my favorite test procedures, is to shoot 2 shots over 5 days and examine the 10 shot group afterwards. There is something to be said about that cold bore shot. I still have a lot to learn about that cold bore shot and what effects it and what doesn't. A lot of competition shooters don't think it exists but they also use a narrow window of powders compared to most folks. However this varmint rifle has been warmed up plenty of times over the mounds of burrowing rodents. Thanks for watching and sharing that tidbit of info with everyone! --Jeremiah
Yaw? Lol you mean turns to much rpm and rips jackets to pieces.
Tim, basically that is what is happening but it has a little more to do with bullet stabilization as it leaves the muzzle, it has what is referred to as Yaw in it's technical/ballistics definition, referring to the rotation of the nose of the bullet away from the line of flight. Precession refers to rotation of the bullet around the center of mass. Nutation refers to small circular movement at the bullet tip. Ideally the Yaw and Precession will settle down the further the bullet travels. However as we witnessed here it did not and that is a combination of twist rate and velocity as stated in the video. We do our very best to provide the most accurate videos we possibly can. I did consult several ballisticians and even our own Brian Pearce before I arrived at this conclusion. There is actually a lot of really good information available on the subject. Most notable was the book The Bullet's Flight from Powder to Target, by Franklin Ware Mann, should you wish to learn more about the subject. At any rate I appreciate you watching the video and all the support! I always find it enjoyable to discuss these things with like minded shooter and handloaders! --Jeremiah
just what we need another needmoor cartridge that is nothing new . marketing bs
Well it is a wildcat cartridge so it's not mainstream and as stated in the video it is similar to the 22-250 AI ballistically speaking. I personally am a fan of having options and for all those folks who already have all those Creedmoor cases lying around this might make a lot of sense. We try to present just the facts in our video and show the results exactly as we get them so folks can make an educated decision for themselves. Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment! --Jeremiah
5000.00 rifle
To be honest with you I am not sure what the overall cost of this rifle was, If I am remembering correctly I think it was about $3,500 but it's been a while. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
Love the channel! But that is about the ugliest rifle though
Ha ha an ugly rifle but it shoots quite well, I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder but personally I agree with you I am personally a fan of more streamlined sleek looking rifles. However, I try not to let my personal bias influence what I say too much for the videos. We showcase the results as we get them and let you guys decide something not enough folks do these days. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
Way to throw that one out of the first group. That shows your lack of experience behind the trigger. The second group needs to be seated deeper. Funny, you show the rifle with a bi-pod, but don't shoot off of it. I would have ran it as you see it on the table there. Bi-pod and all.. Groups are not great considering it's a custom barrel.
I have yet to meet a shooter that didn't have flyers from time to time, unlike most people we don't edit them out. If I think it is on me I say so and that one certainly is on me as stated in the video I apologize. However, I am not sure how that equates to experience but perhaps it reflects your lack of experience. I have had the privilege of knowing many great shooters and they all have complained of flyers from time to time. I prefer to shoot off my bag, just personal preference on my part and consistency sake for all the other videos. I was overall very pleased with the groups, given my setup. The barrel is a proof research stainless steel blank and was chambered by Little Crow Gunworks. It is of high quality upon inspection with a bore scope. We like to show the results exactly as we get them though, we pride ourselves in providing honest content whether that is with the handloading, the shooter or the rifle. It is all there for you to see and for you to make educated decisions about. We always appreciate cordial feedback, thank you for taking the time to watch. --Jeremiah
Why is Numpty doing groups on speed node testing???? Depth seating tunes any load!
I think you should read some more about the subject maybe pick up a few copies of Handloader Magazine or Bryan Litz applied ballistics books. We conducted very thorough testing off camera changing one variable at a time powder charge, seating depth testing to fine tune things. The loads we showed here on camera are quite good with group sizes all staying under 1/2 MOA when I did my part which granted could have been better. I am not sure what kind of results you are looking for but for the amount of testing conducted here I think we got good groups by any standards and these loads are more than sufficient for the varmint hunters this cartridge caters to. I won't dive into the rabbit hole too deep here when it comes to node testing and seating depth but you are changing more than one variable at a time when conducting seating depth testing case capacity and bullet jump. That makes it less effective for load development purposes and there are a lot of myths and misconceptions in regards to seating depth testing. Perhaps one day we'll do a video on this subject. --Jeremiah
Load testing is to find speed nodes... depth seating is tuning loads/groups... is this a hard concept to grasp?@@HandloaderTV
@@gesheepistemology8050 Not at all I understand the concept completely, and it is exactly what you stated a concept or a theory. I have heard much talk about it however, and read even more on the subject. We tested powder charge weight and seating depth off camera for this video as stated in the video. In addition to much more testing with other rifles, barrels and cartridges. The groups here presented are good and the information and load data is good. Finding " speed nodes" and "tuning loads/groups" is a very generic term and often misleading, in this video we show or tell you everything we did to develop these loads, how we weighed our powder charges etc, a list of all charge weights tested is available on our website Loaddata . com. When it comes to seating depth testing and tuning groups though you have to be careful though and as far as "speed nodes" or "velocity nodes" go they don't really exist at least not in the way most people seem to think. Most people have never actually tested this with statistically significant sample sizes and as a result most of this is just repeated internet jargon and simply is not true. A simple swing in temperature can be enough to swing you outside the "node". When we conduct load development we are looking for the most consistent and accurate loads possible within a reasonable expenditure of time and components. Not necessarily a "speed node" or seating depth node. I hope this makes sense and explains what Numpty is doing for the sap that thinks speed node testing is all that is occurring here. -Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV Still no point looking at groups (any temp) for load development. As stated.... any load can be tuned by depth seating and that is when you find your best groups. As for all the other problems in the world like your climate, I can't fix them... maybe try varget!
@@gesheepistemology8050 I have to respectfully disagree with you and I think many others would as well. If accuracy is your goal why would you avoid looking at the end results the group size when the end goal is getting an accurate load. It's true that SD and ES are good indicators of accurate loads but they are certainly not the end all be all ultimately the proof is on the paper. It is also true Varget is very temperature stable and can certainly help but temperature is something everyone faces even differences of 30 degrees can make a big difference in velocity in some powders. So if you work up a load at 60 degrees Fahrenheit and then shoot it in 90 degree weather that would be more than enough to move you out of the would be "velocity node" even 20 degrees can be enough to change your velocity enough to bump you out of the "node". If that is how you want to work up loads then by all means go for it but for you to say that this method we use is wrong I have to disagree and maybe we just agree to disagree. However, I would encourage you to put this to the test and use a statistically significant sample size such as 30 shots and test both methods the results may surprise you I can grantee you'll learn something. That is what we are all about is learning and sharing what we have learned through extensive testing. --Jeremiah