Piper Getting Into Heaven NOT by Faith Alone - Pastor Patrick Hines Podcast
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- Piper Getting Into Heaven NOT by Faith Alone - Pastor Patrick Hines Podcast
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From the church website:
We subscribe to the Westminster Standards as our doctrinal statement. It consists of the following documents:
The Westminster Confession of Faith
The Westminster Larger Catechism
The Westminster Shorter Catechism
We also believe that Christian Worship is to be regulated and defined by God's Word, the Bible.
Our worship services are designed to please and honor the Triune God of the Bible. We place Scripture reading and the preaching of the word of God at the center of worship along with Baptism and the Lord's Supper. These are God's gifts to His church and ought to always be at the center of Christian worship. We are a congregation that loves to sing God's praises, recite His Word back to Him, and actively engage in hearing and learning from God's Word.
We embrace and promote a comprehensive Christian world and life view.
There is no area of life which is not under the Lordship of Jesus Christ. It is to God and His law which all people, including governments and civil rulers, will answer. The Word of God embraces and informs the way we view marriage, the family, children, education, politics, worship, law, government, war, the church, missions, evangelism, and worship. In the world today there is a battle of opposing worldviews. There are basically only two positions: God's Word and man's ideas. We stand positively for Biblical truth and negatively against man's ideas which are opposed to Biblical truth.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only hope for mankind.
Because all men fall short of obeying God's law, all men everywhere are in need of divine grace and salvation from God. This salvation is found only in the Lord Jesus Christ who died for sinners, was buried, rose again, and is alive today seated at God the Father's right hand.
We Worship God Together as Families.
We offer nursery during the morning worship service for newborns and infants but encourage people to keep as many of their children as they can with them for morning worship. The audio of the service is in the nursery via speakers. There is also a crying room with a video screen and audio of the sermon. We offer Sunday school classes for all ages, but worship together as families. We do not offer "children's" church.
All who profess faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and are members of an evangelical church are cordially invited to participate with us in the Lord's Supper.
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Pastor Patrick, I just want to say that I’ve been a John Piper fan for well over two years now since my conversion. I’ve come to the faith at a reformed baptist church and I’m still trying to wrap my mind around both the 1689 and the Westminster Confession. John Piper has been my go to during many trials. I’ve gone so far as to identify him as a well spoken pastor and brother. In this video, you’ve opened my eyes to the gospel that he is preaching. It saddens me, but I can’t deny the truth. Thank you for your discernment. May the Lord continue to bless you, your family, and your ministry.
If works were required to get to heaven, Jesus could never have promised the thief on the cross that He would see him in heaven that same day.
This was the first thing that came to my mind also. The guy went from the cross to paradise without the apparent works necessary. Either Jesus lied, or he arbitrarily makes exceptions to the rule. Maybe the thief on the cross is an over simplified example, but there's a reason this man's story has been forever gifted to us in Scripture.
On days when I am so disappointed with myself, God’s grace and the testimony of the thief on the cross brings me back to rejoicing in the gift of my salvation. It is of Him and through Him and to Him. I am grateful that Jesus opened my heart to say yes.
@@beagalulu2no one goes to heaven when they die
@@roslyn1143 Either you've never read the Bible or you don't believe the Bible, which makes you ill-equipped to be participating in this subject. You're talking about a different subject altogether. As for now, this particular subject is above your pay grade mainly because your lacking the basic foundation. You're trying to do long division before you've learned basic addition. It's great that you're here, if you seek truth, you will find it. God help you dear friend.
Amen to this teaching !
Everyone who can fall away will.
Saved by faith alone
In Christ alone
In God alone. Then go on produce fruit worthy of repentance ❤
The faith is meritess and dies not save you we cannot boast my faith saved me
No, it's God's grace, and the blood of his son that saves you.
He did not have to save those that have faith in him, but through grace he promised to.
Correction: you can't produce fruit before you repent. Repentance is the "vehicle" that takes you to salvation. After you're saved, then you will start producing fruit which is evidence your salvation was genuine and not something you tried to manufacture by saying some magical little prayer or some such thing.
@@pearlyq3560 sure you can.
Many lost un believing sinners produce more good fruit and sin way less than believers, some of which who try to use grace as an license to sin freely with added man made tulip and osas systemic doctrines that seem to indicate you cannot fall away from the faith or ever become a non believer or commit apostacy after once believing.
You lose that free will ability they say.
Things Jesus warms us against doing.
.so they become at best like warm worldly hyper grace sin freely christians that Jesus spits out of his mouth and they blame their evil thoughts and sins and lack of fruit not on themselves like they should but instead on Gods divine decree that has already scripted everything unchangedbly including their sin and lack of good fruit.
And at worst they do commit apostasy and believe in Jesus no more and as Jesus says fall away from the faith.
And all current unbelieverss are not saved regardless of if they believed in the past or not.
Take care 🤔🥰🙏
I am so thankful for your clarification!! I was following Pastor John Piper for a while in the past. I was inspired and encouraged by many of his sermons and talks, but I was also feeling confused and frustrated. I never really knew why but stopped following him. Now with your clarification I can understand everything better. Thank you so much!!
Thank you for this brother.
Hello there praise the Lord who ever is reading this, the Bible says by grace we have been saved through faith, after we have been saved through faith we become the just,now The just shall live by faith amen
Hi Pastor! I know there is a follow up video as well, so I will be watching that. In the meantime, thank you for unpacking what Piper is teaching and contrasting it with the true Gospel. Iron sharpens Iron. Thanks!
Thank you John Piper
I would love a video explaining if there is a difference between salvation and entering the kingdom of God. Been struggling with this lately.
This is blowing my mind
You summed it up well and fairly: "What he [Piper] has made clear, is that having God one hundred percent for you aint enough to get you into heaven."
If Piper wants to get into heaven by works, he is a debtor to keep the entire law. How can he twist James that way? James literally said in the preceding verses that "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." So, if Piper is relying on his works which are a fruit of his belief, then Piper's works which are a fruit of his belief must be flawless.
If we are being judged by infused righteousness, then we are not being judged by imputed righteousness. The entire effect of the sermon is to persuade the agreer that Rome are right about infused righteousness and the Church are wrong about imputed righteousness.
One thing I know is that for someone to be an unbeliever he/she must not believe the Gospel. Thus, in the case of a professed believer who is not actually a believer, one (or both) of two conditions are so: either he/she does not genuinely believe what he/she confesses to believe, or else the "gospel" which he/she believes is somehow not the Gospel (or both).
This is wrong. He does not preach works based salvation.
@@Three721 Piper's words refute your claim. Pastor Hines has done a fine job of clarifying the matter, so I'll leave it at that.
Pastor Piper is not expressing a requirement of works to get into heaven, he is delineating the two kinds of faith. Dead faith, faith that has no works because it is not faith wholly reliant on Christ, and true living faith, faith that necessarily causes works. The one does nothing, the other does everything. Having “faith” is not enough if it is the wrong faith. How then shall we be saved? BY faith that is EVIDENCED by our good works.
The entire sermon, when listened to in whole and without interruption, more accurately portrays Piper’s closing point that we cannot “live like the devil” and go to heaven. We must live a regenerated life, and that life is a necessary result of our regeneration that happens when we place faith in Christ and his saving grace.
@@elsko3071 And those works are required to finalize our justification, so that it is not Christ's works alone by which we are justified, but instead our own works contribute to our justification. Scripture specifies that if it is by works, then it's not by grace. Piper's tongue is forked.
In reality, if we have ever sinned, then our own works are invalid to contribute to our justification.
A gospel in which our own works contribute to our justification, is a different gospel, and cannot save. I understand how Piper tries to manipulate the matter, to give us an excuse to approve of his false gospel.
Please do not follow Piper to everlasting destruction. If you reject the notion that your works contribute to your justification, then you don't agree with Piper's false gospel, and that is worthy of my rejoicing.
Amen the people understand the seed
To my ears, John Piper, whom I have occasionally listened to previously, speaks in what seems to be a very emotive style that makes biblical truths too fluid (which could easily be confusing to those on milk) through his over use of imaginative descriptive speech. I prefer straight talking with scripture, as you do your preaching, Patrick!
Piper doesn't seem to mention when one is Born Again or Regenerated or a New Creation and apparently in his view it can't happen until you enter Heaven.
This is hard because you are defending your position before your audience even hears what John Piper is saying here…
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, PATIENCE, kindness, goodness, faithfulness (Galatians 5:22)
I appreciate the order
Please listen to Piper’s entire sermon then. There’s a link to it.
James is referring to showing others your faith is from God by the works it produces. "I will show YOU my faith by my works" James is not saying we show God our faith is true by our works.
Why would we need to prove our faith to God if it came from God? Its like Piper is saying God verifies our faith by our works and lets us in to heaven because of the fruit.
Does he believe people can have faith from God but lack the works to make it saving faith, if not why would works be counted in the final analysis?
If all true faith is going to produce works(the works God has ordained beforehand for us to do in our sanctification) why the need for verification? What is it some kind of prevenient faith? Do your works improve upon the faith God gave? So the faith God gives is not sufficient by itself to save? May it never be! How does God get all the glory for that? Soli deo gloria!
It is painful listening to you repeating your defence before letting us hear Piper. Sorry brother this is not helpful
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, PATIENCE, kindness, goodness, faithfulness (Galatians 5:22)
@@ChristisLordwhat kind of response is this?
Yes, it is kind of "painful listening" for some. But try ask God to grant us the "Patience" (a fruit of the Spirit) that we needed so much in this instance of trying to understand the Truth. And the Truth will set you free. Ask God for patience and wisdom and He will open our eyes....@@simonbrown1486
A scriptural one.
@@ChristisLord You have quoted Scripture to be sure, but out of context, apparently as a snide quip and displaying none of the fruits of the spirit quoted in that Scripture.
Iknow what you mean, trying to defend salvation by faith alone, we cannot let any muddying of the waters at all.
Faith+Nothing =Salvation
Because it takes energy to work
On this I agree with Piper. What do you do with all the testimonies that bare witness to millions of Christians are in Hell today? Unconfessed bitterness, unforgiveness, immoral thoughts, etc. sends them to Hell. Answer me this (around the 56:00 mark) if it were simply on Christ’s imputation of righteousness that will grant us access into Heaven, then why do we even need to pursue holiness and righteousness on our own?
Here’s another question: when Jesus said “go and sin no more,” what did he exactly mean? Another question: when Jesus said that broad was the road to perdition and narrow is the road to eternal life “AND FEW WILL FIND IT,” what did he mean exactly? These are the words of God Himself. Another question: what did Jesus mean when he said that “Many are called, but FEW are chosen”? These Scriptural truths are inconsistent to what you’re attempting to argue.
Piper's sloppy and irrational leaven spoils his whole lump. He's cherry picking the Solas.
THANK YOU. I came out of legalistic Pentecost and def need to re-listen to some of this where you talked about mortifying the deeds of the flesh and a few other places. Legalists will take Ezekiel 18:24 and say if you sin and don't repent of it and die, you're damned. Talk about a sin conscious gospel and walking in fear! I like to say they've rewritten Heb. 10:14 (and a few others!!!!) to say, "For by one offering he hath perfected until they sin the next time them that are sanctified." I like the way you word things; I will try to find some of your prior videos on this subject.
Good works dont save you, they are just evidence of your salvation.
Gods grace saves you, and God has decided promised to save those that have faith in him.
Through Jesus blood sacrifice.
Not even the faith saves you.
God does alone , he has simply promised to save those with faith in his son.
God does not force you to have faith for salvation and even after salvation, you can choose to fall away from the faith, by no longer believing.
Can someone help point to the basis for Patrick's argument that Piper is differentiating between "justification" and "getting into heaven"? I have a hard time seeing it that way. I hear Piper painting a picture of what saving faith looks like. Also, multiple times Pastor Patrick mocks Piper's delivery....not sure how helpful that is.
Jesus was severe with the Pharisees, calling them "whitewashed tombs" (Matt. 23:27), "hypocrites" (Mark 7:6), and sons of the devil (John 8:44). And yet, in Matt. 5:20, He points to them as He raises the bar for righteousness: "For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."
Jesus calls righteousness a requirement for getting into heaven. Some may want to downplay this statement out of a right concern for guarding salvation by grace alone through faith alone. But this statement is not about earning our way into heaven. Rather, it speaks to the function of righteousness and the law of God in the life of the Christian.
By perfectly obeying God's law, Christ merited righteousness for those who trust in Him. This we might call positional righteousness. Christ perfectly fulfilled the law in a way that the Pharisees, for all their scrupulousness, never could. And that flawless obedience counts for those who trust in Him, just as if they had perfectly kept the law themselves.
But Christ means something more. Throughout the Sermon on the Mount, He calls Christians to a deep understanding of and radical obedience to the law as reflective of the character of God (Matt. 5:48). Christians dare not treat His law lightly, because how we view God's law indicates how we view God Himself (Rom. 3:21). Thus, Christians are called to joyful obedience to His law out of love for Christ. This obedience bears practical righteousness.
This righteousness is not the basis of our salvation; we cannot merit justification by our works (Rom. 3:21-22). But it exceeds that of the Pharisees because their obedience did not come from the heart. And it is a mark that we have truly been saved and thus will enter the kingdom of heaven.
The righteousness that issues from this joyful obedience exceeds that of the Pharisees in kind rather than degree. Those of us who are in Christ have been saved from the law of God as the necessary means of salvation, but we have also been saved to the law of God as a way of loving and worshiping the God who has saved us (Rom. 6:19).
- written by Kevin Gardner, Ligonier Ministries
Sept. 25,2015
Romans 8.13
transcript 41:51 "that's the gospel" i must add "Christ in you the hope of Glory"
transcript 45:45 ' theological poison ' shoot i got this video on .75x
Of course "NOT by Faith Alone": it's by grace, through faith.
Works are useful as evidence of salvation. When you find you desire them, not that you can force yourself to them. I want to do God's will as an appreciative child not under fear of expulsion from the family. I know how horrible my heart is and when i find myself desiring to do good it's proof of God's work in me.
As far as the argument - at first I thought this might be one of those semantic disagreements where people are saying the same thing but in a different way.. for instance 'works are required because if you didn't have works you didn't have the faith and faith is really what is required.' When he talked about his 'position where God is 100% for you though' and then heaven on top of that is a different thing, to me it really seemed like he is preaching works and faith as two separate things, and both being required for heaven. Scary.
One more edit because I don't think this passage was mentioned : 1 Cor 3 (emphasis added)
12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, *he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.*
If you believe in jesus as your savior you are saved.
Catholic protestant eastern Orthodox etc.
You do not have to be ashamed of your good works or holiness or following holy commandments, just know those do not save you, but they are evidence if y5our salvation, sanctification, and Christian growth
.
Its the belief in the savior for your sins.
That Jesus makes a condition, and yet that faith belief still does not save you, God does.
.the faith has no merit.
But God's grace saves and he has promised to save those that believe, and he does not lie.
Your good works are evidence of your salvation and christ working in your life producing good fruit.
But they don't save you.
That does not mean stop doing them or using grace as a license to sin freely, God forbid.
My understanding of the mustard seed is that it is a hypothetical mustard seed "which indeed is the least of all seeds". This is not when the Lord speaks of moving a mountain (that is in chapter 17, the statement about the smallest seed is in chapter 13).
"Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field: which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof."
My understanding, is that the smallness of the Kingdom Of Heaven seed is even smaller than any real seed, and then it grows especially large, so the smallness is meant to go beyond the smallness of a real mustard seed. At least, if someone wants to use this as a proof that the Bible has an inaccuracy in it, then he must prove that the seed is not hypothetical but rather it is meant to be a statement about real mustard seeds. I mean, I really don't think Lord Jesus would have been making any special point if He was just describing a regular mustard seed growing into what it would regularly grow into; seems the whole point is that this seed is astonishing and special. I think the seed refers to Lord Jesus going to the cross, though I personally wouldn't call that a small seed, but I think that may be what is being referred to.
You do know Piper is a Calvinists, which means predestination before you are born gets you saved into heaven.
Not jesus not faith which are secondary and cannot happen except you were already predestined.
That's not Calvinism. Sorry, read up on it.
@@johntoddstewart2183 you should be sorry, as there are quite a few forms of Calvinism, you should read up on them from hyper, to moderate 1 2 3 4 5 points and so on.
What you should say is that's not .... My personal form of Calvinism, or here is where I disagree, or I have a different or multiple meaning to those words proof texts doctrines teachings in my presumptions and practice of the systematic.
MacArthur Piper White Sproul Calvin Augustine all will disagree on certain aspects of reform theology.
When you mention what one of the say even vote it word for word, another Calvinists not knowing the source will simply say to none Calvinists or even for er Calvinists, you don't understand Calvinism as there first defense.
God bless you and keep reading up on it, as you have shown in this video ironically, there is disagreement on key points among Calvinists leaders, so to be dogmatic and say that ain't calvinism, is revealing and disingenuous on its face .
🙏🫶🥰🫣🤔😊
Good exposure Patrick. This is a big, big issue today. For there so many I call Professors of Christ and not many Posessors of Christ. This is really the difference between Religious Christianty and Relationship Christianty. Which are diametrically opposed to one another. Religion is placebo putting the professor in a state of self deception.
I would not waste time on someone's talking about being saved by work, All They have to do is read the Bible,by grace we have been saved through faith.
you should perhaps read the epistle of James right after you read Romans...😀 Luther choked on it/epistle of James/,but you'll be all right😀
That SA seed may not have been created yet then
Heaven is a consequence of saving faith it is not the goal. Jesus came not just to make heaven available but to restore the image of God marred in the Garden by sin.😅
Anybody can say I have faith in Jesus Christ. So how do we encourage people to understand real faith vs fake faith.
Scripture is providing a guide on how a person who has real faith in Jesus Christ lives. James 2:14
These works are not be confused with Justification by works.
1.Genuine faith results in good works.
But the opposite is not true.
2. Good works does not produce faith.
Dr Piper is emphasising 1.
You probably are interpreting his speech as 2.
Not interpreting a thing. Piper states we are “finally saved through that fruit and that faith.” That’s a false gospel.
It’s very hard to concentrate on what Piper is saying when you interrupt him every five seconds I had to stop listening
Is this your gospel or ministry? Show respect and love to solid bible teacher like piper...
Piper supports CRT this shows us how he got there
Piper is wrong on the gospel…. Sadly.
We love all "solid bible teachers". But sometimes, some of our beloved "teachers" say wrong things (even false teachings). In these instances, we need to seek God and ask the "Holy Spirit" in us to opens our eyes and mind and the seek the Truth. We can realise the ultimate Truth only when we go and seek God directly on this "matter/subject" (forget about our beloved "solid bible teachers" for a moment, we still love them, like we love our friends, parents, etc.). Be serious with God and seek Him for the Truth on this matter directly. May the Lord grant us that humility to seek Him earnestly that we may be found of Him - So seek and Ye shall find, Knock and it will be open unto you. May the Truth set us free so that we may continue in our journey with Christ on this earth.
Never was a fan of Piper. For me he was always off. I call him the Pied Piper leading many astray.
The Trinity Foundation actually has an excellent article titled The Pied Piper.
not a big fan of piper but the _pleasures of God_ was monumental in my life. _future grace_ was meh. don't remember a thing. couldn't get past his ridiculous poem in _desiring God_
Piper is clearly wrong, but there is also much wrong in what you are saying. First, there is no such thing as repent AND believe. The original sin we are all conceived in is unbelief and this is inherited from Adam, which is what the fall of man in the garden was based on, the eating of the fruit was merely a work based on that unbelief. As unbelief was responsible for the fall of man and the breaking of fellowship with God, the undoing of that unbelief by belief is also what is responsible for the restoration of fellowship with God which is what salvation is! Repentance then is the change from that unbelief of God to believing him. Like the work that followed unbelief did not look conventionally evil (as in the feeding of oneself), so the works that follow belief will generally be unconventional as detailed below.
Faith alone justifies us before God, but what we do with that faith is what justifies God before unbelieving men. The works used as an example in James 2 should make that clear. The works that both Abraham and Rahab were commended for both broke commandments; Abraham's attempted murder 1 of his own son breaks the sixth, and Rahab's lie breaks the ninth. Neither of these can justify a man before God by any keeping of the law, BUT they are great examples of people who trust God in spite of commandments or any other means of self justification. In doing this, they make God real before man, thereby justifying God before men.
"First, there is no such thing as repent AND believe."
Mark 1:14 Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”
LOL "[He calls it] a work-faith; he calls it the obedience of faith"... haha. So, for Piper, to obey the Gospel is not to rest from our works, but instead it's to do the works which are the fruit of our belief. If Piper doesn't know the basics, then maybe he should stop speaking publicly on the topic (only not maybe, but rather for sure).
Due to his son (an anti-Christian Tik Toker), Piper is specifically disqualified from ministry (Titus ch1 v6); no one should think God is wrong to disqualify Piper.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!