Here in Northern England we have had a Bruckner weekend and I am pleased to say that the 1600 odd seating hall was just about sold out. We had the symphonies 7,8, and 9, his great mass, and a string quintet. The 8th was by the Halle with Elder conducting and a standout performance. Happy Bruckner Bicentennial!
The Bruckner society have what they call a "Brucknerthon" in which they play every Bruckner symphony, tip to toe... Even for a B fan like me, that would take some doing...🙂
Bohm and Klemperer are my favorites. I love the Bohm for Vienna’s playing and overall sound but I also love the energy of Klemperer. I’d be happy with either.
Bruckner, and especially the Fourth, always makes me think of the Alps (which I know very well from the other side): It's his whole sense of grandeur and steep effort, maybe, and such things as the opening horn call that make me feel kind of near my mountains. I think that is what makes him so Austrian, and therefore Viennese.
Was introduced to Bruckner 4th by Klemperer and Karajan, both on EMI CDs bought and listened to. Always only (and unseriously) heard of Böhm but had the ear opening experience which you describe (I think, especially after Karajan) with... Steinberg. So I know now I can quite sincerely like the work and, with your Word, will try the reference. Thank you
Regarding Böhm's Bruckner legacy in the studio, there is also a fine B5 with the Sächsische Staatskapelle Dresden. A pre-war recording, for sure, but in surprisingly fine sound.
Interesting choice Dave. I was prepared to offer objections, but as i listened, i see and agree with your post. I realized my objections were for MY favorites and preferences. I think the Wand Berlin is in the same type of interpretation. My preferences Jochum, Berlin is due to its more forward momentum, and drama. But you're right, the sound, the orchestra and pace , its Bohm.
I'm not much of a Bruckner fan, but I heard this performance of the 4th on the radio and was captivated. Got the two LP set that you couldn't afford and I just barely did way back when. Now have the single CD release in my collection. Still an amazing performance. Who does your horse sound, Mister ED? yuk yuk THANKS DAVE...
Yesterday evening Zubin Mehta performed this with the Israeli Philharmonic in Tel Aviv. So yesterday I wanted to say "Dave your timing is perfect with this", and then in the concert I just wished you were there - I have no skills or experience for a knowledgeable "review" of the performance, but I hope my love for music, for Bruckner and for this piece is enough: this was a superb Bruckner 4 and you would have enjoyed and appreciate, and Maestro have not grown younger but is evidently in better shape then as seen a few months ago. Now I wish for him good health and hope next year he will return for Mahler 2\5\6...
Thanks for the reminder. After not listening to it for a long while, I revisited this thoroughly great Böhm recording. Good minor point also about Jochum being unfairly pigeonholed as a Bruckner guy.
I just received and auditioned my Böhm Bruckner 4 to add to my Hurwitz recommended / reference Bruckner recordings (I have all of them) and I can honestly say that this is the best performance I have heard. I have 4-12 versions of each Bruckner Symphony (except for 0 and 00 which I am not purchasing) on disc and the Hurwitz versions are clearly superior.
Dave: I haven't heard Bohm's version in 30 years, but I dusted it off, gave it a listen, and I can readily understand it's "Reference Status." While it's not the first version that comes to my mind, I understand the logic behind its selection. So far I note that you haven't risked the wrath of the Bruckner cultists, yet; but give it time, there sure to show up before too long...and wear protective head gear. :)
I remember the first Bruckner recording I ever saw: the Fourth Symphony conducted by Herrmann Abendroth on Urania, which like the original issue of the Böhm/Vienna was spread out over four sides, one movement per side. It was in a bound album with sleeves made of card stock like most 78 rpm albums. I was struck by the idea that a symphony could be so long it was stretched out so each movement took an entire side!
Spot on with this selection, and Böhm's Third should follow. One particularly good moment is near the beginning of the finale, about 2:30 in, where the horns have the main open fifths theme. This is often obscured by the trumpets, but Böhm balances it out perfectly.
I got this version of the 4th with Bohm and the Vienna Philharmonic at the end of the 70s....A London LP (made in Canada) where we found the complete symphonies.....the furrows were so packed that the sound was compressed and I'm not talking about the distortion at the end of the disc.....fortunately the CD arrived shortly after and I was able to listen to this version in correct sound this time.. .
Thanks so much for the brilliant talk on Bohm's Bruckner 4. The first recording I heard was by Konwitschny. Am I the only person to have first liked Bruckner because of the 4th's scherzo? After the subsequent tsunami of Brukner. Bohm's 4th was possibly in danger of being overlooked and you've reminded us of its stature. For me it stands between Klemperer's craggy rendition and Celibidache's (if only for the last five minutes, once heard never forgotten).
Hi, Dave. Firstly I would like to thank you for your precious "little" talks. I have a huge collection of classical music, and I just needed some good guidance where to begin, and what to appreciate more. I'm not an expert by any means, on the contrary, but I would like to learn. I was just listening to the Bruckner's Fourth last couple of days, and it was Jochum's version on DG (your recommendation). As a enthusiast I can tell that this grandiose piece is not for strict and rigorous conductors. But in lighter hands, with all its nuances, it can sound marvelous and seductive. It has a hidden ability to blossom, and I find it wonderful. Looking forward to hearing this version too. Greetings from Balkan. Cheers!
Like me Jovan, we all owe a massive debt to David Hurwitz for not only the brilliant guy who suggests the top class CD of a work, but moreover for being our daily music teacher.. unlike none other.
You know a Bruckner looney called Sebastian Letocart? He says Bruckner is often played very slow and he had issues with the "allá breve" indication. He has his " correct tempi" versions in RUclips where he uses bits of recordings and some audio processing software.
Letocart is a very well educated and experienced musician and composer. He has closely studied Bruckner's music for many years and while one need not agree with his views, he is not a "looney."
No, he is actually looney. He has no concept of how art really works. He is destined for a life of "nobody gets me" not because nobody gets him, but because they actually do and he isn't all that he thinks he is.
I suspect that the rationale for the original release of this performance on 4 LP sides was that it would allow for much better sound quality. Fitting a symphony like the 4th onto one LP inevitably means that the signal needs to be compressed, especially the low bass. Also the grooves have to go much closer to the center of the disc, which increases distortion. I guess we will never know for sure whether it made a difference or not, since you would have to have a single LP pressing of this exact same recording to compare it to. I have heard other recordings of the 4th that were on a single LP and know that at least some of them did have noticeable sound limitations. (Also, putting it on 2 LPs made it twice as expensive, which might signify "better" in the eyes of a potential purchaser)
I guess it has to be this one or Wand’s Berlin recording, many reviewers recommend both. But since Böhm’s recording has been around longer and he is the most famous of the two it is natural to use this one as a reference recording.
Right now I was trying to guess more reference recordings: Pulcinella Abbado - Mahler 2nd Mehta - Brandenburg Pinnock (not sure about modern instruments)... And this one was another obvious candidate.
Dave, which Klemperer Bruckner 4th? Studio on EMI? Live on EMI w/Bavarian Radio? Studio with Vienna Symphony on Archipel? Live on WDR label with WDR Sinfonieorchester Koln? Thanks.
I think Bruckner, like Mahler, has become so much more popular and recorded so often now by everybody because first the CD, CD box sets and then streaming made it so much more convenient to listen to such long symphonies in their entirety without interruption, scratched lp's etc. Bohm does a beautiful job here and it's certainly one of the greats. My first purchase of Bruckner's 4th was the DG Jochum, and it got me going on Bruckner, for which I'll be forever grateful. So it has an advantage over Karl as far as my ref. recording goes. I agree with you about Karajan's 4th. He got it for the 7th and 8th but everything else is pretty tiresome.
I bought the EMI box of Bruckner 4 and 7 by HvK and decided I was not a Bruckner fan. The Bohm Fourth is truly splendid. As is the Schuricht Hague and the Rosbaud Baden-Baden.
Here in Northern England we have had a Bruckner weekend and I am pleased to say that the 1600 odd seating hall was just about sold out. We had the symphonies 7,8, and 9, his great mass, and a string quintet. The 8th was by the Halle with Elder conducting and a standout performance. Happy Bruckner Bicentennial!
The Bruckner society have what they call a "Brucknerthon" in which they play every Bruckner symphony, tip to toe... Even for a B fan like me, that would take some doing...🙂
Not really. You'd just have to sit there and listen.
Thank you for this. I shall play it at tonight’s Bruckner Cult meeting!
Bohm and Klemperer are my favorites. I love the Bohm for Vienna’s playing and overall sound but I also love the energy of Klemperer. I’d be happy with either.
Bruckner, and especially the Fourth, always makes me think of the Alps (which I know very well from the other side): It's his whole sense of grandeur and steep effort, maybe, and such things as the opening horn call that make me feel kind of near my mountains. I think that is what makes him so Austrian, and therefore Viennese.
Was introduced to Bruckner 4th by Klemperer and Karajan, both on EMI CDs bought and listened to. Always only (and unseriously) heard of Böhm but had the ear opening experience which you describe (I think, especially after Karajan) with... Steinberg. So I know now I can quite sincerely like the work and, with your Word, will try the reference. Thank you
Regarding Böhm's Bruckner legacy in the studio, there is also a fine B5 with the Sächsische Staatskapelle Dresden. A pre-war recording, for sure, but in surprisingly fine sound.
This is a truly splendid recording start to finish. It has the “thrill factor” of the coda that some other recordings lack. Thanks, Dave!
Interesting choice Dave. I was prepared to offer objections, but as i listened, i see and agree with your post. I realized my objections were for MY favorites and preferences. I think the Wand Berlin is in the same type of interpretation. My preferences Jochum, Berlin is due to its more forward momentum, and drama. But you're right, the sound, the orchestra and pace , its Bohm.
I'm not much of a Bruckner fan, but I heard this performance of the 4th on the radio and was captivated. Got the two LP set that you couldn't afford and I just barely did way back when. Now have the single CD release in my collection. Still an amazing performance. Who does your horse sound, Mister ED? yuk yuk THANKS DAVE...
I have that as part pf the first "Decca 50" box. It is the only one of those boxes. I bought.
Yesterday evening Zubin Mehta performed this with the Israeli Philharmonic in Tel Aviv. So yesterday I wanted to say "Dave your timing is perfect with this", and then in the concert I just wished you were there - I have no skills or experience for a knowledgeable "review" of the performance, but I hope my love for music, for Bruckner and for this piece is enough: this was a superb Bruckner 4 and you would have enjoyed and appreciate, and Maestro have not grown younger but is evidently in better shape then as seen a few months ago. Now I wish for him good health and hope next year he will return for Mahler 2\5\6...
Thanks for the reminder. After not listening to it for a long while, I revisited this thoroughly great Böhm recording. Good minor point also about Jochum being unfairly pigeonholed as a Bruckner guy.
I just received and auditioned my Böhm Bruckner 4 to add to my Hurwitz recommended / reference Bruckner recordings (I have all of them) and I can honestly say that this is the best performance I have heard. I have 4-12 versions of each Bruckner Symphony (except for 0 and 00 which I am not purchasing) on disc and the Hurwitz versions are clearly superior.
Thank you for your vote of confidence. I'm thrilled that you enjoyed the performance!
Dave: I haven't heard Bohm's version in 30 years, but I dusted it off, gave it a listen, and I can readily understand it's "Reference Status." While it's not the first version that comes to my mind, I understand the logic behind its selection. So far I note that you haven't risked the wrath of the Bruckner cultists, yet; but give it time, there sure to show up before too long...and wear protective head gear. :)
I remember the first Bruckner recording I ever saw: the Fourth Symphony conducted by Herrmann Abendroth on Urania, which like the original issue of the Böhm/Vienna was spread out over four sides, one movement per side. It was in a bound album with sleeves made of card stock like most 78 rpm albums. I was struck by the idea that a symphony could be so long it was stretched out so each movement took an entire side!
Spot on with this selection, and Böhm's Third should follow. One particularly good moment is near the beginning of the finale, about 2:30 in, where the horns have the main open fifths theme. This is often obscured by the trumpets, but Böhm balances it out perfectly.
Absolutely!
I got this version of the 4th with Bohm and the Vienna Philharmonic at the end of the 70s....A London LP (made in Canada) where we found the complete symphonies.....the furrows were so packed that the sound was compressed and I'm not talking about the distortion at the end of the disc.....fortunately the CD arrived shortly after and I was able to listen to this version in correct sound this time.. .
That's exactly the recording I've got. I like it, you can actually hear the french horns..
Thanks so much for the brilliant talk on Bohm's Bruckner 4. The first recording I heard was by Konwitschny. Am I the only person to have first liked Bruckner because of the 4th's scherzo? After the subsequent tsunami of Brukner. Bohm's 4th was possibly in danger of being overlooked and you've reminded us of its stature. For me it stands between Klemperer's craggy rendition and Celibidache's (if only for the last five minutes, once heard never forgotten).
Hi, Dave. Firstly I would like to thank you for your precious "little" talks. I have a huge collection of classical music, and I just needed some good guidance where to begin, and what to appreciate more. I'm not an expert by any means, on the contrary, but I would like to learn. I was just listening to the Bruckner's Fourth last couple of days, and it was Jochum's version on DG (your recommendation). As a enthusiast I can tell that this grandiose piece is not for strict and rigorous conductors. But in lighter hands, with all its nuances, it can sound marvelous and seductive. It has a hidden ability to blossom, and I find it wonderful. Looking forward to hearing this version too. Greetings from Balkan. Cheers!
Like me Jovan, we all owe a massive debt to David Hurwitz for not only the brilliant guy who suggests the top class CD of a work, but moreover for being our daily music teacher.. unlike none other.
You know a Bruckner looney called Sebastian Letocart? He says Bruckner is often played very slow and he had issues with the "allá breve" indication. He has his " correct tempi" versions in RUclips where he uses bits of recordings and some audio processing software.
Letocart is a very well educated and experienced musician and composer. He has closely studied Bruckner's music for many years and while one need not agree with his views, he is not a "looney."
No, he is actually looney. He has no concept of how art really works. He is destined for a life of "nobody gets me" not because nobody gets him, but because they actually do and he isn't all that he thinks he is.
I suspect that the rationale for the original release of this performance on 4 LP sides was that it would allow for much better sound quality. Fitting a symphony like the 4th onto one LP inevitably means that the signal needs to be compressed, especially the low bass. Also the grooves have to go much closer to the center of the disc, which increases distortion. I guess we will never know for sure whether it made a difference or not, since you would have to have a single LP pressing of this exact same recording to compare it to. I have heard other recordings of the 4th that were on a single LP and know that at least some of them did have noticeable sound limitations. (Also, putting it on 2 LPs made it twice as expensive, which might signify "better" in the eyes of a potential purchaser)
I guess it has to be this one or Wand’s Berlin recording, many reviewers recommend both. But since Böhm’s recording has been around longer and he is the most famous of the two it is natural to use this one as a reference recording.
Right now I was trying to guess more reference recordings: Pulcinella Abbado - Mahler 2nd Mehta - Brandenburg Pinnock (not sure about modern instruments)... And this one was another obvious candidate.
Another fantastic talk. I find you particularly interesting on Bruckner - a bit of refreshing irreverence.
Dave, which Klemperer Bruckner 4th? Studio on EMI? Live on EMI w/Bavarian Radio? Studio with Vienna Symphony on Archipel? Live on WDR label with WDR Sinfonieorchester Koln? Thanks.
Yes.
I think Bruckner, like Mahler, has become so much more popular and recorded so often now by everybody because first the CD, CD box sets and then streaming made it so much more convenient to listen to such long symphonies in their entirety without interruption, scratched lp's etc. Bohm does a beautiful job here and it's certainly one of the greats. My first purchase of Bruckner's 4th was the DG Jochum, and it got me going on Bruckner, for which I'll be forever grateful. So it has an advantage over Karl as far as my ref. recording goes. I agree with you about Karajan's 4th. He got it for the 7th and 8th but everything else is pretty tiresome.
Blücher!
Yep.
I bought the EMI box of Bruckner 4 and 7 by HvK and decided I was not a Bruckner fan. The Bohm Fourth is truly splendid. As is the Schuricht Hague and the Rosbaud Baden-Baden.
Those Bruckner people! 😄