I’ve Figured Out Why Your 390 FE Engine Is Burning Oil
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
- After pulling the Galaxie's Big Block out it was time to figure out what was happening in this 60 year old monster.
The heads come off. the oil pan is pulled and a couple of pistons are removed! But is the issue immediately obvious? Watch and find out!
#shiftpoints #engine #ford #fe #enginerebuilding #csi #car #automotive #galaxie
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I'm not sure how youtube recommended your channel to me, but I have a few comments. I used to race the Ford big blocks back in the day and have a few suggestions. The top end of these engines always had enough oil, in fact in some cases too much. We used to put restrictors in the oil feeds under the rocker arms. As others have mentioned, check for wear on the rocker shafts and inside the rockers, make sure the shafts are assembled correctly, check valve stem/guide clearances and use good umbrella type valve seals. Look closely (use a magnifying glass) at the rings for tale tale scratches on the wear surfaces. Also check ring end gap in the cylinder and piston ring groove dimensions.
@@05c50 that is great info! Thank you for watching and letting us know that I will for sure be doing some additional checking on that!
I agree, valve seal and the fe engine floods the top end with oil. put restrictions in the block during rebuild.
All Ford V8's that I've had apart were stamped on the rods from the factory. The factory head gaskets should have been a .026" steel shim head gasket with no coating. Heads were most likely off to fix up exhaust flanges or a valve job. Another thing to check is make sure the rocker shafts have the oil grooves for the rockers facing DOWN, if someone installed them facing up it's been known to cause them to smoke.
That is good to know! I am going to have to ask and see if we have any records for this car somewhere. I am very curious what they did when they had the heads off!
@@shift_points Resurfacing the exhaust manifold flanges is my guess, or they broke a bunch of bolts off taking the exhaust manifolds off.
@MattsRageFitGarage That's possible. The exhaust manifold had been off because one of the ears had been welded back on. They were also cracked in multiple places by the time I got it too.
Im building a 1968 mercury 390 my oil rings are not stuck or tack spots on them… keep us posted the rods are stamped and it has steel head gaskets
Those are 2v pistons. Yes the heads have been off of that engine. Those felpro head gaskets are .050 thick. The factory head gaskets are round & more like .020 - .023 thick. Those look to be C4AE-G heads. Those are good heads. But they might have guides worn out? Like others have said you can restrict oil going to the top. I like to open the oil feed oil in the block were the oil pump bolts to the block. & in the heads under the rocker stand i like to tap that hole with a 5/16 - 18 tap & then i buy a plug & i drill a .093 size hole in that plug. It restricts 2/3 the oil going to the top & redirects it to the main bearings.
Those rods are stamped like that from the factory.
Side note!!! The rear cam plug is supposed to be put in backwards from all other engines!! If it looks the same as other engines its wrong!!! If it looks backwards its correct!!
@@jesseduke694 man I appreciate all that info. I'll be looking into all of that as we go forward. I had no idea about the over oiling problem these engines had! Thanks for watching and subscribing!
I saw that one of the plugs was black with carbon on one side of the center electrode, and the other side was fairly white. I'd guess that the valve guides and seals are allowing oil to bypass. That is probably not the entire answer, but I'd bet it is contributing to the problem. My guess is that welded oil control rings are a big part of the problem.
@@garylangley4502 that's what we are thinking too! We didn't mention the guides because we were already sure they were junk. I'll take the heads apart and video that too.
My 390 has stamped rods, and steel head gasket and oil rings look normal… keep us posted thanks
@@angelgarcia4328 very good to know! Thank you! I'll keep digging and see what I can find and don't worry you will be seeing everything as I do it! Thanks for watching.
Its been gone through gentleman.
Your oil consumption is most likely coming past the intake gaskets. The way that the intake manifold sits in the valley, if the flange to cylinder head angles are off by 2 to 5 degrees.....the gaskets will allow oil past them.
The rings look fine, and the rods are numbered from Ford.
Check the intake fitment!!!!
Interesting it makes sense. Didn't notice any major misalignment when we pulled the intake! I have to disagree on the rings though. They are for sure not fine lol but it is absolutely a combination of issues. Not surprised at all at 60 years old with minimal maintenance.
@shift_points ah.....I'll have to take a closer look at the ring inspection when I'm not driving.
I'm building an FE right now. I have a few shorts showing a couple of things....
@arturozarate1752 I'll check those out!
Had a 390 that smoked like a freight train. All the valve seals fell apart and was blocking the oil returns in the heads, holding the oil in the top end. Cleaned it all out, put new seals on and the smoking stopped. Found the same problem on my dads 360 a few years later.
@@gearbanger57 we had forgot to check valve seals in this video! We assumed they were a big issue too. That's good to know! Thank you for letting me know and watching!
All ford's are stamped at the factory on the rods according to cylinder and mains are cast with the numbers.
@@jimmillet1442 that is good to know. Number 4 had a misstamp on it. You could just barely make out the top of the 4 on the cap and the bottom of a 4 on the rod.
Well that's just not true. The main caps in my 64 390 were not cast with any marking. Someone had taken a punch and put punch marks on all but the rear. The rods had stamp numbers but there were two number 4 and two number 6. This motor had been into before. Just keep them together and you are good to go.
@davidkeeton6716 sorry man but what you said is not true..both of my 64 fords were stamped as all fords are...they always have been..I've rebuilt a 58 352 and a 59 edsel 361 and those were numbered also as well as the 52 flathead v8 8 am currently rebuilding...Ford has ALWAYS numbered the rods to the cylinders and books from Ford will tell you that. Sometimes the stamps are light but they stamped all of them...I got a boss 351 engine one time for cheap because the guy could not find the brinell test marks on the crank but I knew they were probably very light..The engine had Ford trw forged pistons and a the wide front dampener so I knew it was legit..I had the crank cleaned and found the hardness mark...it was light but it was there...same thing sometimes with the rod stamps...you have to look for them.I have had 100s of Ford engines apart over the years and they are always stamped.
Good find I worked on numerous FE's own them my whole life 67 years old never seen that before.
@@PaulCTownsend I love comments like this! Thank you! We were just so confused by it initially because it was so bad!
i guess valve guide and seals !
Was the splash shields still on the heads ? Under the rocker stands ?
It’s entirely possible your oil eating issues could be more head related
I have seen oil rings made like that in some early FE’s. Some kind of weird stuff straight from ford but there should have still been some spring tension on them
Take the time to rebuild the rocker shafts too. They oil thru the shaft and I will bet money they are gunked full of crud
@@frizzellracing I have to go double check but I am fairly sure they were there! And that is good to know! We had a friend mention potential cracks in the rocker shafts but didn't see any. We have to get them disassembled though!
@ the crack that would be a issue is in the oiling stand. They are aluminum. But that’s a rare thing. I would lean towards termite valve seals and oil accumulation in in the head from worn shaft allowing excess oil pass by and just dumping oil in the top of the head and passing by the valve seals. That’s where my money would be
Pop ups and e-85 for the win!
Having owned and rebuilt one, loved it, very torquey. Would tease my Chevy friends by showing how stout the con rods were, yeah I know heavier too. Wish I had it back.
@@harrygearhart4520 The guys that love them really love them that's for sure! It's gonna get a rebuild! Going to do a head disassembly tomorrow and have it up Friday!
Had the same car , with mine it was valve guides were worn , smoked bad.
Given the age of the engine, you should have been looking at the valve guides and seals. Looks like somebody refreshed the engine but never did anything with the valve guides and or seals
@@44hawk28 we had just assumed all of that was bad already. Probably have a follow up on the head dissembly
Parts:
If you have to go through the heads(valve guides, springs, seals, etc), the cost in parts and labor may be more than new Edelbrock aluminum heads. They would be the most available option. Reliable and well built. If performance is on the mind.....😬, the Trick Flow heads were great, but impossible to obtain currently. Promax seem nice for a mild build, but there are reliability issues with high spring loads and the rocker shaft threads pulling out. BBM, Shelby, and Robert Pond would be the best choices for high performance. BBM and Shelby are most likely the only available right now. Beware the BBM....they're pricey. My client gave $4,500 for a pair and I still had to port and install springs, locks, and retainers for our application.
Precision Oil Pumps can supply the oil pump, and i highly recommend you hit Doug up for one. He blue prints each pump and does fantastic work to the internals. He also has oil pump drives, rocker stands, spacers, shafts, and rocker arms. He and his products have been great to work with.
I highly recommend Mahle piston sets. They come in really light. They're available in 4032 and 2618 with metric ring packs.
Adding some cubic inches is always a good idea. SCAT makes nice cranks and Molnar has the rods youll need.
Ive already rambled on enough. Ive used a lot of the best stuff available, and if I can lend any help I'd be happy to help.
Man I really appreciate all that info! We were having that same head discussion just a couple of days ago. I think I will go with an after market set probably the Edelbrocks. Get a little nose weight off the car too 😂 I'll for sure be checking out all the rest of this too. Thank you again!
@shift_points you bet.
Just a recommendation, have the valve job checked, and if you have the time have them ported. Nothing crazy, but the "as cast" runners really leave a lot on the table. Take care and good luck.
If you plan to push this motor a bit, replace the head, rod and main bolts with ARP bolts. Just do it. Also get a Milodon oil pump driveshaft, to go into a Melling oil pump.
I already have the ARP kit saved! 😂 Thank you for the others suggestions too!
That's worn out, needs complete rebuild valve guides will be as bad as rod bearings.😊
@@larryroberts4984 after all these comments I am ready to get the heads completely apart and see all that! Seems like we had multiple issues all going on here 😂
Just a wild guess but make sure that there isn't a missing baffle to stop oil from spraying up at the PCV valve while the engine is running. There was at least one case where a baffle (part of the inside of the rocker arm cover) was missing and a spray of oil at certain engine RPM was hitting directly at the bottom of the PCV valve and being sucked in and consumed.
@@davidpowell3347 interesting! I hadn't heard that one yet! I'll check that out!
The intake manifold isnt drawn down by the bolts. The gasket thickness is crucial. As well as the alignment of the valve cover rails.
Most likely the heads have been milled and the alignment between the manifold and heads is off. Place the manifold back on the engine with the head gaskets and heads in place. Check the valve cover rail alignment. If the manifold is higher or even with no intake gaskets in place....theres your smoking gun.
The proper amount will need to be milled from the bottom of the manifold and thicker gaskets with silicon on both sides of the gasket will be necessary to seal.
Use a gasket with a steel inner liner. Good luck.
Thank you for the info! I'll check that out!
When a lot of oil is coming past the oil control rings the piston will actually be cleaned around the outer edges. I recognize those typical replacement oil rings, never had a set stick that firmly to the expanders. Look to the heads. I have had steel "bathtub " intake gaskets have small vacuum leaks from mismatch. Heads milled at valve job, wrong sealer on gaskets can allow slight vacuum leaks. Steel intake gaskets won't break down if leaking, they just constantly draw oil mist.
@@craighansen7594 I'm for sure going to have to do a video on taking the heads apart! It seems to be what everyone thinks is the biggest issue! It should be interesting!
@@craighansen7594 thanks for watching and subscribing!
HEADS!! Did a head swap and found my valve guides and seals were shot, Replaced heads and smoke as well as oil blow by into air cleaner went away.
@@mobilmontana for sure gonna do a head tear down too! We basically assumed that they were completely shot that's why we didn't dig into them in this video! Thank you for watching!
The factory usually stamps the rods
We had found that out by the end of this too lol thank you!
I wonder if the original factory rings would've been single piece and sombody changed to these 3-piece rings (improper fit)?
I honestly haven't had a good amount of time to research it. Since it's been gone through and knowing my great uncle who was bad to go cheap on stuff. There is no telling who did what to it 😂
@shift_points Yeah, I've never seen head gaskets with funky fire rings like that either but not convinced they were leaking. Oil control ring problems will definitely fail to scavenge oil off the cylinder walls.
I'd be interested in knowing if there was tons of blow-by, I'm betting no because the upper rings were sealing.
But if the oil control rings don't properly fit then why assume the compression rings were correct, right?
@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259 it had A LOT of blow by 😂
@@shift_points Definitely a ring sealing problem.
If your FE is like my '64 390 was when I rebuilt at 100,000, you'll find at least 4 holes with enough taper they will need a 30 over bore. It's a Ford thing. Bet several of the galleries are packed pretty tight. Motor needs a basic rebuild but it's a pretty easy job.
Ford cast iron cylinder heads are best used as wheels chocks. Take them off, and get a good set of aftermarket aluminum heads.
@@Karrpilot 😂😂😂 couldn't agree more on that!
On the back of your rod bearings there is printing it'll tell you the size of the bearing who made it and the date it was made and as far as those oil wipe Rings getting stuck to the expander? Lack of oil to that piston at that point those Rings got hot for some reason and welded themselves together
@@izzynutz2000 I'll have to check these bearings! I didn't see anything on them honestly but I didn't do a close inspection. And that was one guess we had on that too! Wild that it happened on 2 and potentially more (haven't pulled the other 6 yet).
Looks like those oil rings were installed wrong. They can be tricky to get correct the expander has a ledge the ring sits on and a slight raised part that pushes the ring out. The oil rings are the most difficult part when installing the ring when done incorrectly they jamb up instead of compressing and expanding.
@@garysgarage.2841 that wouldn't surprise me! My uncle had a tendency to go with the lowest bidder for jobs like that 😂
In no particular order... Oil control issues on an FE, you need to look at it as the total package of the circulation and return. A high volume / high pressure aftermarket oil pump can flood the top end of the engine, so clean & clear return passages is important. Chunks of old crumbling valve stem oil seals can easily clog up your return passages, Ford used simple rubber umbrella seals. As mentioned by others here, the oil supply passage to the rocker shafts may need restrictors, some people use Holley carb jets, others will cut down pieces of a hollow small block valve pushrod as the oil restrictor. Worn rockers / rocker shafts can be an issue. Always run the stamped sheetmetal oil diverter plates on a street engine. As to the block, definitely check the cylinder bores to make sure someone didn't dingle ball them in to a barrel or taper.
All very good info! Thanks for watching!
Are there any dates stamped on the back sides of the rod bearings or main bearings.? That would give you a clue if bearings were put in it at some time so they say six of 82 then you would know that that was part in that time era
@@DMR67442 That will be a good thing to check! We will be doing a full disassembly now at this point so I'll check them!
@@DMR67442 thank you for watching and subscribing!
First thing you check is valve seals.
@@RandyStarkey-x3d oh yeah those are junk we were already sure of that. Just seeing what else lol
I have seen rings like that once in my life. They were in a 235 chevy, it was run hot until just seizing, cooled off fixed the water leak and then restarted.
Interesting! We have never run it hot but it may have gotten hot at some point years ago!
The rings wear out and occasionly a piston shrinks,then oil gets pulled up past rings,the heads have oil pasages too,and it seeps past the guides and walla the cause,i have a 289 in my 67 and it smokes and burns too,with a duraspark ign.system it burns all the oil with no fouling plugs,but the blue fog out the back is not groovy at all
@@steveconnolly7129 haha that's fair! This one was full on fouling plugs and everything
@shift_points haha yah i remember one motor 6 of 8 pistons loose it had so much wear,on it.
Why isn't anyone else commenting on the construction of the oil rings?I will put in my two cents having worked on oodles of old school ford and chevy v8s.I have never seen an oil ring made that way.I'd be curious how one would install the pre-assembled oil ring on the piston.I've only seen oil rings made up of three seperate pieces installed one piece at a time(two seperate scrapers and an expander).Come on old guys,have you seen this before?
I was surprised no one had really mentioned it either! I believe that is how these are supposed to also. But somehow the whole assembly has been basically spot welded together. Maybe from where it sat for so long??
@@shift_points I read one other comment on the possibility of someone welding on the car and putting their ground clamp on the crankshaft and start welding on the frame or car etc.I was warned as a youngster about damaging engine internals by doing that.I've never seen it happen,but what your showing in the video makes me wonder if that is a possible explanation.I have never seen an oilring that is welded together like that.The scrapers need to be free to expand and seal on the cylinder wall in order to scrape the oil off the cylinder walls and return the oil to the pan through the expander and oil return holes in the piston.The scrapers being ridgid to the expander is not going to allow the scraper rails to do their job.So the oilrings are for sure your oil consumption problem.Burning a quart in 100 miles would have to be either a serious leak or ring/cylinder problem.Valveguide or seal problems just wouldn't burn that volume of oil that quick.When you take your parts to your machinist show him those oilrings and let us know what he says.Good luck.
@travis48g that was our conclusion too that the rings are a huge issue here. Honestly, surprised more people havent jumped on that! If that happened we will probably never know but it is interesting and that comment is now the second person to mention a ground being hooked to it. It will be interesting to see what the machinist says! Thank you for watching and commenting!
That almost looks like tiny little spot welds! I seen a guy do some welding on an engine one time and he put the ground on the front of the crankshaft, and when he struck an Ark, it made little spot welds on the clearence in the bearings, and the engine was literally locked up! I wonder if something like that could have happened here? 17:36
@@danieljagla6469 that's so funny you mentioned that! We had this same discussion with a friend just yesterday! The exhaust manifold had been welded on this car but I would surely hope they took it off but who knows! Thanks for watching and subscribing!
Valve guide seals toast very common, plus guides worn , does it puff smoke hot then restart.
@@setha360 yeah I am expecting to see that too for sure. It basically just always smokes lol
The umbrella seals on the valve stems and worn valve guide will be your most common fault. Heavy carbon deposits on the valve stems inside the head ports is a strong indicator. Sticking oil rings and worn crank bearings will consume lots of oil. The worn crank bearings will cause excessive oil flooding of the cylinder walls.
Seems like we had a comedy of errors going on in the motor 😂
Umbrella seals will get hard and with worn valve guides, oil will get sucked down the intake ports from manifold vacuum.
@@markconley9279 that makes sense for sure! Going to have to do a video taking these heads apart too
looks like a standard piston in an oversized bore
I don't think it has been bored. The cylinder may be egg shaped though. There have been some comments mentioning they have seen that.
Have y'all guys ever heard of a GI spacer. For the old rings. Popular back in the 50, 60,s. They could have got some of the oil rings mixed up from a non GI spacer rings. Check the oil rings size in the piston 3/16
Let's see bad valve guides, PC breather system clogged up, rings oil rings are clogged up, basically the engine is worn out, put some STP in it.
Haha yes that's the conclusion for sure.
And yes I have met people who pronounce oil the same way that you do. But I'd like to remind you that there is a letter I between the O and the L
@@44hawk28 🥱🥱
“Öl,” pronounced “Earl,” roughly - Oil, in German.
Check your valve guides
@@charlesdodge8768 oh yeah for sure. We basically assumed the heads were completely junk that's why we didn't mention them lol
It's worn out! Ford hasn't produced a 390 since the 70's! LOL! Seriously though, I think the '67, GT390 Mustangs were one of the overlooked muscle cars. There is a few running in NHRA Stock, but most are '68 428's. Love the 64 Galaxies.
@@JohnW1711stock hahaha it is for sure all around 😂 we just wanted to see if we could figure out the specifics. Not sure what will happen with this thing. I appreciate it! Thanks for watching!
@@shift_points When I was a kid my neighbor bought a brand new '64, Galaxie 500, Red on Red, with a 352 and an automatic on the column. I can remember riding in it about the second day she had it.😁
@@JohnW1711stock that is super cool! Hopefully the video got you some memories back!!
@@shift_points Another story is Bud Shelenberger won Stock at the 1965 US Nationals with a 64 Galaxie 427 automatic, in B/SA! He was sponsored by Archway Ford, on Reisterstown Rd., in Baltimore. He later formed the Norris Ford Drag Club when he worked there in the 70's. Great guy.
@JohnW1711stock that is a very cool story! I can't get enough of cool old racing stories!
Whos this Earll guy you speak of? 😆
The FE engines were bad about the oil return holes in the head plugging up with sludge from crappy oil.
@@scottsteeves I could see that! But the inside of this thing has been very clean. Not sure if that's just where we have changed the oil a couple of times with fresh good oil.
Hey I build a lot of FR just put a torque Plate some times I have seen 3 to 8 thousands egg shape on cylinders
We have that on the list to check too!
All the Ford big and small blocks I've worked with had the rods marked. Look at the back side of the bearing shells, oem Ford means probably original. Blue Felpro gaskets absolutely show previous work in that area. Piston tops are always marked if they are oversize. That motor is actually relatively clean inside.
@@craighansen7594 that's what I'm confused about. It all seems original but the gaskets. So I'm not sure what work they actually did. Unless they broke a bolt off taking the manifold off at some point.
When I rebuilt my 66 390, the rods were not stamped.
@@karldoerr9456 hummm interesting! Most of the comments so far had said they should have been!
I am in complete agreement they should have been, having built mopars, chev's and IH, they always were. So when I disassembled the 390 out of my 66 LTD, it definitely was a WTF moment!
@@karldoerr9456 I can imagine! I have had a few of those moments working on this car 😂😂
Valve seals before i watch the rest
@@jasonthompson743 yeah that was a given. That's why we didn't even check them lol
Would have done valve seals in the car first and pcv valve the bearing to copper is common have a 66 t bird cvt .and extra eng trans
@@dondesnoo1771 with it being 60 years old and had sat for 15 years we figured valve seals wouldn't have fixed it. And with these rings it wouldn't have lol
Is it a c-6 transmission , is it for sale?
Tangs on the inside Tangs on a Chevy are on the Outside
Lack of oil changes? Looks gunked up.
@@therealhip9321 it is actually surprising clean on the inside. The rings had some build up but nothing like we expected.
It was a Eliminator , Mosquito Eliminator
To say the least!! 😂
Those engines are bad about the valve seals crumbling apart and stopping up the oil return holes in the heads. It will cause all of the problems that you are having. It's a simple fix.
@@steveproctor1748 we will for sure be taking the heads apart too. We were sure the seals were bad too. We for sure got a combination of bad in this engine 😂
Hey 390 was numbered from the factory
fe fords like oil had 1 drove to work 30 mile round trip 1 quart a day not leaking went out the tail pipe so fast did not have the time to burn so not much smoke
@@user-tk4gc9jn3n this one was for sure smoking a lot 😂
If not valve stems seals , im blaming gaskets!....
My 6.1 hemihad a bad intake gasket seal and caused two of the rear cylinders to suck in , oil ....
Badly.
I'm am sure the valve stem seals are killed too! I'll do a head disassembly video too
Ford engines come from factory with stamped numbers on the rods.
@@johnnywooten7199 That's what I am seeing a lot here in the comments. That is good to know!
Number 4 had a misstamp on the cap and rod too.
I don't think you guys have a clue or what you're doing Hope somebody else assembles that motor for you. Plus the motor 60 years old
@@timferguson8654 zero percent chance that happens. Thanks for watching!
Those old 390s were junk. You would be better off putting a Windsor small block in it by far. How about a 347 or 363?
I won't be surprised if something else goes on it honestly! Let's see how it goes!
Buy some power tools
😂 got plenty of power tools.
Please please please let your grandpa know that : "blackstone mechanical" and see if he react to it, if he did and is Robert freeman that i know comment on this i need to let you know about something
Papaw died back in 2020! Sorry about that! But I would love to hear it either way!