The whole slabbing craze has almost created an artificial market. In the past, what is now considered a 9.2, 9.4, 9.6, 9.8 would've all just been looked at as a mint copy. But now we've got micro tiers with huge price discrepancies between them. Does that improve the hobby in any way? Thumbs up for your dad being a sweetheart
I agree. I've been collecting since 1985 and I was always happy with getting 9.2's and 9.4's because 9.2's or NM- was the highest tier in the Overstreet price guides (the Comic Book Bible). That all changed with CGC. Overstreet has become irrelevant.
My personal favorites are the 9.4's. People are so hung up on a the higher grades that they completely miss the opportunities to aquire a "high grade" book. 9.4 is a high grade book ... 😆
Paused the video two minutes in an even before you show your examples, you are already spot on with ROI! A book is a book is a book. And if a book is hot, the book is hot in all grades. People need to stop focusing on dollar amount and focus more on percentages, especially folks on budgets.
Great video. I have been thinking about the exact topic frequently. I really appreciate your examination of these books and values....and I completely agree. I am a 9.6 collector through and through. They are solid, great books without having to put out exorbitant amounts of money, and the roi is still there. Thank you for the conversation.
Commenting before watching your video because it's a question I feel strongly about. Sorry if you brought up any similar points. It will be interesting to watch and see what you say afterwards. It boggles my mind that people pay twice as much (sometimes much more) for a 9.8 than they would for a 9.6 when they likely couldn't even distinguish between the 2 books if they weren't encapsulated. You're paying a huge premium for a number that is subjectively given by some guy at CGC. It's gotten a little out of control in my opinion.
I agree. But its all about the CGC Census. 9.8's are much fewer so people feel they command a much bigger premium. The rarer the more expensive. My problem is that grading is so subjective and there is so little difference between a 9.6 and a 9.8. I have a few 9.8's but I never paid more than $300 for one.
I started collecting in the 80's and 90's, then stopped before coming back in 2020. It's crazy how much the hobby has changed. There's so much focus on getting slabbed books and even more so on getting slabs at a 9.8. It seems like the days of being happy with your raw collection are gone. Nowadays everyone is trying to make a quick buck and flip comics they can't even open to enjoy. Naturally I have FOMO, but I also know the hobby has priced me out of enjoying it in its current state. It's a sad thing for kids nowadays who are not learning to enjoy the fun of buying/bagging/boarding, but instead are learning to buy and sell in this comic stock market. I've chosen to stay a raw collector, and enjoying the tactile nature of the printed piece-- the smell of the ink and the paper, over the smell of dollars. I find more satisfaction in believing I have a high grade key in the raw in my personal collection. Maybe one day I'll change my mind and slab my books, but until them I'll continue being an old-school collector.
Couldn’t agree more with the comparison. 9.8s are definitely overvalued simply because of collectors wanted the best of something which I totally understand but sometimes it’s definitely too way too much.
What I wish I could find out is what percentage of people want 9.8's because its "the best" vs. what percentage of people get 9.8's because they FEEL like they need to because everything else is "worthless"
I feel that 9.8’s are a bit too expensive imo… if the average collector wants to spend a premium on his or her favorite character so be it, but for me I would get a 9.0-9.6 if I were to get a slab of my favorite because you can’t really tell the difference between the books, some say they can but I feel that most grading is subjective it’s the age old topic…just get what you love and can afford…again this is my opinion…great video 🤘🤘🤘
I think comic shops are responsible for the huge premiums. I know of many shops who have pulled all the keys from their catalog. The lack of supply is causing a secondary market which contribute to the higher costs of 9.8’s. In the end it’s only worth what someone will pay. IMO 9.4 and above is all the same.
Over the last few years I’ve had the same take on 9.8’s as you did, there’s an over focus on perfection. This worked to my advantage because I scored a number of 9.6, 9.4 and even gorgeous 8.5 comics for a fraction of the cost of 9.8’s. I do have a handful of 9.8’s and honestly they are just as attractive as their lower grade counterparts. Of course for Silver Age books I collect even 1.0’s and am happy to do so. They are cared for as equally as the 9.8’s.
You are spot-on my man. A 9.8 is not a 10.0 and the margin of error between a 9.8 and a 9.6 is so minimal. I would take a 9.6 any day if I could not get a 9.8. Not to mention not anyone can afford a 9.8.Thanks for the math!
Great video! And I definitely agree with you from a collecting point of view. But as someone waiting to get mint Bronze Age books back from CGC (been there 7 to 11 months) in order to sell, the difference between 9.8 and 9.6 in price is so great that it fills me with anxiety. Eternals 1, Star Wars 1, Nova 1, Black Panther 1, etc, in 9.8 currently sell, in total, for something like 12 or 15 grand. In 9.6? Much less than half of that. But you're entirely right about ROI. I spent 35 cents on each copy, so it's stupid to be greedy. Besides, once I get the books back, no matter the grades, nostalgia will probably weaken me and I'll just keep them!
We all know there’s a host of reasons why a modern 9.8 is desired and overpriced. A “collector” always seeks the best, esp when there are tens of thousands of graded books out there. A 9.6 is a disappointment on a modern, that’s a fact from a value, resale & collector standpoint. There’s a reason why people will buy 0.5 Gold books, because GA are actually rare in almost any complete grade. The 9.6 crowd is not your dependable nor your investment crowd. If the non9.8 folks cared about the book as they say, they would buy any grade. Why a 9.6. Seems like a waste, unless they’re cracking & resubmitting.
Great video on what is clearly a polarizing topic. I think the whole 9.8 or nothing mentality stems from the fact that a lot of “collectors” today are not your buy-and-hold forever type. Some may enjoy comics but also view them as potential investments. While that may irritate some diehard collectors, it doesn’t make it wrong as collecting is a personal thing. The simple fact is that 9.8’s are more liquid than other grades and if you’re not planning on holding forever, liquidity is a huge deal. I don’t understand why people claim that 9.8 books are overvalued when the fact is that they are valued given the basic laws of supply and demand. Perhaps they are confusing value with sentiment. If the sentiment toward 9.8’s changes, then yes that could bring the value down, but again it will simply rebalance at the equilibrium based on supply and demand. I genuinely wonder why many collectors who claim to be holding forever get so up in arms over 9.8’s or any grade above NM-.
I think the demand for CGC 9.8 mainly applies to modern books. Since there are many collectors nowadays who generally takes good care of their books, the search for a 9.8 becomes a priority. Modern comics are generally not rare in high grades but many believe that a CGC 9.8 could offset the glut of comics ranging from 8.0 to 9.6 which is very common for modern books. I noticed there is a vast difference in fmv for a CGC 9.8 compared to a CGC 9.6 approximately a 2x to 10x fmv price gap.
You should watch my my series on low grade comics as an investment. Comics 3.0 and lower generally preform even better because often people just want to get a hot book and can't afford the higher grades.
Will check it out, I def agree and have had similar takeaways. One of the first videos I ever did was talking about that idea and i compared it to real estate where you just want to "get into the rich neighborhood"
Well said..... Even myself got caught up in the whole 9.8 or nothing. I get the whole race to have that perfect comic, and or higher return in your investment. I think personally I would much rather have the comic, then not have it at all especially the older keys or just the books themselves.
Great market analysis and loved the analogy of the Olympic medals. I can totally see that. I wonder if the ROIs fall in line when it comes to newer books.
Great video! Love the channel. I really appreciated the comparison of PERCENTAGE GAIN-it will influence my purchases going forward. The “Gold Medal” analogy is so true. In the “sports card world” it is said that if you buy a “modern” card below a PSA 10 or 9, you are just buying it because you want the card…like that’s a bad thing? Get the books you want/love at a price you can afford and make it a FUN HOBBY, not an investment portfolio-✌🏼
Your views on this topic is the same as mine well played dude.. This is called spending less and reaping the same kind of ROI.. 9.8 looks good on the label but it's no differnt in the wallet to the lesser grades potential..
The ASM 300 Breakdown was off unfortunately. The 9.8 you have at 4500 and then selling for 6700 which would make it 2200/4500 = a tiny under 50% ROI while the 9.6 you have at 1450 selling at 1850 for a 400/1450 at about 28% ROI. Look at it this way you could have bought 3 graded 9.6 for around same price as a 9.8. Now those 3 copies would get you back profit of 400X 3 = 1200 compared to the 2200 profit you would get back with a 9.8 (6700-4500). So as you can see you would been much better off with the 9.8 worth 6700 now compared to 5550 for 3 copies of a 9.6. Hopefully I didn't mess that up lol. Cool breakdown nonetheless and keep up the good work!
Oops you're right on that front, I did mess up the ROI's on the ASM book, thanks for pointing that out. But it is interesting because the 9.4 returns around 40%...so I guess the point remains, I don't think its a big enough difference to warrant the risk of the higher number for 9.8. And I would guess that with a larger sample size you would see those numbers get closer over time. Luckily the other examples of Oblivion and She Hulk still track, generally the same proportional ROI's at the different grades
@@Swagglehaus Yeah you did a great job with the breakdown and I get what you were trying to say about risk vs reward. I was prolly being a lil too nit picky lol. Plus having a lot of money tied up in one comic at a 9.8 instead of numerous different comics at lower level may or may not be the best use of your time and money unless you can find it raw. Also as you said the risk is much higher with the 9.8 when the comic tanks you are going to get hit much harder. Looks easy when ASM 300 and venom booming lately lol. Keep up the great work with your videos!
Yeah my bad, I misspoke with the ASM book, thanks for pointing that out. The roi is higher on the 9.8...but across all the grades the roi range isn't all that different. And I would guess over a larger sample size the numbers would get closer. Which makes the risk of the 9.8 buy in maybe not as worth it as we would think. That said the roi's on the Obivion and SheHulk books are all proportional across every grade.
Definitely a nice gesture from your dad. No one in my family would ever buy me a comic book, let alone a graded copy. I'm a lot less worried with the grades of my silver books. I'd prefer 9.8 moderns, personally. Depends on the book.
Considering if you took all 9.8s and got them regraded, at least half would probably come back 9.6 or lower, I’d say yes, they’re grossly overvalued. Funny how people get so up in arms about the legitimacy of verified signatures which add 10-20% to the value of a book, but when it comes to grades they don’t question it, they just want the highest number possible.
@@Swagglehaus I'd argue the difference between a 9.6 and a 9.8 is no more subjective than saying a signature is real or not. Check out Jerno's latest video of the 9.8 he got back from CGC. It's objectively NOT a 9.8.
Every comic book I have ever bought was for my personal collection so I have always aimed for a maximum of 9.6 for the key comics (eg. Walking Dead #1, New Mutants 98, Dark Knight Returns #1, Ultimate Fallout 4 - 2nd print, etc.). 9.8's are not flawless and 9.6's usually have only one more flaw than a 9.8.
We have all heard the saying “ the difference between a 9.8 to 9.6 is if the graders had a bad day” so I do think 9.8 are over rated an most of the time can be hard to distinguish between a 9.6
With less in-person conventions, stimulus impact, and other factors, I don't think we will see returns similar to Jan 2021 - Sept 2021 for some time again, if ever... But of course, no one knows!
I think 9.8s are overrated. I honestly think the difference between a 9.8, 9.9, and 10.0 is how much sleep the grader had the night before.... Collectors can flex all they want with 9.8s but 9.8s aren't Gem Mint condition.
It makes sense to have fine gradations in conditions, and that the value should increase with ONE score, but it is absolutely silly that a 9.8 would be typically 2-3 times more expensive! For that matter, it is silly to value a comic trapped in a slab over one that is protected but accessible! There are many possible hidden flaws, so a 9.4 may look just as good in a slab as a 9.8. Also, if grading was a science (it should be if they are "professionals") then the grade would have an uncertainty. CGC's 68% uncertainty level would probably be larger than the difference between 9.8 and 9.6.
What is your opinion on the investment end? Purchasing a 9.6 at a lower cost or shelling out the extra money for a 9.8, is the 9.8 worth the extra money or as a return about the same?
This is another clever and well-considered Swags view on an aspect of the market. Well argued. There have been two other Swagglehaus videos that were so good I downloaded them to keep offline, and this one is the third. For the record, the last one was 'Are Qualified and Restored books undervalued?' Since I don't flip comics and keep the ones I buy, I love 9.8s but totally understand these points.
I LOVE THIS VIDEO. Literally have been thinking this for the last year. 9.8 only people seem like its only a good deal to buy stocks if you can buy them all of one kind....no one does that. Invest small earn small but you are still earning which is the name if the game. ROI...its all about percentage of return. Thanks Swagglehaus
I think that CGC is helping the cause these days. Seems more and more it's difficult to secure that 9.8. Where in the past they were handed out like M and M's. I do think the they were over grading in many circumstances, I bet that this will have an impact in the graded books. You will see the gap between 9.6 and 9.8 close slightly. Also a 9.6 is really a 9.8 IMHO, visually they are almost identical. Personally I love a mid grade silver age book with some history and patina on it. Inherently they are meant to be read right? With modern, I usually aim for a nice 9.0-9.4, gets me into a book and money left over for another!
Yooooiooo i never get graded books!! I try to get good copy’s but mid grade is fine for me!! I got ASM 300 prob a 6.0 for a few hun and a 9.8 was creeping the 1000s I am good with what I got jus having the book
i do think there is too much. While i dont have a problem with people wanting "the Best", thinking everything else is junk is stupid. My main problem is not really with the grading tho, its the slab idea itself. Take a 200 dollar comic NM, u slab and get a 9.8 and now its 2k But if you take that comic out of that slab and sell it, no one is going to give u 2k for it, its 200 comic again thats why I dislike slabs, too much money is based upon nothing more than a plastic case and a complete strangers opinion of your book Thats why I like your channel as well, not so much 9.8-slab slab as it is just about good ole comic book collecting:)
If I’m grading to sell 9.8’s are where the money is, but I’d never buy one myself. Anything I grade for the PC I’m less bothered if it’s a 9.8 or not. They still look great if they just miss and get 9.6, 9.4 etc
Excellent video and insight Swaggle, personally, if its a book I am investing in to sell or create equity, I try to shoot for 9.8, however, if its a book I plan to keep forever, 9.2+ is perfectly fine by me to save money. Awesome Hawkeye btw, that cover is always stunning!
I echo much of what everyone here is mentioning with the following caveat: Pre 1985 books, I’m ecstatic to get them as 7.0 to 9.0 (depending on the issue and Age). Post 1985 books, I may look for a higher book BUT if something really nice comes my way for a VERY good price point, mama Hernandez didn’t raise no fool. But mind you, I’m saying this strictly as a collector and not a “flipper” 🐬- faster than lighting…no one can see that he’s smarter than me…And they call him 🐬🐬.
Yes, 9.8s are ridiculously overvalued. I feel mid grade copies are very undervalued in this crazy market. To me a 9.0 is just as desirable as a 9.8, and I'm okay with books in the 6.0-8.0 range if graded properly. I just use this to my advantage and save a lot of money by avoiding ultra-high grades and slabs in general. I use that extra money to buy more books instead of lining the pockets of some third party grading company or blowing a fortune on slabbed copies in the "9s". I don't invest or speculate, I buy comics I want to collect and enjoy owning. The number on the slab is meaningless to me except to put the book in a grade range when I can't inspect it in person, and they get cracked out after I buy them. Comic collecting has morphed into greed induced madness in the last 20 years.
While I do believe there should be something of a premium for 9.8 books it's kind of mind boggling to me that some 9.8 are 3-4x of the 9.6. it's just 🍌🍌🍌
I struggle with the need for a 9.8 when it comes to CGC books myself. One of my LCS’s has a CGC graded book of one of the books I’ve been hunting… the first appearance of Cloak and Dagger. However I have yet to pull the trigger because it’s a 9.0. If it wasn’t graded, I would’ve bought it the first time I saw it. I’m already a completist, but a 9.8 snob too?!?!? Ugh 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I love mid grade books.they have history/nostalgia.The younger generation doesnt appreciate that aspect of collecting.They never got their books off of a spinner rack or newstand!
I started grading some of my books about a year ago. I've gotten a few back at 9.4 and I was angry when I first got them back, but now they have sat in my collection for awhile now and when I look at them, I'm blown away by how nice they are. To me the difference between 9.8's and 9.4's is so minimal and a 9.6 might as well be a 9.8 itself. This was a great video as far as content goes.
The whole slabbing craze has almost created an artificial market. In the past, what is now considered a 9.2, 9.4, 9.6, 9.8 would've all just been looked at as a mint copy. But now we've got micro tiers with huge price discrepancies between them. Does that improve the hobby in any way?
Thumbs up for your dad being a sweetheart
I agree. I've been collecting since 1985 and I was always happy with getting 9.2's and 9.4's because 9.2's or NM- was the highest tier in the Overstreet price guides (the Comic Book Bible). That all changed with CGC. Overstreet has become irrelevant.
My personal favorites are the 9.4's. People are so hung up on a the higher grades that they completely miss the opportunities to aquire a "high grade" book. 9.4 is a high grade book ... 😆
Yeah, I get 9.2 or 9.4’s and that’s fine with me. I got a 9.0 first appearance of Apocalypse. I’m fine with it
9.6 is my jam. If I can find an exceptional raw that’s a 9.8 candidate then great. But I’ll never buy a 9.8 3x as much as a 9.6
"Same blocking." Yep, definitely work in Hollywood. Great topic and grats on your first 9.8!!
hehe :P
Paused the video two minutes in an even before you show your examples, you are already spot on with ROI! A book is a book is a book. And if a book is hot, the book is hot in all grades. People need to stop focusing on dollar amount and focus more on percentages, especially folks on budgets.
Yes they do i don't even try for 9.8 anymore. 9.6 for 1/3rd the price easy for a .2 difference crazy.
Totally agree. I get why almost everyone wants the 9.8 but the difference in price point from a 9.6, 9.4 etc. is crazy.
Great video. I have been thinking about the exact topic frequently. I really appreciate your examination of these books and values....and I completely agree. I am a 9.6 collector through and through. They are solid, great books without having to put out exorbitant amounts of money, and the roi is still there. Thank you for the conversation.
Commenting before watching your video because it's a question I feel strongly about. Sorry if you brought up any similar points. It will be interesting to watch and see what you say afterwards.
It boggles my mind that people pay twice as much (sometimes much more) for a 9.8 than they would for a 9.6 when they likely couldn't even distinguish between the 2 books if they weren't encapsulated. You're paying a huge premium for a number that is subjectively given by some guy at CGC. It's gotten a little out of control in my opinion.
Sometimes as much as a 4x increase between 9.6 and 9.8. Insanity
I agree. But its all about the CGC Census. 9.8's are much fewer so people feel they command a much bigger premium. The rarer the more expensive. My problem is that grading is so subjective and there is so little difference between a 9.6 and a 9.8. I have a few 9.8's but I never paid more than $300 for one.
I think 9.8 is a good way to add a little bit of scarcity to the books that have massive print runs.
I started collecting in the 80's and 90's, then stopped before coming back in 2020. It's crazy how much the hobby has changed. There's so much focus on getting slabbed books and even more so on getting slabs at a 9.8. It seems like the days of being happy with your raw collection are gone. Nowadays everyone is trying to make a quick buck and flip comics they can't even open to enjoy. Naturally I have FOMO, but I also know the hobby has priced me out of enjoying it in its current state. It's a sad thing for kids nowadays who are not learning to enjoy the fun of buying/bagging/boarding, but instead are learning to buy and sell in this comic stock market. I've chosen to stay a raw collector, and enjoying the tactile nature of the printed piece-- the smell of the ink and the paper, over the smell of dollars. I find more satisfaction in believing I have a high grade key in the raw in my personal collection. Maybe one day I'll change my mind and slab my books, but until them I'll continue being an old-school collector.
Got out of hospital this morning and thought I’d check to see what I’d missed.
This is a great way to help people Speculate with risk management!
OMG! ya gotta tell your dad you have a you tube channel! I know he would proud you are showing off the book he got you!
Great video! FOMO is huge in comic collecting.
Couldn’t agree more with the comparison. 9.8s are definitely overvalued simply because of collectors wanted the best of something which I totally understand but sometimes it’s definitely too way too much.
What I wish I could find out is what percentage of people want 9.8's because its "the best" vs. what percentage of people get 9.8's because they FEEL like they need to because everything else is "worthless"
I feel that 9.8’s are a bit too expensive imo… if the average collector wants to spend a premium on his or her favorite character so be it, but for me I would get a 9.0-9.6 if I were to get a slab of my favorite because you can’t really tell the difference between the books, some say they can but I feel that most grading is subjective it’s the age old topic…just get what you love and can afford…again this is my opinion…great video 🤘🤘🤘
I agree. I'm just happy I have a copy.
I think comic shops are responsible for the huge premiums. I know of many shops who have pulled all the keys from their catalog. The lack of supply is causing a secondary market which contribute to the higher costs of 9.8’s. In the end it’s only worth what someone will pay. IMO 9.4 and above is all the same.
Over the last few years I’ve had the same take on 9.8’s as you did, there’s an over focus on perfection. This worked to my advantage because I scored a number of 9.6, 9.4 and even gorgeous 8.5 comics for a fraction of the cost of 9.8’s. I do have a handful of 9.8’s and honestly they are just as attractive as their lower grade counterparts. Of course for Silver Age books I collect even 1.0’s and am happy to do so. They are cared for as equally as the 9.8’s.
You are spot-on my man. A 9.8 is not a 10.0 and the margin of error between a 9.8 and a 9.6 is so minimal. I would take a 9.6 any day if I could not get a 9.8. Not to mention not anyone can afford a 9.8.Thanks for the math!
Yes definitely! Finally!
I think when you consider the best way to spread your “bets” around , it’s clear that buying 9.4 or 9.6 enables you to make more bets and diversify.
You need to keep that 9.8
Your dad sounds like a cool bloke..happy days
Great video! And I definitely agree with you from a collecting point of view. But as someone waiting to get mint Bronze Age books back from CGC (been there 7 to 11 months) in order to sell, the difference between 9.8 and 9.6 in price is so great that it fills me with anxiety. Eternals 1, Star Wars 1, Nova 1, Black Panther 1, etc, in 9.8 currently sell, in total, for something like 12 or 15 grand. In 9.6? Much less than half of that. But you're entirely right about ROI. I spent 35 cents on each copy, so it's stupid to be greedy. Besides, once I get the books back, no matter the grades, nostalgia will probably weaken me and I'll just keep them!
We all know there’s a host of reasons why a modern 9.8 is desired and overpriced. A “collector” always seeks the best, esp when there are tens of thousands of graded books out there. A 9.6 is a disappointment on a modern, that’s a fact from a value, resale & collector standpoint. There’s a reason why people will buy 0.5 Gold books, because GA are actually rare in almost any complete grade. The 9.6 crowd is not your dependable nor your investment crowd. If the non9.8 folks cared about the book as they say, they would buy any grade. Why a 9.6. Seems like a waste, unless they’re cracking & resubmitting.
Love me 9.4s.
A rising tide lifts all boats. Same reason I have no problem with qualified or restored books that display well.
That ASM 297 is invaluable because your Dad picked it up for you. That's worth much more than any other 9.8.
Great video on what is clearly a polarizing topic. I think the whole 9.8 or nothing mentality stems from the fact that a lot of “collectors” today are not your buy-and-hold forever type. Some may enjoy comics but also view them as potential investments. While that may irritate some diehard collectors, it doesn’t make it wrong as collecting is a personal thing. The simple fact is that 9.8’s are more liquid than other grades and if you’re not planning on holding forever, liquidity is a huge deal. I don’t understand why people claim that 9.8 books are overvalued when the fact is that they are valued given the basic laws of supply and demand. Perhaps they are confusing value with sentiment. If the sentiment toward 9.8’s changes, then yes that could bring the value down, but again it will simply rebalance at the equilibrium based on supply and demand. I genuinely wonder why many collectors who claim to be holding forever get so up in arms over 9.8’s or any grade above NM-.
I think the demand for CGC 9.8 mainly applies to modern books. Since there are many collectors nowadays who generally takes good care of their books, the search for a 9.8 becomes a priority. Modern comics are generally not rare in high grades but many believe that a CGC 9.8 could offset the glut of comics ranging from 8.0 to 9.6 which is very common for modern books. I noticed there is a vast difference in fmv for a CGC 9.8 compared to a CGC 9.6 approximately a 2x to 10x fmv price gap.
I have 9.4s and I can’t even sell em. The 9.8s of the same comic sells quick.
Yeah that makes sense though, the community for sure values 9.8's more...I'm just trying to offer up the perspective of if we should.
Nice job Dad !!
I don’t care about the grade long as the cover and back looks fine I’m good
You should watch my my series on low grade comics as an investment. Comics 3.0 and lower generally preform even better because often people just want to get a hot book and can't afford the higher grades.
Will check it out, I def agree and have had similar takeaways. One of the first videos I ever did was talking about that idea and i compared it to real estate where you just want to "get into the rich neighborhood"
Well said.....
Even myself got caught up in the whole 9.8 or nothing. I get the whole race to have that perfect comic, and or higher return in your investment. I think personally I would much rather have the comic, then not have it at all especially the older keys or just the books themselves.
Great market analysis and loved the analogy of the Olympic medals. I can totally see that. I wonder if the ROIs fall in line when it comes to newer books.
Great video! Love the channel. I really appreciated the comparison of PERCENTAGE GAIN-it will influence my purchases going forward. The “Gold Medal” analogy is so true. In the “sports card world” it is said that if you buy a “modern” card below a PSA 10 or 9, you are just buying it because you want the card…like that’s a bad thing? Get the books you want/love at a price you can afford and make it a FUN HOBBY, not an investment portfolio-✌🏼
Your views on this topic is the same as mine well played dude.. This is called spending less and reaping the same kind of ROI.. 9.8 looks good on the label but it's no differnt in the wallet to the lesser grades potential..
The ASM 300 Breakdown was off unfortunately. The 9.8 you have at 4500 and then selling for 6700 which would make it 2200/4500 = a tiny under 50% ROI while the 9.6 you have at 1450 selling at 1850 for a 400/1450 at about 28% ROI. Look at it this way you could have bought 3 graded 9.6 for around same price as a 9.8. Now those 3 copies would get you back profit of 400X 3 = 1200 compared to the 2200 profit you would get back with a 9.8 (6700-4500). So as you can see you would been much better off with the 9.8 worth 6700 now compared to 5550 for 3 copies of a 9.6. Hopefully I didn't mess that up lol. Cool breakdown nonetheless and keep up the good work!
Oops you're right on that front, I did mess up the ROI's on the ASM book, thanks for pointing that out. But it is interesting because the 9.4 returns around 40%...so I guess the point remains, I don't think its a big enough difference to warrant the risk of the higher number for 9.8. And I would guess that with a larger sample size you would see those numbers get closer over time. Luckily the other examples of Oblivion and She Hulk still track, generally the same proportional ROI's at the different grades
@@Swagglehaus Yeah you did a great job with the breakdown and I get what you were trying to say about risk vs reward. I was prolly being a lil too nit picky lol. Plus having a lot of money tied up in one comic at a 9.8 instead of numerous different comics at lower level may or may not be the best use of your time and money unless you can find it raw. Also as you said the risk is much higher with the 9.8 when the comic tanks you are going to get hit much harder. Looks easy when ASM 300 and venom booming lately lol. Keep up the great work with your videos!
If you spent 4500 on a spidey 300 and sold it for 6700 that is almost a 50% return on your money. On this book the return is incredible on a 9.8.
Yeah my bad, I misspoke with the ASM book, thanks for pointing that out. The roi is higher on the 9.8...but across all the grades the roi range isn't all that different. And I would guess over a larger sample size the numbers would get closer. Which makes the risk of the 9.8 buy in maybe not as worth it as we would think. That said the roi's on the Obivion and SheHulk books are all proportional across every grade.
@@Swagglehaus yeah spidey 300 is a different animal! It's become an insane book at 9.8.
Definitely a nice gesture from your dad. No one in my family would ever buy me a comic book, let alone a graded copy.
I'm a lot less worried with the grades of my silver books. I'd prefer 9.8 moderns, personally. Depends on the book.
Considering if you took all 9.8s and got them regraded, at least half would probably come back 9.6 or lower, I’d say yes, they’re grossly overvalued.
Funny how people get so up in arms about the legitimacy of verified signatures which add 10-20% to the value of a book, but when it comes to grades they don’t question it, they just want the highest number possible.
Yeah grading is subjective as well, so that plays a huge role
@@Swagglehaus I'd argue the difference between a 9.6 and a 9.8 is no more subjective than saying a signature is real or not. Check out Jerno's latest video of the 9.8 he got back from CGC. It's objectively NOT a 9.8.
Every comic book I have ever bought was for my personal collection so I have always aimed for a maximum of 9.6 for the key comics (eg. Walking Dead #1, New Mutants 98, Dark Knight Returns #1, Ultimate Fallout 4 - 2nd print, etc.). 9.8's are not flawless and 9.6's usually have only one more flaw than a 9.8.
We have all heard the saying “ the difference between a 9.8 to 9.6 is if the graders had a bad day” so I do think 9.8 are over rated an most of the time can be hard to distinguish between a 9.6
With less in-person conventions, stimulus impact, and other factors, I don't think we will see returns similar to Jan 2021 - Sept 2021 for some time again, if ever... But of course, no one knows!
i always crack open my 9.6s and send them back to cgc to hopefully get 9.8s. it has worked on multiple occasions. great content and video!!
I think 9.8s are overrated. I honestly think the difference between a 9.8, 9.9, and 10.0 is how much sleep the grader had the night before....
Collectors can flex all they want with 9.8s but 9.8s aren't Gem Mint condition.
It makes sense to have fine gradations in conditions, and that the value should increase with ONE score, but it is absolutely silly that a 9.8 would be typically 2-3 times more expensive! For that matter, it is silly to value a comic trapped in a slab over one that is protected but accessible! There are many possible hidden flaws, so a 9.4 may look just as good in a slab as a 9.8. Also, if grading was a science (it should be if they are "professionals") then the grade would have an uncertainty. CGC's 68% uncertainty level would probably be larger than the difference between 9.8 and 9.6.
Nice analysis! But what if a comic were to go down in value? Would it work the same way?
What is your opinion on the investment end? Purchasing a 9.6 at a lower cost or shelling out the extra money for a 9.8, is the 9.8 worth the extra money or as a return about the same?
Maybe I commented before I watched the video, sorry.
It really depends on the book for ROI.
Great video! All goes back to the main tenet of investing: buy low, sell high. Good to see the same ROI on lower grades. Takes the pressure off.
This is another clever and well-considered Swags view on an aspect of the market. Well argued. There have been two other Swagglehaus videos that were so good I downloaded them to keep offline, and this one is the third.
For the record, the last one was 'Are Qualified and Restored books undervalued?'
Since I don't flip comics and keep the ones I buy, I love 9.8s but totally understand these points.
Can you do more videos on Veve digital comics these are exploding in price.
I LOVE THIS VIDEO. Literally have been thinking this for the last year. 9.8 only people seem like its only a good deal to buy stocks if you can buy them all of one kind....no one does that. Invest small earn small but you are still earning which is the name if the game. ROI...its all about percentage of return. Thanks Swagglehaus
If the demand and numbers on roi are similar across the top grades, doesn’t that negate the idea that ppl “want” a 9.8 more?
I think that CGC is helping the cause these days. Seems more and more it's difficult to secure that 9.8. Where in the past they were handed out like M and M's. I do think the they were over grading in many circumstances, I bet that this will have an impact in the graded books. You will see the gap between 9.6 and 9.8 close slightly. Also a 9.6 is really a 9.8 IMHO, visually they are almost identical. Personally I love a mid grade silver age book with some history and patina on it. Inherently they are meant to be read right? With modern, I usually aim for a nice 9.0-9.4, gets me into a book and money left over for another!
Yooooiooo i never get graded books!! I try to get good copy’s but mid grade is fine for me!! I got ASM 300 prob a 6.0 for a few hun and a 9.8 was creeping the 1000s I am good with what I got jus having the book
i do think there is too much. While i dont have a problem with people wanting "the Best", thinking everything else is junk is stupid.
My main problem is not really with the grading tho, its the slab idea itself.
Take a 200 dollar comic NM, u slab and get a 9.8 and now its 2k
But if you take that comic out of that slab and sell it, no one is going to give u 2k for it, its 200 comic again
thats why I dislike slabs, too much money is based upon nothing more than a plastic case and a complete strangers opinion of your book
Thats why I like your channel as well, not so much 9.8-slab slab as it is just about good ole comic book collecting:)
If I’m grading to sell 9.8’s are where the money is, but I’d never buy one myself. Anything I grade for the PC I’m less bothered if it’s a 9.8 or not. They still look great if they just miss and get 9.6, 9.4 etc
9.8, 9.6, etc.
The more you pay, the more you make.
The less you pay, the less you make.
Excellent video and insight Swaggle, personally, if its a book I am investing in to sell or create equity, I try to shoot for 9.8, however, if its a book I plan to keep forever, 9.2+ is perfectly fine by me to save money. Awesome Hawkeye btw, that cover is always stunning!
I'll take 9.4-9.6s all day
ROI for most of my books has been much more reliable for 9.6 grades.
I echo much of what everyone here is mentioning with the following caveat:
Pre 1985 books, I’m ecstatic to get them as 7.0 to 9.0 (depending on the issue and Age).
Post 1985 books, I may look for a higher book BUT if something really nice comes my way for a VERY good price point, mama Hernandez didn’t raise no fool.
But mind you, I’m saying this strictly as a collector and not a “flipper” 🐬- faster than lighting…no one can see that he’s smarter than me…And they call him 🐬🐬.
Yes, 9.8s are ridiculously overvalued. I feel mid grade copies are very undervalued in this crazy market. To me a 9.0 is just as desirable as a 9.8, and I'm okay with books in the 6.0-8.0 range if graded properly. I just use this to my advantage and save a lot of money by avoiding ultra-high grades and slabs in general. I use that extra money to buy more books instead of lining the pockets of some third party grading company or blowing a fortune on slabbed copies in the "9s". I don't invest or speculate, I buy comics I want to collect and enjoy owning. The number on the slab is meaningless to me except to put the book in a grade range when I can't inspect it in person, and they get cracked out after I buy them.
Comic collecting has morphed into greed induced madness in the last 20 years.
I don’t buy 9.8s but to each their own. I like nice looking books but not paying that much of a premium.
Yes- especially when grading is so inconsistent. 9.6 is totally the same in most cases.
pick up Oblivion Song in a 9.8 now and thank me later.
While I do believe there should be something of a premium for 9.8 books it's kind of mind boggling to me that some 9.8 are 3-4x of the 9.6. it's just 🍌🍌🍌
If you’re crazy enough to Spencer on oblivion dong, a non 9.8 makes less than zero sense. Even a 9.8 won’t be worth diddly in a few months.
Speculators & their added stupidity, greed, lies & lack of decency killed the hobby. It is no longer a hobby.
I struggle with the need for a 9.8 when it comes to CGC books myself. One of my LCS’s has a CGC graded book of one of the books I’ve been hunting… the first appearance of Cloak and Dagger. However I have yet to pull the trigger because it’s a 9.0. If it wasn’t graded, I would’ve bought it the first time I saw it. I’m already a completist, but a 9.8 snob too?!?!? Ugh 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I love mid grade books.they have history/nostalgia.The younger generation doesnt appreciate that aspect of collecting.They never got their books off of a spinner rack or newstand!
👽🍻
Yes yes the community does overvalue 9.8s. Some 9.6s are the same as the 9.8s its dumb. I wouldnt pay extra hundreds for the difference.
I started grading some of my books about a year ago. I've gotten a few back at 9.4 and I was angry when I first got them back, but now they have sat in my collection for awhile now and when I look at them, I'm blown away by how nice they are. To me the difference between 9.8's and 9.4's is so minimal and a 9.6 might as well be a 9.8 itself. This was a great video as far as content goes.