A little late to the party. My thought was just the opposite. I have an older 7 ch Onkyo. 100 wpc 2 ch. driven. I'm running 5 ch with the front L& R bi-amped. Another comment below stated that he doubles his watts with the bi-amp mode. I don't believe that's the case. My belief is a 100 wpc receiver will only put out 100 wpc ( 2 chs driven ) no matter what you do with bi-amping. So for 2 ch, 100 watts is all I'm going to get. Bi-amped or not. The bi-amp mode only comes into effect when in home theater mode. Now I"ve been wrong once so far this year, so it's possible I could be wrong again, Anyones thoughts.
Surprised you didn't also explain bi-amp'ing with an external amp using the AVR's pre-outs. The benefits are much different and the improved performance is greater realized.
Since that’s a more specific breakdown, that will be in an upcoming tutorial. The majority of my audience seems to be those fairly new to home theater, so external amps aren’t on their radar yet. But the video will be coming soon!
@@ealanosbornethat's fair, looking forward to that tutorial. However, you recently reviewing the Emotiva AV Processor... your base is maybe a little more sophisticated than you give us credit for. 👍🏽
I don't know what your plans are, but I would highly recommend you do some research on biamping before you start playing with external amps. When you are using a multi channel receiver to biamp, you're doing what's called a vertical biamp. On modern audio equipment, vertical is the only way to biamp that makes sense. It avoids all kinds of problems that you will run into if you go with a traditional horizontal biamp. There's a fair amount of information you'll need to go over to learn about this method, and its just not possible to cover it in a post like this. If you're thinking about using one amp for the highs, and one for the lows, or mono amps in some configuration, stop. You can waste a lot of money if you don't know exactly what you're doing. For a vertical biamp, this is what you need. There's only 2 amplifier choices. You can use 2 stereo amps that are identical. They have to be exactly the same. Or, you can use a 4 channel amp where all 4 channels are identical. In a music setup, 2 stereo amps is the norm, but a 4 channel amp is OK. Obviously, your receiver will be using the 4 channel setup. You can't use separate mono amps to vertical biamp. To give a quick visualization of what you're doing, I'll explain how the amps are connected when you have 2 stereo amps. In a traditional horizontal biamp, one stereo amp is used to drive the highs and the other amp is used to drive the bottom half of the speaker. In a vertical biamp, the right channel goes to both inputs on one of the stereo amps. One channel of the stereo amp goes to the highs, and the other channel goes to the lows. So, instead of one amp driving the highs on both speakers, and the other on the lows for both speakers, you now have 1 amp driving the right speaker, and the other amp driving the left speaker. The main thing to take away from all this, is vertical biamping is plug and play. As long as you follow the rules, everything will work, and you'll get good sound. Not so with traditional, horizontal biamping. Even if you are using 2 identical stereo amps, the bass amp will be working a lot harder than the amp for the highs. How hard an amp works, changes the way it sounds. Also, power output is a function of frequency. The lower the note, the lower the resistance the amp sees. 4 and 8 ohm ratings on your speakers are just averages. The actual resistance constantly varies. So, if you have an amp that puts out 100 watts into 4 ohms, and 50 watts into 8 ohms, those 2 identical amps are not identical anymore. If your bass frequencies average about 4 ohms and the other amp 8 ohms, you literally have one 5o watt amp and one 100 watt amp. And, as you can imagine, you now have a volume problem. Not only will the amps sound different, they'll be putting out different amounts of power. In otder to set the levels right between the 2 amps, you'll need to use an external active xover, and that's something you really don't want to get involved with. This may look like a long post, but it's not. I'm just scratching the surface here, and there are plenty of details that I just can't get into. If you want to biamp with your AV receiver, just do what he tells you to do in the video and you'll be fine. However, if you are going to be using a different configuration, you definitely want to do more research before you spend a lot of money. Its too easy to make a mistake.
I am running some legacy bipolar paradigm towers as my front left and right in my home theater (5.1). They benefit significantly from bi-amping. Yes, it probably isn't as noticeable in a movie soundtrack. A subwoofer is probably a better investment if that is your primary concern. But, if you want loudness and clarity for music reproduction, you want your towers bi amped. It's going to let the speaker run on double the wattage before getting into Amp distortion.
I totally agree! The only thing I have to add to this is that I can hear crazy details and life like performance as if the artist is in my home playing live using my Focal speakers 😎👌and Focal dose not use Bi-amping. But then again Focals are a different level, and I'm sure that it's because of the crossover they hand-built. But to add to this I'm sure the speaker companies that use the method of Bi-amping tuned the speaker to sound its best in that mode. Thank you for your honesty on whether or not someone should invest in Bi-amping👏👏👏👏
I looked into bi-amping and even bi-wiring years ago and ultimately decided against it for a couple reasons. 1. I use Crown XLS amplifiers (4) matched up to my speakers peak power handling so that maximum power and dynamic range isn’t an issue. 2. I do use 4 conductor wire but tied together to make 2 conductors because I found (and I do this fairly often) when I want to swap out and play around with different front speakers, not all speakers have dual binding posts so it’s a pain. TOOL FAN!!!👍👍👍
@@crashedcorvette you would have to use one crown 2 channel amplifier per speaker using left and right channel, one for the Lows, and one for the highs, possibly using the internal crossover of the crown 2 channel amplifier if the crossovers in the speakers are bypassed by doing this, while still using the high Pass crossover in your AVR to send the lowest frequencies to your sub. If you’re already using an external amplifier, then you really have ample power to run almost any speaker unless they’re ridiculously hard to drive and you’re in a very large space. My two cents. Hope this helps.
I'm doing horizontal bi-amping with an integrated solid state amp and active low pass crossover to the woofers (below 80hz), and tube monoblocks on the mids/tweeters. Best of both worlds. Bass got tighter, and I have a bunch of options for adjusting low frequencies. Mids and treble got clearer. Absolutely worth doing in my case, and was really quite affordable, since I already had the monoblocks, and the speakers were conducive to it. Every system and situation is different. How much difference it makes really depends on each setup, and how it's executed.
I am running bi amp to my bookshelf speakers with a Denon 3808 and an external two channel amp. Denon amp is driving high end. External amp is driving low end. My two channel amp has gain control. I set gain to the same level as Denon amp by sound meter through a speaker. Most speakers including my 6 ohm rated bookshelf speakers have their impendence curve with lowest point around 150Hz to 200Hz. Some even 8 ohm rated speakers can dip to 4 ohm between 100Hz to 200Hz. While most AVR amp is not able to provide enough current to drive that range. So speaker driven by less capable amps will be 1 to 3db down in 100Hz to 200Hz. That range of sound affects speaker's tonality. Most external amps are able to drive 4 ohm or lower speakers. Therefore, speaker will sound different driven by less capable vs so called high current amps.
I have a $1100 pioneer elite htr.(paid 350 new!). Rated at 120wpc. It seems to control the 7 inch woofer on my b&w 602 s3's better when bi-amped. Mid bass seems slow, muddy using just two channels even with my fancy taralabs bi-wire cable. It plays clearer at low volumes too. It's a class d reciever, they say that's better for control. Maybe I need 2x better control to tame these old monster bookshelves or buy a real amplifier. Working on it.
Great video! I just upgraded my front stage for my 5.2.2 system to B&W 705 S3 bookshelfs and HTM71 S3 center on my Denon x3800H receiver. I am planning to Bi-Wire the center and considering Bi Amping the fronts, since I have those terminals unused... I mainly watch movies, but also listen to music. Do you think it's worth Bi Amping the fronts in my setup or is simply Bi-wiring the better bet? My thought is that those unused terminals are not using their amps so it's wasted power, but perhaps it's all a pool of power for all terminals and doesn't matter...
@@ealanosborne Its for the family room that is just 5.1. The receiver is the strza3000es which sounds phenomenal, and my record player is hooked up to that receiver as well. I think this will be a prime candidate as the Amp can do it and we listen to a lot of records.
I have a 7015 and Polk Towers that are Bi-Amp. Makes a lot of difference when listening to music. Ealan, I am curious about your configurating in the Marantz in the 2 Channel section
Hi Ealan, A little late to the party here. After seeing your video, I tried bi amping my stereo setup- Monitor audio bronze 100 paired with a Yamaha Rxv6a . While they’re plenty good when connected normally, I could definitely see a marked and noticeable improvements in sound separation and bass response. I will be running this setup for a few days and switch to see if it’s actual or just a placebo effect. Don’t have banana plugs so the setup does take a lot of time!
@@ealanosborne ha ha. I agree so. Very few of my friends are into audio, home theater etc., so can’t really discuss these things and get and idea. The only way for me to know what I like is through experimentation. Thanks for your reply though.
Thanks for your quick response. I had that solution too. But according the Marantz support desk I should use the 7.1 (bi-amp) + zone 2 or the 9.1 (bi-amp). I used both options and also 5.1 bi-amp full zone. Bi-amp 5.1 full zone is a real improvement for stereo music. I used the Marantz support options 7.1 Bi-amp + zone 2 and 9.1. Also a big improvement of music quality but when use my Apple TV 4K I have sometimes not the full sound (only tweeters), for example with RUclips. So therefore my option is 5.1.bi-amp full zone. The big question is, could this damage my receiver?
It shouldn’t, since it’s clearly meant to handle it. If you were experimenting with things outside of what the manual says, then you might damage things. But otherwise, no. 👍
I have a 3.1 set up on my denon x3300w and when I biamp the towers I notice a lot more detail. Love it. I’ll be installing my surrounds soon so I bet I’ll lose some of the quality tho
Thanks for those tip! If I have a 7.1 or 7.2 receiver, but use it for a 5.1 speaker system, can I use the 2 "surround Back" ports for bi-amping (assuming there'd be enough power from the receiver, and that its delivery stays constant whatever the number of channels that are used)?
I don’t currently have bi-amping set up, personally. The video in question was made a couple years ago at this point. Going with 7.1 + Zone 2 or 5.1 full bi-amp is up to you, really. I’m not really into using more zones, so I would probably go with 5.1 full bi-amp. 🤷♂️
No. Bi-amping is two amplifier channels powering two terminals on a speaker. The two channels can be on the same AVR like in the video, or an outboard amplifier. Bi-wiring is plugging two pos and two neg wires into a single amp channel, and then connecting to the two different binding posts on the speaker (with the connector removed). Same power coming through, just through 2 different sets of wires, rather than just one then jumping to the second with the jumper connector.
Since bi-amping doesn't affect home theater, I'll probably leave my fronts as-is with a single cable. This also means I'm utilizing the built-in crossover instead of my receiver's. My Yamaha RX-A6A receiver also has 8V outputs, and I have a Monolith 200W/ch amp already, so I'm not sure I need to worry about this. Am I right in thinking this way?
Currently running a circa 2006 Denon 2807 in 5.1. Front mains are bi-amped using the built in crossover and rear amp assign etc. I'm happy with the stereo sound as well as the 5.1 sound (Klipsch Reference II speakers, Velodyne subs etc...). Here's the question. If I upgrade to say a Denon 3700H or 4700H, will my mains, if bi-amped running stereo at least match the bi-amped pure direct stereo bi amped of my 2807? That is the first part of the question. Then, in the Denon 3700, you have lots of pre-amp options. For example, if I assign the mains for external, go pre amp out to the denon 2807, will the bi-amp function work the same way, then just leave it in pure direct mode all the time. I know the obvious next step is hook it up and see what happens, but that means I'd have to buy the 3700. Thanks!
In theory and on paper, you should be able to use your old AVR as an external amp, given that it has a 7.1 channel external input section. But there might be complications with bi-amping. Using an old AVR through its Pure Direct mode can definitely power a 2 channel system no problem. But I would still have to personally experiment with such a setup to know for sure if it can be used for bi-amping as well. What’s the main reason for upgrading? Is it having 8K support and Atmos, etc?
Hi Ealan, great video and thanks for that! I have a question for you... I would like to ask if bi-amping reduces the "load" of the AVR when trying to drive 4 ohm speakers. To be more specific, my AVR is Marantz Cinema 40 and for FL and FR I am waiting for Sonus Faber Sonetto III tower speakers (4 ohm) to be delivered. I have read on various forums that I should not change the AVR setting from 8 ohms to 4 ohms but be careful with the temperature of the AVR and high volumes... So, I was wondering if bi-amping would reduce the "bad effect" of the 4 ohm speakers to the AVR? Also, in general, do you recommend keeping the AVR setting from 8 ohms or change it to 4 ohms (as recommended in the user's manual)? Thank you :-)
It might help it a little bit to distribute the load across more internal amps, but it would significantly help if at some point you off-loaded the need to power your Sonus Fabers all together with an external amp. Are the Sonus Fabers the only 4 ohm speakers that will be in your system? If so, I’d stick with 8 ohm if the rest of your speakers perform best at 8 ohms.
I have an old Denon 4806 7.1 that's pretty powerful at 140 w per channel. I like what you said about don't make them like they used to and newer AV's being less powerful as I'd come to the same conclusion about this beast. I have 4 KEFs in my surround that are bi-amp able so I'm going to try this. Music is a big deal to me so what you said about the improvement in clean signal is kind of a big deal, thx! My AV goes from -70 to +12 and at 0 its incredibly loud so I'll bet it has enough power to make a difference.
Lemme know how it goes! I wonder if a completely bi-amped surround sound system would be that much better? 🤷♂️😄 Now that would be a killer experiment!
They’re jumper cables that connect the high and low frequencies for when you want to connect the speaker normally (plugging into just the bottom red and black terminals). Then when you want to bi-amp them, you remove the jumper cables so the high and low frequencies are powered independently. 🤘
Do not do this unless you are proficient in electronics .What i have done is modified an expensive Yamaha S801 INTEGRATED AMPLIFIER IN THE FOLLOWING WAY. First it is designed to operate as a stand alone unit. The mods include adding a switched power outlet and finding the "preamp" out then paralleling them L+R to a pair of RCA plugs mounted on the back of the unit .Then find the 12v source that operates the power on relay. I obtained one from a junked receiver and used the 12v source to operate it. After hook it up to an external 110v outlet again mounted on the back. Now how does it sound? The sound overall is slightly louder and clearer . Almost forgot ,the extra amp is a 45 yr old Hitachi HMA7500 POWER AMP which puts out almost the same power output. I at first tried the Yamaha ta the top end and the Hitachi at the bottom. Later I switched the two at the speakers and could hear that the old Hitachi has a better defined hi end.
I have a Marantz PM10 driving Q Acoustics Concept 500’s which except bi-amping. There’s an option to get a second PM10 to setup bi-amping. Any thoughts?
Wow. If money isn’t an issue (which it probably isn’t, given your incredible Hi-Fi setup) and you LOVE to listen to music A LOT, then yes, you might want to get another PM-10 for even higher fidelity playback. It’s still not going to be a HUGE difference, but different enough to some. Otherwise, I’m sure one PM-10 by itself is good enough for most applications. 👍
In my opinion, that would be a mistake. If you're going to spend double the money, just so you can biamp, it would be a waste. You'll get better sound, but it won't be worth it. For that kind of money, you can get real high end gear made in the US, Canada, UK, etc.... Remember, when you are adding another Marantz, you're not getting a better amp you're getting another amp. It will sound better, but it will pale in comparison to what you can get if you buy 1 really good amp for 2x the price. If you already have an amp that is close to state of the art, then maybe get another one. But your Marantz, while very good, isn't even close to that level.
I just ordered a pair of Klipsch RP-600 M iis to go with my AVR-X4700H. These are my first Klipsch speakers and the first ones with dual binding posts (I should get them by Wednesday) I think I'll try them both ways and see for myself if I can tell a difference. Ny bedroom/HT is too small for towers and I'm replacing the L/R satellites - that in itself should be mind-blowing!.
@@ealanosborne I just got them this morning. I have a (dumb?) question, though. Since I've never owned a pair of speakers with more than one set of terminals. For "normal" use, do I use the outside, inside, left or right terminals? I'm a little disappointed that FedEx left a (normally) $750 pair of speakers on my front porch and as far as I could tell never even played 'ding-dong-ditch'
@@DavidEVogel Since I don't have any height channels I thought I'd go ahead and bi-amp. I think it makes the bass a little tighter, but with my hearing the way it is it's a little hard to tell...they sound good, though. The woofers are about 2x as large as the ones in the satellites I replaced. Listening to music (jazz/classical mostIy) really don't even need my sub. Movies sound good too, although I did notice how crappy the old center channel is now. Darn it...I gotta get another new speaker. There's one on sale that's a "Reference" instead of an "Reference Premier" that would fit under my TV without having to buy a mount or a new AV stand, but I've heard cautions about mixing qualities even in the same brand...I should stick with an RP. thoughts???
@@garyausten5939 I have a pair of Polk speakers and bi-amplify them. Consider that woofers eat about half of your power. 100 watts/channel and 50 goes to the woofer. If you have enough amplifiers why not use 2 to amplify the woofers?
If you happen to already have the equipment to make it happen (speakers with 2 sets of binding posts), then yeah, check it out! But would I go out and buy speakers that can be bi-amped? Probably not. 🤷♂️
Tthanks for your explanation. I have the SR8015 that I only use in a 5.1 setup. I want to connect the front speakers bi-amp setup. In the Manuel of the SR8015 is only a 5.1 bi-amp option, 5.1ch Full Bi-Amp listed. As indicated, I only want to connect the front speaker in bi-amp. Which receiver connections should I use for lower terminals of my front speakers? Regards Wim
@@ealanosborne Ealan, hereby, as promised, the Marantz respons on the Bi-amp settings (SR8015) in a front Bi-amp 5.1 setting. If you only want to connect the front speakers Bi-amp 5.1 mode, you must choose the 7.1 (BI-amp) + Zone2. The 5.1 Full Bi-amp is not an option because the S8015 then thinks that all speakers are in Bi-amp. See diagram in Manuel SR8015. Regards Wim
Thinking of bi amping my fronts. But I will need to use an external amp as i a want to keep my 5.1.4 setup. I have a Marantz C40. So does that mean I need to really have a quad amp or two stereo amps and use the preouts. I assume you can't use a mix of receiver amps and external amps for bi-amping. Might get a 5 channel amp, one for the centre as well.
Correct, you wouldn’t be able to use both internal and external amps combined to pull off bi-amping. In order to bi-amp with external speakers, you’d need an RCA Y-splitter, which I also have a video on. 😉
@ealanosborne not sure why you would need a splitter. Can I not designate the appropriate channels say channels 1,2,3,4 to preout to a quad amp. Then say channels 1,2 be biamp 1 and 3,4 biamp 2. Then use channels 5,6,7,8,9,10,11 for the other speaker and they will use the internal amps? Giving me 5.1.4 with two biamped fronts.
@@nickmaddalena985 No, sorry. The software just isn’t that intuitive to make it that customizable. If you want to bi-amp the front speakers, you need to connect a Y-splitter into each Front L/R preout and connect those to 4 channels on an external amp.
@ealanosborne sorry for the delay. So what you are saying I'd that I use only two channels and Y split the preout signal into 4 channels. In an amp. So basically 2 channels will be a duplicate of the same signal, which internally get fed into the two sets of binding posts on the main speakers? Will the preout signal be degraded going through the y splitter? Would not the resistance be higher?
@@nickmaddalena985 Yes, you are understanding what I said correctly. 👍 The pre out signal does get split, yes, but any degradation at that gain stage is very minimal, and the external amp will do most of the work anyway. When I tested it for this video, it seemed to sound just fine! 🎉
Any speakers with biwire and biamp inputs would benefit tremendously more with a preamp and power amps than with a typical av receiver, especially when listening to music only.
Bi-amping while superior, yields little benefit when using the speakers internal Xover. Unless your speakers are specifically designed for this setup like my Tannoy System12DMT studio monitors, all you are doing is using a different amp running through the same Xover. True bi-amping requires an electronic Xover. Not even remotely close to the description in this video.
@keithmoriyama5421 This is from the Black Man O.G. and music loving audiophile, (My full title!🤣).Hmm....I agree but only partially, and here's why: I believe Electronic crossovers are mostly beneficial to speakers that don't have any. I performed a experiment (by accident! 🤣) a few years back with my Magnepan 1.6's. I was going to purchase another set of speakers but sent them back due to sonic dissatisfaction and shipping dings! As I reinstalled the Maggie's, I mistakenly put the Conrad-Johnson on the bass terminals and the Adcom 555 mk2 on the midrange and treble. The sound wasn't good at all and the Maggie's split frequency crossovers( the 1.7's, their successors only have single terminals) revealed the difference in extreme! The Maggie's along with the other speakers I've owned that could be bi wired and biampable benefited greatly. More bass definition, less strain, improved midrange and treble transparency deeper and wider sound staging was attained with tubes and transistors. This to me is better than monoblocks. Using a electronic crossover in the system with speakers that have crossovers already in them, I think would create more electronic haze distortion and musical discontinuity. Then again, I also believe there are some who were successful in doing so and I don't knock electronic crossovers at all. I recommend to all fellow music lovers and audiophiles to do whatever it takes( within budget!🤣) to extract maximum performance and long term musical satisfaction from their system! Keep the cd's, vinyl, reels and etc, spinning and enjoy the music. 🎶🎵👍😁
@@williamcampbell3868 Who goes through the passive cross over if you are bi-amping-- that makes no sense at all. Just bypass the cross over. I also own Magnepan 3.7's. Maggies are weird speaker with a crazy response and impedance curve so it is not a good example of electronic bi-amping. As for hearing all of these audiophile nirvana qualities-- More bass definition, less strain, improved midrange and treble transparency deeper and wider sound staging. I have never heard them in my life-- at least to the degree the audiophile community claims, and I have 30 years of paid professional work as a sound engineer, not to mention 4 high end systems. I have highly trained hearing but, I've never heard magic by changing a cable or a slight wiring trick. p.s. If you have ever heard an electronically bi-amped system, the qualities are not what you describe.
@@keithmoriyama5421 I makes plenty of sense, especially when a lot of high end speaker manufacturers recommend it and the advantages of doing so if one wishes! Yes!, there are after market PASSIVE crossovers with high end parts equal to those found in some electronic crossovers. These are also being bi-amped with monoblocks by audiophiles. They are not wrong and neither are the designers and manufacturers! No, I'm no sound engineer, but I used to DJ, and I have more than 45 years of sound system exposure and concert experiences. Many sound systems I heard were great and many were absolutely terrible. I never heard the magic you mentioned either. My hearing is still very acute and discerning and I can hear the differences I mentioned in audio components and recordings
@@keithmoriyama5421 It makes plenty of sense, especially when many high end speaker manufacturers recommend it and the advantages of doing so if one wishes. There are speakers with internal crossover components equal to those in electronic crossovers and therefore don't need one unless the speakers don't have internal crossovers. I'm no engineer but I used to DJ and have 45 years of sound system exposure and concert experiences. I've heard a lot of your colleagues systems. Many were great and many were absolutely terrible. My hearing is discerning and no, I haven't heard the magic you mentioned either. However I do hear the qualities I mentioned. They can be subtle and often not.
hello, I got Bowers & Wilkins 702 S3 speakers which says MAX 300 W total power coming from amp. I also got a Rotel 5 channel Amp with 210 W each channel. Can I use bi-amp (get 2 channels 210 W each from the amp) and feed 210 W on top and 210 W on the bottom on those B&W speaker? thanks. (BTW I got the same Maratz too).
Yes, that should still be fine, unless you plan on playing the music very loud for hours on end. 😄 It’s actually good to have a lot of headroom with a more powerful amp, as opposed to an amp with not enough power that’s trying too hard and introducing distortion into the signal path.
Thanks for your video! I am looking to buy speakers that state they are IPR ready. Can I run these as regular speakers? The speakers are not that expensive...they are Polk Audio SC80 IPR. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Hi! Yes, you can use them as regular speakers since they have standard +/- speaker terminals, but are IP ready, if you decide to do that at some point instead. 👍
@@ealanosborne Thanks for the quick reply! Now looking for an Amp/ Reveiver that will be sufficient for a six speaker plus one subwoofer. If you don't mind...can I ask what I should be looking for without breaking the bank?
@@georgematos9380 Hmmm…well if you want 6 speakers and a sub, a 7 channel AVR would work best. Something like the Onkyo TX-NR7100 or Denon X1800H or X2800H, depending on your budget. Those are all fairly future proof, supporting HDMI 2.1, 8K and 4K video, next gen gaming features if you play video games a lot, and sufficient power for an entry level speaker system. 👍
From what I have researched, bi-wiring is the same as having a thicker (lower gauge) cable. So bi-wiring with two 14AGW would be aprox. the same as having a single 8AWG. But someone correct me if I'm wrong.
@@Donly1pt removing the usual crappy plates and using more copper, as you describe, both make a difference. However, the two pairs of wires carry separate frequencies, in line with the filter circuits in the crossovers, so there is less contamination of the delicate tweeter feed by the thundering great bass currents. No doubt bi-amping is better but bi-wiring is a still a worthwhile upgrade.
I applied bi-amp to my Yamaha NS-555 tower speakers - which are budget speakers from Yamaha as you know - and then got a big difference, it really made sense. The AVR is also 10 years old Yamaha Aventage RX-A1010 btw. I do not have any experience with bookshelf speakers hence cannot comment on that but for tower speakers, if you have a receiver capable of bi-amping then for sure you should take the opportunity and try it.. Now I am thinking of upgrading receiver to a new one with Dolby Atmos /Dts-X etc newer features and considering with bi-amping I must invest on a device with 11 amplified channels for a 5.1.4 setup which means that it will be most likely a flagship model.
I passive bi amp'ed my Infinity RS IIIa's a few years ago and they never sounded better. Too much power and ohms going to a single binding post. IMHO the top end stole from the woofers and vice versa. Now they are powered separately they both shine like never before not to mention I have not blown up an amp since I did them.
Hey I have a question I haven't been able to find an answer too... I just got some Klipsch 8000f towers and they are capable of bi-amping. Is it possible to use a 4 channel amp like the emotiva bassX and Bi amp from that? Thanks love your videos!!
I actually did test this out...kind of. But since I only had a 2 channel amp on hand, I didn't want to include my results in the video, just in case they were false due to not having a 4 channel amp in my possession currently. But I think it's a software thing. At least with my Marantz SR7015. It seemed as if when setting the mode to "5.1ch (bi-amp) + Zone 2, it only activates the front left and right pre outs, because I never got a signal coming out of the "Height 1+2" pre outs. BUT...I think you still could technically use a BasX A4 by using RCA splitters, so 1 RCA goes into the right front receiver pre out, which then splits into 2 in the back of the A4. Same with the Left Front pre out. OR...you could take an A2 and bi-wire instead. You connect the right and left front pre outs to the A2 with RCA patch cables, then have 2 sets of speaker wire coming out of the A2 right front speaker terminal and connecting to the HF and LF terminals of the right front speaker. Then same with the Left Front speaker wire. Totally sorry if this isn't exactly making sense. I'm still not 100% sure that I'm correct in this assessment, so don't quote me on this. Bottom line is, it's complicated. 😄
You are bi-wiring, but there are many ways to bi-amp. My wife has a set of Klipsh with Atmos speakers built in. And many high end speakers these days have a built-in subwoofer amplifier. But there are still other reasons and ways to bi-amp. I have a high end Onkyo 9 channel theater amp (130 watts RMS per channel @ 8Ω, 4Ω stable) powering a set of vintage Pioneer HPM 1100 speakers (125 watts RMS, 6.3Ω, 3.5cu-ft of internal space) The Onkyo, used alone, works well powering them, but it sounded weak when also driving the 7 other speakers. With bi-wiring, I will still have the same problem. The power supply will still be over worked and drive the 15 inch subwoofers poorly. In this case, if you want to keep the big speakers, the only solution is to use a second amp. I had a Pioneer Elite 4 channel amp @ 135 watts per channel, that I started using for the sole purpose of driving these large speakers. And it did a great job. But damage and wear dictated that it was time to make another change. So, the Pioneer HPM 1100’s 45-year-old, 15-inch, 4Ω speakers got replaced with Skar DDX15-D2s. This is a set of large 1000-watt RMS, dual coil subwoofers, that are made for a ported box from 3.5 to 4 cu-ft. To drive these, I had to bi-amp the HPM 1100s. I let the Onkyo’s front speaker terminals handle the top speakers, and a Crown XLS 2502 pro-amp handles the bottom 15-inch subwoofers. The Crown pro-amp is driven by the Onkyo’s front speaker pre-amp RCA outs. Which goes to an Art Cleanbox Pro’s RCA ins, through to its XLR outs, to the Crown pro-amp’s XLR ins. The Art Cleanbox Pro is a converter that makes home sound equipment’s connections compatible with pro-equipment. The Crown has RCA ins, but using the Cleanbox, can double this amp’s output level. In a 22 X 26-foot living room with a cathedral ceiling, there are now massive amounts of vibrations in that room to where you can very noticeably feel the bass, even at lower levels. The Crown pro amp drives each subwoofer at a 1200-watt potential. That’s 2400 watts RMS driving two 15 inch competition grade subwoofers, mounted in large ported cabinets. With this configuration, the resulting sound and feel is awesome. You can feel the power. Note: If you bi-amp a speaker, you have to compensate for the load that you removed from the crossover network. In my case, I ran the wires to 8-inch Skar IX-8 D2 subwoofers @ 4Ω, that I built to fit perfectly on top of the HPM 1100s (separated with isolation pads). This makes the top end of the HPM 1100s full range. The Crown I’m using is a great class D amp. It sounds precise and is easy to adjust, it’s efficient and very powerful, and I’ve never heard its fan or any other unwanted noises. The result of this project is well worth every penny and minute that I spent on it. All of the options you have read about above, kicks the crap out of any Bi-wire system that I have ever seen.
I have a 7.2 channel receiver by Sony (Dh790) And the klipsch Dolby Atmos 5.1.4 I have everything hooked up except the the two front height speakers built into the front left and right speakers. My two rear speakers also have height speakers built in. I'm thinking about t taping all 4 of the height speakers
How loud your surrounds are depends on how close they are to your main listening position. Are they near your head? Then not too loud. Are they 6 feet behind you and to the sides a bit? Then louder. Audyssey does a pretty good job initially when determining the loudness a speaker should be depending on how far away it is. Then it's just a matter of adjusting the dB to your liking after that. 👍
Tell an audio enthusiast that this one simple thing "could improve your music listening experience". You can bet they will at the very least try it. I don't have a lifetime supply of cable sitting around for nothing. 😆
I tried with my KEF 900 and Yamaha RX671.. guess the mid range receiver wasn't able to prove the value to me. I went with front receiver channels to power the speaker tweeters and extra bi amped surround channel to power the bass drivers - I hardly noticed any change to be honest. Could be my ears or maybe the receiver being average - I'd be interested if anyone saw improvements with similar setup. I'm back to single cables as it wasn't worth the hassle to use the 2 pairs of wires for a single pair speakers.
Bi amping with a receiver makes a huge differences. Let’s say the amp is 100wpc, with bi amping, the woofer and tweeters each get 100wpc. Without bi amping, the tweeters and woofer have to share and thus get 50wpc each. Bi amping doubles the output. I’ve always heard huge differences and I’ve bi amped 3 different pair of speakers using different AVs.
Everyone got on the bandwagon..it’s a business in the end…extra channels..extra cable..snake oil..yes headroom…but..nah Much like these expensive DACS..snake oil..limitations…it’s never going to happen..around and around
Absolutely no benefits in doing so. I have never noticed any difference bi-wiring the speakers, nor Bi-amping them, same quality if you keep the jumpers. I tried this on my B&W 800 D3 and the Sonus Faber Aida, and at the end it was a waste of money on very expensive cables. That is my opinion. And in any case this only would work if is no cross overs and each channel is 100% separate from the other.
I totaly agree, I have bi-amped my Sonus Faber and its hard to notice a big difference in movies but it makes a huge difference in 2-channel.
A little late to the party. My thought was just the opposite. I have an older 7 ch Onkyo. 100 wpc 2 ch. driven. I'm running 5 ch with the front L& R bi-amped. Another comment below stated that he doubles his watts with the bi-amp mode. I don't believe that's the case. My belief is a 100 wpc receiver will only put out 100 wpc ( 2 chs driven ) no matter what you do with bi-amping. So for 2 ch, 100 watts is all I'm going to get. Bi-amped or not. The bi-amp mode only comes into effect when in home theater mode. Now I"ve been wrong once so far this year, so it's possible I could be wrong again, Anyones thoughts.
Surprised you didn't also explain bi-amp'ing with an external amp using the AVR's pre-outs. The benefits are much different and the improved performance is greater realized.
Since that’s a more specific breakdown, that will be in an upcoming tutorial. The majority of my audience seems to be those fairly new to home theater, so external amps aren’t on their radar yet. But the video will be coming soon!
@@ealanosbornethat's fair, looking forward to that tutorial. However, you recently reviewing the Emotiva AV Processor... your base is maybe a little more sophisticated than you give us credit for. 👍🏽
Right , the correct way to Double your power . Far superior . Turn 100 WPC to 200
I don't know what your plans are, but I would highly recommend you do some research on biamping before you start playing with external amps. When you are using a multi channel receiver to biamp, you're doing what's called a vertical biamp. On modern audio equipment, vertical is the only way to biamp that makes sense. It avoids all kinds of problems that you will run into if you go with a traditional horizontal biamp. There's a fair amount of information you'll need to go over to learn about this method, and its just not possible to cover it in a post like this. If you're thinking about using one amp for the highs, and one for the lows, or mono amps in some configuration, stop. You can waste a lot of money if you don't know exactly what you're doing.
For a vertical biamp, this is what you need. There's only 2 amplifier choices. You can use 2 stereo amps that are identical. They have to be exactly the same. Or, you can use a 4 channel amp where all 4 channels are identical. In a music setup, 2 stereo amps is the norm, but a 4 channel amp is OK. Obviously, your receiver will be using the 4 channel setup. You can't use separate mono amps to vertical biamp. To give a quick visualization of what you're doing, I'll explain how the amps are connected when you have 2 stereo amps. In a traditional horizontal biamp, one stereo amp is used to drive the highs and the other amp is used to drive the bottom half of the speaker. In a vertical biamp, the right channel goes to both inputs on one of the stereo amps. One channel of the stereo amp goes to the highs, and the other channel goes to the lows. So, instead of one amp driving the highs on both speakers, and the other on the lows for both speakers, you now have 1 amp driving the right speaker, and the other amp driving the left speaker.
The main thing to take away from all this, is vertical biamping is plug and play. As long as you follow the rules, everything will work, and you'll get good sound. Not so with traditional, horizontal biamping. Even if you are using 2 identical stereo amps, the bass amp will be working a lot harder than the amp for the highs. How hard an amp works, changes the way it sounds. Also, power output is a function of frequency. The lower the note, the lower the resistance the amp sees. 4 and 8 ohm ratings on your speakers are just averages. The actual resistance constantly varies. So, if you have an amp that puts out 100 watts into 4 ohms, and 50 watts into 8 ohms, those 2 identical amps are not identical anymore. If your bass frequencies average about 4 ohms and the other amp 8 ohms, you literally have one 5o watt amp and one 100 watt amp. And, as you can imagine, you now have a volume problem. Not only will the amps sound different, they'll be putting out different amounts of power. In otder to set the levels right between the 2 amps, you'll need to use an external active xover, and that's something you really don't want to get involved with.
This may look like a long post, but it's not. I'm just scratching the surface here, and there are plenty of details that I just can't get into. If you want to biamp with your AV receiver, just do what he tells you to do in the video and you'll be fine. However, if you are going to be using a different configuration, you definitely want to do more research before you spend a lot of money. Its too easy to make a mistake.
I am running some legacy bipolar paradigm towers as my front left and right in my home theater (5.1). They benefit significantly from bi-amping. Yes, it probably isn't as noticeable in a movie soundtrack. A subwoofer is probably a better investment if that is your primary concern. But, if you want loudness and clarity for music reproduction, you want your towers bi amped. It's going to let the speaker run on double the wattage before getting into Amp distortion.
I totally agree!
The only thing I have to add to this is that I can hear crazy details and life like performance as if the artist is in my home playing live using my Focal speakers 😎👌and Focal dose not use Bi-amping.
But then again Focals are a different level, and I'm sure that it's because of the crossover they hand-built. But to add to this I'm sure the speaker companies that use the method of Bi-amping tuned the speaker to sound its best in that mode.
Thank you for your honesty on whether or not someone should invest in Bi-amping👏👏👏👏
I looked into bi-amping and even bi-wiring years ago and ultimately decided against it for a couple reasons.
1. I use Crown XLS amplifiers (4) matched up to my speakers peak power handling so that maximum power and dynamic range isn’t an issue.
2. I do use 4 conductor wire but tied together to make 2 conductors because I found (and I do this fairly often) when I want to swap out and play around with different front speakers, not all speakers have dual binding posts so it’s a pain.
TOOL FAN!!!👍👍👍
This was the exact question I had. I have Crown amplifier so I was wondering how you biamp with an amplifier
@@crashedcorvette you would have to use one crown 2 channel amplifier per speaker using left and right channel, one for the Lows, and one for the highs, possibly using the internal crossover of the crown 2 channel amplifier if the crossovers in the speakers are bypassed by doing this, while still using the high Pass crossover in your AVR to send the lowest frequencies to your sub. If you’re already using an external amplifier, then you really have ample power to run almost any speaker unless they’re ridiculously hard to drive and you’re in a very large space. My two cents. Hope this helps.
Ealan, i love how you present your content
. your delivery is fresh, fun, and very informative
. thank you very much for your efforts
Thank you for your kind words, Ernest! 😁🤘
Great video. I think it's important to mention bi amping by bypassing the crossover adjusting eq accordingly
I'm doing horizontal bi-amping with an integrated solid state amp and active low pass crossover to the woofers (below 80hz), and tube monoblocks on the mids/tweeters. Best of both worlds. Bass got tighter, and I have a bunch of options for adjusting low frequencies. Mids and treble got clearer. Absolutely worth doing in my case, and was really quite affordable, since I already had the monoblocks, and the speakers were conducive to it.
Every system and situation is different. How much difference it makes really depends on each setup, and how it's executed.
Hell yes! Excellent setup, my friend! 🤘
I am running bi amp to my bookshelf speakers with a Denon 3808 and an external two channel amp. Denon amp is driving high end. External amp is driving low end. My two channel amp has gain control. I set gain to the same level as Denon amp by sound meter through a speaker.
Most speakers including my 6 ohm rated bookshelf speakers have their impendence curve with lowest point around 150Hz to 200Hz. Some even 8 ohm rated speakers can dip to 4 ohm between 100Hz to 200Hz. While most AVR amp is not able to provide enough current to drive that range. So speaker driven by less capable amps will be 1 to 3db down in 100Hz to 200Hz. That range of sound affects speaker's tonality. Most external amps are able to drive 4 ohm or lower speakers. Therefore, speaker will sound different driven by less capable vs so called high current amps.
I have a $1100 pioneer elite htr.(paid 350 new!). Rated at 120wpc. It seems to control the 7 inch woofer on my b&w 602 s3's better when bi-amped. Mid bass seems slow, muddy using just two channels even with my fancy taralabs bi-wire cable. It plays clearer at low volumes too. It's a class d reciever, they say that's better for control. Maybe I need 2x better control to tame these old monster bookshelves or buy a real amplifier. Working on it.
Perfect timing! I was just wondering if bi-amping my Klipsch 600m’s would be worth it. I’ll give it a shot
Was it?
Great video! I just upgraded my front stage for my 5.2.2 system to B&W 705 S3 bookshelfs and HTM71 S3 center on my Denon x3800H receiver. I am planning to Bi-Wire the center and considering Bi Amping the fronts, since I have those terminals unused... I mainly watch movies, but also listen to music. Do you think it's worth Bi Amping the fronts in my setup or is simply Bi-wiring the better bet? My thought is that those unused terminals are not using their amps so it's wasted power, but perhaps it's all a pool of power for all terminals and doesn't matter...
Yeah, if you listen to music quite a bit and have those unused terminals, might as well experiment! 🎉
A year latter I’m re-watching as I’m about to decide if I should or should not due this. Love your content man!
It’s mainly for music listening, so if that’s your goal, DO IT! 😁
@@ealanosborne Its for the family room that is just 5.1. The receiver is the strza3000es which sounds phenomenal, and my record player is hooked up to that receiver as well. I think this will be a prime candidate as the Amp can do it and we listen to a lot of records.
Dude! Been waiting for this awesome video! I've been all over RUclips and this is "bi-far" the best video about bi-amping. THANK YOU
Ha!! “Bi-far…” 😄🤘
I have a 7015 and Polk Towers that are Bi-Amp. Makes a lot of difference when listening to music. Ealan, I am curious about your configurating in the Marantz in the 2 Channel section
Hi Ealan, A little late to the party here. After seeing your video, I tried bi amping my stereo setup- Monitor audio bronze 100 paired with a Yamaha Rxv6a . While they’re plenty good when connected normally, I could definitely see a marked and noticeable improvements in sound separation and bass response. I will be running this setup for a few days and switch to see if it’s actual or just a placebo effect. Don’t have banana plugs so the setup does take a lot of time!
That’s great news! It’s all about experimentation, so you’re already ahead of most! 😁🎉
@@ealanosborne ha ha. I agree so. Very few of my friends are into audio, home theater etc., so can’t really discuss these things and get and idea. The only way for me to know what I like is through experimentation. Thanks for your reply though.
Thanks for your quick response. I had that solution too. But according the Marantz support desk I should use the 7.1 (bi-amp) + zone 2 or the 9.1 (bi-amp). I used both options and also 5.1 bi-amp full zone. Bi-amp 5.1 full zone is a real improvement for stereo music. I used the Marantz support options 7.1 Bi-amp + zone 2 and 9.1. Also a big improvement of music quality but when use my Apple TV 4K I have sometimes not the full sound (only tweeters), for example with RUclips.
So therefore my option is 5.1.bi-amp full zone. The big question is, could this damage my receiver?
It shouldn’t, since it’s clearly meant to handle it. If you were experimenting with things outside of what the manual says, then you might damage things. But otherwise, no. 👍
marantz 6011 + opticon 8 in bi-amp for music is great setup (in pure direct), i enjoy since few years.
I have a 3.1 set up on my denon x3300w and when I biamp the towers I notice a lot more detail. Love it. I’ll be installing my surrounds soon so I bet I’ll lose some of the quality tho
Well, at least you can still bi-amp if it’ll be a 5.1 setup. Thanks for your input! 😊
I have the same receiver with paradigm monitor 9's up front and notice a big difference in detail when setup to bi-amp. Music sounds great..
Thanks for those tip! If I have a 7.1 or 7.2 receiver, but use it for a 5.1 speaker system, can I use the 2 "surround Back" ports for bi-amping (assuming there'd be enough power from the receiver, and that its delivery stays constant whatever the number of channels that are used)?
It depends on the AVR. Which one do you have?
So what is you’re setup then, use the 7.1 bi-amp + zone 2 or the 5.1 full bi-amp?
I don’t currently have bi-amping set up, personally. The video in question was made a couple years ago at this point. Going with 7.1 + Zone 2 or 5.1 full bi-amp is up to you, really. I’m not really into using more zones, so I would probably go with 5.1 full bi-amp. 🤷♂️
@@ealanosborne thanks, I will contact Marantz support and let you know what there advice is. Keep up you’re good vids, I like them👍
Buy those big ol' JBL 590 towers on sale and bi-amp them! Would love to see a video on that!
Yes cleaner sound! Well with my Yamaha RX-V3800 with Monitor Audio Silver stand alone speakers, I've heard the difference.
Bi amping requires an additional amp. If you connecting your speakers to an additional terminal on the same amp that's biwired
No. Bi-amping is two amplifier channels powering two terminals on a speaker. The two channels can be on the same AVR like in the video, or an outboard amplifier. Bi-wiring is plugging two pos and two neg wires into a single amp channel, and then connecting to the two different binding posts on the speaker (with the connector removed). Same power coming through, just through 2 different sets of wires, rather than just one then jumping to the second with the jumper connector.
That was THE bi-amping lesson I needed, big time. I was gonna bi-amp some bookshelves but now it does not make much sense.
Awesome! Glad I could help! 😎🤘
Since bi-amping doesn't affect home theater, I'll probably leave my fronts as-is with a single cable. This also means I'm utilizing the built-in crossover instead of my receiver's. My Yamaha RX-A6A receiver also has 8V outputs, and I have a Monolith 200W/ch amp already, so I'm not sure I need to worry about this. Am I right in thinking this way?
Sounds solid to me! 😁🤘
Currently running a circa 2006 Denon 2807 in 5.1. Front mains are bi-amped using the built in crossover and rear amp assign etc. I'm happy with the stereo sound as well as the 5.1 sound (Klipsch Reference II speakers, Velodyne subs etc...). Here's the question. If I upgrade to say a Denon 3700H or 4700H, will my mains, if bi-amped running stereo at least match the bi-amped pure direct stereo bi amped of my 2807? That is the first part of the question. Then, in the Denon 3700, you have lots of pre-amp options. For example, if I assign the mains for external, go pre amp out to the denon 2807, will the bi-amp function work the same way, then just leave it in pure direct mode all the time. I know the obvious next step is hook it up and see what happens, but that means I'd have to buy the 3700. Thanks!
In theory and on paper, you should be able to use your old AVR as an external amp, given that it has a 7.1 channel external input section.
But there might be complications with bi-amping. Using an old AVR through its Pure Direct mode can definitely power a 2 channel system no problem. But I would still have to personally experiment with such a setup to know for sure if it can be used for bi-amping as well.
What’s the main reason for upgrading? Is it having 8K support and Atmos, etc?
Hi Ealan, great video and thanks for that!
I have a question for you... I would like to ask if bi-amping reduces the "load" of the AVR when trying to drive 4 ohm speakers.
To be more specific, my AVR is Marantz Cinema 40 and for FL and FR I am waiting for Sonus Faber Sonetto III tower speakers (4 ohm) to be delivered. I have read on various forums that I should not change the AVR setting from 8 ohms to 4 ohms but be careful with the temperature of the AVR and high volumes...
So, I was wondering if bi-amping would reduce the "bad effect" of the 4 ohm speakers to the AVR?
Also, in general, do you recommend keeping the AVR setting from 8 ohms or change it to 4 ohms (as recommended in the user's manual)?
Thank you :-)
It might help it a little bit to distribute the load across more internal amps, but it would significantly help if at some point you off-loaded the need to power your Sonus Fabers all together with an external amp.
Are the Sonus Fabers the only 4 ohm speakers that will be in your system? If so, I’d stick with 8 ohm if the rest of your speakers perform best at 8 ohms.
I have an old Denon 4806 7.1 that's pretty powerful at 140 w per channel. I like what you said about don't make them like they used to and newer AV's being less powerful as I'd come to the same conclusion about this beast. I have 4 KEFs in my surround that are bi-amp able so I'm going to try this. Music is a big deal to me so what you said about the improvement in clean signal is kind of a big deal, thx! My AV goes from -70 to +12 and at 0 its incredibly loud so I'll bet it has enough power to make a difference.
Lemme know how it goes! I wonder if a completely bi-amped surround sound system would be that much better? 🤷♂️😄 Now that would be a killer experiment!
What's the purpose of the black/red cables attached to the binding post? Aren't the speakers already bi-wired?
They’re jumper cables that connect the high and low frequencies for when you want to connect the speaker normally (plugging into just the bottom red and black terminals).
Then when you want to bi-amp them, you remove the jumper cables so the high and low frequencies are powered independently. 🤘
Do not do this unless you are proficient in electronics .What i have done is modified an expensive Yamaha S801 INTEGRATED AMPLIFIER IN THE FOLLOWING WAY. First it is designed to operate as a stand alone unit. The mods include adding a switched power outlet and finding the "preamp" out then paralleling them L+R to a pair of RCA plugs mounted on the back of the unit .Then find the 12v source that operates the power on relay. I obtained one from a junked receiver and used the 12v source to operate it. After hook it up to an external 110v outlet again mounted on the back. Now how does it sound? The sound overall is slightly louder and clearer . Almost forgot ,the extra amp is a 45 yr old Hitachi HMA7500 POWER AMP which puts out almost the same power output. I at first tried the Yamaha ta the top end and the Hitachi at the bottom. Later I switched the two at the speakers and could hear that the old Hitachi has a better defined hi end.
Cool. 👍
I'm here from you're other video.
I have a Marantz PM10 driving Q Acoustics Concept 500’s which except bi-amping.
There’s an option to get a second PM10 to setup bi-amping.
Any thoughts?
Wow. If money isn’t an issue (which it probably isn’t, given your incredible Hi-Fi setup) and you LOVE to listen to music A LOT, then yes, you might want to get another PM-10 for even higher fidelity playback. It’s still not going to be a HUGE difference, but different enough to some. Otherwise, I’m sure one PM-10 by itself is good enough for most applications. 👍
In my opinion, that would be a mistake. If you're going to spend double the money, just so you can biamp, it would be a waste. You'll get better sound, but it won't be worth it. For that kind of money, you can get real high end gear made in the US, Canada, UK, etc.... Remember, when you are adding another Marantz, you're not getting a better amp you're getting another amp. It will sound better, but it will pale in comparison to what you can get if you buy 1 really good amp for 2x the price. If you already have an amp that is close to state of the art, then maybe get another one. But your Marantz, while very good, isn't even close to that level.
I just ordered a pair of Klipsch RP-600 M iis to go with my AVR-X4700H. These are my first Klipsch speakers and the first ones with dual binding posts (I should get them by Wednesday) I think I'll try them both ways and see for myself if I can tell a difference. Ny bedroom/HT is too small for towers and I'm replacing the L/R satellites - that in itself should be mind-blowing!.
Nice!!! Interested to know if you hear a difference regular vs bi-amped! 🤘
@@ealanosborne I just got them this morning. I have a (dumb?) question, though. Since I've never owned a pair of speakers with more than one set of terminals. For "normal" use, do I use the outside, inside, left or right terminals? I'm a little disappointed that FedEx left a (normally) $750 pair of speakers on my front porch and as far as I could tell never even played 'ding-dong-ditch'
@@garyausten5939 Doesn't matter. The jumpers are in place.
@@DavidEVogel Since I don't have any height channels I thought I'd go ahead and bi-amp. I think it makes the bass a little tighter, but with my hearing the way it is it's a little hard to tell...they sound good, though. The woofers are about 2x as large as the ones in the satellites I replaced. Listening to music (jazz/classical mostIy) really don't even need my sub. Movies sound good too, although I did notice how crappy the old center channel is now. Darn it...I gotta get another new speaker. There's one on sale that's a "Reference" instead of an "Reference Premier" that would fit under my TV without having to buy a mount or a new AV stand, but I've heard cautions about mixing qualities even in the same brand...I should stick with an RP. thoughts???
@@garyausten5939 I have a pair of Polk speakers and bi-amplify them. Consider that woofers eat about half of your power. 100 watts/channel and 50 goes to the woofer. If you have enough amplifiers why not use 2 to amplify the woofers?
Thinking about using the new Sony AZ5000ES bi amp capabilities for the Klipsch rp600m 2? 😍
Sounds like a great idea! 🤘
@@ealanosborne Finally hooked up, The sound.... Effortless🤌
@@steverosales2616 🎉💯
...you had me at Tool. ;-]
I will need to try this on my old DefTech BP7001s and my Yamaha RX-A8A... (...before I configure 7.2.4)
Thinking about bi-amping my denon avr-2807 receiver just using at a 2 channel stereo is it worth it?
If you happen to already have the equipment to make it happen (speakers with 2 sets of binding posts), then yeah, check it out! But would I go out and buy speakers that can be bi-amped? Probably not. 🤷♂️
Tthanks for your explanation. I have the SR8015 that I only use in a 5.1 setup. I want to connect the front speakers bi-amp setup. In the Manuel of the SR8015 is only a 5.1 bi-amp option, 5.1ch Full Bi-Amp listed. As indicated, I only want to connect the front speaker in bi-amp. Which receiver connections should I use for lower terminals of my front speakers?
Regards Wim
According to the manual, you use the surround back terminals for the lower front speaker binding posts
@@ealanosborne Ealan, hereby, as promised, the Marantz respons on the Bi-amp settings (SR8015) in a front Bi-amp 5.1 setting.
If you only want to connect the front speakers Bi-amp 5.1 mode, you must choose the 7.1 (BI-amp) + Zone2. The 5.1 Full Bi-amp is not an option because the S8015 then thinks that all speakers are in Bi-amp. See diagram in Manuel SR8015.
Regards Wim
@@abzeker5877 Ohhhh, gotcha! Thanks for that! 🙌🎉
Thinking of bi amping my fronts. But I will need to use an external amp as i a want to keep my 5.1.4 setup. I have a Marantz C40.
So does that mean I need to really have a quad amp or two stereo amps and use the preouts. I assume you can't use a mix of receiver amps and external amps for bi-amping.
Might get a 5 channel amp, one for the centre as well.
Correct, you wouldn’t be able to use both internal and external amps combined to pull off bi-amping. In order to bi-amp with external speakers, you’d need an RCA Y-splitter, which I also have a video on. 😉
@ealanosborne not sure why you would need a splitter. Can I not designate the appropriate channels say channels 1,2,3,4 to preout to a quad amp.
Then say channels 1,2 be biamp 1 and 3,4 biamp 2. Then use channels 5,6,7,8,9,10,11 for the other speaker and they will use the internal amps?
Giving me 5.1.4 with two biamped fronts.
@@nickmaddalena985 No, sorry. The software just isn’t that intuitive to make it that customizable. If you want to bi-amp the front speakers, you need to connect a Y-splitter into each Front L/R preout and connect those to 4 channels on an external amp.
@ealanosborne sorry for the delay. So what you are saying I'd that I use only two channels and Y split the preout signal into 4 channels. In an amp. So basically 2 channels will be a duplicate of the same signal, which internally get fed into the two sets of binding posts on the main speakers?
Will the preout signal be degraded going through the y splitter? Would not the resistance be higher?
@@nickmaddalena985 Yes, you are understanding what I said correctly. 👍
The pre out signal does get split, yes, but any degradation at that gain stage is very minimal, and the external amp will do most of the work anyway. When I tested it for this video, it seemed to sound just fine! 🎉
Any speakers with biwire and biamp inputs would benefit tremendously more with a preamp and power amps than with a typical av receiver, especially when listening to music only.
Bi-amping while superior, yields little benefit when using the speakers internal Xover. Unless your speakers are specifically designed for this setup like my Tannoy System12DMT studio monitors, all you are doing is using a different amp running through the same Xover. True bi-amping requires an electronic Xover. Not even remotely close to the description in this video.
@keithmoriyama5421 This is from the Black Man O.G. and music loving audiophile, (My full title!🤣).Hmm....I agree but only partially, and here's why: I believe Electronic crossovers are mostly beneficial to speakers that don't have any. I performed a experiment (by accident! 🤣) a few years back with my Magnepan 1.6's. I was going to purchase another set of speakers but sent them back due to sonic dissatisfaction and shipping dings! As I reinstalled the Maggie's, I mistakenly put the Conrad-Johnson on the bass terminals and the Adcom 555 mk2 on the midrange and treble. The sound wasn't good at all and the Maggie's split frequency crossovers( the 1.7's, their successors only have single terminals) revealed the difference in extreme! The Maggie's along with the other speakers I've owned that could be bi wired and biampable benefited greatly. More bass definition, less strain, improved midrange and treble transparency deeper and wider sound staging was attained with tubes and transistors. This to me is better than monoblocks. Using a electronic crossover in the system with speakers that have crossovers already in them, I think would create more electronic haze distortion and musical discontinuity. Then again, I also believe there are some who were successful in doing so and I don't knock electronic crossovers at all. I recommend to all fellow music lovers and audiophiles to do whatever it takes( within budget!🤣) to extract maximum performance and long term musical satisfaction from their system! Keep the cd's, vinyl, reels and etc, spinning and enjoy the music. 🎶🎵👍😁
@@williamcampbell3868 Who goes through the passive cross over if you are bi-amping-- that makes no sense at all. Just bypass the cross over. I also own Magnepan 3.7's. Maggies are weird speaker with a crazy response and impedance curve so it is not a good example of electronic bi-amping. As for hearing all of these audiophile nirvana qualities-- More bass definition, less strain, improved midrange and treble transparency deeper and wider sound staging. I have never heard them in my life-- at least to the degree the audiophile community claims, and I have 30 years of paid professional work as a sound engineer, not to mention 4 high end systems. I have highly trained hearing but, I've never heard magic by changing a cable or a slight wiring trick.
p.s. If you have ever heard an electronically bi-amped system, the qualities are not what you describe.
@@keithmoriyama5421 I makes plenty of sense, especially when a lot of high end speaker manufacturers recommend it and the advantages of doing so if one wishes! Yes!, there are after market PASSIVE crossovers with high end parts equal to those found in some electronic crossovers. These are also being bi-amped with monoblocks by audiophiles. They are not wrong and neither are the designers and manufacturers! No, I'm no sound engineer, but I used to DJ, and I have more than 45 years of sound system exposure and concert experiences. Many sound systems I heard were great and many were absolutely terrible. I never heard the magic you mentioned either. My hearing is still very acute and discerning and I can hear the differences I mentioned in audio components and recordings
@@keithmoriyama5421 It makes plenty of sense, especially when many high end speaker manufacturers recommend it and the advantages of doing so if one wishes. There are speakers with internal crossover components equal to those in electronic crossovers and therefore don't need one unless the speakers don't have internal crossovers.
I'm no engineer but I used to DJ and have 45 years of sound system exposure and concert experiences. I've heard a lot of your colleagues systems. Many were great and many were absolutely terrible. My hearing is discerning and no, I haven't heard the magic you mentioned either. However I do hear the qualities I mentioned. They can be subtle and often not.
hello, I got Bowers & Wilkins 702 S3 speakers which says MAX 300 W total power coming from amp. I also got a Rotel 5 channel Amp with 210 W each channel. Can I use bi-amp (get 2 channels 210 W each from the amp) and feed 210 W on top and 210 W on the bottom on those B&W speaker? thanks. (BTW I got the same Maratz too).
Yes, that should still be fine, unless you plan on playing the music very loud for hours on end. 😄 It’s actually good to have a lot of headroom with a more powerful amp, as opposed to an amp with not enough power that’s trying too hard and introducing distortion into the signal path.
Thanks for your video! I am looking to buy speakers that state they are IPR ready. Can I run these as regular speakers? The speakers are not that expensive...they are Polk Audio SC80 IPR. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Hi! Yes, you can use them as regular speakers since they have standard +/- speaker terminals, but are IP ready, if you decide to do that at some point instead. 👍
@@ealanosborne Thanks for the quick reply! Now looking for an Amp/ Reveiver that will be sufficient for a six speaker plus one subwoofer. If you don't mind...can I ask what I should be looking for without breaking the bank?
@@georgematos9380 Hmmm…well if you want 6 speakers and a sub, a 7 channel AVR would work best. Something like the Onkyo TX-NR7100 or Denon X1800H or X2800H, depending on your budget. Those are all fairly future proof, supporting HDMI 2.1, 8K and 4K video, next gen gaming features if you play video games a lot, and sufficient power for an entry level speaker system. 👍
@@ealanosborne Once again thank you for your guidance! Great job on the videos and in particular with the inserting of humor! Sincerely...
next up, bi-wiring!
From what I have researched, bi-wiring is the same as having a thicker (lower gauge) cable. So bi-wiring with two 14AGW would be aprox. the same as having a single 8AWG. But someone correct me if I'm wrong.
@@Donly1pt removing the usual crappy plates and using more copper, as you describe, both make a difference. However, the two pairs of wires carry separate frequencies, in line with the filter circuits in the crossovers, so there is less contamination of the delicate tweeter feed by the thundering great bass currents. No doubt bi-amping is better but bi-wiring is a still a worthwhile upgrade.
I applied bi-amp to my Yamaha NS-555 tower speakers - which are budget speakers from Yamaha as you know - and then got a big difference, it really made sense. The AVR is also 10 years old Yamaha Aventage RX-A1010 btw. I do not have any experience with bookshelf speakers hence cannot comment on that but for tower speakers, if you have a receiver capable of bi-amping then for sure you should take the opportunity and try it.. Now I am thinking of upgrading receiver to a new one with Dolby Atmos /Dts-X etc newer features and considering with bi-amping I must invest on a device with 11 amplified channels for a 5.1.4 setup which means that it will be most likely a flagship model.
Find a 3080 from Yamaha, cheaper and pretty much does the same, you only need an extra 2 channel amp for 11 channels.
Some people say anything about what exactly is bi-amping . You must have 2 amplifiers
I passive bi amp'ed my Infinity RS IIIa's a few years ago and they never sounded better. Too much power and ohms going to a single binding post. IMHO the top end stole from the woofers and vice versa. Now they are powered separately they both shine like never before not to mention I have not blown up an amp since I did them.
Niiiiiice! 🤘
Hey I have a question I haven't been able to find an answer too... I just got some Klipsch 8000f towers and they are capable of bi-amping. Is it possible to use a 4 channel amp like the emotiva bassX and Bi amp from that? Thanks love your videos!!
I actually did test this out...kind of. But since I only had a 2 channel amp on hand, I didn't want to include my results in the video, just in case they were false due to not having a 4 channel amp in my possession currently.
But I think it's a software thing. At least with my Marantz SR7015. It seemed as if when setting the mode to "5.1ch (bi-amp) + Zone 2, it only activates the front left and right pre outs, because I never got a signal coming out of the "Height 1+2" pre outs.
BUT...I think you still could technically use a BasX A4 by using RCA splitters, so 1 RCA goes into the right front receiver pre out, which then splits into 2 in the back of the A4. Same with the Left Front pre out.
OR...you could take an A2 and bi-wire instead. You connect the right and left front pre outs to the A2 with RCA patch cables, then have 2 sets of speaker wire coming out of the A2 right front speaker terminal and connecting to the HF and LF terminals of the right front speaker. Then same with the Left Front speaker wire. Totally sorry if this isn't exactly making sense. I'm still not 100% sure that I'm correct in this assessment, so don't quote me on this. Bottom line is, it's complicated. 😄
@@ealanosborne hahaha thanks so much for the reply. I appreciate your help!
Thank you for that info.👍
You’re welcome! 😉
You are bi-wiring, but there are many ways to bi-amp. My wife has a set of Klipsh with Atmos speakers built in. And many high end speakers these days have a built-in subwoofer amplifier. But there are still other reasons and ways to bi-amp. I have a high end Onkyo 9 channel theater amp (130 watts RMS per channel @ 8Ω, 4Ω stable) powering a set of vintage Pioneer HPM 1100 speakers (125 watts RMS, 6.3Ω, 3.5cu-ft of internal space) The Onkyo, used alone, works well powering them, but it sounded weak when also driving the 7 other speakers. With bi-wiring, I will still have the same problem. The power supply will still be over worked and drive the 15 inch subwoofers poorly. In this case, if you want to keep the big speakers, the only solution is to use a second amp. I had a Pioneer Elite 4 channel amp @ 135 watts per channel, that I started using for the sole purpose of driving these large speakers. And it did a great job. But damage and wear dictated that it was time to make another change. So, the Pioneer HPM 1100’s 45-year-old, 15-inch, 4Ω speakers got replaced with Skar DDX15-D2s. This is a set of large 1000-watt RMS, dual coil subwoofers, that are made for a ported box from 3.5 to 4 cu-ft. To drive these, I had to bi-amp the HPM 1100s. I let the Onkyo’s front speaker terminals handle the top speakers, and a Crown XLS 2502 pro-amp handles the bottom 15-inch subwoofers. The Crown pro-amp is driven by the Onkyo’s front speaker pre-amp RCA outs. Which goes to an Art Cleanbox Pro’s RCA ins, through to its XLR outs, to the Crown pro-amp’s XLR ins. The Art Cleanbox Pro is a converter that makes home sound equipment’s connections compatible with pro-equipment. The Crown has RCA ins, but using the Cleanbox, can double this amp’s output level. In a 22 X 26-foot living room with a cathedral ceiling, there are now massive amounts of vibrations in that room to where you can very noticeably feel the bass, even at lower levels. The Crown pro amp drives each subwoofer at a 1200-watt potential. That’s 2400 watts RMS driving two 15 inch competition grade subwoofers, mounted in large ported cabinets. With this configuration, the resulting sound and feel is awesome. You can feel the power. Note: If you bi-amp a speaker, you have to compensate for the load that you removed from the crossover network. In my case, I ran the wires to 8-inch Skar IX-8 D2 subwoofers @ 4Ω, that I built to fit perfectly on top of the HPM 1100s (separated with isolation pads). This makes the top end of the HPM 1100s full range. The Crown I’m using is a great class D amp. It sounds precise and is easy to adjust, it’s efficient and very powerful, and I’ve never heard its fan or any other unwanted noises. The result of this project is well worth every penny and minute that I spent on it. All of the options you have read about above, kicks the crap out of any Bi-wire system that I have ever seen.
Thank you. You have stopped my FOMO 😅
I have a 7.2 channel receiver by Sony (Dh790)
And the klipsch Dolby Atmos 5.1.4
I have everything hooked up except the the two front height speakers built into the front left and right speakers. My two rear speakers also have height speakers built in.
I'm thinking about t taping all 4 of the height speakers
Great video☺️☺️ hey in channel adjust in denon wht should ne the surround parameters in db!?! Its very low!?! Im using klipsch r41 !!
How loud your surrounds are depends on how close they are to your main listening position. Are they near your head? Then not too loud. Are they 6 feet behind you and to the sides a bit? Then louder. Audyssey does a pretty good job initially when determining the loudness a speaker should be depending on how far away it is. Then it's just a matter of adjusting the dB to your liking after that. 👍
@@ealanosborne thanks man!!! That’s an awesome explanation
The thing is with av receiver if you biamp(4 channel driven) you have less power per channel than of you dont ( 2 channel driven)
Like Linn Kaber..3 binding posts…hungry for tbh nothing
Tell an audio enthusiast that this one simple thing "could improve your music listening experience". You can bet they will at the very least try it. I don't have a lifetime supply of cable sitting around for nothing. 😆
TRY IT!!!! 😄
There're others aspects to consider, like the sensibility of the speakers and the resistivity of the speakers and/or receiver.
I tried with my KEF 900 and Yamaha RX671.. guess the mid range receiver wasn't able to prove the value to me. I went with front receiver channels to power the speaker tweeters and extra bi amped surround channel to power the bass drivers - I hardly noticed any change to be honest. Could be my ears or maybe the receiver being average - I'd be interested if anyone saw improvements with similar setup. I'm back to single cables as it wasn't worth the hassle to use the 2 pairs of wires for a single pair speakers.
I wouldn’t waste my time bi-amping with a receiver.
Bi-amping using External amps, on the other hand, is far superior….
I agree 100%. An AV receiver, unless it's the size of a house and cost around the same is never going to have the power.
Bi amping with a receiver makes a huge differences. Let’s say the amp is 100wpc, with bi amping, the woofer and tweeters each get 100wpc. Without bi amping, the tweeters and woofer have to share and thus get 50wpc each. Bi amping doubles the output.
I’ve always heard huge differences and I’ve bi amped 3 different pair of speakers using different AVs.
I see amp, I buy amp.
😄🤘
Everyone got on the bandwagon..it’s a business in the end…extra channels..extra cable..snake oil..yes headroom…but..nah
Much like these expensive DACS..snake oil..limitations…it’s never going to happen..around and around
You lost me at "listen to music on my home theatre system "
Incredible advancements in recording technology since 1993????????
Holy crap, were you born yesterday? Spoken like a millennial.
♥️♥️♥️
Absolutely no benefits in doing so. I have never noticed any difference bi-wiring the speakers, nor Bi-amping them, same quality if you keep the jumpers. I tried this on my B&W 800 D3 and the Sonus Faber Aida, and at the end it was a waste of money on very expensive cables.
That is my opinion. And in any case this only would work if is no cross overs and each channel is 100% separate from the other.