Hello you beauties. Access all episodes 10 hours earlier than RUclips by Subscribing on Spotify - spoti.fi/2LSimPn or Apple Podcasts - apple.co/2MNqIgw. Here’s the timestamps: 00:00 The Internet is Saturated with Garbage 10:27 Why People Compare Opponents to Nazis So Quickly 14:34 Why is Happiness Evolutionary? 26:09 When Incels Think They Would Be Better Suited to Medieval Times 36:33 A Crisis of Purpose is a Privilege 41:00 Why Activists Can Never Be Content 47:14 We Don’t Take Expert Advice Unless We Agree With It 56:26 Does Karma Really Exist? 1:00:10 The Issue with Tribalism in the Digital Age 1:08:00 Intelligent People Can Often Have Stupid Opinions 1:17:09 Challenging Chris’s Vestigial Pattern Bias 1:26:15 The War for Public Sympathy on Social Media 1:39:30 Why the Female Boss Role in Hollywood Isn’t Working 1:47:27 Societal Consequences of Grind Culture 1:52:57 Judging People from the Past Whilst Ignoring the Sins of the Present 2:03:24 Where to Find Gurwinder
The very last point gave me an idea. When Gurwinder was talking about how people in the past had to be brutal, that it was required for the times. It kind of reminded me of the saying "standing on the shoulders of giants" but could instead be rewritten as “we are standing on the shoulders of monsters that raised us up out of the hell that they had to endure”
Gurwinders episodes are always my favourite. He needs a cinematic 4k special asap! Genuinely was so wholesome talking about appreciating the little things in life. And I agree, it’s mind boggling that we can through an app get any food we want (customised to our liking) from any part of the world.
1:44:00 I found this segment very interesting and based on my observations the dynamics between competition amongst women are far different than competition amongst males. Hollywood wants to push the idea of women competing with each other or external powers in the traditional male ways, without the necessary hardships and journeys to gain such power to compete in such spaces. You can even observe this on a social level around us, women don’t prefer to externally challenge each other, especially not physically the way males do. You can also observe that in the real world women who push each other down for the sake of reaching newer heights are shamed by other women and looked down upon. It’s almost like all women want to win together, effortlessly with no hardships on the way, because they just deserve it. When you look at the way competition truly works, there are always going to be losers, not everybody can win and not everybody can have the same prize. Some people will be better than others. You also have to work hard to dominate and surpass others,(even other women) you don’t just receive rewards or a gold medal just for being a woman . These are the basic standards of competition amongst males, and why we set our hierarchies the way we do. You can’t try competing at the male-level without the necessary hardships, hierarchies, and competitive aggression to do so.
Fantastic to have Gurwinder back. The conversation is always enlightening. The part about intricately researched bullshit papers produced by academics was particularly enjoyable.
This is one of the best episodes of the podcast I've heard recently. So good that I've gone back in your history and listened to all the previous interviews with Gurwinder. I wasn't aware of him before. There's a lot of wisdom to be gained from him.
Alright, so, I never comment on this podcast even though it is my favourite one, but I have been thinking about something lately that I would like to express: I feel like you are not challenging the guests ideas enough sometimes Chris. You seem to agree 95% of the time with whatever they are saying, and it is not always a bad thing, actually it is often quite interesting because you bring addtional information and perspectives, but almost always in a manner which adds water to their mill, and it would be even more interesting if you were a bit more confrontational, not for the sake of being contrarian, but to test the ideas and the information being presented. --- An example: > Gurwinder speaks about the fact that you should be satisfied with what you have / what you are, rather than always focusing on what you could or will have / be if you want to truly be happy, and you add "If you can't be happy with a coffee you can't be happy with a yatch". Here are some objections to that which could have been said to make things even more interesting: - First, what if happiness were not the end goal of life ? What if meaning or accomplishment, or progress or providing for your family and your children and their children and all your decendants were ? Under this condition wouldn't focusing on always getting more or always doing better make more sense and be a better strategy than being satisfied and basking in gratefulness ? - Second, even if happiness were the end goal, about the "coffee and yatch" thing, who said that you can't be happy once you reach a certain objective, get a certain material possession, or gain a certain situation ? Who said that everyone is always eternally disatisfied no matter what they get ? I know for a fact that I am now way happier in my current city than I was a few month ago when I lived in a really boring town, and that I will be significantly happier once I get the job in IT that I've been trying to get for years. I know plenty of people who got significantly happier from getting a better house, a better job, or by moving to a different city. This reminds me of the following quote: "Those who say money can't buy happiness don't know where to shop.". Anyway this was just an example, and you might argue against the specific arguments here, but my main point is that you could make the podcast even better by not being too agreeable and by confronting your guests' ideas a bit more often. I know you once said that you felt like your job was "to constantly be the stupidest person in the room" because of the caliber of the guests that you invite, but I'm sure that you have more than enough logic, knowledge, and reasoning to argue and challenge them. It's just a minor piece of constructive criticism, because I absolutely love this podcast and I think that you are one of the best, measured, and objective hosts and overall youtube personalities out there, and the work that you are doing is having a very postivie impact on the platform, and to an extent the world itself, as little as it may be (for now at least but who knows). Love PS: I'd love to see Alexander Grace and Orion Taraban (Psyhacks youtube channel) on the podcast.
"If there is a debate about free will it will almost always end with them discussing what free will is." What a masterpiece of inherent logic. Love it 🎉:)
17:00 - Agee whole heartedly - the older (53) I get the more I appreciate the small things. Waking up and the bed is the perfect temperature so you stay for an extra 10 mins. Not realising your feeling slightly chilly then you put your arms in warm water to do the washing up and you get that beautiful warm wave rushing over you. Just looking at your kids and marvelling at them and your love for them. Euphoria is fleeting by nature where as contentment is longer lasting and more akin to what most people really mean by happiness. However nobody proclaims their aspiration to be content.
Fred you have a new subscriber - Love the ‘Told through the lens of friends’ video. Genius. Snap - I have been taking my kids car roof surfing since they were about 8 years old.
As I become more knowledgeable and aware/self aware, it makes me realise just how many people lack self awareness. They could be the loveliest of folk but nonetheless, clueless about their own behaviour. I also like to reflect on my own past and feel thankful I’m able to self analyse. I’m intrigued where I will be in 10 years, as there’s still so much more to discover☺️ Also nice to see Gurwinder in HD now haha.
Always a pleasure and i feel like i can breathe better whenever Chris and Gurwinder having a conversation, you put what i feel about twitter, tweeting, social media into words so precisely and eloquently.
🎉😊❤ Thank you so much, Chris for your fascinating podcasts. Yesterday I recommended your podcasts to two beautiful hair sylists because I think you are a fine communicator from the perspective of your generation. 🎉😊❤ Fun, fantastic and full of intelligent and compassionate curiosity.
Brilliant! You’ve completely smashed the culture war’s narrative! Re: 25-40mins in. Thank you! Saving and keeping for reference. Beautifully articulated.
Bhogal is right on: Any productive debate should START with a definition of terms. If you don't agree on implicit definitions, no point. Lots of time has been wasted on talking past each other. And the dishonest thrive on fuzziness of emotionally-laden terms that they can't or refuse to define.
So many great quotes in this episode. And I loved the role out of the Sam episode. I was the person excited having the two of you talking. Thanks for the hard work.
Love gurwinders stuff as always, whilst i agree that the vast majority of tweets are written with a lack of thought, and this comment is an example of an idea that has just popped into my head lol. But I think in some scenarios, the quick emotional tweets of a person could potentially reveal a greater insight into their true feelings on a topic, as it is often done spur of the moment, so as you say, they have thought less about it. In that sense it becomes less calculated, and where views/opinions/image can be manipulated online or portrayed however you wish with writing etc, I think it could also provide a more honest (correct or not) insight into that person in many cases so can be deemed somewhat equally important, just in a different manner. Not necessarily in the terms of rational truth on a topic, but truth with regards to that persons emotional state or feelings towards a topic it would likely be more truthful.
I've never heard of Mr. Bhogal until today, but I like him. I came to a similar conclusion about the word "deserve" some time ago--most things people think they "deserve" are a product of an advanced society with huge amounts of infrastructure that requires massive amounts of time, energy, and money to maintain. It's easy to think water comes from the faucet when one cannot see the miles of pipes that brought it there. I think our one point of disagreement would be on meat. I have many concerns about lab-grown meat that I don't think are too conspiratorial: How much time, energy, money, and resources are required to create the nutrient bath that the meat grows in? Is this process sustainable? Where do we get the nutrients necessary to grow lab-grown meat? How close is the nutrient quality of lab-grown meat to that of an animal that comes from our highest quality farms (quality in this instance meaning happiest animals)? How complex is it to grow lab-grown meat? Is it something that poor people could do in their backyard, like raising chickens or quails? I am generally skeptical of any process that removes production even further beyond the reach of ordinary people. It's a bias, for sure, but it seems that many critical details get hidden behind the complexity which make something like lab-grown meat (or factory farming) easier to swallow. For instance, most of modern agriculture utilizes tillage to grow annual crops like wheat and corn. Tillage kills many animals and disrupts large ecosystems by its nature. Pesticides may be even worse. So how much do we factor in the suffering and death of those animals? How many groundhogs killed by tilling for wheat equate to a cow's suffering or a pig's suffering, presuming the nutrition that would have been supplied by the cow or pig is supplied by wheat? Don't get me wrong, I abhor factory farming. However, I don't know if it is possible to completely eliminate suffering from our food supply when the final accounting is done. Better to get at the devil in the details, like Temple Grandin, whenever possible. At least with a pig raised by Joel Salatin, I can rest assured knowing that the pig had a pretty good life in which it could express its "pigness".
Amazing episode. I will listen to It again in the future, as I have done with the previous episodes. I also leave wanting to learn more about the world. Cheers from Spain ❤
One potential escape from the happiness treadmill is the idea of detachment, merely observing your feelings, emotions and desires but letting them have no impact on your rather existential state, thus finding contentment inside yourself rather than making it dependent on your successes. Buddhism is to a significant extent focused on this idea (or similar, at least), and you can see various similar notions in stoicism, Christianity and I'm sure many other religions, philosophies and whatnot else.
I may be inordinately fond of timestamps on videos like this. It's the way my brain works. Thanks for that. More great content, by the way. Keep after it, Chris and Gurwinder. 👍
Oh, Gurwinder, everyone's favourite guest. Chris, you should give him a badge or something for the 5th? appearance. Cheers from Spain to all modern wisers. I love you all.
Same here! We can't get enough of him! I don't use Twitter or Substack so this is the only place I can listen to him! Fav guest as well! Aquí Costa Rica en la casa! jaja
I would always argue the chances of a happier life was much easier to obtain in past centuries, and would disagree it has any correlation with a yearning of childhood! Society today has taken us far away from a life we're hardwired to live, and the wanting of a life back then is more related to how unachievable a more simple and rewarding life has become today
Don't worry Gurwinder, I'll eat more meat to balance it out. Having been raised around cattle and participated in dispatching an animal and butchering it, I'm not bothered. But I'm far more grateful than most people for the animals life and death. I will not eat the lab grown meat. Point of fact, we need more cattle farming. They are key to Regenerative Farming. Chris needs Alan Savory on to discuss.
Ah the Pineapple story/history; was that from Bill Bryson's Home book? I've definitely read about it somewhere. Great conversation- so enjoying this. Thank you
Great exchange! Though I believe I disagree with CW's seeming straw-man version of the distress of an existential crisis (and there's a lot to say about trauma, also), I found this to be a very stimulating and very important conversation for thinking about our time and place!
Good to be realistically unpredictable. It boosts the Adventure and allows us all to survive better due to practical quantum criss-crossing. But we only have a roughly 5 metre sphere of “Reality” around our centre points. So, tread with care in the unknown-unknown zones!
12:10 that's the thing of it, when you don't like the valid point being made and can't argue against it, just try to claim the words being used don't mean that point being presented as if that somehow makes the point being presented not themselves point being presented. A total breakdown in comprehending how words serve as a tool to communicate ideas, but that words don't define what idea is being communicated. It's the intended idea the speaker is wanting to communicate that defines the idea being communicated, not the words being used nor the listener's preferred definitions of those words.
My pet hate in an online argument is when people don't follow their own standards. They'll make fallacies such as strawman, ad hominem, argument from authority etc... but if you mimic their style they'll dismiss everything you've said as strawman, ad hominem, argument from authority. If you're going to put it on the table you can't object when other people use it. Some of these people are decent trolls. Others aren't self aware enough and frankly not too bright.
Happiness is more like a resource to my mind, I conceptualize it like the heart containers in legend of Zelda. Each of those goals along the way you are chasing to make you happy add to your maximum number of hearts, but day to day life will require hits and healing to stave off depression. For example; if one has achieved the goal of having a partner and children, they can likely hold up better in the face of misfortune. Happiness is a horizon, but you get level ups along the way if you manage to reach the goals you set in some satisfactory way.
Maybe the 48 hour rule should be imposed in reverse. Any Twitter post is pending for 48 hours, and you have a chance to reverse your decision before it goes public.
Good points! but the guest omits a lot of variables among nations. I agree with the external locus of control influences across the world which is now further complicated by social media’s globalising phenomenon. For example, War caused social hardships resulted in poverty, displacement, and ongoing corrupt leadership in Somalia which is my homeland has resulted in suffering and further complicates the famine we have seen in the last 30 years. There seems to be be more draughts happening. Prior to the civil war, Somalia enjoyed amazing natural resources, they were able to overcome famines without needing foreign aid I. E 1974 famine. My point, modernity and agriculture may have helped the industrialised societies of the west which lack natural resources but modernity and its ideas (AKA colonial ideology) facilitated by self serving local leaders is linked to have caused more hardships in that part of the world. Just another perspective!
I disagree with Gurwinder on how lab meat is the future. I think we need to look at smaller scale ethical farming, investment in crop cycling and have a hybrid diet. Personally I use protein powders to lower my meat intake recently as I’m self aware that I’m contributing to suffering however it’s hard to live in this world without doing so. Slave labour tech and clothing etc. It’s down to each of us to make small choices like this now to stop global interests mandating what you can do later on
Sorry, I am not ok with lab meat. My family eats meat pretty much daily, and the overwhelming portion of that is 1/2 cow and 1/2 pig each year purchased straight from the farm where the cow was born and lived its entire life on grass. We use to raise our own hogs and back then could get pepperoni made, which is our main misery food product now. I am well aware of what's wrong with our system, but I don't think frankifood is the solution.
I found it really interesting, when Chris spoke about how he treis to manufacture anticipation and excitement. Because I completely ignore them. I find the clips and shorts and everything else mostly distracting annoying. I just want the real stuff!
Dr Jordan Peterson considers EVERYTHING he says, let alone types. For you to categorise this incredible human being simply as a ‘boomer’, is of a great disservice to your eminent podcasts. I am a great admirer of your content and delivery; the first time you’ve disappointed.
Great episode....but....watch movies before you comment on them! Rey does not match your preconceived notions, as there are a lot of struggles in the last 3 movies. Loved the insight and interaction! Keep up the great work!
I always find it weird how people think it's wrong that humans eat meat but they have no problem with other animals eating meat. Humans evolved like many other animals with meat as part of their diet. I'm against factory farming but I'm not against ethically raised meat. The animals we eat dont take it personally, it's a part of the circle of life and if we weren't there to eat a particular animal another meat eater eventually would. We're a part of the animal kingdom and I think people are starting to forget that as they place themselves further and further away from real nature. I've lived in a rural area most of my life and I hike in woodlands that are inhabited by mountain lions and if one day I'm killed by a lion I wont take it personally. It's the circle of life, I dont think I'd win but I'd try my best to give the lion one hell of a fight because that's in my nature to do so but I fully accept and understand that it's in the lions nature to eat meat. It's in our nature to eat some meat. Animals in nature do not have pretty deaths, they either starve and are then eaten or they are eaten to death. I can guarantee most wild animals suffer far worse deaths than ethically raised and slaughtered farm animals.
Meditation might be the original atelic activity. The old people sat purely for the sake of sitting, and would be quite puzzled by our idea of mindfulness or meditating on something.
1:02 obviously if you don’t have “”blah blah .., and obviously you need this and you NEED that to survive, and you also NEED to find fulfillment in the things that you DO have, so it’s contradicting to say you need one thing to survive () when you need a lot of things to survive and not having them is just as important to be thankful for having what you do have to survive, so there are more factors then just having to find people to live with, since there’s always going to be one thing in exchange for another, and if you have everything in your life your still missing the other thing (s) that is a trade off, and if you have the balance just right you have to maintain which is a trade of as well, and as soon as you are self fulfilled you have other to attain to, so there’s always room for additional things to Need to survive.
So like, what would be the use-case to have a different keyboard layout so that we can type faster? Yeah, we could do it, we could have an alphabetic keyboard or whatever, but I think we stick to QWERTY because while we could type faster theoretically, there just isn't a need for it. Or the potential gains are just not worth the trouble.
"Oh, To Know The Sky" I shall never comprehend, that of human minds. For, they look up, and believe they know the sky. They walk around, and believe they know the ground. To exist such as this, is to simply exist absent sense. To exist absent, the ability to be, sound. Be there, no profound statement able to be emitted, from such a diaphragm. For, within the simplicity of mindless entities, such is simply, not allowed. When one thinks deeply. When one attempts to comprehend complexity. One finds, the absence of knowing. For, in truth, to know, would be to exist tethered to stagnation. To the simplicity of, actuality. For, within actuality, one finds, that which shall forever be present. That which, in truth, shall exist absent change. For, all mammals seek the ability to breathe. For, all seek to be consuming beings. To be, that which survives. The simplicity of seeking, genetic immortality. Such, shall never cease. Even after extinction, new entities shall begin existing. Shall feast upon, that which the human leaves. That which, becomes earth, no longer inhabited by homosapiens. For, within such, within the simplicity of existence, all shall go in and out, in a instance. Shall cease, constantly. Shall be formed, constantly. Shall be nothing, then, everything...
In regards to saying if men now aren't successful with women they wouldn't have been several hundred years ago. On a personal note I was quite successful with women perhaps 4 or 5 years ago and have gotten less and less until now I have not been able to get a date with someone I find desirable for almost 2 years. This is despite the fact that I'm now significantly more successful and put together than those years ago. So I'd argue on a personal level at least things have changed significantly in just our lifetime even.
“We were locked in the kitchen I took to religion and wondered how long she would stay. I needed so much to have nothing to touch, I’ve always been greedy that way”
I used to believe the state of mind for happiness shit. And then I got cancer which is gunna take bits of me away piece by piece and kill me early. I still actively try to be grateful for what I have but I’d 100% be happier without the cancer that’s a non question.
I'm curious what you both think about how humans will adapt when catastrophic ecological overshoot finally catches up with the wealthy people in the world. "Hedonic adaptation" - will it work in reverse as we get used to a much simplified life (technologically)? Also hope you can discuss the idea of "progress" -- I look at it as primarily a bad thing because of the destructive impacts to the natural world (which will eventually cause collapse for humanity) -- but this is an idea that everyone assumes is only a good thing. Thx, great conversation.
Do ALL humans, of average IQ, even have the sentience to choose not to eat factory-farmed meat? I am vegetarian except for cold blooded creatures, mostly aquatic and all lower phyla. But I cannot manage to believe even half of humanity even has the wherewithall, even with education, to make that ethical choice. To me, this just means the rest of us are under special privilege and maybe pressure to make ethical sweeps by our individual choices and, well, what you said here is a great take. OK, sorry for multiposting, but amazing discussion, guys. I love the channel. Waited for these cultural moments a Millennial lifetime.
The idea is a fair one, that it's the fact people have had their locus of control externalised, and so blame the modern age. I'd posit that it's the opposite, that they yearn for an age when they had to have a locus of control - The decendents that made it here, would have had this locus - and the people in the present have had it removed, and its at odds with what was required for survival up to this point. My arguement isn't any better than his, it's just a different way to think of it. I also don't think you can get around the fact that life was simpler - Not without tragedy, misery or misfortune - But certainly in the UK that had to have been the case - Why else are the so many different accents? You stayed where you were from, in one area, surrounded by people you'd know for your entire life. In all likelihood, farming!
Like, how do you make anything today? Literally everything has 100 different components or refinement done on it - Just me typing this comment into RUclips has thousands of people working away to get it to happen. But the past wasn't simplier? How do you make a pencil on your own? Mental thoughts to just say something like that so blithly.
Damn, I hadn't heard someone with the same opinion as me when it comes to DID, "real" or not, they do it to deal with their life, as crap or as good as it is Btw about deserving in nature, let me enlighten you: you poke a bear (cause), you deserve to get mauled by the bear (effect), regardless of your intention or inherent factors of the action of poking so, "deserving" is in direct relation to what you do but it doesn't mean the outcome will be favourable to you, given the various examples of evil getting away with evil and good not being rewarded with an equal outcome, another example: "you deserve better", but you don't have it, and maybe you never will, but you can (only) try and increase your chances of getting it
One more thing. When we remove God from our lives, it is impossible to live a fulfilling and satisfying life. To be content we must give of ourselves. And being taken to our real home with God when we leave this life we will no longer be people who cry- me, me, me.
32:24 I think it’s more an indication that they want to be around their tribe and only their tribe instead of being around outsiders who deteriorate their homeland and take resources from them and make it harder to live in security because they’re being overrun. But of course we can’t talk about this, and instead dance around it in ways to diminish those peoples real issues lmao. Beyond subversive and disgusting behavior tbh. But what can one expect from intellectuals who are censored by threat of violent force lmao. Of course they won’t talk about the damage they’re doing to people and will try and make themselves feel good about it by denigrating those peoples intelligence or character. Of course that only shows their character is denigrated and unintelligent in comparison lmao.
Hello you beauties. Access all episodes 10 hours earlier than RUclips by Subscribing on Spotify - spoti.fi/2LSimPn or Apple Podcasts - apple.co/2MNqIgw. Here’s the timestamps:
00:00 The Internet is Saturated with Garbage
10:27 Why People Compare Opponents to Nazis So Quickly
14:34 Why is Happiness Evolutionary?
26:09 When Incels Think They Would Be Better Suited to Medieval Times
36:33 A Crisis of Purpose is a Privilege
41:00 Why Activists Can Never Be Content
47:14 We Don’t Take Expert Advice Unless We Agree With It
56:26 Does Karma Really Exist?
1:00:10 The Issue with Tribalism in the Digital Age
1:08:00 Intelligent People Can Often Have Stupid Opinions
1:17:09 Challenging Chris’s Vestigial Pattern Bias
1:26:15 The War for Public Sympathy on Social Media
1:39:30 Why the Female Boss Role in Hollywood Isn’t Working
1:47:27 Societal Consequences of Grind Culture
1:52:57 Judging People from the Past Whilst Ignoring the Sins of the Present
2:03:24 Where to Find Gurwinder
Wie heißtWie heißt
The very last point gave me an idea. When Gurwinder was talking about how people in the past had to be brutal, that it was required for the times. It kind of reminded me of the saying "standing on the shoulders of giants" but could instead be rewritten as “we are standing on the shoulders of monsters that raised us up out of the hell that they had to endure”
That is a stunning rewrite. And so true. As one of the monsters, I understand your often misreading us.
Gurwinders episodes are always my favourite. He needs a cinematic 4k special asap! Genuinely was so wholesome talking about appreciating the little things in life. And I agree, it’s mind boggling that we can through an app get any food we want (customised to our liking) from any part of the world.
I propose that the 4K special take place on the African savannah
People like Gurwinder are why I still love Twitter. He's one of the people in my curated feed.
Gur is the man. One of the most cogent thinkers on the internet. His Substack is brilliant.
1:44:00 I found this segment very interesting and based on my observations the dynamics between competition amongst women are far different than competition amongst males.
Hollywood wants to push the idea of women competing with each other or external powers in the traditional male ways, without the necessary hardships and journeys to gain such power to compete in such spaces. You can even observe this on a social level around us, women don’t prefer to externally challenge each other, especially not physically the way males do. You can also observe that in the real world women who push each other down for the sake of reaching newer heights are shamed by other women and looked down upon. It’s almost like all women want to win together, effortlessly with no hardships on the way, because they just deserve it. When you look at the way competition truly works, there are always going to be losers, not everybody can win and not everybody can have the same prize. Some people will be better than others. You also have to work hard to dominate and surpass others,(even other women) you don’t just receive rewards or a gold medal just for being a woman . These are the basic standards of competition amongst males, and why we set our hierarchies the way we do. You can’t try competing at the male-level without the necessary hardships, hierarchies, and competitive aggression to do so.
Just avoid people... especially the modern females.
Fantastic to have Gurwinder back. The conversation is always enlightening. The part about intricately researched bullshit papers produced by academics was particularly enjoyable.
Gurwinder is hands down my favorite guest
This is one of the best episodes of the podcast I've heard recently. So good that I've gone back in your history and listened to all the previous interviews with Gurwinder. I wasn't aware of him before. There's a lot of wisdom to be gained from him.
Alright, so, I never comment on this podcast even though it is my favourite one, but I have been thinking about something lately that I would like to express:
I feel like you are not challenging the guests ideas enough sometimes Chris.
You seem to agree 95% of the time with whatever they are saying, and it is not always a bad thing, actually it is often quite interesting because you bring addtional information and perspectives, but almost always in a manner which adds water to their mill, and it would be even more interesting if you were a bit more confrontational, not for the sake of being contrarian, but to test the ideas and the information being presented.
--- An example:
> Gurwinder speaks about the fact that you should be satisfied with what you have / what you are, rather than always focusing on what you could or will have / be if you want to truly be happy, and you add "If you can't be happy with a coffee you can't be happy with a yatch".
Here are some objections to that which could have been said to make things even more interesting:
- First, what if happiness were not the end goal of life ? What if meaning or accomplishment, or progress or providing for your family and your children and their children and all your decendants were ? Under this condition wouldn't focusing on always getting more or always doing better make more sense and be a better strategy than being satisfied and basking in gratefulness ?
- Second, even if happiness were the end goal, about the "coffee and yatch" thing, who said that you can't be happy once you reach a certain objective, get a certain material possession, or gain a certain situation ? Who said that everyone is always eternally disatisfied no matter what they get ?
I know for a fact that I am now way happier in my current city than I was a few month ago when I lived in a really boring town, and that I will be significantly happier once I get the job in IT that I've been trying to get for years.
I know plenty of people who got significantly happier from getting a better house, a better job, or by moving to a different city.
This reminds me of the following quote: "Those who say money can't buy happiness don't know where to shop.".
Anyway this was just an example, and you might argue against the specific arguments here, but my main point is that you could make the podcast even better by not being too agreeable and by confronting your guests' ideas a bit more often.
I know you once said that you felt like your job was "to constantly be the stupidest person in the room" because of the caliber of the guests that you invite, but I'm sure that you have more than enough logic, knowledge, and reasoning to argue and challenge them.
It's just a minor piece of constructive criticism, because I absolutely love this podcast and I think that you are one of the best, measured, and objective hosts and overall youtube personalities out there, and the work that you are doing is having a very postivie impact on the platform, and to an extent the world itself, as little as it may be (for now at least but who knows).
Love
PS: I'd love to see Alexander Grace and Orion Taraban (Psyhacks youtube channel) on the podcast.
"If there is a debate about free will it will almost always end with them discussing what free will is." What a masterpiece of inherent logic. Love it 🎉:)
Gurwinder always brings the heat!
17:00 - Agee whole heartedly - the older (53) I get the more I appreciate the small things. Waking up and the bed is the perfect temperature so you stay for an extra 10 mins. Not realising your feeling slightly chilly then you put your arms in warm water to do the washing up and you get that beautiful warm wave rushing over you. Just looking at your kids and marvelling at them and your love for them. Euphoria is fleeting by nature where as contentment is longer lasting and more akin to what most people really mean by happiness. However nobody proclaims their aspiration to be content.
Fred you have a new subscriber - Love the ‘Told through the lens of friends’ video. Genius. Snap - I have been taking my kids car roof surfing since they were about 8 years old.
Do that in your 20s and later you'll wish you'd been less enlightened.
I wish I could like this twice. Speechless. Amazing episode.
Had my car for 7 year, still love getting behind the wheel every time. I was told to drive it like i stole it...yes sir!
Thats how i ride my bikes
I was thinking the same thing, it’s a little different for car enthusiasts that finally get the sports car/ hot Rod they desired.
A yeah ago I bought a 18 year old 5 series for 10K and it's the happiest I've been with a car in a long time
Like you stole it? What does that even mean? You will probably kill yourself and or someone else.
Always one of my favorite guests. The convo is always so fluid and the info always engaging! Thanks Chris, your pod is elite for real!
I have been using the internet since 1993 and I am proud to say that I have never had a Twitter account. Love your work
As I become more knowledgeable and aware/self aware, it makes me realise just how many people lack self awareness. They could be the loveliest of folk but nonetheless, clueless about their own behaviour. I also like to reflect on my own past and feel thankful I’m able to self analyse. I’m intrigued where I will be in 10 years, as there’s still so much more to discover☺️
Also nice to see Gurwinder in HD now haha.
“One must picture Sisyphus happy” is how I practice this gratitude. This is my favorite “mantra”
Gurwinder is one of my Twitter favourities too. Great to see him in a podcast.
Gurwinder is a fantastic writer and a legend.
Would love if all these aphorisms and ideas (and from the George Mack episode) we’re all published in a book or .pdf! Thanks for the epic episode! 🇦🇺
Always a pleasure and i feel like i can breathe better whenever Chris and Gurwinder having a conversation, you put what i feel about twitter, tweeting, social media into words so precisely and eloquently.
🎉😊❤ Thank you so much, Chris for your fascinating podcasts.
Yesterday I recommended your podcasts to two beautiful hair sylists because I think you are a fine communicator from the perspective of your generation.
🎉😊❤ Fun, fantastic and full of intelligent and compassionate curiosity.
The conversations you both have are amongst my favourite episodes.
Brilliant! You’ve completely smashed the culture war’s narrative! Re: 25-40mins in. Thank you! Saving and keeping for reference. Beautifully articulated.
Bhogal is right on: Any productive debate should START with a definition of terms. If you don't agree on implicit definitions, no point. Lots of time has been wasted on talking past each other. And the dishonest thrive on fuzziness of emotionally-laden terms that they can't or refuse to define.
So many great quotes in this episode. And I loved the role out of the Sam episode. I was the person excited having the two of you talking. Thanks for the hard work.
Love gurwinders stuff as always, whilst i agree that the vast majority of tweets are written with a lack of thought, and this comment is an example of an idea that has just popped into my head lol. But I think in some scenarios, the quick emotional tweets of a person could potentially reveal a greater insight into their true feelings on a topic, as it is often done spur of the moment, so as you say, they have thought less about it. In that sense it becomes less calculated, and where views/opinions/image can be manipulated online or portrayed however you wish with writing etc, I think it could also provide a more honest (correct or not) insight into that person in many cases so can be deemed somewhat equally important, just in a different manner. Not necessarily in the terms of rational truth on a topic, but truth with regards to that persons emotional state or feelings towards a topic it would likely be more truthful.
What a brilliant and insightful conversation! I enjoyed listening to it every moment throughout!!
I've never heard of Mr. Bhogal until today, but I like him. I came to a similar conclusion about the word "deserve" some time ago--most things people think they "deserve" are a product of an advanced society with huge amounts of infrastructure that requires massive amounts of time, energy, and money to maintain. It's easy to think water comes from the faucet when one cannot see the miles of pipes that brought it there.
I think our one point of disagreement would be on meat. I have many concerns about lab-grown meat that I don't think are too conspiratorial:
How much time, energy, money, and resources are required to create the nutrient bath that the meat grows in? Is this process sustainable?
Where do we get the nutrients necessary to grow lab-grown meat?
How close is the nutrient quality of lab-grown meat to that of an animal that comes from our highest quality farms (quality in this instance meaning happiest animals)?
How complex is it to grow lab-grown meat? Is it something that poor people could do in their backyard, like raising chickens or quails?
I am generally skeptical of any process that removes production even further beyond the reach of ordinary people. It's a bias, for sure, but it seems that many critical details get hidden behind the complexity which make something like lab-grown meat (or factory farming) easier to swallow.
For instance, most of modern agriculture utilizes tillage to grow annual crops like wheat and corn. Tillage kills many animals and disrupts large ecosystems by its nature. Pesticides may be even worse. So how much do we factor in the suffering and death of those animals? How many groundhogs killed by tilling for wheat equate to a cow's suffering or a pig's suffering, presuming the nutrition that would have been supplied by the cow or pig is supplied by wheat?
Don't get me wrong, I abhor factory farming. However, I don't know if it is possible to completely eliminate suffering from our food supply when the final accounting is done. Better to get at the devil in the details, like Temple Grandin, whenever possible. At least with a pig raised by Joel Salatin, I can rest assured knowing that the pig had a pretty good life in which it could express its "pigness".
I love how anything right of milktoast centrist is immediately "FaR rIgHt" granted the gentleman that is the guest is from the U.K. so it makes sense.
Amazing episode. I will listen to It again in the future, as I have done with the previous episodes. I also leave wanting to learn more about the world. Cheers from Spain ❤
One potential escape from the happiness treadmill is the idea of detachment, merely observing your feelings, emotions and desires but letting them have no impact on your rather existential state, thus finding contentment inside yourself rather than making it dependent on your successes. Buddhism is to a significant extent focused on this idea (or similar, at least), and you can see various similar notions in stoicism, Christianity and I'm sure many other religions, philosophies and whatnot else.
Gurwinder is my fave guest on this, my fave pod!❤
Man, you got me rolling in the supermarket when you said he reminded you of a medieval peasant😂😂😂
luck is where oportunity meets preperation. i like this one
Had me in the first 90%, not going to lie. In all seriousness I loved all the logical fallacies, but I will not eat ze bugs.
I may be inordinately fond of timestamps on videos like this. It's the way my brain works. Thanks for that.
More great content, by the way. Keep after it, Chris and Gurwinder. 👍
Chris Williamson going to Anjunadeep open air! My man I love you even more now
Oh, Gurwinder, everyone's favourite guest. Chris, you should give him a badge or something for the 5th? appearance. Cheers from Spain to all modern wisers. I love you all.
Same here! We can't get enough of him! I don't use Twitter or Substack so this is the only place I can listen to him! Fav guest as well! Aquí Costa Rica en la casa! jaja
@@kurtdyer saludos desde España.
Really digging the repeat appearances by South Asian Michael Cera
I would always argue the chances of a happier life was much easier to obtain in past centuries, and would disagree it has any correlation with a yearning of childhood!
Society today has taken us far away from a life we're hardwired to live, and the wanting of a life back then is more related to how unachievable a more simple and rewarding life has become today
Don't worry Gurwinder, I'll eat more meat to balance it out. Having been raised around cattle and participated in dispatching an animal and butchering it, I'm not bothered. But I'm far more grateful than most people for the animals life and death. I will not eat the lab grown meat. Point of fact, we need more cattle farming. They are key to Regenerative Farming. Chris needs Alan Savory on to discuss.
here's an idea for RUclips. One should be able to share my accounts recommendations.
A good listen until the last part
Ah the Pineapple story/history; was that from Bill Bryson's Home book? I've definitely read about it somewhere. Great conversation- so enjoying this. Thank you
This the first time i have heard you. I enjoyed it.
Great exchange! Though I believe I disagree with CW's seeming straw-man version of the distress of an existential crisis (and there's a lot to say about trauma, also), I found this to be a very stimulating and very important conversation for thinking about our time and place!
The last point you discussed is explained by Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs
Good to be realistically unpredictable. It boosts the Adventure and allows us all to survive better due to practical quantum criss-crossing. But we only have a roughly 5 metre sphere of “Reality” around our centre points. So, tread with care in the unknown-unknown zones!
12:10 that's the thing of it, when you don't like the valid point being made and can't argue against it, just try to claim the words being used don't mean that point being presented as if that somehow makes the point being presented not themselves point being presented. A total breakdown in comprehending how words serve as a tool to communicate ideas, but that words don't define what idea is being communicated. It's the intended idea the speaker is wanting to communicate that defines the idea being communicated, not the words being used nor the listener's preferred definitions of those words.
My pet hate in an online argument is when people don't follow their own standards. They'll make fallacies such as strawman, ad hominem, argument from authority etc... but if you mimic their style they'll dismiss everything you've said as strawman, ad hominem, argument from authority. If you're going to put it on the table you can't object when other people use it.
Some of these people are decent trolls. Others aren't self aware enough and frankly not too bright.
Invite Judea Pearl while he's still alive. One of the greatest minds of our day.
1:49:51 Chris makes a funny lil noise I thoroughly enjoyed , great episode as always 🙌
Insightful and funny. My favorite combination ♥
So good! Thank you both Chris and Gurwinder! 😘
Be quasi-effective. Be the failed perfectionist. We can’t even define perfection, impossibility, etc.
Happiness is more like a resource to my mind, I conceptualize it like the heart containers in legend of Zelda. Each of those goals along the way you are chasing to make you happy add to your maximum number of hearts, but day to day life will require hits and healing to stave off depression. For example; if one has achieved the goal of having a partner and children, they can likely hold up better in the face of misfortune. Happiness is a horizon, but you get level ups along the way if you manage to reach the goals you set in some satisfactory way.
Maybe the 48 hour rule should be imposed in reverse. Any Twitter post is pending for 48 hours, and you have a chance to reverse your decision before it goes public.
I found the video but you should really pin the link to full vid in the comments would help alot!👍
Ground Truth is a good news
Good points!
but the guest omits a lot of variables among nations. I agree with the external locus of control influences across the world which is now further complicated by social media’s globalising phenomenon. For example, War caused social hardships resulted in poverty, displacement, and ongoing corrupt leadership in Somalia which is my homeland has resulted in suffering and further complicates the famine we have seen in the last 30 years. There seems to be be more draughts happening. Prior to the civil war, Somalia enjoyed amazing natural resources, they were able to overcome famines without needing foreign aid I. E 1974 famine. My point, modernity and agriculture may have helped the industrialised societies of the west which lack natural resources but modernity and its ideas (AKA colonial ideology) facilitated by self serving local leaders is linked to have caused more hardships in that part of the world. Just another perspective!
I disagree with Gurwinder on how lab meat is the future. I think we need to look at smaller scale ethical farming, investment in crop cycling and have a hybrid diet.
Personally I use protein powders to lower my meat intake recently as I’m self aware that I’m contributing to suffering however it’s hard to live in this world without doing so. Slave labour tech and clothing etc.
It’s down to each of us to make small choices like this now to stop global interests mandating what you can do later on
Presentism as a concept is cool however. I like I have a word for what I’ve been thinking about on judgements on people such as Churchill vs Marx
Sorry, I am not ok with lab meat. My family eats meat pretty much daily, and the overwhelming portion of that is 1/2 cow and 1/2 pig each year purchased straight from the farm where the cow was born and lived its entire life on grass. We use to raise our own hogs and back then could get pepperoni made, which is our main misery food product now. I am well aware of what's wrong with our system, but I don't think frankifood is the solution.
I found it really interesting, when Chris spoke about how he treis to manufacture anticipation and excitement. Because I completely ignore them. I find the clips and shorts and everything else mostly distracting annoying. I just want the real stuff!
Happiness shouldn't be the goal. Peace should.
I would say contentment is the goal. Would you equate that with peace?
28:30 that picture was from his early college years nearly 20 years ago. He’s been bodybuilding since
From Adele, “just because I said it, doesn’t mean I meant it”
Dr Jordan Peterson considers EVERYTHING he says, let alone types.
For you to categorise this incredible human being simply as a ‘boomer’, is of a great disservice to your eminent podcasts. I am a great admirer of your content and delivery; the first time you’ve disappointed.
well put. I bristle when the dillweed genXers chide 'boomers', like we have nothing to impart, and they have nothing to learn...
I see what you did there dropping "one of the guys from Sound of Freedom".
The other thing about identifying with your goals, perhaps as "anti-racist", then how much of what you're doing is self-validation?
...or wokesim.
The head-mounted carrot scenario...
Is that a dopamine cycle.
Dopamine is chasing, not necessarily winning?
Great episode....but....watch movies before you comment on them! Rey does not match your preconceived notions, as there are a lot of struggles in the last 3 movies. Loved the insight and interaction! Keep up the great work!
I always find it weird how people think it's wrong that humans eat meat but they have no problem with other animals eating meat. Humans evolved like many other animals with meat as part of their diet. I'm against factory farming but I'm not against ethically raised meat. The animals we eat dont take it personally, it's a part of the circle of life and if we weren't there to eat a particular animal another meat eater eventually would. We're a part of the animal kingdom and I think people are starting to forget that as they place themselves further and further away from real nature. I've lived in a rural area most of my life and I hike in woodlands that are inhabited by mountain lions and if one day I'm killed by a lion I wont take it personally. It's the circle of life, I dont think I'd win but I'd try my best to give the lion one hell of a fight because that's in my nature to do so but I fully accept and understand that it's in the lions nature to eat meat. It's in our nature to eat some meat. Animals in nature do not have pretty deaths, they either starve and are then eaten or they are eaten to death. I can guarantee most wild animals suffer far worse deaths than ethically raised and slaughtered farm animals.
Meditation might be the original atelic activity. The old people sat purely for the sake of sitting, and would be quite puzzled by our idea of mindfulness or meditating on something.
13:37 Layne's Law, I think. It would have been nice to have it written out.
The good stuff is on RUclips only 🤓
1:02 obviously if you don’t have “”blah blah .., and obviously you need this and you NEED that to survive, and you also NEED to find fulfillment in the things that you DO have, so it’s contradicting to say you need one thing to survive () when you need a lot of things to survive and not having them is just as important to be thankful for having what you do have to survive, so there are more factors then just having to find people to live with, since there’s always going to be one thing in exchange for another, and if you have everything in your life your still missing the other thing (s) that is a trade off, and if you have the balance just right you have to maintain which is a trade of as well, and as soon as you are self fulfilled you have other to attain to, so there’s always room for additional things to Need to survive.
This was a good one
"they think they know about history" from the guys who said world war 2 was a battle of good vs evil ....
So like, what would be the use-case to have a different keyboard layout so that we can type faster? Yeah, we could do it, we could have an alphabetic keyboard or whatever, but I think we stick to QWERTY because while we could type faster theoretically, there just isn't a need for it. Or the potential gains are just not worth the trouble.
When he endorsed eating lab made "meat" it was clear he was not a serious person about eating healthy and should be disregarded.
Yep, a weak ending to an otherwise interesting discussion.
70% of what he said today was utter nonsense..a total waste of time to listen to this moronic clown
"Oh, To Know The Sky"
I shall never comprehend,
that of human minds.
For,
they look up,
and believe they know the sky.
They walk around,
and believe they know the ground.
To exist such as this,
is to simply exist absent sense.
To exist absent,
the ability to be,
sound.
Be there,
no profound statement able to be emitted,
from such a diaphragm.
For,
within the simplicity of mindless entities,
such is simply,
not allowed.
When one thinks deeply.
When one attempts to comprehend complexity.
One finds,
the absence of knowing.
For,
in truth,
to know,
would be to exist tethered to stagnation.
To the simplicity of,
actuality.
For,
within actuality,
one finds,
that which shall forever be present.
That which,
in truth,
shall exist absent change.
For,
all mammals seek the ability to breathe.
For,
all seek to be consuming beings.
To be,
that which survives.
The simplicity of seeking,
genetic immortality.
Such,
shall never cease.
Even after extinction,
new entities shall begin existing.
Shall feast upon,
that which the human leaves.
That which,
becomes earth,
no longer inhabited by homosapiens.
For,
within such,
within the simplicity of existence,
all shall go in and out,
in a instance.
Shall cease,
constantly.
Shall be formed,
constantly.
Shall be nothing,
then,
everything...
In regards to saying if men now aren't successful with women they wouldn't have been several hundred years ago. On a personal note I was quite successful with women perhaps 4 or 5 years ago and have gotten less and less until now I have not been able to get a date with someone I find desirable for almost 2 years. This is despite the fact that I'm now significantly more successful and put together than those years ago. So I'd argue on a personal level at least things have changed significantly in just our lifetime even.
“We were locked in the kitchen I took to religion and wondered how long she would stay. I needed so much to have nothing to touch, I’ve always been greedy that way”
I used to believe the state of mind for happiness shit. And then I got cancer which is gunna take bits of me away piece by piece and kill me early. I still actively try to be grateful for what I have but I’d 100% be happier without the cancer that’s a non question.
Mate!!! Come to Australia and taste a home grown tomato from traditional seeds. Perfecto!!
If you think lab grown meat is abetter alternative then you really need to CHNAGE THE WAY YOU THINK!
I'm curious what you both think about how humans will adapt when catastrophic ecological overshoot finally catches up with the wealthy people in the world. "Hedonic adaptation" - will it work in reverse as we get used to a much simplified life (technologically)? Also hope you can discuss the idea of "progress" -- I look at it as primarily a bad thing because of the destructive impacts to the natural world (which will eventually cause collapse for humanity) -- but this is an idea that everyone assumes is only a good thing. Thx, great conversation.
Given Chris has had Bjorn Lomborg on, I highly doubt he is concerned by ecological catastrophe.
@@renaissancestatesman Ah, thanks for letting me know. Too bad!
Do ALL humans, of average IQ, even have the sentience to choose not to eat factory-farmed meat? I am vegetarian except for cold blooded creatures, mostly aquatic and all lower phyla. But I cannot manage to believe even half of humanity even has the wherewithall, even with education, to make that ethical choice. To me, this just means the rest of us are under special privilege and maybe pressure to make ethical sweeps by our individual choices and, well, what you said here is a great take. OK, sorry for multiposting, but amazing discussion, guys. I love the channel. Waited for these cultural moments a Millennial lifetime.
The idea is a fair one, that it's the fact people have had their locus of control externalised, and so blame the modern age. I'd posit that it's the opposite, that they yearn for an age when they had to have a locus of control - The decendents that made it here, would have had this locus - and the people in the present have had it removed, and its at odds with what was required for survival up to this point. My arguement isn't any better than his, it's just a different way to think of it. I also don't think you can get around the fact that life was simpler - Not without tragedy, misery or misfortune - But certainly in the UK that had to have been the case - Why else are the so many different accents? You stayed where you were from, in one area, surrounded by people you'd know for your entire life. In all likelihood, farming!
Like, how do you make anything today? Literally everything has 100 different components or refinement done on it - Just me typing this comment into RUclips has thousands of people working away to get it to happen. But the past wasn't simplier? How do you make a pencil on your own? Mental thoughts to just say something like that so blithly.
You both are cracking me up 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I believe in cause and effect. Karma however makes no sense at all.
Damn, I hadn't heard someone with the same opinion as me when it comes to DID, "real" or not, they do it to deal with their life, as crap or as good as it is
Btw about deserving in nature, let me enlighten you: you poke a bear (cause), you deserve to get mauled by the bear (effect), regardless of your intention or inherent factors of the action of poking
so, "deserving" is in direct relation to what you do but it doesn't mean the outcome will be favourable to you, given the various examples of evil getting away with evil and good not being rewarded with an equal outcome, another example: "you deserve better", but you don't have it, and maybe you never will, but you can (only) try and increase your chances of getting it
He looks like an Indian Michael Cera.
I thought EXACTLY the same thing! He probably gets that once a day.
One more thing. When we remove God from our lives, it is impossible to live a fulfilling and satisfying life. To be content we must give of ourselves. And being taken to our real home with God when we leave this life we will no longer be people who cry- me, me, me.
I've increased my meat intake to spite the WEF.
Yes, Batman is a dark, humanistic being, a superhuman but not as perfect as Superman.
32:24 I think it’s more an indication that they want to be around their tribe and only their tribe instead of being around outsiders who deteriorate their homeland and take resources from them and make it harder to live in security because they’re being overrun. But of course we can’t talk about this, and instead dance around it in ways to diminish those peoples real issues lmao. Beyond subversive and disgusting behavior tbh. But what can one expect from intellectuals who are censored by threat of violent force lmao. Of course they won’t talk about the damage they’re doing to people and will try and make themselves feel good about it by denigrating those peoples intelligence or character. Of course that only shows their character is denigrated and unintelligent in comparison lmao.