Shaper Origin managed to upset me for the first time!!!
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- Опубликовано: 11 ноя 2022
- This is just a rant video, because Shaper Origin managed to upset me by trying to charge money for the auto-pass extension. How do you feel about this? Leave your thoughts in the comments.
Check out more positive videos about the Shaper Origin: • Shaper Origin How To, ...
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I couldn’t agree more man. I was blown away they are charging us for this feature. What a cheap, selfish way to go. Should be a free update. I felt the same way. Glad I’m not the only way.
Oh you are not alone by far. Most people that comment on this video are in our club. A real bummer that they went that way...
I agree with you. The $200 price tag for Autopass is way too much. Maybe $25-50 would be okay for convenience purposes but that is about my limit. Shaper studio is also ridiculously overpriced for such a rudimentary piece of software. I'll try it for a year since they sent me a 50% off discount code but will not likely renew. Steve
Yep, I think I would have paid up to 50 USD, with grinding teeth, but I might have done it. But 200? That's like half a workstation!
Absolutely agree! It was exactly how I felt the moment I saw it. Great feature but not overly important and seems like it should just be a part of the Jenner update. Custom anchors is a great feature but they didn’t charge as an upgrade when Inverness was released. Will keep my $200 on this one. Thank you.
Hi Rick! Welcome to the club! It seems that the vast majority feels that way. I would be so curious to see their sales numbers and understanding what % of the user base paid…
If AutoPass was able to do 3D/relief milling, I'd probably pay for it. Although this is the most basic function of three-axis CNC...
Thanks for the video that made me decide if it was necessary to buy SO.
Yeah, if it could do 3D milling, I would totally pay 200 bucks for that, that would be an extension of what I can do nowadays. Most welcome. If this video helped you to decide not to buy the SO, I am glad you found out that way and not after buying it.
I totally agree with you. I returned my Shaper. I was so put off by them. I loved it but couldn’t see keeping it after my return timeframe. I fear Shaper will just decide to start charging for more things like Hub.
I am sorry to hear that, but I totally understand your frustration and fear. Hopefully you are wrong 🙏🏼
I totally agree. I bought my shaper about 5 months ago, and granted it's amazing. But I'm fed up being nickeled and dimed to the point I'm thinking of selling it. I also have a cnc so I'm not out much if anything. Shaper is ruining themselves sadly. Are you listening Shaper?!
Hi Gary. I am sorry you feel that way, but I understand your feelings. Overall I still love my SO and won't sell it, I will just be much more conscious about my purchase decisions with Shaper, given their policy seems to be shifting...
The restaurant that you go to maybe once or twice a year knows you so well that's interesting they must have amazingly good memories and no turnover
Indeed, they have great memory and zero turnover. But to be fair, they have only 10 tables and the person who remembers is one of the owners of the restaurant, haha...
I completely agree with you. As a professional woodworker, my question is not do I have the money to pay for it, but i feel a bit scammed by this way of doing/selling things. At the very beginning, when I bought the SO, I thought: this Autopass function is missing, and that's bad because I was used to program software and it's not difficult to implement this function. And when they did the presentation, I thought, yes, finally they correct this missing function! But 200$? No way.
You are 100% correct. A basic functionality that was missing at best. How can this be worth that much... sigh.
I am upset as well!
My Shaper Origin is _by_ _far_ the most expensive tool in my private(!) workshop, and I spent years saving up the money for it. Now they want to milk the cow by randomly selecting features that are not part of their updates-for-free tradition, but make me pay again. And again.
Up to that point, I was a huge fan of Shaper, the innovative startup that developed the Origin, something very innovative, well thought-out and very special. Now they are turning into just another commercial entity trying to make the most buck for the bang, like BMW trying to charge you on a monthly basis for the seat heater they built in from day one. I dislike.
Milking the cow is exactly how it feels! I even get the spirit of charging for significant upgrades, significant expansions, but this one feels clearly like milking! BMW charges for the seat heater? Not really, right? Just a funny analogy (please say yes!)?
@@Woodensoul Seat Heater on your shiny new BMW comes at 17 EUR/month.
I am speechless... the seat heater is 100x worse than charging for Auto-Pass. Imagine Shaper would be charging for every z-touch you do... I hope they aren't listening, haha
Tesla now charge a subscription to get live traffic on the sat nav. Something like £25pm. A feature that we all have on our phones with Google maps or Waze. Recurring revenue is invaluable for a business and increases its valuation massively, however there are now a load of companies introducing a subscription model but without having thought through properly the value equation.
I have two Teslas, Andy, and there is no such subscription cost. There is a cost if you want internet connectivity of about 10 USD / month, but you can go without that and teether your phone if you want. But in case they want to start charging 25 bucks for live traffic, I will indeed not pay that and use my phone. Sometimes it feels that with all these recurring revenue models, business forget that families have budgets, one can't simply have 30 monthly subscriptions without a toll on the budget...
You expressed this well!
It is a feature that should’ve been done long ago and doesn’t add to what the SO can do. It’s like fixing a glitch that had a workaround.
Like you - I have had no problem giving them my money because it’s a tool and technology that I both like and make use of.
I’m not rich but I’ll probably find myself paying it at some point (like when I accidentally cut a piece at the wrong depth - which may be their argument for adding capability and is my argument for it being a glitch).
Now that you say it, Eric, you are right. This is kind of a table stakes feature that could have been expected from day one. I do understand why they prioritized other things, but paying for something that basic CNC routers have built in seems wrong...
This is an excellent analogy and nicely sums up my feelings. Starting with a Shaper Origin I have since bought the Workbench and three big ticket Festool items. They are very expensive but I have swallowed the cost as I felt I was getting quality. I don't think Autopass is quality - certainly not at that price and charging for basic functionality has left a *very* sour taste. I feel that my good will (I love the Origin) has been abused and misplaced.
Your words sum up really well the reason why I made this video, Nils...
Well said, I totally agree. I was going to buy it but was shocked by the price.
Yeah, it's kind of a funny moment, when you stare at the price tag and start questioning yourself if you misunderstood what you get for that money.
Thank you. You have presented the concern perfectly. If only shaper would listen to it's subscribers.
Thanks - yeah, many of us had that hope, but unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case at all ):
I agree with you man.
That should be a sign of what’s coming 🤦♂️.
Thank you for speaking for the rest of us.
Most welcome man. I truly hope it is not a sign for what is coming, but I do also have concerns.
Absolutely spot on here! The message from Shaper is clear, deal with the slight headache of an inconvenient system or pay more money. The hardware is entirely capable of doing it, but they hold the functionality ransom. Didn't they learn from the BMW heated seats debacle?
Holding the functionality ransom is a great way of phrasing it, Jeffrey. I only learned about the BMW heated seats through a comment in this video, and I was flabbergasted! How on earth did BMW think this is a great idea?
Agree! This feature should be an incentive to earn new customers and to keep the current customer impressed and spreading hype. They didn't quite lose me as a customer, but they lost my trust and my loyalty. If another company does something similar, goodbye Shaper. Before, I would have supported the company, I thought was for us, without batting an eye at competition.
Yeah man! This episode is the main reason I started looking into CNC systems… clearly not the kind of behavior they should entice…
Spot-on! I didn’t know how much it was until I went to get it. I was in shock! It’s a plug-in that is not a necessity or a new way to get a different output/result. I don’t care about the few minutes I would save to get the same result. The only real difference it will make is perhaps lengthen the life of a bit but not by much
Yeah man, so frustrating. A large number of SO owners seem to feel that way, it’s a bummer that they chose this path…
Totally agree Javier, Shaper is not a cheap tool and then still pay extra for such a small convenience update. No, not gonna do that!
Apparently we are not alone, Chris. Bummer that Shaper did misread their customers that badly...
I completely agree!! This is not a good path that is being taken there.
I agree with your comparison and I do hope there is a trial period to see if it's worth the money. Sadly I bought Shaper Studio as an upgrade to Labs and I'm disappointed that a few features that are on SO aren't in Studio. Basic Text would be nice to have that font available and the pen tool. I hope they provide a deal to current SO owners at least
Hi Mike. A trial period for Auto-Pass? I don’t think that’s in the works, at least I didn’t reas anything about it…
They don’t understand good will.
Good Rant!!
Thanks :D
Totally agree with your comments regarding AutoPass. I think Shaper have misread their customer base with the AutoPass ‘extension’ especially with the price they have set. Over £200? Really? At say £25 or even £50 I would probably have purchased just to support Shaper. To add insult to injury they chose an expensive subscription-based pricing model for Studio.
Yeah Paul, up to 50 bucks might have worked for me. It does seem to me like they are misreading their customers, or they aren't giving a sh... either way, thanks for sharing
I completely agree. I also have bought pretty much everything they’ve put out; hardware, software, and accessories. My analogy is it’s like they sold me a car and want to charge me to use the high beams.
Yeah Sean, right? With all that money we have spent, we should not be paying to use the high beams...
I am a bit scared right now. I just bought SO and spent a lot of money on it - so I am now kind of committed to it. I am afraid that if they continue this policy it becomes very expensive to keep SO updated. Keep in mind that with the price of SO I could have bought a high quality table saw that I am still currently missing. So, I am confused too.
Hi Pekka. I understand your concerns, but have in mind that you can always keep your SO at the current state and work with it in the same way you do now, so you are under control. But I understand the general feeling - I share it.
Totally agree. Their "big reveal" live stream was totally cringe-worthy - and 2 days after it aired, they had to pull it from YT due to the "interesting" discussions in the comment section. Seriously, what were they thinking???
Luckily I didn't watch it - and I had no idea they had to pull it. But I am absolutely not surprised. I am more surprised that they didn't reconsider their go-to-market strategy after that immediate backlash.
@@Woodensoul AFAIK, Festool is still the mother company behind Shaper and I am sure they want to see a return for their investment. Having worked in marketing-driven tech development for almost 20 years, I can imagine very well the pressure they are under: not only will they have to meet financial goals - but also strategic ones. One of the typical goals these days is to identify way to generate returns WITHOUT shipping a physical product. The auto-pass "upgrade" feels a 100% like such a thing.
@@f.d.6667 Yeah, I just wish they would have picked a return without shipping a physical product that is actually WORTH it's money. I am all for added value, and have no problem paying for it. This does feel like paying a lot for little value...
I agree with you 100%! This is the first major anti-customer decision SO has made. I was really happy with their prior policy of continuing software upgrades. This policy allowed them to get their product out before the software was developed. They seemed to be a customer orientated company. Now they are either: 1) a typical software company who screws their customers after selling a still underdeveloped product OR 2) management didn’t realize what kind of relationship they’ve developed with their customers and made a major policy mistake. This is the typical problem when MBA’s take over from engineers (think Boeing 737 max fiasco). Time will tell which type of company they really are.
Agree with all you said, Henele. Up until today I have also only had good experiences with Shaper, both when I needed support as well as from their general customer service. This is the first time they went rogue, and I hope they show humility and change it before its too late...
Thoroughly agree with your rant.
The Origin is an expensive product to start with and £210 (In UK) for, as you say, a convenience feature is basically insulting.
I drive a Tesla and probably get an upgrade once every months or so. Not only are these upgrades free but some add completely new features like: remote access to cameras via app, blind spot display on main screen when indicating ect. ect.
Come on Shaper: don’t betray your loyal customer base.
Yeah, Antony, absolutely agree. I also have a Tesla, and it would be bananas to have to pay for new features and upgrades. And the few things that are paid are big things such as FSD or performance, which can’t be compared to auto-pass. A real bummer…
I agree that automatic Z-Axis control (Autopass) should be included in any CNC. Just imagine if you bought a CNC and had to change Z height manually for each Z height that you needed. Shaper calls the Origin a CNC.
The analogy doesn't apply though - In the analogy - the restaurant took reservations for free before they started charging for it. This Autopass feature didn't exist before. It would be that you couldn't make a reservation before, but now they take reservations for $50,
Yeah, I agree with your opinion about the analogy. Your way it would have been stronger. Not sure it changes the case though, because charing for a reservation sucks anyway :D
We call that nickel and dimming things where I am from. Thanks for this video. It convinced me to not buy a very expensive tool in the first place.
Big picture: it's a great tool. I wouldn't not buy Origin because of this. Just go in with your "eyes open" about the potential cost of future updates (there will still be free ones coming but clearly they're looking to generate more revenue).
Time will tell if they've learned anything from this poorly conceived attempt.
I understand it costs money to develop AutoPass (given how much developers earn in CA these days) but - still - it's just a step too far to charge for fixing a pain point (an expensive tool like Origin really shouldn't force me to keep track and set-up the depth of each pass).
Even with AutoPass... as a minimum - now they have depth encoding - Shaper should a simple button to increase the depth by a "preset" amount (defaulting to, say, the bit diameter) - that would alleviate most of the pain of manually tracking and setting this stuff. It's such a simple fix.
I'll be interesting to see what happens.
Hey Andrew. I am sorry if I discouraged you to buy a Shaper Origin. I think it got clear in the video, that I do LOVE this tool, and this is the first time that Shaper Tools did something like that. They are a relatively young company, and they are learning. I hope they learn from that mistake and improve their business model in the future. Even without Auto-Pass, the SO is great, so keep your mind and eyes open.
Agree with everything you said, Adrian. I hope they listen and learn from this mistake.
Preach on my brother! I couldn't have said it better as they've gotten bigger and partnered with a bigger company now they expect us to pay for the little things that should come with software upgrades. I wish more people would speak up and speak out because the sessions they give them brag about the additions should be normal upgrade. I have a Brava light oven each time they have an improvment or an upgrade it comes as an upgrade at no addional charge. Like you noted if it is something that truely adds value, then I am okay with paying but the latest offering is just not that at all! I have purchase almost every new add-on, I am glade to pay for those add-on’s but this is just digging deep for no real value! James
We are in the same boat, James. I don't mind giving them my money, but this one isn't worth it, and deep down, they know it, but they don't seem willing to admit it...
I totaly agree! I had the same feeling and I allso get a feeling that this is only the start of !
Let's hope not, Steinar, let's hope not!
I completely agree with you, and, when I posted about it on their forum my post was immediately deleted.
I now have 3 issues with the company:
1) Charging for incremental features like autopass. Will every new feature now cost $200? Something like Helix, could also be $200 following this precedent. I could see if we get the ability for full 3D carving with Z-axis control. This would be something I would buy, but not something incremental. It will now just piss me off every time I adjust my depth setting manually.
2) The shapeShifter function which was in labs is now behind a $99 annual paywall in Studio. Something I had when I purchased the tool is now gone.
3) When I posted about these on their forum my post was removed immediately. Apparently, they did not want my feedback, or did not want it to be visible.
Like you, for the first time, I am not proud of my tool. Thank you for taking the time to post. I'm with you 100%.
EDIT: #3 above has been resolved. It was just my first post on their forum.
Thanks for your response. I am glad that the forum deletion part was resolved, because that would have been extremely scary. Others said that they turned off the comment section on the introduction stream video, because the feedback was so negative, so I can see why they would want to do some brand damage control. Yet deleting forum posts would be too much, so I am glad that is not the case. Regarding the other points, I am with you, and many feel like we do, but it seems nothing is going to change on the business behavior, so we might need to stick around and voice our protest by not opening our wallets, and speaking out instead.
@@Woodensoul I'm with you... I read the CEO response, and it was, in a word, smug. I've heard all kinds of crazy defenses to this including "Software in San Francisco is Expensive", and "dimensional walnut is expensive", so I should be willing to pay this. We need to speak with our wallets. If only 5% to 10% of the shaper owners buy this they will need to reconsider.
@@pacificdune Word! That is the only way to course correct this I fear...
Ich bin da auch ganz deiner Meinung. Schöner Vergleich. Die Laura Kampf sieht das ganz anders. Ich hab mir den Livestream angeschaut als die V2 präsentiert wurde. Da zeigten sie auch autopass. Sie fand das total korrekt weil es ja soviel Zeit sparen würde wenn man es kommerziell nutzen würde. Ich nutze sie nur privat und da sind 200 Eier echt ne Menge Holz 😞
Na ja, ob die Laura Kampf jetzt wirklich neutral ist, mag ich mal nicht kommentieren. Wieviel Zeit spart man denn damit? Das müsste ich mal empirisch überprüfen und es hochrechnen. Wieviel cuts musst du machen, damit sich das rein zeitlich gelohnt hat? Aber eben, wenn man es nicht kommerziell nutzt, ist diese Rechnung eh für die Tonne...
My view was simple. They need revenue as the tool sales alone may not support them. So my view was have a two tier system where a hobbyist pays a fair price for the fully functional add ins and those commercial users pay more as they can justify it in production efficiency. I’m retired and have started to feel I’m no longer Shapers target going forward as I’m cash poor !
That is pretty much how it seems, Colin, and I can understand why they want multiple revenue streams, also from their existing user base, but I would have hoped they deliver more value for the money, or ask for less money if the value is limited... sorry to hear you are cash poor, and totally understand that in this case, priorities must be different.
I agree…. Also the only thing I wanted was a better more powerful spindle ….
I would have loved that too! That allows for a 1/2 bit size! Dream on...
Agreed. I know software and product development costs money but this is a very basic upgrade, (also standard with a lot of other cnc software) the pricetag is ridiculous. Since shaper is more for hobby-use i'm thinking they might scare away a lot of their loyal customers (who already spend a whole lot of money on the machine) simply can't afford or justify such expense.
Yeah, exactly, that is a good point I should have mentioned in the video. This is basic functionality that most standard CNC systems have and that can be expected. Charging for it makes no sense. I do think there are a lot of professional SO users, but I am still trying to sense if they are all fine with being milked that way, or if they feel similarly. Just because you use this tool to make money, doesn't mean you are fine with everything...
@@Woodensoul true, i am a 'professional' user (since i make a living as a woodworker), and even though i could buy this extension and consider it a "deductable expense" it still is too much money. Can i afford it? off course: a full tank of gasoline for my Van costs more, but it just does not feel right.
Yes! Sometimes the question is not if one can afford it or not, it's a question about what is ok and what not...
Agree 100% thank you for making this video.
Most welcome :D
Since i have had my SO I have NEVER wished it would auto-pass (plunge). I like to stop after one go around and inspect my progress. Also take a break after a couple of passes. Then on the last go around I make a very small cut. No to auto-pass for me and I fully agree with you. I mean big deal it will act like a real cnc with auto-pass.
Hey Ken. I must admit, that I did wish a couple of times that it wouldn't be necessary to manually adjust the depth, but I agree that very often a multi-pass approach is the better (depends a little on the type of cut). Another thing mentioned here was the question how Auto-Pass will work in combination with dust collection. One thing I often do during the breaks is to manually suck up the dust from all the cuts, because otherwise it gets stuck in there and makes the deeper cuts more difficult. I have no idea how this will work with Auto-Pass. And yes, agree, Auto-Pass is a standard feature for CNCs, so I don't get why they are making such a big deal out of it.
Absolutely agree with you!.
No doubt that the Shaper origin is a superb tool but the price for it was already quite expensive. I have also been quite surprised by the high-price of all side equipments proposed through the shaper hub (Bits in particular are really expansive). Here getting the AUTO-pass feature for fee is a clear no way for me!...
Thanks for putting this video together "Wooden Soul"
Yeah, it feels that with Shaper, every single part comes with a price tag. Know that you can save a lot of money when it comes to bits, if you switch to other brands. Here is a video about this: ruclips.net/video/mdMCg9tSESg/видео.html
I agree 1000%.
I always considered Shaper to be a decent company that valued their customers, but the Autopass release has shown that this not the case.
We all understand that every business has to have various income streams, and I don't begrudge a paid upgrade at a reasonable cost.
However, as you say, this is a convenience upgrade but priced at a level that was always going to alienate hobbyist and non income-based workshops. Doing this has created a 2 tier userbase, and (in my humble opinion) will loose Shaper the hobbyist end of the market.
Can I afford the cost of Autopass..? Yes.
Do I need it..? No.
Would I have purchased it at £50..? Probably. .. partly to enhance my Shaper experience (slightly !) but also partly to support the company.. as I did with Plate.
Just reading the comments and negativity on the Shaper Facebook groups, it's obviously been a complete PR disaster and I find it worrying for the future of the company that anyone in the organisation thought that this would be a good decision.
Hey Jeremy. Yeah, now we are talking! I was thinking, if they would have taken the cut depth feature and sold that instead of auto-pass, probably less people would have gotten upset. But the auto-pass one clearly aims at trying to milk the cow. And I agree, if the price would have been more moderate, I would have thought about it twice. It’s a bummer that they miscalculated the reaction that badly. A little research could have prevented that fiasco. Oh well man, let’s continue setting the cut depths bit by bit 😆
I agree 100%, mad me very upset with them.
We were not alone. I guess that is why they are offering free testing for 2 weeks...
I agree with you, i don't pay for autopass.
I am not alone 🙏🏼 Let’s brute force them into releasing it for free 😆
First off, you have presented the first “well-reasoned” and thoughtful dissent to the paid feature introduced by Shaper. I applaud you for that. I can certainly see your viewpoint. I view this from both the end-user and business perspective. For me, if this saves me from making an error that ruins an expensive piece that I’ve already invested a lot of time in, it’s worth it. I spend too much time and stress over executing multiple passes and making sure I didn’t miss a decimal or calculate something wrong, so I’m going to buy it. So, Shaper made a good business move knowing what feature would be most likely purchased by some portion of their user community. The price is steep, so I would have been happier at a lower price, but they got it right since I’m going to buy it. I also think about what some companies do, and applaud Shaper for NOT doing it. That is, creating this new cool feature, and making it dependent on purchasing the new model. I can’t tell you how many complete Gillette razor sets I bought as they moved from 3 to 4 to 5 blades in their disposable razor heads. None were backward compatible. Good job on your post!
Thank you for your thoughtful answer, Paul. I am glad that at least for you this paid expansion is worth it, and if it prevents you from ruining your workpieces, I agree its a good investment. I can't remember that I have ever ruined something because of the cut depth, so probably I have been lucky. The next time this happens to me, I will think of you. And I agree about being relieved that they didn't just release Jenner for the new Shaper Origin, others companies do that, and that would have been extremely upsetting. Let's hope this is not the beginning and that down the road they do that. Fingers crossed...
Hi Paul, I would agree with you except for the fact that this really does not seem like more than an incremental function. It automated something you do manually. I’m concerned that this is a slippery slope. If this costs $200 then will every other incremental feature also cost $200? I invested in a machine that I thought would improve over time, I was not expecting to pay hundreds of dollars for each minor improvement.
@@pacificdune I certainly understand. I think an issue that will continue to grow and evolve is this merger of software and tool. In the tool world, if you buy a tool and the next gen is cooler, you have to unload your current tool and purchase the new model if you like it more. (Kinda like cars!) In the software world, companies cover their maintenance and ROI for investment using either an annual maintenance fee, an upgrade fee, or a subscription model. Microsoft moved from the tool model, buy the new version when it comes out and loose your investment on the last version, to a maintenance model, and now they just use a monthly subscription. From a business standpoint, there is a tangible product (car/tool) and an intangible product (software license). The business models of each are readily accepted in each world, but in this case, merging the intangible into a traditionally tangible market is creating unrest. I’m sure it will evolve. Bottom line, for me, is that a company that staffs R&D to invent new functionality has to find a way to fund it or they will go out of business. That would create much more angst.
@@pengel200 This is certainly what is happening here, but I think ShaperTool's approach is overreaching and short sighted. They have now set the precedent that every small incremental feature will cost $200, which is inconsistent with the idea that was sold, a tool that improves over time.
In the software world we also have a spectrum of ways that companies approach this. A good example is Autodesk. You can get Fuzion 360 for no charge if you plan to use it as a hobbyist. This is likely because they have a solid installed base of professional customers, and they are trying to expand their usage.
A bad example is Adobe. To get Photoshop and Illustrator now is over $50 per month. If you are like me, and want to use it for the occasional woodworking project or photo touchup this presents a problem. There are ways to get this price down, but all of them are fairly inconvenient, and the end result is still something you gnash your teeth at to end up paying.
Shaper Labs was a good alternative, but that was removed, and the free version of studio removed their best feature, Shape Shifter, and put it behind a pay wall.
I bought my system last summer... Literally 6 months before the new version came out. I would liked to have known that a new tool was coming out for something this expensive, but I guess this is how it goes. I did use it to complete an important project that otherwise would not have turned out as well as it did, so this is OK.
Looking forward, I'm afraid the company has gone overboard with nickel and diming people for features. It could turn away new buyers, which is more important, and unfortunate. I don't mind paying for new stuff, but it should be reasonable, and for new features, not things that seem so incremental, and not $200.
Have a good one, and thank you for the discussion!
@@pacificdune Right back atcha…thanks for engaging in this conversation. You raise good points. Hopefully Shaper is listening. I would certainly have preferred a lower price on a first-time “pay-to-play” incremental improvement. Have a great day…and congrats on the project success!
It’s a basic feature. Especially useful to beginners who might try plunge full depth in one go! Buying a new Gen2 and not getting it out of the box is a joke.
Yeah, but even for Gen1 I see no reason that this basic feature should cost you that much. 50 bucks? Maybe (with closed eyes and a quite "bastards" between my gritting teeth...)
I've sent this video link to Shaper Support urging them to view it and reconsider their strategy
Haha... you are hilarious Jeremy. I am picturing them watching the video and thinking: "Who is that crazy dude? Why is he annoying us?"... but in all seriousness, I hope they are open minded and willing to learn from their mistakes...
Totally right… that’s just pure product care
Agree. It's a feature that they should have shipped with v1 in the first place.
Totally agree!
Lets' open the club of Auto-Pass-Deniers... :D
Totally agree - given the amount of cash we have paid them - it’s a joke to charge for this convenience - it should be FOC
Yeah, basic feature that pretty much every other CNC system has, and they just want a little more from us...
Yep I’m with you 100%.
Welcome to the club, Rusty!
One further comment - they have so many avenues for expanding their product line. Gen 2 would have ideally been a 1/2” router capability machine. Then they would be getting even more of my money to have both!! Making us pay for a glitch in not having auto depth adjustment from the file is really milking it.
Yeah Eric, if they would have released a 1/2" SO, I would be looting my bank account to order that baby... I can imagine many ways I would give more money to Shaper, just not for Auto-Pass, that isn't good enough.
Don't agree a 1/2 inch router spindle would not provide much extra value unless it was paired with a much more powerful motor. Thus a redesign of the entire machine. I have a festool 2200 and its a beast compared to the two smaller models.
@@thomasstapel6824 I think that is exactly what we are talking about. Just a larger collet isn't helpful, it would have to be a more powerful router overall.
👏👏👏👏👏
Will the auto-pass have issues with the waste (sawdust) as it keeps going deeper? I find I always have to stop after each pass and make sure I get all of it out before I make another pass. Curious on your thoughts.
Oh man! This thought didn't even cross my mind and I think you are spot on! I also do have to regularly clean up everything before continuing, so I can imagine that Auto-Pass could run into issues with the sawdust. Given I don't have Auto-Pass, I won't be able to test it, but maybe someone can leave their experiences here for others. I will therefore mark your comment so it is shown at the top, in case someone can share more... Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
This video did put me off of ordering one of these systems but I looked on the website and it looks like if I wait long enough it will be included free in the next major update, potentially a year from now. " AutoPass is an optional paid Extension, which will be released as part of the Jenner free system update."
I fear you misunderstood that. The “Jenner” update is the latest update that was released end of last year. As part of that update, the release Auto-Pass, which is a paid extension. There are no plans to make it free I fear…
@@Woodensoul Well that is incredibly disappointing to hear but I think you're right, that is very deceptively written. Hmm, I really want one of these machines but that's not a practice I want to support.
I’ll be honest: I love this tool. I also don’t want to support this business behavior, so I am not paying for auto-pass, but I would not want to miss this device. It’s a tough call, I know. Maybe buy a used one, then you aren’t supporting them at all 😆
@@Woodensoul Hah that's not a bad idea!
Yes...I to agree with your rant!
Welcome to the club, Johnny... hopefully Shaper Tools is listening :D
I`m a bit late with this - course i bought my Origin first some weeks ago. I absolutly agree my friend. This is a disturbing business practice. What if Shaper some day comes up with "use the tool only by a monthly descreption on Shaper hub"? Tending Shaper is not far away from technically beeing a "real" 3D-CNC machine For me this is only a question of software - All needed is already build in (like Autopath). I like the machine very much - but preserve the beginnings ..
My friend - I agree with all you said. It is what it is. I love my Shaper, but I don't like the direction the company is taking...
totally agree
In 100% agreement. $19 bucks I would have dropped that without a second thought. $200..nearly 10% the cost of the machine? What are they smoking? That's a hard pass for me. I am now annoyed I invested in this tool in the first place. If I had known this was the type of greed we could expect from Festool/Shaper I never would have gotten it.
Hi Marsden. Yeah, many feel that way, and I think it's a real bummer how much brand damage this extension has caused. We will have to wait and see if they are able to learn out of their mistakes...
totally agree with you its like you are being taxed for using it
Unfortunately you are right ):
It's crazy they put themselves in a position where the feedback is only negative. There is not one feedback that is positive about that !
Yeah man, I was thinking the same, did they do some research before releasing this? There must have been signs that this won't go down well. Are they listening now? Are they open to fix their mistake?
Hello my friend! Did I see puffs of smoke coming out of your ears. Lol. It’s funny, at first I was really shocked about two items that they brought out , and the cost. Shaper studio, for me is fantastic. The way every
Thing links up from screen to shaper, the auto save, shapeshifter etc. at 139.00 Canadian a year, I find very fair. The auto pass is a nice feature, but do you really need it? Like you said, no not really it’s a convenience. At over 200.00 it’s pricy for sure. Shaper plate, we’ll, again it’s a convenience. Will I use it much? Right now no. I guess it comes down to how much you use the shaper in day to day work. With what I’m building it’s great as is, so I have no need for most of the upgrades. Someone else who uses the Shaper constantly may feel differently. I tell you though when I was batching out those salt pots, I would have killed for auto pass lol. The way I look at it is the company like all companies are trying to make money. I guess they feel they can only sell so many Shapers, and need alternative revenue streams. Honestly the price of the Shaper has not moved since I bought mine two years ago. I this day and age of inflation, we’ll that’s quite amazing. I think the good thing is that you don’t need auto pass to do any work, so paying for it is a choice. Oh and by the way, that resto your were talking about, was it the one we tried. Lol
My friend! Nah, not that many puffs of smoke, haha, that is as angry as I get. The funny thing is, that - as you know - I can easily afford to pay this, but there are moments when I don't want to, it's a matter of principles. Overall I feel pretty much like you. I think the Studio pricing is fair, and it's a new revenue stream for them, where they can continue to innovate and get paid for it. I might subscribe one day, but right now I don't feel I need it. I also am totally ok with them charing for extensions, but these should not be as basic as Auto-Pass. Innovate and take my money, but don't work out table stakes features and milk me... Are you sure the SO price in Canada didn't go up? Here it went up by about 400€, and in the US too, so Canada would be an exception. Oh and the restaurant: Haha, that restaurant is super expensive, we pay about 500-600 USD for a 7-course meal with wine, so I would not have brought you there my friend, that would have been abusive :D Talk soon!
You’re right. I went back and checked my invoice. It did go up 500 cad. I forgot about the tax. Lol. At first I was miffed about the new shaper, and all the new stuff like you talked about, but at the new price, I’m good with the one I have. Have you tried the shaper plate since you bought it? I’m working on a piece right now that the corner round over feature would be handy, but struggle to see any other advantage. Resto abuse, now that’s funny. Good one. 😂😂😂
My Plate is still in the packet it came, unopened. Haven't found the time to dedicate to it, so it's just sitting there and smiling at me :D
I saw the price tag first, and my thoughts were essentially that Autopass was going to be this huge gamechanger. I mean, come on, $200??? Its OBVIOUSLY going to be AWESOME, right? But the very SIMPLISTIC nature of the upgrade........Nah, not worth $200 to me. Reading the comments before posting my own, I wasnt surprised to see that my feelings pretty much mirror everyone elses.
Yeah, reading the comments makes it pretty clear that the vast majority of Shaper customers are upset about this change. If it would have been 25-50 bucks, I might have thought about it...
I refuse this extension. The question is, what happens in the future? I guess Shaper points the direction where they goona go. They don't care about they people they already bought the machines. They look to the people how gonna buy. It's almost impossible for us, the users, to change the direction of shaper...
I certainly hope not that they don't care about their customers. I can only guess that they will have a mix of free and paid upgrades, and likely they will cherry pick the most sexy things to make them paid. It is a bummer though...
I agree.
Welcome to the club :D
Another great video. Keep ranting for all of us. I am sure some at Shaper watch your videos and takes note. I don't think Auto Pass is for me either. I am not in that much of a hurry to get done. I think Auto Pass is for the commercial guys more than the hobby guys. Even so, it is WAY overpriced. I did bite on the Shaper Studio at $50us just to see what I have been missing. I think it is nice to be able to define your cuts and see how it will look. Also you can determine your router bit size before you go to the shaper. But at $100us next year, probaby not.
Yeah, 25-50 USD is what most people here deem to be an acceptable fee for that feature (auto-pass), so you are not alone with your feeling.
Word!
:D
I have an Origin, multiple bits purchased directly from them, a WorkStation, a subscription to Hub, and a plate. I'm probably going to bundle it up and sell it and just get a Onefinity
I am sorry you feel that way man. I still love my SO and am not planning to sell it. Shaper is a young company, so I give them the benefit of the doubt and hope they learn from their mistakes...
Hello from France
I've been circling around the Shaper Origin for quite some time.
The Autopass was I think a necessity, not as an option, but as an evolution.
I thought it was built into the Shaper 2.
A friend told me that it was a paying option, wow....paying!!!!
It's like putting air in tires, it squeezes to go straight!!
Un bonjour de France
Depuis un certain temps je tourne autour de la Shaper Origin.
L´Autopass était je pense une nécessité, non pas comme option, mais comme évolution.
Je pensais que c´était intégré dans la Shaper 2.
Un ami m'a dis que c'était une option payante, whaouuu....payante !!!!
C'est comme mettre de l´air dans des pneus, ça serre a aller tout droit !!
Hello Hervé! Oh, Auto-Pass isn't included for the Shaper 2 either? I didn't even know that. I thought the higher price was due to Auto-Pass being included, should have done more research. Even worse...
I agree with you 💯 , instead of being creator they become profit company, I really understand the business aspect of it however when you buy the whole set you spend about $4000 and any operating update should be free …think about iPhone charging you $100 every time they update their operating system. The question is are they going to charge money every time they upgrade. That’s turn off. So technically one could spend almost over $5000 over 2yrs , then why not buy bench CNC .
Yes, the example with smartphones also crossed my mind. A good compare is maybe the Tesla updates, which are free, except a few that deliver significant value such as adding auto pilot. That wss my point: I am ok paying for additional value, but not for a table stakes feature like auto-pass…
I think they may have been better off charging for things like box/finger joints and dovetail joints. Charging such a premium for Autopass is just not ok.
You’re right. Box Joint and Text Basic were genuine extensions, yet were free. AutoPass is more like core functionality in my opinion. A small charge would have been acceptable but >£200!
Yeah, exactly. Those features expanded what we could do, charging a small feel (small!) would have been acceptable...
I sold my shaper after the paid 200-dollar extension and used the money to buy the onefinity CNC.
I don’t want to keep pumping money into a handheld CNC for way overpriced extensions and having functions taken away that are now behind paywalls. When the CEO said the price would go up I was actually shocked. The way things are going with all the paywalls, overpriced extensions, studio being 99 dollars a year, and the responses from the CEO, I decided to sell it and get out of the shaper family. I understand everything is not free but 199 or more for autopass that’s absolutely ridiculous.
Hi David. I am sorry to see you leave the Shaper family, but I also can understand your reasoning. I hope it won’t be as bad as you think, but only the future an tell. I have also started to look into the Onefinity due to this incident. Have fun with it!
@@Woodensoul I think it will be mainly because it's the same company that owns Festool. I love Festool but they price gouge also I bought the 600-dollar vacuum and wanted the tool holder (work center) for it but it is 460 dollars. That's almost the price of the vacuum for a metal and plastic tool holder! I guess it just comes down to what people are willing to blow money on. 2022 has rewarded bigger companies for price-gouging consumers. As long as people keep buying overpriced products they will keep increasing their prices (Like Festool has done in the last couple of years). Sorry for the rant but I feel like companies are using the excuses of the last couple of years to increase their profit margins.
If youre doing 50 of something....and you gotta change depth 2-3x per .... I can see this being sweet...but idk about the $200
I am just finishing a video where I calculate the time savings... I will publish it next Saturday.
I agree too
Welcome to the club, Andreas :D
I agree. It's kinda like BMW and Tesla offering subscriptions for basic features.
You mean like paying for seat heating? Indeed...
Yes, it's the beginning of the end for this companies reputation. I don't think things like that should be sold separately, period. Improving the tools capabilities is just improving the tool. That should result in more sales and better customer satisfaction, which should lead to more referrals and repeat business. I don't necessarily have a problem with charging for something like studio because it's kind of a separate thing. But to be honest, I'll never use it as it's a really simple thing and it would probably be better for shaper to offer a simple software option like that as included in the purchase. Trying to nickel and dime customers instead of just offering a great product at whatever fair price is necessary to offer that product is, in my opinion, a really poor business model.
That pretty much sums it up, Joshua. Obviously we don't understand their revenue streams, and maybe opening up further streams is key to their survival. But this stream seems really short sighted...
I totally agree I will not recommend Shaper to another one of my students or colleagues ever again. To charge $199 for this feature is absurd. It should be part of Jenner
Yeah Wayne, especially such a basic table stakes feature... I wish they would have done their research before rolling this out.
I just wrote a big response. RUclips had turned on Autoplay again and lost it. TLDR. Was considering CNC. Watched lots of Shaper Videos. Reached this one. Conclusion: Solves problems that I don't have. More fiddley than other methods. $200 to fix cumbersome UI. Nope. Lost sale! £3000+ on CNC I can leave running and spend my life on something else fun! Also are there lots of Bots posting on Shaper videos I read a significant number of comments and noticed patterns. Maybe I am a bot! Cheers for the heads up!
Hi Phil. I understand your perspective, and if my video has helped you to take the right decision for yourself, then I am happy about that. Personally, I still love my Shaper Origin, and I would not want to go without it. That doesn't mean I agree with all of Shaper's business decisions, and this one here was clearly one that is upsetting and shows that they need to get a better handle on their community if they want to build a long-term business.
It makes me feel ripped off A classical overprice story Also funny. They asked us a while ago in a survea for new ideas I see some of my sugestions in the new jenner update A small thank you would have been nice instead of a large bill
Haha... well I guess you responded to an anonymous survey, so they couldn't say thank you that way. But they could have at least not rip us all off instead...
Since the advent of subscription software and paid upgrades, I have found that those that charge are better supported, fix bugs quicker and continue to offer meaningful enhancements. I have no problem paying $50-$200/year for really robust professional grade products. My examples are adobe products, microsoft products, and sketchup. Expensive? Yes for a hobbyist who just wants to get by with minimal support. If shaper ever drops their quality or starts delivering products that are buggy, I'll ditch them. $200 for an upgrade that will pay for itself in time and error savings quickly is worth it. I am expecting perfection for the upgrade. We'll see it. If you think it's too high, don't buy it. Your origin will continue working fine.
I don't disagree with you. I do have many subscriptions that are worth their money. But this is not a subscription, it's basic functionality that you get off the shelf in any CNC system, therefore it doesn't deliver significant additional value, therefore Shaper won't get my money. They will continue to get my money for value, and I will continue to call them out if they are too greedy, like e.g. this paid extension or their outrageously overpriced router bits. So yes, I think it's too high, so I don'0t buy it, that was exactly my point. Thanks for summarizing it...
Yeah this particulaly pissed me off. This is a feature that should have been on the tool all along. My other CNC machines can all do this and they didn't cost as much. I assumed shaper would continue to improve the origin. I didn't know they would make me pay large amounts for upgrades. Its bad enough that I just got mine 6 weeks ago and now they have announced a completely new version. I would have waited the six weeks. Customer service said, "Oh sorry". Give ME autopass for free if you are sorry.
Haha, Adam, that made me laugh. Don't say sorry, give me auto-pass, I can't buy anything with your sorry. I am cracking up... FWIW: This is the first time they are doing something like that, so we have still hope they learn from their mistakes. If they see that only a small fraction of the Shaper user base is purchasing auto-pass, they will hopefully reconsider, who knows?
The marketing dept. definitely have shot themselves in the foot here, charging £200+ for a piece of code that is akin to downloading an app for my phone. Ask Elon Musk how well charging for a blue checkmark on your twitter account worked out for him.
It seems that there are more and more companies trying to increase cash flow by charging for things one would expect to be included, like the blue checkmark crap for Twitter, or Elon Musk increasing the price for auto-pilot to 15k...
I don't know how I feel about the new software update. I get it from Shaper's perspective, and I understand the users frustrations. I'm more p!ssed off about the yearly subscription for Studio. Give me the limited Labs version back for free.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I was less upset about the yearly Studio subscription, because I felt that this was an additional service/functionality that isn't necessarily standard/expected in a regular CNC device, and it's normal to pay software licenses. But then again, I didn't subscribe to Studio, so it's easy to say for me...
I 99% disagree with you on this one. I love your videos and opinions are opinions but your analogy doesn't even apply to this particular case. This is not about calling a restaurant to get a table and getting charged for it. The analogy that would work is that a restaurant announces a new service where they offer a private dinner with servers and chef dedicated to you so can enjoy the convenience of not having to wait for them to serve other tables but you have to pay an additional fee. It doesn't make food better. The quality is the same, but it improves your experience. That's what autopass is for SO. A convenient feature that enhances your experience and maybe, just maybe makes you more productive. Where I agree with you is the price and ROI. I think it is high and I personally will not get it for now. We also need to remember that we just got a few new features, even though they're not that many but they are FREE!
We can agree to disagree. I understand your point, but I disagree that Auto-Pass is like getting a private room with a dedicated chef. That has obviously a huge impact on my dining experience, but Auto-Pass has not. It's a minor thing, I won't save a lot of time, nor will the results be significantly better. Therefore, the impact on my workflow and work experience is small. That is why I perceive it as "convenience" and not as altering my experience. Maybe you seen much more value in Auto-Pass than I do, hence the difference in assessment.
Sold my Shaper Origin yesterday. I like the machine, but I no longer agree with the pricing policy. It's too much like Apple for me.
My credit card company allows me to return something for 90 days, so I might go that route. I didn't realize the kind of company Shaper is.
I am sorry you feel that way, Andre, because I still love my Shaper, but I do understand you. After all, you never know what will happen in the future, and it leaves a bitter aftertaste... sorry to see you leave the Shaper community, but no matter what, I wish you happy woodworking!
Hey Adam. I think that up until now, Shaper wasn't that way. I still hope they can learn...
@@Woodensoul Many thanks for your response. I really liked the Origin, but I also miss the 3D editing. From the start I was disappointed with the Shaper. At that time I had bought a package that included training (free) that otherwise costs €200. This training consisted of 2 sessions with the basics of the machine, i.e. everything you can find for free on RUclips. Then there were the prices of the Plate (much too expensive), Studio (inferior program) and now Autopass (much too expensive). My fear is simply that you have to pay for more and more, possibly a subscription so that the Origin is still working. It's like the dlc for games. I also found it outrageous that OS2 was launched without an announcement. Only that the Origin is more expensive. A friend of mine bought the SO1 a month earlier and is now angry too.
@@andrescheppler766 Yeah man, I hear you and understand that perspective. It certainly is looking that way. I still have hope it won't be that bad, but I totally understand the optics...
It’s not just you!! I’ll surely be able to live without auto pass.
Which is a bummer, but yeah, let's open the club of auto-pass deniers :D
Totally agree. At least highwaymen wore masks. We have a tv show in UK called Rip-off Britain. They should be on it. Plate not worth the money and I haven't bought the workstation. Built my own from plywood and it has worked great for past year. Have also made my own Plate using Shaper Origin of course. As for shaper tape (another rip off). Mark my words we are going to get ripped off mor and more with these "subscriptions". I told my 3 mates about this and their jaws dropped in unison. Maybe the upcoming financial crash will focus their minds.
I truly hope this is not just the beginning and they move to more reasonable revenue streams, but I fear you could be right, Allan. As for the Shaper Tape, you can at least print your own and not spend that. As for Auto-Pass, we will have to continue manual setting...
We can only vote with our dollars... or lack there of, and hope they learn that $200 for a little bit of software code is just ridiculous. It's only an improvement to one aspect of the machine and they want as much as Microsoft charges for a full Windows Pro license. At least Windows does more than one thing. I might have spent $20 for a convenience item. I bet they really misjudged their market.
You are 100% right. The only way to let them know is through our purse. I also think they misjudged the mood and the market, but I am not so confident they are willing to admit that...
I agree and refuse to pay the price. Something as common as this should be included with upgrades. What a scam
Yeah man... it continues to be annoying!
especially when it costs £210 !!! if it was like £10 £20or even £50 i would of been ok, but when it costs just under the price of the plate!?!? please
Yeah, the price tag is hefty for such a small software upgrade 😫
It's the canary in the coal mine. Soon, they will charge for any update. They're obviously are testing the waters for this. Watch, every update will be $$$ so they can get people to subscribe, essential, to the tool.
That is my fear too. Soon everything will be connected with "cha-ching"...
For me, the upgrade is far too expensive for the functionality increase it provides. It's pretty much how I feel about all of Festool's stuff - it's super nice, great quality, but the price premium you pay isn't worth it in most cases. My DeWalt random orbit sander works just fine for me and it has lasted for years. Would a Festool or Mirka sander work better and/or last longer? Probably, but it won't work 5 or 10 times better or last 5 or 10 times longer, while the price is 5x or 10x the price of a DeWalt (or MIlwaukee or Makita or whatever) sander. My Shaper is an awesome tool, and it allows me to do things I wouldn't even try without it. I was willing to pay the Festool price for it because of that. But for this upgrade they are charging a Festool price for a Harbor Freight level of functionality increase. I won't buy it at that price.
I know what you mean with the Festool premium. I mostly use Festool and I am very happy with the devices, but I agree that the difference to other brands is often not as big as the price difference. You might be right, that Festool DNA is flowing into Shaper...
I used a dewalt sander for many, many years. Then I bought a festool sander because I had golfers elbow from sanding. Now I have 4 festool sanders 1.5 years later. Just don’t try a festool and you will never know what your missing. 😂
Yeah, I love my Festool tools, no question about that. You didn't get golfers elbow man, you did sanding elbow :D
@@sz3231 I've tried Festool sanders. They're very good, but in my opinion just not worth the premium (around 3X the cost over a DeWalt, at minimum) you pay over other brands. I've never had any problems from using my sander, so I'll stick with it.
Good call man, never change a winning team. The point here is, that you have the choice and decide what you want, but there are not surprise hidden costs that suddenly smack you in the face...
Like if they came out with a way to do 3d contours I'd pay for that
Are you kidding? I would want to know were is the line to bring them my money...
Yeah a bit ridiculous for the price. The cost of the tool and the consumables I would have thought software updates would be part of what you're already paying for. Very disappointing
Yeah, disappointing and greedy ):
Ich stimme dir absolut zu. Die Maschine an sich ist schon überteuert, aber sowohl für Privatanwender wie Gewerbetreibende stellt Sie einen erheblichen Mehrwert in der Arbeit dar. Aber es wurde immer damit geworben, dass Shaper immer besser wird durch kostenlose Update und das ist genau die gegenteilige Entwicklung. Man sehe sich die überteuerten Fräser, Workstation und Plate an....auch da nur gierig. Mit Shaper Labs holten sie sich Input von Anwendern und machen dann denselben Scheiß wie Corel und Consorten und verkaufen einem Jahresabos mit Updates die teilweise ein Witz sind. Dann löschen sie das bisher kostenlose Labs und du kannst nur noch auf das kostenpflichtige Studio zugreifen. Das finde ich auch nicht in Ordnung. Auf dem Rücken der Kunden entwickeln und dann nur noch abzocken. Und ehrlich, ein echter Mehrgewinn ist Jenner nun wirklich nicht. Also gibts auch keinen Hofknicks. Wir werden den Tag erleben, wo Updates generell kostenpflichtig sind, speziell, wenn sie tatsächlich den Arbeitsumfang verbessern. Und nur aus einem Grund.....weil sie es können.
Ja, leider ist man ziemlich abhängig, weil man ja schon viel Geld investiert hat, und so einen Lock-In hat. Wobei hier einige berichten, dass sie aufgrund von Auto-Pass ihren SO verkauft haben. Wer weiss ob das stimmt, aber ich nehme an, dass es schon einige gibt, die das getan haben, oder es ernsthaft in Erwägung ziehen. Schliesslich liegt es an den Kunden auch klar die Grenzen aufzuzeigen, deshalb kaufe ich Auto-Pass nicht, auch wenn ich es mir leisten könnte...
Agree. For me it's massive overpriced compared to the benefit. Every CAM software which i know is doing the same and it's absolut basic feature on every CNC.
Yeah, it doesn't expand what you can do, it's just for convenience... a real bummer...
I'm agreed, but shaper isn't selling like it should. I run majority of my work on my CNC mill right. I can tell see there desperate for cash.
Yeah Arthur, it looks pretty desperate, I agree...
Please don't mention this in Shaper forums, I did and got attacked by a bunch of shaper fans who have no problem being rinsed.
They throw about personal attacks and call you unhinged when you defend yourself.
I spent £4000 on Shaper and accessories and if I am not happy, I have every right to say so, even if you don't like it.
I am really sorry you have been attacked by Shaper fanboys, just for voicing your opinion Chris. That is one of the reasons I am not present in the forum at all - I have found some answers of some (few) people to be arrogant and aggressive, and I don't like that kind of community. Then again, most SO users are super kind and supportive, so it's a bummer that you have a few people poisoning things for others.
@@Woodensoul Thankyou.
To be fair I wasn't to kind towards Shaper, but as a consumer I feel very let down and angry; I never attacked anyone personally.
I fully agree with everything in your video, it appears most do which surprises me Shaper have ignored all the negative feedback and went ahead with this ridiculous price.
As others have stated, they would pay £50 for it through gritted teeth, surely they would have generated more income than rinsing a small bunch of die hard fan, most of whom would sell a kidney to by the next £100 router bit.
Hopefully only a few purchase Autopass and it backfires on them.
@@chrisparkinson9237 Haha... yeah, sometimes you have to blow off steam. I also hope it backfires on them, but I am not sure they would admit it...
@@chrisparkinson9237 I hope that too...
I'm going to be the odd man. If you say "this is a convenience feature, this adds no value to the machine" -and you do, why are so many of you upset? If you're so convinced that this does nothing for you, simply -don't buy it-. I've seen other discussions on the shaper forums where people suggest there should be a professional fee and a hobbyist fee.
The professional fee is $200. If you use the shaper A LOT, you will get your money's worth
The hobbyist fee is zero dollars. As you say yourself, it's not a very big feature if you're only saving a minute or two. So, you're fine not spending the money.
See, you're right. It's "only a convenience feature" if you only use it from time to time. Like booking your special restaurant. (and by the way, your example doesn't work. You never lose the ability to do what you've always done. You are NOT suddenly being charged to do the same thing. You are charged for doing it better. No need to call the restaurant.. just press a button.. no one is telling you you can't make a reservation anymore.. the same features are right there)
You say "they want my experience to be worse" moments after saying "this feature is no big deal" -make up your mind!
1. You're not missing anything, by your own definition.
2. You're really upset about it, it suggests that you ARE missing out, and you DO see the value.
If you use the shaper A LOT. Like as part of a business that generates you cash, then you buy it and over time, you get the benefit.
This is simply supply and demand, economy of scale.
ALL THAT BEING SAID: I can process, that 200 is a steep price. 200$ is an annual upgrade cost to software packages I love, that add a LOT of features. This is just one thing. But, that's the machine. It's unlike ANYTHING on the market for CNC devices. And they command that market. If they charged 50, they clearly would be making more $ if everyone here who is NOT buying, does. We'll see if they learn from income gained or lost.
Hi Fred. Thank you for your thoughtful comment. I don't think you are the odd man, there are a few (not many) who argue similarly, so all good. I don't need to make up my mind. This feature is no big deal, so I have decided to not buy it. But maybe I should have phrased it better: "This feature is not enough of a big deal for me to spend 200 bucks.". Is it nice? Is it a nice convenience? Sure. Is it nice enough to spend half the worth of a Shaper Workstation? Not in a lifetime. Last week I posted a video (ruclips.net/video/4WftJG3r5Rs/видео.html) showing that you save 7.5s per time you don't have to manually set the cut depth. That is nothing, so again, not a big deal, therefore I won't buy it. In addition, some viewers commented on the need to vacuum your workpieces in between the different cut depths, which is something I do all the time. Therefore, I am not even sure how well Auto-Pass will work, in combination with dust collection. Given I have decided not to buy it, I won't be able to test it, but I am sure someone (you?) will share their experience how well this works.
Either way, this video was meant to share my rationale why I have decided to not buy this, so people who are on the fence can take it into account when deciding. Given the overwhelming feedback, I have realized I am not alone. I agree, we will see if they learn from their income gained, and I do hope they take brand damage into account, when doing these calculations.
@@Woodensoul Totally makes sense. I'm curious where this goes after all the 'feedback'. On one hand, I hope the keep releasing improvements like this, on the other, I hope they learn a lot from the pricing here that tells them they aimed too high.
I do expect to buy it.
I'm working on a video on how anyone can encode depths and other settings into their svg files without fusion or studio. -Not to get around paying Shaper. I just like my drawing tools better.
@@80211Denver Very curious to see this video, Fred, so please share it with me once it's ready. With depth encoding in Jenner, one can do that on the SO, but it's pretty fiddly, so doing this in the SVG would be RAD.
Das schisst mi oh ah. Uh wes ah 50er oder 100 wär de chames ja no überdänke aber das isch ah frächeit.
Goil, dr Konrad, roggt vol uf Österrichisch ab? Haha... jo, i hätt auno 25-50 vilicht zahlt, aber eigentlich findi sott das nüd koschte. Na ja, villicht merke sis jo no?
I'm confused why people think they can get stuff for free.
I am confused why people think it’s ok to pay extra for things that should have been included on day one.