I'm so damn happy to live in Finland. Never indoctrinated to any religion, just naturally Atheistic with no effort or stuggle at all. Secular countries are the paradise on earth.
It is great to find like minded people. Freethinking People, giving their children the greatest gift in life. To be able to think for themselves and question everything. Keep up the good work.
I was in the japan earfhquake. Not a single prayer was of any use to us, it was the countless hours of hard labor from those of us that didnt get swallowed by the devastation, that helped.
I absolutely agree with the caller who said "teach your kids to question EVERYTHING.....INCLUDING YOU!" When people apologise for asking too many questions (like in games and stuff) I always tell them: "Don't ever feel sorry for asking questions....asking questions is the smartest thing any of us can do. Not answering questions is the dumbest." Its one reason I get angry when I see parents tell their kids to stop asking so many questions. They SHOULD be asking questions!!!
My father is a Jewish Atheist, my mom is an atheist from a Catholic family, and to top it all off my uncle (through marriage to my aunt) is an atheist from a Muslim family. I learned about religion from the outside looking in. All I saw was contradiction and stories with nothing to back it up any one claim. Now I'm teaching my son about religion in the same 3rd party fashion. You'd be surprised how mixing religious ideas nuetralizes them all at the same time.
This was such an insightful, compelling podcast. I think it is tremendously encouraging to see people respecting and raising children to critically think for themselves and encourage them to do so. Autumn is such a bright young lady and its teenagers like herself that will make for a better future for us. I think some of our callers brought very interesting insights to the debate, and Lonna was really one of them. I salute these people!
As an atheist, I always said I'd educate my children, tell the truth and teach them the facts, and allow them to choose for themselves. But what I discovered was that, in educating them and offering them the truth and the facts, I was raising atheists. And now I'm the mother of 5 atheists, who will more than likely go on to raise their own free thinking non believers. What a wonderful cycle.
As a grandmother of a child that is being raised as a JW, I only have a short time to help my Grandchildren to develop Critical Thinking Skills. They are 3 and 5. They like to hear stories about when I was a child, so we play a game. I tell them a story and they guess if it's the truth or not. Then we discuss why. I also encourage them to tell me stories. Even the 3 year old can now formulate interesting stories. They always preface it with the words" this is a story"
This is such a magnificent show :) Thank you so much for your work, please keep it up! Internet is killing religion, humanity will be free from organised superstition. And this world will be so much brighter and happier place for it.
Thanks for the mention of the quake at the beginning of the show. I, thankfully, live in Saitama prefecture, which was only hit with a sizable portion of the original quake and is far enough inland that the tsunami was not a danger. Still, I spend much of my 11th, helping people get in touch with their loved ones to let them know they are alright and trying to see if I can get a hold of others for family members living overseas. Yesterday I went into work to clean up the office space
I agree with you on the point of prayer, Seth. Since becoming an atheist, I have become increasingly irritated with the idea of prayer to "help" those in distress. Whenever my family prays for people who are going through hard times I want to jump out of my seat and shout "WELL DON'T JUST SIT THERE! DO SOMETHING TO ACTUALLY HELP THEM!"
I've a 6 month old son and I'm already thinking about this. I'm a Buddhist myself, but I'll be raising my child mostly secular with Asian philosophy and values. If the topic of religion ever comes up (and I know it will, because my brother is raising his child Christian), We'll go study them all together. We'll talk to an Imam, read the vedas, attend a church etc together. We'll discus them afterwards and test them on science, reason and history. A great way to spend time with your kid, educati
@CybershamanX Bryan, I personally really appreciate your courage and want to thank you for taking the time to call, wait in line to go on air for so long and telling us your story. Thank you!
Great podcast. Being in Indiana & dealing with my 16 yr old daughter's religious friends is challenging. I heard my daughter telling one of her proselytizing friends that "god" is just Santa Claus for adults. The next time I saw that friend's mom she asked my about that incident. I told her we're not religious but she insisted that we go to church together so we could get saved. I told her "thanks but I don't believe in ANY gods since reading the bible". Haven't seen that friend since.
I was studying Japanese at my local college and i remember the very words that got me to help, they shake me to my core today. i was watching to news and i saw this little 4-5 maybe 6 year old girls say; Onee-san wa doko desu ka? literally: Where is my older sister After that her mother took the child in her arms and held her close. The news went on but that image was forever engraved in me. I couldn't sit still anymore Stop praying and start making a real difference.
This podcast had un unusually high number of excellent callers and a great guest as well. Certainly put some things into perspective, in case I ever want kids.
You don't have to "sit it out", as you say. I have no guilt about privately talking to children of religious parents and playfully asking them questions that will prompt them to think for themselves. Children don't really belong to their parents, and they don't belong to me, but they are OUR future. They are individuals. I don't intend to hold my tongue around children simply because they live under someone else's roof. Stand up for THEIR individuality. Don't be afraid to influence them.
I'm a born again atheist. Was raised in the LDS church. I have two boys and have no intention of raising them in any religion. But I have to admit, I'm terrified to raise them as free thinkers. I think if I had been raised the same way I would be fine with it but the uncertainty is killing me. However, I will not subject my kids to lies and myths to control them. Wish me luck everyone!!
I agree with your statement that the world is not simply black and white all the time and there are all those different shades of grey and color. That is why telling a child there definitely is not a God is telling the child an absolute , black or white statement that can cause the child to be very confused. Atheism is much better suited for adults than small children.
I love being an atheist. It is the most amazing feeling in the world. I have never truly felt free until I became an atheist. Atheism and freedom are synonymous
My brother and I were both homeschooled secularly for a couple years. We're both in college now and I'm not having any social problems, we were both in and out of public schools though. According to my homeschooling schedule, I had an hour of prayer and an hour of bible study every day. I actually pretended to be religious so that the school board wouldn't question my schedule and let me have "prayer and worship" time every day which I would usually use to see my boyfriend and slack off.
Thanks. Even tough I'm nowhere near having children, given that I've only just started university, I'm defibnitely planning to have some, and i have really been thinking about things like this... thank you, you've been an inspiration and given me some ideas.
Contin. Educational for the both of us, teaching him to do fair research by examing all sides. My child will also have freedom in any religion he wishes to attend (as long it's not extreme or radical) but he'll won't get freedom in science, reason and history. Facts remain facts.
i got stuck in a homeless shelter and there was one particular person who had decided to sit next to us one day and that was ok she tried to play games with my kids, that was ok, then she decided to start in on religion, specifically "god's love" and this started to confuse my kids who thought this person was just distracting them from their lunch. i asked her to move away and leave us alone, she decided to target us. she took it on herself to try to talk to my kids every time she could(more)
As far as the "Wishing upon a star" comment by our South African caller, we want our kids to be free thinkers but we also want them to be kids and have an imagination and creativity and be able to play pretend. But we also have to instil the difference between reality and fantasy. To this day my favourite books are fantasy books but I can still enjoy them as an atheist because I KNOW they'r fake and I simply find them fun and enjoyable.
Just had my first "somebody preaching to me" moment today, never actually thought it would happen to me, but it made me feel so unbelievably uncomfortable. I am an atheist, but I'm only 19 and only recently did I truly realize I'm an atheist. I'm half swedish and canadian and have lived in both countries and religion has never really been too much in my face. But today, I'm riding in the car with my swedish uncle and we happen to drive by the church I was baptized in (continued)
Great podcast! One of my biggest pet peeves is watching a parent talking to their young children about religion, and/or how God controls the weather, or God does this and that.... Let the child grow up to make up his own mind! Honestly!!!! And furthermore, teach your children science, and the facts! Kids just need to learn to think for themselves!!
He'll know what you're doing and if he approves of it, he'll help you regardless of whether or not you ask him to change his plan, because ultimately that's what you're asking Him for.
Wow, my heart is breaking for caller at 1:15:00 ....we all need a reminder that children are fragile...it's easy to forget but so important that we don't.
that first caller was a great help... and kids love magic. I have told my son I don't believe in god and frighteningly he went to my view amazingly fast, which as you can imagine was the last thing I wanted. I just left it saying how clever he was and that people saying something was true did not mean it was.
I know, because I used to be one, that Christians believe "The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective." (James 5:16). But I think the most appropriate verse for this kind of thing is James 2:16 "If one of you says to them, 'Go in peace, be warm and well fed.' but does nothing about their physical needs. What good is it?"
We want children within the next 5 years so I've been thinking about this topic a lot recently. C0nc0rdance recently made an excellent video on this topic. My parents ignored the topic of religion; it was a non-issue in our house. I understand this position, and when religion finally dies out, this will be the appropriate treatment. Unfortunately, religion is still a powerful force in this world, and we must give religion its due respect or else we will fall victim. Great show.
As the last caller, I just want everyone to know that I almost had a breakdown "on air"... I wrote about it in my latest blog post (see my RUclips profile...) Other than that, awesome show and I'm hooked! See everyone in the chat room next time! :)
You're actually agreeing with me, as I stated that there is Christianity present there. What I meant by godforsakenness is god forsaking them, not that they are areligious or atheist. Also, notice how miracle claims, especially medical ones, tend to always come from places with good quality of life.
continued.. After that my aunt & uncle treated him much better. My cousin no longer had the fear of going to hell or felt like he was sick because who he is. I live with my brother & his family. Him & his wife are atheist/agnostic & are raising their kids to think critically. My 10 yr old niece already thinks it's completely insane to believe in a religion.
My parents never taught me anything relating to religion, and I think it was a mistake, because I fell prey to a religious nut of a teacher right when I went to school. It took me 20 years to finally escape the clutches of theistic indoctrination. I think learning to question every claim (and every claimant) is important, but so is, as Dennett says, teaching the facts about as many religions as possible. Knowledge and skepticism are the keys to freedom of thought.
If they know Santa isn't real you can still do the whole Santa thing and make it a sort of game rather than trying to make them believe he is real. If they know he isn't real but treat it more like a fun thing to do then they are less likely to believe other things are real. Good job. I really like that idea.
@QualityQman It is fear of the unknown that makes people susceptible to religions (fear of death, the thought of ever-lasting afterlife, etc - These are mortal hooks they use to snare their followers)... Teach your boys to think for themselves. Embrace the unknown. Use it as an opportunity to learn. Teach them the importance to question everything. Including their parents. If they challenge you, have evidence to back it up.
I agree, God does (in some, perhaps not all cases) provide assistance to those who haven't asked for it. But whether or not he approves of the action you're doing isn't the only thing to consider. The I/thou relationship which prayer strengthens is itself a good thing, and if God always helped people prayer or not, then people would be misled into thinking they don't need God's assistance. God helps people only when it's good for them. Sometimes it's better for them to do it on their own.
@stiimuli Your sceptical edge gave me a little smile. :) The game is called Dragons of Atlantis and it's an evony clone - a facebook game. None of the discussion happened in text, it was only over comms so unless someone else was recording it, there's no record. Either way, I doubt the producers of the game would care much either way. As I said, I'm hardly broken up about being kicked but it was just a bit of a culture shock. I've heard tales like this from American Atheists before but never
and then headed down to city hall to help stock trucks with supplies (blankets, potable water, kerosene for heaters, non-perishable food) that was being sent up to Fukushima before finally getting some sleep last night. If it wasn't for my job, I'd probably be on one of those trucks myself. It was a surreal 2 days. No amount of preparation can really... prepare you for a disaster like this and Japan is among the most (if not THE most) prepared country for these kinds of disasters.
Very true... people feel that some do not get what they deserve in their lives whether it be punishment or reward.. so they form an idea of god because they feel that they can move on because it is in "God's hands" .
... shouted down for another ten minutes or so before the officers of the guild pulled me into a private room. I was basically told that they were an 'easy going' guild who wanted to be open to families and people who didn't appreciate my 'extremist' views. They told me I really couldn't be trusted not to make people uncomfortable with my 'hateful rhetoric'. The fact that I wouldn't pray for a good thing, or just pretend to, meant I was a severe, hatefilled militant and I needed to leave.
Yes, prayer is irrational and doesn't do anything, but many Christians believe prayer may supplement the effects of action. So they do indeed both pray and act.
I wanted to make my facebook status: "Prayer is an action that makes the useless feel useful. Donate to Japan, DO things to actually help them. Quit sitting around hoping and feeling like you're doing something. You want to help? Get off your knees and physically help these people-- or at least donate." I couldn't do it though. I'm just so tired of arguing at this point.
I haven't produced any children. I do have an adult stepson and I'm completely up-front with him about my views as a skeptic and an atheist. I have a ten-year-old granddaughter (daughter of the adult-stepson) and I'm more circumspect with her, because of her age. I confine myself to questions, such as "How do you know?" and "How do they know?" or sometimes simply laughing when a religious/spiritual/superstitious belief is mentioned.
continued) and they were good christian people. and after a while i asked the "prayer collector" to pray for her, not me, i explained to my kids that it was because of her pushyness and inability to allow others their thing. "judge not les ye be judged" thing
@hldemi I should have clarified; Agnosticism/Gnosticism refers to the level of knowledge the individual proclaims, whereas Atheism/Theism/Deism refers to individual belief. It has been under some dispute on what atheism actually entails - whether it's simply a disbelief in God(s), or whether it involves the denial of God(s)' existence. I think newborns fall under the category of irreligious more than theist/atheist, since those entail actually having a belief as opposed to being undecided.
I would be extraordinarily cautious about the home-schooling. I wasn’t home schooled. I’m a public-school graduate, but I’m still completely unprepared for the real world. In social situations of any sort, I’m completely lost. Mainly, it’s because my parents are abusive and the rest of my extended family is complicit and I count myself incredibly fortunate that I wasn’t home schooled or it would be worse.
@gemkid85 the more you say that exact message, to masses and masses of people.... The more you say this thing to all people, the better off this world will be.
The early reference to the salvation army raises an interesting point: although I admire the work they do, I cant help but think that, (being a religious organisation), they're doing it for the wrong, or misguided, reasons. Im not fully sure of my stance on the topic, I'd love to hear others veiws.
continued) finally, she ended up in the lunch room shortly after a sermon where i had explained that these people who were sharing their ideas with us and we will have lunch too. she was griping at the fact that her own children had been removed from her care and went on more about how correct she was and how persecuted she was and finally, in front of a group of other people, "please shut up and leave my family alone." there were other people in the lunch room, they sided with me (more)
just a note on the camp thing im a program assistant at a girl scout camp which for those of you who dont know is in fact a christian association which make me kind of sad really its not all the prevalent but still noticeable we sing a hal-fassed vague prayer at the end of the day and we sing different fun little graces before meals we dont exclude girls of different regions and ive never hear anybody mention god but an all girls atheist camp sounds pretty cool i dunno sounded like a neat idea
So... You refer to us as your people? Ha ha. That made me chuckle. Great podcast. Something I have been thinking about myself for a while now. Great points that is only fair to the child. Makes me think about the important thing to me, if there were no religions or indoctrination, where would we be now? Probably in a world of peace and happiness.
@mkwatson92 The people who do works, going out to help people by repairing or reconstructing, or supplying food or supplies, they're NOT the people who are criticised, but the people who pray INSTEAD of doing actions. Prayer on its own does nothing.
I work as a preschool teacher at a local preschool that receives state funding. I love the kids but there is something that bothers me and that is they force the children (ages 3-4) to pray at every meal. All the kids say "Thank you for our food...Amen". It bothers me so much!
@TheThinkingAtheist Why not? As a Christian, prayer is more than just asking God for things. It's about fellowship. I wouldn't NOT pray; even as I act. (This is Amy, by the way. Gary just introduced me to your Podcast. It's good to hear your voice again; even if I don't agree with a lot of what you're saying.) My question was an honest one. Why that assumption? Is that because that's what many see? Is that their perception of Christians?
@pakleglia This is so very true. So many people are cheated out of help, and so many helpers are cheated out of gratitude when all the responsibility and credit gets heaped on "God".
I sincerely wish that was the case, but reality shows that most of those Christians who truly need help are left with no response whatsoever. I know people have to take care of themselves but there comes a time when you really need a hand, and thus far, the only hand I've seen is the human hand, either making it worse or better.
Wow the part of making up superstitions really relate me. When i was young me and few of my friends made up our own religion, with sacrifises of bugs and all the other stuff. I think this really made me realize the sillyness of religion. And i remember we started with 3 friends and it ended up with 10 or 11 people.
I just got kicked out of my gaming guild because I wouldn't pray for Japan. We have a vent server, and when the first reports came in about the initial quake, one of the guys, an american based in Sri Lanka, burst into the room where we were talking and said 'Hey, there's a massive earthquake in Japan. Let's all pray.' Literally just that. So I moved to another vent room and left them too it. After about five minutes two of the guys used vent controls to pull me back into the room...
I think you should expose your child to religion. Atleast the major ones. Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hindu. Take them to religious ceremonies, and services, and learn about them yourself, so you can answer questions about they might ask about the religions beliefs, and origins. Read to them of the holy books if you can stand to. Nothing will keep them away from religion like the horror stories in those books.
when my 5 year old questioned about "santa" and i showed her that website from the history channel about the history of the character, the answer is, yes, santa clause is real, it ties to a saint and became a ledgend.
As a fellow atheist homeschooler, it drives me nuts hearing the go to criticisms. School does not healthfully socialize children. Possibly, the biggest indoctrination we deal with is public education.
The Baskin robbins story is the right way.... teach them to think, that's how my dad did it, he got an atheist (me) and a bible thumper (my sister) out of it. It's the only fair way as the "weaker minds" are going to go whatever way they are steered anyway.
@ASquared007 I agree, that was my whole point But how does one "teach patience" when we're surrounded by a society that is all about first impressions and what's the next new thing? We live in a fastpaced society while trying to teach the kids to take it easy
If you want a child that thinks for themselves and questions what others say is to show thier gullability to them. Tell them something outragous and make sure they realize that they believed it for a second. they will learn that not everything is correct that people tell them.
@Cyelon When you buy insurance, you're not hoping that you get into an accident. They wanted to make sure it WOULDN'T call atheists bad instead of being blind about it
... and started grilling meabout why I left. I said to them that I was an atheist and I wasn't going to pray with them, so I left the room so I didn't disturb them and so I didn't have to listen to them. Various different things were said on top of eachother at that point: "You're INHUMAN." "Why do you hate Japan?" "Don't you care?" "Are you racist" and others that I couldn't make out. One guy actually started crying about how I was going to burn in hell. Actually crying tears and sobbing...
That must be the quote about drinking from your own cistern and eating of your own fruit. YUK!! Think 'll stick to the grocery store for my nourishment.
@M0US3P0T4TO I think the issue is whether or not you tell them just to tell them, or if you tell them because they were curious. What you're doing right is giving them an honest answer from your perspective, I'm not sure if telling them it's "bullshit" is the most practical way to stimulate critical thinking though, which in my opinion is a much more important factor than whether or not one subscribe to any deity.
I'm so damn happy to live in Finland. Never indoctrinated to any religion, just naturally Atheistic with no effort or stuggle at all.
Secular countries are the paradise on earth.
It is great to find like minded people. Freethinking People, giving their children the greatest gift in life. To be able to think for themselves and question everything. Keep up the good work.
I was in the japan earfhquake. Not a single prayer was of any use to us, it was the countless hours of hard labor from those of us that didnt get swallowed by the devastation, that helped.
I absolutely agree with the caller who said "teach your kids to question EVERYTHING.....INCLUDING YOU!"
When people apologise for asking too many questions (like in games and stuff) I always tell them:
"Don't ever feel sorry for asking questions....asking questions is the smartest thing any of us can do. Not answering questions is the dumbest."
Its one reason I get angry when I see parents tell their kids to stop asking so many questions. They SHOULD be asking questions!!!
My father is a Jewish Atheist, my mom is an atheist from a Catholic family, and to top it all off my uncle (through marriage to my aunt) is an atheist from a Muslim family. I learned about religion from the outside looking in. All I saw was contradiction and stories with nothing to back it up any one claim. Now I'm teaching my son about religion in the same 3rd party fashion. You'd be surprised how mixing religious ideas nuetralizes them all at the same time.
This was such an insightful, compelling podcast. I think it is tremendously encouraging to see people respecting and raising children to critically think for themselves and encourage them to do so. Autumn is such a bright young lady and its teenagers like herself that will make for a better future for us. I think some of our callers brought very interesting insights to the debate, and Lonna was really one of them. I salute these people!
As an atheist, I always said I'd educate my children, tell the truth and teach them the facts, and allow them to choose for themselves. But what I discovered was that, in educating them and offering them the truth and the facts, I was raising atheists.
And now I'm the mother of 5 atheists, who will more than likely go on to raise their own free thinking non believers. What a wonderful cycle.
good for you may all your young ones go on to achieve all that they can with the tools you have given them I,m sure they will
I think this was the best TTA podcast so far.
As a grandmother of a child that is being raised as a JW, I only have a short time to help my Grandchildren to develop Critical Thinking Skills. They are 3 and 5. They like to hear stories about when I was a child, so we play a game. I tell them a story and they guess if it's the truth or not. Then we discuss why. I also encourage them to tell me stories. Even the 3 year old can now formulate interesting stories. They always preface it with the words" this is a story"
This is such a magnificent show :) Thank you so much for your work, please keep it up! Internet is killing religion, humanity will be free from organised superstition. And this world will be so much brighter and happier place for it.
I was so excited when I saw what this podcast was going to be covering. Great show with wonderful callers. Thanks so much for this!
Thanks for the mention of the quake at the beginning of the show. I, thankfully, live in Saitama prefecture, which was only hit with a sizable portion of the original quake and is far enough inland that the tsunami was not a danger. Still, I spend much of my 11th, helping people get in touch with their loved ones to let them know they are alright and trying to see if I can get a hold of others for family members living overseas. Yesterday I went into work to clean up the office space
one of the best podcasts yet, and a great subject.
I agree with you on the point of prayer, Seth. Since becoming an atheist, I have become increasingly irritated with the idea of prayer to "help" those in distress. Whenever my family prays for people who are going through hard times I want to jump out of my seat and shout "WELL DON'T JUST SIT THERE! DO SOMETHING TO ACTUALLY HELP THEM!"
I've a 6 month old son and I'm already thinking about this. I'm a Buddhist myself, but I'll be raising my child mostly secular with Asian philosophy and values. If the topic of religion ever comes up (and I know it will, because my brother is raising his child Christian), We'll go study them all together. We'll talk to an Imam, read the vedas, attend a church etc together. We'll discus them afterwards and test them on science, reason and history. A great way to spend time with your kid, educati
@CybershamanX Bryan, I personally really appreciate your courage and want to thank you for taking the time to call, wait in line to go on air for so long and telling us your story. Thank you!
Great podcast. Being in Indiana & dealing with my 16 yr old daughter's religious friends is challenging. I heard my daughter telling one of her proselytizing friends that "god" is just Santa Claus for adults. The next time I saw that friend's mom she asked my about that incident. I told her we're not religious but she insisted that we go to church together so we could get saved. I told her "thanks but I don't believe in ANY gods since reading the bible". Haven't seen that friend since.
I was studying Japanese at my local college and i remember the very words that got me to help, they shake me to my core today.
i was watching to news and i saw this little 4-5 maybe 6 year old girls say;
Onee-san wa doko desu ka?
literally: Where is my older sister
After that her mother took the child in her arms and held her close. The news went on but that image was forever engraved in me. I couldn't sit still anymore
Stop praying and start making a real difference.
This podcast had un unusually high number of excellent callers and a great guest as well. Certainly put some things into perspective, in case I ever want kids.
You don't have to "sit it out", as you say. I have no guilt about privately talking to children of religious parents and playfully asking them questions that will prompt them to think for themselves. Children don't really belong to their parents, and they don't belong to me, but they are OUR future. They are individuals. I don't intend to hold my tongue around children simply because they live under someone else's roof. Stand up for THEIR individuality. Don't be afraid to influence them.
This was an extremely incredible podcast!
I'm a born again atheist. Was raised in the LDS church. I have two boys and have no intention of raising them in any religion. But I have to admit, I'm terrified to raise them as free thinkers. I think if I had been raised the same way I would be fine with it but the uncertainty is killing me. However, I will not subject my kids to lies and myths to control them. Wish me luck everyone!!
I agree with your statement that the world is not simply black and white all the time and there are all those different shades of grey and color. That is why telling a child there definitely is not a God is telling the child an absolute , black or white statement that can cause the child to be very confused. Atheism is much better suited for adults than small children.
I love being an atheist. It is the most amazing feeling in the world. I have never truly felt free until I became an atheist. Atheism and freedom are synonymous
the first six minutes of this show are eye opening
i was a secular homeschooler and i'm an atheist now. I was actually part of 4 different clubs. It was crazy how busy I was as a kid.
My brother and I were both homeschooled secularly for a couple years. We're both in college now and I'm not having any social problems, we were both in and out of public schools though. According to my homeschooling schedule, I had an hour of prayer and an hour of bible study every day. I actually pretended to be religious so that the school board wouldn't question my schedule and let me have "prayer and worship" time every day which I would usually use to see my boyfriend and slack off.
Thanks. Even tough I'm nowhere near having children, given that I've only just started university, I'm defibnitely planning to have some, and i have really been thinking about things like this... thank you, you've been an inspiration and given me some ideas.
Oh God please do not have children you would be a horrible parent
Contin.
Educational for the both of us, teaching him to do fair research by examing all sides. My child will also have freedom in any religion he wishes to attend (as long it's not extreme or radical) but he'll won't get freedom in science, reason and history. Facts remain facts.
Really great show today Seth. I don't have any kids but this has given me alot to think about for the future. :) Thanks alot.
I love that. Just tell them the truth and let them have fun! Once again, I really really like that idea.
i got stuck in a homeless shelter and there was one particular person who had decided to sit next to us one day and that was ok she tried to play games with my kids, that was ok, then she decided to start in on religion, specifically "god's love" and this started to confuse my kids who thought this person was just distracting them from their lunch. i asked her to move away and leave us alone, she decided to target us. she took it on herself to try to talk to my kids every time she could(more)
As far as the "Wishing upon a star" comment by our South African caller, we want our kids to be free thinkers but we also want them to be kids and have an imagination and creativity and be able to play pretend. But we also have to instil the difference between reality and fantasy. To this day my favourite books are fantasy books but I can still enjoy them as an atheist because I KNOW they'r fake and I simply find them fun and enjoyable.
Just had my first "somebody preaching to me" moment today, never actually thought it would happen to me, but it made me feel so unbelievably uncomfortable. I am an atheist, but I'm only 19 and only recently did I truly realize I'm an atheist. I'm half swedish and canadian and have lived in both countries and religion has never really been too much in my face. But today, I'm riding in the car with my swedish uncle and we happen to drive by the church I was baptized in (continued)
Great podcast!
One of my biggest pet peeves is watching a parent talking to their young children about religion, and/or how God controls the weather, or God does this and that.... Let the child grow up to make up his own mind! Honestly!!!!
And furthermore, teach your children science, and the facts! Kids just need to learn to think for themselves!!
How can you let the kid think for himself yet at the same time shove your damn science down their throat!? Fuck you
Also this dude's prodcast was horrible
He'll know what you're doing and if he approves of it, he'll help you regardless of whether or not you ask him to change his plan, because ultimately that's what you're asking Him for.
Wow, my heart is breaking for caller at 1:15:00 ....we all need a reminder that children are fragile...it's easy to forget but so important that we don't.
that first caller was a great help... and kids love magic. I have told my son I don't believe in god and frighteningly he went to my view amazingly fast, which as you can imagine was the last thing I wanted. I just left it saying how clever he was and that people saying something was true did not mean it was.
Really great episode. Thumbs up!
I know, because I used to be one, that Christians believe "The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective." (James 5:16). But I think the most appropriate verse for this kind of thing is James 2:16 "If one of you says to them, 'Go in peace, be warm and well fed.' but does nothing about their physical needs. What good is it?"
We want children within the next 5 years so I've been thinking about this topic a lot recently. C0nc0rdance recently made an excellent video on this topic. My parents ignored the topic of religion; it was a non-issue in our house. I understand this position, and when religion finally dies out, this will be the appropriate treatment. Unfortunately, religion is still a powerful force in this world, and we must give religion its due respect or else we will fall victim. Great show.
As the last caller, I just want everyone to know that I almost had a breakdown "on air"... I wrote about it in my latest blog post (see my RUclips profile...)
Other than that, awesome show and I'm hooked! See everyone in the chat room next time! :)
Loved this!
You're actually agreeing with me, as I stated that there is Christianity present there. What I meant by godforsakenness is god forsaking them, not that they are areligious or atheist.
Also, notice how miracle claims, especially medical ones, tend to always come from places with good quality of life.
continued..
After that my aunt & uncle treated him much better. My cousin no longer had the fear of going to hell or felt like he was sick because who he is. I live with my brother & his family. Him & his wife are atheist/agnostic & are raising their kids to think critically. My 10 yr old niece already thinks it's completely insane to believe in a religion.
My parents never taught me anything relating to religion, and I think it was a mistake, because I fell prey to a religious nut of a teacher right when I went to school. It took me 20 years to finally escape the clutches of theistic indoctrination. I think learning to question every claim (and every claimant) is important, but so is, as Dennett says, teaching the facts about as many religions as possible. Knowledge and skepticism are the keys to freedom of thought.
If they know Santa isn't real you can still do the whole Santa thing and make it a sort of game rather than trying to make them believe he is real. If they know he isn't real but treat it more like a fun thing to do then they are less likely to believe other things are real. Good job. I really like that idea.
LOVE the "Bill Walton" hippie voice!!! -- made my day!
@QualityQman It is fear of the unknown that makes people susceptible to religions (fear of death, the thought of ever-lasting afterlife, etc - These are mortal hooks they use to snare their followers)... Teach your boys to think for themselves. Embrace the unknown. Use it as an opportunity to learn. Teach them the importance to question everything. Including their parents. If they challenge you, have evidence to back it up.
I agree, God does (in some, perhaps not all cases) provide assistance to those who haven't asked for it. But whether or not he approves of the action you're doing isn't the only thing to consider. The I/thou relationship which prayer strengthens is itself a good thing, and if God always helped people prayer or not, then people would be misled into thinking they don't need God's assistance. God helps people only when it's good for them. Sometimes it's better for them to do it on their own.
@stiimuli
Your sceptical edge gave me a little smile. :)
The game is called Dragons of Atlantis and it's an evony clone - a facebook game. None of the discussion happened in text, it was only over comms so unless someone else was recording it, there's no record. Either way, I doubt the producers of the game would care much either way.
As I said, I'm hardly broken up about being kicked but it was just a bit of a culture shock. I've heard tales like this from American Atheists before but never
and then headed down to city hall to help stock trucks with supplies (blankets, potable water, kerosene for heaters, non-perishable food) that was being sent up to Fukushima before finally getting some sleep last night. If it wasn't for my job, I'd probably be on one of those trucks myself. It was a surreal 2 days. No amount of preparation can really... prepare you for a disaster like this and Japan is among the most (if not THE most) prepared country for these kinds of disasters.
Very true... people feel that some do not get what they deserve in their lives whether it be punishment or reward.. so they form an idea of god because they feel that they can move on because it is in "God's hands" .
... shouted down for another ten minutes or so before the officers of the guild pulled me into a private room.
I was basically told that they were an 'easy going' guild who wanted to be open to families and people who didn't appreciate my 'extremist' views. They told me I really couldn't be trusted not to make people uncomfortable with my 'hateful rhetoric'. The fact that I wouldn't pray for a good thing, or just pretend to, meant I was a severe, hatefilled militant and I needed to leave.
Yes, prayer is irrational and doesn't do anything, but many Christians believe prayer may supplement the effects of action. So they do indeed both pray and act.
I wanted to make my facebook status: "Prayer is an action that makes the useless feel useful. Donate to Japan, DO things to actually help them. Quit sitting around hoping and feeling like you're doing something. You want to help? Get off your knees and physically help these people-- or at least donate." I couldn't do it though. I'm just so tired of arguing at this point.
I always hoped you would talk about this.
You hit the nail on the head ....cop out !!!!!!!
I haven't produced any children. I do have an adult stepson and I'm completely up-front with him about my views as a skeptic and an atheist.
I have a ten-year-old granddaughter (daughter of the adult-stepson) and I'm more circumspect with her, because of her age. I confine myself to questions, such as "How do you know?" and "How do they know?" or sometimes simply laughing when a religious/spiritual/superstitious belief is mentioned.
continued) and they were good christian people. and after a while i asked the "prayer collector" to pray for her, not me, i explained to my kids that it was because of her pushyness and inability to allow others their thing. "judge not les ye be judged" thing
You didn't mention how Dave Silverman is president of the American Atheists, did you? It's quite an honor to have him on the phone there.
I am a Dad and my little guy will be able to make up his own mind.
@hldemi I should have clarified; Agnosticism/Gnosticism refers to the level of knowledge the individual proclaims, whereas Atheism/Theism/Deism refers to individual belief. It has been under some dispute on what atheism actually entails - whether it's simply a disbelief in God(s), or whether it involves the denial of God(s)' existence.
I think newborns fall under the category of irreligious more than theist/atheist, since those entail actually having a belief as opposed to being undecided.
May have been linked already, but well worth going through the Foundation Beyond Belief's podcast "Parenting Within Reason"
I'm going to check those books out. I'd like to better my explanation of death and loss. Maybe they'll have that included? Thanks for posting.
I would be extraordinarily cautious about the home-schooling. I wasn’t home schooled. I’m a public-school graduate, but I’m still completely unprepared for the real world. In social situations of any sort, I’m completely lost.
Mainly, it’s because my parents are abusive and the rest of my extended family is complicit and I count myself incredibly fortunate that I wasn’t home schooled or it would be worse.
"I don't know Grandpa, I just want your ice-cream." Awesome!!
@gemkid85 the more you say that exact message, to masses and masses of people.... The more you say this thing to all people, the better off this world will be.
The early reference to the salvation army raises an interesting point: although I admire the work they do, I cant help but think that, (being a religious organisation), they're doing it for the wrong, or misguided, reasons.
Im not fully sure of my stance on the topic, I'd love to hear others veiws.
continued) finally, she ended up in the lunch room shortly after a sermon where i had explained that these people who were sharing their ideas with us and we will have lunch too. she was griping at the fact that her own children had been removed from her care and went on more about how correct she was and how persecuted she was and finally, in front of a group of other people, "please shut up and leave my family alone." there were other people in the lunch room, they sided with me (more)
just a note on the camp thing im a program assistant at a girl scout camp which for those of you who dont know is in fact a christian association which make me kind of sad really its not all the prevalent but still noticeable we sing a hal-fassed vague prayer at the end of the day and we sing different fun little graces before meals we dont exclude girls of different regions and ive never hear anybody mention god but an all girls atheist camp sounds pretty cool i dunno sounded like a neat idea
@hldemi I think 'irreligious' is a better definition of those who are born. Agnosticism strictly refers to knowledge, not belief.
So... You refer to us as your people?
Ha ha. That made me chuckle.
Great podcast. Something I have been thinking about myself for a while now. Great points that is only fair to the child. Makes me think about the important thing to me, if there were no religions or indoctrination, where would we be now? Probably in a world of peace and happiness.
@mkwatson92 The people who do works, going out to help people by repairing or reconstructing, or supplying food or supplies, they're NOT the people who are criticised, but the people who pray INSTEAD of doing actions.
Prayer on its own does nothing.
your laugh is awesome !
I work as a preschool teacher at a local preschool that receives state funding. I love the kids but there is something that bothers me and that is they force the children (ages 3-4) to pray at every meal. All the kids say "Thank you for our food...Amen". It bothers me so much!
The exorcism sounds like a good theme!
@TheThinkingAtheist Why not? As a Christian, prayer is more than just asking God for things. It's about fellowship. I wouldn't NOT pray; even as I act.
(This is Amy, by the way. Gary just introduced me to your Podcast. It's good to hear your voice again; even if I don't agree with a lot of what you're saying.)
My question was an honest one. Why that assumption? Is that because that's what many see? Is that their perception of Christians?
@pakleglia This is so very true. So many people are cheated out of help, and so many helpers are cheated out of gratitude when all the responsibility and credit gets heaped on "God".
Whoa; praise God, I didn't know that.....excellent..
I sincerely wish that was the case, but reality shows that most of those Christians who truly need help are left with no response whatsoever. I know people have to take care of themselves but there comes a time when you really need a hand, and thus far, the only hand I've seen is the human hand, either making it worse or better.
“Why should I give you the rest of my ice cream?”
“Because Jesus said to share.”
“Well then how come YOU didn’t share?”
I love the idea of teaching magic tricks to kids to teach them to look beyond the surface.
... I felt so fucking bad for that man there at the end... respect man... respect...
Wow the part of making up superstitions really relate me. When i was young me and few of my friends made up our own religion, with sacrifises of bugs and all the other stuff. I think this really made me realize the sillyness of religion. And i remember we started with 3 friends and it ended up with 10 or 11 people.
I just got kicked out of my gaming guild because I wouldn't pray for Japan.
We have a vent server, and when the first reports came in about the initial quake, one of the guys, an american based in Sri Lanka, burst into the room where we were talking and said 'Hey, there's a massive earthquake in Japan. Let's all pray.'
Literally just that.
So I moved to another vent room and left them too it. After about five minutes two of the guys used vent controls to pull me back into the room...
I think you should expose your child to religion.
Atleast the major ones. Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hindu.
Take them to religious ceremonies, and services, and learn about them yourself, so you can answer questions about they might ask about the religions beliefs, and origins.
Read to them of the holy books if you can stand to. Nothing will keep them away from religion like the horror stories in those books.
when my 5 year old questioned about "santa" and i showed her that website from the history channel about the history of the character, the answer is, yes, santa clause is real, it ties to a saint and became a ledgend.
As a fellow atheist homeschooler, it drives me nuts hearing the go to criticisms. School does not healthfully socialize children. Possibly, the biggest indoctrination we deal with is public education.
The Baskin robbins story is the right way.... teach them to think, that's how my dad did it, he got an atheist (me) and a bible thumper (my sister) out of it. It's the only fair way as the "weaker minds" are going to go whatever way they are steered anyway.
@ASquared007
I agree, that was my whole point
But how does one "teach patience" when we're surrounded by a society that is all about first impressions and what's the next new thing?
We live in a fastpaced society while trying to teach the kids to take it easy
If you want a child that thinks for themselves and questions what others say is to show thier gullability to them. Tell them something outragous and make sure they realize that they believed it for a second. they will learn that not everything is correct that people tell them.
My family is trying to indoctrinate my 6yr old and I'm the only intervention. Thanks for the podcast...
@Cyelon
When you buy insurance, you're not hoping that you get into an accident. They wanted to make sure it WOULDN'T call atheists bad instead of being blind about it
Personally, when I become a parent, I will want to raise him/her as a free-thinking Chrstian.
To bad I did not check the topic before the cast. I had some interesting points to mention on this subject.
... and started grilling meabout why I left. I said to them that I was an atheist and I wasn't going to pray with them, so I left the room so I didn't disturb them and so I didn't have to listen to them.
Various different things were said on top of eachother at that point:
"You're INHUMAN."
"Why do you hate Japan?"
"Don't you care?"
"Are you racist"
and others that I couldn't make out. One guy actually started crying about how I was going to burn in hell. Actually crying tears and sobbing...
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."
That must be the quote about drinking from your own cistern and eating of your own fruit. YUK!! Think 'll stick to the grocery store for my nourishment.
@M0US3P0T4TO I think the issue is whether or not you tell them just to tell them, or if you tell them because they were curious. What you're doing right is giving them an honest answer from your perspective, I'm not sure if telling them it's "bullshit" is the most practical way to stimulate critical thinking though, which in my opinion is a much more important factor than whether or not one subscribe to any deity.