Are Maple Leafs different with Core 4 still intact?| OverDrive - Hour 1 - 07/01/2024
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Bryan Hayes, Jamie McLennan and Jason Strudwick are joined by TSN Hockey and MSG Sabres analyst Martin Biron to discuss the opening of free agency, Steven Stamkos’ arrival in Nashville, the tax benefit in certain markets and the impact of it, the Maple Leafs additions on the opening day of free agency and was it underwhelming that the core of the team wasn’t changed, how the bottom 4 teams in the Atlantic get over the 4 division powerhouses and more. They are also joined by TSN Hockey Insider Darren Dreger to discuss the Edmonton Oilers GM search, Joel Quenneville and Stan Bowman’s reinstatements, the divorce between the Tampa Bay Lightning and Steven Stamkos and could this potentially catch the eye of Penguins ownership on how they deal with Sidney Crosby’s future in Pittsburgh and more.
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Noodles is exactly right. There shouldn't be advantages for teams based on the tax rate of where they're located. They need to either base it on net pay or give teams with higher tax rates a higher cap. Many teams already have an advantage based on geography, giving more advantages for teams will turn the NHL into the MLB where the good free agents only go to one of a small handful of teams.
Just scrap the cap already! Tax the teams that spend over 120, money goes to poor teams. It's getting ridiculous, leafs should have 7 forwards making 7-15 million each.
@@TheFranchiseLive That would end up being counter productive. MLB has this and they have a bunch of teams who don't try to win because they make money off of the luxury tax payments from other teams. You also would have every big name free agent going to one of a few teams. Too many cons for that system.
@@TheFranchiseLiveso once all those 7-15 m players are gone who goes to the teams who don’t have that type of money to start? You only want change if it benefits your team, you could care less about the rest of the league
Same shit, different year. Looking forward to having all the same conversations about this team next May.
Its one thing to pay them top dollar if they deliver under pressure. Leafs core 4 don't deliver under pressure.
struddy looking about as excited as i'am watching this ! 🤣🤣🤣
Leaf's still have the rotten core four. One has to go and we know who if you want change. The new additions are extra beef to make up for the sissy four.
I’d say 2 of them this year and JT next year.
@@baohoailyJT is fine if he signs on a sweetheart deal and goes down to 3C
@@people3865 yes a league minimum deal. As reparations for performing like a scrub in the playoffs for $11M. .6 points per game what value!!!
@@baohoaily Could say that about any of them
@@people3865 in total agreement. But too bad it’s real life and not NHL 24. I’d trade all of them including nostrils.
This team is not better. It is the same with some different background players. Lipstick on a pig! Can't run it back with core 4
I think the experience of the players being signed is important too even though I have some minor qualms with the contracts. Stolarz- Cup champ, OEL- cup champ, Tanev- feeeening for a cup lol, Matt Murray (lol) - Cup champ. It at least shows to me that there's a focus on winners being signed, however their current form is.
I think they are different Tanev will be the best right shot D man the leafs have had in like 10 years. Adding OEL gives them the exact guy that can help fill in on the power play and is still a good defender. The leafs didn’t add anything that moves the needle they just added the players they were missing via free agency and have some defensive depth
Zadorov would have been the big shift Leafs needed a guy who backs it up physically intimidation wise the money is also a statement to the lockeroom to empower a guy like that to take over as a leader than just having another 4th line depth enforcer
Because if Tanev goes down the RHD still looks thin. I already trust McCabe, Reilly is okay, Benoit has grown a bit, you can get an LHD for cheap next year when Tavares is off the books, but the RHD market is always slim for particular style of play+size
@@NotExplicableHe really wouldn't be. Big Z is a bottom pairing guy that's been given too much money
Yes! Yes! Yes! I've been discussing this for 2-3 years now and finally, finally, be it someone on a podcast, or analyst on a sports show, or who ever, finally someone brings up the point that with the new CBA, all teams, including those in states or cities with additional or higher taxes, need to have the same cap room and spending power as teams that reside in states with no taxes, call it a dynamic salary cap it you will. I honestly say, F*ck waiting on the new CBA, enact that new rule now! 💯🙌👏 PS Struddy is a f*cking fool for opposing this genius and necessary proposal.
The salary cap was brought in to make an equal playing field for everyone. Teams in tax exempt states have a clear as day competitive advantage. I really hope they look into it ASAP.
Struddy is out of his mind acting like it's just ebbs and flows. A 31+ yr drought isn't an ebb and flow.
Totally agree. It isn't that hard to do and would level the playing field.
@@nostradavus5051or you can just have your players not be so greedy. Matthews Marner Tavares and Nylander all need to make 10.9 M plus? Why? What have they done to deserve any of that money. They’re paying overpriced contracts for the hope that the same group with a different supporting cast will somehow overcome the core issues that have plagued the leafs for years. Fix your own team before talking about how to fix the rest of the league buddy
@@zachlesk5685 nah, essentially with tax exemption those teams have millions extra to spend, because they can offer less to a player than the would make on paper elsewhere, but in actuality, with no taxes, they put more in their pocket. It’s a definitive advantage.
Different?? No I would bet they still are capable of losing in the first round!
The Leafs sure aren't sufficiently different from the team that in May lost its opening-round playoff series. Keeping the AM34-Marner-Nylander-Morgan Rielly-Tavares quintet together is taking up way too much cap space, and I see no reason not to more at a minimum 1 or more of Marner, Rielly and Tavares. The bottom-6 forward group remains a mess but whether Treliving will even tinker with that group still remains TBD. The Leafs IMO to SOME degree addressed their blueline and goaltending but whether either will hold up in the regular season, then (should they see playoff action) postseason, still remains TBD.
Still lots of time to make changes.
@@Eazy-Rider I sure hope Treliving ain't done making changes because man is the bottom-6 forward group quite poor quality.
Thay need to get rid of tavares and Marner. Period.
Of members of the AM34-Marner-Nylander-Morgan Rielly-Tavares quintet I look forward to seeing Marner and Tavares traded. Whether Treliving will trade either still remains TBD.
Strudel is the voice of wisdom. When the panel actually includes their special guest in the discussion... 😅
yea brilliant. also doesnt understand taxes
Struddy doesn't want the salary cap to be made fair because... it's too hard for him to understand? Maybe one too many hits to the head for him
It's not complicated to have the cap be in relation to your take home salary after taxes, it's easier actually.
Because all any player needs to do then is say what their willing to play for, and it would be equal all across the board.
If the cap was calculated by what you made after taxes it would become a non issue.
For example if a player says they want 10m per after taxes, that would be 10m in a tax free state.
The same player would make 12.5m in a state that charged 25% for tax purposes, leaving the player with 10m, which would make the playing field the same as if he were playing in a tax free state.
That same player, if he made 10m and played for a team in which the state tax was 40% would be signed for 14m per season and take home 10m after taxes, which would be an even playing field as a non taxed state.
There is nothing complicated about making the salary cap be reflective of each individual player's salary after taxes.
That argument doesn't make any sense. Every player in the NHL knows exactly how much money they'll take home after taxes, that's why they have agents.
So by having the salary cap be reflective of each individual player's salary after taxes would be the fairest result for all involved, and you would never have to hear this excuse being used ever again as a reason why players don't like to sign in certain markets, which would be a huge relief in my opinion.
It's pretty much the same for everyone in life, if your offered the same job but in different areas, one where's there's no tax, and one where your going to be taxed 40%, you already know exactly where you want to work. Where you'd take home 40% more at the end of the day, naturally.
NHL player's feel the same way, especially when your talking about millions of dollars, and having the salary cap be reflective of each individual player's salary after taxes would fix that, and remove that problem from the equation, and at the next CBA it's time to do so.
Well said my friend
Not sure players make as big of a deal as we do. Plus, keep in mind that only the top players can be concerned about that. Everyone else just wants more money or a better family situation while playing in the NHL. So, the cap will probably go up unevenly for a few teams who take advantage of this.
hey whytee's,
Leafs grabbed the wrong D-man. They finally address the third weakness on this team (2nd being no heart. 1st being no leadership - their captain has done nothing but lose his entire career and continues to be as soft as a twinkie filling with ZERO urgency to win), and focus on defense - but grabbed the wrong guys. The D-guys that went to Washington, New Jersey, and Seattle were the right guys. Under the wire defensive defenseman who play smart. Oliver is a career -118 in (+/-), yikes! ..and 32 years old after two long cup run seasons. Last year my mighty Islanders went and got D-man Bortuzzo (3 years older) for nothing from the Blues, and he was a career +10. Tanov will be like Ryu and Springer after 2 seasons, dead contract of an old tired vet. Tanov is a trade deadline deal guy, not a 6 year deal FA guy. hahahaha. Good luck - the B's got better, TB's replacement Guenzel makes TB slightly better, the scrapy Islanders have no problem beating the Leafs, don't forget about Carolina and the Rangers - and if you can get to the finals here come the Preds - so did the Leafs do enough to beat the B's or TB or NYI? Nope, they picked the wrong guys.
The Definition of Insanity (The Core 4) . Leafs are headed back to the golf course again next year! Dream on Leaf fans!! The core 4 don't have what it takes in the playoffs to win, as they always disappear!! Regular season points by the core 4 mean nothing!! The core 4 lack the drive to succeed in playoffs!
then penguins are going to be really hard to watch next year. For crosby, he's got cups, and trophies and gold medals. The desire to be competitive is obvious but how important is legacy versus a couple years to maybe get another cup, especially after having his career fostered by Lemieux
He should come to Colorado and be our 2c.
didnt those same four say cup or bust like 2 years ago joke roster
Players should want more parity since when Canadian teams go far in the playoffs the cap is impacted favourably.
It’s simple, net pay, continue paying in US funds.
Marner will likely be moved mid season….needs to regain his value. Until then it’s a wait and see approach….maybe Berube wakes the 4 up in the playoffs.
I'd like to believe ANY of Marner, Morgan Rielly and Tavares will be moved, but I'll believe that has happened after it actually HAS. Discussion about the Leafs starts at the 10:40 mark of the OverDrive excerpt but in response to Bryan Hayes' claim about the flat cap, Kyle Dubas could've capped signings of each member of the AM34-Marner-Nylander-Morgan Rielly-Tavares quintet at a per-season cap hit of US$4 million, NOT US$10 million or more. Just imagine how much more playoff success the Leafs might've had had Dubas, rather than having done what he did, did what he SHOULD have done so the Leafs could've back THEN added more DEPTH.
Without Matthews, Marner or Nylander, they would not even have been in the playoffs.
@johnsummerhill8323, the Leafs’ points %s, in the last 5 seasons, are mixed, with one of, for the season of:
- 2019-20, via 81 points over 70 games, 57.86 rounded to the nearest 0.01 percentage point
- 2020-21, via 77 points over 56 games, 68.75
- 2021-22, with 115 points over 82 games, 70.12
- 2022-23, with 111 points over 82 games, 67.68
- 2023-24, with 102 points over 82 games, 62.20
The Leafs needed help, towards the end of last regular season, from opponents of the Bolts to clinch a top-three divisional spot as the Leafs had ended off that portion of the schedule with five straight losses. As much as I hope that this season the Leafs will make it to a conference final, I don’t have much confidence they will barring significant changes to the bottom-six forward group, with none of Ryan Reaves, David Kampf, Calle Jarnkrok, Pontus Holmberg and Connor Dewar exactly confidence-inspiring. Trading Marner and 1 or more of Tavares, Reaves, Jarnkrok, Dewar, Holmberg and Kampf would, if executed well, provide that desperately needed shake up of that bottom six group. Otherwise, I see the leafs eventually ending up having a season very much like what last season the Toronto Raptors, having gone 25-57, including three overtime losses, after last preseason, had. The Raptors, during the last playoff-type game they played (in April 2023 at Scotiabank Arena against the Chicago Bulls), got just
8 of their 105 points from their bench. In a league in which is ideal to put up at at least 110 points per game, that performance wasn’t good enough. Even worse is that the Raptors blew a near-20-point lead to lose that game. At least the NBA has a soft salary cab, although even in an NHL that has a hard one, good teams find Waze to make sure their rosters are sufficiently deep to go on playoff runs. This past postseason it’s no accident the Dallas Stars, NY Rangers, Florida Panthers and Edmonton Oilers ended up as conference finalists while the very flawed Leafs and Winnipeg Jets ended up being eliminated in the opening round.
How much should the Leafs pay to buy Marner's NMC? Keeping in mind that the amount goes against the cap.
No. The structure is still flawed. Tanev replaces Muzzin's effectiveness only he's a right shot and Muzzin never got em past the 1st round. Goaltending is still a question until we get a better look at Stolz, they haven't addressed playoff scoring.
Anyone who’s played high-end hockey knows that if you have strong defense, it opens up a lot more space and opportunity for the forwards to score. If the forwards are trying to cover for poor defense (as the Leafs had to do this season), it limits their offensive capability.
@@profdave2861What about the other 7 seasons? D takes "some" pressure off the forwards (who still have defensive responsibilities), especially during a power play and PK. But is it enough? If they don't finish top 8 in the league in points, I'll view that as another blown season, and a waste of a trade deadline assets should they add a rental.
Another wasted season in coming in Leaf land. 🙄
As long as Tavares is captain they won’t win a thing
U will eat your words leafs are going to the ECF this season
He is still producing
@@topperharley7892 producing
For 11 million no way
He’s no leader the Marchand incident proved that
@@modernhistory8978 plan the parade 🤣🤣
@@modernhistory8978
I was 12 once
Struddy may think it’s crazy to propose variations to cap based on location, but the reality is that Canada has FAR higher taxes than almost all American states. Canadian teams are penalized when trying to compete for players and they have no choice but to overpay players to get them. Bettman will fight tooth and nail to avoid any adjustments because he wants to keep the cup in the States.
First of all there's no speed up the middle just feels like the leafs are running it back would have liked if they would have signed lomberg he would have been great for the buds.
Still lots of time for changes to be made.
Biron dropped them🥊😁🇨🇦
I think you're going to be underwhelmed with the "tax advantage" being fixed. Taxes are based on where the games are played, so right away that means it only actually impacts 50% of their salary, not the whole number, and further you're thinking of places like California that have like 12% tax rates, there are plenty of states with only 5-6% max tax rate that they can play in too, the difference between 5-6% and 0% then only saves you like 250k a year on a 10 MILLION contract, it's less of tax free being an incentive and more like places with high taxes being a deterrent, so this pretty much only would benefit a handful of cities with crazy high tax rates
The Core 4 guarantees a 100+ season and the playoffs. Berube will be told to back off the Core once Matthews gets irked with him.
Next year will show how serious MLSE is about winning the Cup. At least 5 million of Tavare's contract hit will come off and the cap will actually go up for the Leafs (Matthews and Nylander ate up this year's increase). The question will be will the Leafs resign Marner or uses the salary savings to after a couple of playoff performers. I think it will depend on the revenue numbers this year.
Oilers do get Skinner Leafs miss out again, so it could be Skinner to Skinner to McJesus goal! Love FA amazing to see all these moves, will Crosby stay in Pittsburgh I would have loved to see Montreal take a big punt on Crosby!
That could get really confusing. The players pay tax in whatever state they play, this counts on the road. Only 41 games get taxed at the rate of where your home team is located. The other 41 get taxed on all road locations. So every individual teams schedule has different tax implications. It’s not as simple as you guys make it sound
Try mathews playing with 2 players each making 6 million on a line.and nylqnder playing with 2 six million dollar players..see if those 2 lines are better then with jarnkrok or. Whatever ahl million dollar player mcmann..they put on top line A and B lol
Leafs are a different team way better
loll
Berube is a minor league coach...like he should have been as a player...he has a minor league brain...i am not trying to insult him...he might even agree if he is honest...i like the additions the Leafs have made...if the Leafs do break through next season it will be inspite of him not because of him...
Marner scores 24 goals at best.and tavaras sucks now.those 2 or 4 players each at 5.5 to 6 million or 7 mil players taking a discount....i know my decision all day long.
Every year is the same. Its all about exciting offensive stars scoring goals and selling merchandise. Tight defense, grit and premier goaltending are secondary. And that ga.e plan always catches up to them in April
No the 4 guys don’t score in the playoffs. Marner is utterly useless when hitting season starts. Nylander isn’t reliable, and Tavares isn’t even noticeable.
Much better defensively a bit worse offensively but we’re not done yet . I reckon liligren will be gone with his $3 mill and hopefully we get a top 6 forward
If the Leafs would have had a top notch goal tender last year they might have won the Stanley Cup...so keeping the core group together is as good of an idea as it isn't...
Sure you’re paying higher taxes in TO vs FL, but what about Al the endorsement deals and exposure players get in TO vs FL?
No they are no different. Treliving isn't the guy to fix the problems on this team either. If anything he might make them worse with terrible contracts that are to long like the Reeves and now Tanev one.
It’s still not a level playing field, and as a fan I want everyone to have the same chance from the start, if I was Seattle & Utah I’d be pissed in the advantage Vegas got at the start, hence they have a Cup and went to another final 😏
Leaf fans are the biggest clowns out there 🤣🤣 every year is different and the one this team will choke again keep dreaming leaf fans
Hakanpaa is soft and slow. These guys apparently have never really watched him.
Florida had their plumbers show up in playoffs. Get ours some minutes and let them know their roles
Parade is back on for next spring
Marner has a contract year and is technically auditioning for his next team. He will give it his all this year.
Fans do care who is on the team. If toronto can get another 5 mil player, the toronto fan will care about the tax situation
20 year old 😂Slavy 🇨🇦
No.
Why Struddy so crusty?
Net vs gross is not complicated…. Its exactly the same from fan’s perspective for understanding. That is exactly what needs to be done.
No. Next subject. Why talk so long on one topic?
Slap in the face to the Leafs who were inquiring about Quenneville only to have him available two months later....
Guaranteed that Gary Bettman purposely held off Quennville’s reinstatement until after the Leaf’s hired someone else. Bettman does not want the cup to leave the US.
Without a doubt... the Leafs are better on July 1st at 11pm than they were on June 30th. They now have a great set of 7 defensemen and a solid tandem goalie situation with Murray as the third goalie. I think Robertson might get traded for some 2025 Draft Picks. Maybe Liljegren as well.
The rules of the cap shouldn't be created based on the financial literacy of the average fan. You don't need to know how that works any more than you need to know how a jet engine works on the Plane you ride to a vacation.
It does affect the league in a profound way that needs to be fixed. Clear advantage to certain teams to the tune of 20% more cap space us huge.
I’m a leafs fan… I want to hear about salary cap reform
It could be that Treliving & Berube have a plan to get through this year to see how they do & figure out Marner & Tavares walking to free up that $22 Mil in new cap space for 2-3 new players at C & RW who are good talent. What's next year's UFA market look like right now? Could speak a lot to what their hidden plans are. NOT a bad idea.
Get rid of no-trade and no-move clauses. Players shouldn't have that right in my opinion.
Teams don't have to give them out.
You cannot have enough good hockey guys✔🇨🇦😁
The Leafs are handcuffed with the insane Tavares contract. I think he’s a great player but the number was way too high for a long term contract, and it’s now really hurting the team. The Leafs will need to be ruthless with him on any extension, same as Tampa was with Stamkos.
DIFFERENT SEASON ......... SAME SHIT !!!
The Net salary is interesting until you get into trades from state to state, then crossing the border. this is gonna be really crazy tough to figure out. maybe the Cap moves given the team's location.
6 years to Tanev is hilarious.
Happy Canada day 💰🇨🇦😄🔥
get a life...move on already
you need a tough emotional leader as your captain to win in playoffs. the leafs have the complete opposite
The mushy core is getting older and mushier every year
Core still has to score in the playoffs.
Did you ever think maybe they can with a big punishing defence?
@Joeblow12349 Maybe but were not there yet. A punishing defense takes forwards coming back and playing brutal two-way hockey. ie Marner won't. He won't body check, pick up his player, a trailer, no one, just circles around and waits for the puck. So does Nylander. Until this core quits playing soft, our upgraded D will effect nothing significant. As for offense, behavior is language. Bc all four were taken out of the playoffs by $1-2 million players.
@@harveywinkerbean1193 🥱
Soft cap!
They’ve made some D changes which is about all the leafs can do.
Let’s stop visiting the core four.
We all know JT 1 more year.
Mitch sign him/ then trade him or not and he walks.
The other (3) are here unless they ask to be moved , they have all the power.
End of discussion Hayes.
Especially if you’ve been listening to the GM the last few weeks.
The best thing we can do is wait till next April..
No
Haekenpae is hos you say his name
and "h-o-w" is how you spell "how"
OH CANADA 🍁!!!!
is anyone shocked that the odonkey bolted and didn't do the show like noodles and Hayes stayed in studio to work! Typical but I LOVE THE SHOW WITHOUT HIM!!
He has 48 cans of Coors to down and he's only half way there
In the post you have like 3 guys hounding Matthews, Nylander is the only one with heart, Marner get's shell shocked from getting hit or ptsd playing the corner. Then you have the captain, that is there for 1 game and missing the rest. When Domi was playing better than Mitch and John you know you had a problem. Now you add likely OEL and Tanev your now on hospital watch and LTIR watch.
That’s a stretch marner had one bad playoff and he’s got no heart . I bet you he’s great this year with Berube in playoffs
Marner played all 7 playoff games on an ankle he finished rehabbing 3 weeks after the Leafs last game. Seems to me a couple of the other players didn't even play all 7 games.
I love canada
Leafs out first round
Just ban NTCs
its owners/management that hand them out. you gonna ban them from negotiating?
Great to see Marty on!
Struddy calm down 😁✔🇨🇦🔥
Great question 😁✔🇨🇦
Feel so good about this team 😂don't let the noise in✔🇨🇦
Ever talk about anything but the fucking leafs?
Yes, they do talk about anything not related to Leafs on their RUclips videos that doesn’t have the words “Maple Leafs” in their title.
Just thought I’d point out the obvious.
Nashville walked in the casino a pulled the hammer🔥🇨🇦🇺🇸💰
they have never had a finisher like Marchesault - let alone Stamkos . It should give them a dimension that they have never had before .
We need a tax break for our country 🔥😂✔🇨🇦
Would love to see a Liljegren & Kampf trade for Roy or Pesce or Montour
Woll will be in competition to🔥😁🇨🇦
NO. They got worse who's going to win games in net. Got way to old on the backend
Better defence/goal = fewer first minute/last minute and quick giveaway goals.
I think there's like 12 laughing🔥😂🇨🇦
Hayes, don't even try and talk about Edmonton, I know you were hoping they lost all those free agents. 24/25 lineup :
Skinner McDavid Hyman
Holloway Draisaitl Arvidsson
McLeod RNH Brown
Kane Henrique Janmark
Ekholm Bouchard
Nurse Broberg
Kulak Ceci/Stetcher
That's the best roster going into next season.
There's like 12 days in a million seconds and 31 years in a billion 😄🔥💰🇨🇦🇺🇸
😂a week ago thanks almost forgot this fact🇨🇦🇺🇸
It DOES matter you guys are just too narrow sited to see the root of the problem, the defense has been terrible for years.. you CANNOT expect ANYONE to battle in the D-Zone for 1min plus just to get it out of the D-Zone and still have gas in the tank for offense. The average shift is 35 seconds for a reason, give these guys a bunch of defensemen who can actually play defense and get the puck out of the D-Zone in 20 seconds or less and watch them fly around the O-Zone with all kinds of energy. The defense has been the issue all along, you ALL been saying it for years and WE can see it with our own eyes on tv and in stats.. the forwards are NOT the problem!
Noodles is on to something with the Net vs Gross salary cap if Canada wants to stay relevant
Struddy can go pound salt with his “deal with it” approach to tax advantage. Its nonsense. This HAS to be fixed.
Payton Manning won a super bowl with the colts😁🇨🇦🇺🇸
Better defense same Ole over rated playoff offense that will put a dagger in the hearts of Leaf fans.
Tampa bay lightning effect 🔥⚡🇨🇦🇺🇸😂
As is now BOS will do the exact same thing as last year to TML but in less games !