Some Woods Are not Suitable For Wheels | Engels Coach Shop
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- Wood wheels require quality materials to be trustworthy. As the saying goes, "A horse without good legs is worthless." Similar for carriage and wheel building. Without good materials, the end result is pretty worthless. This is the examination of the materials provided to build these Holt logging arch wheels.
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#wheelwright #caterpillar #stagecoach
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It was mighty thoughtful of them to give you all of that firewood. I'm sure it'll be appreciated in the winter.
Agreed, its all self split ready to go
Bit harsh.
At least a dozen pallets hidden in there 😉
Wow I thought it was just me - but I am glad you had the same option :)
@@philmenzies2477
@@robertfrost4086 Why did he put them through the planner?
That's some really nice firewood there. Checked, cracked, split, etc just to name a few. Thank-you Mrs. Engels for those beautiful opening shots. The autumn colors, the clear streams & lakes and so much more.
It doesn't bode well when the dunnage is in better shape than the lumber.
Never easy when picking up someone else’s choices. The owner should be very grateful that he has someone with your experience to keep his project on the right track. 😊
I was surprised you went through the thickness planer as you could see the timber wasn’t up to the task.
Thanks again.
I visited Laws in Bishop, Ca. last weekend and was so stoked to see the Borax wagons big as life in front of me. They look even more amazing up close as they do in your videos. I didn't know they were there and found them in their display toward the end of the visit. A big thanks for keeping that small part of our history out here alive.
Benjamin, Did you do any trout fishing? Bishop is in the center of the greatest trout fishing in California.
@@andyhastings5950 No, I stopped fishing many years ago due to lack of skill. ;) I talked to a fisherman on Hot Creek who had a great day though. The fly fishing out there has to be amazing.
@@Fireballsocal I'm no spring chicken at 70+, but I'm going to get a reservation with a guide who knows our limitations. I learned from another Grey Beard that they are available.
Back to the past. In 1998 I spent six weeks closing a mill near Bishop. And had heard how great the fishing was. We subsequently started to fish nearly every evening. Barbless hooks... I was using an ultralight combo that also had a fly reel. I decided to try it one evening. I looked in a small wooden box of Flys my dad gave me well over 20 yes before. Picked what I thought wood work...First drift and bang an 18" naturally stream born Brownie. Biggest fish of the trip. Hopefully his great genes are still being past down.
@@andyhastings5950 I'm not gonna wish you good luck as I'm superstitious. haha. Have a blast though. I have wandered all over the Eastern Sierras and still have so much to see. So many beautiful places there.
When you peeled the wrap off those pallets, I thought to myself, "Geez, Dave's got a lot of firewood there!"
That tree in your intro and outro is quite stunning!
I have been in your shoes so many times over owner bought materials. I look forward to seeing you and your client work out the issues. I hope and pray for the best outcome.
Jeep body shell looks to have a side fuel filler, so maybe Willys MC rather than WW2. I remember seeing the hood sitting in the shop.
The jack you use on the steam bender looks like an early jeep jack too. Don't think we don't recognise these things. 8-)
I never knew the "Dave Shop" obstacle course was as challenging as that !
Love your show !
Excited to see another wagon build, I have worked on cars my whole life and it fascinates me how the prior transportation was built. I like the build process so I can see how they handled the joinery on parts of the wagon that were going to take the enormous forces hauling heavy loads over rough ground. This library is truly going to be a national treasure and I thank you for deciding to share it with us.
I too am amazed at the engineering that went into those conveyances. How they got across 3,000 miles of wilderness to the West is incredible, but they did!
Very interesting as Catepillar is a major player in Construction equipment and up until recently was headquartered in Peoria, Illinois. My uncle worked for them for over 30 years and his son also worked there. Thanks for the history lesson and as always, thanks for sharing your world with us. God bless you and Mrs. Engels.
Harmon Eberhard, a president of Caterpillar, married and moved to house (rich side) directly across the street (poor side) from my mother- in-law. If i remember, he started working for Holt running errands for the drafting room in 1916 or 17 during WWI. He got assigned to merger team between Holt & Best. Harmon was a really nice guy, authentic, truthful, ethical and a solid engineer. We would get in a corner of the room at dinners & talk as long as the women folk permitted. C.L. Best had the better design and superior engine, but dealing with Best was difficult. Holt had the $$, better engineering and superior manufacturing. The early years of Caterpillar had many sparks due Best wanting it his way & $$ vs Holt wanting products & growth. Many more pages about Harmon could and should be written before memory floats away, but we are here for wheels.
Wheels: i peppered Harmon with questions about the Holt wheels. He
Harmon - continued: Harmon said he had fun adding radii to the wheel hub to stop side loading cracks & changing the heat treat process to increase yield. But by the time he made changes, wheels were only a special order repair part. So he considered the work wasted as the improvements added little to the company value.
Wonderful episode again Mr and Mrs Engels thank you for sharing. God bless and see you next week :)
Can’t wait to watch the two new/old projects hit the work shop. Will probably watch every episode as I do now.
When I see a box full of random wagon parts as you had at the end, all I can think is the description "a who did it and ran" as my father-in-law used to say. That it comes out after you are done, as a complete wagon is amazing.
I'm impressed you passed most of those bolts through your planer! The whole lot seemed like a waste of your time. Thanks for another great video!
Thanks from a Stocktonian, you got the history lesson down pat.
Old Benjamin was quite the inventor. His biggest claim to fame in the Stockton area was the tracked tractor that was used in farming the peat soil of our Delta Islands. His second and probably even greater invention of the Side Hill harvester. This was a very early project and was powered initially by horses. This harvester opened up hundreds of thousands of acres in hilly country for profitable grain production.
Boy, the wind shakes in that stuff-Fraxinius Rejectus!
It’s a real pain in the butt to start a big difficult project only to find you were sent unusable materials! I’ve sent back 100s of boards that wouldn’t have lasted long enough. Ash is strong, but from just seeing the cracks and knots, to get enough straight grain usable pieces, this bulk ain’t got it! The mud wagon it it. ❤️ from your buddy to the south. Thanxz
Hey Dave...I see that Jeep under that tarp...
Smart move with them 10 foot wheels...
Mud wagon...Yay!
Very interesting. When I was a small boy, there was a ranch next door and one of the sons left to work in Hollywood as a Wheelwright. This was in the 1950's so there was a big need for wheelwrights with all of the western movies and TV shows going on. Last I heard, he was still teaching the skill to new people in classes near Escondido and he was in his 80's. He also learned and taught blacksmithing. He learned all of this from men who did this for a living around 1900 so it was pretty much authentic training from first hand experts. Too bad most of this skill has been lost.
Read your good comment. I carpentered for a little while & started building Driftboats & there were a few that really helped me & some very tight lipped. Looks like your ex neighbor ran into some good people down there & passed some of that craft on to the next generation
If I understand right, the Caterpillar name started out as a model of tracked vehicle sold by Holt / Best, and the logo on these early units was the name arranged to look like a caterpillar!
Yep, that's basically what I remember of the company history.
I am 80+, yes I remember the wriggly writing. Greetings from Australia.
Looks like you're going to need a spare tank of L.P. for the fork lift.
Hub weight with out spokes and rivets blew my mind.
Very talented driving on that Alliance.
I did 20 years on fork lift in tight spaces and your skills really shine.
Always a pleasure. Thanks for having us
If I lived closer, I'd beg for an apprenticeship! I can only dream of learning an amazing and specific trade such as this from someone as knowledgeable as you! Fantastic work sir!!
Great job Dave , alot of that wood isn't good for much . Good call and hope things are worked out with the guy you are under contract too. Looks like you'll stay busy all winter. Stay safe and keep up the great videos and have fun with them too. Fred.
Well you just helped fill up my winter viewing schedule!
I enjoy the practicality of modern equipment alongside of hand tools and old craftsmanship.
One day I plan to come to there and I hope to see his shop
It's great to see your jeep inside. I hope you can get to it soon.
I am excited to see your work on these two projects in the coming months
Dave, how do you normally go about ordering your lumber? Is it always project specific? Would be very interested in hearing/seeing how you do your calculations on what you need.
Keep up the good work!
for sure !
You're definitely right about rejecting much of that lumber. It doesn't matter how good the quality of the work is if the quality of the material is bad.
the mud wagon looks like another fire wood pile you're going to save, looking forward to seeing the steps
Hello from Las Vegas Nevada
Some how I was unsubsidized, I'm back
GOD BLESS YOU AND YOUR FAMILY
GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
I remember those Winters at Malmstrom AFB in Great Falls Montana. This San Diego boy went there in 1976, the coldest Winter recorded in 100 years! I was a Firefighter. I never warmed up. Slept in my parka! Now I'm in Northwestern New Mexico. I never learned huh? The North/South wind is a blowin' hard right now. Still cant get warm. 😅
Wow! I just found your channel. Why have I not found you before now? Your content is right up my alley. I will be going back and watching prior videos! 🤠 🏜️🌵 🇺🇲 New Subscriber 👍👍👍
Welcome!
I will be very interested to see the mud wagon being rebuilt.
The Willys is back in the shop!!
I love to learn from someone that knows what he is doing. I thought to myself would I use that wood if it were the size I used to turn on the lathe I would sure have to pressure glue it for the work I do. I am so glad you are rejecting it instead of trying to use bad wood. Great idea for fire wood.
I can't wait to see the dodged hub wheels built!
That will be very interesting to see!
looking forward to a couple more amazing projects Dave, thanks for sharing.
I suspect they might have used a spokeshave - it's in the name, you know.
@@nicolek4076 Maybe you posted a reply to the wrong comment?
@@poorfesor You're right. Someone was asking how spokes were shaped "back in the day". Thanks for the nudge.
Thanks to you Mr. Engel !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree, you got a lot of nice fire wood. I am not a grader of wood but that stuff was poor quality from the start. I have cherry in my neck of the woods and I always wonder if that kind of wood would make a good box for a wagon. We also have some popular and iron wood as well. But again I am not a wheelwright like you.
Good luck on the projects
Love the Warning Chime for the Door height! Those forks make quick work of a door frame or o/h door. Some of those (half) big ones looked like firewood to me! Good choice to Stop Work Order this project. Those are massive Hubs. Tapered Roller Bearings?
@8:45 I might not know what the after work project under the tarp is but it gives me the Willys.
😉😉
Before Ben Holt moved to California, he and his family operated a business selling hardwoods in New England.
Ben was sent to California to set up a business outlet for the families hardwoods products.
The rest, as they say, is history.
Once again thanks for the video.
Hello Dave,
You are very fortunate to have access to all the old true wrought iron wagon tires out in back of your shop. Anything in todays iron,( less that 100 years old) is most likely mild steel and not as easy to work with.
Dave uses new iron a lot of the time, and doesn't seem to have any issues with it. It rolls fine, and welds very well. But, I agree with you on how much "old" iron he has.
Forward planning or spinning plates is a great skill but sometimes the best laid plans etc conspire to bite your nether regions! Keep up the good work.
I was watchin you unwrap those 2 piles of oak I presume & was thinkin you must have bought it pretty cheap w/all the checks cracks & splits. I used to build driftboats for a fishing outfitter On Middle Fork Salmon in Idaho and guide for him w/ my boat . That river will test a boat. Building those boats required quality material . My boats held up because they were built with good material the right way. Your reputation is only as good as your last boat. I can see from your videos that you build quality into your projects for your customers, It looks like you have a couple years work on customers orders when you can get to it. You have a well earned Rep. Thanks for the video. Sorry I been so windy. I used to carpenter a little. Thanks for sharing your expertise.
Jeep is in the shop . 🍻🇨🇦👨🏭
Look forward to seeing you work on that flatfender! Best channel on RUclips
As always. You are very interesting to listen to
Yes some persons really don’t know about wood , as for myself most of it were firewood if not all .
What I do to prevent cracking is I put my planks , beams or whole tree in my lake for 2 years , hater is very cold and mostly alway in shadow , the wood suck the water and chase the sap then I use my sawmill and I let the wood air dry .
Enjoyed the video Dave. I thought as you were sorting through the material that there just wasn't very many good pieces that didn't have checks and splits. Thanks for the video. Y'all take care and God bless.
Looking forward to the new projects.
Hello Dave, Holt and Best both built combined harvesters. Tractors came along to replace the mules that pulled the harvesters. That's a simplified version.
It looks to me that the wood in question is California Black Oak. I have milled a bunch in 4/4 but have had very limited success with anything thicker. I suspect that Holt imported eastern red oak or possibly white oak for use in these wheels. Just my opinion.
Looks like you are outgrowing your shop. Also, love the old school 4runner!
Kindling wood for sure ja those hubs are humongous Dave have a day love from TEXAS
Thanks Dave
Good call on the wood quality...I was twitching seeing all the defects!
Presente: Cordial Saludo desde Zapopan Jalisco Mx. Siempre Pendiente.
I don't know anything about wood, but when I watched you examine that lumber, I said to myself..."that wood looks terrible...!". I wasn't surprised at all you rejected it!
To know your craft well its knowing what NOT to do.. thanks for letting us follow along..cheers
And thanks for you, Dave.
I found a guy over at AT Restoration who does your thing, but on furniture. Between the two of you, I am filling my brain with more knowledge than I will ever be able to use. But that's the GOOD thing, no?
If you don't already follow, look up Thomas Johnson. He also restores furniture.
Very good show.
Works for me. I have a soft spot for mud wagons anyway. Hey, do you follow Squatch253? He's working on an early Caterpillar and has located a cab for it. The cab is built very similarly to many trade carriages I've seen, like delivery wagons and horse drawn school busses. It might be interesting to see what knowledge the pair of you could share on that cab.
DAVE YOU ARE THE MAN, GREAT VIDEO, SEE YOU WHEN...
Buenos días. Siempre es un gusto ver la pasión que usted tiene en su trabajo, el talento y su magnificas herramientas, ¡Felicidades!
Perhaps it's been discussed in an earlier video, but if not I would appreciate a discussion of what species of wood are suitable for wheels. Historically there has been a lot of discussion on the Model T Ford forums regarding the merits of Hickory (high ultimate strength AND a high work of fracture) vs. Oak (high ultimate strength, but quite a bit lower work of fracture, tends to shatter if overloaded).
So the Deacon inquired of the village folk
Where he could find the strongest oak,
That couldn't be split nor bent nor broke,-
That was for spokes and floor and sills;
He sent for lancewood to make the thills;
The crossbars were ash, from the straightest trees;
The panels of white-wood, that cuts like cheese,
But lasts like iron for things like these;
The hubs of logs from the “Settler's ellum,”
Last of its timber,-they couldn't sell 'em,-
...... excerpted from THE WONDERFUL “ONE-HOSS-SHAY”
By Oliver Wendell Holmes
I, for one, would like to see Dave make a video where he sits by the woodstove in a smoking jacket and reads the poem.
Thanks for sharing
All starts with the material. I have had to dig a lot to get to do some projects at the hardwood specialty outlets for small projects. How many times more difficult it is on your scale.
Had no idea, but so interesting to hear of the simple beginnings of what today is a modern global corporation like CAT.
First time I have seen the beginning of one of your restorations, although I use that very loosely, wagons. I would assume the hardware will be the only part salvageable from the bin on the stage coach. At least I have to take your word on what it is or should I say was.
It looks like you have the body of a CJ5 under the tarp. Thanks very much for sharing.
If you've never seen one of those large Holt tree arches they are pretty impressive pieces of equipment.
Thanks for the name.
You are absolutely correct to say the least. The sawyer should be switched with a good hickory stick. Barely meets the requirements for firewood.
The work you do never ceases to amaze me, those hubs you were weighing, can you still buy those as new castings or were those original antique parts, I was just wondering?
Old originals.
WEll I was looking at the quality of those pieces of wood as you were handling them and I have on clue on what to do with them. but even I would have rejected them. A small hair line crack is one thing. but those splits and cracks were about ready to split in half on their own, let alone be under stresss in a build/ part. Be interesting to hear the outcome of that one. But still and interesting video to see how you handle and shuffle things around. thanks for sharing ! ECF
Expert craftsmanship deserves better quality of wood for the project. "No use putting lipstick on a pig." The finish project carries your name.
Very interesting didn’t have any idea those hubs weighed that much be careful with your back on those hubs and hope you get it sorted out great project
Love your videos thank you keep up the good work
Looking forward to the jeep project
Dave, what species was that lumber you had to reject? Is one type of lumber better than others for wheels and such, or would you be able to choose from different types as long as it is sound?
A job worth doing is worth doing right.
Interesting as always . Great video 👍🇬🇧
Agree about your wood inspection. I would not use most of it for much less structural projects. Thanks.
All but a few pieces looked like firewood to me. I'm surprised you even planed it!
That thing under the tarp looks like the tub for a CJ. I believe a CJ-2A.
Silas Overpack made the first big wheels in Michigan in 1875. It was made for a farmer who was doing some logging.
Yeah, it looks like the lumber should be somewhat closer to furniture-grade. Fearing it won't survive assembly is the biggest red flag I've heard of! lol
Could that wood have been in better shape if it were dried more slowly or evenly? Was it just random log (chunks) that someone milled and never really seasoned?
The reclaimed guardrail posts in your last video looked better than some of that wood
That mud wagon might do with a spot of touch-up paint... :O
looking forward to that steel under the tarp
Thank you. I doubt you have any trouble sleeping, except for cramps.
Thanks.
Dave. I’m catching up on some episodes I missed. Those hubs are monsters. What’s the diameter of the finished wheel. Be careful. That’s a lot of force when they’re moving about. Can’t wait to see them put together. Will the mud wagon be plain or will it carry some intricate details , as do most of your work.
I'm a bit surprised that you didn't take the time to look over the shipment when you first received it, might take some time negotiating for the replacement lumber that you should have received in the first place, these many months later...
Drying and knots. All about quality control.
I read that in Sweden, old wheelmakers used Sorbus intermedia (density 0,6) for the centerpiece. Any thoughts on that?
That looks like good firewood .