@llucero94 Lulu is bad but at least has meat on the bone for Lou Reed fans. Not Metallica fans, but that's why the album is named after Lou Reed and Metallica, and not the other way around. It's a Lou Reed album and for that, I kinda like it.
@8:56 “the point is Katy clearly couldn’t work with Dr. Luke now, especially not while trying to brand herself publicly as a progressive feminist” TODDSTRADAMUS STRIKES AGAIN
The trial ended earlier this year, Kesha was let go from Luke’s contract due to him clearly not treating her well. But Luke was also found not guilty. Luke is not a rapist, but that doesn’t mean he’s a good person either.
@@SawdustMusic-rd8mj just because someone doesn't lose a trial doesn't mean they could or could not be guilty? especially in a case as rape where evidence is very cruical to be collected in the moments afterwards? i understand he was not found guilty but you never know...
@@venusx5012 fair enough, Luke seems like a pretty uncompationite person regardless. I’ve seen articles about Dr. Luke repeatedly body shaming multiple artists he’s worked with.
I remember being at a gay wedding in 2019 and the DJ played “Swish Swish” and literally everybody left the dance floor. Everybody. It was so wild to see a Katy Perry song clear a dance floor of gays.
It’s also the only song from this album I had any prior experience with since I remember it got a decent amount of radio play so it was often playing on car rides so I at least had the hook stuck in my year even if I had otherwise long tuned out the radio and was more listening to anime OSTs or whatever else I was listening to on my phone or something LOL
And the irony is that it's the song from Witness she was trying to sell as a gay anthem (hence her performing it with the drag queens). But by 2019 the gays had left Katy for Taylor. 😂😅
Paula by Robin Thicke: Gets a Trainwreckord episode 5 years after release Witness by Katy Perry: Gets a Trainwreckord episode 5 years after release Man of the Woods by Justin Timberlake: Sweats nervously Edit: I was one year off but I don't care. The prophecy has been fulfilled.
I remember exactly three things about the Witness era. 1. Liking Chained to the Rhythm 2. Being genuinely grossed out by the Bon Appetite video 3. Thinking that striped coat she wore on SNL made her look like Beetlejuice
@@jtlovescodelyoko I'm surprised Todd didn't mention that on like Day 2 of that stream, Taylor announced she was putting all her music back on streaming services, and you could tell Katy found out and was NOT happy the rest of the stream.
"She is a Marie Antoinette who fantasizes being Joan of Arc" is possibly the most accurate way to describe this era of Katy's career. Holy s**t it's so true it hurts!
@@KS-gh9ze How I'm I complaining?. I'm just stating what I feel. This album was plastic and empty. Katy may have had lovely and good natured ideas of change and equality but in the end it was all an artifice wrapped in nothingness. It's sad how forced it sounds, it's not the Katy we know and love. She takes many concepts from this and puts them in Smile, and they shine because it's earnest and has meaning to her as a person and an artist. Marie Antoinette and Joan of Arc had complex lives and yet culturally we will remember one as a wealthy noble woman who lavished in her rich lifestyle while her country suffered and the other one as a martyr who was betrayed by those who worshipped her not so long ago. Both of there downfalls came from patriarchal points of view, Marie didn't have much influence in political decisions and yet the public hated her, she has been remembered ever since as the "let them eat cake" airhead. Joan was named a witch and burned for her undying faith by the same people that were clamoring she was graced by God. Most people usually don't care about the actual history, symbols are easier to understand and remember.
Nah. She was more Imelda Marcos fantasizing about being Mother Theresa. A shallow vapid material obsessed money grubbing tool who is desperate to be seen as a self sacrificing compassionate thoughtful "woman of the people".
The fact that Katy went back to working with Dr. Luke feels like such a betrayal of everything she was trying to do with this album. I don’t see how she recovers at all from this. Witness wasn’t so bad that there didn’t feel like there was a chance of a comeback. Now we might as well be calling time of death.
Ehhhh. Honestly, if her new single was a banger, the Dr Rapist detail would be overlooked by most. That's the way it is, unfortunately. Her single being a flop makes it easier to focus on the detail of her joining up again with Dr Nonconsensual.
@@ooombasa5080 if it was one of her California Girls era songs maybe, but the fact she's still trying to use the girl power narrative for herself while working with him puts a giant spotlight on the whole thing
@@ooombasa5080It's not even the mediocrity of the song lyrics and melody. It's the hypocrisy behind the supposed message. 'I'm such a girl's girl that I collaborated with a producer that sexually abused my peer.'
Is it really a betrayal if the vessel for the message was a complete failure? If Katy wants to work with Dr. Luke, that's her own decision. Since he's the best producer for her, it's strictly business. The fallout of her recent single wasn't nearly as huge as Witness' failure. To call it the final nail in the coffin is a wild proclamation.
I think Katy Perry was the first artist that made me go "You know, I haven't heard from them in a while. Strange because I remember when they were one of the most popular people ever."
Katy referring to herself as "liberated" while looking like she's on the brink of tears is probably one of the most depressing things I've seen in a while.
Hell if I could ever understand these rich, famous people and their perception of being imprisoned. Rest of us out here worrying about putting food on our tables, going to jobs we don't like (if we're lucky enough to have one), and staring down the barrel of decades of grinding just to survive. Now we get to worry about potential nuclear wars again thanks to incompetent leadership (or malevolent, depending on your view) in the West.
The entertainment industry continually lies and says these women are liberated, but these women are just selling themselves to make money and call it liberation. It's all part of the same system.
@@drb4074 I mean from what I hear, fame isn't exactly all it's clamored up to be. You have constant public scrutiny, no privacy, and you have a facade to keep up to the public 24/7 unless they want them to eat them up. It's basically putting up a permeant act unable to truly be yourself or even human. ...Not that that's any worse than what you said but if anything I hope that at least provides some perspective on that matter so famous people problems with being imprisoned makes some kind of sense.
Really cool how Katy vaporized any ounce of sympathy that Todd mentions in the conclusion by deciding to work with Dr. Luke again. It's like she's obsessed with making bad decisions!
Dr luke was found innocent by the supreme court. She has every right to work with him. And that also proves how kesha lied that katy was also r@ped by luke along with gaga forced her to come out as a victim
Dr luke was found innocent by the supreme court. She has every right to work with him. And that also proves how kesha lied that katy was also r@ped by luke along with gaga forced her to come out as a victim
@@fattiesunite2288 Easy there, tiger. Yes, indeed the R@p3 charges weren't true but that doesn't mean he isn't a scumbag with a poor track record of how he treats the artists on his roster. Katy knows this and still works with him, despite striving to build a feminist persona.
@@fattiesunite2288 the same supreme court that is stacked with Trump appointed judges, one of which was very publicly accused of sexual assault himself, the same court that overturned Roe V Wade? We should trust them why?
My favorite part of the SNL performance is her yelling "Oh shit!" when the track & everyone else is saying "Offset," which is a member of Migos' signature. It shows that she had literally no idea what was going on...even on her own song.
I never noticed that before, its absolutely hilarious especially considering Offset is standing right next to her when she says it. I would pay money to see a transcript of his internal monologue at that moment.
@@joshuacoleman8000 I'm not a singer but I feel like it fits the meter? Or at the very least it's close enough a singer could make it fit. Weird that no one in Katy's orbit told her to change the line.
@@GamerTowerDX it sounds dumb tho. most of Katy's lyrics are cliches or metaphors, even at her most "personal" she's used shit like saving a message as draft or seeing double rainbows lmao
Strange to say, I think this should've been a rock opera. Think about it. A concept album where Katy plays a caricature of herself becoming aware of the evils of her industry and trying to be a hero and stop it, with a full, tragic narrative. It couldve worked better than just a bunch of songs.
I would love to see this. It could have started w Bon Appetit - where her hair is hacked off and she transforms. I loved tommy as a kid so I’d love to see more conceptual works like that.
I feel like Katy Perry's career is just so surreal because she really had some huge hits and then it just went to hell. Teenage Dream is still amazing.
your vid on Bisexuality + Katy Perry's late 2010s music schmacked me down like a tonne of bricks - and with no affect of shade or nonsense, thank you, quite informative for me in my early 30s lmao ^_^
Bon Appetit *could* have worked. Sexual cannibalism as a metaphor for what showbusiness does to young talent, especially young female talent, is so perfect that it all but writes itself. But it would take a very delicate hand to stick the landing. 'Witness' era Katy Perry does not have a delicate hand.
@@eamonndeane587 Or Gaga. She was not afraid to be disturbing. Katy's inability to act without making hundered goofy faces ruins it. Imagine this done with a singer who looks actually terrified throughout the video. Who is not afraid to look ugly. Not trying to look like adorable goofball (I mean, Katy cried when people did not like her woke haircut and started to grow it out immediatelly).
Reminds me of the weird video Bieber did for Yummy. Definitely feel like the are wanting to expose something but it doesn’t seem to translate to the public 100%
The way she looked and sounded when she said "but, you know, you'll still have some of that good old Katy Perry fluffy stuff that you love so much" sounded so miserable and self loathing, that I saw it in a movie about a pop star despairing about her vapid image overcoming her hidden depths i would have thought it was too on-the-nose.
And it’s crazy how she says it like it’s a choice for her to be either someone who talks about more serious issues or someone who makes fun summer jams. Yet it’s very much possible for both to be the case, for songs to be enjoyed for both the fun, exciting music while still having important things to say. Heck, Katy had already done it at least once in her career with Firework, which is an energetic, fun song you can enjoy on a dance floor and with friends, but still appreciate it for its empowering message. Lady GaGa also did it with Born This Way, an electrifying, easily danceable song that still carries an important message about self-love and acceptance. So with Katy seeming to indicate people are telling her that if she’s going in a sociopolitical direction, that she’d have to give the fun stuff up too, I just want to say that she can kill two birds with one stone in her music.
@@heymistercarter. I feel like maybe Katy was thinking too hard on it, like the more you overthink the message, the more fake and contrived the product ends up being.
Interestingly “Hey Ya” by Outkast was a song about the vacuousness of pop songs but it was cryptic enough to not insult anyone and had the hooks to distract people completely (ironically)
I'd say its more about the end of a relationship than anything else - but yeah, it does make lots of references to that too. The sincerity of Andre 3000's performance is what sells the show.
@@louisduarte8763eh I mean Marie Antoinette wasn't the most sympathetic character. She opposed every type of reform and lived a lavish life w/o much regard for the people She wasn't some powerless damsel
Yeah, that was stuck in my head the whole time watching the segment about Hey Hey Hey. Pretty ironic considering how different they were, but like you said, the path is important.
In Sweden we have a female feminist artist, I keep forgetting her name but some years ago she declared in articles and on stage how much she hates men because of various assaults against women at festivals and then right after that she went to Usa to work with Chris Brown. And even better is that the whole non religious feminist movement just refuses to protest religious oppression of women at all.
It’s hilarious to think that 10 years ago we considered Roar vs Applause as a battle of the pop divas, but nowadays Gaga is collecting songwriting awards and become an actress and Katy has become almost completely forgotten. It just really provides context to what you said about how she never really had a distinct direction and over the following decade it became apparent
plus how the albums the songs are from have been viewed - artpop is largely seen as being misunderstood by critics of its time while prism is almost entirely forgotten. legit one of my favourite songs rn is an artpop b side and i could not name a single b side from prism lmao
@@marvelousTUD mary jane holland! its not a masterpiece fair warning but i fucking adore it lol, i also enjoy donatella and swine but idk if they count as b sides
@@soldjaroffortun3if you have to listen to one Artpop b side, it’s Brooklyn nights. If you have to listen to one Gaga song, it’s probably also Brooklyn night. Other honourable mentions are: Princess die (live only, all studio version are fake), Partynauseous, Stache (Princess High). In an alternate universe, this b-side album would be the biggest event album that launched industrial EDM to new heights.
Katy: I'm progressive who believes that women should stop being seen as objects and we need to reduce harmful stereotypes in the industry. Also Katy: HAHA FAT WOMAN EAT BASKETBALL PLEASE LAUGH
Also Katy: wears revealling clothes to market herself on sex appeal and even has a song with fireworks coming out of her breasts. So I'm not surprised that no one takes her seriously when she says she wants to be serious and be against over sexualizing women. She made her career on it.
"Rich white female pop singer wants to get involved in politics and she clearly isn't equipped to do that so she just mostly makes it about her own personal drama" is now the premise of two different trainwreckords episodes.
This might be one of Todd's nicest Trainwreckords. The album's bad, but you can tell he really pities her. It's fitting considering Todd's complicated relationship with Katy over the last ten years. Todd discussed Katy so often, especially when she was a major pop star, even when her music was terrible. This feels like a fitting finale for all Todd's "Katy Perry files."
her music was never "terrible". stop. there's a reason why she sold so many records. her music is harmless and just plain fun. she's harmless. if i were in her place i would have completely lost it. to be so humiliated, made fun of, ridiculed, put down by peers and audience...honestly it's really sad. and she didn't really deserve all that. what has she actually done to warrant any of it, when you think about it?
Eh, Peacock still fits within her typical cheesy, somewhat juvenile type of sexuality. Sure, it’s a swear word technically, but any edginess is swiftly smothered by a corny-ass bird pun.
I think the problem with Katy Perry is that in the beginning she gave off a shallow bubbliness- like a warm bath. It ain't too deep, but it can be enjoyable. Then she tried to reinvent herself to 'get with the times' and that bathtub turned into a puddle.
It's like being in a hot tub for too long when the heat starts to get less and less comfortable. Then you look over and realize the jets are off but there are still bubbles...
yeah perry's biggest problem is her disdain for being offensive, ironic given that she burst onto the scene with a tongue in cheek song about casual girl-on-girl that got the conservatives up in arms and Ur So Gay, which got many liberals up in arm. Maybe because she experienced backlash for those things, she decided to make generic, inoffensive pop music. She's just done it for so long that she doesn't know how to not: even when she's trying to have a message, it's the most lukewarm neutral position she can take
It’s like when a rock band that is known for being fun like say a college rock band releases an album that they say is them going in a “deeper, more serious and more mature direction for the band”, absolute death knell that the songs are going to suck.
"The term Flop era was coined as a direct result of this album" That even transcended language barriors, in the latin american pop music fandom Witness is still widely used as a synonym of shame.
@@Tzilandi I saw someone recently say that "Dawn FM is going to be TheWeeknd's Witness" or something like that. That album is STILL widely known as a moment of shame in the pop fandom in general.
Honestly, go on r/popheads and a ton of pop music fans use “flop era” on a regular basis! Same with “witness era”, although rn Lorde’s Solar Power is gaining popularity in referring to an album that did nothing
In some alternate, arguably worse, universe, this episode is a One Hit Wonderland of I Kissed a Girl by Katy Perry. In the "did they deserve better?" section, Todd admits that he would have liked to hear more and this kind of music is a guilty pleasure of his. All without a hint of shame.
I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve watched this specific episode. Something about a modern pop star completely flopping through this kind of a record is so striking and interesting to learn about. Favorite Trainwreckords episode to date
The storytelling was very on point. If you’re interested, I recommend a channel called Pop Dissected and his video on why Witness was a commercial flop.
Same here. It makes me look forward to (whenever Todd will release it) the "Man of the Woods" episode. This episode is personal to me because Katy was a major star when I was in high school
for latin american fandoms it kind of coined a phrase similar to 'in your flop era',,, we say 'pasando la witness' which literally translates as 'going through your witness' , kind of..... we use it when something gives you second-hand embarrassment or 'cringe'.
Instead of the Hunger Games, she should have been inspired by Clueless. "I genuinely want to help people but I'm too rich and shallow to quite figure it out" is a decent hook for winning people over. Its clumsy instead of cringeworthy. And Taylor Swift fits the Tai role
@@Anomaly188 But to me, Katy Perry is far more genuine despite being shallow and ignorant than people like Taylor Swift. Honestly, I think that's probably because she became washed up so it kinda humanized her. As opposed to Taylor Swift who failed at "shade never made anyone else less gay". But yeah, she might not have self-awareness.
I think Todd is 100 % right about there being two kinds of pop star. Case in point: five years after they both had their flop eras around the same time, Taylor Swift is still huge while Katy Perry disappeared like Thanos had snapped his fingers.
Was reputation even a flop era? LWYMMD may not have had longevity of the 1989 singles, but it went #1, reputation sold 1 million in its first week, was the biggest album of 2018, and spawned the reputation Tour which went on to be the highest grossing tour of North America. I know people like to compare rep's era to 1989's negatively, but on reflection, reputation really was anything but a flop
@@jlo2715 Yes, you are absolutely right, but I think both things can be true at the same time. Reputation was not as universally beloved as 1989 and most non-Swifties seem to remember it as a petty album about celebrity feuds, when it's really anything but. Personally I adore reputation, but I really don't care for its singles, which I feel misrepresented what the album as a whole was about. Sadly, the singles are what most people remember, more than sales numbers, which goes a long way to explain reputation's.... well, reputation as Taylor's "flop era". I think of reputation as the inverse of the "delayed flop" that Todd talks about; it seemed to fizzle out pretty quickly at first but ended up being a success. I think it says a lot about Taylor's power that even the closest she's ever come to having a flop era was that successful.
@@idab9958 Hold up, cuz I think you're onto something. On reflection, the singles for reputation really did come and go honestly quicker than usual. End Game was what? The third single in November 2017 and it petered out maybe like early 2018 just a couple months after the album released. It wasn't until Delicate made its slow burn rise that there was a sense of a longevity single from the album, but you're right. Other than Delicate, the other actual big singles were arguably the worst off reputation, and of course, the gp will get their impression from the album from the big singles, and not the deep cuts.
The bit about Katy seemingly styling herself as an Effie Trinket is very insightful and quite telling. I love Effie as a character and honestly the persona fits what we know of Katy and how she seemed to see herself at the time, but it's also not an image that's going to carry a once-top-charting pop star anywhere but downward. Absolutely obsessed with the parallels.
The thing about Effie is that the audience new the "joke" was on her all the time and she could never see it. Is it true we always could see how shallow KP was and she never see it herself?
@@owenbloomfield1177 But she decided to change her image with Witness so it probably means that she's aware of it. If you look back at her discography you can always tell that there is something she is not content with. From her downsizing sexuality by occasionally inserting comedy to being an edgelord. Furthermore I do think "Chained to the rhythm" was not hypocritical but rather a very self loathing dissect of her own career. If anything, she's Effie, but the moment she gains awareness, readers find her less compelling.
Katy's Witness feels like an artist internalizing some of their most unjustified criticism and it comes off as just the saddest thing to watch... I hope she does feel pride in her work, even at its most sugary, because she should be able to without feeling guilty about it.
Fun fact: Katy Perry fans tried organizing a big event for the release of Woman's World recently in Mexico City, in the biggest monument of the city (El Angel de la Independencia) Only 12 people were there
She tried to get Womans World to play at Kamala Harris rallies. They smartly said no and got a Beyoncé song instead. Went from campaigning for a female presidental nominee to being shown the door by another.
@@LadyTylerBioRodriguez Katy Perry trying to make herself the face of the Harris campaign only to get blasted by a an onslaught of solid (brat) green force like it's the Kid's Choice awards all over again
I’ve previously called some artists “Firecracker artists” vs “campfire artists.” Some artists have amazing, impossible to ignore upward momentum culminating in an amazing burst of color and noise that brings joy to most everyone that sees it. And then they’re gone, to be replaced by a different firecracker. Some artists have a much smaller audience, but that audience will keep them alive quite a while longer, and appreciate them on a deeper level. Nothing wrong with either one, and it’s not a perfect dichotomy, but it seems to fit pretty well. Basically, would you rather have Katy Perry’s career, or James Taylor’s.
I LOVE that metaphor- it's honest without being derogatory. People like firecrackers and they like campfires. There's a place for both of them. Hats off to you sir!
@t b Um... I'm not the greatest fan of that man but... isn't he still selling millions of albums well into the 20th year of his career?! I don't see him fading though granted, I personally have abruptly stopped listening to him after the Kamikaze album.
So, uh, Katy Perry went from being raised in some kind of weird mormon cult, into being one of the worlds biggest pop stars with very little in between. Is it just me, or does this album kinda... really make sense given that fact? Have you ever met religious homeschool kids? Their relationship with humour is, a little goofy. They kinda, don't fully get it. Not to paint with too wide a brush, there's nothing wrong with being religious or being homeschooled or both, but when parents actively separate their kids from popular culture while feeding them aggressive religion, and then they get out into the rest of the world and just kind of have to figure it out, it's tough. Doing that, while being a pop star? I honestly don't know how KP is doing as well as she is. She should be applauded for that if nothing else. And maybe give her half a break if she does a goofy rap dance during the migos verse. Of course, when you're talking about a career, and a career based on spectacle and aesthetic over everything else, there's only so much of a break you can give someone. Oh well.
There is absolutely something wrong with being strictly homeschooled and religious. I'm not speaking as some angry atheist here, but its glaringly obvious that homeschooling is even worse to kids than the public school system.
@@ileutur6863 I mean, there are people that are homeschooled, and religious, but the religion is more or less reasonable and tolerant, and incidental to the homeschooling. If the reason you are homeschooled is "because" of religion, yeah, that's not a good sign. But there are reasons to be homeschooled, and most people are religious, so it stands to reason that there'd be, non toxic, or at least averagely toxic forms of religious & homeschooled.
I think Todd's theory about pre-flopping is bigger than just Katy Perry. You see the same thing in video games, where one game becomes a huge success, and a sequel is hastily shat out to capitalize on that, which ruins the franchise's reputation, leading to the third game doing poorly. Usually, the second game will sell well, despite being bad, and the third game will sell poorly, despite being not as bad.
That description could easily be applied to the Last Two Eidos Tomb Raider Games. Tomb Raider: The Angel Of Darkness gets the brunt of the Criticism that was more deserved for Tomb Raider Chronicles.
Watch dogs 2 comes to mind, the first one sucked hard but 2 was pretty good and genuinely fun in a goofy way but did not see the success that the first one did because of the rep of the first game.
@@chrisr1091 Really? Because I didn't buy Watch_Dogs 2 because the promo materials made me think that it was just oversaturated zoomer garbage with a bunch of insufferable kids as the principal cast.
I wonder if this part of Katy’s insecurity came from Dr. Luke. Kesha repeatedly said like Dr. Luke made her feel that she was nothing but a “dumb” and “fun” bimbo and shot down any attempt to show the world that she had more depth. I get the impression he makes Doja Cat feel the same way (see her speech she made when announcing she would quit music). Funny how Dr Luke repeatedly makes female artists feel like shit but he keeps getting nominated for Grammys.
I just need to acknowledge that, if you mute the actual song, the video for Bon Appetite is one of the most effective pieces of body horror I've seen in my life. The imagery at 18:17 of human flesh being stretched and torn like dough is so nightmarish it's almost beautiful.
I really think that might have been the point. I think she might have been deliberately trying to deconstruct the sexualisation of herself in her previous videos by literally depicting herself as an object for consumption, and taking things so far that it passed "sexy" and hit "body horror." ...The problem is that she's Katy Perry, so she ran face-first into Poe's Law. ...When you've built your career on your cheerfully tasteless image, how exactly do you make a video that's so tasteless and gross that it's immediately identifiable as a deconstruction of your old videos?
When you realise that this very un-sexy jam about sex followed Katy's attempt at being "Purposeful," you just have to laugh. Also, Fuck the Hunger Games movies.
If you think Elvis's legend would be what it is without his fall from grace and bleeding his heart out in vegas every night after his peak, then you're delusional. You're spot on about how her fall from grace has produced a fondness for her.
@@Skabanis No it isn't. Elvis was great, but he built his career on those before him. There are people who make solid music now, but won't reach the status of a pop culture icon because that's an incredibly uncommon thing to do.
Listen Mr Miracle, it may have added to his mystique and ubiquitousness, but he’d still be a household name for generations. It’s difficult to fathom today just how big he was
You missed the part where Taylor dropped her catalogue back on Spotify the day witness was supposed to release, 1989 even managed to outstream witness that week
@@rafikgermany26 I'm pretty sure it did, witness was number 1 with 180k album units and only had 18k streaming units which is very less for a number 1 Album
He hit the nail right on the head when he said that Katy's a pop star who fades away as soon as the hits stop coming. Even at the peak of her fame, she never seemed to draw public interest into her personal life. The fan bases of people like Taylor, Bieber, Gaga, etc. are obsessed with their every move and want to know every last detail of their lives off the stage, but Katy just seemed to be someone who people liked to hear on the radio and not think about a second more.
I feel like every mega successful act who debuted in the late 90's early 2000s will start to experience their commercial decline in this decade. It has already started for acts like Pink, Xtina, Britney and Alicia Keys This mirrors the 90's acts who all started declining in the 2010's people like Mariah, JLo,Shakira,Usher, Mary J Blige just to name a few. They are revered today by the strength of their fanbases but they aren't exactly selling the millions they did before. There seems to be a hidden rule, that every successful act has 10yrs to build a solid fanbase which will carry them for the rest of their career. Some artists are fortunate to have big enough fanbases that enable them to sell well enough to be a viable charting act even while in their commercial decline. KP I feel in her hit making career just didn't gather a big enough fan base to carry her through her 'purposeful pop' era and now I don't see a situation where she will ever be the chart juggernaut she once was. I do think Vegas is a good move for her she really made great light hearted pop songs.
Is it also possible to say that her fans simply grew up? While they may still be able to enjoy the songs they used to listen to, the newer releases no longer appeal to them as their tastes and preferences change as they mature.
"I don't expect anyone to be as fascinated with one rich white woman's self-loathing as I am." I dunno Todd, your "Cinemadonna" series did pretty well as far as I can tell.
That's a thriving market. Always has been. Almost as profitable as media that explores white mens' emotional turmoil. Frankly, it's probably racist that we care less about art where a WoC wallows in self-pity and torment. Come to think of it, there's probably a parallel you could draw between Katy Perry and Scarlett O'Hara, if you really, insistently wanted to.
It seems that, like Madonna, singing a song like "Chained to the Rhythm" where you call your own catalog of music 'shallow' seems to be nothing but a bullet to your own foot.
Both women are also completely oblivious to the fact that any of their attempts at tackling more serious subject matter are just steeped in ridiculous amounts of self-centeredness.
@@nah....6151 American life was a goddamn joke At least I can see how Katy may have felt remorse after making nothing but vapid shit all her career and deciding to correct it by making chained to the rhythm
The first real "flop era" of the modern pop landscape was Christina Aguilera's 'Bionic'. It is truly the blueprint of every flop era that followed and is legendary in the stan world.
THANK YOU. I was neither a fan, nor an anti-fan of Christina when that was released, but I even remember alllll the people (aka - online gays) just DUNKIN' on that album.
Maybe, but I think Witness' failure was the first one to break out of the stan world and reach even the general public's conscience. There isn't a Bionic version of Katy's SNL performance or the 24 hours "is math related to science" livestream. Like Todd said in the video, Witness might not have been the first flop... but it was the loudest.
Every album from Christina are so different.She had been successful for 3 albums with completely different styles but It also made her fan base not stable.Bionic was a great album but her last album Back to Basic was very retro very 50s 60s and suddenly to bionic.That’s a really big change.It flopped so hard that even Lotus outsold it.
I see a lot of comparisons between Witness and Gaga's Artpop, but what's really interesting to me is that while Artpop was also deemed a "flop," both fans and critics warmed up to it so much more as time went on. These days it's more hailed as a good album that was ahead of its time and severely misunderstood upon release. Meanwhile the consensus on Witness--that it's a bad album that flopped spectacularly--hasn't changed much in the years since its release. To me it really feels like Katy wanted to be like Gaga in the sense that she wanted to be viewed as multifaceted and creative while also having something important to say beneath it all. But she was unable to make it convincing due to the vapid popstar persona she had previously built for herself, and people were just not buying it. That "No cake under the frosting" line couldn't be more spot on. This is definitely my favorite Todd video to date. I'd die to get an Artpop retrospect from him especially with the album's 10 year anniversary happening this year.
@@Cooe. Nothing “hardcore” about admitting Gaga had more artistry, creativity and depth in her pinky finger than Katy Perry 😂 And im saying this as someone who enjoys Katy’s songs! But Lady Gaga was and IS still leagues ahead of Katy!
I feel like Artpop retrospective wouldn’t qualify for Trainwreckords. True, it was a pretty big flop at the time for Lady Gaga, but as you mentioned it garners a lot of respect today. And, simply put, Lady Gaga has been far too successful post-Artpop for it to be considered a Trainwreckord.
Another overlooked component of that dire 2017 SNL performance was the other song (Swish Swish) that she performed without Migos. They invited on the teenage kid who invented flossing (I think) and that was the only clip saw from the show for weeks after. Katy Perry, the as you put it “Mega Turbo Pop” Star with her glitzy outfits and production and hype… overshadowed by The Floss.
When you have a song/video that unintentionally spits on both Fatboy Slim ('Star 69') And the Bag Raiders ('Shooting Stars'), you probably need to just stop.
Yep, at that point I think we as Americans were living in such a state of complete disbelief at reality that backpack kid flossing on TV at SNL was just part the fever dream we were living in.
I’m kind of awestruck at how many levels Swish Swish failed on. Imagine failing to outdiss Bad Blood, failing to out flop Look What You Made Me Do, and failing to outchart both all in one day. That's astounding. Katy got into a fist fight, went for a gut punch only to trip and fall on her own face and then when she got up, saw that Taylor had fired a cannon into her own face and turned that into a viral video. Katy just was not able to compete on any level.
The video is a testament to how badly the video for Irresistible by Fall Out Boy failed. It had many of the same elements to Swish Swish (memes, sport, lazy humour) but evidently wasn’t popular enough to have warned her not to do an equally terrible video.
@@ArgoBargo what Joel P said. commercially it sold well, but critically it was panned and it was the beginning of Taylor's most reviled era of her career, her shallow "bad girl" era. It also didn't help that the entire album was mid at best and followed 1989, which had 2 of the biggest hits of her career
This feels like a story ark from "Bojack Horseman" to be honest. Almost as if at some point an overweight talking horse is gonna jump on stage and start a monologue about how Katy isn't fooling anyone and about how she's a hypocrite And then a hippo in the audience would be like "Hey, don't drag US into this!"
See, I think of a different Will Arnett performance: Gob Bluth standing in front of the Magicians Alliance with a sign "We Demand to be Taken Seriously"
This is another video that exemplifies how good Todd's writing is. "Shots fired... directly into her own foot," is one of my favorite things Todd has ever said. And the way he develops his arguments and explains things is a genuine inspiration to me.
One of the great things about Todd is that you can watch videos from over the course of his career and see how much his writing has improved and his ability to explain his arguments has become better. He's always had good lines, but as time has gone on he's gotten increasingly good at comedic timing with his writing as well as clarifying points for those who aren't musically knowledgeable.
What makes this even darker is when you go back to Katy's deposition at Kesha's trail, she completely sits on the fence. She talks about how "both sides" made her feel like she had to speak out. Except one side was an alleged rapist with an infinite amount of power in the music industry even today. All her sense of morality is a facade even in her desperate attempts to spotlight it.
Yeah I feel like it comes from a place of ego and wanting gravitas. I’ve heard she’s done some pretty messed up stuff w her real estate acquisitions too (suing old people for their property..)
@@00st307-mnot only was it old people, it was nuns, and it was for their convent. It was absolutely nuts, especially knowing she came from an extremely religious home.
If Katy was a teacher she would be the teacher who sees a bullied kid defend themselves and expel both that kid and the bully because 'fighting violence with violence makes more violence'
I genuinely like Chained to the Rhythm. I like dark subject matter set to upbeat or at least energetic music. I have also heard nothing else off this album lmao
i'm in the same boat as you pretty much; all i had heard was swish swish and chained to the rhythm off the album and it wasn't until this video that i decided to check out one or two more songs (which i actually think are pretty good -- especially pendulum)
@@unmessable12 true, i think you can like it if ur not a fan of her but if ur like. a diehard katy perry stan i guess and her first new single is about how youre actually braindead sheeple for listening to her probably isnt great lmao
You know, it feels in some weird way that this was the video that Todd’s entire RUclips career has been building towards. He’s done reviews of Katy’s songs, put her songs on his year end lists (even apologizing for that sometimes), talked about her decline in comparison to other artists. And now he’s talking about the album that pretty much ended her mainstream relevance. Oh the irony of that.
By this logic, the Green Day trilogy trainwreckords has to be the overstaying overkill moment. Another artist he’s mentioned regularly who flopped by trying too hard but has almost always just been referenced, never discussed (on his own videos at least).
@@Keopro if Green Day has a trainwreckord, it will certainly be Father of All... . The Uno-Dos-Tre trilogy was bad but it didn't stop Green Day stans for buying it. Father of All... was so bad, it killed the entire fandom of Green Day.
@@musyarofah1 From what I've heard, Father Of All... was something of a troll record, some attempt to get out of their contract rather than something truly serious. So I guess it's more like two albums Todd's referenced before: Bob Dylan's Self Portrait and Eminem's ENCORE.
@@musyarofah1 That's a tough decision because the trilogy was the beginning signs of cracks and a PR mess between the mixed reception, Billie's chaos and subsequent rehab. They were still a big band & sold concerts but they lost a lot of their power as a name after that. Revolution Radio was a return to form but still not a big win overall then Father Of All... was them throwing whatever they wanted at the wall. Both the trilogy & Father Of All could be seen as disasters to differing degrees but it's like comparing Encore to Revival with Eminem. Both a major blow to what they were prior.
Taylor Swift played a part in the failure of Witness. She put her entire back catalogue on Spotify on the same day that Witness was released. It was a nasty feud.
Similar to Todd, I have a theory of my own that Artpop ruined Katy Perry's career Because so many people were honed in on Artpop's "flaws", Prism's issues went unnoticed and many celebrated Katy winning the Katy vs Gaga feud (which ultimately also cost her as people soon realized they called things too early) Thus, Prism's problems which were overshadowed by Artpop were allowed to fester and destroy any chance of Witness succeeding
@@darkartsninja shit, whe you put it like that, it makes sense. You let something slip through the cracks, soon the crack is gonna expand until it's a major problem
HARDCORE agree that Prism was the secret flop that preceded Witness. It was just as fake deep and boring, but we were in an "apolitical" moment of pop music. The Trump era motivated her to address the "divide" and the increasing dystopia of it all but she was just not made for that at all. Poor thing.
In retrospect, her and Hammer's downfalls had a surprising number of simularities if you think about it. Sure, Hammer tried for OG and she tried for elightened girl boss, but both had no experience doing something serious. Unable to pick a new direction and sell it well, the ablum looks comically bad fit/insecure and miserable. As the music failed, the marketing failied, backpedalling way too late and flopped into oblivion. And the worse thing is, you could make the arugment they would've been better off eating Ben & Jerry's for a couple years and bring the Hammer/ Happy party time back once the darker vibes had hit their peak and the tides turned back. The problem of being the "happy" song artist- what do you do when times get tough.
You have to remember that Katy Perry became famous with shallow pop songs. So her built in fanbase wasn't interested in depth. They just wanted fun popcorn songs. So when she tried to go "deep" with her music, it was bound to fail. First, because it's not her wheelhouse and it comes across as shallow. Second because her fanbase doesn't want that and it would alienate them. While I personally don't like anything she's done, I do find it sad to see how quickly she crashed and burned.
I for one am tired of people acting like Trump getting elected was some tragic dark event in this country equivalent to something like 9/11. A lot of people who thought it wasn't going to happen were disappointed, but come on, we've had presidents worse than him and got through it just fine. The only person that deserves to see his victory as some profound tragedy is Hillary Clinton.
Sometimes when I post a video I get some comments that are so glowing with enthusiasm that I uploaded, that I just can't believe them. I simply cannot fathom that anything I could make could excite anyone THAT much. Perhaps this is just due to my self-esteem issues, I don't know. Todd, I just wanted to let you know that every video you do gets me excited to get home and watch it, and a 40-minute-long dissection of the end of Katy Perry's career is the video I never knew I needed from you. Your stuff is always fantastic, thank you for making it, and if there's a voice in your head telling you that I'm not being sincere (for some reason), then that voice is a damn liar.
I always felt like Katy Perry was under pressure at each point in her career to be presented as bright and sexualized as possible. But that she never felt totally comfortable with the image and her attempt to inject humor were her way of forcing some element of who she really was into her music, especially the videos. It made her more endearing to me and always a little sad. Which might be why the songs I enjoy from her most are the ones that have ridiculous videos attached (Birthday, Last Friday Night, Waking Up In Vegas). All that seems to be confirmed with her interviews during this period. But I also wonder if a decade from now she will chill a bit and feel better about the early days and her place in pop music.
One reason she was so popular, everyone wanted to see the next video from her and how whimsical she made it as it was something fresh then with Gaga and Taylor competing with same idea.
@t b Backpeddling, I'm guessing. But also, there is a difference between being sexual, like she was kn Bon Appetite, and sexualized, like she was in I Kissed A Girl. If she is being pushed into it by those around her, and she is young and struggling to make it in the industry, that is going to feel more exploitive than choosing to sing a sexual song yourself and having creative control over it and the video. Which, it seems like was the case with this album.
@@kissarococo2459 That and during the early 2010s pretty much almost anything that was "LOL SO RANDOM" was an instant hit or success. EG The Harlem Shake.
In the press cycle for The Black Eyed Peas’ 2009 album The E.N.D., Will. I. Am. said very consciously that pop artists like the Peas were making such energetic and cheery music as escapism from the ongoing recession. Katy Perry quickly became the spearhead of this trend, and it’s undeniable now that she did that absolute best job out of anyone at it. But after the 2016 election, people realized that that wasn’t actually helping anyone, and Katy wasn’t built for the shift that occurred.
If she had done something like "sorry for being part of the very thing that seems to be damaging the people's perspective on important issues" instead of "you are dumb for liking my music" she wouldn't have failed as hard.
I mean, I still hear it on the radio at Walmart all the time. But I also hear them play "Chained to the Rhythm" and "Never Really Over" all the time too. I think Walmart is just under the mistaken assumption that Katy Perry is still really popular.
Only time I've ever heard it was in a McDonald's, and I only recognised it from this video. It kind of compounded the whole life-sucking feeling that eating in a McDonald's has for me on its own, and the fact that it was in Scotland, where Katy Perry-brand pop never seemed that big to begin with, is even stranger.
you know if “Hey Hey Hey” wasn’t the floundering flop of a song endcapping the flounderingist flop of an album, I’d actually applaud Katy Perry for the truly, genuinely poetic symbolism of herself as a Marie Antoinette fantasizing she’s Joan of Arc. like I’m certain there was no self-awareness involved but that’s just fucking brilliant.
I actually love Hey Hey Hey. If the video had been better executed, it could've been bigger. In any case, it's a way better "feminist" song than Woman's World.
A timeline of Todd's hate crush with Katy Perry: 2009: Todd meets Katy and he couldn't stand her but secretly had a crush on her 2010: Todd's crush got bigger 2011: He confessed that he loved her 2012: They broke up leaving Todd very happy 2013: He started saying awful things about her 2014: He was still initially vile but then warmed up and became friends again 2017: He supported her when she had a break down and people abandoned her 2019: He meets with her once again knowing the end was near 2022: Todd reunites with her for a final time and bids her farewell while wishing her the best Man, if that's not tragic, I don't know what is. EDIT: 2024: Katy reunites with a toxic friend and destroys whatever confidence people had in her and leaves Todd baffled Seriously, what the fuck was that new song?
The Todd in the Shadows Katy Perry serials are back! What a delight. I really love how your format has remained mostly the same all of these years, it always made for some really compelling long-form narratives for those of us who've stuck around as the landscape of pop has changed, with this being a lovely return to some of my favourite pop observations of yours. Katy Perry might not last forever but I do think her role in outlining the 2010s through pop music will.
I was there when Todd's review of firework was the new video at TGWTG. Watching his relationship with Katy evolve has been a the longest celebrity(ish) feud I've ever followed, and I only just now realized it.
To be honest, that Marie Antoinette thing was a pretty personal and clear insecurity to share with the world, she should've saved that for a serious song or something, instead of wasting it on a silly song. I think people would've admired her for sharing that.
This is EXACTLY the story I was hoping to see covered in this series! It's one of the few that I ever actually got invested in; the idea of wanting to be more than just a vapid California Girl in the industry and attempt to say something of value (regardless of the outcome) is really something that is inspiring, but ultimately kneecaps your career. Thank you, Todd!!!
Seeing this story play out more than once, I think the best course of action for these types is make the art that you like/that sells, and just fund/donate to causes and organizations you personally believe in.
As soon as she cut her hair and stopped trying to be America's sweetheart and actively tried to talk about real problems, she was mistreated by the media. She should've waited two more years, in 2019 many singers became politically woke, it was a trend.
@@truthwooph4083 congrats, you managed to type that all out and somehow still say nothing. I hate woke trends as much as anybody else, but your little rant here is conspiracy tier
I love how the music video director for Bon Appetit decided to write out the title accompanied by the sound effect of the wettest and squishiest of farts. They knew. She knew. Everyone knew.
Teenage Dream (song) will always be Katy's one of the best pop songs. It is even described as the "perfect pop song" or the definition of a pop song. And quite literally, it's being studied in some universities.
“Firework” was the best one of the bunch. She did performed at the Macy’s 4th of July Fireworks back around 2012 or 2013, and it’s still remembered for the song used in fireworks shows. So that’s why “Firework” is still the better one.
I don't get it. I like a good amount of pop. Still dance along to Hot n Cold. Teenage Dream never did it for me at all, and before I heard how apparently perfect it is, I thought it was really mid.
31:45 "She's a Marie Antoinette who fantasized about being Joan of Arc" really is sad. That and her singing Fireworks with that girl really does make me sympathize with her
Or she could have just made catchy music and kept her messaging. Stromae is French and he talks about politics, famine, gender - all while creating a dance song. Katy is probably too ignorant to make compelling music without it turning ironic.
Dr luke was found innocent by the supreme court. She has every right to work with him. And that also proves how kesha lied that katy was also r@ped by luke along with gaga forced her to come out as a victim
@@fattiesunite2288 Why are you copy and pasting this all over the comments here? It's a little weird that you're defending Dr. Rapist in the most pathetic possible way
I'm definitely reminded of American Life in some ways. Both have the awkwardness of wealthy and arguably out of touch celebrities attempting to get political well into their careers. Both attack the pop genre. Less favorably, it's easy to read both as being about their singers acting like "bad stuff exists" is a profound sentiment just because it's a new discovery for them.
American Life at least had that wartime runway horror-show video to tease us with some potential. If that video hadn’t been pulled, it could’ve been the big shocking artistic statement that made the record seem more important in hindsight than it really was. But Witness never had anything like that, so you don’t even get to wonder what could’ve been. All of Katy’s cards are face-up on the table, and there’s no good way to play them
American Life is actually a solid album though. Aside from the awkward lyrics of the title track songs like X-Static Process, Easy Ride, Mother and Father, and Intervention shine as some of the greatest deep cuts of her career
Bon Appetit is honestly kind of fascinating to me. Not because it's *good,* because it really, really isn't, but because I think there was actually some kind of purpose behind it. The weird lyrics, the disturbing video imagery... to me, all of that suggests that it was supposed to be a satire. It was supposed to be a critique of sex-equals-food metaphors and men seeing women as pieces of meat. BUT... I can absolutely see why a lot of people don't get that. Because it's Katy Perry singing it. Katy Perry, who even after all the buildup of her "purposeful pop" era and Chained To The Rhythm, was still inextricably tied to shallow, substance-less songs in the public eye. People didn't get the point because *people didn't see any need to look for a point.*
I get it, but I don't think the backing music of the song and the lyrics quite vibe with each other. It feels weirdly underproduced in a way that makes me focus on the vocals, which sound slightly echo-y in a way that takes my attention off the lyrics and onto whatever reverb they put on her vocals. The visuals do a great job of being horrifying and picking up the slack for the audio, but it's a song. Divorced from the video, it just isn't cohesive enough with itself to be catchy and be something that I want to listen to, and songs have to be able to stand on their own or else any point you are or aren't making will be lost, because most of us don't watch the music videos for all the songs we listen to.
I like this concept. Unfortunately, she sang it too straightforward and the video doesn’t back it up. But I think you’re on to something Edit 03/2023: Demi Lovato’s “EAT ME” executed this concept quite well
"No cake under the frosting" is one of the most apt and brilliant metaphors I've ever heard, especially in this case. I will be stealing it and using it in conversation from now until the end of time.
So, I grew up in a fundamentalist Christian home. At the time that Katy Perry burst onto the scene I was on my way out of Christianity and I was also engaged to a woman who loved that kind of vapid dance pop, so I heard a ton of Katy's early output as my ex and I went out a lot while we were together. The beats and lyrics were fun and fluffy, and I forgot about her for about three or four years. Then I found out from a Cracked article that she was a Christian artist named Katy Hudson before she went mainstream. I looked up a music video she did during that period of time and I was completely knocked on my ass by it, not because of the quality of the song but because of the backing band. One of my favorite artists for a very long time was a Christian pop/punk band (that has long since transitioned into straight piano pop) named Relient K. I can't remember if the entire band was backing her in the video, but I know for sure that Matt Thiesen, the lead singer of Relient K, was. She was never so much a blip on the radar as a Christian artist, but Relient K was massive in that scene for a while, so I couldn't figure out how she'd managed that. I went down to the comments section, and lo and behold, Matt and Katy were dating at the time. Matt wrote a few songs about the aftermath of their relationship for Relient K's fourth LP, including one called "Which to Bury, Us or the Hatchet?". It was such a bizarre confluence for things for me that it still throws me a bit every I think about it.
The worst part about that shellfish line is that she took an already mediocre strained metaphor, where because she is a tiger she doesn't need opinions from sheep (her haters), actively made it worse and more confusing by adding "shellfish" into the mix, *and* to top it all off there is no way she puts a shellfish/selfish pun that forced into there without also totally thinking that she is just a fucking genius for adding that 'extra layer' to it. Similar to the genius/"peni(u)s colada" line from Liz Phair.* I dunno maybe I'm biased. I do have a shellfish allergy *for some reason I said Jewel at first.
This episode is such a W for all of us Gen Z kids in the audience because usually when I sit down to watch Trainwreckords the episodes are about some artist I’ve maybe heard of or know a couple songs from, but don’t actually have memory of them flopping or just actually didn’t live through it. This one tho, I REMEMBER this all happening!
"unless you're armie hammer" oh my GOD but also completely agree with your analysis about prism, which absolutely was terrible and more pointlessly terrible than witness. also realised while watching this that i was borderline expecting katy to start doing the soy latte rap from the madonna episode
Bon Appetit is a sex song and also about being a product for consumption. That's at least two levels and part of the reason the video is so weird. She couldn't stop her goofiness from undercutting the metaphor.
So, between Katy and Taylor’s diss track videos toward each other: Taylor’s Bad Blood: depicts her as someone who was backstabbed, but is an awesome, vengeful action hero with her own squad by her side. Katy’s Swish Swish: shows her as a cartoon character in a slapstick routine that’s getting beaten at every turn and is full of awful comedy and… whatever that is at 27:32. Seriously, what is that? Yea, not exactly the best thing you want to make as a video for your diss track, usually something you use to say you’re better than the other person or that they’re weaker than you!
Watching this again after Katy Perry signed with Dr. Luke again, you were right she didn’t have any hits to the degree she did before and he was a major player in that
Her comeback this year would’ve been fine without him (giving many people were starting to appreciate her again on social media with Teenage Dream trending). Now, she’s getting MAJOR backlash for hiring him back.
@@elijahtorres2688honestly I don’t blame her for bringing him back. The trial ended earlier this year and Luke wasn’t guilty, that said he still clearly treated Kesha very badly but that doesn’t affect Katy personally. Also, most of Teenage Dream was produced by Luke so money is also very likely involved.
@@SawdustMusic-rd8mj guilty or not, he has lost the court of public opinion and his name is like poison when other celebrities associate with him, at the very least online
well, the new song she released with him was terrible. i doubt it'll have longevity like the hits from her peak. it's probably gonna be like justin timberlake's filthy, ridiculed then drop off the charts with the blink of an eye.
Something tells me that Katy Perry will be the first one to have two albums featured in the series ☠️
ty. returning here for todd's continued relevance. my man.
Todd alluded to covering Lulu at the end of the St. Anger episode
@llucero94 Lulu is bad but at least has meat on the bone for Lou Reed fans. Not Metallica fans, but that's why the album is named after Lou Reed and Metallica, and not the other way around. It's a Lou Reed album and for that, I kinda like it.
If this new record flops, it'll be the third one in a row.
Honestly three - I like Katy but Witness, Smile and 143 have the potential of a trainwreckord trilogy.
the "oh katy could NEVER work with dr luke now" statement has aged so horribly
😢😢
Glad the song sucks though. I don't have to hear it
Toddstradamus strikes again
I had to come back to this video after the new song reminded me so much of Hey Hey Hey
"especially not while trying to publicly brand herself as a progressive feminist" ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh boy lol
@8:56 “the point is Katy clearly couldn’t work with Dr. Luke now, especially not while trying to brand herself publicly as a progressive feminist” TODDSTRADAMUS STRIKES AGAIN
The trial ended earlier this year, Kesha was let go from Luke’s contract due to him clearly not treating her well. But Luke was also found not guilty. Luke is not a rapist, but that doesn’t mean he’s a good person either.
@@SawdustMusic-rd8mj just because someone doesn't lose a trial doesn't mean they could or could not be guilty? especially in a case as rape where evidence is very cruical to be collected in the moments afterwards? i understand he was not found guilty but you never know...
@@venusx5012 fair enough, Luke seems like a pretty uncompationite person regardless. I’ve seen articles about Dr. Luke repeatedly body shaming multiple artists he’s worked with.
What did I miss?
@@billclockwellher upcoming single is produced by Dr Luke
I remember being at a gay wedding in 2019 and the DJ played “Swish Swish” and literally everybody left the dance floor. Everybody. It was so wild to see a Katy Perry song clear a dance floor of gays.
It’s also the only song from this album I had any prior experience with since I remember it got a decent amount of radio play so it was often playing on car rides so I at least had the hook stuck in my year even if I had otherwise long tuned out the radio and was more listening to anime OSTs or whatever else I was listening to on my phone or something LOL
And the irony is that it's the song from Witness she was trying to sell as a gay anthem (hence her performing it with the drag queens).
But by 2019 the gays had left Katy for Taylor. 😂😅
FFS that's ruthless
WOW! Did they all head right to the bar and get drunk to numb the pain of the cringe?
Oh this was the album I recall all of my gay friends turning against. It became such a punchline so quickly in the bars.
Paula by Robin Thicke: Gets a Trainwreckord episode 5 years after release
Witness by Katy Perry: Gets a Trainwreckord episode 5 years after release
Man of the Woods by Justin Timberlake: Sweats nervously
Edit: I was one year off but I don't care. The prophecy has been fulfilled.
Overdue on The Beginning by the Black Eyed Peas.
Oooo...I guess I already have something to look forward to in 2023.
looks like i'll be patiently waiting for 2024 when todd covers chance the rapper's the big day
I was expecting a 10 year anniversary of Lou Reed's Lulu. But Timberlake is a nice contender.
@@sirgemini5743 ill actually be so excited if he covers that
I remember exactly three things about the Witness era.
1. Liking Chained to the Rhythm
2. Being genuinely grossed out by the Bon Appetite video
3. Thinking that striped coat she wore on SNL made her look like Beetlejuice
4. Backpack kid 😂
6. "Is math related to science?"
@@jtlovescodelyoko I'm surprised Todd didn't mention that on like Day 2 of that stream, Taylor announced she was putting all her music back on streaming services, and you could tell Katy found out and was NOT happy the rest of the stream.
literally, same here
7. She copied Miley’s ugly blonde hair cut
"She is a Marie Antoinette who fantasizes being Joan of Arc" is possibly the most accurate way to describe this era of Katy's career. Holy s**t it's so true it hurts!
How come I've never saw it this way. It's sad and heartbreaking.
She was my first concert I’d ever been to with Teenage Dream, I have that undying love for that experience.
funny, someone here does not know anything about marie anoinette or joan of arc... but still complains.
@@KS-gh9ze How I'm I complaining?. I'm just stating what I feel. This album was plastic and empty. Katy may have had lovely and good natured ideas of change and equality but in the end it was all an artifice wrapped in nothingness.
It's sad how forced it sounds, it's not the Katy we know and love. She takes many concepts from this and puts them in Smile, and they shine because it's earnest and has meaning to her as a person and an artist.
Marie Antoinette and Joan of Arc had complex lives and yet culturally we will remember one as a wealthy noble woman who lavished in her rich lifestyle while her country suffered and the other one as a martyr who was betrayed by those who worshipped her not so long ago. Both of there downfalls came from patriarchal points of view, Marie didn't have much influence in political decisions and yet the public hated her, she has been remembered ever since as the "let them eat cake" airhead. Joan was named a witch and burned for her undying faith by the same people that were clamoring she was graced by God.
Most people usually don't care about the actual history, symbols are easier to understand and remember.
Nah.
She was more Imelda Marcos fantasizing about being Mother Theresa.
A shallow vapid material obsessed money grubbing tool who is desperate to be seen as a self sacrificing compassionate thoughtful "woman of the people".
Get ready, everyone! Katy about to be the 1st artist to be featured on Trainwreckords twice!
maybe her other songs from 143 sound promising
That's not how this works.
@@jonova3187 Well......
(remembers that Todd alluded to a potential Trainwreckords on Metallica and Lou Reed’s Lulu)
@@mitchellalexander9162 well...
The fact that Katy went back to working with Dr. Luke feels like such a betrayal of everything she was trying to do with this album. I don’t see how she recovers at all from this. Witness wasn’t so bad that there didn’t feel like there was a chance of a comeback. Now we might as well be calling time of death.
Ehhhh. Honestly, if her new single was a banger, the Dr Rapist detail would be overlooked by most. That's the way it is, unfortunately. Her single being a flop makes it easier to focus on the detail of her joining up again with Dr Nonconsensual.
Maybe we'll get another Trainwrecords episode outta this
@@ooombasa5080 if it was one of her California Girls era songs maybe, but the fact she's still trying to use the girl power narrative for herself while working with him puts a giant spotlight on the whole thing
@@ooombasa5080It's not even the mediocrity of the song lyrics and melody. It's the hypocrisy behind the supposed message. 'I'm such a girl's girl that I collaborated with a producer that sexually abused my peer.'
Is it really a betrayal if the vessel for the message was a complete failure? If Katy wants to work with Dr. Luke, that's her own decision. Since he's the best producer for her, it's strictly business. The fallout of her recent single wasn't nearly as huge as Witness' failure. To call it the final nail in the coffin is a wild proclamation.
I think Katy Perry was the first artist that made me go "You know, I haven't heard from them in a while. Strange because I remember when they were one of the most popular people ever."
Fr
You know, it's kinda weird now how Kesha and Willow Smith are bigger than Katy Perry. My 15 year old self would have never believed this.
Same here, though I feel like Taylor is approaching that status too.
For real
I thought the same thing once I started watching the video!
Katy referring to herself as "liberated" while looking like she's on the brink of tears is probably one of the most depressing things I've seen in a while.
... watched the news this week?
@@misanthropicservitorofmars2116 An upcoming war isn’t as depressing...
Hell if I could ever understand these rich, famous people and their perception of being imprisoned.
Rest of us out here worrying about putting food on our tables, going to jobs we don't like (if we're lucky enough to have one), and staring down the barrel of decades of grinding just to survive.
Now we get to worry about potential nuclear wars again thanks to incompetent leadership (or malevolent, depending on your view) in the West.
The entertainment industry continually lies and says these women are liberated, but these women are just selling themselves to make money and call it liberation. It's all part of the same system.
@@drb4074 I mean from what I hear, fame isn't exactly all it's clamored up to be. You have constant public scrutiny, no privacy, and you have a facade to keep up to the public 24/7 unless they want them to eat them up. It's basically putting up a permeant act unable to truly be yourself or even human.
...Not that that's any worse than what you said but if anything I hope that at least provides some perspective on that matter so famous people problems with being imprisoned makes some kind of sense.
Really cool how Katy vaporized any ounce of sympathy that Todd mentions in the conclusion by deciding to work with Dr. Luke again. It's like she's obsessed with making bad decisions!
And now it’s 8 years later, and Katy Perry is working with Dr. Luke again.
And they put out an awful song. lol
Dr luke was found innocent by the supreme court. She has every right to work with him. And that also proves how kesha lied that katy was also r@ped by luke along with gaga forced her to come out as a victim
Dr luke was found innocent by the supreme court. She has every right to work with him. And that also proves how kesha lied that katy was also r@ped by luke along with gaga forced her to come out as a victim
@@fattiesunite2288 Easy there, tiger. Yes, indeed the R@p3 charges weren't true but that doesn't mean he isn't a scumbag with a poor track record of how he treats the artists on his roster. Katy knows this and still works with him, despite striving to build a feminist persona.
@@fattiesunite2288 the same supreme court that is stacked with Trump appointed judges, one of which was very publicly accused of sexual assault himself, the same court that overturned Roe V Wade? We should trust them why?
My favorite part of the SNL performance is her yelling "Oh shit!" when the track & everyone else is saying "Offset," which is a member of Migos' signature. It shows that she had literally no idea what was going on...even on her own song.
I never noticed that before, its absolutely hilarious especially considering Offset is standing right next to her when she says it. I would pay money to see a transcript of his internal monologue at that moment.
I never caught that lol
@@waspswarm870”just think about the bag you’ll get from this, don’t think about the weird white lady, just focus on the bag”
@@thatkidwiththehoodie words we could all live by
@@leaffinite2001 Looking for weird white sugar mommas in my area as we speak.
I misheard "shellfish or a sheep" as "selfish little sheep" once and damn, she should've gone with that instead.
Right?!
@@joshuacoleman8000 I'm not a singer but I feel like it fits the meter? Or at the very least it's close enough a singer could make it fit. Weird that no one in Katy's orbit told her to change the line.
Call me crazy, but i think that was the joke. i guess she wanted to include another animal to match the sheep????
@@GamerTowerDX I think you're giving Sia too much credit.
@@GamerTowerDX it sounds dumb tho. most of Katy's lyrics are cliches or metaphors, even at her most "personal" she's used shit like saving a message as draft or seeing double rainbows lmao
Strange to say, I think this should've been a rock opera.
Think about it. A concept album where Katy plays a caricature of herself becoming aware of the evils of her industry and trying to be a hero and stop it, with a full, tragic narrative. It couldve worked better than just a bunch of songs.
I would love to see this. It could have started w Bon Appetit - where her hair is hacked off and she transforms. I loved tommy as a kid so I’d love to see more conceptual works like that.
Why did she name it hey hey hey? Like I know she sings that but its such a terrible name for a song
@@00st307-m Swish Swish could've been about how the industry pits women against each other
That would be so good
Wouldn’t it end up being The Wall at home, though?
I feel like Katy Perry's career is just so surreal because she really had some huge hits and then it just went to hell. Teenage Dream is still amazing.
Dr. Luke is the reason.
Melina on a Todd video? Let's goooo!
your vid on Bisexuality + Katy Perry's late 2010s music schmacked me down like a tonne of bricks - and with no affect of shade or nonsense, thank you, quite informative for me in my early 30s lmao ^_^
@@JohnAntonucciNooch Bonnie Mckee was the reason.
Her huge hits went South, basically.
Bon Appetit *could* have worked. Sexual cannibalism as a metaphor for what showbusiness does to young talent, especially young female talent, is so perfect that it all but writes itself. But it would take a very delicate hand to stick the landing.
'Witness' era Katy Perry does not have a delicate hand.
I could see that song working with a singer like Bjork. Her Surreal Output makes me think she could pull it off
@@eamonndeane587 Or Gaga. She was not afraid to be disturbing.
Katy's inability to act without making hundered goofy faces ruins it. Imagine this done with a singer who looks actually terrified throughout the video. Who is not afraid to look ugly. Not trying to look like adorable goofball (I mean, Katy cried when people did not like her woke haircut and started to grow it out immediatelly).
This is exactly what The Neon Demon does, the movie that inspired the artwork.
Unfortunately Ke$ha did it better. Check out “cannibal”
Reminds me of the weird video Bieber did for Yummy. Definitely feel like the are wanting to expose something but it doesn’t seem to translate to the public 100%
The way she looked and sounded when she said "but, you know, you'll still have some of that good old Katy Perry fluffy stuff that you love so much" sounded so miserable and self loathing, that I saw it in a movie about a pop star despairing about her vapid image overcoming her hidden depths i would have thought it was too on-the-nose.
She reminded me a lot of robin sparkles in “How I met your mother” most of the time.
And it’s crazy how she says it like it’s a choice for her to be either someone who talks about more serious issues or someone who makes fun summer jams. Yet it’s very much possible for both to be the case, for songs to be enjoyed for both the fun, exciting music while still having important things to say. Heck, Katy had already done it at least once in her career with Firework, which is an energetic, fun song you can enjoy on a dance floor and with friends, but still appreciate it for its empowering message. Lady GaGa also did it with Born This Way, an electrifying, easily danceable song that still carries an important message about self-love and acceptance. So with Katy seeming to indicate people are telling her that if she’s going in a sociopolitical direction, that she’d have to give the fun stuff up too, I just want to say that she can kill two birds with one stone in her music.
“Is this what you wanted, you vultures?!”
@@heymistercarter. I feel like maybe Katy was thinking too hard on it, like the more you overthink the message, the more fake and contrived the product ends up being.
You mean "that if I saw it in a movie?"
Interestingly “Hey Ya” by Outkast was a song about the vacuousness of pop songs but it was cryptic enough to not insult anyone and had the hooks to distract people completely (ironically)
and i'd argue the fact that it distracted people only added on to the point of the song. it proved its point. cttr didnt do any of that
I'd say its more about the end of a relationship than anything else - but yeah, it does make lots of references to that too. The sincerity of Andre 3000's performance is what sells the show.
"Y'all don't want to hear me, you just want to dance"
It took digs at the vacuousness of pop songs, but as a whole it was about the bitter end of a relationship.
to be fair, hey ya could play in a pop playlist and blend in completely, which probably helped it in that regard
The tragic thing about the Marie vs Joan thing is that in the end they're both executed in front of cheering crowds.
I guess the path is important
And both were made scapegoats for things they had no control over, just to satisfy angry bloodthirsty mobs.
@@louisduarte8763eh I mean Marie Antoinette wasn't the most sympathetic character. She opposed every type of reform and lived a lavish life w/o much regard for the people
She wasn't some powerless damsel
Yeah, that was stuck in my head the whole time watching the segment about Hey Hey Hey. Pretty ironic considering how different they were, but like you said, the path is important.
@@highbread817the Prussian had it comin’
@@highbread817lol that could apply to Katy Perry as well!
Katy perry in 2017: I can't work with dr Luke because I'm powering feminism.
Katy perry 2024: I made a feminist music video with dr luke.
Just go’s to show how educated on feminism she is
In Sweden we have a female feminist artist, I keep forgetting her name but some years ago she declared in articles and on stage how much she hates men because of various assaults against women at festivals and then right after that she went to Usa to work with Chris Brown. And even better is that the whole non religious feminist movement just refuses to protest religious oppression of women at all.
Katy Perry singing about how pop music makes people stupid is like Motley Crue singing about the virtues of monogamy and how bad drugs are.
i gotta find myself some pop
BRANDON
I LOVE YOU
I LOVE HER
SHE IS YOUR MOM
@@ShadowSorel what in god's name are you rambling about?
@@qwertyiuwg4uwtwthn it's a reference to the song "brandon" from motley crue's "generation swine"
Though to be fair, a song about how drugs will fuck you up tend to be pretty good, see Cocaine by Eric Clapton
It’s hilarious to think that 10 years ago we considered Roar vs Applause as a battle of the pop divas, but nowadays Gaga is collecting songwriting awards and become an actress and Katy has become almost completely forgotten. It just really provides context to what you said about how she never really had a distinct direction and over the following decade it became apparent
plus how the albums the songs are from have been viewed - artpop is largely seen as being misunderstood by critics of its time while prism is almost entirely forgotten. legit one of my favourite songs rn is an artpop b side and i could not name a single b side from prism lmao
@@iwakeupandboomimaratWhat’s the name of the Artpop B-side that you like so much? I need to hear it!
@@marvelousTUD mary jane holland! its not a masterpiece fair warning but i fucking adore it lol, i also enjoy donatella and swine but idk if they count as b sides
@@soldjaroffortun3if you have to listen to one Artpop b side, it’s Brooklyn nights. If you have to listen to one Gaga song, it’s probably also Brooklyn night. Other honourable mentions are: Princess die (live only, all studio version are fake), Partynauseous, Stache (Princess High). In an alternate universe, this b-side album would be the biggest event album that launched industrial EDM to new heights.
@@iwakeupandboomimaratPrism doing 3x amount of streams that Artpop does daily. Critics don't give you streams hun
Katy: I'm progressive who believes that women should stop being seen as objects and we need to reduce harmful stereotypes in the industry.
Also Katy: HAHA FAT WOMAN EAT BASKETBALL PLEASE LAUGH
She means well but man is she bad at thinking
Was that Katy’s idea, or the director’s? (Joel Meyers)
@@TimmyTickle everyone who didn’t see that as a terrible joke/idea is at fault
@@ignatiusjackson235 care to elaborate?
Also Katy: wears revealling clothes to market herself on sex appeal and even has a song with fireworks coming out of her breasts. So I'm not surprised that no one takes her seriously when she says she wants to be serious and be against over sexualizing women. She made her career on it.
"Rich white female pop singer wants to get involved in politics and she clearly isn't equipped to do that so she just mostly makes it about her own personal drama" is now the premise of two different trainwreckords episodes.
which is the other?
@@jules6631 Madonna - American Life
@@dyldragon1 ah thank you
If i got a nickel for every time-
…Does Jewel make it three?
This might be one of Todd's nicest Trainwreckords. The album's bad, but you can tell he really pities her. It's fitting considering Todd's complicated relationship with Katy over the last ten years. Todd discussed Katy so often, especially when she was a major pop star, even when her music was terrible. This feels like a fitting finale for all Todd's "Katy Perry files."
The end was so kind.
The album is great.
He was really kind to the Carpenters.
@@takemyhand1988 u didn't even gave it a real listen, did u?
her music was never "terrible". stop. there's a reason why she sold so many records. her music is harmless and just plain fun. she's harmless. if i were in her place i would have completely lost it. to be so humiliated, made fun of, ridiculed, put down by peers and audience...honestly it's really sad. and she didn't really deserve all that. what has she actually done to warrant any of it, when you think about it?
I imagine you can only say Bon Appetit is her most explicit song bc you've blocked all memories of Peacock 😔
Tbf I can’t really blame anyone who wants to forget that song 😆
It was the most explicit song of hers that had a video and was released as a single. I don't think either were true about Peacock.
lmao I used to listen to that song when I was feeling sad because it was so raunchy and ridiculous that it would instantly cheer me up
Eh, Peacock still fits within her typical cheesy, somewhat juvenile type of sexuality. Sure, it’s a swear word technically, but any edginess is swiftly smothered by a corny-ass bird pun.
i love peacock it’s so unnecessarily dirty and funny
I think the problem with Katy Perry is that in the beginning she gave off a shallow bubbliness- like a warm bath. It ain't too deep, but it can be enjoyable. Then she tried to reinvent herself to 'get with the times' and that bathtub turned into a puddle.
Agree completely. imo she didn’t “get woke” or educated, she just got preachy. She went from shallow but fun to just shallow.
It's like being in a hot tub for too long when the heat starts to get less and less comfortable. Then you look over and realize the jets are off but there are still bubbles...
yeah perry's biggest problem is her disdain for being offensive, ironic given that she burst onto the scene with a tongue in cheek song about casual girl-on-girl that got the conservatives up in arms and Ur So Gay, which got many liberals up in arm. Maybe because she experienced backlash for those things, she decided to make generic, inoffensive pop music. She's just done it for so long that she doesn't know how to not: even when she's trying to have a message, it's the most lukewarm neutral position she can take
It’s like when a rock band that is known for being fun like say a college rock band releases an album that they say is them going in a “deeper, more serious and more mature direction for the band”, absolute death knell that the songs are going to suck.
Earnest uncertainty is a difficult posture to adopt in this kind of pop music.
"The term Flop era was coined as a direct result of this album" That even transcended language barriors, in the latin american pop music fandom Witness is still widely used as a synonym of shame.
So people are saying things like "This album is [Latin Pop Musician]s Witness"? Man, that's just brutal.
@@Tzilandi I saw someone recently say that "Dawn FM is going to be TheWeeknd's Witness" or something like that. That album is STILL widely known as a moment of shame in the pop fandom in general.
I always comparer with Lotus and the Lotus tour lol
Such as who? I don´t know of any latam pop artist who are on the outs right now
Honestly, go on r/popheads and a ton of pop music fans use “flop era” on a regular basis! Same with “witness era”, although rn Lorde’s Solar Power is gaining popularity in referring to an album that did nothing
In some alternate, arguably worse, universe, this episode is a One Hit Wonderland of I Kissed a Girl by Katy Perry. In the "did they deserve better?" section, Todd admits that he would have liked to hear more and this kind of music is a guilty pleasure of his. All without a hint of shame.
Well, he could do a One Hit Wonderland for "I Kissed a Girl." Just not Katy Perry's.
The Failed Follow-Up would be California Girls.
I'd definitely say that universe would be much, much better
@@calmbbaerthe Jill Sobule one from the 90s that’s actually about lesbianism?
Waking Up in Vegas turn her around. And so did TGIF.
That ending once sounded so optimistic. Now it's kinda ominous considering where Katy's career has gone since.
I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve watched this specific episode. Something about a modern pop star completely flopping through this kind of a record is so striking and interesting to learn about. Favorite Trainwreckords episode to date
The storytelling was very on point. If you’re interested, I recommend a channel called Pop Dissected and his video on why Witness was a commercial flop.
Same here. It makes me look forward to (whenever Todd will release it) the "Man of the Woods" episode. This episode is personal to me because Katy was a major star when I was in high school
He was a little too hard on the SNL performance tho
@@DiabloSandwich59 no it is very cringe. he didn’t even say much on it tbh. just trashed migos which feels right after everything
@@DiabloSandwich59It's such an infamous moment, he kinda had to talk about it with so much detail
for latin american fandoms it kind of coined a phrase similar to 'in your flop era',,, we say 'pasando la witness' which literally translates as 'going through your witness' , kind of..... we use it when something gives you second-hand embarrassment or 'cringe'.
Nunca había escuchado eso, pero 100% lo creo jajajajaja
Where?? 😂😂😂😂😂😂
nunca lo había escuchado pero si es súper ingenioso ngl jfjfjnf
That’s hilarious 😂
man, i wish that idea caught on in the states. imagine every hard flop album out of a massive star being called a 'witness album"
Instead of the Hunger Games, she should have been inspired by Clueless.
"I genuinely want to help people but I'm too rich and shallow to quite figure it out" is a decent hook for winning people over. Its clumsy instead of cringeworthy. And Taylor Swift fits the Tai role
It's a shame that Iggy Azalea already tried to lay claim to that persona
@@TheLowBrassDude yeah, and that the song was so successful and also reviled that it kind of ruined it for everyone.
@@TheLowBrassDude She made a video with the Clueless aesthetic. I wouldn't say that he tried for an actual Cher attitude.
Katy Perry isn't that smart, and shallow people rarely have enough self-awareness to know they're completely shallow.
@@Anomaly188 But to me, Katy Perry is far more genuine despite being shallow and ignorant than people like Taylor Swift. Honestly, I think that's probably because she became washed up so it kinda humanized her. As opposed to Taylor Swift who failed at "shade never made anyone else less gay". But yeah, she might not have self-awareness.
I think Todd is 100 % right about there being two kinds of pop star. Case in point: five years after they both had their flop eras around the same time, Taylor Swift is still huge while Katy Perry disappeared like Thanos had snapped his fingers.
Was reputation even a flop era? LWYMMD may not have had longevity of the 1989 singles, but it went #1, reputation sold 1 million in its first week, was the biggest album of 2018, and spawned the reputation Tour which went on to be the highest grossing tour of North America. I know people like to compare rep's era to 1989's negatively, but on reflection, reputation really was anything but a flop
@@jlo2715 Yes, you are absolutely right, but I think both things can be true at the same time. Reputation was not as universally beloved as 1989 and most non-Swifties seem to remember it as a petty album about celebrity feuds, when it's really anything but. Personally I adore reputation, but I really don't care for its singles, which I feel misrepresented what the album as a whole was about. Sadly, the singles are what most people remember, more than sales numbers, which goes a long way to explain reputation's.... well, reputation as Taylor's "flop era". I think of reputation as the inverse of the "delayed flop" that Todd talks about; it seemed to fizzle out pretty quickly at first but ended up being a success. I think it says a lot about Taylor's power that even the closest she's ever come to having a flop era was that successful.
@@idab9958 Hold up, cuz I think you're onto something. On reflection, the singles for reputation really did come and go honestly quicker than usual. End Game was what? The third single in November 2017 and it petered out maybe like early 2018 just a couple months after the album released. It wasn't until Delicate made its slow burn rise that there was a sense of a longevity single from the album, but you're right. Other than Delicate, the other actual big singles were arguably the worst off reputation, and of course, the gp will get their impression from the album from the big singles, and not the deep cuts.
@@jlo2715 exactly!
.
The bit about Katy seemingly styling herself as an Effie Trinket is very insightful and quite telling. I love Effie as a character and honestly the persona fits what we know of Katy and how she seemed to see herself at the time, but it's also not an image that's going to carry a once-top-charting pop star anywhere but downward. Absolutely obsessed with the parallels.
The thing about Effie is that the audience new the "joke" was on her all the time and she could never see it. Is it true we always could see how shallow KP was and she never see it herself?
@@owenbloomfield1177 But she decided to change her image with Witness so it probably means that she's aware of it. If you look back at her discography you can always tell that there is something she is not content with. From her downsizing sexuality by occasionally inserting comedy to being an edgelord. Furthermore I do think "Chained to the rhythm" was not hypocritical but rather a very self loathing dissect of her own career. If anything, she's Effie, but the moment she gains awareness, readers find her less compelling.
Katy's Witness feels like an artist internalizing some of their most unjustified criticism and it comes off as just the saddest thing to watch... I hope she does feel pride in her work, even at its most sugary, because she should be able to without feeling guilty about it.
This is now the second Trainwreckord that I actually lived through.
You were born after 2003?
I love this too but that might just be because I grew up with Katy Perry.
Same here! I remember the SNL performance….cringe
And wasn't Funstyle pretty recent too?
Get hype for the Man of the Woods trainwreckord episode next year
Fun fact: Katy Perry fans tried organizing a big event for the release of Woman's World recently in Mexico City, in the biggest monument of the city (El Angel de la Independencia)
Only 12 people were there
Shit
Katy Perry has less cultural impact on the present era than Jiren (Dragon Ball Super)
She tried to get Womans World to play at Kamala Harris rallies. They smartly said no and got a Beyoncé song instead.
Went from campaigning for a female presidental nominee to being shown the door by another.
@@LadyTylerBioRodriguezI hope she becomes a republican grifter
@@LadyTylerBioRodriguez Katy Perry trying to make herself the face of the Harris campaign only to get blasted by a an onslaught of solid (brat) green force like it's the Kid's Choice awards all over again
I’ve previously called some artists “Firecracker artists” vs “campfire artists.” Some artists have amazing, impossible to ignore upward momentum culminating in an amazing burst of color and noise that brings joy to most everyone that sees it. And then they’re gone, to be replaced by a different firecracker. Some artists have a much smaller audience, but that audience will keep them alive quite a while longer, and appreciate them on a deeper level. Nothing wrong with either one, and it’s not a perfect dichotomy, but it seems to fit pretty well. Basically, would you rather have Katy Perry’s career, or James Taylor’s.
Fantastic metaphor. Stealing it.
Sort of the old saying that a candle that burns twice as bright lasts only half as long.
You could have just said "Firework artist", you were so close
I LOVE that metaphor- it's honest without being derogatory. People like firecrackers and they like campfires. There's a place for both of them. Hats off to you sir!
@@TheBfutgreg I had my saying first before it applied to Katy Perry.
"Katy Perry is the spectacle not the spectator" is a surprisingly deep quote. You're either part of culture or you're making a commentary about it.
There's only two types of people in the world. The ones who entertain, and the ones that observe. Well, baby...
@t b Um... I'm not the greatest fan of that man but... isn't he still selling millions of albums well into the 20th year of his career?! I don't see him fading though granted, I personally have abruptly stopped listening to him after the Kamikaze album.
@t b Eminem hasn't faded lmao. He just doesn't participate in pop culture
y not both
Caught this comment right when he said it. Never thought too much about it until now.
So, uh, Katy Perry went from being raised in some kind of weird mormon cult, into being one of the worlds biggest pop stars with very little in between. Is it just me, or does this album kinda... really make sense given that fact? Have you ever met religious homeschool kids? Their relationship with humour is, a little goofy. They kinda, don't fully get it. Not to paint with too wide a brush, there's nothing wrong with being religious or being homeschooled or both, but when parents actively separate their kids from popular culture while feeding them aggressive religion, and then they get out into the rest of the world and just kind of have to figure it out, it's tough. Doing that, while being a pop star? I honestly don't know how KP is doing as well as she is. She should be applauded for that if nothing else. And maybe give her half a break if she does a goofy rap dance during the migos verse.
Of course, when you're talking about a career, and a career based on spectacle and aesthetic over everything else, there's only so much of a break you can give someone. Oh well.
@Perverted Alchemist awkward is not that bad. Can be charming even
There is absolutely something wrong with being strictly homeschooled and religious. I'm not speaking as some angry atheist here, but its glaringly obvious that homeschooling is even worse to kids than the public school system.
@@ileutur6863 I mean, there are people that are homeschooled, and religious, but the religion is more or less reasonable and tolerant, and incidental to the homeschooling. If the reason you are homeschooled is "because" of religion, yeah, that's not a good sign. But there are reasons to be homeschooled, and most people are religious, so it stands to reason that there'd be, non toxic, or at least averagely toxic forms of religious & homeschooled.
as an exvangelical yeah i get it my emotional growth was stunted and my humor is really goofy.
@@ileutur6863 You really do not know many homeschooled kids if you think that lol
I think Todd's theory about pre-flopping is bigger than just Katy Perry. You see the same thing in video games, where one game becomes a huge success, and a sequel is hastily shat out to capitalize on that, which ruins the franchise's reputation, leading to the third game doing poorly. Usually, the second game will sell well, despite being bad, and the third game will sell poorly, despite being not as bad.
Razorfist said it best: "The only thing worse than a bad game that nobody bought is a bad game that everyone bought"
That description could easily be applied to the Last Two Eidos Tomb Raider Games.
Tomb Raider: The Angel Of Darkness gets the brunt of the Criticism that was more deserved for Tomb Raider Chronicles.
Watch dogs 2 comes to mind, the first one sucked hard but 2 was pretty good and genuinely fun in a goofy way but did not see the success that the first one did because of the rep of the first game.
@@chrisr1091 Really? Because I didn't buy Watch_Dogs 2 because the promo materials made me think that it was just oversaturated zoomer garbage with a bunch of insufferable kids as the principal cast.
My first thought was the last Jedi and solo
I wonder if this part of Katy’s insecurity came from Dr. Luke. Kesha repeatedly said like Dr. Luke made her feel that she was nothing but a “dumb” and “fun” bimbo and shot down any attempt to show the world that she had more depth. I get the impression he makes Doja Cat feel the same way (see her speech she made when announcing she would quit music). Funny how Dr Luke repeatedly makes female artists feel like shit but he keeps getting nominated for Grammys.
Wait Doja quit?
@@LA-be8fu I think she said she was but didn’t?
this totally makes sense seeing how ke$ha and seemingly doja cat are
This makes so much sense after the Doja Cat demon situation...
A lot of people in the midst of being hurt by abusive people won't recognize that they are being victimized@Alejandro-gk9jw
I just need to acknowledge that, if you mute the actual song, the video for Bon Appetite is one of the most effective pieces of body horror I've seen in my life. The imagery at 18:17 of human flesh being stretched and torn like dough is so nightmarish it's almost beautiful.
I agree with this so much. It reminds me of that one famous painting of Kronos.
I would honestly be interested in a short horror film with this premise. As eroticism, though, it... doesn't quite hit the mark.
I really think that might have been the point. I think she might have been deliberately trying to deconstruct the sexualisation of herself in her previous videos by literally depicting herself as an object for consumption, and taking things so far that it passed "sexy" and hit "body horror."
...The problem is that she's Katy Perry, so she ran face-first into Poe's Law. ...When you've built your career on your cheerfully tasteless image, how exactly do you make a video that's so tasteless and gross that it's immediately identifiable as a deconstruction of your old videos?
When you realise that this very un-sexy jam about sex followed Katy's attempt at being "Purposeful," you just have to laugh.
Also, Fuck the Hunger Games movies.
@@Talisguy at least the books are great
If you think Elvis's legend would be what it is without his fall from grace and bleeding his heart out in vegas every night after his peak, then you're delusional. You're spot on about how her fall from grace has produced a fondness for her.
Comparing anyone in the last 22 to Elvis is laughable.
@@Skabanis only comparing them in terms of how their career might wind down and how that last chapter may affect her legacy
@@Skabanis No it isn't. Elvis was great, but he built his career on those before him. There are people who make solid music now, but won't reach the status of a pop culture icon because that's an incredibly uncommon thing to do.
As long as Katy’s death isn’t near as embarrassing as Elvis’s, then I think her legacy will be just fine
Listen Mr Miracle, it may have added to his mystique and ubiquitousness, but he’d still be a household name for generations. It’s difficult to fathom today just how big he was
When she said "Liberated" I almost wanted to be like "Blink twice and confirm you are not in danger because you are close to tears."
You missed the part where Taylor dropped her catalogue back on Spotify the day witness was supposed to release, 1989 even managed to outstream witness that week
This is a total lie it was her discography combined
@@rafikgermany26 I'm pretty sure it did, witness was number 1 with 180k album units and only had 18k streaming units which is very less for a number 1 Album
He hit the nail right on the head when he said that Katy's a pop star who fades away as soon as the hits stop coming. Even at the peak of her fame, she never seemed to draw public interest into her personal life. The fan bases of people like Taylor, Bieber, Gaga, etc. are obsessed with their every move and want to know every last detail of their lives off the stage, but Katy just seemed to be someone who people liked to hear on the radio and not think about a second more.
I feel like every mega successful act who debuted in the late 90's early 2000s will start to experience their commercial decline in this decade.
It has already started for acts like Pink, Xtina, Britney and Alicia Keys
This mirrors the 90's acts who all started declining in the 2010's people like Mariah, JLo,Shakira,Usher, Mary J Blige just to name a few. They are revered today by the strength of their fanbases but they aren't exactly selling the millions they did before.
There seems to be a hidden rule, that every successful act has 10yrs to build a solid fanbase which will carry them for the rest of their career. Some artists are fortunate to have big enough fanbases that enable them to sell well enough to be a viable charting act even while in their commercial decline. KP I feel in her hit making career just didn't gather a big enough fan base to carry her through her 'purposeful pop' era and now I don't see a situation where she will ever be the chart juggernaut she once was. I do think Vegas is a good move for her she really made great light hearted pop songs.
And it's not like there wasn't anything interesting going on. She was married to Russel fucking Brand for fuck's sake.
@@RevsFort
Who?
@@HamazuraGOD Former commedian and actor from England. I heard he's covering political news now (for some reason.)
Is it also possible to say that her fans simply grew up? While they may still be able to enjoy the songs they used to listen to, the newer releases no longer appeal to them as their tastes and preferences change as they mature.
"I don't expect anyone to be as fascinated with one rich white woman's self-loathing as I am."
I dunno Todd, your "Cinemadonna" series did pretty well as far as I can tell.
And there's definitely another on the way because Madonna is directing an autobiography...
😂😂😂
That's a thriving market. Always has been. Almost as profitable as media that explores white mens' emotional turmoil. Frankly, it's probably racist that we care less about art where a WoC wallows in self-pity and torment.
Come to think of it, there's probably a parallel you could draw between Katy Perry and Scarlett O'Hara, if you really, insistently wanted to.
@@archlinuxuser yes, even if it was a narcissistic kind of self-loathing
i feel like that’s more like one rich white woman’s identity confusion
“She clearly couldn’t work with Dr. Luke now”
This feels very different to hear today rather than 2 years ago when I first watched this video😂
She has appeared to have learnt all the wrong lessons from witness
It seems that, like Madonna, singing a song like "Chained to the Rhythm" where you call your own catalog of music 'shallow' seems to be nothing but a bullet to your own foot.
Yeah, I was having some serious American Life flashback with this
Makes sense. Todd referenced Katy in the American Life video for that exact reason.
Maybe it also paints your audience in a negative light as well? Like writing a book that calls any of its fans idiots? At least that's my theory...
Both women are also completely oblivious to the fact that any of their attempts at tackling more serious subject matter are just steeped in ridiculous amounts of self-centeredness.
@@nah....6151 American life was a goddamn joke
At least I can see how Katy may have felt remorse after making nothing but vapid shit all her career and deciding to correct it by making chained to the rhythm
The first real "flop era" of the modern pop landscape was Christina Aguilera's 'Bionic'. It is truly the blueprint of every flop era that followed and is legendary in the stan world.
Think that'd be a good Trainwreckords candidate?
THANK YOU. I was neither a fan, nor an anti-fan of Christina when that was released, but I even remember alllll the people (aka - online gays) just DUNKIN' on that album.
Maybe, but I think Witness' failure was the first one to break out of the stan world and reach even the general public's conscience. There isn't a Bionic version of Katy's SNL performance or the 24 hours "is math related to science" livestream. Like Todd said in the video, Witness might not have been the first flop... but it was the loudest.
OOOF! The Bionic Album hurts me because I LOVED Christina Aguilera's prior work. Back To Basics in particular!
Every album from Christina are so different.She had been successful for 3 albums with completely different styles but It also made her fan base not stable.Bionic was a great album but her last album Back to Basic was very retro very 50s 60s and suddenly to bionic.That’s a really big change.It flopped so hard that even Lotus outsold it.
The two longest videos Todd ever made are, fittingly, about two of the most touchy subjects: Scientology and Katy Perry
Ah yes,the two genders.
And now plagiarism.
Who’s here rewatching this after Woman’s World?
Me
@@daelen.cclark she's working with dr luke again, and on a mediocre song about feminism with an intensely sexualised/male-gaze-y music video no less
@@daelen.cclarka "feminist" song that is as thoughtful and deep as a women clothing line ad
I see a lot of comparisons between Witness and Gaga's Artpop, but what's really interesting to me is that while Artpop was also deemed a "flop," both fans and critics warmed up to it so much more as time went on. These days it's more hailed as a good album that was ahead of its time and severely misunderstood upon release.
Meanwhile the consensus on Witness--that it's a bad album that flopped spectacularly--hasn't changed much in the years since its release. To me it really feels like Katy wanted to be like Gaga in the sense that she wanted to be viewed as multifaceted and creative while also having something important to say beneath it all. But she was unable to make it convincing due to the vapid popstar persona she had previously built for herself, and people were just not buying it. That "No cake under the frosting" line couldn't be more spot on.
This is definitely my favorite Todd video to date. I'd die to get an Artpop retrospect from him especially with the album's 10 year anniversary happening this year.
Lol tell everyone you're a hardcore Gaga fanboy/girl without telling everyone... 🤦
@@Cooe. Lol leave your stan war bs at the door please
@@Cooe. Nothing “hardcore” about admitting Gaga had more artistry, creativity and depth in her pinky finger than Katy Perry 😂 And im saying this as someone who enjoys Katy’s songs! But Lady Gaga was and IS still leagues ahead of Katy!
I feel like Artpop retrospective wouldn’t qualify for Trainwreckords. True, it was a pretty big flop at the time for Lady Gaga, but as you mentioned it garners a lot of respect today. And, simply put, Lady Gaga has been far too successful post-Artpop for it to be considered a Trainwreckord.
Another overlooked component of that dire 2017 SNL performance was the other song (Swish Swish) that she performed without Migos. They invited on the teenage kid who invented flossing (I think) and that was the only clip saw from the show for weeks after. Katy Perry, the as you put it “Mega Turbo Pop” Star with her glitzy outfits and production and hype… overshadowed by The Floss.
Was that the one with the backpack kid dancing?
When you have a song/video that unintentionally spits on both Fatboy Slim ('Star 69') And the Bag Raiders ('Shooting Stars'), you probably need to just stop.
Backpack Kid went hard, tho. That was his moment
Yep, at that point I think we as Americans were living in such a state of complete disbelief at reality that backpack kid flossing on TV at SNL was just part the fever dream we were living in.
Always a good day when a new Trainwreckords drops.
That’s rather ironic, ain’t it?
Heck yes
Ikrrrrr I’m so hyped
Literally
To me it's more a good middle of the night.
When I rewatch this, everytime Todd replays the clip of Katy "dancing" with Migos I die.
Katy, sweetie, what are you doing, oh my God stop.
Marge in the background cinched it!😂
@@justin5002 unironically i liked the marge clip better. ran circles around katy purely on charm
I’m kind of awestruck at how many levels Swish Swish failed on. Imagine failing to outdiss Bad Blood, failing to out flop Look What You Made Me Do, and failing to outchart both all in one day. That's astounding. Katy got into a fist fight, went for a gut punch only to trip and fall on her own face and then when she got up, saw that Taylor had fired a cannon into her own face and turned that into a viral video. Katy just was not able to compete on any level.
The video is a testament to how badly the video for Irresistible by Fall Out Boy failed. It had many of the same elements to Swish Swish (memes, sport, lazy humour) but evidently wasn’t popular enough to have warned her not to do an equally terrible video.
Nat 1 on Performance Check.
In what world was look what you made me do a flop
@@ArgoBargo not a commercial flop but the reaction was definitely brutal.
@@ArgoBargo what Joel P said. commercially it sold well, but critically it was panned and it was the beginning of Taylor's most reviled era of her career, her shallow "bad girl" era. It also didn't help that the entire album was mid at best and followed 1989, which had 2 of the biggest hits of her career
This feels like a story ark from "Bojack Horseman" to be honest. Almost as if at some point an overweight talking horse is gonna jump on stage and start a monologue about how Katy isn't fooling anyone and about how she's a hypocrite
And then a hippo in the audience would be like "Hey, don't drag US into this!"
Tbh, Katy Perry does kinda give off Mr. Peanut Butter vibes
Talking to Taylor: "What are youuuuuuuuuuuuuu doing here?"
Marie Antionette and Joan of Arc in the same room, what is this a crossover episode?
See, I think of a different Will Arnett performance: Gob Bluth standing in front of the Magicians Alliance with a sign "We Demand to be Taken Seriously"
I'll be damned if you didn't paint a picture with those words. I can see it in my head clear as day.
This is another video that exemplifies how good Todd's writing is. "Shots fired... directly into her own foot," is one of my favorite things Todd has ever said. And the way he develops his arguments and explains things is a genuine inspiration to me.
His metaphors are on point too, "Katy is a firework" to explain how her time in the limelight was bright but short
One of the great things about Todd is that you can watch videos from over the course of his career and see how much his writing has improved and his ability to explain his arguments has become better. He's always had good lines, but as time has gone on he's gotten increasingly good at comedic timing with his writing as well as clarifying points for those who aren't musically knowledgeable.
What makes this even darker is when you go back to Katy's deposition at Kesha's trail, she completely sits on the fence. She talks about how "both sides" made her feel like she had to speak out. Except one side was an alleged rapist with an infinite amount of power in the music industry even today. All her sense of morality is a facade even in her desperate attempts to spotlight it.
Yeah I feel like it comes from a place of ego and wanting gravitas. I’ve heard she’s done some pretty messed up stuff w her real estate acquisitions too (suing old people for their property..)
@@00st307-mnot only was it old people, it was nuns, and it was for their convent. It was absolutely nuts, especially knowing she came from an extremely religious home.
If Katy was a teacher she would be the teacher who sees a bullied kid defend themselves and expel both that kid and the bully because 'fighting violence with violence makes more violence'
Hello from August 2024. At least I can take solace that Ke$ha blew Katy out of the water.
I genuinely like Chained to the Rhythm. I like dark subject matter set to upbeat or at least energetic music. I have also heard nothing else off this album lmao
i'm in the same boat as you pretty much; all i had heard was swish swish and chained to the rhythm off the album and it wasn't until this video that i decided to check out one or two more songs (which i actually think are pretty good -- especially pendulum)
i think if the entire album was like chained to the rhythm it wouldnt have been a complete flop lmao
listen to the full album but not bon appetit and swish swish. those two songs ruin the album for me
Ultimately my only problem with Chained To The Rhythm is that it really does feel like Katy Perry is calling her fans dumb.
@@unmessable12 true, i think you can like it if ur not a fan of her but if ur like. a diehard katy perry stan i guess and her first new single is about how youre actually braindead sheeple for listening to her probably isnt great lmao
I'm liking that Todd isn't afraid to make these videos longer to get all the information
You know, it feels in some weird way that this was the video that Todd’s entire RUclips career has been building towards. He’s done reviews of Katy’s songs, put her songs on his year end lists (even apologizing for that sometimes), talked about her decline in comparison to other artists. And now he’s talking about the album that pretty much ended her mainstream relevance. Oh the irony of that.
By this logic, the Green Day trilogy trainwreckords has to be the overstaying overkill moment. Another artist he’s mentioned regularly who flopped by trying too hard but has almost always just been referenced, never discussed (on his own videos at least).
@@Keopro if Green Day has a trainwreckord, it will certainly be Father of All... . The Uno-Dos-Tre trilogy was bad but it didn't stop Green Day stans for buying it. Father of All... was so bad, it killed the entire fandom of Green Day.
@@musyarofah1 From what I've heard, Father Of All... was something of a troll record, some attempt to get out of their contract rather than something truly serious. So I guess it's more like two albums Todd's referenced before: Bob Dylan's Self Portrait and Eminem's ENCORE.
@@musyarofah1 That's a tough decision because the trilogy was the beginning signs of cracks and a PR mess between the mixed reception, Billie's chaos and subsequent rehab. They were still a big band & sold concerts but they lost a lot of their power as a name after that. Revolution Radio was a return to form but still not a big win overall then Father Of All... was them throwing whatever they wanted at the wall. Both the trilogy & Father Of All could be seen as disasters to differing degrees but it's like comparing Encore to Revival with Eminem. Both a major blow to what they were prior.
Do you remember where he mentions her in all of his videos? Lol I wanna watch.
the wreckage of the train has now caught fire
The clowns and confetti are on fire. And the tornado is approaching.
Taylor Swift played a part in the failure of Witness. She put her entire back catalogue on Spotify on the same day that Witness was released. It was a nasty feud.
The crazy thing is if Katy was as big as she was in her prime it wouldn’t have mattered- prism was released the same day as Artpop and outsold it
@@kirstynquinn6602 Artpop is considered a flop album to be fair
@@GNVS300 only by Lady Gaga metrics
Similar to Todd, I have a theory of my own that Artpop ruined Katy Perry's career
Because so many people were honed in on Artpop's "flaws", Prism's issues went unnoticed and many celebrated Katy winning the Katy vs Gaga feud (which ultimately also cost her as people soon realized they called things too early)
Thus, Prism's problems which were overshadowed by Artpop were allowed to fester and destroy any chance of Witness succeeding
@@darkartsninja shit, whe you put it like that, it makes sense. You let something slip through the cracks, soon the crack is gonna expand until it's a major problem
HARDCORE agree that Prism was the secret flop that preceded Witness. It was just as fake deep and boring, but we were in an "apolitical" moment of pop music. The Trump era motivated her to address the "divide" and the increasing dystopia of it all but she was just not made for that at all. Poor thing.
In retrospect, her and Hammer's downfalls had a surprising number of simularities if you think about it. Sure, Hammer tried for OG and she tried for elightened girl boss, but both had no experience doing something serious. Unable to pick a new direction and sell it well, the ablum looks comically bad fit/insecure and miserable. As the music failed, the marketing failied, backpedalling way too late and flopped into oblivion.
And the worse thing is, you could make the arugment they would've been better off eating Ben & Jerry's for a couple years and bring the Hammer/ Happy party time back once the darker vibes had hit their peak and the tides turned back. The problem of being the "happy" song artist- what do you do when times get tough.
You have to remember that Katy Perry became famous with shallow pop songs. So her built in fanbase wasn't interested in depth. They just wanted fun popcorn songs. So when she tried to go "deep" with her music, it was bound to fail. First, because it's not her wheelhouse and it comes across as shallow. Second because her fanbase doesn't want that and it would alienate them.
While I personally don't like anything she's done, I do find it sad to see how quickly she crashed and burned.
I for one am tired of people acting like Trump getting elected was some tragic dark event in this country equivalent to something like 9/11. A lot of people who thought it wasn't going to happen were disappointed, but come on, we've had presidents worse than him and got through it just fine. The only person that deserves to see his victory as some profound tragedy is Hillary Clinton.
@@troodon1096 Cool, this isn't what my comment was about though. Were you by chance a child when Trump was elected?
Someone calling Katy Perry a 'poor thing' is just so amusing to me for some reason
Sometimes when I post a video I get some comments that are so glowing with enthusiasm that I uploaded, that I just can't believe them. I simply cannot fathom that anything I could make could excite anyone THAT much. Perhaps this is just due to my self-esteem issues, I don't know.
Todd, I just wanted to let you know that every video you do gets me excited to get home and watch it, and a 40-minute-long dissection of the end of Katy Perry's career is the video I never knew I needed from you.
Your stuff is always fantastic, thank you for making it, and if there's a voice in your head telling you that I'm not being sincere (for some reason), then that voice is a damn liar.
Dude, you and Todd are two of my favorite RUclipsrs- I’m weirdly excited to know that you’re a fan too.
Dude I watch your videos they are well made, funny, and entertaining. You are just overthinking it.
Way to make the whole comment about yourself. Nobody know who you are.
*looks up from corporate reports* get back to work Cobbler.
Peach, your video on Ancient Rome gave me this exact feeling, buddy.
Keep on Cobbling, you magnificent bastard
“Oh God the Barbz” LMFAOOOO. I screamed.
I always felt like Katy Perry was under pressure at each point in her career to be presented as bright and sexualized as possible. But that she never felt totally comfortable with the image and her attempt to inject humor were her way of forcing some element of who she really was into her music, especially the videos. It made her more endearing to me and always a little sad. Which might be why the songs I enjoy from her most are the ones that have ridiculous videos attached (Birthday, Last Friday Night, Waking Up In Vegas). All that seems to be confirmed with her interviews during this period. But I also wonder if a decade from now she will chill a bit and feel better about the early days and her place in pop music.
One reason she was so popular, everyone wanted to see the next video from her and how whimsical she made it as it was something fresh then with Gaga and Taylor competing with same idea.
@t b Backpeddling, I'm guessing. But also, there is a difference between being sexual, like she was kn Bon Appetite, and sexualized, like she was in I Kissed A Girl. If she is being pushed into it by those around her, and she is young and struggling to make it in the industry, that is going to feel more exploitive than choosing to sing a sexual song yourself and having creative control over it and the video. Which, it seems like was the case with this album.
@@kissarococo2459 That and during the early 2010s pretty much almost anything that was "LOL SO RANDOM" was an instant hit or success. EG The Harlem Shake.
In the press cycle for The Black Eyed Peas’ 2009 album The E.N.D., Will. I. Am. said very consciously that pop artists like the Peas were making such energetic and cheery music as escapism from the ongoing recession.
Katy Perry quickly became the spearhead of this trend, and it’s undeniable now that she did that absolute best job out of anyone at it.
But after the 2016 election, people realized that that wasn’t actually helping anyone, and Katy wasn’t built for the shift that occurred.
Speaking of, the Peas are absolutely overdue for a Trainwreckords episode on "The Beginning".
If she had done something like "sorry for being part of the very thing that seems to be damaging the people's perspective on important issues" instead of "you are dumb for liking my music" she wouldn't have failed as hard.
3-4 months later, we can assure you, Todd, that song did NOT take off.
It’s a shame, I liked it
Well we now have one wrong prediction from Todd during the 2020s. That was quick.
I mean, I still hear it on the radio at Walmart all the time. But I also hear them play "Chained to the Rhythm" and "Never Really Over" all the time too. I think Walmart is just under the mistaken assumption that Katy Perry is still really popular.
Only time I've ever heard it was in a McDonald's, and I only recognised it from this video. It kind of compounded the whole life-sucking feeling that eating in a McDonald's has for me on its own, and the fact that it was in Scotland, where Katy Perry-brand pop never seemed that big to begin with, is even stranger.
it was weirdly huge in croatia, and did quite well in the rest of europe
you know if “Hey Hey Hey” wasn’t the floundering flop of a song endcapping the flounderingist flop of an album, I’d actually applaud Katy Perry for the truly, genuinely poetic symbolism of herself as a Marie Antoinette fantasizing she’s Joan of Arc.
like I’m certain there was no self-awareness involved but that’s just fucking brilliant.
I actually love Hey Hey Hey. If the video had been better executed, it could've been bigger.
In any case, it's a way better "feminist" song than Woman's World.
Todd and Katy are like the Joker and Batman: each other's antithesis and yet intrinsically linked in a sort of symbiotic cosmic counterbalance.
Does Pluto counterbalance the sun?
This is the best comment on this video
@@speelbergoMF In a way, yes. All gravitational bodies orbit around the mutual barycenter.
Adding Katy Perry and Todd to my list of pairs that have been compared to the Joker and Batman in RUclips comments
Personally I feel Madonna is the Joker to Todd's Batman.
A timeline of Todd's hate crush with Katy Perry:
2009: Todd meets Katy and he couldn't stand her but secretly had a crush on her
2010: Todd's crush got bigger
2011: He confessed that he loved her
2012: They broke up leaving Todd very happy
2013: He started saying awful things about her
2014: He was still initially vile but then warmed up and became friends again
2017: He supported her when she had a break down and people abandoned her
2019: He meets with her once again knowing the end was near
2022: Todd reunites with her for a final time and bids her farewell while wishing her the best
Man, if that's not tragic, I don't know what is.
EDIT: 2024: Katy reunites with a toxic friend and destroys whatever confidence people had in her and leaves Todd baffled
Seriously, what the fuck was that new song?
This needs to be top comment lmaooo this is hilarious
The One True TITS Narrative, surpassing even the Bruno Mars Character Arc(TM) lol
This is beautiful 🥲
and during all this time, Katty perry was just trying to impress Todd. Poor her
The life and death of a problematic fave.
The Todd in the Shadows Katy Perry serials are back! What a delight. I really love how your format has remained mostly the same all of these years, it always made for some really compelling long-form narratives for those of us who've stuck around as the landscape of pop has changed, with this being a lovely return to some of my favourite pop observations of yours. Katy Perry might not last forever but I do think her role in outlining the 2010s through pop music will.
I was there when Todd's review of firework was the new video at TGWTG. Watching his relationship with Katy evolve has been a the longest celebrity(ish) feud I've ever followed, and I only just now realized it.
To be honest, that Marie Antoinette thing was a pretty personal and clear insecurity to share with the world, she should've saved that for a serious song or something, instead of wasting it on a silly song.
I think people would've admired her for sharing that.
This is EXACTLY the story I was hoping to see covered in this series! It's one of the few that I ever actually got invested in; the idea of wanting to be more than just a vapid California Girl in the industry and attempt to say something of value (regardless of the outcome) is really something that is inspiring, but ultimately kneecaps your career. Thank you, Todd!!!
Seeing this story play out more than once, I think the best course of action for these types is make the art that you like/that sells, and just fund/donate to causes and organizations you personally believe in.
As soon as she cut her hair and stopped trying to be America's sweetheart and actively tried to talk about real problems, she was mistreated by the media. She should've waited two more years, in 2019 many singers became politically woke, it was a trend.
I bit off topic, but did Todd do a Trainwreckords on Taylor Swift?
@@srslydoatm9251 , no. So far, I don't think TayTay has had a real career ending or even relevance ending album.
@@truthwooph4083 congrats, you managed to type that all out and somehow still say nothing. I hate woke trends as much as anybody else, but your little rant here is conspiracy tier
I love how the music video director for Bon Appetit decided to write out the title accompanied by the sound effect of the wettest and squishiest of farts.
They knew. She knew. Everyone knew.
the. what.
Teenage Dream (song) will always be Katy's one of the best pop songs. It is even described as the "perfect pop song" or the definition of a pop song. And quite literally, it's being studied in some universities.
“Firework” was the best one of the bunch. She did performed at the Macy’s 4th of July Fireworks back around 2012 or 2013, and it’s still remembered for the song used in fireworks shows. So that’s why “Firework” is still the better one.
I think songs like Teenage Dream and Adore You by Harry Styles are worth looking into on how do you create a love song that isn’t super saccharine.
@@amandabrite1267 what other songs have that?
@@tbs311I would say style by Taylor swift
I don't get it. I like a good amount of pop. Still dance along to Hot n Cold. Teenage Dream never did it for me at all, and before I heard how apparently perfect it is, I thought it was really mid.
Rewatching this video this week feels appropriate I need a part 2
31:45 "She's a Marie Antoinette who fantasized about being Joan of Arc" really is sad. That and her singing Fireworks with that girl really does make me sympathize with her
Been waiting for this Trainwreckord for years holy shit, and it's finally here
Same, I've also been waiting FOR YEARS for the Man of the Woods episode. At least I can sit back and enjoy this gem of an episode
Wtf? I, never in a million years, didn’t expect a JoJotuber to be in this comment section
i have a theory that if katy had gravitated towards hyperpop, she could have pulled off her purposeful pop
Some roads, you just can't ever turn around once you've gone too far down them. And that's clearly the case for Katy Perry.
Or she could have just made catchy music and kept her messaging. Stromae is French and he talks about politics, famine, gender - all while creating a dance song. Katy is probably too ignorant to make compelling music without it turning ironic.
@@SirAndrewII bro I loved Papoutai
Also, isn't he Belgian?
@@adumba3709 yep he is!
Imagine Katy Perry feat. Dorian Electra
And now Katy is working with Dr Luke again... yikes
Dr luke was found innocent by the supreme court. She has every right to work with him. And that also proves how kesha lied that katy was also r@ped by luke along with gaga forced her to come out as a victim
I'm heavily dissapointed as well, I just hope it was more the record label's choice than Katy's (and that the record is actually good)
@@fattiesunite2288 Why are you copy and pasting this all over the comments here? It's a little weird that you're defending Dr. Rapist in the most pathetic possible way
I'm definitely reminded of American Life in some ways. Both have the awkwardness of wealthy and arguably out of touch celebrities attempting to get political well into their careers. Both attack the pop genre. Less favorably, it's easy to read both as being about their singers acting like "bad stuff exists" is a profound sentiment just because it's a new discovery for them.
American Life at least had that wartime runway horror-show video to tease us with some potential. If that video hadn’t been pulled, it could’ve been the big shocking artistic statement that made the record seem more important in hindsight than it really was. But Witness never had anything like that, so you don’t even get to wonder what could’ve been. All of Katy’s cards are face-up on the table, and there’s no good way to play them
The difference is that Madonna had been political way before the American Life album and Katy never went there before.
The difference is Madonna was able to commercially rebound after American Life.
True, just not in the US, at least not so strong
American Life is actually a solid album though. Aside from the awkward lyrics of the title track songs like X-Static Process, Easy Ride, Mother and Father, and Intervention shine as some of the greatest deep cuts of her career
Bon Appetit is honestly kind of fascinating to me. Not because it's *good,* because it really, really isn't, but because I think there was actually some kind of purpose behind it. The weird lyrics, the disturbing video imagery... to me, all of that suggests that it was supposed to be a satire. It was supposed to be a critique of sex-equals-food metaphors and men seeing women as pieces of meat. BUT... I can absolutely see why a lot of people don't get that. Because it's Katy Perry singing it. Katy Perry, who even after all the buildup of her "purposeful pop" era and Chained To The Rhythm, was still inextricably tied to shallow, substance-less songs in the public eye. People didn't get the point because *people didn't see any need to look for a point.*
I get it, but I don't think the backing music of the song and the lyrics quite vibe with each other. It feels weirdly underproduced in a way that makes me focus on the vocals, which sound slightly echo-y in a way that takes my attention off the lyrics and onto whatever reverb they put on her vocals. The visuals do a great job of being horrifying and picking up the slack for the audio, but it's a song. Divorced from the video, it just isn't cohesive enough with itself to be catchy and be something that I want to listen to, and songs have to be able to stand on their own or else any point you are or aren't making will be lost, because most of us don't watch the music videos for all the songs we listen to.
I like this concept. Unfortunately, she sang it too straightforward and the video doesn’t back it up.
But I think you’re on to something
Edit 03/2023: Demi Lovato’s “EAT ME” executed this concept quite well
huh, that's a really interesting perspective, i never thought that there's meaning in being so tacky
thats what i thought all along. I think it is satire
The song was about eating kat
"No cake under the frosting" is one of the most apt and brilliant metaphors I've ever heard, especially in this case.
I will be stealing it and using it in conversation from now until the end of time.
Like the styrofoam blocks bakeries use in displays
Is it possible to have two trainwreckords? Asking for someone else
EDIT: Nobody seems to be getting that I am referencing "Woman's World"
Would it apply to Madonna, too?
a second metallica trainwreckord (Lulu) has been teased before so yeah probably
@@chiru-lala7372 Though that could also be Lou Reed technically
Grow up
@RokoNovakGlazba it is and I'm tired of people saying Lulu is a Metallica album when it's Lou Reed AND Metallica, in that order.
i can’t believe it’s been 8 years since katy dropped dr. luke and he’s still getting work at this point 🙃
I hate how good he is at his job…
I mean, from the looks of it, being a sex pest is the sure shot way to get work in Hollywood.
And yet it’s basically been written off as bullshit that anything even happened..that’s probably why
Well, he DID win his defamation lawsuit against Kesha. So technically, everything he did is still alleged.
... Still, tho...
I’d imagine Doja’s popularity has a hand in that. It seems like she’s also going thru a weird thing right now, so time will tell.
So, I grew up in a fundamentalist Christian home. At the time that Katy Perry burst onto the scene I was on my way out of Christianity and I was also engaged to a woman who loved that kind of vapid dance pop, so I heard a ton of Katy's early output as my ex and I went out a lot while we were together. The beats and lyrics were fun and fluffy, and I forgot about her for about three or four years. Then I found out from a Cracked article that she was a Christian artist named Katy Hudson before she went mainstream. I looked up a music video she did during that period of time and I was completely knocked on my ass by it, not because of the quality of the song but because of the backing band. One of my favorite artists for a very long time was a Christian pop/punk band (that has long since transitioned into straight piano pop) named Relient K. I can't remember if the entire band was backing her in the video, but I know for sure that Matt Thiesen, the lead singer of Relient K, was. She was never so much a blip on the radar as a Christian artist, but Relient K was massive in that scene for a while, so I couldn't figure out how she'd managed that. I went down to the comments section, and lo and behold, Matt and Katy were dating at the time. Matt wrote a few songs about the aftermath of their relationship for Relient K's fourth LP, including one called "Which to Bury, Us or the Hatchet?". It was such a bizarre confluence for things for me that it still throws me a bit every I think about it.
I am a Katheryn Hudson ex - she is a Narcissist and a Witch
@@stjohnthebaptist1563 Spill the tea sis
@@stjohnthebaptist1563 I'm sorry to hear she did you wrong, saint john the baptist
Katy was also at Warped Tour at the beginning of her career. Yes, really, you can find pics and footage online!
I had no idea WTBUOTH was about her. That’s insane
The worst part about that shellfish line is that she took an already mediocre strained metaphor, where because she is a tiger she doesn't need opinions from sheep (her haters), actively made it worse and more confusing by adding "shellfish" into the mix, *and* to top it all off there is no way she puts a shellfish/selfish pun that forced into there without also totally thinking that she is just a fucking genius for adding that 'extra layer' to it. Similar to the genius/"peni(u)s colada" line from Liz Phair.*
I dunno maybe I'm biased. I do have a shellfish allergy
*for some reason I said Jewel at first.
The penius colada line came from Liz Phair
@@solesurvivor327 How could you say that with such casualty?
My bad, as many have pointed out I said Jewel did the dick joke but it was Liz Phair.
It's never a bad time to mistakenly remember Jewel when talking about crap lyrics.
Is the Tiger reference from Roar
I'm using that. "No cake under the frosting". Bloody brilliant young lad.
This episode is such a W for all of us Gen Z kids in the audience because usually when I sit down to watch Trainwreckords the episodes are about some artist I’ve maybe heard of or know a couple songs from, but don’t actually have memory of them flopping or just actually didn’t live through it. This one tho, I REMEMBER this all happening!
"unless you're armie hammer" oh my GOD
but also completely agree with your analysis about prism, which absolutely was terrible and more pointlessly terrible than witness. also realised while watching this that i was borderline expecting katy to start doing the soy latte rap from the madonna episode
That line is true though, that man is crazy.
I was not expecting “Armie Hammer is allegedy a canibal” jokes in a ToddintheShadows video, and yet here we are
When did he say that? How did I miss that
@@syvall 18:25
Bon Appetit is a sex song and also about being a product for consumption. That's at least two levels and part of the reason the video is so weird. She couldn't stop her goofiness from undercutting the metaphor.
So, between Katy and Taylor’s diss track videos toward each other:
Taylor’s Bad Blood: depicts her as someone who was backstabbed, but is an awesome, vengeful action hero with her own squad by her side.
Katy’s Swish Swish: shows her as a cartoon character in a slapstick routine that’s getting beaten at every turn and is full of awful comedy and… whatever that is at 27:32. Seriously, what is that?
Yea, not exactly the best thing you want to make as a video for your diss track, usually something you use to say you’re better than the other person or that they’re weaker than you!
It sucks too because Swish Swish is arguably the better song sound wise!
I’m sorry but the video for Bad Blood is so corny
but they never officially said those were diss tracks
27:32 is a reference to this 2017 meme ruclips.net/user/shortscbKmm_xAEro
@@cryptopian *watches* Well that’s… random. Not sure why she went with that, but okay.
Watching this again after Katy Perry signed with Dr. Luke again, you were right she didn’t have any hits to the degree she did before and he was a major player in that
Her comeback this year would’ve been fine without him (giving many people were starting to appreciate her again on social media with Teenage Dream trending). Now, she’s getting MAJOR backlash for hiring him back.
@@elijahtorres2688honestly I don’t blame her for bringing him back. The trial ended earlier this year and Luke wasn’t guilty, that said he still clearly treated Kesha very badly but that doesn’t affect Katy personally. Also, most of Teenage Dream was produced by Luke so money is also very likely involved.
@@SawdustMusic-rd8mj guilty or not, he has lost the court of public opinion and his name is like poison when other celebrities associate with him, at the very least online
well, the new song she released with him was terrible. i doubt it'll have longevity like the hits from her peak. it's probably gonna be like justin timberlake's filthy, ridiculed then drop off the charts with the blink of an eye.
@@sirgemini5743Which it did, its only a few days since Woman's World and it already dropped of the charts, not even in the Top 200 ☠️