I only know a few words of the French language, but what I find interesting in the pacenotes delivery of the French-speaking crews -- and in the way the cooperation of the crew works -- is that: a) it is often that the co-driver repeats a sequence of calls a second time, if only there is time to do that, b) quite a few co-drivers have a habit of hurrying up their drivers, especially on the exit of a slow corner, with a shout of "Allez!" :). I don't have tons of experience in watching onboards of various crews from around the world, and I'm not saying that these phenomena don't appear elsewhere, but they do seem to somewhat characteristic of the francophone rally crews.
I also know French only to a limited extent. However, I know numbers throughout & my observation from French rally pace notes is that all drivers (those I've heard) who use French as their pace note language have their way of describing turn tightness based on radius degrees or radians. Additionally, this degree format is exclusively a language-specific aspect. A numbering system (usually 1-6) in either order, higher number for slighter & lower for tighter turns or the other way round, & descriptive words are in use in other-language pace notes or those I know/can identify to any extent.
@@TheJokerit19 Mmmm, don't want to argue, but are you quite sure of that? Indeed, the French (BTW, not only them) have a habit of using a special call for the corners are almost exactly right-angle. In English-language pacenotes that's a "square right" or "square left", but this sort of call normally appears in only descriptive systems (i.e. those where corners' tightness comes as "flat", "easy", "fast", "key", etc.). In French pacenotes, however, even if a numerical scale is used for corner tightness, a square corner would still be called by its propriety of being 90 degrees -- literally: "quatre-vingt-dix" in French. I don't think they use degrees to describe any other corners, normally.
@@barsorrro I'm decently sure they also use degrees for corners other than 90-degree ones normally. At least as far as my interpretation goes. Here are some examples: ruclips.net/video/JoIEjnx2-Og/видео.html ruclips.net/video/GXwWPdrcMmU/видео.html ruclips.net/video/l5SBCNYS3YM/видео.html ruclips.net/video/JHRxdalWctY/видео.html (this one weirdly has 90 for some corners that aren't sharp square-angled) ruclips.net/video/T5V75vJtBVI/видео.html ruclips.net/video/jlkRmBz6AOc/видео.html ruclips.net/video/_kjutFcsqKQ/видео.html Whenever two or three-digit numbers appear with the meter word following, they're distance references & corner/bend tightness in degrees whenever without. I also know droit(e) & gauche for right & left, & long(ue) used for continuous turns. Words besides numbers I care are the equivalents for 'opens' & 'tightens' in English pace notes, ouvre & ferme respectively, or alternatively + & - for the same purpose alongside a radius number reference. These are my general observations from French pace notes, based on my interpretation of specific meanings for given purposes.
@@TheJokerit19 First of all, thank you for the links to all those excellent onboards. I've only gone (roughly :)) through the first four of them, and that with nearly all of my focus directed solely at the notes-reading. I'll be sure to watch them all, also, and perhaps even primarily, for the pleasure of watching those runs. Thank you again! As to the subject of our conversation, I believe we might be at a similar level of ability to recognize the note calls in French, although I'm quite ready to assume you're better at it. I must admit I found this material you gave there very challenging and I didn't come up with too much in the way of conclusions so far. But I have to grant you that at least in case of the first of the onboards (that of Duval) I was fairly sure that a call like "45 (degrees)" kept repeating itself there, so you definitely may be onto something. As for the following couple of onboards I seemed to have an impression that perhaps it's a custom of French pacenoting that you don't actually designate corner tightness all the time. I think the crews often use those calls "gauchie" and "droitie" (slight left, slight right), then they have the words like "legere" (slow) and "milieu" (which, I think is also something like "slower"), then they have the hairpins, the squares, probably the "45s", and... well, maybe that's all they really need? At least on twisty events where it's more about rhythm than trying to carry as much speed through a corner as you can. I don't know. But, AFAIK, the Finnish pacenotes make do with just four corner-tightness designations, so I wouldn't be all too surprised if we were trying to hear some numbers describing corners' difficulty which just weren't there :).
@@barsorrro I agree, although having watched Duval's 2003 Rally Corsica onboard a few times before, I haven't noted 45 repeatedly appearing. I'll watch again in full someday for memory refreshment in case I've missed this particular detail, as keeping up with what number is for what specific corner is sometimes challenging, given the corners come around in quick succession on Corsica roads. The numbers I've noted most repeatedly in this onboard are 25, 60, & 70 (the last in simpler Swiss alternative form septante). Interesting notes on additional words used for descriptive purposes that I've never really picked up since numbers are the easiest for me to distinguish. The last point on Finnish pace notes is true for the most part, with most drivers using descriptive words effectively equivalent to full throttle/easy/slight, medium, slow/very slow, etc., somewhat similar to Richard Burns' tightness designations. Among Finnish drivers, both present & former, Latvala is the only exception I've noted using a numerical scale with 1 being an absolute flat-out corner & 7 (or something among the highest single-digits) a very tight corner. Similarly, Evans & Breen use a single-digit numerical scale this way round, while most use a higher number for slighter corner-lower for tighter order, like in Dirt Rally series & other rally games, which is my preference partly thanks to these games, but also because I find this order more fitting than the less-used order.
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Why the dislikes?! Ridiculous! Really cool onboard: great camera positioning -- better than in works Xsaras of the day.
I only know a few words of the French language, but what I find interesting in the pacenotes delivery of the French-speaking crews -- and in the way the cooperation of the crew works -- is that: a) it is often that the co-driver repeats a sequence of calls a second time, if only there is time to do that, b) quite a few co-drivers have a habit of hurrying up their drivers, especially on the exit of a slow corner, with a shout of "Allez!" :).
I don't have tons of experience in watching onboards of various crews from around the world, and I'm not saying that these phenomena don't appear elsewhere, but they do seem to somewhat characteristic of the francophone rally crews.
I also know French only to a limited extent.
However, I know numbers throughout & my observation from French rally pace notes is that all drivers (those I've heard) who use French as their pace note language have their way of describing turn tightness based on radius degrees or radians.
Additionally, this degree format is exclusively a language-specific aspect.
A numbering system (usually 1-6) in either order, higher number for slighter & lower for tighter turns or the other way round, & descriptive words are in use in other-language pace notes or those I know/can identify to any extent.
@@TheJokerit19 Mmmm, don't want to argue, but are you quite sure of that? Indeed, the French (BTW, not only them) have a habit of using a special call for the corners are almost exactly right-angle. In English-language pacenotes that's a "square right" or "square left", but this sort of call normally appears in only descriptive systems (i.e. those where corners' tightness comes as "flat", "easy", "fast", "key", etc.). In French pacenotes, however, even if a numerical scale is used for corner tightness, a square corner would still be called by its propriety of being 90 degrees -- literally: "quatre-vingt-dix" in French. I don't think they use degrees to describe any other corners, normally.
@@barsorrro I'm decently sure they also use degrees for corners other than 90-degree ones normally. At least as far as my interpretation goes.
Here are some examples:
ruclips.net/video/JoIEjnx2-Og/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/GXwWPdrcMmU/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/l5SBCNYS3YM/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/JHRxdalWctY/видео.html (this one weirdly has 90 for some corners that aren't sharp square-angled)
ruclips.net/video/T5V75vJtBVI/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/jlkRmBz6AOc/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/_kjutFcsqKQ/видео.html
Whenever two or three-digit numbers appear with the meter word following, they're distance references & corner/bend tightness in degrees whenever without.
I also know droit(e) & gauche for right & left, & long(ue) used for continuous turns.
Words besides numbers I care are the equivalents for 'opens' & 'tightens' in English pace notes, ouvre & ferme respectively, or alternatively + & - for the same purpose alongside a radius number reference.
These are my general observations from French pace notes, based on my interpretation of specific meanings for given purposes.
@@TheJokerit19 First of all, thank you for the links to all those excellent onboards. I've only gone (roughly :)) through the first four of them, and that with nearly all of my focus directed solely at the notes-reading. I'll be sure to watch them all, also, and perhaps even primarily, for the pleasure of watching those runs. Thank you again!
As to the subject of our conversation, I believe we might be at a similar level of ability to recognize the note calls in French, although I'm quite ready to assume you're better at it. I must admit I found this material you gave there very challenging and I didn't come up with too much in the way of conclusions so far. But I have to grant you that at least in case of the first of the onboards (that of Duval) I was fairly sure that a call like "45 (degrees)" kept repeating itself there, so you definitely may be onto something. As for the following couple of onboards I seemed to have an impression that perhaps it's a custom of French pacenoting that you don't actually designate corner tightness all the time. I think the crews often use those calls "gauchie" and "droitie" (slight left, slight right), then they have the words like "legere" (slow) and "milieu" (which, I think is also something like "slower"), then they have the hairpins, the squares, probably the "45s", and... well, maybe that's all they really need? At least on twisty events where it's more about rhythm than trying to carry as much speed through a corner as you can. I don't know. But, AFAIK, the Finnish pacenotes make do with just four corner-tightness designations, so I wouldn't be all too surprised if we were trying to hear some numbers describing corners' difficulty which just weren't there :).
@@barsorrro I agree, although having watched Duval's 2003 Rally Corsica onboard a few times before, I haven't noted 45 repeatedly appearing.
I'll watch again in full someday for memory refreshment in case I've missed this particular detail, as keeping up with what number is for what specific corner is sometimes challenging, given the corners come around in quick succession on Corsica roads.
The numbers I've noted most repeatedly in this onboard are 25, 60, & 70 (the last in simpler Swiss alternative form septante).
Interesting notes on additional words used for descriptive purposes that I've never really picked up since numbers are the easiest for me to distinguish.
The last point on Finnish pace notes is true for the most part, with most drivers using descriptive words effectively equivalent to full throttle/easy/slight, medium, slow/very slow, etc., somewhat similar to Richard Burns' tightness designations.
Among Finnish drivers, both present & former, Latvala is the only exception I've noted using a numerical scale with 1 being an absolute flat-out corner & 7 (or something among the highest single-digits) a very tight corner.
Similarly, Evans & Breen use a single-digit numerical scale this way round, while most use a higher number for slighter corner-lower for tighter order, like in Dirt Rally series & other rally games, which is my preference partly thanks to these games, but also because I find this order more fitting than the less-used order.
La meilleure wrc que j'ai connu
Il fais pas sens blanc quand il roule