Really great video here, Thomas. High quality breakdown that’s simple and easy to understand. I love how you broke down the different speeds with different types of clubs. Most channels just switch from club to club but don’t change the swing speed to relate different level golfers 💯⛳️👍🏼
@@swinglabperformancegolf I've had to face just this problem, 10 years ago I fitted at a 6 iron speed nearing 80, but since then, I've had back problems and dialed my speed back a lot, and these players irons don't go anywhere, they come out low, feel like I'm hitting a rock. I've picked up a lot of shots from a lot of distances with fairway woods and the like, where I can put a five wood off the grass pretty high, shape it from 150 or 160, bounce in front have a chance at a green. my scoring is still about the same. At the same time, I'm having to hit a 7 or 8 from 130, but have lost trust in my mid irons, I'm kind of screwed from 145 to 120. I'm pretty happy 110 and under with my 9 through wedges. I'm thinking a strong 6 through 8 or even 9, with extra sole, extra distance, extra height, will give me more shots at the green.
Driver is for distance, every other club is for precision. It doesn’t really matter how far you can hit your 7 iron as long as it goes a predictable distance.
Not really.. Knowing you carry it 206, as demonstrated, is pretty useless if you can't stop it.. I agree it needs to be predictable, but you also need other number to be good for it to be effective / optimal.
My 7 goes about 160 on average nowadays. If I’m swinging well, it can go around 185. At this point in my life (age 61) I’m willing to live with the inconsistency, as I’m beginning to find more consistency with the longer distance. Thing is that those swings are the ones that feel easiest, almost effortless. Irons are Mizuno MP54
I’ve always enjoyed how you explained things, Thomas. This is more helpful in explaining which clubs might be best suited for which players compared to marketing campaigns which group too many players together by handicap. I think swing speed is very insightful. I also think it’s good to see how taking a bit off affects distance and dispersion when you’re more concerned about contact and club face rather than distance.
This was a fantastic video, Thomas. One of the best I've ever seen on club Fitting/specs on YT and I watch them all. Very Indepth info across the board with the full set of data to show each club,s showing the optimal range as well really puts it into perspective where you could/should be. The only other thing I'd like to see is almost the exact same test with someone that doesn't play at scartch or plus level. Someone that isnt' going to hit the highest possible smash factor for irons. But still more of these with you would be great. Perhaps the same with driver. Different lofts at say 85, 100 and 115 mph swings.
Glad I found you Thomas. This is an interesting topic in choosing irons based upon swing speed. I am currently swinging the new Taylormade Stealth irons. I left Ping. I had g425 irons. Over the years (now 74) I have lost distance. My swing is now in the low 70’s. I am happy with the distance, dispersion, and landing angle with Stealth. I hit my 7i carrying 145-150 which makes me mentally satisfied. I am a 9 handicap. You are absolutely right on matching speed with the proper irons. Thank you for the video. Looking for more videos from you in the future.
Great test Thomas. I've seen something similar before where the tester varied his angle of attack but kept the swing speed the same. In almost all cases the player, with an angle of attack 3-5 degrees down on a 7 iron, gets better results with traditional lofted clubs. Only where the angle of attack was more neutral (flippy) do the modern stronger lofted irons make more sense.
Interesting. I average -4.3 and 78-80 mph 7 iron speed. I recently tested the T150s (32 degree 7i) and loved the spin, launch, and peak height I saw. Distance was only about 142-145 carry but it was controllable. I’m looking forward to breaking these things in.
I play the stealth irons, s300 shafts as my swing speed is around 85 and play Callaway Supersoft ball. I've always hit more up with irons and I consistently carry 165 with my 7 iron and my landing angle is around 42 degrees. When I got fit, I wanted more distance with my irons vs my old set as I was only carrying about 140 with my previous 7 iron. It's all about how YOU hit the ball. I'm extremely happy with my stealth set :)
Great looking swing, by the way. I must say it is difficult to find a club "fitter" instead of a club "salesperson." Very interesting information. Thanks!
Wow. 28 degrees on a 7 iron? When I started repairing/building clubs, that was a 5 iron. The length is a little less than the 5's of that era, 37.25 vs 37.5. And a 5 iron with 21 degrees? When I started playing in the early 70's, that was a 2 iron! That 4 iron is almost as low a loft as Jack Nicklaus' 1 iron, or Tiger Woods' 2 iron. This is the old design conveyor belt in action. Drop the low numbers off one end, and add wedges at the other. Change the number on the bottom of the club, basically. Except here, they didn't add an extra wedge, they spread the loft gaps out to 6 degrees instead of 4, or 5 in more modern designs. That's going to make distance gaps wider, and will lead to less precise shooting around the greens. That's the exact opposite of what you want with a wedge in your hand. As for the other end of the set, well the 4 and 5 iron are simply too long and too low in loft for an average mid to high handicapper to hit well. They don't get enough back spin to offset sidespin, and with the longer clubs their usual over the top swing pattern will cause less square face contact, so sidespin will be more of a problem. They also probably won't have the swing speed to get these clubs up in the air to carry for good distance, or stop on the green. These are sold as game improvement clubs, but they are really just the opposite. All they do is flatter golfers with artificial promises of extra distance, IMO.
I swing my 7 roughly 100mph. I wish I knew all this prior to buying clubs a couple years ago as I was told to get game improvement irons based on my handicap with nothing mentioned about my speed. I’ve been thru 3 sets of clubs in the last year and have now settled on the p7mc’s. Still averaging 190 carry with 135 ball speed. But more spin and higher decent angle has made it much better for me.
Very informative video, as usual. Do you feel it is ridiculous to call these irons by the number shown on the clubhead? Isn't it better to compare a 34-degree iron with another brand's 34-degree iron? These are the specs of the 5-iron, 6-iron, and 7-iron of the three brands. 26, 30, 34 23.5, 26.5, 30 21, 24, 28 (this last set had a slightly longer length of shaft as well) The last brand's 7 iron was nearly the same loft as the first brand's 5-iron! The first brand's seven iron has more loft that the last brand's 8 iron! You stated that your 7-iron has the same loft as the first brand and you normally hit a 7-iron about 180. How far do you hit your 5-iron? It's probably about as far as the last brand's seven iron (200+ yards). I think there needs to be some consistency in what we call a 7-iron across all brands or, when we do comparisons, we should really be comparing same lofts regardless of the useless number under the sole of the clubhead.
It’s for these reasons I think all clubs should have their loft stamped. Like you have on driver, woods, wedges and even usually hybrids. Most irons don’t do this and it causes confusion too often. I always wondered why my playing partners smashed irons longer than me but not the woods and hybrids - turns out their irons are all 4-5 degrees more aggressive. Their 8 iron is equivalent to my 5-6 iron. What happens though is they have massive gapping between 9/PW and their wedges which normally start at a 52. They then get super pissed that the 52 never flies (they see it as close to their PW but in realty with their irons the degree gapping is like 11-12 - far too big). For me the gap between PW and my 52 is only 6. Standard lofts are much much better for most half decent players. But having lofts stamped on all irons would help those new to golf massively. Also would stop the silly ego nonsense of how far you hit a 7iron!
Totally agree. I started as a kid in the late 70's playing old school forged blades - thin top line, no offset, standard lofts. To this day I still play clubs that fit that description. My current clubs are TaylorMade circa 2010 - even bought the 2 iron when I ordered the set. Only had 4 sets my entire life, never fell for the marketing hype that has guys buying new sets constantly chasing distance or accuracy.
I disagree as shaft also contributes to distance and height. I use Srixon Z785s with 130g shafts and couldn't care less if someone else uses Stealths with 95g shafts. Even if the loft was stamped ppl can still get it adjusted so it means nothing or could extend shaft length. Play your own game as there is also the extra consideration of dynamic loft...
Iron Lofts are Published by every Manufacturer for each Model made. It's an easy enough search, even for older models as comparisons. The Numbers are Stamped for Identification purposes, 7 goes Farther than 8, 6 goes Farther than 7.
Lol! Can't even get my driver 190! Old man swing speed! Just started golf, so working on my ball contact first which has gotten much better.Distance not a concern at the moment. Great video!
Great idea - excellend execution. Really clear to me. I was literally wondering this as I was on the range today if my numbers was OK for around 82 mph. Really interesting to see this across speeds ans iron lofts. 👍 Keep making videos where mortal/average swing speeds are used 😅
What you should be hitting? 1. I am over 53 2. Very bad ankle. 3. 2 full spine compressions. 4. 4 years of competitive mountain bike racing.. So my body is a dam mess.. i probably wont change from my Ben Hogan Apex Plus, looks are a 10,softness is buttery,.. so my 7 is a 165 club.. unless i pure it.. than its a 185... bad shot,ugh 140ish..golf sure is odd game
Very interesting. This explains why I hit a higher lofted iron farther than the lower lofted ones. I went from. a 30 degree to a 32 degree 7 iron and hit it farther. Thanks for the testing.
I used to play Ping i15's (33deg) and switched to Mizuno Pro 225's (30deg)... i15's were a 155-160 carry with a low/mid ball flight and 225's are a 160-165 carry with a high(er) ball flight. At 56, I dropped from a solid 8HC (prior 5 years) to a solid 5HC over the last 9 months I've owned the Mizuno's. I did take two 1-hr iron lessons prior to getting the Mizuno's but I honestly think the drop in HC was due more in part to (10yr) newer irons.
I found similar differences. I am currently playing Mizuno JPX921 Tour irons (34 deg 7 iron) and have been fit for Titleist T200's (30.5 deg 7 iron). I found that in fitting I was carrying the T200's about 12 yards further and like you I was getting a higher trajectory, better peak height and landing angle numbers. I'm playing to a 12 HC as of the end of last season. I have had rounds, and long strings of holes over the last couple years that tell me I could be much lower.....I'm really looking forward to next season and the difference the T200's will make in my game. I am doing some lessons in the off season for the first time in a really long time - so I won't know for certain if it is all on the clubs, but I'm expecting to be in the 7-8 HC range by the middle of next season.
@@chrisgilligan4968 I'm sure the combination of the New T200's and a couple lessons will do wonders for you... my routine to drop my HC was range time once a week and I played once a week. Started with chipping for about 1/2hr, I hit 10 balls from each spot for about 30-40 minutes. Then l hit a large bucket focusing on irons (P, 7 an then 5 or 4 iron) and really focused on achieving the proper ball flights. Then I putted for about 40 minutes so total routine was about 2.5hrs, 3 hrs max. I've since moved and my new course only allows hitting off of mats so for the last 5 months, I've rarely practiced. I now play twice a week consistently but my HC rose from a 4.8 to a 7 (currently a 6.5). I recently shot a 74 with 7 birdies, 3 dbl bogeys and 3 bogeys. I also just shot a 43, 36... I really, really miss my weekly range time, its so important to consistently lowering your scores. Good luck and enjoy those new clubs!
Summer distance with my KBS (stock 120s) P7MB (last model) = 175 When the round gets going and I get tired usually drops to around 163ish. I wish I could keep my stamina up. What really kills is slow play and waiting for the group in front of us. Especially if we’re at the tee.
Love this video. Helping me a lot who just started checking his data more regularly. I’m in between most stats at 82mph swing of the p790 and p7mc with my rogue st pros. Would be really cool to see a 9i and 5i to compare an entire bag! Thanks a lot
Very useful. Although I am 82, I still play forged blades with traditional lofts. They are Chicago Classics by Bob Evans design, forged in Taiwan probably around 1995 and virtually identical to Mizuno MP-33s that I previously owned. Evans was head of tour operations and product management for McGregor Golf. My 7 iron loft has been measured at 34 and once at 35. Not sure why the fitter's numbers differed. Anyway, with age I of course get less carry, height, spin, descent angle, etc. and worry about it. I have been working a lot at the PGA Superstore practice bays in order to get actual data for all my clubs and to improve my swing. But as things stand at the moment, with my own ball, in this case the new Mizuno RB Tour x, I can get ball speed 96-97, no club speed data available on their Foresight GCHawk overhead monitors, launch angle 22-24, back spin 4350-4450, height 70-75, descent angle 42-43.5, carry 132-135, total 143-147. These numbers seem to correspond quite well to yours at 70mph, keeping mind that with your slightly higher ball speed I would get a bit more spin and carry, but I am getting a bit more height and a bit higher descent angle. So I feel quite encouraged by your test results, for which I thank you. It also gives me renewed confidence in continuing to play my forged blades because I just like the feel and look of them. I could get maybe one club more distance by playing a stronger lofted club, but it would not help stop the ball on the green, which is very important, and there is no need to spend $1,300 or so on new clubs.
Yes, it depends on your strength and club speeds. I played with a friend who could if he wanted to hit the 7 iron 220-230 yards which was amazing. It was fun to play along side of him on the golf course.
This is a very informative video. Thank you so much for the free advice. I have no idea how fast I swing by there, but I have been measured at 95-98 with my driver on the TrackMan. What swing speed do you think that translates to 7 for a iron with 34 degrees of loft, assuming I swing consistently?
Was this test using the same shaft for all speeds? If it was, that would explain the results. Had you used the shaft to match the speed, the spin should have increased with each rise in speed, wouldn't it? Using the right shaft to match the head is paramount for any golfer, hence why a good club/shaft fitting is recommended.
i swing my 7 iron at 95 mph, but i am a beginner golfer, with some geotech kaisas irons (game improvement i guess) i get it to 170 yards^^ So i guess i should work on my mechanics first? What exactly should i look at the most? I take a 1 hr lesson every 1 or 2 months, my attack angle seems fine, but what else should i maybe focus on? Just looking for suggestions, obv hard to tell without seeing a swing.
Yes, this stacks up. I hit my 7i (Mizuno MP18) at around 171 carry. I am actually going in for an iron fitting next week and one of the clubs I will be looking at is the P790. I am thinking I can get a bit more distance and not sacrifice stopping power because I have a decent swing speed, but we will see. This video was very helpful, I know what to look for now on the monitor.
I have the p790 5-pw. Carry 7 175 … 9 times out of 10. Every so many balls it will jump to over 190yards i cant put my finger on why. But they’re awesome clubs.
@robertbarnes1226 hmm. That is a bit of a worry. That is the one thing about blades that I do love. Yes, I am giving up some distance with mishits, but they are so consistent. Still, as I get older, another club length is appealing. If mu fitting shows that I am buying them.
@@trxe420 i have them with the MMC Graphite and they feel so good, coming from mp-33/rifle blades so wanted less impact and comfort, got what i wanted but everything said above i agree with. I miss the consistency but wouldn't go back.
This a great video!!! Thanks a lot for doing this!!! What would be super interesting as well would be to compare e.g. a 7i with different shaft flex and weight with the same as well as different swing speeds 🙂
This is a good video but I think there are a couple of caveats involved here. This vid highlights the best clubs for good ball strikers and their clubhead speeds. To be honest, good ball strikers probably have played for quite a few years and already know these things. I myself have changed to a player distance iron (the P790s to be exact) because I am 56 and my clubhead speeds have dropped enough to make using my older Hogans no longer viable. It sucks to get old. I actually tried the precursor to the Stealths (Sim2s) and found that I hit them pretty far but struggled to control the left right movement due to the offset. I'm a decent striker (not nearly as good as you) so I know the Sim2s were not the clubs I should be hitting. My issue is that someone that is relatively new to the game or not necessarily a decent striker of the ball might come away looking at clubhead speed as the biggest reason to purchase a set of irons and I disagree with this. If you look at your efficiency in your strikes they are much better than the average golfer (which is expected) and significantly better than someone that is nothing more than a 'casual' golfer. If someone has a 90mph swing speed but can't hit the center of the club to save his life then putting that person in P7MBs probably would be disasterous. Probably at least the P790s if not the Stealths would be an easier club to learn to play. As the swing improves and strikes improve then consideration for harder to hit irons should happen.
This is a great point. The caveat is primarily for new players who are young and athletic and have swing speeds that are beyond their abilities. The lower swing speed players almost across the board would benefit from playing either a players distance iron, or game improvement iron both for the additional distance, but also for the additional forgiveness on off centre hits. You're also right....getting old sucks. I am making the move to Titleist T200's this offseason to combat some of the distance woes, mostly on off centre hits, but also feel like hitting one club less into the greens will help get a tighter dispersion. I'll be 56 this summer and I'm hoping to move my handicap to the the lowest it's been in my life in the upcoming season!!
Hi, just a heads up and a bit of help for future videos. You need to adjust the lofts to the correct number on Trackman so the optimiser works correctly. You’ll find the edit loft/lie section when you click on adding a club or on the strike page (modify club). All the best
I have the stealth and hit my 7i on average 180yds. Not sure about my swing speed, spin and such but I stick almost every green I hit with it. I play the MaxFli SoftFli balls. I guess it all truly depends on the persons swing and such regarding how much spin and landing angle they get. And I also don’t believe the roll out and such on these simulators along with most of their numbers. I’ve seen guys get fitted using one and goes out on the course and it’s way different in every way
Thank you for the great info. It will help me in my new club purchase. One thing I would recommend, especially for us newbie’s , is that you somehow highlight or laser pointer the information on the graph. Hard to follow but valuable information just the same..Thanks again!
Just bought a set of the Stealth irons. Was getting near identical spin numbers to you in the high 4000 rpm range. Had them bend all the clubs 2* weak as I was carrying near 215 on the sim. Hope I can make sense of them.
without changing shafts to match swing speed (you didn't say anything so no idea what you did), not sure how this data means much but interesting to see
Well the club/shaft/ball combo is all about hitting the correct spin window But if you’re just talking about the ball journey withs in two months and you would lose a bit of distance
@@JaxReds i feel that for players like me that need the distance help, I would be curious to see the impact a higher spinning ball has when hit by rocket launcher irons.
@@louispounds7486 yeah its interesting, I can actually attest to this I’m left-handed and my fitter could only get the paradigm irons for his fitting event in a lefty To sum me up as a golfer I’m really fast I play. My seven iron at 210-20 yards. He wanted me in the chrome soft ex already anyways, but we tested the paradimes with that kind of as a joke and I was reaching carry numbers of 247 yards with a fade. I wasn’t even hitting a draw. . Those things are so long. It genuinely made me consider putting a four iron in the bag as a driving iron.
My 7-iron distance is 165 yards which I think is pretty normal and play P770 irons. I initially got the 790’s and my 7 was going 180. I couldn’t get use to it. I’ve played with a 34 degree 7 iron for as long as I can remember and at 33 degrees, it was something I’ve gotten use to.
What’s troubling with this is the Stealth is targeted at higher handicappers who very likely have slowish swing speeds. This very reason is why Mizuno and Ping have “High Launch” versions of their GI Irons.
Maybe I'm a moron but does this show that TaylorMade P7MC works rather well at swing speeds around 70 mph, and that you are better off with those irons compared to the other ones? I'd be happy to hear some thoughts on comparing these same irons but with the same lofts; e.g. how would the stats differ between a P7MC 7 iron (34°) versus P790 8 iron (35°) and a Stealth 8-9 iron (32° and 37°), which have similar lofts. Alright, God bless and cheers!
Lofts that are the same or within one degree difference and swung at the same clubhead speed will produce much closer carry and total distances and spin rates.
What this video doesn't take into consideration is quality of strike. Thomas hits the centre of the face on virtually every shot. For a golfer that swings slower, it is often (but not always) the case that they aren't as good a player, and don't hit the middle as often. This is where the other 2 clubs will outshine the players club like the P7MC....when you don't hit the middle on that club - your carry distance could be easily 15-20 yards short of what you hit when you hit it solid. With the more forgiving clubs that difference shrinks considerably....which will make a significant impact on the scorecard!!
Thank you Thomas 👏. Finally, someone doing a straight forward test to clearly demonstrate that at ALL swing speeds, loft is your friend (albeit maybe not for flippers). And you dispelled the marketing hype, often used in fittings, that claims GI tech creates height and landing-angle that offsets the lower spin from the lower lofts. Clearly this is NOT true for slower swing speeds (for good strikers of the ball). Unless you are a links-only player, PD and GI clubs make the game harder, not easier.
Everyone's launch conditions are different. I am not a "flipper" and have been playing Mizuno JPX921 Tour irons (traditional lots like the P7MC) the past couple season. I was fit for the Titleist T200 irons a couple weeks ago and based on back to back testing with my own clubs, the T200's launch higher, have a higher peak height, and better landing angle. I've been playing golf for 38 years and while I don't hit the centre of the face every shot, I'm a decent player, with a decent swing....just not blessed to be very tall, and a little past my prime at 56. I swing at about 80 mph on 7 iron and am honestly looking forward to getting the new set and bringing my HC down this summer.
I’m 67 senior golfer. 7 iron distance only 120 with club speed mid 69’s. Playing Callaway Mavrik irons with regular stock graphite shaft. Thoughts on possible changes? Love your videos. 😊
Great video! very informative. I have Cobra F9 irons and my 7 iron carries about 145 but rolls out to 160...cannot hold a green. I miss my old Irons that went higher and shorter but landed softer. Swing speed is 75-80
A simple adjustment could be bending your current irons 1-2 weaker which will increase spin and stopping power. You may lose a couple yards in carry but could be worth it - Thomas
I play T100 irons. My 7i carry is normally 160-165. I could hit it 175-180 in a P790 but I couldnt get it to stop quickly so took less distance for more consistency.
First of all - it's a great test that you've put together here. Comparing 3 models and also across 3 different swing speeds....the only thing missing is the drop off in consistency of strike towards weaker players (you hit the centre of the face on pretty much every shot). Following up on the question of the thumbnail - would you say that there is a sweet spot in terms of how far you hit your 7 iron as it relates to scoring? Would a decent player who swings at 80 mph expect to see an improvement in scoring by moving from the players irons to the players distance irons? I'm in the ~80 mph 7 iron camp (~12 handicap)...I'm currently playing the Mizuno JPX921 Tour irons....very similar the the P7MC irons (I carry the 7 iron ~155). I have been fit for the Titleist T200 irons mostly for consistency of distance on off centre hits (in fitting I was carrying the 7 iron ~167). I'm not playing enough to hit the centre of the face on every shot and find with my current irons I'm losing 15+ yards on misses - whereas with the T200's most misses the drop off is 5-10 yards due to the additional forgiveness. With more shots hitting the green, or being a short chip from the fringe instead of a more difficult pitch from further back I'm expecting to save a few shots a round. Also seems like I am getting a higher peak height and better landing angle with the T200's than my current set...so even though the spin numbers are down by a few hundred revs, I am anticipating similar stopping power on the greens. I'm wondering if I should expect to see scoring benefits from hitting the irons further? Is there any logic in expecting tighter dispersion hitting an 8 iron into greens where I would have to play a 7 with my current set? The corresponding lofts are basically the same, but the club is shorter which in theory should offer some measure of better control - no??
Thomas ty I've been following you for years now and I can always count on efficiency with your reviews so ty, not sure you'll answer this question because I believe your still a fitter too, does a shaft matter for a set of Irons with a mid to low teen HC, who's boarding on being senior?? I'm pretty educated with flex, wieght, and lenth, I upgraded my Mizuno pro 225 with the i95 reg, steelfiber, without trying stock first? it comes out to a pretty hefty price tag when all said and done and wasn't sure it was necessary! Thanks Thomas!
Lofts on irons are so ridiculous now. My PW is 47 degrees. Played with my best friend’s kid the other day and he’s hitting a PW over 150 yards. I looked it up and it was a 43 degree loft. Clubs on average are 1-2 clubs stronger lofted than they were 20 years ago.
My 7 iron is 35°, a comfortable 170 shot with an apex of about 100-110 feet, landing soft and dying where it drops. If I want more distance, I simply club up. Of course, there are times when I need to hit it differing distances for different shots but unless I'm punching it, I want it coming in from on high, even in the wind.
Your swing speed would be in the neighbourhood of Thomas' full swing speed....and as such you should be playing traditionally lofted clubs. For players with a slower swing speed - the courses aren't shorter. Almost all of the players distance, and game improvement irons have very low CG which helps promote a high ball flight. I swing at 80 mph and hit my Mizuno JPX921 Tour 7 iron about 155 yards with a land angle of about 40 degrees and spin at about 6500. I just got fit for the Titleist T200 irons where into the same greens I'll now be hitting 8 iron that will spin around 6300 but with a land angle about 44 degrees. My ball speed is considerably higher, and my peak height and land angle all improved with the players distance irons. I play to a 12 handicap as of the end of last season....between the new irons, and some lessons I am taking in the off season I am expecting to shave 4-5 strokes off my handicap this summer!!
This is a great test/comparison…supports some of my thoughts/theories…I’m a slower swinger these days due to age (54), having had both hips replaced, and other physical limitations due to arthritis…however, I’m a solid striker of the ball with a fair amount of forward shaft lean…so, when I try to play a player distance iron or GI club, i find they fly much too low…is that because the CG is lowered on them for people who tend to swing without shaft lean and hit it really low on the face? That’s part of my theory…I tried playing a set of JPX 923 HMPs and hit them too low…tried the P790s, same thing…So, now I’m playing T150s and they seem to be a good blend with a nice height in the 80s with a 7 iron and between 43-45 degrees landing angle and about 160 on the distance…my 7 iron swing speed is now in the low 80s…two years ago after surgery and before the last two years of rehab and stretching it was mid to high 70s…
Air temp, humidity & elevation of the course are major factors. US desert, 100 deg, 6% humidity at 4,000 ft is way different than sea level, high humidity.
As a beginner golfer - getting the ball up and flying is step 1. You're not getting much out of comparing yourself to a very accomplished golfer who's driver swing is probably 110-115 mph.
My numbers with my i210 7 iron match exactly yours for 70mph swingspeed traditional loft. I think you're saying they're broadly optimal numbers. I've been thinking of moving to something to give me more distance but from what you're saying I should stick with what I have??
Good information but there are a couple of exceptions to this experiment. The main one is that the huge increase in distance is not factored in. If your distance improved by 30 yards from the MC to the Stealth then you should be comparing the club from each set that hits the ball the same distance. For example; what club from each set is needed to hit the ball 175 yards. That would be at least 2-3 clubs less with the Stealth andwould no longer be a 7 iron. With less club your overall height, landing angle and spin would increase significantly.
Nice to find you Thomas. I was wondering where you went to. I have a GC3 and swing around 80-84mph. When I absolutely center strike it with my 34 degree blade I see smash at 1.30-1.34 and balls speeds 106-110 max with spin around 7k. With a 32 degree Miura CB-302 cavity, ball speed, carry and smash stays the about the same for all numbers except spin which drops to the 5500 range. I don't understand how you are seeing ball speeds so much higher unless GC3 and Trackman just have differences? Also, I play at 5500 feet elevation and it seems like the extra spin of the blades help the ball stay in the thinner air up here. Do you have any thoughts? Thanks
It used to go 150 yards but now, at 64, 10 years later and 75 lbs later it is only going 135 yards. I must get back in shape and in turn I need to get my speed back up from 71 mph to 78 or so.
I' m checking perhaps to much you tube reviews, and yours are great! Currently i'm playing me MP53 and looking for new clubs, my 7 iron clubspeed is approx 80 mph ,launch mid high and my Hcp is 11 needs to go back to single, age 58 Question is what to choose: T150 or T200 of 223 or 225 pro, or even a JPX923 forged Aim is 153 Yards and at least 5000 spin. Please advise me. And regarding driver what suites me beter TSR2 or Stealth 2? Both great drivers but what is more forgiving? Many thanks, Hans
Well I went with epic forged that went far but never would stop on green. It was really nice to get 180 out of 6 iron but scores went through the roof. Went back to t100 6 iron 155 an back to scoring in 70’s.
I got the stealth 2 weeks ago when I picked up golf (played college baseball) and I carry it 195 yards. Maybe I should I don’t more research before buy my iron set
The main concern is if you have speed you may get some well struck shots that can surprise you and fly the green. If you are consistently hitting the distance then a little more distance never hurts - Thomas
A really good review, the Stealth should be described as a short 4 iron not a strong 7 iron. So many of my friends now carry 4 or 5 wedges and now struggle to hold the ball on a green with a hazard in front using irons that are too strong. I will have to hang on to my current irons.
There is definitely "going to far" with irons like Thomas mentions in the clip. Most of the players distance clubs use CG to create a higher ball flight so that you have a better landing angle. If you're coming in with a 7 iron that spins at 6500 with a landing angle of 40 degrees or a 8 iron (stronger lofts) that comes in with 6200 spin and 44 degree landing angle you should be able to stop it more quickly, not less. Hitting the irons longer does create the need for more wedges at the bottom of the bag, but it probably means less hybrids or woods at the top of the bag....it's a give and take to find the right gapping for your game and the courses that you play.
I game t100s my clubs are stuck in limbo with ship sticks while I’m on vacation. Played a rental set of stealth and stealth hd the last 2 rounds. Have had no clue how far they go or how they land. I’ve hated them both. The woods worked out ok for me even with softer flex shafts.
This is why Mizuno created the Hot Metal High Launch line. It has the technology and forgiveness of the game improvement Hot Metal line but with more traditional lofts.
Great video with good info! I'd love a turn on trackman to just get real numbers.. if that was my numbers I would go out on course only swinging 85 90% at 80 85mph because man your dispersion was way smaller overall, your 90mph was good long and short but wide left to right all very good information to have in the bank. I'm just jealous of the track man really, plus I'm from small NZ and no one close has one close or to get lessons from!
Was using callaway apex lofts that made my 7 iron go 180. Now I’m hitting mizunos that go 155-165 😂. I prefer having more distance control and being able to use 10 yard increments vs 15
Why not compare clubs with similar lofts - ie 33-35 degree which would cover 7 iron in one set and 8 iron in others? This would allow a comparison between distance, dispersion and landing angles where loft is not a major variable in the test
I agree with you. Maybe I'm missing something. I would think that you would compare clubs that you hit the same distance. If you hit a game improvement 7 iron "too far," your comparison should be whatever players club you hit that distance....which may be a 5 iron. What am I missing?
I think this is more of a test of lofts over a club’s forgiveness, and how that relates to a players iron control at different swing speeds. I had a fitter try and put me into players distance irons with a 30* 7 iron, like the P790, and the launch and land angles were not ideal. I need more loft at 80 mph 7 iron swing. This is exactly what this video shows.
The problem lies in most Manufacturers only provide "Shaft Replaceable" 7 Iron heads. The rest of the Irons in any particular model would extrapolate out from the "7 Iron Performance Numbers".
When someone swings the 7 iron 70 mph they usually go to a game improvement iron but as you showed today the Stealth, at that speed, has no stopping power. How do you fit that person because usually they need a game improvement iron?
I have t300s and about 88mph club speed. My 7 iron normally goes about 175, maybe 180 if I middle it. I get little to no rollout on the course. Are you saying I should look into another iron? I know I have a shallow AoA (about -1 to -2). Would I benefit from a thinner sole club? On the other hand you’re getting 1.5 smash which makes me think I need the forgiveness since I’m more around 1.3-1.4.
The Titleist T300 replaced the 718 AP1 Irons. The latest T Series Changes the T300 Label to T350. The T200 remains the Same. T200 replaced the 718 AP3, and is the current "Player Distance " Iron vs. Your "Player Improvement" T300. Short story - test a T200 also during your Fitting - if you plan to stay with Titleist. The T150 replaces the T100S version.
Great test, with my 80 mph club head speed that is why I play i210s, just so much more controllable. If I want to hit the ball a bit further than my 7i I use a 5i or 6i!
Could you compare the stronger lofted irons with the 6 iron and 5 iron of the P7MC? The stronger lofted ones probably also have longer shafts than the P7MC.
Generally the other technical info is maintained...like shaft length, lie etc. They play around with clubhead weighting and use tungsten which is heavier than the metal the clubs are made of to put weight in areas to increase forgiveness on off centre hits, and also to lower the centre of gravity to promote a higher ball flight. Higher ball flight with more speed (from the stronger lofts) and slightly less spin is what generate the additional yardage.
That would be a good video as well. The challenge is all the manufacturers send us their 7iron fitting components. I will track down some 6-8 irons to complete a same loft video - Thomas
Although this video is really interesting, it is a bit counterproductive. On a golf course, you are not just "hitting 7 iron". You are supposed to reach the distance you need. If you need to play 175y, you can take your P7MC 7 iron, or if you would be using P790, your 8 iron, or if you would be using stealth - even 9 iron. I am not a pro, in fact, it is my second season, and I play Mizunos 921 hot metals (aggressive, 7i is 28.5 degrees). I do hit a bit far, sometimes getting crazy 200y from 7i, but I know how to hit a high cut if I need to stop the ball. F.e. can hit my PW at 110y with high cut and stop the ball on the landing spot. My point is that aggressive loft with my high club head speed allows me to use SHORTER irons on longer distances, making the shot just easier. I have an old set of traditional lofted irons and to reach 160 meters I have to use 5 iron, or 8 iron from this 921HM. Guess which one is more consistent...
Very interesting numbers. For someone with a 90 mph swing speed, how do you optimize a fitting for accuracy, control and consistency? I switched from a blade to a cavity back; but my pure shots go ten yards or more farther than my off-center hits (in which case I toe my shots). Thanks.
@@KenHollowayshow since you can generate 90 mph with a 7 Iron you should be looking at the Heads used by Tour Players who use any Brand you might be interested in. 90 mph 7 is definitely Upper Half for Swing Speed.
Swing speed is one thing...consistency of strike is another. If you don't find the centre of the face consistently, then you'd be wise to go to a club that offers some forgiveness like the P770 or Titleist T150....There is some variance between good strikes and mishits for all clubs. I'm playing a CB iron now and I'm finding mishits I'm losing 15+ yards and missing greens. I've been fit for the T200 to play next season and can't wait. If you go for the more forgiving club and play to the yardages of a centre strike and deal with the 10 yard misses on the. short side (front of the green, or a chip from the front edge) that's likely your sweet spot.
So what do you do? My swing speed is 75 mph. And I need the length/forgiveness of a game improvement iron such as the Stealth. A 28 degree 7 iron does not give you enough height or landing angle, only distance. Are you supposed to get a player's distance 7 iron to improve these stats - but lose some foregiveness? Would high launch senior shafts improve things, rather than say the stiff shafts you may be using?
I swing between 75 and 80mph with a 7 iron. I recently bought a set of irons that are designed to launch higher with more spin and have seen much better landing angles without losing carry distance. My total distance is more with strong lofted irons but the lack of stopping power causes serious problems when hitting greens. The new irons are Mizuno JPX 923 Hot Metal HL and my old strong lofted irons are Cobra LTDx. In addition to the Mizunos, there are others that are designed to fly higher, such as the Taylormade Stealth HD and the Ping G430 HL.
Interesting and well done. But wouldn’t you really need to compare stats on clubs that carry the same distance in each design category? For example, with a 180 yd approach shot, pick the clubs that travel and compare height, angle of descent, and spin.
Yes this is some good content as well. Stay tuned for a comparison of each iron model in each category. There are a couple new releases here soon so once they come out we will compare all the models - Thomas
While I may hit my Tour Edge C721 7 iron between 158-167 carry on average, I would love to see the manufacturers list not only the loft of each iron, but the optimal carry for each. Of course, they won't. That would be letting the cat out of the bag and possibly slump sales. But with an educated player, they may actually spend more. But ain't ever gonna happen.
Optimal carry would vary depending on swing speed and launch conditions. When buying clubs, you need to be aware of the sets you are trying and what the associated lofts are... also what the companies have done with weighting to promote a certain type of ball flight, what the sole design looks like for turf interaction...there's a great deal that goes into what kind of shot a given club will produce. Once you have that all dialed in and select the clubs that are right for you then the need for all of that information goes away. When you pull a 7 iron (or any other club) from the bag - you should know how far it is going to go and what your shot is going to look like.
Because the loft is changing, instead of comparing by the number on the club, could you do a video comparing spin, land angle, etc for carry distance. Its more useful on course for me
This type of comparison is more about helping golfers get themselves into the right type of club for their game. In terms of on course yardage...you need to do a gapping session with your own clubs and your own swing and find out how far you hit all of your clubs....there's much more to how far the ball will go than what the clubhead speed is. Your launch conditions will vary significantly from Thomas'.
So hit the P7MC with your speed and it will go 205ish - how do those numbers compare to the stealth 7i you were hitting? Or pick the iron from each set that goes 180 and do that comparison - is it still a problem? Who cares what number is stamped on the bottom
this is one of your best, and definitely one of 'the' best and clearest explanation/illustration of connecting player to proper club. well done!
Really great video here, Thomas. High quality breakdown that’s simple and easy to understand. I love how you broke down the different speeds with different types of clubs. Most channels just switch from club to club but don’t change the swing speed to relate different level golfers 💯⛳️👍🏼
Appreciate the comment! Loft or speed is your friend to generate the ideal landing angle - Thomas
@@swinglabperformancegolf I've had to face just this problem, 10 years ago I fitted at a 6 iron speed nearing 80, but since then, I've had back problems and dialed my speed back a lot, and these players irons don't go anywhere, they come out low, feel like I'm hitting a rock. I've picked up a lot of shots from a lot of distances with fairway woods and the like, where I can put a five wood off the grass pretty high, shape it from 150 or 160, bounce in front have a chance at a green. my scoring is still about the same. At the same time, I'm having to hit a 7 or 8 from 130, but have lost trust in my mid irons, I'm kind of screwed from 145 to 120. I'm pretty happy 110 and under with my 9 through wedges. I'm thinking a strong 6 through 8 or even 9, with extra sole, extra distance, extra height, will give me more shots at the green.
Driver is for distance, every other club is for precision. It doesn’t really matter how far you can hit your 7 iron as long as it goes a predictable distance.
Not really.. Knowing you carry it 206, as demonstrated, is pretty useless if you can't stop it.. I agree it needs to be predictable, but you also need other number to be good for it to be effective / optimal.
and if you can stop it then why would it be bad to have distance? It wouldn't be.
My 7 goes about 160 on average nowadays. If I’m swinging well, it can go around 185. At this point in my life (age 61) I’m willing to live with the inconsistency, as I’m beginning to find more consistency with the longer distance. Thing is that those swings are the ones that feel easiest, almost effortless. Irons are Mizuno MP54
Agreed, you need to be able to stop it.@@davetunks792
I’m 68 years old and my 7 iron is about 140 yards. My swing is around 78 miles per hour.
finally a useful video correlating swing speed with the type of iron you should use!
I’ve always enjoyed how you explained things, Thomas. This is more helpful in explaining which clubs might be best suited for which players compared to marketing campaigns which group too many players together by handicap. I think swing speed is very insightful. I also think it’s good to see how taking a bit off affects distance and dispersion when you’re more concerned about contact and club face rather than distance.
This was a fantastic video, Thomas. One of the best I've ever seen on club Fitting/specs on YT and I watch them all. Very Indepth info across the board with the full set of data to show each club,s showing the optimal range as well really puts it into perspective where you could/should be. The only other thing I'd like to see is almost the exact same test with someone that doesn't play at scartch or plus level. Someone that isnt' going to hit the highest possible smash factor for irons. But still more of these with you would be great.
Perhaps the same with driver. Different lofts at say 85, 100 and 115 mph swings.
Glad I found you Thomas. This is an interesting topic in choosing irons based upon swing speed. I am currently swinging the new Taylormade Stealth irons. I left Ping. I had g425 irons. Over the years (now 74) I have lost distance. My swing is now in the low 70’s. I am happy with the distance, dispersion, and landing angle with Stealth. I hit my 7i carrying 145-150 which makes me mentally satisfied. I am a 9 handicap. You are absolutely right on matching speed with the proper irons. Thank you for the video. Looking for more videos from you in the future.
I just checked my 7 iron swing speed at 60 on my prgr no wonder it only goes 130, it’s 30.5 loft
This is such an informative video. If you want to understood loft, launch and speed, watch this precise and concise video. Excellent job!
I think the stronger lofted irons are targeted at the player that swings slower and delivers more loft at impact than you are delivering.
Tell that to Bryson Dechambeau.
Great test Thomas. I've seen something similar before where the tester varied his angle of attack but kept the swing speed the same. In almost all cases the player, with an angle of attack 3-5 degrees down on a 7 iron, gets better results with traditional lofted clubs. Only where the angle of attack was more neutral (flippy) do the modern stronger lofted irons make more sense.
Interesting. I average -4.3 and 78-80 mph 7 iron speed. I recently tested the T150s (32 degree 7i) and loved the spin, launch, and peak height I saw. Distance was only about 142-145 carry but it was controllable. I’m looking forward to breaking these things in.
Really useful. I just ran out into the backyard to test my own 7iron speed and distance!
I play the stealth irons, s300 shafts as my swing speed is around 85 and play Callaway Supersoft ball. I've always hit more up with irons and I consistently carry 165 with my 7 iron and my landing angle is around 42 degrees. When I got fit, I wanted more distance with my irons vs my old set as I was only carrying about 140 with my previous 7 iron. It's all about how YOU hit the ball. I'm extremely happy with my stealth set :)
This was super interesting. Never knew about the iron number times 1000 rule, and I loved the *optimal* vs what was actually swung.
BRILLIANT video. It's great to hear someone say that stopping ability is important and NOT just distance. I
Totally right? What good is hitting it further if you can't hold the green?
Wondered why I haven’t seen Thomas on the 2nd swing videos. Now I know why. Glad to have found you again Thomas!
Glad you found this channel! - Thomas
Great to see you again Thomas. I was wondering where you went. I have the P7MC, and my numbers are bang on your 80mph set.
Great looking swing, by the way. I must say it is difficult to find a club "fitter" instead of a club "salesperson." Very interesting information. Thanks!
Wow. 28 degrees on a 7 iron? When I started repairing/building clubs, that was a 5 iron. The length is a little less than the 5's of that era, 37.25 vs 37.5. And a 5 iron with 21 degrees? When I started playing in the early 70's, that was a 2 iron! That 4 iron is almost as low a loft as Jack Nicklaus' 1 iron, or Tiger Woods' 2 iron. This is the old design conveyor belt in action. Drop the low numbers off one end, and add wedges at the other. Change the number on the bottom of the club, basically. Except here, they didn't add an extra wedge, they spread the loft gaps out to 6 degrees instead of 4, or 5 in more modern designs. That's going to make distance gaps wider, and will lead to less precise shooting around the greens. That's the exact opposite of what you want with a wedge in your hand.
As for the other end of the set, well the 4 and 5 iron are simply too long and too low in loft for an average mid to high handicapper to hit well. They don't get enough back spin to offset sidespin, and with the longer clubs their usual over the top swing pattern will cause less square face contact, so sidespin will be more of a problem. They also probably won't have the swing speed to get these clubs up in the air to carry for good distance, or stop on the green. These are sold as game improvement clubs, but they are really just the opposite. All they do is flatter golfers with artificial promises of extra distance, IMO.
I swing my 7 roughly 100mph. I wish I knew all this prior to buying clubs a couple years ago as I was told to get game improvement irons based on my handicap with nothing mentioned about my speed. I’ve been thru 3 sets of clubs in the last year and have now settled on the p7mc’s. Still averaging 190 carry with 135 ball speed. But more spin and higher decent angle has made it much better for me.
Very informative video, as usual.
Do you feel it is ridiculous to call these irons by the number shown on the clubhead? Isn't it better to compare a 34-degree iron with another brand's 34-degree iron?
These are the specs of the 5-iron, 6-iron, and 7-iron of the three brands.
26, 30, 34
23.5, 26.5, 30
21, 24, 28 (this last set had a slightly longer length of shaft as well)
The last brand's 7 iron was nearly the same loft as the first brand's 5-iron! The first brand's seven iron has more loft that the last brand's 8 iron!
You stated that your 7-iron has the same loft as the first brand and you normally hit a 7-iron about 180. How far do you hit your 5-iron? It's probably about as far as the last brand's seven iron (200+ yards).
I think there needs to be some consistency in what we call a 7-iron across all brands or, when we do comparisons, we should really be comparing same lofts regardless of the useless number under the sole of the clubhead.
It’s for these reasons I think all clubs should have their loft stamped. Like you have on driver, woods, wedges and even usually hybrids. Most irons don’t do this and it causes confusion too often. I always wondered why my playing partners smashed irons longer than me but not the woods and hybrids - turns out their irons are all 4-5 degrees more aggressive. Their 8 iron is equivalent to my 5-6 iron. What happens though is they have massive gapping between 9/PW and their wedges which normally start at a 52. They then get super pissed that the 52 never flies (they see it as close to their PW but in realty with their irons the degree gapping is like 11-12 - far too big). For me the gap between PW and my 52 is only 6.
Standard lofts are much much better for most half decent players. But having lofts stamped on all irons would help those new to golf massively. Also would stop the silly ego nonsense of how far you hit a 7iron!
Totally agree. I started as a kid in the late 70's playing old school forged blades - thin top line, no offset, standard lofts. To this day I still play clubs that fit that description. My current clubs are TaylorMade circa 2010 - even bought the 2 iron when I ordered the set. Only had 4 sets my entire life, never fell for the marketing hype that has guys buying new sets constantly chasing distance or accuracy.
I disagree as shaft also contributes to distance and height. I use Srixon Z785s with 130g shafts and couldn't care less if someone else uses Stealths with 95g shafts.
Even if the loft was stamped ppl can still get it adjusted so it means nothing or could extend shaft length.
Play your own game as there is also the extra consideration of dynamic loft...
Iron Lofts are Published by every Manufacturer for each Model made. It's an easy enough search, even for older models as comparisons.
The Numbers are Stamped for Identification purposes, 7 goes Farther than 8, 6 goes Farther than 7.
Lol! Can't even get my driver 190! Old man swing speed!
Just started golf, so working on my ball contact first which has gotten much better.Distance not a concern at the moment. Great video!
Great idea - excellend execution. Really clear to me.
I was literally wondering this as I was on the range today if my numbers was OK for around 82 mph. Really interesting to see this across speeds ans iron lofts. 👍
Keep making videos where mortal/average swing speeds are used 😅
Shaft type and length….how tired am I, wind, temperature, humidity
Great video. I was consdering buying new irons but after watching this video and decided to stick to my iron..
What you should be hitting? 1. I am over 53 2. Very bad ankle. 3. 2 full spine compressions. 4. 4 years of competitive mountain bike racing.. So my body is a dam mess.. i probably wont change from my Ben Hogan Apex Plus, looks are a 10,softness is buttery,.. so my 7 is a 165 club.. unless i pure it.. than its a 185... bad shot,ugh 140ish..golf sure is odd game
Very interesting. This explains why I hit a higher lofted iron farther than the lower lofted ones. I went from. a 30 degree to a 32 degree 7 iron and hit it farther. Thanks for the testing.
I used to play Ping i15's (33deg) and switched to Mizuno Pro 225's (30deg)... i15's were a 155-160 carry with a low/mid ball flight and 225's are a 160-165 carry with a high(er) ball flight. At 56, I dropped from a solid 8HC (prior 5 years) to a solid 5HC over the last 9 months I've owned the Mizuno's. I did take two 1-hr iron lessons prior to getting the Mizuno's but I honestly think the drop in HC was due more in part to (10yr) newer irons.
I found similar differences. I am currently playing Mizuno JPX921 Tour irons (34 deg 7 iron) and have been fit for Titleist T200's (30.5 deg 7 iron). I found that in fitting I was carrying the T200's about 12 yards further and like you I was getting a higher trajectory, better peak height and landing angle numbers. I'm playing to a 12 HC as of the end of last season. I have had rounds, and long strings of holes over the last couple years that tell me I could be much lower.....I'm really looking forward to next season and the difference the T200's will make in my game. I am doing some lessons in the off season for the first time in a really long time - so I won't know for certain if it is all on the clubs, but I'm expecting to be in the 7-8 HC range by the middle of next season.
@@chrisgilligan4968 I'm sure the combination of the New T200's and a couple lessons will do wonders for you... my routine to drop my HC was range time once a week and I played once a week. Started with chipping for about 1/2hr, I hit 10 balls from each spot for about 30-40 minutes. Then l hit a large bucket focusing on irons (P, 7 an then 5 or 4 iron) and really focused on achieving the proper ball flights. Then I putted for about 40 minutes so total routine was about 2.5hrs, 3 hrs max. I've since moved and my new course only allows hitting off of mats so for the last 5 months, I've rarely practiced. I now play twice a week consistently but my HC rose from a 4.8 to a 7 (currently a 6.5). I recently shot a 74 with 7 birdies, 3 dbl bogeys and 3 bogeys. I also just shot a 43, 36... I really, really miss my weekly range time, its so important to consistently lowering your scores. Good luck and enjoy those new clubs!
Summer distance with my KBS (stock 120s) P7MB (last model) = 175
When the round gets going and I get tired usually drops to around 163ish. I wish I could keep my stamina up. What really kills is slow play and waiting for the group in front of us. Especially if we’re at the tee.
This is the most amazing video I have in my golf channel. Thank you so much for this.
Love this video. Helping me a lot who just started checking his data more regularly. I’m in between most stats at 82mph swing of the p790 and p7mc with my rogue st pros.
Would be really cool to see a 9i and 5i to compare an entire bag!
Thanks a lot
Very useful. Although I am 82, I still play forged blades with traditional lofts. They are Chicago Classics by Bob Evans design, forged in Taiwan probably around 1995 and virtually identical to Mizuno MP-33s that I previously owned. Evans was head of tour operations and product management for McGregor Golf. My 7 iron loft has been measured at 34 and once at 35. Not sure why the fitter's numbers differed. Anyway, with age I of course get less carry, height, spin, descent angle, etc. and worry about it. I have been working a lot at the PGA Superstore practice bays in order to get actual data for all my clubs and to improve my swing. But as things stand at the moment, with my own ball, in this case the new Mizuno RB Tour x, I can get ball speed 96-97, no club speed data available on their Foresight GCHawk overhead monitors, launch angle 22-24, back spin 4350-4450, height 70-75, descent angle 42-43.5, carry 132-135, total 143-147. These numbers seem to correspond quite well to yours at 70mph, keeping mind that with your slightly higher ball speed I would get a bit more spin and carry, but I am getting a bit more height and a bit higher descent angle. So I feel quite encouraged by your test results, for which I thank you. It also gives me renewed confidence in continuing to play my forged blades because I just like the feel and look of them. I could get maybe one club more distance by playing a stronger lofted club, but it would not help stop the ball on the green, which is very important, and there is no need to spend $1,300 or so on new clubs.
Yes, it depends on your strength and club speeds. I played with a friend who could if he wanted to hit the 7 iron 220-230 yards which was amazing. It was fun to play along side of him on the golf course.
This is a very informative video. Thank you so much for the free advice. I have no idea how fast I swing by there, but I have been measured at 95-98 with my driver on the TrackMan. What swing speed do you think that translates to 7 for a iron with 34 degrees of loft, assuming I swing consistently?
Was this test using the same shaft for all speeds? If it was, that would explain the results. Had you used the shaft to match the speed, the spin should have increased with each rise in speed, wouldn't it? Using the right shaft to match the head is paramount for any golfer, hence why a good club/shaft fitting is recommended.
i swing my 7 iron at 95 mph, but i am a beginner golfer, with some geotech kaisas irons (game improvement i guess) i get it to 170 yards^^ So i guess i should work on my mechanics first? What exactly should i look at the most? I take a 1 hr lesson every 1 or 2 months, my attack angle seems fine, but what else should i maybe focus on? Just looking for suggestions, obv hard to tell without seeing a swing.
Yes, this stacks up. I hit my 7i (Mizuno MP18) at around 171 carry. I am actually going in for an iron fitting next week and one of the clubs I will be looking at is the P790. I am thinking I can get a bit more distance and not sacrifice stopping power because I have a decent swing speed, but we will see. This video was very helpful, I know what to look for now on the monitor.
I have the p790 5-pw.
Carry 7 175 … 9 times out of 10.
Every so many balls it will jump to over 190yards i cant put my finger on why. But they’re awesome clubs.
I have P790s too and love them. It is well documented how if you catch them low on face the ball will carry maybe 10-15yards further.
@robertbarnes1226 hmm. That is a bit of a worry. That is the one thing about blades that I do love. Yes, I am giving up some distance with mishits, but they are so consistent. Still, as I get older, another club length is appealing. If mu fitting shows that I am buying them.
@@trxe420 i have them with the MMC Graphite and they feel so good, coming from mp-33/rifle blades so wanted less impact and comfort, got what i wanted but everything said above i agree with. I miss the consistency but wouldn't go back.
This a great video!!! Thanks a lot for doing this!!! What would be super interesting as well would be to compare e.g. a 7i with different shaft flex and weight with the same as well as different swing speeds 🙂
This is a good video but I think there are a couple of caveats involved here.
This vid highlights the best clubs for good ball strikers and their clubhead speeds. To be honest, good ball strikers probably have played for quite a few years and already know these things. I myself have changed to a player distance iron (the P790s to be exact) because I am 56 and my clubhead speeds have dropped enough to make using my older Hogans no longer viable. It sucks to get old. I actually tried the precursor to the Stealths (Sim2s) and found that I hit them pretty far but struggled to control the left right movement due to the offset. I'm a decent striker (not nearly as good as you) so I know the Sim2s were not the clubs I should be hitting.
My issue is that someone that is relatively new to the game or not necessarily a decent striker of the ball might come away looking at clubhead speed as the biggest reason to purchase a set of irons and I disagree with this. If you look at your efficiency in your strikes they are much better than the average golfer (which is expected) and significantly better than someone that is nothing more than a 'casual' golfer. If someone has a 90mph swing speed but can't hit the center of the club to save his life then putting that person in P7MBs probably would be disasterous. Probably at least the P790s if not the Stealths would be an easier club to learn to play. As the swing improves and strikes improve then consideration for harder to hit irons should happen.
This is a great point. The caveat is primarily for new players who are young and athletic and have swing speeds that are beyond their abilities. The lower swing speed players almost across the board would benefit from playing either a players distance iron, or game improvement iron both for the additional distance, but also for the additional forgiveness on off centre hits.
You're also right....getting old sucks. I am making the move to Titleist T200's this offseason to combat some of the distance woes, mostly on off centre hits, but also feel like hitting one club less into the greens will help get a tighter dispersion. I'll be 56 this summer and I'm hoping to move my handicap to the the lowest it's been in my life in the upcoming season!!
Hi, just a heads up and a bit of help for future videos. You need to adjust the lofts to the correct number on Trackman so the optimiser works correctly. You’ll find the edit loft/lie section when you click on adding a club or on the strike page (modify club). All the best
*you had all 7 irons registered as 35.5
Great video! Really helping me selecting new irons
I have the stealth and hit my 7i on average 180yds. Not sure about my swing speed, spin and such but I stick almost every green I hit with it. I play the MaxFli SoftFli balls. I guess it all truly depends on the persons swing and such regarding how much spin and landing angle they get. And I also don’t believe the roll out and such on these simulators along with most of their numbers. I’ve seen guys get fitted using one and goes out on the course and it’s way different in every way
Fantastic video! It answered so many questions I had in mind!
Thank you for the great info. It will help me in my new club purchase. One thing I would recommend, especially for us newbie’s , is that you somehow highlight or laser pointer the information on the graph. Hard to follow but valuable information just the same..Thanks again!
Thanks for your feedback! I agree we could highlight the most important info - Thomas
Great video. I wish I could get this information at a club fitting.
Just bought a set of the Stealth irons. Was getting near identical spin numbers to you in the high 4000 rpm range. Had them bend all the clubs 2* weak as I was carrying near 215 on the sim. Hope I can make sense of them.
without changing shafts to match swing speed (you didn't say anything so no idea what you did), not sure how this data means much but interesting to see
Great information, thank you, so many people think it's all about distance!
How would these numbers be impacted by playing a higher spinning golf ball?
Well the club/shaft/ball combo is all about hitting the correct spin window
But if you’re just talking about the ball journey withs in two months and you would lose a bit of distance
@@JaxReds i feel that for players like me that need the distance help, I would be curious to see the impact a higher spinning ball has when hit by rocket launcher irons.
@@louispounds7486 yeah its interesting, I can actually attest to this
I’m left-handed and my fitter could only get the paradigm irons for his fitting event in a lefty
To sum me up as a golfer I’m really fast I play. My seven iron at 210-20 yards.
He wanted me in the chrome soft ex already anyways, but we tested the paradimes with that kind of as a joke and I was reaching carry numbers of 247 yards with a fade. I wasn’t even hitting a draw.
.
Those things are so long. It genuinely made me consider putting a four iron in the bag as a driving iron.
@@JaxReds damn, first I’m jealous of that speed/power. Amazing!!
Sounds to me like you are a candidate for true cavity back irons.
My 7-iron distance is 165 yards which I think is pretty normal and play P770 irons. I initially got the 790’s and my 7 was going 180. I couldn’t get use to it. I’ve played with a 34 degree 7 iron for as long as I can remember and at 33 degrees, it was something I’ve gotten use to.
amazing info. thank you, Thomas! you're the man!
What’s troubling with this is the Stealth is targeted at higher handicappers who very likely have slowish swing speeds. This very reason is why Mizuno and Ping have “High Launch” versions of their GI Irons.
This is why they always use fast swingers for club reviews!
Maybe I'm a moron but does this show that TaylorMade P7MC works rather well at swing speeds around 70 mph, and that you are better off with those irons compared to the other ones? I'd be happy to hear some thoughts on comparing these same irons but with the same lofts; e.g. how would the stats differ between a P7MC 7 iron (34°) versus P790 8 iron (35°) and a Stealth 8-9 iron (32° and 37°), which have similar lofts. Alright, God bless and cheers!
Lofts that are the same or within one degree difference and swung at the same clubhead speed will produce much closer carry and total distances and spin rates.
@@zazhou Thanks m8! In the meanwhile I found this, ruclips.net/video/vdPxpkXkhNU/видео.html, which gave me a lot of answers.
What this video doesn't take into consideration is quality of strike. Thomas hits the centre of the face on virtually every shot. For a golfer that swings slower, it is often (but not always) the case that they aren't as good a player, and don't hit the middle as often. This is where the other 2 clubs will outshine the players club like the P7MC....when you don't hit the middle on that club - your carry distance could be easily 15-20 yards short of what you hit when you hit it solid. With the more forgiving clubs that difference shrinks considerably....which will make a significant impact on the scorecard!!
Thank you Thomas 👏. Finally, someone doing a straight forward test to clearly demonstrate that at ALL swing speeds, loft is your friend (albeit maybe not for flippers). And you dispelled the marketing hype, often used in fittings, that claims GI tech creates height and landing-angle that offsets the lower spin from the lower lofts. Clearly this is NOT true for slower swing speeds (for good strikers of the ball). Unless you are a links-only player, PD and GI clubs make the game harder, not easier.
Everyone's launch conditions are different. I am not a "flipper" and have been playing Mizuno JPX921 Tour irons (traditional lots like the P7MC) the past couple season. I was fit for the Titleist T200 irons a couple weeks ago and based on back to back testing with my own clubs, the T200's launch higher, have a higher peak height, and better landing angle. I've been playing golf for 38 years and while I don't hit the centre of the face every shot, I'm a decent player, with a decent swing....just not blessed to be very tall, and a little past my prime at 56. I swing at about 80 mph on 7 iron and am honestly looking forward to getting the new set and bringing my HC down this summer.
@@chrisgilligan4968 Here's to year of good golf, and lower handicaps, Chris 🥂
@@rufussthoo4083 Amen to that!! Cheers!🍻
Perfect video
I’m 67 senior golfer. 7 iron distance only 120 with club speed mid 69’s. Playing Callaway Mavrik irons with regular stock graphite shaft. Thoughts on possible changes? Love your videos. 😊
Great video! very informative. I have Cobra F9 irons and my 7 iron carries about 145 but rolls out to 160...cannot hold a green. I miss my old Irons that went higher and shorter but landed softer. Swing speed is 75-80
A simple adjustment could be bending your current irons 1-2 weaker which will increase spin and stopping power. You may lose a couple yards in carry but could be worth it - Thomas
Appreciate the explanation of the science. Good vid.
I play T100 irons. My 7i carry is normally 160-165. I could hit it 175-180 in a P790 but I couldnt get it to stop quickly so took less distance for more consistency.
First of all - it's a great test that you've put together here. Comparing 3 models and also across 3 different swing speeds....the only thing missing is the drop off in consistency of strike towards weaker players (you hit the centre of the face on pretty much every shot). Following up on the question of the thumbnail - would you say that there is a sweet spot in terms of how far you hit your 7 iron as it relates to scoring? Would a decent player who swings at 80 mph expect to see an improvement in scoring by moving from the players irons to the players distance irons?
I'm in the ~80 mph 7 iron camp (~12 handicap)...I'm currently playing the Mizuno JPX921 Tour irons....very similar the the P7MC irons (I carry the 7 iron ~155). I have been fit for the Titleist T200 irons mostly for consistency of distance on off centre hits (in fitting I was carrying the 7 iron ~167). I'm not playing enough to hit the centre of the face on every shot and find with my current irons I'm losing 15+ yards on misses - whereas with the T200's most misses the drop off is 5-10 yards due to the additional forgiveness. With more shots hitting the green, or being a short chip from the fringe instead of a more difficult pitch from further back I'm expecting to save a few shots a round. Also seems like I am getting a higher peak height and better landing angle with the T200's than my current set...so even though the spin numbers are down by a few hundred revs, I am anticipating similar stopping power on the greens. I'm wondering if I should expect to see scoring benefits from hitting the irons further? Is there any logic in expecting tighter dispersion hitting an 8 iron into greens where I would have to play a 7 with my current set? The corresponding lofts are basically the same, but the club is shorter which in theory should offer some measure of better control - no??
Thomas ty I've been following you for years now and I can always count on efficiency with your reviews so ty, not sure you'll answer this question because I believe your still a fitter too, does a shaft matter for a set of Irons with a mid to low teen HC, who's boarding on being senior?? I'm pretty educated with flex, wieght, and lenth, I upgraded my Mizuno pro 225 with the i95 reg, steelfiber, without trying stock first? it comes out to a pretty hefty price tag when all said and done and wasn't sure it was necessary! Thanks Thomas!
Lofts on irons are so ridiculous now. My PW is 47 degrees. Played with my best friend’s kid the other day and he’s hitting a PW over 150 yards. I looked it up and it was a 43 degree loft. Clubs on average are 1-2 clubs stronger lofted than they were 20 years ago.
My 7 iron is 35°, a comfortable 170 shot with an apex of about 100-110 feet, landing soft and dying where it drops. If I want more distance, I simply club up. Of course, there are times when I need to hit it differing distances for different shots but unless I'm punching it, I want it coming in from on high, even in the wind.
Your swing speed would be in the neighbourhood of Thomas' full swing speed....and as such you should be playing traditionally lofted clubs. For players with a slower swing speed - the courses aren't shorter. Almost all of the players distance, and game improvement irons have very low CG which helps promote a high ball flight. I swing at 80 mph and hit my Mizuno JPX921 Tour 7 iron about 155 yards with a land angle of about 40 degrees and spin at about 6500. I just got fit for the Titleist T200 irons where into the same greens I'll now be hitting 8 iron that will spin around 6300 but with a land angle about 44 degrees. My ball speed is considerably higher, and my peak height and land angle all improved with the players distance irons. I play to a 12 handicap as of the end of last season....between the new irons, and some lessons I am taking in the off season I am expecting to shave 4-5 strokes off my handicap this summer!!
This is a great test/comparison…supports some of my thoughts/theories…I’m a slower swinger these days due to age (54), having had both hips replaced, and other physical limitations due to arthritis…however, I’m a solid striker of the ball with a fair amount of forward shaft lean…so, when I try to play a player distance iron or GI club, i find they fly much too low…is that because the CG is lowered on them for people who tend to swing without shaft lean and hit it really low on the face? That’s part of my theory…I tried playing a set of JPX 923 HMPs and hit them too low…tried the P790s, same thing…So, now I’m playing T150s and they seem to be a good blend with a nice height in the 80s with a 7 iron and between 43-45 degrees landing angle and about 160 on the distance…my 7 iron swing speed is now in the low 80s…two years ago after surgery and before the last two years of rehab and stretching it was mid to high 70s…
Air temp, humidity & elevation of the course are major factors. US desert, 100 deg, 6% humidity at 4,000 ft is way different than sea level, high humidity.
Seems to me the traditional lofts are optimal for all 3 swing speeds.
If you can compress the ball like him
As a beginner golfer I thought my 135-140yd 7i with game improvement clubs was alright. Excellent reality check haha.
As a beginner golfer - getting the ball up and flying is step 1. You're not getting much out of comparing yourself to a very accomplished golfer who's driver swing is probably 110-115 mph.
This so good. I always wondered why good players would not play with game improvement irons. Why bother with the harder to hit blades or CB?
My numbers with my i210 7 iron match exactly yours for 70mph swingspeed traditional loft. I think you're saying they're broadly optimal numbers. I've been thinking of moving to something to give me more distance but from what you're saying I should stick with what I have??
Good information but there are a couple of exceptions to this experiment. The main one is that the huge increase in distance is not factored in. If your distance improved by 30 yards from the MC to the Stealth then you should be comparing the club from each set that hits the ball the same distance. For example; what club from each set is needed to hit the ball 175 yards. That would be at least 2-3 clubs less with the Stealth andwould no longer be a 7 iron. With less club your overall height, landing angle and spin would increase significantly.
Nice to find you Thomas. I was wondering where you went to. I have a GC3 and swing around 80-84mph. When I absolutely center strike it with my 34 degree blade I see smash at 1.30-1.34 and balls speeds 106-110 max with spin around 7k. With a 32 degree Miura CB-302 cavity, ball speed, carry and smash stays the about the same for all numbers except spin which drops to the 5500 range. I don't understand how you are seeing ball speeds so much higher unless GC3 and Trackman just have differences? Also, I play at 5500 feet elevation and it seems like the extra spin of the blades help the ball stay in the thinner air up here. Do you have any thoughts? Thanks
It used to go 150 yards but now, at 64, 10 years later and 75 lbs later it is only going 135 yards.
I must get back in shape and in turn I need to get my speed back up from 71 mph to 78 or so.
I' m checking perhaps to much you tube reviews, and yours are great!
Currently i'm playing me MP53 and looking for new clubs, my 7 iron clubspeed is approx 80 mph ,launch mid high and my Hcp is 11 needs to go back to single, age 58
Question is what to choose: T150 or T200 of 223 or 225 pro, or even a JPX923 forged
Aim is 153 Yards and at least 5000 spin.
Please advise me.
And regarding driver what suites me beter TSR2 or Stealth 2?
Both great drivers but what is more forgiving?
Many thanks, Hans
Well I went with epic forged that went far but never would stop on green. It was really nice to get 180 out of 6 iron but scores went through the roof. Went back to t100 6 iron 155 an back to scoring in 70’s.
This is a perfect example! Carry consistency is key. Keep up the great golf - Thomas
I got the stealth 2 weeks ago when I picked up golf (played college baseball) and I carry it 195 yards. Maybe I should I don’t more research before buy my iron set
The main concern is if you have speed you may get some well struck shots that can surprise you and fly the green. If you are consistently hitting the distance then a little more distance never hurts - Thomas
A really good review, the Stealth should be described as a short 4 iron not a strong 7 iron. So many of my friends now carry 4 or 5 wedges and now struggle to hold the ball on a green with a hazard in front using irons that are too strong. I will have to hang on to my current irons.
There is definitely "going to far" with irons like Thomas mentions in the clip. Most of the players distance clubs use CG to create a higher ball flight so that you have a better landing angle. If you're coming in with a 7 iron that spins at 6500 with a landing angle of 40 degrees or a 8 iron (stronger lofts) that comes in with 6200 spin and 44 degree landing angle you should be able to stop it more quickly, not less. Hitting the irons longer does create the need for more wedges at the bottom of the bag, but it probably means less hybrids or woods at the top of the bag....it's a give and take to find the right gapping for your game and the courses that you play.
I game t100s my clubs are stuck in limbo with ship sticks while I’m on vacation. Played a rental set of stealth and stealth hd the last 2 rounds. Have had no clue how far they go or how they land. I’ve hated them both. The woods worked out ok for me even with softer flex shafts.
This is why Mizuno created the Hot Metal High Launch line. It has the technology and forgiveness of the game improvement Hot Metal line but with more traditional lofts.
Great video with good info! I'd love a turn on trackman to just get real numbers.. if that was my numbers I would go out on course only swinging 85 90% at 80 85mph because man your dispersion was way smaller overall, your 90mph was good long and short but wide left to right all very good information to have in the bank. I'm just jealous of the track man really, plus I'm from small NZ and no one close has one close or to get lessons from!
Look into getting a Garmin launch monitor. It isn't quite as good as the GC Quad or Trackman....but it sells for about $700 Canadian.
Was using callaway apex lofts that made my 7 iron go 180. Now I’m hitting mizunos that go 155-165 😂. I prefer having more distance control and being able to use 10 yard increments vs 15
Why not compare clubs with similar lofts - ie 33-35 degree which would cover 7 iron in one set and 8 iron in others? This would allow a comparison between distance, dispersion and landing angles where loft is not a major variable in the test
I agree with you. Maybe I'm missing something. I would think that you would compare clubs that you hit the same distance. If you hit a game improvement 7 iron "too far," your comparison should be whatever players club you hit that distance....which may be a 5 iron. What am I missing?
I think this is more of a test of lofts over a club’s forgiveness, and how that relates to a players iron control at different swing speeds. I had a fitter try and put me into players distance irons with a 30* 7 iron, like the P790, and the launch and land angles were not ideal. I need more loft at 80 mph 7 iron swing. This is exactly what this video shows.
The problem lies in most Manufacturers only provide "Shaft Replaceable" 7 Iron heads. The rest of the Irons in any particular model would extrapolate out from the "7 Iron Performance Numbers".
When someone swings the 7 iron 70 mph they usually go to a game improvement iron but as you showed today the Stealth, at that speed, has no stopping power. How do you fit that person because usually they need a game improvement iron?
Is there anywhere I can get the optimal stats per club? Like in a link or anything you can share?
I have t300s and about 88mph club speed. My 7 iron normally goes about 175, maybe 180 if I middle it. I get little to no rollout on the course. Are you saying I should look into another iron? I know I have a shallow AoA (about -1 to -2). Would I benefit from a thinner sole club? On the other hand you’re getting 1.5 smash which makes me think I need the forgiveness since I’m more around 1.3-1.4.
The Titleist T300 replaced the 718 AP1 Irons.
The latest T Series Changes the T300 Label to T350.
The T200 remains the Same.
T200 replaced the 718 AP3, and is the current "Player Distance " Iron vs. Your "Player Improvement" T300.
Short story - test a T200 also during your Fitting - if you plan to stay with Titleist.
The T150 replaces the T100S version.
We have similar numbers. I have Mizuno Hot Metal Pros. 7 iron is 29 degrees. Driving range balls go about 175-180
@@HamuelTheGrey 29 degrees for a 7 iron? Holy cow… my 5 iron is 28
Great test, with my 80 mph club head speed that is why I play i210s, just so much more controllable. If I want to hit the ball a bit further than my 7i I use a 5i or 6i!
i210 was always one of my go to irons to throw in the mix when a player needs a little more height and spin - Thomas
Would be interesting if you made shaft change - bend point stiffness and torque etc...
I've been wondering where this guy was. I loved his videos from his other channel.
Still creating videos. Glad you found this channel! It will be a combination of fitting and instructional content - Thomas
Great video most informative.
How far does a 34 degree loft go. Old 7 iron vs
24 degree new 7 iron old 4iron.
Could you compare the stronger lofted irons with the 6 iron and 5 iron of the P7MC? The stronger lofted ones probably also have longer shafts than the P7MC.
Generally the other technical info is maintained...like shaft length, lie etc. They play around with clubhead weighting and use tungsten which is heavier than the metal the clubs are made of to put weight in areas to increase forgiveness on off centre hits, and also to lower the centre of gravity to promote a higher ball flight. Higher ball flight with more speed (from the stronger lofts) and slightly less spin is what generate the additional yardage.
would be interesting to see the numbers from the equivalent lofts rather than the random number they have written on the bottom of the club
That would be a good video as well. The challenge is all the manufacturers send us their 7iron fitting components. I will track down some 6-8 irons to complete a same loft video - Thomas
Thomas how do you get a smash factor above 1.45 my smash is below 1.4 for irons mostly 1.3 or so ....
not possible normally without having some strange clubs....
Although this video is really interesting, it is a bit counterproductive. On a golf course, you are not just "hitting 7 iron". You are supposed to reach the distance you need. If you need to play 175y, you can take your P7MC 7 iron, or if you would be using P790, your 8 iron, or if you would be using stealth - even 9 iron.
I am not a pro, in fact, it is my second season, and I play Mizunos 921 hot metals (aggressive, 7i is 28.5 degrees). I do hit a bit far, sometimes getting crazy 200y from 7i, but I know how to hit a high cut if I need to stop the ball. F.e. can hit my PW at 110y with high cut and stop the ball on the landing spot.
My point is that aggressive loft with my high club head speed allows me to use SHORTER irons on longer distances, making the shot just easier.
I have an old set of traditional lofted irons and to reach 160 meters I have to use 5 iron, or 8 iron from this 921HM. Guess which one is more consistent...
Very interesting numbers. For someone with a 90 mph swing speed, how do you optimize a fitting for accuracy, control and consistency? I switched from a blade to a cavity back; but my pure shots go ten yards or more farther than my off-center hits (in which case I toe my shots). Thanks.
90 mph with Which Club?
You will probably find a 20 mph drop from Driver to 7 Iron.
@@apaulmcdonough2170 I was referring to the 7 iron. Thanks.
@@KenHollowayshow since you can generate 90 mph with a 7 Iron you should be looking at the Heads used by Tour Players who use any Brand you might be interested in.
90 mph 7 is definitely Upper Half for Swing Speed.
Swing speed is one thing...consistency of strike is another. If you don't find the centre of the face consistently, then you'd be wise to go to a club that offers some forgiveness like the P770 or Titleist T150....There is some variance between good strikes and mishits for all clubs. I'm playing a CB iron now and I'm finding mishits I'm losing 15+ yards and missing greens. I've been fit for the T200 to play next season and can't wait. If you go for the more forgiving club and play to the yardages of a centre strike and deal with the 10 yard misses on the. short side (front of the green, or a chip from the front edge) that's likely your sweet spot.
I hit my 34 degree 7 iron about 142 yards. Right on target for a slower swing speed.
So what do you do? My swing speed is 75 mph. And I need the length/forgiveness of a game improvement iron such as the Stealth. A 28 degree 7 iron does not give you enough height or landing angle, only distance. Are you supposed to get a player's distance 7 iron to improve these stats - but lose some foregiveness? Would high launch senior shafts improve things, rather than say the stiff shafts you may be using?
I swing between 75 and 80mph with a 7 iron. I recently bought a set of irons that are designed to launch higher with more spin and have seen much better landing angles without losing carry distance. My total distance is more with strong lofted irons but the lack of stopping power causes serious problems when hitting greens. The new irons are Mizuno JPX 923 Hot Metal HL and my old strong lofted irons are Cobra LTDx. In addition to the Mizunos, there are others that are designed to fly higher, such as the Taylormade Stealth HD and the Ping G430 HL.
@@99CROUSE Yes, noted. Maybe that's whay I will have to do.
Interesting and well done. But wouldn’t you really need to compare stats on clubs that carry the same distance in each design category? For example, with a 180 yd approach shot, pick the clubs that travel and compare height, angle of descent, and spin.
Yes this is some good content as well. Stay tuned for a comparison of each iron model in each category. There are a couple new releases here soon so once they come out we will compare all the models - Thomas
Thanks for the vid. Really interesting. You were much more accurate swinging at 70mph!
While I may hit my Tour Edge C721 7 iron between 158-167 carry on average, I would love to see the manufacturers list not only the loft of each iron, but the optimal carry for each. Of course, they won't. That would be letting the cat out of the bag and possibly slump sales. But with an educated player, they may actually spend more. But ain't ever gonna happen.
Optimal carry would vary depending on swing speed and launch conditions. When buying clubs, you need to be aware of the sets you are trying and what the associated lofts are... also what the companies have done with weighting to promote a certain type of ball flight, what the sole design looks like for turf interaction...there's a great deal that goes into what kind of shot a given club will produce. Once you have that all dialed in and select the clubs that are right for you then the need for all of that information goes away. When you pull a 7 iron (or any other club) from the bag - you should know how far it is going to go and what your shot is going to look like.
Because the loft is changing, instead of comparing by the number on the club, could you do a video comparing spin, land angle, etc for carry distance. Its more useful on course for me
This type of comparison is more about helping golfers get themselves into the right type of club for their game. In terms of on course yardage...you need to do a gapping session with your own clubs and your own swing and find out how far you hit all of your clubs....there's much more to how far the ball will go than what the clubhead speed is. Your launch conditions will vary significantly from Thomas'.
So hit the P7MC with your speed and it will go 205ish - how do those numbers compare to the stealth 7i you were hitting? Or pick the iron from each set that goes 180 and do that comparison - is it still a problem? Who cares what number is stamped on the bottom