UPDATE 2 - Hooray! I decided to take the plunge again and try once more with this reducer, my new one arrived and showed no tilt fortunately, but was giving field curvature at 55mm back focus. - much trial and error later, and with 59.5mm back focus, the field is perfectly flat and I'm very happy now! :-) Clear skies
I have the exact set up withe 2600 having just received my 120 reducer. I will say that if I can produce an image as beautiful as what you did I will be extremely satisfied. Absolutely stunning!
Hey mate! - Congratulations on your purchase! I used to have an Esprit 80, a truly brilliant scope - Wish I still had it! I'm glad you are enjoying the videos mate, that's wonderful to hear 👍👍 I hope you get some clear skies so you can enjoy your scope!!
UPDATE- After a second session, this time without narrowband filtration and instead just shooting unfiltered broadband, I've decided I'm just not totally happy with it's performance on a sensor of my size (APS/C), so I've decided to return the reducer and go back to the standard flattener. I was really excited for this part, but it's just not living up to my expectations for such a premium product. I just wanted to leave this here to be totally honest with you all.
Hi Andy, the problem was the reducer was giving me badly shaped and defocused stars along each side and corner, going far enough into the frame that if I were to crop out all the bad stars then I'd be left with a frame size similar to just using the regular flattener. Really unfortunate, maybe mine was faulty? Hope that helps mate
@@JoesAstrophoto Thanks Joe, I appreciate your thoughts mate :) It's such a shame because I really was looking forwards to using it - I guess it's an excuse to buy another scope though at some point! :) Clear skies!
@@lukomatico could be your backfocus distance, i know they say 55mm between reducer and sensor, but mostly some tweaking is needed, and almost always it needs to be a bit more then 55mm. I'm not saying that was the case here, but it would have been something you could have tested.
If that test image is anything to go by you're gonna have lots of fun with this mate, looked awesome. Look forward to seeing your images with this. Enjoyed the video nicely put together.
Wow! Fantastic image, Luke! Good informational video. I love your scope, btw. I once had the SW Esprit 100ED in loan. The optics and build quality are great. Greetings from Belgium. Clear skies! 🙂🌌🌠🔭
Thank you Beatrice! - I hope it helps some people who are maybe wondering about the reducer! 👍 The Esprit 100 are beautiful scopes, I bet you had a great time with it! :) Thank you for watching!
Hey Luke! That was a great and insightful unboxing / installation video and a beautiful image of the veil nebula! Thank you very much! To fix my current backfocus issue and to prepare for a future installation of a reducer / field flattener, I had to buy an oil filter releasing wrench, because I was unable to unscrew the M48 spacers I screwed in while it was considerably colder outside. Well, who thinks about thermal expansion, when installing a spacer... Ha, ha, ha, never ever did I think that this tool will become part of my astro-tool-box... :-) But hey, what would this hobby be without improvising from time to time... Have a great weekend! Ives
Hey there Ives!! I really do know what you mean about spacers practically seizing up mate! - I've had the same thing happen a bunch of times too, I usually resort to clamping the seized part in a soft-jawed vice to help get some grip! - I really like the idea of an oil filter wrench, thinking outside the box haha! :D I hope you have a great weekend too mate! Clear skies, Luke
That thing is as big as my camera and it may weigh more... that thing is a beast!!! looks like it is going to provide you with some great faster, wider imaging sessions.... Nice!!! love the veil image.
I will definitely have to look into getting one of these for my scope as some targets are just a bit too big for the current 840mm focal length. Interesting to see how much shorter it makes the imaging train which is definitely a plus when imaging with tripod legs. Very useful video and very nice image at the end, specially for only 90mins exposure!!
Thanks so much Logan! 650mm is a nice FL to have in the kit for sure, at 84mm I had the same problem you mention, the occasional target that's just not going to fit! I'm glad you thought the length segment of the vid was valid 👍 it's definitely a nightmare scenario for me to have a collision with the camera and a tripod leg, eeek!! Glad this should help avoid that a bit! Thank you for watching mate!
WWOW Luke ... That western Veil Nebula at the end of the video blew my mind! Awesome. I've been thinking of getting the new reducer for my Orion EON 130. I am currently using the older 0.8x reducer for short focal lengths that I bought for the little (but great) ED80T, and it does work with the new EON. Also, that heavier weight of nearly a kilo would help with the balance as my scope is rather top-heavy.
Hey Pat! :) thanks for dropping by and checking out the video my friend! It sounds like the matched reducer for your EON 130 would be a nice investment at some point! It's a beautiful scope you have so I'm sure it would be worth the investment! - plus as you mention, if it's a large chunk of glass like the esprit reducer then it'll definitely help balance these front-heavy big apos :) Thank you for your support pat!
Excited for you Luke. That is a good focal length for wide field and the image scale should be better. I'd like to hear your thoughts on that with your next target. Well done!
Hey Andy! - I'll definitely try and give my thoughts on it during the next capture session mate, thanks! :) I agree, the image scale seems healthier this way for DSO 👌👍 Thank you for watching mate!
Another great video buddy and wow what a final image too. A great investment to your gear and I hope you have many clear skies with it too. Ps great to see the chair getting used too in your video too lol
Heya Stu! - Thanks matey, I'm glad you liked the shot! I hope to get plenty of imaging done with the new flattener, I love the summer but I'm really looking forwards to the nights being that touch longer soon haha! Every time I see that chair I think about you! - it's became a thing now haha :D Thank you for watching!!
Congratulations Luke - look fwd to more of your imagery with it. BTW - does it screw in or is it just inserted into the telescope before you tighten the locking lug? Thanks Cheers
Hi Luco, Great to be back. What Astro software do you use to operate your Telescope, Camera, Guiding, Filter Wheel and the rest of your accessories. Also what software do you use for photo processing. Hope to hear from you soon Thank
Hey Simeon! I use AstroPhotographyTool to control my imaging sessions, Cartes du Ciel as my planetarium software, PHD2 as my guiding program and ASCOM platform to connect them all together, plus various other smaller drivers for the cameras/motor focuser etc. for processing the images I use PixInsight! I hope that helps, Luke
geez, Luke. You've basically got all the gear on my wishlist :) Should be a few more months before I also get the same scope, flattener, and focuser. Next I hear you'll also be getting a PrimaLuce Eagle? (another one on my list)
Hey mate! - I hope you are doing well :) unfortunately my reeucer had to go back, I was getting pretty bad stars so I just felt really let down :( I'm back to the normal flattener now which works fantastically well! I hope your gear arrives sooner rather than later mate! Clear skies 👍👍
@@lukomaticoall good here down under, thanks Luke. Winter time for us, so long cold (yes it gets cold!) nights to shoot :) Sorry to hear the flattener wasn't to standard. I really hope it's an isolated case. Skywatcher reckons it's good for Full Frame cameras, so it'd be disappointing if it is stuffed for APS-C and APS-H sensors.
Wondering what you would buy/recommend now? A Full frame sensor with flattener (Zwo 6200 is about 4500€) or the APS-C Sensor ( Zwo 2600 2200€ ) with Reducer (350€). Currenlty I'm shooting with flatener & Sony Alpha 7s...
Hey Andy! That's a very good question, and quite a tough one to answer - I'll try and throw some thoughts out on the table though and I apologize in advance if this is stuff you already are well aware of! :-) On the Esprit 120 - The 6200 and flattener is going to still give a wider field of view than the 2600 and reducer, though there's not much in it. The reducer method will lead to slightly lower exposure times being needed as the change in pixel scale will give higher sensitivity due to a larger portion of sky being sampled by each pixel (the other side to this is slightly lower possible image resolution) An interesting extra option is the ASI2400MC Pro - that would give you the option to have that full frame sensor and just use the flattener, but also be quite fast photographically speaking due to the large pixels on that camera! There's a lot to be said for a full frame camera if you have the scope options to support such a thing, but an APS-C sensor gives you more scope options that will support that kind of corrected image circle :-) A lot to think about, but I'm still happy with my 2600mc! I hope some of that helps, All the best, Luke
Hi Luco, My iOptron CEM70G comes with DC power output (5521 & 5525) for use with accessories. How do you connect the accessories to this port since most of the accessories comes with a different power sockets
Hey Simeon! - you'd likely use a male-to-male 12v dc cable to power an accessory from the mount, but just make sure the mount's own power supply is rated for enough amps to cover the extra power draw 👍 Hope that helps!
Really great video. Out of curiosity what guide scope and camera are you using? I am getting ready to order one since they are currently back ordered into the end of the year. Are you still using the flattener/reducer?
Hey there Marvin! I'm now using an ASI120mm Mini camera and still the same 50mm finder/guide scope, it's working well but I'll probably experiment with either OAG or a longer F/L guide scope before long! I do still use the reducer, since purchasing it I haven't used the standard flattener though - one thing though is that the reducer works better at 59.5 to 60mm back focus rather than the 55mm advertised on the box! Thank you so much for watching mate, All the best, Luke
@@lukomatico You seem to be one of the few folks I can find using the Skywatcher reducer/flattener. Any chance you can go through your optical train again. It looks like in your video you attached the camera with a DLSR type connector. Any help on the backfocus setup will be appreciated.
@@marvinwhisman3333 Hey Marvin! - no problem at all mate, I'll try and list the optical train for you here - bearing in mind, I'm aiming for 59.5mm to 60mm back focus after a lot of testing, not 55mm as the box states. Reducer>15mm spacer>5mm m48 male adapter (both the 15mm spacer + 5mm adapter come in the box with the reducer) from the m48 male connection I then go as follows - Canon t-ring 11mm>zwo EOS filter drawer system 26.5mm>5mm m48 female to male>2600mc 17.5mm this takes me to 60mm total, where the stars are much better and the field is flattened across the entire sensor. 55mm gives field curvature. I hope that helps!
Hi Luke, thanks for the video, informative and easy to listen to. I have the same Ota and camera and just received the .77x. Does the 59.5/60 mm back focus include the filter glass ( eg.plus .6mm) or the physical distance to 2600 tilt plate. I’m really hoping I got a good one, and you have done all the hard work for me regarding BF. Thanks again Luke, I hope your enjoying the longer nights over there.
Hey there Martin! :-) the 59.5/60mm is with a filter in place in the optical train for me, really good question! The 60mm should be measured from the m48 male terminating adapter on the flattener, right to the sensor plane. If you imagine your camera with it setup for 55mm back focus, I.E- 17.5mm from sensor to faceplate, 16.5mm spacer + 21mm spacer, and added another 5mm spacer on top, you'd be perfect - hope that helps visualize the requirement for you :-) I really hope you get a good unit, I think you will anyway! I'm pretty sure I must have just had horrendous luck before as this one I have now is great and most people seem very happy with theirs too! Re: longer nights, I'm loving it - when it's clear anyway! haha :-D Thank you for getting in touch! all the best and I truly hope you enjoy that lovely scope! Luke
Hey Luke thanks for the super quick reply👍, yes I forgot to put in minus 17.5 from tilt plate. I do my back focus with digital calipers,when spacers/ shims are required . I use 20mm spacer/adapter, zwo oag 16.5mm, zwo filter draw 21mm plus some shims for filter glass with standard flattener. If you haven’t yet tried Oag the 16.5 mm one from zwo does not allow you to fully screw in the flattener or .77x RF, both have 6 mm threads that hit the oag light shaft. I had to cut down the thread by 2mm, to reach correct back focus with the above configuration. At least with the .77x I have got room ( thanks to your result of 60 mm)to add spacers instead of cutting the thread and nearly my fingers off🙈. Hopefully this gives people a heads up if they go down this path and thanks again Luke for your precious information Clear Sky’s. One more thing, when I plate solve in asiair it gives me a focal length of 863 mm for the 120 esprit ( no filter). Can you remember what you got?This might make a difference to the 60mm back focus . Cheers Mate.🙏
@@martinalcock680 Hey Martin! - That's great then mate, it sounds like you have everything well in hand :-) RE: the plate solved focal length, mine was 861 I believe, very close to yours at 863, definitely longer than the advertised 840mm, that was with the field flattener in place which is likely to have a very mild extension effect, I guess yours was measured the same or was it totally unflattened? for a further bit of info, i get 646mm plate solved F/L with the 0.77x 🙂 Thanks for getting in touch!! All the best, Luke
Thank you Dave! - I'd fancied one for months (really since getting the scope) but none were ever in stock, some arrived recently so I jumped on the chance! :) Thanks for watching mate!
Hey Luke, I have same scope thinking of getting this - just curious the original back focus in 75mm. What is SW saying the new backfocus is with this? Why 59? Thanks - was it worth the FOV? I'm finding my scope is just too long - I can't get M31 or M45 into a single frame - tempted to get a new scope or this $500 reducer! Ouch. thanks
Hey there Marty! - Good questions mate! - My (and a close friend's) findings on the reducer are that at the 55mm backfocus (with the 20mm spacer added, consuming some of the native 75mm) are that the stars are good but not perfect, but when pushed outwards to around 60-ish mm backfocus, you can see perfect correction over an APS/C field, so I do believe Skywatcher should update the product description somewhat! :-) I like the field of view at 644, and think the scope performs really well in this configuration! I very rarely use the standard flattener with it now for 840mm f7, instead just sticking with the reducer/flattener 90%+ of the time. Hope that helps! P.S - as to reducer or a new scope, that's a tough call! Good luck mate!
@@lukomatico thanks Luke! Hum..I'm gonna hope for a sale on this. I'd like to definitely try to get FOV. I've had this scope for about 10 years and absolutely love it. I guess the reducer is going to be more subjected to backfocus than the flattener, good to know. Thanks!
Nice video again Luke, great image at the end 👍 I received mine about two months ago, very impressive piece if glass, but it must be because it's made for a fullframe sensor offcourse I just saw that you returned it, wasn't it good enough for you ? What was the problem ?
Hey there Siegfried! - thank you very much, as always! It was a hugely impressive item to be sure, but I was finding it just wasn't corrected well enough for my tastes so I'd sooner use the scope a bit slower at f7 with the normal flattener and get perfect stars all the way through the field 👍 it's a huge shame because I was really looking forward to it 😕 Thank you for watching!
@@lukomatico Hmm that's interesting to hear Luke, I know someone who first had the Starizona Apexed L flattener reducer on his Esprit120, he was disappointed about the quality it produced plus it also wasn't big enough for his fullframe sensor, so he bought the Skywatcher and is very pleased with it. I ordered mine together with the Esprit120 back in January and received the reducer flattener about two months ago, still haven't used it because I am still waiting on that damn telescope, so I can't test the reducer/flattener until my 120 arrives and that could take a long time as I heard from the shop
Hi Siegfried, I'd hope that my experience was an isolated one really, and that others will be fine 👍 I just know that my scope gives truly perfect stars with the standard field flattener, and that all changed with the reducer unfortunately :( I hope they get your scope out to you soon, so you can start to enjoy it!
Hey Luke! I recently got one of these reducers and I simply cannot get it flat on an APS-C. From what you know do you think all of these require 59-60mm backfocus? Seems that might be the case for me as well, waiting on spacers
I do believe so mate, I really reckon it's performing best around that 59-60mm mark! :-) Hope that your spacers come soon and rectify everything for you my friend, good luck!
@@lukomatico Well looks like I got a lemon. Tried backspacing in 0.2 increments from 55mm-60mm adjusting tilt each time and I see basically the same field curvature no matter the backfocus. Looks like I'll be using the standard flattener until I get the courage to buy another one. :(
So do you use that extra speed created by the reducer to take longer subs to get more light or more subs with an equivalent amount of light without the reducer?
Hey mate! The extra photographic speed basically means that each unit of data capture time, however it's broken up, is worth more from a signal to noise ratio standpoint than without, the trade off being a loss in sampling ratio 👍 Does that help mate? Thanks for watching!
That's right mate, the aperture of the scope remains constant, the photons/sec/area of the DSO is also constant, but the variable is the focal length when you use the reducer, so that DSOs light is landing on fewer pixels overall on the sensor when compared to native focal length (sampling rate), meaning each pixel is recording higher values per unit of time (better SNR) as a result 👍 So as long as the sampling rate is sufficient, you get better images in less time generally speaking
Great video Luke. Some months on how would you say the performance has been of this reducer/flattener? Is this one for a 150 but used it on a 120 anyway?
Hey mate! - I had a couple of faulty flatteners, but tried one final time and third time was the charm. I am happy with the performance of the reducer, I get good stars across an aps/c sensor, very good frame illumination with minimal vignette which is all I need :-) This is the 120 reducer used on the 120. Thanks for watching!
@@lukomatico Thanks for the reply Luke. In your opinion, is this item that much better than the supplied one that come with the scope? Im from NZ so if i have any issues with any supplied units it would mean many inconveniences with postage, wait times etc. Not to mention the cost difference.
Hey there! - in my opinion it's a very good item, but I wouldn't say it's better than the flattener, just different 👍👍 I understand you having reservations about purchase due to the added difficulty in the event of having a problem though! In short, I do recommend it if you like what it offers! :-)
@@lukomatico Thanks for all the input and sharing mate. Cant wait to see your next vid. Loved the cheap vs premium vids....you should do that same concept on other items....should you be in the position to do so.
I was just about to ask you if the 0.77 reducer/flattner introduced tilt in your images then I read your comments! I'm suffering from the same issues, just spent 3 hours adjusting the tilt adapter on my ASI 2600MM but still suffering... Looks like I'm going to have to return mine too
Hey Simon! - I had two bad units back to back, then left it for a while - eventually reordering to try one final time, and the third corrector came and worked properly. - one very important note though, the back focus it says to use on the box, 55mm, is 100% wrong. 59.5 to 60mm is the right amount! :-) (a lot of testing back and forth confirmed this) I hope that helps! All the best, Luke
@@lukomatico Strange, I have BF @ 55mm with no issues apart from elongated stars in two corners whereas the other two corners have pinpoint stars which confirms my tilt issue. Glad you managed to get your issue sorted, keep up the good work!
Thank you! :-) - this is so odd! if you end up exchanging your unit out for a replacement due to the tilt then it'd be really interesting to hear if your new one also works properly at 55mm - mine and another user are giving a tested flat field at 59.5, but 55mm was way out for us both, showing a lot of field curvature. - interesting developments!!I wonder if there is a lot of variability in the units being shipped? Thank you for getting back in touch and good luck! 👍👍
@@lukomatico On a different note, I had a Sesto Senso 2 fitted to my Espirit 120 too but had a fair amount of slipping. Have you noticed that when you adjust the focuser all the way into the 0 position that it seldom pulls the focuser all the way in? I emailed SkyWatcher about this issue and they recon that its caused by the Sesto Senso working on the dual speed focuser bearing. They recommended the ZWO EAF as it works on the course side giving better control and eliminating slippage.
@@SimonT65 Hey Simon! - It really sounds like you've had some bad luck mate!! I personally had no problem with the sesto slipping, but it does sound like that's what is happening for you mate :-( I did at one point have a problem with the clamping ring causing some binding when done up too tight, but that's another problem I guess! On the note of the ZWO - I have found the ZWO to be a great unit and would happily buy again :-) I hope you get to the bottom of it!! (one final thing to check, I have an installation video for the sesto on my channel - but that's not too important, - there's a pinned comment though from someone that may be helpful, or at least worth a check? ruclips.net/video/90gfgF9VM4s/видео.html&ab_channel=lukomatico)
Thanks for your quick response. You have a great setup and l wish you good lock and magnificent pictures towards the summer. I will be in touch and will like to see more pictures from your setup.
Hi Luko!! Checking up your previous post l found out you have a Cannon DSLR. Camera attached to your Esprit. What is the model # and how do you compare it to the ZWO ASI2600 Lastly, what Laptop do you use for your Data and Processing?
Hey mate! The Canon you saw was a canon 700d, astronomy modified (to allow it to detect hydrogen alpha) I've not actually tried it through the esprit before, but I have used it plenty of times just attached to a camera lens on a small star tracking mount - it works well especially for its price point! In all honesty though it's not really a fair fight when conpared to the dedicated astro camera 👍 I just use an old laptop at the moment for data capture as it doesn't need to be very powerful to do those tasks, but I transfer the files away after capture and do all my main processing on a reasonably fast desktop PC, which saves a lot of time! I hope that helps! :)
Thanks but I think the reviews really lacks. Showing a processed image doesn't say much, in order to actually see results, it would've been so much better showing a clean single frames and clean stack to really see the optic results of this.
Hey there mate, - I see your point but this was not a review, just a first look/first light as stated in the title! If the reducer hadn't been faulty, I would have done a full review in time :-) Clear skies!
Hey mate! :-) The reducer was showing out of focus stars across one side mainly, it was more visible in broadband unfiltered imaging - when using the l-extreme narrowband filter it didn't show up as bad, perhaps due to the natively smaller stars inherent to NB imaging making it less noticeable i guess? - I did not replace the reducer in the end unfortunately Thank you for your question! I hope you have a great week :-)
Awesome overview Luke, and wow that's impressively massive! I've not seen an accessory like that impressively big since I bought a Maxvision 40mm eyepiece (Google it, it's the size of some ones head!) F/5.4 and a wider FOV will be so perfect for nebulae season mate, and what a start if your Veil is anything to go by! :) I think you're right about it living on the scope mainly from now one, sampling at 1.2"/pixel sounds like a perfect maximum for blighty :)
Hey Chris! - sorry about the late reply mate, for some reason the comment got held by RUclips! I just googled the eyepiece, yikes! That's a big 'un! Can't wait to get started with it really mate, looking forwards to plenty of fun times to come with my slightly speedier rig! :) You are right for sure mate, here in England with our sky 'quality', around 1.2"/pix seems to be a good compromise between speed and detail 👌 Thanks for checking it out mate!! 👍
UPDATE 2 - Hooray!
I decided to take the plunge again and try once more with this reducer, my new one arrived and showed no tilt fortunately, but was giving field curvature at 55mm back focus. - much trial and error later, and with 59.5mm back focus, the field is perfectly flat and I'm very happy now! :-)
Clear skies
I have the exact set up withe 2600 having just received my 120 reducer. I will say that if I can produce an image as beautiful as what you did I will be extremely satisfied. Absolutely stunning!
That's awesome Marc, and thank you!! - I really do wish you all the best with the reducer my friend, good luck!! :-)
Clear tonight dude……well suppose to be 😄 can’t wait to see more pictures, as always….simply lovely 👍🏼
Hey mate! :) thanks for checking out the video, I appreciate it!
I'm hoping to get some more astro done ASAP! :D 👍👍
Man, that’s a monster of a scope. I just purchased the esprit 80. Your 120 makes my 80 look like a guide scope.
Great videos Luke.
Hey mate! - Congratulations on your purchase! I used to have an Esprit 80, a truly brilliant scope - Wish I still had it!
I'm glad you are enjoying the videos mate, that's wonderful to hear 👍👍
I hope you get some clear skies so you can enjoy your scope!!
I have on order the 120 ED - thanks for the content really helps me. Best Simon
That's awesome to hear Simon!! - all the very best of luck with the scope, such a great bit of kit 👍👍
UPDATE- After a second session, this time without narrowband filtration and instead just shooting unfiltered broadband, I've decided I'm just not totally happy with it's performance on a sensor of my size (APS/C), so I've decided to return the reducer and go back to the standard flattener.
I was really excited for this part, but it's just not living up to my expectations for such a premium product.
I just wanted to leave this here to be totally honest with you all.
Hi Luke, What was the problem? I have the same scope and camera as you and was thinking about getting this reducer. Thanks Andy
Hi Andy, the problem was the reducer was giving me badly shaped and defocused stars along each side and corner, going far enough into the frame that if I were to crop out all the bad stars then I'd be left with a frame size similar to just using the regular flattener.
Really unfortunate, maybe mine was faulty?
Hope that helps mate
Sorry to hear Luke, but it's great to see someone reviewing a product and being totally honest about it too. I really liked that you did that!
@@JoesAstrophoto Thanks Joe, I appreciate your thoughts mate :)
It's such a shame because I really was looking forwards to using it - I guess it's an excuse to buy another scope though at some point! :)
Clear skies!
@@lukomatico could be your backfocus distance, i know they say 55mm between reducer and sensor, but mostly some tweaking is needed, and almost always it needs to be a bit more then 55mm. I'm not saying that was the case here, but it would have been something you could have tested.
Love the new pic, look forward to see more with the new bit of kit.
Thanks Paul! - can't wait to get going with it properly! :)
Thank you for watching mate!
Thanks, made it a very straight forward installation process.
Glad to hear that mate! - Hope you enjoy! :-)
If that test image is anything to go by you're gonna have lots of fun with this mate, looked awesome. Look forward to seeing your images with this.
Enjoyed the video nicely put together.
Thank you Ollie! - I'm thinking it'll be a fun few seasons to come! :)
Cheers for watching mate 👍👍
Welcome to the f5 club mate. Great video and cracking final image. Some great info in the overview of the reducer.
Thanks so much mate! :D it feels good to be part of the club! 👍👍
I hope it helps a few people!
Thanks for watching matey 👍
Wow! Fantastic image, Luke! Good informational video. I love your scope, btw. I once had the SW Esprit 100ED in loan. The optics and build quality are great. Greetings from Belgium. Clear skies! 🙂🌌🌠🔭
Thank you Beatrice! - I hope it helps some people who are maybe wondering about the reducer! 👍
The Esprit 100 are beautiful scopes, I bet you had a great time with it! :)
Thank you for watching!
Hey Luke! That was a great and insightful unboxing / installation video and a beautiful image of the veil nebula! Thank you very much! To fix my current backfocus issue and to prepare for a future installation of a reducer / field flattener, I had to buy an oil filter releasing wrench, because I was unable to unscrew the M48 spacers I screwed in while it was considerably colder outside. Well, who thinks about thermal expansion, when installing a spacer... Ha, ha, ha, never ever did I think that this tool will become part of my astro-tool-box... :-) But hey, what would this hobby be without improvising from time to time... Have a great weekend! Ives
Hey there Ives!!
I really do know what you mean about spacers practically seizing up mate! - I've had the same thing happen a bunch of times too, I usually resort to clamping the seized part in a soft-jawed vice to help get some grip! - I really like the idea of an oil filter wrench, thinking outside the box haha! :D
I hope you have a great weekend too mate!
Clear skies,
Luke
That thing is as big as my camera and it may weigh more... that thing is a beast!!! looks like it is going to provide you with some great faster, wider imaging sessions.... Nice!!! love the veil image.
Haha, thanks mate! I can't wait to really start using it for some big sessions when the nights get a bit longer! :) - thanks for checking it out mate!
Vert impressive for a first light image!! Looking forward to seeing your next video 😎👍
Awesome to hear Alan, Thanks mate!! - I appreciate the support so much :)
Wow, that reducer is like three times the mass of the flattener! That's a great end result on the veil nebula too.
Thanks mate! - Yeah, the reducer is massive haha! I could hardly believe it when I opened the box and felt it for the first time!
I will definitely have to look into getting one of these for my scope as some targets are just a bit too big for the current 840mm focal length. Interesting to see how much shorter it makes the imaging train which is definitely a plus when imaging with tripod legs. Very useful video and very nice image at the end, specially for only 90mins exposure!!
Thanks so much Logan! 650mm is a nice FL to have in the kit for sure, at 84mm I had the same problem you mention, the occasional target that's just not going to fit!
I'm glad you thought the length segment of the vid was valid 👍 it's definitely a nightmare scenario for me to have a collision with the camera and a tripod leg, eeek!! Glad this should help avoid that a bit!
Thank you for watching mate!
Congrats For Your New Gear! The FOV is Really Great. Very Beautiful image of Veil!
Clear Skies (Always)👍🏻🌌
Hey mate!! - yeah the new FOV at 650mm-ish looks great! :)
Thank you very much for watching, hoping for you some clear skies too dude! 🤞🙏
WWOW Luke ... That western Veil Nebula at the end of the video blew my mind! Awesome. I've been thinking of getting the new reducer for my Orion EON 130. I am currently using the older 0.8x reducer for short focal lengths that I bought for the little (but great) ED80T, and it does work with the new EON. Also, that heavier weight of nearly a kilo would help with the balance as my scope is rather top-heavy.
Hey Pat! :) thanks for dropping by and checking out the video my friend!
It sounds like the matched reducer for your EON 130 would be a nice investment at some point! It's a beautiful scope you have so I'm sure it would be worth the investment! - plus as you mention, if it's a large chunk of glass like the esprit reducer then it'll definitely help balance these front-heavy big apos :)
Thank you for your support pat!
Great video Luke! Really good to see this as i'm going to get the Esprit120 (eventually) and was thinking about this reducer as well. Thanks!!!
Brilliant mate! - I think anyone would love the Esprit range, they are wonderful scopes! :)
Thank you for watching!
Great image with cracking detail and colours. Really good video content and style again
You are so kind Paul! - Thank you very much indeed mate, I appreciate you taking the time to take a look! :)
Very helpful video and amazing shot at the end!
Hey John! - I'm glad it was helpful mate, that's all I could ask for! :)
Thank you for watching!
Excited for you Luke. That is a good focal length for wide field and the image scale should be better. I'd like to hear your thoughts on that with your next target. Well done!
Hey Andy! - I'll definitely try and give my thoughts on it during the next capture session mate, thanks! :)
I agree, the image scale seems healthier this way for DSO 👌👍
Thank you for watching mate!
Wow! Beautiful image, keep up the great work! Luke
Thank you Trevor! -Will do mate! :)
Great video again by the way, with some useful bits of info I didn’t know about before. Thanks.
Thank you mate! :) I really appreciate your time, it means a lot!
Thanks for showing how to connect the reducer to the scope. The documentation is lacking!
Thanks mate!! 👍👍
Another great video buddy and wow what a final image too. A great investment to your gear and I hope you have many clear skies with it too. Ps great to see the chair getting used too in your video too lol
Heya Stu! - Thanks matey, I'm glad you liked the shot!
I hope to get plenty of imaging done with the new flattener, I love the summer but I'm really looking forwards to the nights being that touch longer soon haha!
Every time I see that chair I think about you! - it's became a thing now haha :D
Thank you for watching!!
Super helpful video! Baby’s steps with this little beast :)
Thank you matey! :-D
Clear skies :-)
Hi Luko, can you do visual observing with the reducer Flattener install in the Esprit
Hey mate! I don't believe you can do that due to the short back focus left over after the flattener or reducer is fitted, but I may be wrong!
Great video Luke!🔥
Hey Flavio! :) thank you for watching mate! 👍👍
Great image Luke 👍
Thanks mate!! :)
Cool video and image Luke!
Thanks very much Joe! and congratulations again on your recent image! :D
Cheers for watching mate :)
excellent video mate i just bought this flattener
Nice one! Hope you enjoy it buddy :-) I found it worked best with around 60mm of back focus rather than the stated 55mm though 👍
Congratulations Luke - look fwd to more of your imagery with it. BTW - does it screw in or is it just inserted into the telescope before you tighten the locking lug? Thanks Cheers
Hey Tony! It screws on to the threads mate, very secure 👍👍 thank you for watching!
@@lukomatico Thanks Luke - much appreciated.
Hi Luco,
Great to be back. What Astro software do you use to operate your Telescope, Camera, Guiding, Filter Wheel and the rest of your accessories. Also what software do you use for photo processing.
Hope to hear from you soon
Thank
Hey Simeon!
I use AstroPhotographyTool to control my imaging sessions, Cartes du Ciel as my planetarium software, PHD2 as my guiding program and ASCOM platform to connect them all together, plus various other smaller drivers for the cameras/motor focuser etc.
for processing the images I use PixInsight!
I hope that helps,
Luke
Thanks
That’s great Luke, thanks for that useful information, I’ll check this out again next month when mine arrives! Great final image😀
Thank you Simon! - I hope it is useful mate 👌👍
Can't wait for your scope to arrive!
geez, Luke. You've basically got all the gear on my wishlist :) Should be a few more months before I also get the same scope, flattener, and focuser. Next I hear you'll also be getting a PrimaLuce Eagle? (another one on my list)
Hey mate! - I hope you are doing well :) unfortunately my reeucer had to go back, I was getting pretty bad stars so I just felt really let down :( I'm back to the normal flattener now which works fantastically well!
I hope your gear arrives sooner rather than later mate!
Clear skies 👍👍
@@lukomaticoall good here down under, thanks Luke. Winter time for us, so long cold (yes it gets cold!) nights to shoot :)
Sorry to hear the flattener wasn't to standard. I really hope it's an isolated case. Skywatcher reckons it's good for Full Frame cameras, so it'd be disappointing if it is stuffed for APS-C and APS-H sensors.
Wondering what you would buy/recommend now? A Full frame sensor with flattener (Zwo 6200 is about 4500€) or the APS-C Sensor ( Zwo 2600 2200€ ) with Reducer (350€). Currenlty I'm shooting with flatener & Sony Alpha 7s...
Hey Andy!
That's a very good question, and quite a tough one to answer - I'll try and throw some thoughts out on the table though and I apologize in advance if this is stuff you already are well aware of! :-)
On the Esprit 120 - The 6200 and flattener is going to still give a wider field of view than the 2600 and reducer, though there's not much in it.
The reducer method will lead to slightly lower exposure times being needed as the change in pixel scale will give higher sensitivity due to a larger portion of sky being sampled by each pixel (the other side to this is slightly lower possible image resolution)
An interesting extra option is the ASI2400MC Pro - that would give you the option to have that full frame sensor and just use the flattener, but also be quite fast photographically speaking due to the large pixels on that camera!
There's a lot to be said for a full frame camera if you have the scope options to support such a thing, but an APS-C sensor gives you more scope options that will support that kind of corrected image circle :-)
A lot to think about, but I'm still happy with my 2600mc!
I hope some of that helps,
All the best,
Luke
Hi Luco,
My iOptron CEM70G comes with DC power output (5521 & 5525) for use with accessories. How do you connect the accessories to this port since most of the accessories comes with a different power sockets
Hey Simeon! - you'd likely use a male-to-male 12v dc cable to power an accessory from the mount, but just make sure the mount's own power supply is rated for enough amps to cover the extra power draw 👍
Hope that helps!
@@lukomatico
Thank you
Really great video. Out of curiosity what guide scope and camera are you using? I am getting ready to order one since they are currently back ordered into the end of the year. Are you still using the flattener/reducer?
Hey there Marvin!
I'm now using an ASI120mm Mini camera and still the same 50mm finder/guide scope, it's working well but I'll probably experiment with either OAG or a longer F/L guide scope before long!
I do still use the reducer, since purchasing it I haven't used the standard flattener though - one thing though is that the reducer works better at 59.5 to 60mm back focus rather than the 55mm advertised on the box!
Thank you so much for watching mate,
All the best,
Luke
@@lukomatico You seem to be one of the few folks I can find using the Skywatcher reducer/flattener. Any chance you can go through your optical train again. It looks like in your video you attached the camera with a DLSR type connector. Any help on the backfocus setup will be appreciated.
@@marvinwhisman3333 Hey Marvin! - no problem at all mate, I'll try and list the optical train for you here -
bearing in mind, I'm aiming for 59.5mm to 60mm back focus after a lot of testing, not 55mm as the box states.
Reducer>15mm spacer>5mm m48 male adapter (both the 15mm spacer + 5mm adapter come in the box with the reducer)
from the m48 male connection I then go as follows -
Canon t-ring 11mm>zwo EOS filter drawer system 26.5mm>5mm m48 female to male>2600mc 17.5mm
this takes me to 60mm total, where the stars are much better and the field is flattened across the entire sensor.
55mm gives field curvature.
I hope that helps!
Hi Luke, thanks for the video, informative and easy to listen to. I have the same Ota and camera and just received the .77x. Does the 59.5/60 mm back focus include the filter glass ( eg.plus .6mm) or the physical distance to 2600 tilt plate. I’m really hoping I got a good one, and you have done all the hard work for me regarding BF. Thanks again Luke, I hope your enjoying the longer nights over there.
Hey there Martin! :-) the 59.5/60mm is with a filter in place in the optical train for me, really good question!
The 60mm should be measured from the m48 male terminating adapter on the flattener, right to the sensor plane.
If you imagine your camera with it setup for 55mm back focus, I.E- 17.5mm from sensor to faceplate, 16.5mm spacer + 21mm spacer, and added another 5mm spacer on top, you'd be perfect - hope that helps visualize the requirement for you :-)
I really hope you get a good unit, I think you will anyway! I'm pretty sure I must have just had horrendous luck before as this one I have now is great and most people seem very happy with theirs too!
Re: longer nights, I'm loving it - when it's clear anyway! haha :-D
Thank you for getting in touch! all the best and I truly hope you enjoy that lovely scope!
Luke
Hey Luke thanks for the super quick reply👍, yes I forgot to put in minus 17.5 from tilt plate. I do my back focus with digital calipers,when spacers/ shims are required . I use 20mm spacer/adapter, zwo oag 16.5mm, zwo filter draw 21mm plus some shims for filter glass with standard flattener.
If you haven’t yet tried Oag the 16.5 mm one from zwo does not allow you to fully screw in the flattener or .77x RF, both have 6 mm threads that hit the oag light shaft. I had to cut down the thread by 2mm, to reach correct back focus with the above configuration. At least with the .77x I have got room ( thanks to your result of 60 mm)to add spacers instead of cutting the thread and nearly my fingers off🙈.
Hopefully this gives people a heads up if they go down this path and thanks again Luke for your precious information Clear Sky’s.
One more thing, when I plate solve in asiair it gives me a focal length of 863 mm for the 120 esprit ( no filter). Can you remember what you got?This might make a difference to the 60mm back focus . Cheers Mate.🙏
@@martinalcock680 Hey Martin! - That's great then mate, it sounds like you have everything well in hand :-)
RE: the plate solved focal length, mine was 861 I believe, very close to yours at 863, definitely longer than the advertised 840mm, that was with the field flattener in place which is likely to have a very mild extension effect, I guess yours was measured the same or was it totally unflattened? for a further bit of info, i get 646mm plate solved F/L with the 0.77x 🙂
Thanks for getting in touch!!
All the best,
Luke
Hey Luke, 863 was with flattener, thanks for the info on .77x F/L. That will help.🙏
Did you have to wait a long time? At least you have got it now. Sure you will put it to good use, nice capture as well.
Thank you Dave! - I'd fancied one for months (really since getting the scope) but none were ever in stock, some arrived recently so I jumped on the chance! :)
Thanks for watching mate!
@@lukomatico I got the .7 for the Edge, and that has definitely made the scope more usable, more targets can fit in the FOV.
Hey Dave! - yeah mate, definitely an improvement for DSO imaging on a monster scope like that! :D
Hey Luke, I have same scope thinking of getting this - just curious the original back focus in 75mm. What is SW saying the new backfocus is with this? Why 59? Thanks - was it worth the FOV? I'm finding my scope is just too long - I can't get M31 or M45 into a single frame - tempted to get a new scope or this $500 reducer! Ouch. thanks
Hey there Marty! - Good questions mate! - My (and a close friend's) findings on the reducer are that at the 55mm backfocus (with the 20mm spacer added, consuming some of the native 75mm) are that the stars are good but not perfect, but when pushed outwards to around 60-ish mm backfocus, you can see perfect correction over an APS/C field, so I do believe Skywatcher should update the product description somewhat! :-)
I like the field of view at 644, and think the scope performs really well in this configuration! I very rarely use the standard flattener with it now for 840mm f7, instead just sticking with the reducer/flattener 90%+ of the time.
Hope that helps!
P.S - as to reducer or a new scope, that's a tough call! Good luck mate!
@@lukomatico thanks Luke! Hum..I'm gonna hope for a sale on this. I'd like to definitely try to get FOV. I've had this scope for about 10 years and absolutely love it. I guess the reducer is going to be more subjected to backfocus than the flattener, good to know. Thanks!
Nice video again Luke, great image at the end 👍
I received mine about two months ago, very impressive piece if glass, but it must be because it's made for a fullframe sensor offcourse
I just saw that you returned it, wasn't it good enough for you ? What was the problem ?
Hey there Siegfried! - thank you very much, as always!
It was a hugely impressive item to be sure, but I was finding it just wasn't corrected well enough for my tastes so I'd sooner use the scope a bit slower at f7 with the normal flattener and get perfect stars all the way through the field 👍 it's a huge shame because I was really looking forward to it 😕
Thank you for watching!
@@lukomatico Hmm that's interesting to hear Luke, I know someone who first had the Starizona Apexed L flattener reducer on his Esprit120, he was disappointed about the quality it produced plus it also wasn't big enough for his fullframe sensor, so he bought the Skywatcher and is very pleased with it.
I ordered mine together with the Esprit120 back in January and received the reducer flattener about two months ago, still haven't used it because I am still waiting on that damn telescope, so I can't test the reducer/flattener until my 120 arrives and that could take a long time as I heard from the shop
Hi Siegfried,
I'd hope that my experience was an isolated one really, and that others will be fine 👍 I just know that my scope gives truly perfect stars with the standard field flattener, and that all changed with the reducer unfortunately :(
I hope they get your scope out to you soon, so you can start to enjoy it!
Hey Luke! I recently got one of these reducers and I simply cannot get it flat on an APS-C. From what you know do you think all of these require 59-60mm backfocus? Seems that might be the case for me as well, waiting on spacers
I do believe so mate, I really reckon it's performing best around that 59-60mm mark! :-) Hope that your spacers come soon and rectify everything for you my friend, good luck!
@@lukomatico Well looks like I got a lemon. Tried backspacing in 0.2 increments from 55mm-60mm adjusting tilt each time and I see basically the same field curvature no matter the backfocus. Looks like I'll be using the standard flattener until I get the courage to buy another one. :(
So do you use that extra speed created by the reducer to take longer subs to get more light or more subs with an equivalent amount of light without the reducer?
Hey mate! The extra photographic speed basically means that each unit of data capture time, however it's broken up, is worth more from a signal to noise ratio standpoint than without, the trade off being a loss in sampling ratio 👍
Does that help mate?
Thanks for watching!
@@lukomatico so if I’ve understood right, it doesn’t matter, because overall you would have captured more light in the same overall time once stacked?
That's right mate, the aperture of the scope remains constant, the photons/sec/area of the DSO is also constant, but the variable is the focal length when you use the reducer, so that DSOs light is landing on fewer pixels overall on the sensor when compared to native focal length (sampling rate), meaning each pixel is recording higher values per unit of time (better SNR) as a result 👍
So as long as the sampling rate is sufficient, you get better images in less time generally speaking
Really nice Luke :)
Thanks matey! :D 👍
Great video Luke. Some months on how would you say the performance has been of this reducer/flattener? Is this one for a 150 but used it on a 120 anyway?
Hey mate! - I had a couple of faulty flatteners, but tried one final time and third time was the charm. I am happy with the performance of the reducer, I get good stars across an aps/c sensor, very good frame illumination with minimal vignette which is all I need :-)
This is the 120 reducer used on the 120.
Thanks for watching!
@@lukomatico Thanks for the reply Luke. In your opinion, is this item that much better than the supplied one that come with the scope? Im from NZ so if i have any issues with any supplied units it would mean many inconveniences with postage, wait times etc. Not to mention the cost difference.
Hey there! - in my opinion it's a very good item, but I wouldn't say it's better than the flattener, just different 👍👍
I understand you having reservations about purchase due to the added difficulty in the event of having a problem though!
In short, I do recommend it if you like what it offers! :-)
@@lukomatico Thanks for all the input and sharing mate. Cant wait to see your next vid. Loved the cheap vs premium vids....you should do that same concept on other items....should you be in the position to do so.
Thank you for watching and no problem at all 👍👍 I'll bear that in mind!
Clear skies :-)
I was just about to ask you if the 0.77 reducer/flattner introduced tilt in your images then I read your comments! I'm suffering from the same issues, just spent 3 hours adjusting the tilt adapter on my ASI 2600MM but still suffering... Looks like I'm going to have to return mine too
Hey Simon! - I had two bad units back to back, then left it for a while - eventually reordering to try one final time, and the third corrector came and worked properly. - one very important note though, the back focus it says to use on the box, 55mm, is 100% wrong. 59.5 to 60mm is the right amount! :-) (a lot of testing back and forth confirmed this)
I hope that helps!
All the best,
Luke
@@lukomatico Strange, I have BF @ 55mm with no issues apart from elongated stars in two corners whereas the other two corners have pinpoint stars which confirms my tilt issue. Glad you managed to get your issue sorted, keep up the good work!
Thank you! :-) - this is so odd! if you end up exchanging your unit out for a replacement due to the tilt then it'd be really interesting to hear if your new one also works properly at 55mm - mine and another user are giving a tested flat field at 59.5, but 55mm was way out for us both, showing a lot of field curvature. - interesting developments!!I wonder if there is a lot of variability in the units being shipped?
Thank you for getting back in touch and good luck! 👍👍
@@lukomatico On a different note, I had a Sesto Senso 2 fitted to my Espirit 120 too but had a fair amount of slipping. Have you noticed that when you adjust the focuser all the way into the 0 position that it seldom pulls the focuser all the way in? I emailed SkyWatcher about this issue and they recon that its caused by the Sesto Senso working on the dual speed focuser bearing. They recommended the ZWO EAF as it works on the course side giving better control and eliminating slippage.
@@SimonT65 Hey Simon! - It really sounds like you've had some bad luck mate!!
I personally had no problem with the sesto slipping, but it does sound like that's what is happening for you mate :-(
I did at one point have a problem with the clamping ring causing some binding when done up too tight, but that's another problem I guess!
On the note of the ZWO - I have found the ZWO to be a great unit and would happily buy again :-)
I hope you get to the bottom of it!!
(one final thing to check, I have an installation video for the sesto on my channel - but that's not too important, - there's a pinned comment though from someone that may be helpful, or at least worth a check? ruclips.net/video/90gfgF9VM4s/видео.html&ab_channel=lukomatico)
Hi Luke, did you have any issues getting round stars at the edge?
Hey mate! I did need to extend the back focus to 60mm, stars at 55mm weren't good enough for me
Hope that helps
@@lukomatico ah yes with the 2600 I’m only using the 2 extenders that came with the camera which is 16.5mm and 21mm. Thankyou! I’ll get some spacers
What camera is mounted on the Esprit? Do you have to take the Reducer off for visual observation?
Heya Simeon! - it's a zwo asi 2600mc pro camera, and yes you would need to remove the reducer for visual again :)
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for your quick response. You have a great setup and l wish you good lock and magnificent pictures towards the summer. I will be in touch and will like to see more pictures from your setup.
Awesome! Thank you Simeon, I look forwards to hearing from you mate! :) 👍👍
Hi Luko!!
Checking up your previous post l found out you have a Cannon DSLR.
Camera attached to your Esprit.
What is the model # and how do you compare it to the ZWO ASI2600
Lastly, what Laptop do you use for your Data and Processing?
Hey mate! The Canon you saw was a canon 700d, astronomy modified (to allow it to detect hydrogen alpha)
I've not actually tried it through the esprit before, but I have used it plenty of times just attached to a camera lens on a small star tracking mount - it works well especially for its price point! In all honesty though it's not really a fair fight when conpared to the dedicated astro camera 👍
I just use an old laptop at the moment for data capture as it doesn't need to be very powerful to do those tasks, but I transfer the files away after capture and do all my main processing on a reasonably fast desktop PC, which saves a lot of time!
I hope that helps! :)
Thanks but I think the reviews really lacks.
Showing a processed image doesn't say much, in order to actually see results, it would've been so much better showing a clean single frames and clean stack to really see the optic results of this.
Hey there mate, - I see your point but this was not a review, just a first look/first light as stated in the title! If the reducer hadn't been faulty, I would have done a full review in time :-)
Clear skies!
@@lukomatico You're right, not sure why I thought this is a review, sorry, my bad :)
What was faulty in the reducer? Do you replace it?
Hey mate! :-) The reducer was showing out of focus stars across one side mainly, it was more visible in broadband unfiltered imaging - when using the l-extreme narrowband filter it didn't show up as bad, perhaps due to the natively smaller stars inherent to NB imaging making it less noticeable i guess? - I did not replace the reducer in the end unfortunately
Thank you for your question!
I hope you have a great week :-)
Awesome overview Luke, and wow that's impressively massive! I've not seen an accessory like that impressively big since I bought a Maxvision 40mm eyepiece (Google it, it's the size of some ones head!) F/5.4 and a wider FOV will be so perfect for nebulae season mate, and what a start if your Veil is anything to go by! :) I think you're right about it living on the scope mainly from now one, sampling at 1.2"/pixel sounds like a perfect maximum for blighty :)
Hey Chris! - sorry about the late reply mate, for some reason the comment got held by RUclips!
I just googled the eyepiece, yikes! That's a big 'un!
Can't wait to get started with it really mate, looking forwards to plenty of fun times to come with my slightly speedier rig! :)
You are right for sure mate, here in England with our sky 'quality', around 1.2"/pix seems to be a good compromise between speed and detail 👌
Thanks for checking it out mate!! 👍