The part that annoys me the most if that Kierra Lewis MADE this situation about her and totally deflected from Felicia's point. She never said Kierra was the problem, she said the behavior she saw was the issue. And going on live to talk trash about her is cruel. The fact that Felicia had to make a second statement to clarify her easily understood point just makes me sadder. It's awful what that family had to deal with because of Kierra's ego.
Like sincerely. The wife was actually a good sport and pretty kind. And it’s coming from a black woman. Tiktok is bashing Ariana Grande for dating a married man but in the same breath defend Kierra for this. I can’t 😂
Right? And Kierra is almost acting like Felicia said "Kierra Lewis specifically is the worst, let's all attack her" when all that happened was she happened to not crop out her name in the screenshot... that's not at all "targeting" her like she insinuated
One of Kierra's fundamental misunderstandings about this situation is that a joke can still be sexual harassment. While screaming "Krak my back" may be just a joke to her, it's not to the player. I know so many women, myself included, who have had obscenities screamed at them as "just a joke" but it still doesn't change that its dehumanizing sexual harassment.
exactly. like we've all decided "make me a sandwich" and sexually explicit jokes aimed at women is hurtful, uncomfortable, demeaning, and just not funny... where did this get lost in translation?
Absolutely, can't believe she thinks it's okay to do this stuff! "What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander," or rather "what isn't sauce" in this case!
I feel like one of the biggest changes to Internet culture in the last few years is that being horny on main is totally socially acceptable. Ppl think it's acceptable to be openly horny at folks who just minding their business, not doing thirst traps or anything like that. It's so weird to me. Like they'll just ask a random person to make an onylfans. That's not cool
Yeah, I winced when she said, "It was a joke!" Like...gross dudes say that all the time. It's a cliche, at this point. No one should think for a second that it's ok to say every sexual thing that pops into your head about somebody just because you mean it as a joke or think it's funny. It's still sexual harassment if the target is a women and it's still sexual harassment if the target is a man.
This hockey player’s boss basically invited a person known for screaming sexual things at him…to his place of work so she could do it to his face. Like can you imagine? Not acceptable.
That's not what happened. Do you know how big an operation of running an NHL team is? How many people they invite to games? Every game they have someone sing the national anthem, invited guests. There was no possible way the Kraken knew she was going to scream that at them. They didn't know/were probably not aware she was going to do that. You're going to end up getting some low level social media employee fired. Stop blaming the social media team, who leaned into a trend and it went too far, and blame Kierra for not acting like a human being at the game.
@fwizzybee42 exactly. the team's mgmt facilitated en masse sexual harassment-i'd love to know whose idea it was to create the 'thirst' content in the first place. any conversations are bad regardless of the hierarchy at play, but *especially so* if it was coming from a mgmt rep down to a player. "hey guys i want to film you doing your groin stretches for tiktok"-what if a player were to say no?
Her justification of "its a joke/pun about the break my back tiktok saying" is so wild to me. Krack my back AND break my back are both sexual references and BOTH are inappropriate to scream in public so like don't?
Interesting. This shows my ignorance of what "booktok" is. When I heard "Break/Krack my back" in regards to books, I figured it was a clever reference to breaking the spine of a book by opening it. It seems like a neat catchphrase to encourage opening a good book. How did booktok miss this obvious connection?
@@PsiNorm I'm not part of booktok so it very well could also be used as a double entendre but it seems like a majority of that part of the internet is horny first and everything else second so it may have been accidental? 🤷♀️🤷♀️
@@PsiNormAs far as I know its a double entendre meaning both the spine of the book and to (pardon the phrase) bend someone over, the latter coming from the prominent erotica content in some corners of booktok. I could very well be wrong but that's what I know of it
The fact that she doubled down so hard on the phrase is really telling... Even if booktok intended it to be about the spine of the book, does she not realize how it could sound to other people?? It's wild to me how she just refuses to accept people can withdraw their consent at any time even when it comes to sexual references/sexual jokes.
Hell, go back to 80’s - 90’s Hockey, terrible hair, no teeth, black eyes everywhere and not a pretty boy in sight but all the 40 something guys Canada had to offer. They’d definitely raise an eyebrow at it.
i hate how kierra seems like she did not learn anything from this situation. this is sexual harassment. period. i’m sure she wouldn’t appreciate others doing the same to her.
The animal behind the glass comment was WILD. I can't believe she wasn't called out right then and there. I don't love how the situation was handled but at the end of the day Kierra was ultimately in the wrong.
Honestly, even if she herself learns something it won’t mean much if the community is not going to learn anything. Alex’s wife highlighting the 300 likes is an important point. This behavior was being egged on and encouraged and rewarded by a subset of “fans.” I have a feeling they will walk away convincing themselves Kierra’s behavior means they’re a reasonable exception to this absurdity and not take a moment to reflect on how they are core to the problem.
Even in her dms to his wife she only acknowledged that she stopped these comments because he was married, as if those horrible comments are appropriate towards single people. If this was a man screaming this shit at a female athlete, they would be fucking exiled, as they should. It should be no different when the victim is a man.
Ok, but the Kraken management/social media team should never have put their players into this position. They opened their employees up to the sexualization and when this entire mess spiraled out of control, they just covered their tracks. As an employer, Kraken should NEVER have done this collaboration with Kierra in the first place nor should it have made players lean into this sexualization on tiktok. Deleting all of the content on the official pages and not making a statement feels more like liability control than it feels like them actually backing the players up. Like Amanda mentioned, it is their duty as an employer to protect their employees from this kind of harassment. They clearly failed to do that. My guess is that they deleted all of the content on the official pages and refrained from making official comments, at least in part, to protect themselves from a potential sexual harassment or coercion suit.
Yeah it's really disgusting that they encouraged this and it took a player's wife making a post about it for them to realize they had fucked up. I wonder how many people had to approve her coming to the games and getting her own booktok jersey? Something tells me it wasn't enough because bringing a girl into the spectators yelling about "do all my holes" would be off-putting to other people just trying to enjoy the game (maybe even with their kids) and seems like a bad business move overall no matter how I look at it
I totally agree but I feel like for so many corporate brands, they have one or two people working on different social media accounts & that’s really as far as it goes. I feel like this was one person in charge of their TikTok who was like “oh hey, this is a trendy thing specific to our team that I can capitalize on!” & then they started feeding into the spicy booktok stuff without anyone else in the Kraken’s team knowing about it. Then once it all blew up outside of TikTok & the higher ups found out Larry the TikTok social media guy was making sexual innuendos on their official account, they scrubbed it clean. Still doesn’t negate their responsibility to fess up to how they played into it when it should have been obvious to avoid that like the plague. I guess I can see where they’re coming from though, when other companies are making bank by being unhinged on their social media posts 🤷♀️
I feel like if you aren’t on much social media and people were like ‘hey this is a thing now’ you might just be like oh okay and go with it without really understanding what it is.
From all of the workplace sexual harassment training I've received, the letter of the law suggests that sexual innuendos and jokes fall under the category of sexual harassment when the jokes are UNWANTED. Maybe Alex and Felecia WERE cool with it at one point, but as Amanda said, they retain the right to revoke that consent. This is why it's always better NOT to make sexual jokes about real people. You never know what someone is comfortable with. Clearly Kierra isn't sorry for what she said, she's sorry that she's getting called out for it. She's a weirdo who needs to grow up 🙄
ABSOLUTELY. this is 100% the reason why felicia never responded to kierra, nor the team to her [regardless if there was a professional agreement in place or not]-that would essentially be their social media mgmt team admitting culpability. re; felicia's response, i find the commentaries saying she should've reached out privately first to really miss the point. kierra in this instance is a sexual aggressor. no one would say 'she should've reached out privately' if it were a female victim of digital sexual harassment with a singular 'ringleader'/social media personality. ethically and socially she is owed no communication, and it is in the team's & wennbergs' best interests that they make a completely clean break. i can promise you those messages were turned over to a labor lawyer immediately [and rightfully so].
also, IMO, kierra already has a massive social media presence which in part revolves around content sexually harassing this player-felicia had no need to censor kierra's name; she just said the quiet part out loud in implicitly showing keirra as individual creator by name. this whole situation is grotesque, and i'm glad amanda reflected on her views actively within the editing process. nickisnotgreen has a great video on it, but other than swell & him, the commentary community's wider ambivalence to the 'sexual harassment in the workplace' dynamic is alarming
It’s absolutely WILD to see someone arguing with their full chest that “It’s not sexual harassment, it’s just a joke!” like this and somehow not recognizing that she’s the bad guy in this situation.
@@1-800-hcbrigs I think she knows exactly what she's doing. It's easy to assume everyone is always coming from an emotionally honest place because it's hard to imagine otherwise, but... that doesn't mean people who behave this way don't know what they're doing, just because they claim they don't know what they're doing.
@@1-800-hcbrigs Yeah, I get it. I used to be too. I used to lay things out for people all the time because I genuinely thought they were doing what they were doing because they were just misinformed. And maybe that used to be true. And for some things maybe, it still is. But for the most part? I've started to catch on that for stuff we've publically talked about as much as sexual harrassment? People who do it, they know. It makes me sad, but. They do.
a book reviewer I watch (withcindy) said about kierra's "response" to felicia's original instagram story was, "reading a lot of books does not mean you understand reading comprehension" and that's EXACTLY how I feel about everyone attacking felicia and taking the side of literal sexual harassment
Really? It seems OBVIOUS to me her actual issue was the DMs- that Kierra had nothing to do with. The whole idea that a black woman is being a predator towards a white man is so fucking absurd. Be for fucking real. Overly sexual language from men is scary becomes it often comes with an implicit threat- men commit 99% of assaults. A woman (clearly joking, having fun) about a
@@Uhohlisa Lmao, I just knew there'd be assholes trying to bring race into this, and here you are. I'm so sorry that you're so terminally online that you cannot grasp why shouting "FILL MY THREE HOLES" at someone unprompted is inappropiate regardless of race, but this is a conversation for well-adjusted people, you can go back to whatever little hole you crawled from.
@@Uhohlisathis si why no progress is made. beacuse women like you endorse the double standard instead of changing for the equality that it's gross both ways. if we treat men how we want to be treated, we have more fo a leg for change of them stopping being creeps. like how are you this dense. yes men are more dangerous, but how is that related to this still not being ok to do back to them? the guy and his wife was no longer ok with the joke, so back off. but she kept running on as opposed to just apologizing and moving on. the management sucked, that is true. but felicia was completely fair. if Kierra was teh one crying about gross comments, you would be up in arms for her (as you should) but it has to go both ways. otherwise you are just as scummy as scummy men.
@@Uhohlisa This is unironically one of the most sexist takes on this situation that I've heard. Is it true that the majority of sexually based crimes are committed by men? Yes. Is that an excuse for this specific situation? no. The idea that "oh she's just a silly woman having fun so the unwanted sexual advances don't matter right?" is like...the opposite of progressive. And not that it should even matter but I'm saying this as a black transgender person, no one's intersection points are an excuse for their behavior. No one gets to sexually degrade someone for their own gratification and then run from it because?.....reasons????. Like literally you're infantilizing this grown-ass woman and for what? like what was the goal. She knew better. This is human decency 101. Be ashamed of yourself for even thinking this was an okay thing to say.
@@Uhohlisa I agree with your first sentence, however, the rest is the most blatantly awful take I've seen. NO ONE deserves harassment of ANY nature, no ifs, no buts. How are we supposed to reach equality if we refuse to be equal? Anyone can be a predator and anyone can be a victim, and the experience of victims should be treated equally. According to the national sexual violence resource centre, 9% of victims of r*pe and SA are men, 1 in 16 men are SA'd in college and 35% of men have significant short/long-term impacts from these experiences. Unfortunately, a lot of these men are also LGBTQ+. These are just a few numbers but every negative SA statistic for men, women and in between should be 0 and we should take that seriously.
i’m so glad you mentioned how weird her comparison of being behind the glass at a zoo while watching actual… people … do thier jobs …really is. she comes off as if she sees them as objects, not people.
It’s like going to mf Walmart to point at the employees and pretend they’re monkeys behind glass, making those stupid mf noises at them. It’s like going to a regular ass doctors appointment and catcalling your doctor during your examination. People wouldn’t accept this if it happened to regular ass workers, so how do some people think it’s okay to treat celebrities like this???
i don't think it was too left field to explain that she thought is was sound proof, she was clearly embarrassed to find out it wasn't. it does show a fundamental misunderstanding of zoos, though. They aren't sound proof either lol
@@jamespadilionijr8362you’re clearly not hearing what they’re saying, because the zoo analogy conflates humans with animals. Animals in captivity presented for the entertainment of people. When has it been ok to suggest human beings are animals?
RPF is so weird if you are writing anything sexual or romantic. People seem to just forget that celebrities are real people. People really don't think about the impact that RPF can actually have on the relationships between celebrities. I will always remember that Lauren Jauregui spoke about how people shipping her and Camila impacted their friendship, especially since Lauren was queer but was not out, the way people wrote her as the 'agressor' made her feel uncomfortable in her own sexuality.
Exactly! The RUclipsrs Dan and Phil had a similar situation, everyone “shipping” them had an impact on their friendship and made living together awkward.
An example I know all too well was the two main leads of the Untamed. They quite literally had to stop being friends and being openly affectionate with eachother as friends because of the attitude of romantic relationships b3tween men in China. I'm fine for shipping characters but doing it to people is really weird. When I was just getting into fandom as a 12 year old, I tired to read RPF because I felt pressured but I could never finish it because it just felt so weird
RPF has always seemed to me like the peak of celebrity dehumanization. like "not treating celebrities like real people" is unfortunately common, but when you get to RPF its *literally* treating them like characters in a story.
I just want to pop on here and say that 99% of the hockey fandom does NOT agree with what happened with the Kraken, Alex and his wife. I’m deep in the hockey fandom trenches and I’m still appalled by this situation, and so are all my friends in the fandom. You have to separate the men you read about from the real guys in the NHL because they are REAL PEOPLE.
Absolutely! I am part of the hockey fandom on Tumblr and most of us learned about this situation after it blew up. Everyone I saw react to this was shocked and appalled about this whole situation. I was shocked when I found out the Kraken actually flew her out to a game. They have their fair share of blame for this situation getting out of hand.
I'm a 30 year old woman who grew up reading and writing fanfictions all the time my whole young adult life, but even I think this is getting weird 🥴 it's giving predatory.
definitely! as someone who does read fanfics (not celebrity/self-insert fanfics cause thats weird as hell) I can never imagine making (unwanted) sexual comments toward anyone, whether they are a celebrity or not. people should understand that boundaries need to be respected and to differentiate their fantasy with real life!
it's the breaking of that distance in parasocial content and treating IRL people as fictional characters. (Example: The Beatles/Elvis/Nsync had screaming fangirls, but those bands could walk away and never hear the more private thoughts.) Nowadays, people are way too comfortable tagging, DMing, and reaching out directly in person to objectify a person.
As a person who enjoys fanfic and romance (though not rpf) I find it particular strange when people break what used to be the golden rule of fandom: never ask actors/writers etc. about fandom. I find the treatment of real human people like characters even more troubling when it comes to projecting fandom onto them. It really just seems so simple to me to keep your comments and thirsting away from the actual presence of the celebrities. Don't tag them in fandom things, don't ask them about fandom things, and certainly don't make sexual comments to them in real life!!!
Except Supernatural, where they went meta with it an incorporated a book series about the main characters into the cannon universe. The main characters meet their fans. An all girl's school performs a musical about the series in the 200th episode. There's even an episode where the main characters are transported into an alternate universe where they are just actors, the actors that play the characters. But it would still be inappropriate to project the main characters into the actors who play them.
@@iampyuI think there's a conversation to be had about tv series like that who want to make money off fandom but don't really understand what they're getting into, like sherlock and supernatural.
Social media has allowed fandom and fanfic content to grow beyond the culture. Most of the people who violate these norms didn't initially encounter it at the source but at a far removed place like Instagram or Twitter/X. When we first learned about these things they were in specific, niche locations and in contained communities. Now new inductees first encounter is happenstance in the "public square" and that effects how they view the social acceptability of flaunting it.
I feel like with this and the Lizzo situation, it shows that a lot of people missed the point of the sexual liberation movement. Yeah, it's freedom OF sex, but it's also freedom FROM sex. Consent means when, where, with whom, and IF.
I'm sure every person who has ever cat-called me would argue they were joking if I confronted them. Even if she really thought it was a joke at the time, a phrase can be two things at once. What she said can be both a joke and sexual harrassement and the former does not negate that it was the latter.
You can tell she didn't give her wife's statement much thought because anyone who actually flipped the situation around would quickly recognize that a man doing this to a woman is not okay. Like yes we all need to think about and recognize our biases.
As a female that loves to watch hockey but also finds some hockey players really good looking I would never do this. What the booktoker says about these players is just disgusting 🤢.Felicia Alexander’s wife made a very amazing statement about this whole situation and she was very nice and was not mean in her statement. She always has a right to feel uncomfortable about this whole issue even when she was ok with it in the beginning. I feel like the booktoker just total missed the point of her statements and is completely insane!!
Yeah i get commenting online that you find them hot and exaggerate and all of that, but putting that under their famillyphotos and yell at them is way too far
Right! My family has teased me about having a “hockey husband” every season since I was old enough to have a crush. Now I’m almost 40 the crushes are on coaches. Lol. But I would NEVER holler at them at games, or be vulgar on posts.
@vvitch-mist20 Right? I'm the same way, and I feel like I'd be the same should I ever be lucky enough to see a celeb in person, even if it's someone I'm a fan of.
@@nikolasscheeksand the way kierra distorted her statement to make it seem like she was targeting her was so wild to me, how do you deliberately miss the point so hard
I agree. I wish she did cover up Kierra’s tag though because it did seem sketchy and like she was intentionally targeting her when she also used other people’s TikToks to prove her point without putting THEM on blast. But the point remains. It was a great statement, especially on the increasingly acceptable attitudes towards sexualizing men without their consent.
@@W4TSKYor it could of just been a mistake???? Especially if she was covering up the other names. With the positioning of it, it looks like she didn’t cover it up bc it wasn’t the comment that she was showing. Idk it seems super weird and kinda shitty to just assume that she had these malicious intentions and that it was done intentionally rather than just admit we have no idea and just give her the benefit of the doubt.
I suppose one thing I’m so curious about is why the kraken PR isn’t getting more heat. They literally invited her there and seemed to co sign her behavior until someone spoke up.
I really feel that, even with social media being a multi-decade tenured social phenomenon, for companies, social media is still the Wild West. The problem only gets worse given how quickly what’s considered acceptable can change, and how the extreme-ness of a message or attitude can escalate at the drop of a hat. Corporate structures aren’t well suited for the rapid decision making needed to properly manage that size of social media presence. That “krack my back” thing seems sort of benignly risqué until things escalate. Pre-escalation, it’s the sort of attitude that sells shirtless fireman calendars, and a PR person is going to likely see that as a good thing… but this is the internet; the land of too far, too fast and the “all three holes” thing may well have caught them out of left field, causing the social media team to want to run away from Kiera as far and as fast as possible, and I can’t find it in myself to blame them for choosing flight over fight here.
That part is totally fine except they shouldn’t have consented to their employees being harassed ever? Like this wouldn’t be acceptable anywhere else? Like what we’re looking at here is an employer inviting someone to yell lurid things at you, gave them express permission to be lewd towards you and their co workers. And then didn’t have the foresight to see that maybe people wouldn’t be ok with people screaming lewd things at them? It’s not ok in any capacity to encourage people to be weird to the people who work for you.
@@dobiegrrl While I agree with you completely, my empathy for the team’s social media managers comes from 2 places: the world of sports (where a variety of heckling is common) and lack of knowledge about this particular, specialized form of social media (namely influencer culture). Heckling… happens. Usually it’s not this inappropriate, and a little tone-deafness is not exactly surprising for a social media manager spinning as many plates as a major market sports team has going. Let’s also remember, this isn’t your average sports fan, this is a fan developed off of a newer platform who doesn’t necessarily know or conform to the social conventions ingrained into average sports fans, usually from childhood… so the media manager may well have not seen the comments or the potential backlash coming. Hell, I wonder exactly how close an eye the media manager was even keeping on the situation. Second, let’s be honest, as fans of Swell and other internet culture commentary creators, we have a better grip on influencer culture than the average person, even those that may consume influencer content. (It is entirely possible I don’t have a good grip on influencer culture. I’m a middle aged white dude, it’s not a space I really play in, but I’m trying to keep up because of the implications on modern sociology.) I’m betting the average sports team focused media manager isn’t keeping an eye on booktok, if they’re paying much attention to TikTok at all. This is a fringe subculture (hockey romance BookTok influencers) of a subculture (BookTok generally) of a social media site known for quick hits of engagement. I bet that the media manager saw TikTok as a place for game clips and slice of life shorts to go, not a place to look for potential sexual harassment. That thirst trap video mentioned in the coverage, do we know if that was being produced by the Kracken? If so, it tells us the team knew and was capitalizing (which was likely a mistake.) otherwise… And let’s be honest, the “all three holes” comment would have caught virtually anyone off guard. Sports fans can get vulgar and abusive, but that’s outside of the regular realm. I’m not saying Kracken management’s blameless, but I’m saying that giving them a little leeway for probably getting caught wildly off-guard might be in order.
This is so embarrassing! *WHY ARE YOU NOT EMBARASSED??* Not only is this booktoker sexually harassing someone, she also makes all this drama about herself. She's saying that she was personally attacked by Felicia when she wasn't even mentioned in the posts. She's saying that she apologized when all she really did was going into defense mode. She's claiming that Felicia slandered her when she herself claimed that the posts were about her. "It'S nOt HaRaSsMeNt, It'S hUmOr!!!" I bet she doesn't think that's funny if it's directed at her.
am i missing something? why does kierra keep mentioning that the joke was a play on "break my back" as a defense? i thought "break my back" was also a sexual term??
It is!!! That what’s so confusing to me she literally is saying overtly sexual things then saying it’s just a “tik tok thing” like it’s really not that phrase has been around since before tik tok and means you want the person to have sex with you so of course his WIFE doesn’t like that
Yeah, it's so wild that she's like "they're not getting the joke" when the reason they're uncomfortable is that they do get it. Textbook sexual harassment defense.
It miiight be a double entendre referencing breaking the spines of books (a well-worn meme/argument in the booktok community), but even so it carries such a different weight here that it's no real excuse.
I personally think RPF is weird but when it's published in designated spaces (like AO3) and not sent directly to the person involved I don't think it's inherently bad. Going to a game and yelling sexual things at people WHERE THEY CAN HEAR YOU is crossing the line of common decency and sense.
The Supernatural fandom really was the *worst* for that kind of shit. Giving actors fanfics about them, asking them to sign shipping art, going after wives, like what in the hell.
Best way to describe it yeah. Putting something on AO3 means the only way people would find is if they go looking, which seems to be what most of the fandom does because i didn't even KNOW they existed til a couple of years ago and that was only by accident. That to me is more respectful than the person i saw tagging mark Ruffalo in fanfic about bruce banner lol.
i’d only heard broken up discourse to this with mainly people reacting so i’m so glad amanda put out a video of this. cause this ain’t the side of booktok i’m on. kierra to me is just sounding like she’s trying to play victim. i don’t think her initial actions were anything malicious but the way she’s dragging this out like alex’s wife is looking for clout doesn’t sit right with me. she didn’t “single her out” or “insult her character” she used kierra’s video as an example and i think forgetting to scrub out her name was an honest mistake.
Ugh the fact that she uses all the hallmark "It was just a joke!" "You didn't have a problem with it BEFORE, why now??" etc. excuses to justify her behavior just sickens me tbh I understand that you hadn't considered how your actions would have made him feel at the time, but when people tell you it's not okay your first response shouldn't be to delegitimize their concerns >:/
Kierra literally didn't understand the difference between this man's WIFE referring to him in a sexual manner and a perfect stranger sexually harassing him.
As a very small booktok creator with a little community, I’m so glad you made the distinction that we aren’t all behaving like this, and everyone in my circle is very much on the side of Alex and Felicia. Honestly Felicia’s post felt very vulnerable and kind and while Kierra was the person who started this wave of people sending sexually charged messages, her post was to more than just Kierra but to other commenters who have kept the wave going. Kierra’s response was insanely over the top and it caused her fans to harass Felicia, when Kierra could have easily made a simple statements like you stated in the video and it could have been done.
I’m glad that she didn’t say it was everyone on booktoc (I don’t really watch booktoc though). There are people who will believe that everyone who is a part of booktoc or even people who enjoy reading romance books, especially hockey romance books are all like this, when most people just read romance because they enjoy reading and like the genre and the many sub genres. I personally don’t really use actual celebrities when I read a book, when picturing characters, I have seen celebrities or even characters from other media that reminds me of a book character I like, this is weather it’s how I picture the character or their personality. Which I think is completely fine. I’m not fine when people see an actual human being as an fictional character and sexualise them like their objects, even if they are fine with it, but especially when they say that it’s gone too far and ask people to stop.
I just wanna say Felicia is a fantastic writer. She managed to address a situation like this when she's not at all a public figure and likely hasn't had much training. She addressed a highly complicated, emotionally-charged situation with so much poise when I totally would've understood if she went on a messy twitter rant or something like so many people would've. I hope everybody is able to move on from this, I hope Kierra learns from this and I hope Felicia is able to have peace in her life again, and I *really* hope sports teams learns to not encourage rampant sexualization of their employees from fans.
When fanfic about celebrities was HUGE on Wattpad and Ao3 (not that it's not huge now, but there was definitely a boom a few years back), I was uncomfortable when the authors would beg fans to share it online with the celebrities. Like, it's fine to have this for you and your audience but there's a boundary needed for these people.
I mean it’s not really fine since I know people myself who have to deal with this being written about them and they feel SO violated. If it exists about someone that famous person will find out eventually and trust me they will almost never be okay with it
Really nice to see everyone coming out and talking about this , especially since the harrasment is largely women towards men. This doesn’t get spoken about enough when it’s men harassing women, and there seems to be even more silence towards men being harassed. It’s reassuring to see this stuff finally be discussed so wildly as it’s so prevalent in fandoms. Normally it’s teenagers writing fanfic, but seeing adult women do it is so concerning. Can’t believe it wasn’t called out sooner
It's a bot, literally posting the same three or four comments over and over again and self-liking them. Not sure if there's a goal to these or if someone just makes them to generate outrage. Report them for spam and move on.
I'm a woman in her early 20s that is apart of the tiktok community that loves old actors like Cillian Murphy, Mads Mikkelsen and etc. I will never thought or say i want them in bed or i want to do anything sexual with them. There's boundaries being a fan of someone and anything related to sex is a no no. Whenever i see those actors i would just admire their personalities and faces,no more than that
it’s just so inappropriate. i remember teen girls talking about how in love they were with like, tom hiddleston and stuff and even then it was so much less weird. rpf has gotten worse over the years
As a hardcore hockey fan & a longtime Swell viewer it’s so weird to have my two worlds collide lmao. It worries me that the wider hockey circles will (and have already started to) use this embarrassing behaviour of these booktokers to further ostracise women & non-binary fans and to justify their misogyny……
Right!? There's already a misogynistic assumption that all female hockey fans are "just there for the hot guys", the use of the term "puck bunnies", etc etc.... Kind of icky how the Kraken social media team thought like the only way they could bring in new female/non-straight-male fans to the game was by endorsing thirst traps.
Same situation as hockey fan and swell fan. What I find absolutely baffling though is how BookTok in the space of maybe 1 year managed to cross several lines and get a bad name for themselves, when the fucking 1Direction to NHL fan pipeline has been well documented for YEARS. How did they manage to burn bridges so much worse than the 1D imports ever did.
I was honestly SHOCKED when I saw what was being said about the player(s). It made me deeply uncomfortable just to hear it; I can't imagine if it were about myself or someone I knew. It's really bizarre and makes me glad that my fyp has filtered out my booktok videos fairly well.
Its so gross that shes outraged that the kraken were "riding booktoks coattails" and being mad that the wife made jokes about her husband being booktoks obsession. The wife probably thought it would just be a typical internet trend where it would fade out after a couple of weeks and thwy could joke about it for years. With it escalating i can fully understand the wife being like "ok for real this is too much, stop please"
16:29 I love how she's like "crack my back was a joke based off break my back. It was a joke." Okay. But a joke in YOUR circle. I'm not on booktok. I'm not even on tiktok. How is someone supposed to 'get' a joke if the joke requires someone to be on a specific side of booktok? Not to mention... people are more than allowed to be taken offense to jokes. "It's just a joke, guys!" is not a good defense.
Fr. The “crack my back is a joke based off of break my back and therefore it’s fine” is like ???? Yeah??? They’re both basically saying the same thing, which is something sexual, and that’s the problem??? Wtf
As both a Hockey fan and Swell fan, I’d thought my two worlds would cross, but the reason they have is so depressing and infuriating. Thanks Amanda for covering this. I feel so sorry for Alex and Felicia, why can’t people learn not to be creeps online.
As far as hockey goes, this even crosses over into Canadian politics, as sexual abuse scandals in Hockey Canada have been brought to light over the past few years. (And as you may know, hockey is a big part of Canadian culture)
One thing I can note as one of the dozens of crossover fans of Swell and hockey, at 12:53 you mentioned the team's potential social media policies, but another factor that's definitely at play somewhat is the fact that hockey's infamous for a culture of "be quiet and don't draw more attention to yourself than the team" (which, to be clear, has led to some horrific things, such as being cited as one of the reasons the Chicago Blackhawks swept the alleged abuse of a player by a trainer of theirs under the rug, which ultimately led to that same trainer being able to assault a minor). That makes it all the more significant to me that Wennberg wound up releasing a statement at all, because it's SO rare that players will say anything beyond "I'm just focused on helping the team" (and, good for him - everything I've heard about him is that he's a good person off the ice) Glad to see the hockey content, hopefully one day you'll cover the time one of the best players in the NHL made a Tumblr account before Hockey Tumblr made things so weird for him that he deleted it
Y'all, imagine having a client harass you at work and your boss making TikTok edits about how hot you are?! This would but the biggest HR violation in a regular workplace wtf
Not her notes excuses just being “I do it to other celebrities and they’re fine with it 🤷♀️” and “you were okay with it at first so you don’t get the change your mind” real nasty mindset in any situation
Probably more of a minor detail in this entire story, but does it irk somebody else that Kierra said she stopped making content about him when she found out he was married? It feels too close to harassing men only stopping when the woman says she's married/has a boyfriend, respecting the partner more than the person actually being harassed? It just feels icky.
Not a fan of the comments Kierra was making and they went too far even before anyone said they were uncomfortable, and it was definitely A-Okay for the consent to be revoked. But there is something that feels weird of it being so sudden and so many parties (including this guys employer??) getting to just duck out of saying the same thing without the same consequence. With so many parties egging booktok on (again including this guy's employer), I can see why people assumed it was fine until his wife spoke out and why that reaction was so confused. Krakens' account also needs to take some responsibility for egging this on tbh, especially since it seems like there was discomfort far earlier than when they came out about it.
Agreed. She should let it go and let the chips fall where they may due to her actions but she was heavily encouraged and egged on to do this on all sides. Social media, her salary, the official Krakens team management. They were scummy and should take responsibility. Again a lot of her actions were over the parasocial line by miles, such as the 3 holes line and screaming sexual things at them during the game but she shouldn't have been invited. This is what she does, if she was expected to film it obviously would have been sexual. Common sense is fake idea or else anti maskers wouldnt exist. The wife ofc has the right to revoke consent and be mad at Kierra ofc. It is a bit curious tagging her tho letting ppl find her page thereby promoting her and not the author of a book for the same reason but that's small potatoes. There really is a lack of understanding of consent when it comes to famous people, man or woman. There is definitely a flavor of entitlement when ppl do it to straight men, but i dont think harrassment is higher or equal to how famous women are still treated.
@@alltheworldatmyfeetCorrect me if im wrong but the author of the book didn't have anything to do with this. They never sexualized or made comments like Kierra about real people. They merely wrote a hockey romance book Kierra then read and became obsessed with hockey players.
This is my issue. Kierra is getting singled out here. Felicia’s first statement was way more targeted than people are saying it was. There is a difference between saying “hey I’m no longer comfortable with this” and what Felicia did.
I’m a bookseller at the b&n (almost) directly next to the kraken complex so i feel weirdly connected to this story. I’m not a romance/hockey fan at all but those books FLY off the shelf at our store. Even had someone asking for the book in question the other day. I don’t have any more thoughts, its just weird
i think it's important to note that fanfic writing used to be a personal thing that you'd keep to yourself or show your friends and giggle about, and even then i feel it was rarely about real people, it was more about sending yourself to hogwarts to get with Oliver Wood (just me? ok). the fact that fanfic is such a huge online thing now gives it a whole new atmosphere. I know that AO3 is 15 years old but until the last 5 years it was a shhh don't tell the normies kind of place. Sending people fanfic made about them is horrible. publicly posting yourself screaming sexual comments about them is WILD. people need to have more shame about this shit.
Yeah there is something really wrong with folk who write real person fic. Having had written it all the time as a kid 20 years ago now, it’s so different from what it is now. I have musician pals who have had fic written about them and it’s violated their consent so much and they have been hurt so badly. Rpf feeds peoples delusions and it often causes horrific interactions or these people lying about real life things that happened with the people of their fanfiction and try to make people believe they really have spent time with them. This is why so many famous people can the near their fans now. It’s really sad what happened to Harry Styles as well because he had to stop speaking to his best friend because of how bad the fanfiction got about the two of them (and they were kids do some of that time). It was so horrible how graphic it was and the two of them were so so traumatised by it.
This is probably the most accurate comment here. As a teenager, I used to hide my reading of non-sexual Harry Potter fanfics like I was hiding porn. As a young adult, when fanfic became more popular, I started to realize it wasn't an unusual or freakish thing to enjoy, so started engaging with it more. Now, at almost 30, when fanfics are being published and printed at the speed of light in order to rake in money hand over fist for desperate publishers, I have once again circled back to being ashamed of my fanfic-reading simply due to the shamelessness and cringe of the fandoms. Lol.🥲
@@Feraloidies stuff like this is funny and fine. When it’s about yourself with fictional characters it’s not an issue. But it is when it’s about real people and yourself because it’s ignoring the consent of the real people who HATE that this is being written
This reminds me of the boiling frog analogy. The wife was comfortable at first, because she didn’t realize how much it was making her uncomfortable or was going to make her uncomfortable, but she realized the pot was boiling. She was done, and she’s voiced up.
Oh for sure. It's one thing (the proverbial pan of warm water) to know that your husband is getting DMs from people who have crushes on him, but you don't have to see it and he can ignore it. It's another thing (proverbial boiling water) for your husband to be sexually harassed at his workplace!
what kills me is that she acts as if jokes can't also be sexual harassment... the amount of times me or women I know have been catcalled or harassed and then told "it's just a joke, you need to calm down" are more than I can count. It's not funny at all to follow people around and talk about how they want to have sex with them or talk about what sexual acts you'd perform to them. It's never funny.
Right it's incredibly hypocritical. If she was a man, I can't picture a whole sports team inviting her to come harass their team. It's belittled and viewed as less than harassment bc she's a woman, even though it's exactly what she's doing. Kierra knew the whole time that she was objectifying these men, yet she plays dumb on that once she's called out.
Imagine a man recording a woman in a professional tennis game while she's bent over picking up her ball or racket, and then screaming on tik tok about how hot she is and posting the video. Imagine that man is called out by that woman's spouse and then doubles-down. Imagine a man posting videos with pictures of female athletes screaming in far too much detail what holes he wants to be in or taste. The double standard is just insane. If Kierra was a man she'd probably have gotten arrested tbh (and rightfully so imo).
@rogerroger9952 where you said if a man did this hed be in jail but a woman did it so shes getting off scot free. men do this kind of stuff all the time with little to no consequence. at least shes getting dragged by the internet
@@ohboy-zi1yf I'll admit as someone who has never had a tiktok, twitter, snapchat, etc, I may be out of touch with that culture, but as far as I know I've never seen or heard of someone doing what this woman was doing but with the genders reversed. Misogyny is a thing, and men, especially powerful men, get away with disgusting shit, but the difference here is that she is a regular person who was getting away with publicly harassing these people for so long that she got a brand deal with the hockey team for fuck's sake. Also, it's a horrible argument to say "Yeah, well, she did something horrible but so do a lot of people." Okay? That doesn't make what she did any less shitty. I never said that misogyny isn't real, and the fact that you think I was when I was literally pointing out a double standard kind of proves my original point that the double standard is real.
Kierra, it doesn't matter if it was a joke. Jokes can still be sexual harrassment. It doesn't matter that other people you did this to were okay with it. If one person stops being ok with it, you stop. Point blank. It's disgusting that she's trying to justify this.
Two things are true here: - RPF is simply going to keep existing (because humans and the internet) - Coming into contact with RPF of yourself can be anything from enjoyable to deeply distressing Even if I presume the goodest of good faith from creators and consumers of RPF, I still think the onus is on them to keep the "all in good fun" party as contained as possible, and *particularly* far away from platforms with virality algorithms.
I live for these nuanced conversations about public figures and consent when it comes to fan appreciation vs exploitation/harassment! Which is why I want to clarify that when I say your shade of blush absolutely has you glowing, it's purely meant as admiration of the craft from one makeup enthusiast to another 👌
As a bookstagrammer who does cover hockey romance, this whole scenario makes me feel icky. I think a pr firm could've helped all 3 parties involved here because everything was handled soooo bad. It's rare I see bookish drama in the news but here we are.
Opinion that SHOULD BE extremely uncontroversial here: Writing fanfic about real life people who haven't given their explicit consent is weird and predatory, full stop. It makes you, in my eyes, no better than the weird creeps doing deepfakes of female celebrities. It's weird and exploitative and the fact you're doing it just because you want online clout / whatever scraps of revenue tiktok is generating for you makes you actual scum. I'm seriously worried about the people defending this Kierra girl because it's clear TikTok has rotted away any and all ability they might have once had to interact with human beings normally.
I don’t know if it’s especially upsetting to me just because I had a friend do that to me in middle school but I just don’t see how people can think it’s acceptable.
I hope you are going after all historical romance too because that is ALSO fanfic. writing about people is NORMAL, there were novels about Hamilton and Maria Reynolds published WHILE HAMITON WAS ALIVE. Just keep it on fanfic spaces and lock it.
I am always baffled because there was a very strong culture of “Do Not Share With The Actors/Creators/Writers/etc” in the fandom spaces I basically grew up in, like that is just a Boundary You Do Not Cross because that was how you kept the fandom space safe and kept positive relationships with any of the creators who want to engage with the fandom. It seems so obvious to not share fanfic about someone… with that person… unless explicitly invited to do so (and with the author or artist’s consent, because I know A Lot of writers and artists that would be/are horrified when their works are shared with the people featured in them too). So to me the whole situation just reeks of entitlement?
People don't have to be consistently uncomfortable, and demanding they follow a specific process when they ARE uncomfortable is unreasonable. Heck, we don't even know if the wife and sports-guy were ever really comfortable, or were just putting on their marketing face.
Being a hockey fan is wild Cause I heard about this via hockey channels a week back and now all the social commentary vids from RUclipsrs like Amanda are hitting lol
This is my first time hearing about this. I'm glad Amanda covered it since I probably would've never known until a while later without her vid. I don't follow many hockey channels on here and while I am on hockey twitter I haven't checked it in about two weeks
This was so weird to watch. I went to college with kierra and knew her pretty well. We rolled with the same circles, went to the same parties, pretty sure I’d even been to her apartment a couple times. Even since we were in school she had always been trying to garner a following on social media. It’s so strange seeing an old college buddy getting into social media drama
As someone who has been semi-into rpf fandoms since livejournal days, I think the main thing for me and many others was DO NOT make the people involved aware of it. Just keep it to your corner of the internet and don't involve them in it. Seeing people directly tagging people and asking people in public spaces about it makes me so uncomfortable, just leave them alone!
@@liveluvcryotherapy oh! I know, just saying that rpf is kinda related to this kindof thing (real life people and fandoms colliding) and they shouldn't be dragged into either
@@liveluvcryotherapyit literally doesn't matter and you commenting that serves as nothing more than as a distraction from the actually serious issue being discussed. This is like a fan version of "men too" in any and all discussions about women being SA; it seems you're only doing this because you're unwilling to admit that rpf is problematic too.
As a life long woman hockey fan seeing the new interest in hockey from people made me so excited at first. I LOVE hockey and was excited to talk to more people about hockey. But as things went on I became more and more horrified.
Felicia and Alex handled all of this so gracefully with such sensible statements, completely aware of the context and their boundaries. I'm glad they seem to be on the same page about this and have each other to lean on!
I can’t express just how much of a comfort creator you are to me. This summer has meant a ton of change and travel and transition for me (all of it is good, actually so good that it’s overwhelming hahaha). No matter whether I’m trying to get over jet lag or driving for forty minutes to go to the social security office or unpacking tons of stuff (I got married, went across the world with my husband for our honeymoon, and then moved to another state when we got back, and started a new job, all within like 3 weeks aaahhh!!!!), I will put on your newest upload no matter what I’m doing or where I am. Your constant uploads this summer has actually been one of the few areas of consistency and you talking about these “trivial” and silly and fun things has added much needed normalcy in my life!! Love you!!!
Never used tiktok but do love hockey romances. So sad that a few adult readers are sexualizing real people because they can't separate fiction from reality like the rest of romance readers have been telling the world we're able to do since the beginning of time
There are people who _probably_ should be steered away from this kind of stuff because they have a history of not being able to separate fantasy from reality (for any number of reasons). But I suspect there are other people who know how to separate fiction from reality, but only do it when it suits them to do it.
As a hockey fan and a hockey romance fan, WOW! TikTok has really lost the plot, you can enjoy things without taking it so far that you’re harassing players and their families.
i've always found RPFs weird and never really fucked with them but i think a lot of people are forgetting that fanfiction/fancasts/etc are strictly fan-only spaces, its one thing to find someone attractive and write fanfiction or whatever, it's another to make it THEIR problem by forcing them to see it (on their feeds, or in this case doing it at this poor man's workplace). like jesus christ i remember a while back at a drag con (i think) panel with trixie mattel and katya some fan came up and word for word read out loud an extremely smutty fanfiction about them and like ??? side note: you might not want booktok to come at you but i dont mind it and i just wanna say: i have NEVER read a booktok recommendation and thought it was even average, let alone good. But! book-ish content on youtube does have a lot of good creators.
This hits close to home in that my husband deals with harassment from women in his profession more than he should (which is he shouldn't.... at all.). The audacity of some people is just mind blowing and it's irritating to no end that were the roles reversed, someone would have lost a job already. But because it's a woman harassing a man, no one is held accountable. When I asked why doesn't he go to HR or someone about it, he's said it would be a "he said, she said" situation and nothing would come of it. It's just really sad that men don't get the same levels of protection as women do when s* harassment is involved.
people who are super into RPF never want to hear it but when stuff like this happens, how can they still deny that RPF is not good and can hurt people because they're REAL PEOPLE
@@Princes_Luna people sometimes do role-playing as whoever they're fixated on (like i literally have a friend of a friend deep into bts rpf) but rpf just means "real person fiction" and that means someone consumes or creates fan content (fan fic, fan art, edits) of famous people the way you would for fictional characters. it's relatively harmless, until something like this or just blurring the lines between what's real and what isn't about the person/people someone is obsessed with makes it all very weird
It’s cause their brain can’t truely understand the “real” person part of RPF. To them real just means “when they talk its not written dialogue” it seems. It’s so easy for a lot of people to just…not see other humans as humans like them specially if you don’t see them everyday cause I’ve seen that happen with people who arnt even celebrity’s and social media just makes it worse
As someone who initially saw Kierra's point but then heard the whole statement from Felicia and realized that Kierra's reaction was completely wrong, I appreciate videos like this existing! The Kracken are very liable here for making a crappy situation even worse by not owning up to their huge contribution to this situation. Kierra's argument of "everyone else did it too, why single me out" was just really childish to me... it's like textbook immaturity. And just because something has been okay up to this point doesn't mean things can never change. 😬 Attacking Felicia and making insinuations about their marriage is just icky and gross and should tell you everything you need to know about people like this.
Sigh. I had thought that the majority of us had decided that it wasn't cool to write uhh, spicy (or romantic tbh) kind of fiction about real people. Or sexualize them publicly.
I was hoping you’d talk about this! Wennberg used to play for my favorite team here in Stockholm as a jr and in my mind he was still a teenager, so suddenly seeing him and his family in this context was so surreal. I think his wife and him both handled this very respectfully.
I feel like you're right on all points. And I'm so glad you ended it with reiterating that consent can be revoked at any time. I just feel sometimes people forget that celebrities are people too
I appreciate how you handled this topic and didn’t lump all of booktok together. I’m a book reviewer and had never heard of the woman involved until this week, so it is very true that a good portion of us have no involvement in this type of behavior whatsoever. Thank you for covering this with your usual insight and grace. ❤
i'm a smaller booktokker (mostly sff + sapphic content) and a longtime fan! this video was great! you covered everything and your commentary on fandom/consent was fantastic. especially love how you made distinctions, i promise we're not all like this!
Thank you for talking about this! While I had no idea that this happened, it’s such an important thing to talk about. I loved how you stated that when consent for things like this is revoked, the only thing you can say is sorry and that I won’t cross that line again. As someone whose been in multi-a-fandom, I always try my best to respect the creator’s wishes. I may not been that understanding of what the boundaries meant when I was a teen, but I’m at the point where I realize that they are too human and have things that they are uncomfortable with and I must respect that.
Booktoker here (of the non hockey romance variety), I personally love videos like the types on your channel and know many others part of the community who do too; thank you for making a video on this topic and making the distinction b/w the specific sub-community of booktok and the rest of booktok (which many other people have failed to do) because I know that many people who are very active in the book space, like myself, had no idea what was going on, or who this "queen of booktok" was before this drama. I personally had no idea this was going on until I saw a tweet, not even something on tiktok, with someone reacting to the wife's instagram stories with her response. It's great seeing people that I follow for other reasons discuss this and use it to hold important conversations on these topics. Keep up the awesome videos
Whats worse now is that the booktokers have now moved on to biker tiktok and leaving really crazy comments. One of them stalked a biker in a bookstore and uwued at him. Its getting out of hand and embarrassing.
The fact that this made it outside of the booktok sphere is really mind-boggling to me. I would say 98% of TikTok disagrees with what happened and it sucks that it’s being lumped together. It’s a boundary. If you wouldn’t like people doing it to you, don’t do it to other people, especially when they’ve said it’s inappropriate and uncomfortable to them.
Bruh this is literally why tiktok being 2013 tumblr is a problem. Tiktok is way too public. While I’m super not a fan of real people fanfics and the like, at least on tumblr it stays in the shadowlands. People are actively seeking out fandom if they go on tumblr and it doesn’t get thrown in their face (for the most part).
i’m 26, i really only watch youtube and have fallen into creators. i prefer to listen to real people’s opinions and thoughts. i don’t use any other social media and wow. this was such a trip to listen to and hear play out. even with literally no knowledge on what any of this meant prior. Gosh. Amanda can really cook up the perfect execution to tell a situation.
Also I think something that needs to be talked about is how social media affects how people act and say things they normally wouldn’t. Even Kierra mentioned that she felt so embarrassed when she was at the game and yelling at the glass and then found out that the players could hear her - which is crazy because she literally is posting much worse for anyone to see online. 29:58
There are nice respectful boundaries that exist in any type of fandom activity, including RPF. Some people love bulldosing over those lines. You can't give into all of your worst impulses all the time. Keep some of those thoughts inside.
I’m a massive hockey fan and hadn’t heard about this yet. Time to get the popcorn. Heads up, the smallest of notes, it’s singular Kraken rather than plural Krakens. Hope the dude bros don’t blast you for something so trivial but 💁
Moral of the story: take an extended break from social media now and then and go outside. I’ve never been more happy to not be interested in TikTok, Instagram and fan fiction romance novels in my entire life.
The way Kierra completely misrepresented the wife’s points and feelings and took it all as a direct attack rather than trying to understand her feelings at all was so disgusting to me. And the way she went on the defensive and attacked the wife was even worse. I truly think she’s a gross human being.
I am on romance booktok and hockey booktok. I love the books, the authors and enjoy the hockey edits I discovered. However when consent is revoked then it is done, and RPF is awkward at best and goes icky pretty quickly. I guess one thing I have not loved from everyone else is the immediate attack from mainstream media attacking spicy readers and authors. Your coverage was the most even handed I’ve seen.
A home game for The Krakens was my first hockey match. I had no idea that booktok was doing this. Like, I would have leaned into too-men don’t always realize where the “joke” vs. harassment line is-but people are wild and take things way too far. Yikes. People are perfectly within their rights to be like “hey, I thought I was okay with this, but it turns out I’m not.”
@NotVille_ youre replying to everyone, saying kierra is in the right. no she isnt. shes weird and made sexual jokes toward a man who didnt ask for it. his wife spoke up and she decided his wife is the villain
People don't give intros enough credit. Her's is my favorite intro. It's short simple, and silly. Some people make their intro so long and elaborate but it feels like it takes away from the video. Hers is like 5 seconds at most and silly. Love it
Agreed. It's my favorite too. I like intros and hate it when people just start talking especially when they're a big enough creator to start asking for money. But I also hate it when an intro is so long that I can press the skip button and it will still be going. It like ok this is not a TV show; especially when the video isn't 30+ min long cause then the intro is 1/3 of the video. Some creators trying to make the videos feel like a TV show without the quality and length of a TV show.
The part that annoys me the most if that Kierra Lewis MADE this situation about her and totally deflected from Felicia's point. She never said Kierra was the problem, she said the behavior she saw was the issue. And going on live to talk trash about her is cruel. The fact that Felicia had to make a second statement to clarify her easily understood point just makes me sadder. It's awful what that family had to deal with because of Kierra's ego.
Like sincerely. The wife was actually a good sport and pretty kind. And it’s coming from a black woman. Tiktok is bashing Ariana Grande for dating a married man but in the same breath defend Kierra for this. I can’t 😂
Right? And Kierra is almost acting like Felicia said "Kierra Lewis specifically is the worst, let's all attack her" when all that happened was she happened to not crop out her name in the screenshot... that's not at all "targeting" her like she insinuated
@NotVille_ ok how?
@@adamrbrewer1660 they're a troll they're just saying contrary stuff for the sake of it
@NotVille_ absolutely not
One of Kierra's fundamental misunderstandings about this situation is that a joke can still be sexual harassment. While screaming "Krak my back" may be just a joke to her, it's not to the player. I know so many women, myself included, who have had obscenities screamed at them as "just a joke" but it still doesn't change that its dehumanizing sexual harassment.
exactly. like we've all decided "make me a sandwich" and sexually explicit jokes aimed at women is hurtful, uncomfortable, demeaning, and just not funny... where did this get lost in translation?
Absolutely, can't believe she thinks it's okay to do this stuff! "What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander," or rather "what isn't sauce" in this case!
I feel like one of the biggest changes to Internet culture in the last few years is that being horny on main is totally socially acceptable. Ppl think it's acceptable to be openly horny at folks who just minding their business, not doing thirst traps or anything like that. It's so weird to me. Like they'll just ask a random person to make an onylfans. That's not cool
if a man comes up to Kierra and begs her to sit on his face, she'll be hella uncomfortable and disturbed....
Yeah, I winced when she said, "It was a joke!" Like...gross dudes say that all the time. It's a cliche, at this point. No one should think for a second that it's ok to say every sexual thing that pops into your head about somebody just because you mean it as a joke or think it's funny. It's still sexual harassment if the target is a women and it's still sexual harassment if the target is a man.
This hockey player’s boss basically invited a person known for screaming sexual things at him…to his place of work so she could do it to his face. Like can you imagine? Not acceptable.
Contextualized that way literally makes it so clear how wild that was!!
That's not what happened. Do you know how big an operation of running an NHL team is? How many people they invite to games? Every game they have someone sing the national anthem, invited guests. There was no possible way the Kraken knew she was going to scream that at them. They didn't know/were probably not aware she was going to do that. You're going to end up getting some low level social media employee fired. Stop blaming the social media team, who leaned into a trend and it went too far, and blame Kierra for not acting like a human being at the game.
It's not like managers take the sexual harassment of men seriously in other contexts either.
Right! Thats why when kiara tries to use their bosses consigning it as a defense im like no babe that means the bosses are complicit.
@fwizzybee42 exactly. the team's mgmt facilitated en masse sexual harassment-i'd love to know whose idea it was to create the 'thirst' content in the first place. any conversations are bad regardless of the hierarchy at play, but *especially so* if it was coming from a mgmt rep down to a player. "hey guys i want to film you doing your groin stretches for tiktok"-what if a player were to say no?
Her justification of "its a joke/pun about the break my back tiktok saying" is so wild to me. Krack my back AND break my back are both sexual references and BOTH are inappropriate to scream in public so like don't?
Interesting. This shows my ignorance of what "booktok" is. When I heard "Break/Krack my back" in regards to books, I figured it was a clever reference to breaking the spine of a book by opening it. It seems like a neat catchphrase to encourage opening a good book. How did booktok miss this obvious connection?
@@PsiNorm I'm not part of booktok so it very well could also be used as a double entendre but it seems like a majority of that part of the internet is horny first and everything else second so it may have been accidental? 🤷♀️🤷♀️
@@PsiNormAs far as I know its a double entendre meaning both the spine of the book and to (pardon the phrase) bend someone over, the latter coming from the prominent erotica content in some corners of booktok. I could very well be wrong but that's what I know of it
The fact that she doubled down so hard on the phrase is really telling... Even if booktok intended it to be about the spine of the book, does she not realize how it could sound to other people?? It's wild to me how she just refuses to accept people can withdraw their consent at any time even when it comes to sexual references/sexual jokes.
yeah that was so weird to me. "she just doesn't understand it's a pun on break my back!!' like.... okay and what is THAT referring to????
Imagine going back in time and trying to explain what “hockey romance booktok” is to someone in the 1950s
Hahahaha omg. That discussion would take like... A month. So much stuff would need to be explained before you could get to the issue.
They had pulp smut too, it's a remote bookclub about hockey players now why it's so big would be hard to explain.
Hell, go back to 80’s - 90’s Hockey, terrible hair, no teeth, black eyes everywhere and not a pretty boy in sight but all the 40 something guys Canada had to offer.
They’d definitely raise an eyebrow at it.
a community of people who read and write romance novels that are about people who play a sport. its not that hard.
I’m 21 and refuse to use any social media and it took me a second to understand wtf booktok was
i hate how kierra seems like she did not learn anything from this situation. this is sexual harassment. period. i’m sure she wouldn’t appreciate others doing the same to her.
The animal behind the glass comment was WILD. I can't believe she wasn't called out right then and there. I don't love how the situation was handled but at the end of the day Kierra was ultimately in the wrong.
If they were a white man she'd probably love it
Honestly, even if she herself learns something it won’t mean much if the community is not going to learn anything. Alex’s wife highlighting the 300 likes is an important point. This behavior was being egged on and encouraged and rewarded by a subset of “fans.” I have a feeling they will walk away convincing themselves Kierra’s behavior means they’re a reasonable exception to this absurdity and not take a moment to reflect on how they are core to the problem.
Kierra is still sitting with the notion that admiring someone is no longer wanted and is hurt… she’ll be okay
Even in her dms to his wife she only acknowledged that she stopped these comments because he was married, as if those horrible comments are appropriate towards single people. If this was a man screaming this shit at a female athlete, they would be fucking exiled, as they should. It should be no different when the victim is a man.
Ok, but the Kraken management/social media team should never have put their players into this position. They opened their employees up to the sexualization and when this entire mess spiraled out of control, they just covered their tracks.
As an employer, Kraken should NEVER have done this collaboration with Kierra in the first place nor should it have made players lean into this sexualization on tiktok.
Deleting all of the content on the official pages and not making a statement feels more like liability control than it feels like them actually backing the players up.
Like Amanda mentioned, it is their duty as an employer to protect their employees from this kind of harassment. They clearly failed to do that. My guess is that they deleted all of the content on the official pages and refrained from making official comments, at least in part, to protect themselves from a potential sexual harassment or coercion suit.
Yeah it's really disgusting that they encouraged this and it took a player's wife making a post about it for them to realize they had fucked up. I wonder how many people had to approve her coming to the games and getting her own booktok jersey? Something tells me it wasn't enough because bringing a girl into the spectators yelling about "do all my holes" would be off-putting to other people just trying to enjoy the game (maybe even with their kids) and seems like a bad business move overall no matter how I look at it
@@jamespadilionijr8362we can do both
I agree leaning into the joke is fine as long as it doesn't harm the players or brand in the long run
I totally agree but I feel like for so many corporate brands, they have one or two people working on different social media accounts & that’s really as far as it goes. I feel like this was one person in charge of their TikTok who was like “oh hey, this is a trendy thing specific to our team that I can capitalize on!” & then they started feeding into the spicy booktok stuff without anyone else in the Kraken’s team knowing about it. Then once it all blew up outside of TikTok & the higher ups found out Larry the TikTok social media guy was making sexual innuendos on their official account, they scrubbed it clean. Still doesn’t negate their responsibility to fess up to how they played into it when it should have been obvious to avoid that like the plague. I guess I can see where they’re coming from though, when other companies are making bank by being unhinged on their social media posts 🤷♀️
I feel like if you aren’t on much social media and people were like ‘hey this is a thing now’ you might just be like oh okay and go with it without really understanding what it is.
From all of the workplace sexual harassment training I've received, the letter of the law suggests that sexual innuendos and jokes fall under the category of sexual harassment when the jokes are UNWANTED. Maybe Alex and Felecia WERE cool with it at one point, but as Amanda said, they retain the right to revoke that consent. This is why it's always better NOT to make sexual jokes about real people. You never know what someone is comfortable with. Clearly Kierra isn't sorry for what she said, she's sorry that she's getting called out for it. She's a weirdo who needs to grow up 🙄
ABSOLUTELY. this is 100% the reason why felicia never responded to kierra, nor the team to her [regardless if there was a professional agreement in place or not]-that would essentially be their social media mgmt team admitting culpability. re; felicia's response, i find the commentaries saying she should've reached out privately first to really miss the point. kierra in this instance is a sexual aggressor. no one would say 'she should've reached out privately' if it were a female victim of digital sexual harassment with a singular 'ringleader'/social media personality.
ethically and socially she is owed no communication, and it is in the team's & wennbergs' best interests that they make a completely clean break. i can promise you those messages were turned over to a labor lawyer immediately [and rightfully so].
also, IMO, kierra already has a massive social media presence which in part revolves around content sexually harassing this player-felicia had no need to censor kierra's name; she just said the quiet part out loud in implicitly showing keirra as individual creator by name. this whole situation is grotesque, and i'm glad amanda reflected on her views actively within the editing process. nickisnotgreen has a great video on it, but other than swell & him, the commentary community's wider ambivalence to the 'sexual harassment in the workplace' dynamic is alarming
@NotVille_no
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
😂😂😂
It’s absolutely WILD to see someone arguing with their full chest that “It’s not sexual harassment, it’s just a joke!” like this and somehow not recognizing that she’s the bad guy in this situation.
It can be a joke and sexual harassment at the same time, which is something she doesn’t get
@@1-800-hcbrigs I think she knows exactly what she's doing. It's easy to assume everyone is always coming from an emotionally honest place because it's hard to imagine otherwise, but... that doesn't mean people who behave this way don't know what they're doing, just because they claim they don't know what they're doing.
@@gideongrace1977 ahhhh true. I’m definitely too free with giving people the benefit of the doubt 😅
@@1-800-hcbrigs Yeah, I get it. I used to be too. I used to lay things out for people all the time because I genuinely thought they were doing what they were doing because they were just misinformed. And maybe that used to be true. And for some things maybe, it still is. But for the most part? I've started to catch on that for stuff we've publically talked about as much as sexual harrassment? People who do it, they know. It makes me sad, but. They do.
a book reviewer I watch (withcindy) said about kierra's "response" to felicia's original instagram story was, "reading a lot of books does not mean you understand reading comprehension" and that's EXACTLY how I feel about everyone attacking felicia and taking the side of literal sexual harassment
Really? It seems OBVIOUS to me her actual issue was the DMs- that Kierra had nothing to do with.
The whole idea that a black woman is being a predator towards a white man is so fucking absurd. Be for fucking real.
Overly sexual language from men is scary becomes it often comes with an implicit threat- men commit 99% of assaults. A woman (clearly joking, having fun) about a
@@Uhohlisa Lmao, I just knew there'd be assholes trying to bring race into this, and here you are. I'm so sorry that you're so terminally online that you cannot grasp why shouting "FILL MY THREE HOLES" at someone unprompted is inappropiate regardless of race, but this is a conversation for well-adjusted people, you can go back to whatever little hole you crawled from.
@@Uhohlisathis si why no progress is made. beacuse women like you endorse the double standard instead of changing for the equality that it's gross both ways. if we treat men how we want to be treated, we have more fo a leg for change of them stopping being creeps. like how are you this dense. yes men are more dangerous, but how is that related to this still not being ok to do back to them? the guy and his wife was no longer ok with the joke, so back off. but she kept running on as opposed to just apologizing and moving on. the management sucked, that is true. but felicia was completely fair. if Kierra was teh one crying about gross comments, you would be up in arms for her (as you should) but it has to go both ways. otherwise you are just as scummy as scummy men.
@@Uhohlisa This is unironically one of the most sexist takes on this situation that I've heard. Is it true that the majority of sexually based crimes are committed by men? Yes. Is that an excuse for this specific situation? no. The idea that "oh she's just a silly woman having fun so the unwanted sexual advances don't matter right?" is like...the opposite of progressive.
And not that it should even matter but I'm saying this as a black transgender person, no one's intersection points are an excuse for their behavior. No one gets to sexually degrade someone for their own gratification and then run from it because?.....reasons????. Like literally you're infantilizing this grown-ass woman and for what? like what was the goal. She knew better. This is human decency 101.
Be ashamed of yourself for even thinking this was an okay thing to say.
@@Uhohlisa I agree with your first sentence, however, the rest is the most blatantly awful take I've seen. NO ONE deserves harassment of ANY nature, no ifs, no buts. How are we supposed to reach equality if we refuse to be equal? Anyone can be a predator and anyone can be a victim, and the experience of victims should be treated equally. According to the national sexual violence resource centre, 9% of victims of r*pe and SA are men, 1 in 16 men are SA'd in college and 35% of men have significant short/long-term impacts from these experiences. Unfortunately, a lot of these men are also LGBTQ+. These are just a few numbers but every negative SA statistic for men, women and in between should be 0 and we should take that seriously.
i’m so glad you mentioned how weird her comparison of being behind the glass at a zoo while watching actual… people … do thier jobs …really is. she comes off as if she sees them as objects, not people.
It’s like going to mf Walmart to point at the employees and pretend they’re monkeys behind glass, making those stupid mf noises at them. It’s like going to a regular ass doctors appointment and catcalling your doctor during your examination. People wouldn’t accept this if it happened to regular ass workers, so how do some people think it’s okay to treat celebrities like this???
i don't think it was too left field to explain that she thought is was sound proof, she was clearly embarrassed to find out it wasn't. it does show a fundamental misunderstanding of zoos, though. They aren't sound proof either lol
@@Feraloidiesmy thoughts exactly lmfao 😭😭 the animals can still hear you in zoos
I hope people don’t holler innuendos at zoo animals O.o
@@jamespadilionijr8362you’re clearly not hearing what they’re saying, because the zoo analogy conflates humans with animals. Animals in captivity presented for the entertainment of people. When has it been ok to suggest human beings are animals?
RPF is so weird if you are writing anything sexual or romantic. People seem to just forget that celebrities are real people. People really don't think about the impact that RPF can actually have on the relationships between celebrities. I will always remember that Lauren Jauregui spoke about how people shipping her and Camila impacted their friendship, especially since Lauren was queer but was not out, the way people wrote her as the 'agressor' made her feel uncomfortable in her own sexuality.
Exactly! The RUclipsrs Dan and Phil had a similar situation, everyone “shipping” them had an impact on their friendship and made living together awkward.
An example I know all too well was the two main leads of the Untamed. They quite literally had to stop being friends and being openly affectionate with eachother as friends because of the attitude of romantic relationships b3tween men in China. I'm fine for shipping characters but doing it to people is really weird. When I was just getting into fandom as a 12 year old, I tired to read RPF because I felt pressured but I could never finish it because it just felt so weird
*cries in Larry Stylinson*
I was surprised to learn that people still ship it to this day.
RPF has always seemed to me like the peak of celebrity dehumanization. like "not treating celebrities like real people" is unfortunately common, but when you get to RPF its *literally* treating them like characters in a story.
@@trash_chan oh god I remember that
I just want to pop on here and say that 99% of the hockey fandom does NOT agree with what happened with the Kraken, Alex and his wife. I’m deep in the hockey fandom trenches and I’m still appalled by this situation, and so are all my friends in the fandom. You have to separate the men you read about from the real guys in the NHL because they are REAL PEOPLE.
Agreed!
So brave.👏👏👏👏👏👏
Absolutely! I am part of the hockey fandom on Tumblr and most of us learned about this situation after it blew up. Everyone I saw react to this was shocked and appalled about this whole situation. I was shocked when I found out the Kraken actually flew her out to a game. They have their fair share of blame for this situation getting out of hand.
So weird!! I thought all kraken heads just watched the matches and enjoyed the sport, what's all of this about booktok 😭😭
Agreed I love romance novels and hockey but this situation is downright disgusting
I'm a 30 year old woman who grew up reading and writing fanfictions all the time my whole young adult life, but even I think this is getting weird 🥴 it's giving predatory.
It's gone too far for sure.
definitely! as someone who does read fanfics (not celebrity/self-insert fanfics cause thats weird as hell) I can never imagine making (unwanted) sexual comments toward anyone, whether they are a celebrity or not. people should understand that boundaries need to be respected and to differentiate their fantasy with real life!
it's the breaking of that distance in parasocial content and treating IRL people as fictional characters. (Example: The Beatles/Elvis/Nsync had screaming fangirls, but those bands could walk away and never hear the more private thoughts.) Nowadays, people are way too comfortable tagging, DMing, and reaching out directly in person to objectify a person.
I remember the SPN fandoms obbession with real people fics. It was always so weird and gross.
Nah it's weird in the fanfic community too, men's hockey rpf is one of the biggest tags on AO3
As a person who enjoys fanfic and romance (though not rpf) I find it particular strange when people break what used to be the golden rule of fandom: never ask actors/writers etc. about fandom. I find the treatment of real human people like characters even more troubling when it comes to projecting fandom onto them. It really just seems so simple to me to keep your comments and thirsting away from the actual presence of the celebrities. Don't tag them in fandom things, don't ask them about fandom things, and certainly don't make sexual comments to them in real life!!!
Younger fandoms moving to twitter and tiktok (aka platforms where you can directly interact with celebrities) definitely played a part in that
Except Supernatural, where they went meta with it an incorporated a book series about the main characters into the cannon universe. The main characters meet their fans. An all girl's school performs a musical about the series in the 200th episode.
There's even an episode where the main characters are transported into an alternate universe where they are just actors, the actors that play the characters.
But it would still be inappropriate to project the main characters into the actors who play them.
@@iampyuI think there's a conversation to be had about tv series like that who want to make money off fandom but don't really understand what they're getting into, like sherlock and supernatural.
i feel like its mostly younger people. i hope.
Social media has allowed fandom and fanfic content to grow beyond the culture. Most of the people who violate these norms didn't initially encounter it at the source but at a far removed place like Instagram or Twitter/X. When we first learned about these things they were in specific, niche locations and in contained communities. Now new inductees first encounter is happenstance in the "public square" and that effects how they view the social acceptability of flaunting it.
I feel like with this and the Lizzo situation, it shows that a lot of people missed the point of the sexual liberation movement. Yeah, it's freedom OF sex, but it's also freedom FROM sex. Consent means when, where, with whom, and IF.
YES. exactly
Amen.
I'm sure every person who has ever cat-called me would argue they were joking if I confronted them. Even if she really thought it was a joke at the time, a phrase can be two things at once. What she said can be both a joke and sexual harrassement and the former does not negate that it was the latter.
@NotVille_ ???
I can tell you for sure, all the people who made unsolicited sexual advances at me, all said it was a joke when they were rejected or told to stop
@@aspwnedthey are probably a troll…
You can tell she didn't give her wife's statement much thought because anyone who actually flipped the situation around would quickly recognize that a man doing this to a woman is not okay.
Like yes we all need to think about and recognize our biases.
As a female that loves to watch hockey but also finds some hockey players really good looking I would never do this. What the booktoker says about these players is just disgusting 🤢.Felicia Alexander’s wife made a very amazing statement about this whole situation and she was very nice and was not mean in her statement. She always has a right to feel uncomfortable about this whole issue even when she was ok with it in the beginning. I feel like the booktoker just total missed the point of her statements and is completely insane!!
Yeah i get commenting online that you find them hot and exaggerate and all of that, but putting that under their famillyphotos and yell at them is way too far
Right! My family has teased me about having a “hockey husband” every season since I was old enough to have a crush. Now I’m almost 40 the crushes are on coaches. Lol. But I would NEVER holler at them at games, or be vulgar on posts.
This is why I don't interact with any kind of celebrity in social media. Like they are people who deserve privacy and respect.
@vvitch-mist20 Right? I'm the same way, and I feel like I'd be the same should I ever be lucky enough to see a celeb in person, even if it's someone I'm a fan of.
The player's wife's 1st story statement was SO good.
both are great. she’s very eloquent and got her point across quite well. idk how you could read what she said and still try to argue with her.
@@nikolasscheeksand the way kierra distorted her statement to make it seem like she was targeting her was so wild to me, how do you deliberately miss the point so hard
I agree. I wish she did cover up Kierra’s tag though because it did seem sketchy and like she was intentionally targeting her when she also used other people’s TikToks to prove her point without putting THEM on blast. But the point remains. It was a great statement, especially on the increasingly acceptable attitudes towards sexualizing men without their consent.
Exactly! If people don’t want to understand you, they deliberately miss the entire point
@@W4TSKYor it could of just been a mistake???? Especially if she was covering up the other names. With the positioning of it, it looks like she didn’t cover it up bc it wasn’t the comment that she was showing. Idk it seems super weird and kinda shitty to just assume that she had these malicious intentions and that it was done intentionally rather than just admit we have no idea and just give her the benefit of the doubt.
I suppose one thing I’m so curious about is why the kraken PR isn’t getting more heat. They literally invited her there and seemed to co sign her behavior until someone spoke up.
I really feel that, even with social media being a multi-decade tenured social phenomenon, for companies, social media is still the Wild West. The problem only gets worse given how quickly what’s considered acceptable can change, and how the extreme-ness of a message or attitude can escalate at the drop of a hat. Corporate structures aren’t well suited for the rapid decision making needed to properly manage that size of social media presence.
That “krack my back” thing seems sort of benignly risqué until things escalate. Pre-escalation, it’s the sort of attitude that sells shirtless fireman calendars, and a PR person is going to likely see that as a good thing… but this is the internet; the land of too far, too fast and the “all three holes” thing may well have caught them out of left field, causing the social media team to want to run away from Kiera as far and as fast as possible, and I can’t find it in myself to blame them for choosing flight over fight here.
No exactly. I find it so interesting that no one is addressing the real problem here.
@@bria8481 what is the real problem that isn’t being addressed?
That part is totally fine except they shouldn’t have consented to their employees being harassed ever? Like this wouldn’t be acceptable anywhere else? Like what we’re looking at here is an employer inviting someone to yell lurid things at you, gave them express permission to be lewd towards you and their co workers. And then didn’t have the foresight to see that maybe people wouldn’t be ok with people screaming lewd things at them? It’s not ok in any capacity to encourage people to be weird to the people who work for you.
@@dobiegrrl While I agree with you completely, my empathy for the team’s social media managers comes from 2 places: the world of sports (where a variety of heckling is common) and lack of knowledge about this particular, specialized form of social media (namely influencer culture).
Heckling… happens. Usually it’s not this inappropriate, and a little tone-deafness is not exactly surprising for a social media manager spinning as many plates as a major market sports team has going. Let’s also remember, this isn’t your average sports fan, this is a fan developed off of a newer platform who doesn’t necessarily know or conform to the social conventions ingrained into average sports fans, usually from childhood… so the media manager may well have not seen the comments or the potential backlash coming. Hell, I wonder exactly how close an eye the media manager was even keeping on the situation.
Second, let’s be honest, as fans of Swell and other internet culture commentary creators, we have a better grip on influencer culture than the average person, even those that may consume influencer content. (It is entirely possible I don’t have a good grip on influencer culture. I’m a middle aged white dude, it’s not a space I really play in, but I’m trying to keep up because of the implications on modern sociology.) I’m betting the average sports team focused media manager isn’t keeping an eye on booktok, if they’re paying much attention to TikTok at all. This is a fringe subculture (hockey romance BookTok influencers) of a subculture (BookTok generally) of a social media site known for quick hits of engagement. I bet that the media manager saw TikTok as a place for game clips and slice of life shorts to go, not a place to look for potential sexual harassment.
That thirst trap video mentioned in the coverage, do we know if that was being produced by the Kracken? If so, it tells us the team knew and was capitalizing (which was likely a mistake.) otherwise…
And let’s be honest, the “all three holes” comment would have caught virtually anyone off guard. Sports fans can get vulgar and abusive, but that’s outside of the regular realm.
I’m not saying Kracken management’s blameless, but I’m saying that giving them a little leeway for probably getting caught wildly off-guard might be in order.
This is so embarrassing! *WHY ARE YOU NOT EMBARASSED??* Not only is this booktoker sexually harassing someone, she also makes all this drama about herself. She's saying that she was personally attacked by Felicia when she wasn't even mentioned in the posts. She's saying that she apologized when all she really did was going into defense mode. She's claiming that Felicia slandered her when she herself claimed that the posts were about her. "It'S nOt HaRaSsMeNt, It'S hUmOr!!!" I bet she doesn't think that's funny if it's directed at her.
THANK YOU ITS SO EMBARRASSING MY SECOND HAND EMBARRASSMENT IS OFF THE CHARTS
@@1-800-hcbrigs I KNOW!!! 💀💀💀
@@1-800-hcbrigsI have to skip her tiktoks in this video… they are way too much… the cringe is killing me
am i missing something? why does kierra keep mentioning that the joke was a play on "break my back" as a defense? i thought "break my back" was also a sexual term??
It is!!! That what’s so confusing to me she literally is saying overtly sexual things then saying it’s just a “tik tok thing” like it’s really not that phrase has been around since before tik tok and means you want the person to have sex with you so of course his WIFE doesn’t like that
Literally so is "crack my back"
Yeah, it's so wild that she's like "they're not getting the joke" when the reason they're uncomfortable is that they do get it. Textbook sexual harassment defense.
It miiight be a double entendre referencing breaking the spines of books (a well-worn meme/argument in the booktok community), but even so it carries such a different weight here that it's no real excuse.
@@imanysol yeah i just don't get her justification it's so odd...
I personally think RPF is weird but when it's published in designated spaces (like AO3) and not sent directly to the person involved I don't think it's inherently bad. Going to a game and yelling sexual things at people WHERE THEY CAN HEAR YOU is crossing the line of common decency and sense.
Yes, agreed with this. The internet really blurs those lines for some people
The Supernatural fandom really was the *worst* for that kind of shit. Giving actors fanfics about them, asking them to sign shipping art, going after wives, like what in the hell.
Best way to describe it yeah. Putting something on AO3 means the only way people would find is if they go looking, which seems to be what most of the fandom does because i didn't even KNOW they existed til a couple of years ago and that was only by accident. That to me is more respectful than the person i saw tagging mark Ruffalo in fanfic about bruce banner lol.
@@Effexxorat least 2 actresses and one of the cast's wife got death threats :)
@@EffexxorIt got real weird when some of the cast were okay with it and others were a bit uncomfy.
i’d only heard broken up discourse to this with mainly people reacting so i’m so glad amanda put out a video of this. cause this ain’t the side of booktok i’m on.
kierra to me is just sounding like she’s trying to play victim. i don’t think her initial actions were anything malicious but the way she’s dragging this out like alex’s wife is looking for clout doesn’t sit right with me.
she didn’t “single her out” or “insult her character” she used kierra’s video as an example and i think forgetting to scrub out her name was an honest mistake.
and its like... even if it wasnt a mistake. girl is a public figure doing partnerships off of this. its not like she doxxed her.
@kaemincha especially bc kierra has the bigger platform. The wife isn't bullying a smaller creater
Ugh the fact that she uses all the hallmark "It was just a joke!" "You didn't have a problem with it BEFORE, why now??" etc. excuses to justify her behavior just sickens me tbh
I understand that you hadn't considered how your actions would have made him feel at the time, but when people tell you it's not okay your first response shouldn't be to delegitimize their concerns >:/
Kierra literally didn't understand the difference between this man's WIFE referring to him in a sexual manner and a perfect stranger sexually harassing him.
As a very small booktok creator with a little community, I’m so glad you made the distinction that we aren’t all behaving like this, and everyone in my circle is very much on the side of Alex and Felicia. Honestly Felicia’s post felt very vulnerable and kind and while Kierra was the person who started this wave of people sending sexually charged messages, her post was to more than just Kierra but to other commenters who have kept the wave going. Kierra’s response was insanely over the top and it caused her fans to harass Felicia, when Kierra could have easily made a simple statements like you stated in the video and it could have been done.
I’m glad that she didn’t say it was everyone on booktoc (I don’t really watch booktoc though). There are people who will believe that everyone who is a part of booktoc or even people who enjoy reading romance books, especially hockey romance books are all like this, when most people just read romance because they enjoy reading and like the genre and the many sub genres.
I personally don’t really use actual celebrities when I read a book, when picturing characters, I have seen celebrities or even characters from other media that reminds me of a book character I like, this is weather it’s how I picture the character or their personality. Which I think is completely fine. I’m not fine when people see an actual human being as an fictional character and sexualise them like their objects, even if they are fine with it, but especially when they say that it’s gone too far and ask people to stop.
I just wanna say Felicia is a fantastic writer. She managed to address a situation like this when she's not at all a public figure and likely hasn't had much training. She addressed a highly complicated, emotionally-charged situation with so much poise when I totally would've understood if she went on a messy twitter rant or something like so many people would've. I hope everybody is able to move on from this, I hope Kierra learns from this and I hope Felicia is able to have peace in her life again, and I *really* hope sports teams learns to not encourage rampant sexualization of their employees from fans.
When fanfic about celebrities was HUGE on Wattpad and Ao3 (not that it's not huge now, but there was definitely a boom a few years back), I was uncomfortable when the authors would beg fans to share it online with the celebrities. Like, it's fine to have this for you and your audience but there's a boundary needed for these people.
I mean it’s not really fine since I know people myself who have to deal with this being written about them and they feel SO violated. If it exists about someone that famous person will find out eventually and trust me they will almost never be okay with it
Really nice to see everyone coming out and talking about this , especially since the harrasment is largely women towards men. This doesn’t get spoken about enough when it’s men harassing women, and there seems to be even more silence towards men being harassed.
It’s reassuring to see this stuff finally be discussed so wildly as it’s so prevalent in fandoms. Normally it’s teenagers writing fanfic, but seeing adult women do it is so concerning. Can’t believe it wasn’t called out sooner
@NotVille_why do you have the pedophile pride flag as a profile picture
@@vericvoidal they're a troll I think
It's a bot, literally posting the same three or four comments over and over again and self-liking them. Not sure if there's a goal to these or if someone just makes them to generate outrage. Report them for spam and move on.
I'm a woman in her early 20s that is apart of the tiktok community that loves old actors like Cillian Murphy, Mads Mikkelsen and etc. I will never thought or say i want them in bed or i want to do anything sexual with them. There's boundaries being a fan of someone and anything related to sex is a no no. Whenever i see those actors i would just admire their personalities and faces,no more than that
it’s just so inappropriate. i remember teen girls talking about how in love they were with like, tom hiddleston and stuff and even then it was so much less weird. rpf has gotten worse over the years
As a hardcore hockey fan & a longtime Swell viewer it’s so weird to have my two worlds collide lmao. It worries me that the wider hockey circles will (and have already started to) use this embarrassing behaviour of these booktokers to further ostracise women & non-binary fans and to justify their misogyny……
Right!? There's already a misogynistic assumption that all female hockey fans are "just there for the hot guys", the use of the term "puck bunnies", etc etc.... Kind of icky how the Kraken social media team thought like the only way they could bring in new female/non-straight-male fans to the game was by endorsing thirst traps.
This exactly!
Same situation as hockey fan and swell fan. What I find absolutely baffling though is how BookTok in the space of maybe 1 year managed to cross several lines and get a bad name for themselves, when the fucking 1Direction to NHL fan pipeline has been well documented for YEARS.
How did they manage to burn bridges so much worse than the 1D imports ever did.
Watching her yell at him through the shield while he was literally right there was so deeply uncomfortable. I cant imagine how he felt.
I have never heard about this situation before. Thank you for bringing this topic up! This is all sorts of messed up.
I was honestly SHOCKED when I saw what was being said about the player(s). It made me deeply uncomfortable just to hear it; I can't imagine if it were about myself or someone I knew. It's really bizarre and makes me glad that my fyp has filtered out my booktok videos fairly well.
Its so gross that shes outraged that the kraken were "riding booktoks coattails" and being mad that the wife made jokes about her husband being booktoks obsession. The wife probably thought it would just be a typical internet trend where it would fade out after a couple of weeks and thwy could joke about it for years. With it escalating i can fully understand the wife being like "ok for real this is too much, stop please"
16:29 I love how she's like "crack my back was a joke based off break my back. It was a joke." Okay. But a joke in YOUR circle. I'm not on booktok. I'm not even on tiktok. How is someone supposed to 'get' a joke if the joke requires someone to be on a specific side of booktok? Not to mention... people are more than allowed to be taken offense to jokes. "It's just a joke, guys!" is not a good defense.
Fr. The “crack my back is a joke based off of break my back and therefore it’s fine” is like ???? Yeah??? They’re both basically saying the same thing, which is something sexual, and that’s the problem??? Wtf
As both a Hockey fan and Swell fan, I’d thought my two worlds would cross, but the reason they have is so depressing and infuriating.
Thanks Amanda for covering this.
I feel so sorry for Alex and Felicia, why can’t people learn not to be creeps online.
As far as hockey goes, this even crosses over into Canadian politics, as sexual abuse scandals in Hockey Canada have been brought to light over the past few years. (And as you may know, hockey is a big part of Canadian culture)
One thing I can note as one of the dozens of crossover fans of Swell and hockey, at 12:53 you mentioned the team's potential social media policies, but another factor that's definitely at play somewhat is the fact that hockey's infamous for a culture of "be quiet and don't draw more attention to yourself than the team" (which, to be clear, has led to some horrific things, such as being cited as one of the reasons the Chicago Blackhawks swept the alleged abuse of a player by a trainer of theirs under the rug, which ultimately led to that same trainer being able to assault a minor). That makes it all the more significant to me that Wennberg wound up releasing a statement at all, because it's SO rare that players will say anything beyond "I'm just focused on helping the team" (and, good for him - everything I've heard about him is that he's a good person off the ice)
Glad to see the hockey content, hopefully one day you'll cover the time one of the best players in the NHL made a Tumblr account before Hockey Tumblr made things so weird for him that he deleted it
I also get media-adverse vibes from Wennberg
Y'all, imagine having a client harass you at work and your boss making TikTok edits about how hot you are?! This would but the biggest HR violation in a regular workplace wtf
Not her notes excuses just being “I do it to other celebrities and they’re fine with it 🤷♀️” and “you were okay with it at first so you don’t get the change your mind” real nasty mindset in any situation
it makes it sound like you're the problem, just a gross manipulative tactic
Probably more of a minor detail in this entire story, but does it irk somebody else that Kierra said she stopped making content about him when she found out he was married? It feels too close to harassing men only stopping when the woman says she's married/has a boyfriend, respecting the partner more than the person actually being harassed? It just feels icky.
@NotVille_no wonder you say this, you have the map flag in your icon. If course you'd support a sexual harasser
Had the same thought
Not a fan of the comments Kierra was making and they went too far even before anyone said they were uncomfortable, and it was definitely A-Okay for the consent to be revoked. But there is something that feels weird of it being so sudden and so many parties (including this guys employer??) getting to just duck out of saying the same thing without the same consequence. With so many parties egging booktok on (again including this guy's employer), I can see why people assumed it was fine until his wife spoke out and why that reaction was so confused. Krakens' account also needs to take some responsibility for egging this on tbh, especially since it seems like there was discomfort far earlier than when they came out about it.
100% agree with this. People are forgetting that the teams management were also posting inappropriate stuff on their account.
Agreed. She should let it go and let the chips fall where they may due to her actions but she was heavily encouraged and egged on to do this on all sides. Social media, her salary, the official Krakens team management. They were scummy and should take responsibility.
Again a lot of her actions were over the parasocial line by miles, such as the 3 holes line and screaming sexual things at them during the game but she shouldn't have been invited. This is what she does, if she was expected to film it obviously would have been sexual. Common sense is fake idea or else anti maskers wouldnt exist.
The wife ofc has the right to revoke consent and be mad at Kierra ofc. It is a bit curious tagging her tho letting ppl find her page thereby promoting her and not the author of a book for the same reason but that's small potatoes.
There really is a lack of understanding of consent when it comes to famous people, man or woman. There is definitely a flavor of entitlement when ppl do it to straight men, but i dont think harrassment is higher or equal to how famous women are still treated.
@@alltheworldatmyfeetCorrect me if im wrong but the author of the book didn't have anything to do with this. They never sexualized or made comments like Kierra about real people. They merely wrote a hockey romance book Kierra then read and became obsessed with hockey players.
TBH I think a far more needed step from the organization is a personal apology to their players
This is my issue. Kierra is getting singled out here. Felicia’s first statement was way more targeted than people are saying it was. There is a difference between saying “hey I’m no longer comfortable with this” and what Felicia did.
I’m a bookseller at the b&n (almost) directly next to the kraken complex so i feel weirdly connected to this story. I’m not a romance/hockey fan at all but those books FLY off the shelf at our store. Even had someone asking for the book in question the other day. I don’t have any more thoughts, its just weird
i think it's important to note that fanfic writing used to be a personal thing that you'd keep to yourself or show your friends and giggle about, and even then i feel it was rarely about real people, it was more about sending yourself to hogwarts to get with Oliver Wood (just me? ok). the fact that fanfic is such a huge online thing now gives it a whole new atmosphere. I know that AO3 is 15 years old but until the last 5 years it was a shhh don't tell the normies kind of place.
Sending people fanfic made about them is horrible. publicly posting yourself screaming sexual comments about them is WILD.
people need to have more shame about this shit.
Yeah there is something really wrong with folk who write real person fic. Having had written it all the time as a kid 20 years ago now, it’s so different from what it is now. I have musician pals who have had fic written about them and it’s violated their consent so much and they have been hurt so badly. Rpf feeds peoples delusions and it often causes horrific interactions or these people lying about real life things that happened with the people of their fanfiction and try to make people believe they really have spent time with them. This is why so many famous people can the near their fans now. It’s really sad what happened to Harry Styles as well because he had to stop speaking to his best friend because of how bad the fanfiction got about the two of them (and they were kids do some of that time). It was so horrible how graphic it was and the two of them were so so traumatised by it.
This is probably the most accurate comment here. As a teenager, I used to hide my reading of non-sexual Harry Potter fanfics like I was hiding porn. As a young adult, when fanfic became more popular, I started to realize it wasn't an unusual or freakish thing to enjoy, so started engaging with it more. Now, at almost 30, when fanfics are being published and printed at the speed of light in order to rake in money hand over fist for desperate publishers, I have once again circled back to being ashamed of my fanfic-reading simply due to the shamelessness and cringe of the fandoms. Lol.🥲
@penguinsrbirds2 my high school bestie wrote fanfic of herself going to hogwarts and being smarter than hermione 😆
@@Feraloidies stuff like this is funny and fine. When it’s about yourself with fictional characters it’s not an issue. But it is when it’s about real people and yourself because it’s ignoring the consent of the real people who HATE that this is being written
This reminds me of the boiling frog analogy. The wife was comfortable at first, because she didn’t realize how much it was making her uncomfortable or was going to make her uncomfortable, but she realized the pot was boiling. She was done, and she’s voiced up.
Oh for sure. It's one thing (the proverbial pan of warm water) to know that your husband is getting DMs from people who have crushes on him, but you don't have to see it and he can ignore it. It's another thing (proverbial boiling water) for your husband to be sexually harassed at his workplace!
what kills me is that she acts as if jokes can't also be sexual harassment... the amount of times me or women I know have been catcalled or harassed and then told "it's just a joke, you need to calm down" are more than I can count. It's not funny at all to follow people around and talk about how they want to have sex with them or talk about what sexual acts you'd perform to them. It's never funny.
Right it's incredibly hypocritical. If she was a man, I can't picture a whole sports team inviting her to come harass their team. It's belittled and viewed as less than harassment bc she's a woman, even though it's exactly what she's doing. Kierra knew the whole time that she was objectifying these men, yet she plays dumb on that once she's called out.
Imagine a man recording a woman in a professional tennis game while she's bent over picking up her ball or racket, and then screaming on tik tok about how hot she is and posting the video. Imagine that man is called out by that woman's spouse and then doubles-down. Imagine a man posting videos with pictures of female athletes screaming in far too much detail what holes he wants to be in or taste. The double standard is just insane. If Kierra was a man she'd probably have gotten arrested tbh (and rightfully so imo).
men do that shit all the time my dude??? you can talk about women sexually harrassing men without pretending misogyny doesnt exist
@@jamespadilionijr8362 I'm as commie as the next guy, but it wasn't the hockey team ogling and objectifying him
@@ohboy-zi1yf please point to the part of my post where I pretended that misogyny doesn't exist
@rogerroger9952 where you said if a man did this hed be in jail but a woman did it so shes getting off scot free. men do this kind of stuff all the time with little to no consequence. at least shes getting dragged by the internet
@@ohboy-zi1yf I'll admit as someone who has never had a tiktok, twitter, snapchat, etc, I may be out of touch with that culture, but as far as I know I've never seen or heard of someone doing what this woman was doing but with the genders reversed. Misogyny is a thing, and men, especially powerful men, get away with disgusting shit, but the difference here is that she is a regular person who was getting away with publicly harassing these people for so long that she got a brand deal with the hockey team for fuck's sake. Also, it's a horrible argument to say "Yeah, well, she did something horrible but so do a lot of people." Okay? That doesn't make what she did any less shitty. I never said that misogyny isn't real, and the fact that you think I was when I was literally pointing out a double standard kind of proves my original point that the double standard is real.
Kierra, it doesn't matter if it was a joke. Jokes can still be sexual harrassment. It doesn't matter that other people you did this to were okay with it. If one person stops being ok with it, you stop. Point blank. It's disgusting that she's trying to justify this.
Felicia was way too level headed and normal about this. She’s way too mature for booktok.
This controversy got so bad that hockey sports commentators on RUclips are making videos about it and they are so discombobulated.
Two things are true here:
- RPF is simply going to keep existing (because humans and the internet)
- Coming into contact with RPF of yourself can be anything from enjoyable to deeply distressing
Even if I presume the goodest of good faith from creators and consumers of RPF, I still think the onus is on them to keep the "all in good fun" party as contained as possible, and *particularly* far away from platforms with virality algorithms.
I live for these nuanced conversations about public figures and consent when it comes to fan appreciation vs exploitation/harassment! Which is why I want to clarify that when I say your shade of blush absolutely has you glowing, it's purely meant as admiration of the craft from one makeup enthusiast to another 👌
When you say "hockey romance booktok" I feel like I'm either becoming a boomer or this is some sort of bizarre parody.
multiple times I exclaimed "how is that a specific genre?!"
No cuz I am gen z and never heard of this until the drama came on my tiktok for you page
Watching this video felt like having a stroke. Booktok?
Exactly!! I was like "huhh?" 😂
And so many people in the comments acting like it's fine and normal to be into hockey smutt like??? Does shame no longer exist?
As a bookstagrammer who does cover hockey romance, this whole scenario makes me feel icky. I think a pr firm could've helped all 3 parties involved here because everything was handled soooo bad. It's rare I see bookish drama in the news but here we are.
Opinion that SHOULD BE extremely uncontroversial here: Writing fanfic about real life people who haven't given their explicit consent is weird and predatory, full stop. It makes you, in my eyes, no better than the weird creeps doing deepfakes of female celebrities. It's weird and exploitative and the fact you're doing it just because you want online clout / whatever scraps of revenue tiktok is generating for you makes you actual scum. I'm seriously worried about the people defending this Kierra girl because it's clear TikTok has rotted away any and all ability they might have once had to interact with human beings normally.
This, especially because celebrities and youtubers have time and time again talked about how uncomfortable it has made them.
I fully agree, it's insane to me that people think they should be allowed to play with real human beings like barbie dolls they can mess with
@NotVille_shut up
I don’t know if it’s especially upsetting to me just because I had a friend do that to me in middle school but I just don’t see how people can think it’s acceptable.
I hope you are going after all historical romance too because that is ALSO fanfic. writing about people is NORMAL, there were novels about Hamilton and Maria Reynolds published WHILE HAMITON WAS ALIVE.
Just keep it on fanfic spaces and lock it.
I am always baffled because there was a very strong culture of “Do Not Share With The Actors/Creators/Writers/etc” in the fandom spaces I basically grew up in, like that is just a Boundary You Do Not Cross because that was how you kept the fandom space safe and kept positive relationships with any of the creators who want to engage with the fandom. It seems so obvious to not share fanfic about someone… with that person… unless explicitly invited to do so (and with the author or artist’s consent, because I know A Lot of writers and artists that would be/are horrified when their works are shared with the people featured in them too). So to me the whole situation just reeks of entitlement?
People don't have to be consistently uncomfortable, and demanding they follow a specific process when they ARE uncomfortable is unreasonable. Heck, we don't even know if the wife and sports-guy were ever really comfortable, or were just putting on their marketing face.
I feel too ace for this i thought "krack my back" was a pun on cracking the spines of books cos you know booktok 😂
I thought it was a play on the name of the hockey team lol
It took me at least 15mins into this video as an aroace to understand why “krack my back” was s3xual so felt
Being a hockey fan is wild
Cause I heard about this via hockey channels a week back and now all the social commentary vids from RUclipsrs like Amanda are hitting lol
This is my first time hearing about this. I'm glad Amanda covered it since I probably would've never known until a while later without her vid. I don't follow many hockey channels on here and while I am on hockey twitter I haven't checked it in about two weeks
This was so weird to watch. I went to college with kierra and knew her pretty well. We rolled with the same circles, went to the same parties, pretty sure I’d even been to her apartment a couple times. Even since we were in school she had always been trying to garner a following on social media. It’s so strange seeing an old college buddy getting into social media drama
As someone who has been semi-into rpf fandoms since livejournal days, I think the main thing for me and many others was DO NOT make the people involved aware of it. Just keep it to your corner of the internet and don't involve them in it. Seeing people directly tagging people and asking people in public spaces about it makes me so uncomfortable, just leave them alone!
This!!!
the was not an rpf btw, the hockey player was just a fan cast
@@liveluvcryotherapy oh! I know, just saying that rpf is kinda related to this kindof thing (real life people and fandoms colliding) and they shouldn't be dragged into either
@@liveluvcryotherapyit literally doesn't matter and you commenting that serves as nothing more than as a distraction from the actually serious issue being discussed.
This is like a fan version of "men too" in any and all discussions about women being SA; it seems you're only doing this because you're unwilling to admit that rpf is problematic too.
As a life long woman hockey fan seeing the new interest in hockey from people made me so excited at first. I LOVE hockey and was excited to talk to more people about hockey. But as things went on I became more and more horrified.
Felicia and Alex handled all of this so gracefully with such sensible statements, completely aware of the context and their boundaries. I'm glad they seem to be on the same page about this and have each other to lean on!
You can always tell when Amanda adds a tiktok instead of me because she doesn't know how to enlarge and blur the background.
--Will
I can’t express just how much of a comfort creator you are to me. This summer has meant a ton of change and travel and transition for me (all of it is good, actually so good that it’s overwhelming hahaha).
No matter whether I’m trying to get over jet lag or driving for forty minutes to go to the social security office or unpacking tons of stuff (I got married, went across the world with my husband for our honeymoon, and then moved to another state when we got back, and started a new job, all within like 3 weeks aaahhh!!!!), I will put on your newest upload no matter what I’m doing or where I am. Your constant uploads this summer has actually been one of the few areas of consistency and you talking about these “trivial” and silly and fun things has added much needed normalcy in my life!! Love you!!!
Never used tiktok but do love hockey romances. So sad that a few adult readers are sexualizing real people because they can't separate fiction from reality like the rest of romance readers have been telling the world we're able to do since the beginning of time
There are people who _probably_ should be steered away from this kind of stuff because they have a history of not being able to separate fantasy from reality (for any number of reasons). But I suspect there are other people who know how to separate fiction from reality, but only do it when it suits them to do it.
this situation feels so 2013-2016
As a hockey fan and a hockey romance fan, WOW! TikTok has really lost the plot, you can enjoy things without taking it so far that you’re harassing players and their families.
i've always found RPFs weird and never really fucked with them but i think a lot of people are forgetting that fanfiction/fancasts/etc are strictly fan-only spaces, its one thing to find someone attractive and write fanfiction or whatever, it's another to make it THEIR problem by forcing them to see it (on their feeds, or in this case doing it at this poor man's workplace). like jesus christ i remember a while back at a drag con (i think) panel with trixie mattel and katya some fan came up and word for word read out loud an extremely smutty fanfiction about them and like ???
side note: you might not want booktok to come at you but i dont mind it and i just wanna say: i have NEVER read a booktok recommendation and thought it was even average, let alone good. But! book-ish content on youtube does have a lot of good creators.
This hits close to home in that my husband deals with harassment from women in his profession more than he should (which is he shouldn't.... at all.). The audacity of some people is just mind blowing and it's irritating to no end that were the roles reversed, someone would have lost a job already. But because it's a woman harassing a man, no one is held accountable. When I asked why doesn't he go to HR or someone about it, he's said it would be a "he said, she said" situation and nothing would come of it. It's just really sad that men don't get the same levels of protection as women do when s* harassment is involved.
people who are super into RPF never want to hear it but when stuff like this happens, how can they still deny that RPF is not good and can hurt people because they're REAL PEOPLE
What is RPF? i thought maybe it was role playing or something now not so sure
@@Princes_Luna people sometimes do role-playing as whoever they're fixated on (like i literally have a friend of a friend deep into bts rpf) but rpf just means "real person fiction" and that means someone consumes or creates fan content (fan fic, fan art, edits) of famous people the way you would for fictional characters. it's relatively harmless, until something like this or just blurring the lines between what's real and what isn't about the person/people someone is obsessed with makes it all very weird
It’s cause their brain can’t truely understand the “real” person part of RPF. To them real just means “when they talk its not written dialogue” it seems. It’s so easy for a lot of people to just…not see other humans as humans like them specially if you don’t see them everyday cause I’ve seen that happen with people who arnt even celebrity’s and social media just makes it worse
respectfully amanda saying “krakens” plural is so funny
I hurt a little bit each time she said it🥲 sorta like when people say "Pike's" Place market
“Unofficial team of hockey romance booktok” is such a wild idea
As someone who initially saw Kierra's point but then heard the whole statement from Felicia and realized that Kierra's reaction was completely wrong, I appreciate videos like this existing! The Kracken are very liable here for making a crappy situation even worse by not owning up to their huge contribution to this situation.
Kierra's argument of "everyone else did it too, why single me out" was just really childish to me... it's like textbook immaturity. And just because something has been okay up to this point doesn't mean things can never change. 😬
Attacking Felicia and making insinuations about their marriage is just icky and gross and should tell you everything you need to know about people like this.
Just because it is a joke that doesn’t mean that is is not sexual harassment…
Sigh. I had thought that the majority of us had decided that it wasn't cool to write uhh, spicy (or romantic tbh) kind of fiction about real people. Or sexualize them publicly.
Tbh i thought that was the case.
At least before kpop, I thought we left it at Justin Bieber and 1 Direction
I was hoping you’d talk about this!
Wennberg used to play for my favorite team here in Stockholm as a jr and in my mind he was still a teenager, so suddenly seeing him and his family in this context was so surreal. I think his wife and him both handled this very respectfully.
Some people won't let their being a woman stop them from being an off-putting sex weirdo, and that's true equality right there.
Yay...we made it???
That's sad.
I feel like you're right on all points. And I'm so glad you ended it with reiterating that consent can be revoked at any time.
I just feel sometimes people forget that celebrities are people too
I love this because it boils down to “how come she can have sex with him but I can’t???” It might be because she’s his wife
I appreciate how you handled this topic and didn’t lump all of booktok together. I’m a book reviewer and had never heard of the woman involved until this week, so it is very true that a good portion of us have no involvement in this type of behavior whatsoever. Thank you for covering this with your usual insight and grace. ❤
i'm a smaller booktokker (mostly sff + sapphic content) and a longtime fan! this video was great! you covered everything and your commentary on fandom/consent was fantastic. especially love how you made distinctions, i promise we're not all like this!
What is sff? I tried googling it but too many things came up
@@shortinsomniac76 science fiction and fantasy!! it's just an abbreviation
Thank you for talking about this! While I had no idea that this happened, it’s such an important thing to talk about. I loved how you stated that when consent for things like this is revoked, the only thing you can say is sorry and that I won’t cross that line again. As someone whose been in multi-a-fandom, I always try my best to respect the creator’s wishes. I may not been that understanding of what the boundaries meant when I was a teen, but I’m at the point where I realize that they are too human and have things that they are uncomfortable with and I must respect that.
Booktoker here (of the non hockey romance variety), I personally love videos like the types on your channel and know many others part of the community who do too; thank you for making a video on this topic and making the distinction b/w the specific sub-community of booktok and the rest of booktok (which many other people have failed to do) because I know that many people who are very active in the book space, like myself, had no idea what was going on, or who this "queen of booktok" was before this drama. I personally had no idea this was going on until I saw a tweet, not even something on tiktok, with someone reacting to the wife's instagram stories with her response. It's great seeing people that I follow for other reasons discuss this and use it to hold important conversations on these topics. Keep up the awesome videos
Whats worse now is that the booktokers have now moved on to biker tiktok and leaving really crazy comments. One of them stalked a biker in a bookstore and uwued at him. Its getting out of hand and embarrassing.
I like how kierra's defense is, "they're just jokes." Like that isn't the excuse every male harasser has used.
The fact that this made it outside of the booktok sphere is really mind-boggling to me. I would say 98% of TikTok disagrees with what happened and it sucks that it’s being lumped together.
It’s a boundary. If you wouldn’t like people doing it to you, don’t do it to other people, especially when they’ve said it’s inappropriate and uncomfortable to them.
Bruh this is literally why tiktok being 2013 tumblr is a problem. Tiktok is way too public. While I’m super not a fan of real people fanfics and the like, at least on tumblr it stays in the shadowlands. People are actively seeking out fandom if they go on tumblr and it doesn’t get thrown in their face (for the most part).
i’m 26, i really only watch youtube and have fallen into creators. i prefer to listen to real people’s opinions and thoughts. i don’t use any other social media and wow. this was such a trip to listen to and hear play out. even with literally no knowledge on what any of this meant prior. Gosh. Amanda can really cook up the perfect execution to tell a situation.
Also I think something that needs to be talked about is how social media affects how people act and say things they normally wouldn’t. Even Kierra mentioned that she felt so embarrassed when she was at the game and yelling at the glass and then found out that the players could hear her - which is crazy because she literally is posting much worse for anyone to see online. 29:58
I went to high school with Felicia, she is a kind person that doesn’t deserve any hate for simply setting boundaries ❤
There are nice respectful boundaries that exist in any type of fandom activity, including RPF. Some people love bulldosing over those lines. You can't give into all of your worst impulses all the time. Keep some of those thoughts inside.
I’m a massive hockey fan and hadn’t heard about this yet. Time to get the popcorn. Heads up, the smallest of notes, it’s singular Kraken rather than plural Krakens. Hope the dude bros don’t blast you for something so trivial but 💁
I cringed a little every time she said krakens but its ok the discussion of revoking consent is a lot more imporant than the misrponunciation
Moral of the story: take an extended break from social media now and then and go outside.
I’ve never been more happy to not be interested in TikTok, Instagram and fan fiction romance novels in my entire life.
The way Kierra completely misrepresented the wife’s points and feelings and took it all as a direct attack rather than trying to understand her feelings at all was so disgusting to me. And the way she went on the defensive and attacked the wife was even worse. I truly think she’s a gross human being.
I am on romance booktok and hockey booktok. I love the books, the authors and enjoy the hockey edits I discovered. However when consent is revoked then it is done, and RPF is awkward at best and goes icky pretty quickly. I guess one thing I have not loved from everyone else is the immediate attack from mainstream media attacking spicy readers and authors. Your coverage was the most even handed I’ve seen.
A home game for The Krakens was my first hockey match. I had no idea that booktok was doing this. Like, I would have leaned into too-men don’t always realize where the “joke” vs. harassment line is-but people are wild and take things way too far. Yikes. People are perfectly within their rights to be like “hey, I thought I was okay with this, but it turns out I’m not.”
@NotVille_ I…care? They’re real people.
@NotVille_you clearly care more than other people here considering you replied to so many comments, also the flag on you profile looks like cartman
@NotVille_ youre replying to everyone, saying kierra is in the right. no she isnt. shes weird and made sexual jokes toward a man who didnt ask for it. his wife spoke up and she decided his wife is the villain
@NotVille_ not at ALL. the player being harassed even spoke about it and did not want those things said about him or his wife.
@@rae6982 don’t bother, they’re clearly trolling
Yes! Thank you for adding preamble/context. We are not all terminally online but we love hearing about these things in a distilled way thanks to you.
People don't give intros enough credit. Her's is my favorite intro. It's short simple, and silly. Some people make their intro so long and elaborate but it feels like it takes away from the video. Hers is like 5 seconds at most and silly. Love it
Agreed. It's my favorite too.
I like intros and hate it when people just start talking especially when they're a big enough creator to start asking for money. But I also hate it when an intro is so long that I can press the skip button and it will still be going. It like ok this is not a TV show; especially when the video isn't 30+ min long cause then the intro is 1/3 of the video. Some creators trying to make the videos feel like a TV show without the quality and length of a TV show.
Wearing a flannel to talk about Seattle is perfect. Great video, just wanted to say I appreciate the commitment to theme as always!!!