The BASIC programming language and how it ended up on the Sega Saturn | MVG
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- In 1998, Bits Laboratory released Game BASIC for the Sega Saturn. An easy way for programmers to write games on the Saturn without an expensive development kit. In this episode we take a look at what BASIC is, its importance in game development and theorize why it was made available for the Saturn
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#SegaSaturn #BASIC #Programming
Syntax errors were made
I learned to program on the old school TI-8x calculators in the mid 2000s. As janky as BASIC seems to me today, its role in introducing tons of people to programming is undeniable. Seriously transformational.
You say old school but they still use them in high schools... they have color screens now but I believe they still run off the same Z80 processor as they did 20 years ago, and they definitely still have BASIC
Same! TIBASIC and the game-making shell DarkBASIC were fun.
@r4rev2 He's talking about the calculators. The Texas Instruments programmable graphing calculators are coded in a very special kind of BASIC called TIBASIC. It's maths oriented, you don't need to learn it to get through school but it helps immensely. There aren't any calculators with Python.
Edit: I've been corrected, there is at least one calculator that runs python.
@@_winter7745 Regarding the "no calculators with Python"... well, actually... www.numworks.com/
It's not exactly cheap (99$), but then, not _that_ much more than the TI-8X's... And - hey, it's capable of running (micro)Python 😉... which should be enough, capabilitywise, for just about anything you can halfway sensibly run on a device like that...
@@CoPoint Thanks! I love this! Unfortunately I doubt they'll switch in high schools but these seem a treat for the college crowd and beyond.
The PS2 had Yabasic in the Pal regions.
It was Sony's attempt to get a tax break in the PS2 by claiming it was a computer. The plan didn't work.
But it did have me coding at 7 years old.
Learning to code young is the best time to do it. I couldn't imagine actually having to learn the bottom basics at uni. I have trouble remembering my pin code.
@James wtf yabast*rd
Yeah, apparently Sony had no idea that the PS2 can have Linux on it, and they allowed it.
Whoops
@@ChaseMC215 I'm pretty sure that they knew, seeing as Sony was the one that released a Linux distro for the ps2.
@@cronchcrunch afterwards. first they tried to ban linux. ppl got upset. then they allowed it , but only their distro. as allways, everything game related sucks in the techworld
Does anyone remember the demo disc that came with the PS2 in the UK with "Yabasic" on it? I loved that!
I remember it, but never used it. Could you save your code onto memory card (or back it up some other way)?
That just sounds like the setup for a joke akin to ligma.
"Yabasic bitch"
Fun Fact: It came with the PS2 because Sony wanted to pass it off as a computer to the UK Government and avoid tax!
@@sebastian19745 archive.org/details/ps2demodiscpbpx95205 oh cool! I think I've found it! Gotta try this!
My first "computer" was a zx spectrum as a hand me down. I never understood how basic worked but one of my first gaming Achievements was typing out hangman from the manual and actually made it play
@Red Dogg - Rebel4Truth were talking 30 yrs ago...
@Red Dogg - Rebel4Truth it was 89 for me and I was 9.
Ti99a and I was 4 years old.
what is the code?
My first computer here in the UK was an Acorn Electron my dad brought home from work for me, I was 5. This would have been 1989/1990. I had stacks of manuals and cassettes with it and would acquire more BASIC programming books from bargain bins and libraries. Some of my happiest memories are copying out lines and lines of code from an 'Input' book after choosing something to create, then when getting restless and hazy eyed asking my mother to help read out the code whilst I typed it in. Saving the whole thing to cassette tape, running the code and finding the inevitable typos and mistakes (some of which were from the books themselves, which meant learning how to recognise errors myself) then running the code and seeing what we'd spent ages typing come to life.
It was a place in history for me where time didn't matter, I could just lose myself in a computer and games and my imagination. I miss those times like crazy.
Thanks so much for this vid - I'm having an insanely nostalgic time in lockdown uncovering so much from my childhood (digitalising VHS tapes, going through boxes, you name it) and just yesterday I was in the attic and found my Acorn Electron and its cassette deck.
Nods to anyone who had similar memories in childhood!
It's been a busy day, maybe I should go to sleep.
*sees MVG*
Sleep can wait.
When I heard the intro music of h0ffman
*Demoscene intensifies*
It's amazing what can be crammed into 64kb
@@TatsuZZmage Watch "Memories" by Desire. Released lately. It's a 256 BYTES intro. Just watch it and be amazed.
He recently released 'Way Too Rude' at Revision 2020.
Another 64k Amiga demo very much in the vein of Everyway. Well worth a watch, the man's a legend.
@@sepehrasadi5997 I was mostly thinking of the first time I saw .the.product
i had *no* idea something like this was out for the Saturn. I knew about Net Yaroze and the blue playstations, but not this.
Same here, I had no idea this existed and I'm quite up to speed with all things Sega.
Same here
Blue playstation?
There were a lot of interesting things that only surfaced in Japan for the Saturn.
Literal Saturn homebrew dev and every time I saw GAME Basic demos I had no idea it was _this_
There's a whole host of shooters written for Game Basic that can be enjoyed if you have a Pseudo Saturn Kai cart. Some of them are quite good!
So many obscure but extremely cool things in this channel, amazing.
I don't own any old school computer nor do i desire to but i enjoy these for some reason!
These videos are beautiful to watch..
I don't even game and I find these videos fascinating.
the beautiful process of making complex things
Me too. (I was born too late to even have a computer like that. 2006, in fact.)
I was a Net Yaroze owner at the time. We were given access to the official Sony developer forum on the internet where mainstream developers also frequented. We were able to submit our games to that forum and if Sony liked a game they would release it on the cover CD of the Playstation magazine for others without the Net Yaroze to play. That was our way of getting our games published if they were good enough. Many Net Yaroze owners went on to produce games for the upcoming PSP and PS2 machines. Not me though, for me it was only a bedroom hobby, I was already employed as a programmer in another sector of programming :)
Whats the difference between coding, developing and programming? Or all they more or less the same? Thank you and wow thats cool wish i would have gotten into computer tech back when i was kid who knows what that would have led to...
Cool story 🙄
I was so into basic those years. It would've been so cool to be able to get one of those... Damn SEGA... I love-hate you!
if that program was released outside of japan theyd have more sales of it and theyd have more people making games for it too
Thing are moving forward til the answer. Doom port for the Saturn, biggest question of all.
Nostalgia pur.
I'm 15 years old and I began programming when I was 9 yrs old. I hacked my wii (aka. installed homebrew into the wii) and was interested in making games or applications generally.
So I've used DOSBox (a DOS emulator) and searched for IDEs and possible languages - and Ive found one: QBasic. I can remember the times where I sat on the couch, my mouse and keyboard plugged into the wii, and read through the manuals integrated in the IDE. I quickly learned all the fundamentals of QBasic and bought a book about QBasic programming - I knew back then that QBasic was relatively slow, not to mention the graphical instructions (LINE, CIRCLE, etc.) or reading the keyboard inputs (when I made my first game I had to access a memory address so that i could use LShift and RShift, the only reliable inputs without making too hard work). In the first two years, Ive programmed a game where you drive a car on a road without colliding with the cars driving the opposite direction, then a 3D engine which worked quite well (ive calculated the positions intuitively with "pseudo-formula") and a maze game. I stopped then because I felt that the limits were too big and focused on Java, C++ and PHP afterwards.
These were wonderful times programming in QBasic and a great introduction into programming that I would recommend everyone.
(Btw sry for my bad english)
So why didn't you get a career programming
@@Keepskatin Wow, I wasn't expecting an answer to this forever forgotten comment at all 😅, but as of right now I am actually pursuing a career as a software developer!
nowadays it's Nintendo's turn with Smile Basic on 3DS and Switch, and FUZE4 also on Switch.
Whats better Fuze4 or smile basic ?
I’ll look into these, thanks for the share.
As a "bedroom programmer" of the 80s, here are a few notes:
- The original BASIC developed by Kemeny / Kurtz had no line numbers. These were lately added probably as an easy way to refer to locations for GOTO / GOSUB and to facilitate for the lack of screen editors of the early home computers. The original developers later said that line numbers actually "destroyed" the language.
- It is true that most of the early home computer BASICs had no concept of a while loop. All of them however had a FOR-NEXT loop, so looping was not an a foreign idea to bedroom programmers. We would implement while loops using if - then - goto statements. Later revisions of BASIC introduced multiline subs / functions (with local variables) and while loop (For example Amstrad CPC had a "while - wend" loop)
- Home BASICs were largely incompatible as you said, unless you focused on a very minimal set of commands (and even there, there were differences). They would follow one of two schools: either give the user a very basic set of commands and force him to use direct register /memory address (peek, poke) to access hardware for graphics / sound (e.g. Commodore 64) or enrich the language with commands that would speak to the hardware and let the user easily program advanced graphics and sound. More advanced users would inevitably switch to assembly in the end.
- PS2 actually had version of BASIC shipped on the demo disc. It was YABASIC (Yet-Another-BASIC) and there were some sample programs with it (I recall an Amiga-like bouncing ball). I connected a USB keybaord and typed few lines in it, it was of course blazing fast compared to any home computer because of the hardware.
Great post thank you
I'm happy to believe that the original Dartmouth BASIC had no line numbers, if you can prove it. Please provide a reference to document this because I've never heard anyone make such a claim. If you're referring to True BASIC which came much later, this isn't the same thing at all.
The original Dartmouth Basic manual (October 1964) features line numbers: www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dartmouth/BASIC_Oct64.pdf
marinedalek Thank you.
They absolutely needed line numbers, because the only way to edit code was through a teletype (paper) terminal.
yeah, it was a missed opportunity. really sad, as i had a sega saturn back in the day.
The Saturn is looking like one large missed opportunity.
This tradition continues on the 3DS and Switch with SmileBasic/PetitCom. When i still had my 3DS, I frequently was making games or little demos with it than actually playing any games.
Wow never knew this. Will have to investigate this. I used Basic a lot on the BBC computers at school in the 80s. thx! :-)
@@hazy33 If you're 'HARDCORE' there's a version of SmileBasic for Raspberri Pi called "Pi Starter" that's only available from one store in Japan and includes a custom keyboard that has the 'extended graphical characters' on it like the C64 and Speccy keyboards and such. It's fairly cheap too. A total package, including the Pi and Keyboard is about 100$ and it comes on an SD card that boots straight into BASIC. Also, for a short time (no longer available), there was a version of RiscOS that literally booted up into classic BBC BASIC, also for Pi. I've been hunting down anyone that has it still, but so far no luck. That said, RiscOS has BBC BASIC built into the OS for Pi, so if that's a BASIC you enjoy, I suggest it. RiscOS is free and a Pi that runs it is like 30 bucks. :) And cool thing, as usual, it runs all the old BBC BASIC code natively and looks like nature intended it. Good luck and have fun!
@@heavysystemsinc. Ooo do you have a link to the keyboard pack one?
@@hazy33 Yes, but keep in mind, you must have a friend in japan that can order it and send it. I fortunately have a friend (haven't gotten to order it just yet!) but I did contact them directly and they do not do international shipping. So hopefuly, in the internet age, you have some connections that can help out!
shop.tsukumo.co.jp/features/pistarter
And here's one of the demos for it:
ruclips.net/video/fJAaK6qEjXk/видео.html
edit: And the keyboard specific link on their storefront. shop.tsukumo.co.jp/goods/4943508090240/
:)
@@heavysystemsinc. thx! in my haste i think my enthusiasm ran away with me. I think i'd be better sticking to a pc based basic or a bbc emulator :-)
I would definitely have buy a saturn if this stuff had been released in europe
Dark Basic is where I learned about programming for the first time, it was a language+IDE for windows in the early 2000s
Loved Dark BASIC! I learned BASIC on a Commodore 64 originally in the early 90's.. and then moved onto whatever version of BASIC was on my family's Black & Green only DOS machine..Then finally to Dark Basic once we got a better computer in the late 90's haha
Basic/QBasic with Direc-X++ other stuff= DarkBasic and laiter DarkBasic Pro :D
for me, it's VB6 and Planet-source-code.com, it was like a github back in the day
@@berthold64 VB6 was really funn Make fors Buttons etc, i catually kind of like VB6 more than the modern visual studio thingy hehe :D
dark BASIC sounds like a programming language for horror games
What a legend. Please make more Saturn/Sega videos!
6:47 I played this game on keyboard NES game console
OK, enough with this myth: BASIC is not an inherently interpreted language. I had always been compiled. The only reason interpreted variants ever existed was because of the anemic home/micro computers of the time; the original language from Dartmouth college was a compiler, not an interpreter. They could have easily gone with a compiled BASIC, or even a mixed one (interpreted to allow quick previewing, compiled for production, or a quick, cumulative recompile when adding a new line to be compiled while seeming interpreted to retain the quick preview).
Languages are not interpreted or compiled. That is an implementation detail of running the program.
@@gyroninjamodder I think you need to explain that one a bit better. Languages are pretty inseparable from their runtimes in general use cases.
@@kneesnap1041 I can't speak for gyroninja, but it's true that it is an implementation detail. Some languages that many think of as interpreted are almost always compiled nowadays.
For example, there are very few serious Lisp implementations that are interpreters. The most popular one (SBCL) doesn't even have an interpreter at all and just compiles at runtime when you tell it to interpret.
Lisp used to be thought of as a "slow and interpreted language", but can now obtain speeds that sometimes rivals C.
@@gyroninjamodder Not sure if you're trolling, but these are the two fundamental methods of converting a high-level lsnguage to machine code. It's either done on-the-fly, each time the same line of code is executed (interpreted), or the entire program is compiled into machine code by the developer, and then distributed in machine code form.
@@Blitterbug I think they meant "Languages are not [inherently either] interpreted or compiled. [Whether they use an interpreter or compiler] is an implementation detail."
Not all BASICs used line numbers. Later versions of QBasic also allowed you to compile basic code projects in to binary files.
nibbles.bas Now that takes me back a few years.
Yes, nibbles.bas and gorillas.bas, spent so many hours playing them
The most interesting BASIC dialect I ever came across was called “GRASS”, or a port of it to Z-80-based machines called “ZGRASS”. It had graphics, multithreading, functions/subroutines as first class objects (actually the function/subroutine bodies were held in strings that could be evaluated/executed) and no line numbers. And this was in the 1970s!
Bitsavers has copies of some docs here bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/datamax/ and here bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/nuttingAssoc/zGrass/ .
Game Basic is interesting, but modern day Saturn homebrewers are much more comfortable in C. If you want to play with Saturn coding, I recommend starting in Jo Engine.
Awwwww Basic. How I started programming at the age of 8 on an old Sinclair Spectrum. Memories.
This was a very well made video. I enjoyed watching this from start to finish. It’s a real crying shame that this was never released outside of Japan. I brought a Sega Saturn soon after it was launched here in the U.K. and at that time I was leaning how to use a programming language on a PDA device. If I had this now, I’d probably be working with a major studio now as being able to control a Saturns hardware using only BASIC would have fuelled my curiosity even more. But I can understand why it was never released in Europe or America ☹️
I wish they discover basic languages prior to its launch date. No doubt this language would have saved the system.
I never knew this about the Sega Saturn. Pretty cool to learn, Thank you for making this.
I didn't know that the sega saturn had basic
Love your videos. Please keep them coming
This was a great primer on the basics of coding. I learned a lot that makes sense to me as a layperson about the reasons why certain code is used instead of others, and when. I'd like a series more like this, about the history of coding and choice of code.
I wish that more console manufacturers would go back to installing a programming language like BASIC or C onto their consoles, so that I could make games directly on the machine. That would be cool!
They would never give up control.
Ummm . . . U already program those consoles in c/c++ though? C is not something u install . . . Its a language that compiles into the hardware machine code
Just when you think you know everything about the Saturn.
If you want a more modern BASIC on a system, there are some things you can buy on the 3DS eShop.
And Switch, too! Fuze4 has been out for awhile, and the English language version of SmileBASIC4 is scheduled to release tomorrow!
It's actually quit sad how that today computer companies are no longer willing to let customers have access to manuals on how to program a computer or willing to share info on how the operating system works and they try and hoard that information and keep people from being able to work on or repair computers or technology themselves, they've become greedy by trying to force people to pay them to fix their computers rather then learning how to do it themselves. There less open to people just learning at home then how they use to be. Use to EVERY electronic came either cane with a wiring and circuit board diagram or had one printed on the inside of the case. Nowdays you can't BUY one of these diagrams for new technology regardless of how much money your willing to pay for it. Infact many companies are attempting to SUE people that figure out how to work on computers and phones and are even trying to legally block and take away the consumers RIGHT TO REPAIR by claiming it's "dangerous" and that things can "explode". It's pathetic and sad because we no longer have the bedroom programmers and people making HUGE strides in technology and coding like we use to.
It's a completely different mentality. Back then a computer was seen as a machine which you own, and since own the machine, programming it is part of its featureset. Selling a computer without a manual on how to program it, was like buying a car without instructions how to maintain it.... oh wait.
Nowadays instead, products are merely seen as "platforms" to sell more stuff for down the line. Just like buying a printer, and then paying a fortune for print-cartridges. The buyer is no longer the "owner" of a product, but a serf stupid enough to pay for his own enslavement.
@@lyxar777 I couldn't have put it better myself. The only we have to combat this is for people to start seeking out 3rd party repair places and doing whatever they have to do in order to repair their own stuff, even if that mean pirating the information or getting parts from sketchy sites direct from china. People have to show these companies that we will do whatever we have to in order to keep maintain control over our PROPERTY. Apple is THE WORST offender of this, they are willing to LIE TO YOUR FACE in order to keep you from being able to fix your own stuff. Apple has been PROVEN beyond a shadow a doubt that they are telling bold face LIES to customers about not being able to recover data on iphones and tablets, about the cost of repairing a laptop and just straight up making shit up about whats wrong with it, telling an undercover reporter that a $5 fix would cost him over $1,000 to fix "Water Damage" that didn't exist. Too actually attempting to sue a man that was purchasing APPLE screens FROM APPLE direct from china. Apple CLAIMED that by using Apple screens for Apple phones, that by replacing the screen he was making "counterfeit phones".....WTF? REALLY APPLE? Apple has even been caught bribing customs into seizing iphone batteries being bought from china to stop people from getting hold of them and even bribing the companies that make the parts for their devices in order to stop others from being able to buy them. Its actually disgusting the lengths that Apple is willing to go in order to prevent you from getting hold of ANY part for an Apple phone or computer regardless of how much money your willing to pay for it. Go and watch Luis Rossmann's youtube channel if you ant to learn more about this kind of stuff. He has been repairing Apple products for years now and is even going to bat to fight for the Right to Repair Bill. Things have gotten so bad that companies are lieing straight to the face of senators and congressmen, telling them that there are parts of a device that can explode or be damaged that DON'T EVEN EXIST, actually making stuff up because the people in the senate or congress don't understand or know about these things. People need to be better educated on how these types of thing work. Sorry for the lengthy response, i kind of feel strongly about this type of thing being a "Techie" myself.
Yes they are. Look at Linux and the Raspberry π.
It isn't hardware, but give Haiku (the OS) a try.
They are trying again with Dreams, this time scripting is on the road map but with optimization in mind there’s a shit ton of concepts you can try with a single ps4 and a 40$ game
This would have become an absolute overnight success for Saturn if it was released to the rest of the world. Pity it never happened. The 3D graphics on the Playstation was complex and cumbersome to code for, if you had something like this fast basic for the consoles, or the consoles were released as a new "commodore 64" sort of, it would have KILLED the marked!
You said you have access to all hardware without limitation, is it possible to use additional 4MB RAM cartridge ? Or it's limited strictly to 1MB of RAM?
CKilmonie Yes. It is possible.
@@plawson8577 so it is much better and interesting platform for homebrew enthusiasts than NET Yaroze. Do you have to call additional memory trough separate procedure or you can use it as you would do with internal RAM? Any other limitations? Like max executable or resource file limits? If the real and only limitation is that you have to run your program trough Saturn basic software, then there is no real limits. Do you checked additional RAM access by yourself?
CKilmonie PS1 was built WITHOUT Expandable RAM. Everyone knows that. While it was much more flexible with software tools than Saturn and N64, it was inferior hardware overall and did an abysmal job at proper 3D, especially since it lacked Texture Filtering and had No Map Recalculation or Perspective Correction.
At least Saturn and N64 had Hardware tools and more versatile architecture. Give me both any day.
@@plawson8577 I know PS1 didn't have additional RAM, I was writing about SATURN. BTW PSX with parallel port was able to address additional memory because parallel was accessible from any console component, so additional memory theorhithycaly can be expanded but but in price of speed. The most annoying thing on Yaroze is you don't have access to CD drive so you have to put all resources into your EXE which must fit into(if I remember correctly) 1MB of RAM. Saturn seems to be better because even if you can't attach additional resources, I mean when you have to place everything in BASIC executable which is transferred trough serial, then you have 4x more space. I wonder is it possible to send data in parts, or you have to send everything instantly before execution. IF it's possible to send code just in time of execution then you have virtually unlimited space for music, graphics, scripts etc, and you only have to watch to never excced available RAM capacity.
CKilmonie PSX only had 1 MB VRAM and 1 MB RAM. Yaroze and Matte SDKs had an option for an additional 1 MB RAM for features like Simultaneous Rendering, Heavy Bilinear Distortion and JPEG screen filtering. PSX was bottlenecked at 2 MBs as the Hardware itself was incapable of carrying more than 1 MB. Yarozes and Mattes had an extra 1 MB as “Special Sauce”.Many programmers simply cheated by Splitting the 1 MB through “Chache Division” which meant that 512KBs of RAM was the average for most PS1 games. The Chache Buffer that GTE used was also limited to just 48KBs. Regarding Saturn. Majority of its games used 2 MBs of RAM. You could access the Set Memory Bank through the SH-2 Aurora and get the Average 1.5 MB VRAM, but lazy programmers would simply ignore the Dual Thread, Dual Core Pipeline of SH-2 and overlooked the DSP, thus intentionally Bottlenecking the Saturn hardware by accessing less available RAM, Lowering its Chache and by resorting to 1 Core instead of both. Sophia had plenty of Options like “Perspective Correction” and “Sum Recaculation” and allowed up to 4 MBs of Extra RAM and VRAM, but alas, too many lazy Western programmers took too many shortcuts.
Regarding the TOC, another benefit that Saturn had over PS1, is that Saturn had a Hidden Piggybacked CPU inside its CD Drives called SH-1 Milkyway that handled all of its Driver and Software ROM TOC duties. You wrote Programs and Files on SH-2 Aurora, but you burn Discs and Final Write ROMs using SH-1. There was a special tool called Landscape that only SEGA offered to Licensees that helped burn Saturn Discs.
Man, I thought I was pretty knowledgeable about Sega Saturn history, but I'd never heard of this before... Shows what I know! Great video!
Chris Lord Saturn was technically superior to PS1.
@@plawson8577 heh, well... That's a tough argument. Regardless, it's my preferred console and I don't think we ever got to see its full potential exploited.
Hey man just wanna say your videos inspire me to keep studying computer science. I am almost done compelting my first yead of college but with math getting harder and harder it just gets more intimidating. But when I watch your videos every Monday it reminds me why I got into programming and have always loved it. Thank you
I know that some people might hate me for this, but I have to say it.
*BASIC is not a good language.* It never has been. It has almost no means of abstraction making it very difficult to write good code in it.
That's not to say it wasn't useful, it certainly was, but even at the time there were better languages.
If computer manufacturers weren't so in love with those old 8-bit CPUs they could've had something like the MIT SCHEME-79 chip or something similar, giving them a real programming language that doesn't break down when scaling up. Then again, they might have been too expensive for home computers...
Damn, BASIC for Saturn pretty much lets you play with the system's capabilities with ease while Jon Burton of Traveller's Tales had to manually code them with BASIC and C.
It’s fascinating that the Saturn runs BASIC so well given that most programmers had to write in assembly to get the best performance. I wish Sega had provided better developer resources early on so that we could have see the full potential of the hardware.
Most of the cancelled games for the Saturn would been released if they thought about basic.
The flipside of speed is that people assume that C programs are always much faster than BASIC. Not so. If you do not write your C program properly it can be surprisingly slow. C makes you do everything, and you have to do so correctly. BASIC does a lot for you, which is nice. Sometimes that means that it does everything for you... slowly. ;)
looks like every console generation had some form of homebrew
sega had on sega mark 1
they didnt had anything on the megadrive (genesis) generation.
we had net yarouze on ps1 and basic for saturn.
ps2 had some kind of homebrew support if i remember correctly but it also had the linux kit, wich could be used to run/make some games.
ps3 also had linux support.
on the microsoft side, we had some aproaches like xna and , their indie program and afaik its quite easy to acquire an licence to become an indie developer on it.
and now we have steam deck wich is a totally open linux platform
I'm not surprised it was published by ASCII, they were pioneers at that kind of hobbyist thing. They're the original authors of RPG Maker. Now say what you want about people uploading their RPG Maker games with default assets and ripped music onto Steam (I think the same thing...) but as a tool to learn game design, RPG Maker is amazing and I spent several summers of my younger days working making homebrew RPGs with it. Unfortunately ASCII seems to have gone under because modern versions of the software are published by Enterbrain.
Spectrum was a big driver for BASIC in the UK, starting in 1979 although it was a very cut down version initially.
That gave me QBasic flashbacks! It would have been fun as a child to play with Basic on a C64. It was annoying as a teenager learning programming in QB on a PC because it was what the high school taught.
I hate when someone states that basic is slow. An interpreter is slow, basic itself can be really fast, if it's a compiler. There are also basic compilers out there.
Also there's a BASIC compiler... written in BASIC.
There's two kind of compiler;
To native machine code; or
a p-code which is then interpreted.
Most basics tokenadise the program speeding up execution. Their slowness generally come in finding data (looking a variable up each time in a table) or the next program token (searching the program text for a given line; really bad (execution timewise) basics store the original line number for a gosub and a RETURN just grabs the line number off the stack and calls GOTO, similarly with FOR-NEXT).
The next level is compiling to a p-code which is interpreted by a virtual cpu - the p-code is the effective machine code of the virtual CPU. During the compilation process the location of variables, subroutines, etc are discovered and put in the code to allow a direct access or jump (just like a cpu) without the need to search the code.
The next level is compiling to native cpu code and linking with library functions (whether stored in an external file or directly to the ROM of the original basic).
The advantage of a p-code is that it can be platform independent - you just need a runtime virtual machine on the destination real machine.
@@cst1229
The C compiler is written in C.
When I first learnt C a book I used had a small C compiler in it along with instructions how to get it running. Various features of C were missing, but by being written in C you could change it to could add them using the minimal C provided, recompile the compiler, re-write the compiler using those features and then recompile the compiler...
You just should not make such a general statement. Looking at 8 bit basics, for example, there is for example bascom, which outperforms gcc by many cpu cycles. Basic as a language can be very powerful. It isn't the syntax that makes the speed, it's the infrastructure behind it. That would actually be a cool project. Making a c64 basic compiler that creates machine code.
I love your channel and everything you do on it, something's I don't understand what you're talking about but I feel I can still follow along. I don't know much about technology, but I love to learn! So thank you for the great content
that's crazy. sometimes the wrong decision destroy markeatbility of a product once and for all
U r a true GEM in terms of Understanding Gaming history... Gor persons like me 40+ age seen entire generations of Gaming...
#include
main( void )
{
:10 printf( "Hello World!" );
:20 goto 10;
}
C labels have to begin with a letter, and the colon comes after.
Love your videos! Please don't ever stop making them!
(before video) I once heard that almost any console could run a form of BASIC. I wonder if there's truth to that.
1 MB of memory, that's quite a lot for BASIC. I mean...if one compares that to how much data 3 KB of memory (Commodore VIC-20 with stock RAM) can contain...it's quite a significant amount.
Of course, I'm sure that no one would actually stick to the simple games/toys provided by Commodore, and would try to push the limits, but hey! Just me doing math here...lolz
Saturn uses 4 MBs of VRAM, but to access its actual DSP and Memory bus, it required a workaround through the Both the Cartridge Slot and Expansion port. In 1998, not alot was known about it.
In an alternate universe, Sega would've released Gsme BASIC overseas and it could have saved the Saturn (and the company)'s reputation.
Dammit man! Excellent topic for a video. This is interesting and I had no idea the Saturn did this
*The funny thing about some BASIC dialects like GWBASIC, Qbasic, and QuickBASIC is that it had a language subroutine called "Call Absolute" where you could execute machine code from a string. BASIC was so slow that it forced you to use ASM for critical functions. You also had Peek and Poke to provide some machine level assistance.*
Basic is the perfect language to start coding, even a kid can use it, from there you can move to C or any other, or go down to assembly
Is assembly the same as robotic? Are they the first languages to be created for computers?
I always see a lot of people complaining with their nostalgia glasses on about how amazing the Dreamcast was and how it never realized it's potential, but to me, that goes to the Saturn, the Dreamcast had it's run and did a lot of things right, people just didn't want to buy it because of the ps2.
But the saturn is another beast entirely, we received the shortest end of the stick because of Sega of America's stupid management, how come they didn't realize the potential of something like this?
In February 2001, US NPD sales of Dreamcast were 500,000.
That's Bad????????
SmileBASIC 4 on the Nintendo switch is exactly like this
Quarantine is when you click on a video which was uploaded a few seconds ago
So I can basically Port Symphony of the Night over with all the effects and have the map of Saturn with the English translation script
Will you make a video how to run basic on the switch? So you will get a copystrike from nintendo.
Seeing that C64 screen made me homesick.
I wonder where you bought that Game Basic from? I have a feeling it was once mine. It has the exact same stain on the front of the main box that mine had. In fact am 100% sure that was once my game basic 😁. I sold mine about 3 or 4 years ago now. Can't quite remember.
This was very interesting and entertaining! So MVG, I noticed it was using Vsync for BASIC on the real-time terminal. I'm curious, when did we see graphical enhancements such as anti-aliasing, anisotropic filtering, etc materialize in gaming? Keep up the exceptional work! :)
You Are The Best
There is something similiar on the Nintendo Switch called FUZE4 if someone is interested in bedroom coding
Also the LABO VR Kit includes a tool to "code" games. There are several news articles in the Switch's news feed that have example games attached.
Never heard of it until now, seems like a really nice way to learn to program games.
@@paunstefan1 Yep, I can confirm that as a proud user. Also community and FUZE team support is awesome, there is a discord server where you can get help or discuss your projects with others and there are some game jams and that's awesome, so starting with FUZE is an easy way to learn programming
@@MineXplayPL I bought it today after your recommendation, I'm really liking it so far. We need software like this on all consoles, they are a great learning experience that I think has been lost in the last decades.
@referral madness It's a hybrid language combining aspects of BASIC, C & Python, hence the name.
im a simple man, i see MVG i click.
Classic
cool video . veri educativ 30 yeasr of stuf .. un tha conslole shindig
"BASIC was simply not an option" [to have fast games]
Tell that to early ZX Spectrum and Amstrad CPC owners who managed to sell such BASIC programs commercially. Neeless to say, they were mostly crap.
YoshiNoir Richard Garriott’s first RPG game, Akalabeth was basic and looking at the source, it’s mostly a single file and must have been a maze of pain to write and debug
Thank you for always bring good information and nice videos for us.
Oh my, AMOS. I bring it up on each job interview to this day as my first programming experience.
i own the saturn gamebasic, i didnt realize it was so powerful!
Hell with this someone could finish Sonic Xtreme or make a definitive Sonic game for the Saturn.
Nope. Not without The Mastering Tool for Saturn Discs "Landscape".
I spent a long time trying to find one of these when i was younger. I've always wanted to program the sega saturn!
@MVG: Now please port heart of darkness to Sega Saturn. Thanks. 👍
There actually was a version of it in the works back in the day..
hiddenpalace.org/Heart_of_Darkness_(May_31,_1996_prototype)#
2:40 - Technically, C is also not cross-platform / portable if in-line assembly language is used (similar to the in-line assembly routines in BASIC)
(Also: I'm nit-picking, but I don't believe that the BASIC or C languages are inherently either 'interpreted' or 'compiled', because interpreters and compilers are available for both)
I think the other problem is that BASIC was not a standardized language in the way that C was, and hence the commands could vary by platform
Bizarrely, BASIC had been standardized since 1978, while C wasn't standardized until 1989. But most BASIC implementations basically ignored the standard while C compilers almost all became standards compliant soon after the standard was ratified.
Back in high school during the 1980s, I got introduced to BASIC via a Wang 2200. Wang Basic could do all kinds of cool stuff. In no time, I was coding games... lots of them that were quite popular in my high school since kids were playing them after school. I have fond memories of coding games in Wang Basic. It kept me out of trouble in high school and it gave me a continual love for computers.
Woah
Well, I've just discovered I'm a BASIC master since that's the programming language used in my Casio calculator
Basic was the best. Goto for the win
I'll just add, Casio had release a scientific programmable calculator that I was selling in a photographic store. This was the first instance of BASIC I knew of while in Sydney. I was working out of George St, ( Nock & Kirby ) and a completely different demographic of Engineers were snapping them up like IPhones... It was a year or two later I began programming the SEGA and understood what the engineers were seeking... Also several years later, while PC's were under 1M of RAM, the space reserved for ROM BASIC was left unused unless you used a COMPAQ. A years worth of scratching my head until the "aaaaaah".. One had to include the reserved BASIC space using a memory manager. That 32K was essential for cramming in memory resident apps (TSRs) and services we all take for granted in modern multitasking/threading operating environments.
Wtf. How and why. The Saturn is the absolute last console I ever imagined BASIC being ported to. Extremely impressive software.
Amazing how high tech that stuff was in the 90’s!!
I remember Future.Library for QuickBasic, which was written in assembly and a linked library for QuickBasic iirc, and let you use things like 1024x768 and higher resolutions, 16-bit and 24-bit colour too, sprite blitting with transparency etc
Edit: there was also a sound solution where you had to install a driver I think? It let you use DirectX/DirectSound, though it wouldn’t run in DOS only, Windows had to be running too
BASIC code is good for fast developing and debugging because of its interpreting nature. But it can also be compiled, and even 8-bit versions had quite some of compilers, producing medium speed or quite fast code, downto machine code. Amiga BASICs were mentioned - AMOS and BLITZ BASIC - former is interpreter, later is compiler. But AMOS had compiler provided as well. And in some ways of coding, compiled BASIC may be even faster than C code, using more primitive coding constructs. Finally, there is always hybrid approach - mixing BASIC, mcode, compiled chunks, linking with C functions/libs and involving other languages. No limits, really, if development kit is comfortable. But on limited machine BASIC ruled. Interpreting it - it was kinda script language, and compiled - might get very decent speed.
My first experience with BASIC was on the Apple II in elementary school... when we weren't playing Oregon Trail.
Awesome video! Smileboom is very nice on 3ds, it allows you to run basic and write games and programs and share them online. The SWITCH English version is coming out soon.
But FUZE is out and that's another BASIC software for switch.
Petit computer was the first version of SMILE BASIC that came out for nintendo ds.
BASIC was the 3rd most braindead mainstream programming language ever conceived. It taught me so many bad habits that I had to unlearn later. X_x
First time I learn of this, great vid. C64 Basic, SEUCK, Amos, Blitz, GW Basic, QBasic, fast forward to 2020 and I'm using Dreams on PS4. Never been a better time to make your entertainment software dreams come true.
I actually had this for my Saturn back in the day. After importing/shipping, it was probably $150, and I was so excited to make my own games!
Unfortunately, I wasn’t much of a programmer at the time, and that thick Japanese manual and Japanese only software was a tough hurdle to cross. I don’t think I even got the demos to run.
As you can imagine, in 1998 there wasn’t much of an online community for the Saturn, and I never came across anyone from an English speaking country that had one. Sadly, I sold it in the early 2000s on eBay for basically nothing.
Now, there’s actually a small community for this product, new demos/games and even English translated manuals! You can run it on an emulator or even an ODE. Maybe I’ll give it another go..
I wonder if somehow this could work on an emulator on a PC to develop something?
Interesting, didn't know about this. It looks like a good development environment, since you could see your code while the game plays. It's too bad you had to have a PC hooked up to play these Basic games, though. I guess there wasn't a market for a Basic compiler that could make them standalone.
So this is basically how game maker back in the early 90s,
just to show the older generation is way smarter than the current ones.
This is becoming scary if you think how spoiled current and future generation are...
Thanks MVG
p.s
You have a paterion or some donation site?
also, Can you please make a live stream where people can actually interact with you?
Thanks.