Self-defense or Murder? | SCENE INVESTIGATORS pt. 4
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
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Kay's been real busy so no thumbnail just yet
It really is like a complete offshoot of Painscreek. All of the elaborate, dramatic, overarching story has been removed and the detective gameplay has been doubled and improved across the board. Fery tells me the game was designed with a "70/30" principle in mind, meaning 70% of the story can be learned by exploring the crime scene and examining documents but the remaining 30% must be reached by assumptions and inferences -- like a real detective.
The challenge is lots of fun, and I'm especially excited to play some of these episodes with friends, but even just me and my thoughts I'm having a great time so far.
Hope you enjoy!
Vote for Holt, spread the word!
The hyperfixation on the snickers bar is killing me😂
i think the reason why the safe is in the kids room is because you can’t enter the mothers bedroom so it can’t be in there and the developers couldn’t put it in the office because then the crime scene wouldn’t make sense. also i think the mom probably sold the ring to pay for camp for greta cause camp is expensive.
spoiler section to people not at end of video:
- when i played this chapter, one reason i deduced the babysitter was not the one home at the time of the crime is because the babysitter is probs like 16, and wouldn’t know where the gun was kept or the code to the safe. therefore, it had to be brenda who was home and got the gun.
- and the babysitter and mom wouldn’t be there at the same time cause that’s just how babysitting usually works.
- the mess in the office wasn’t caused by an altercation. the father was ransacking the office in search of the baby’s birth certificate, so he could ran away with her imo
- i think 911 gets called after brenda shoots clyde
- there isn’t any evidence that lori was there. there’s evidence someone was in the living room, but no evidence in my opinion that someone was in the office.
- clyde and brenda both had a gun. tbh i didn’t really mind where the shell casings and bullets landed cause i feel like it doesn’t always make sense in this game
- this game definitely does not favor overthinking which i find holt does often (also i’m using the name holt instead of jaime cause saying jaime feels parasocial lol)
- idk if you would consider this a spoiler, but the game does explain the crimes at the end of each section once you get all the answers in that section correct
that's so smart about the birth certificate but that blue box thing was literally FLUNG across the room, although I do agree about the papers being spread out in a way that suggests someone was searching for something. i thought it meant clyde throwing things at brenda? i agree brenda called 911 after she shot clyde. it just doesn't make sense to me that she shot him while he was holding the baby i think he never had the baby i think the baby was with brenda in the living room lmao that's my weird hill that i'll die on because that baby chair thing in the living room stuck out to me a lot.
@@user-vg4og2qt1z yeah i think it’s implied he took sarah, but brenda wouldn’t have shot him if he was holding her so that makes no sense. maybe he just stopped to look at sarah then went to the office to look for birth certificate and his plan was to take that then carry sarah out the window
The birth certificates! That’s almost definitely it. If the dad wants to run away with his kids those documents would probably be important to maintaining the illusion of custody… or something.
That definitely adds up to me - maybe if he could just destroy the paperwork it would accomplish the same thing - erase records of the mom even having kids.
That is a welcome tidbit about solutions being revealed when you test at the very end! And Holt/Jamie are both good with me :]
Detective Kayleigh has joined the force!
How did we do in this one, clue crew?
kayleigh’s addition is great and much needed as she not only picks up on things you missed, but she also stops you from overthinking too much lol
I don't think the window theory makes sense, with the fact that Clyde had to unlock the window in the kids' room to get in. I think it's a lot more likely that Brenda heard the commotion, got the gun, and either snuck around Clyde while he was going through her office or they had a stand off. Also, we would've seen footprints on the windowsill if Brenda went out the window Clyde came in because of the planter box as she would've probably stepped in it to exit the room.
@@LJSohma the missing shell casing from brenda's second shot is what bolsters the window theory as well as the box drawer thing being thrown right at that point, but yes it makes no sense - how could she get in, how do we even know there is room to walk around outside the window, and the footprints thing too, and the window being shut behind her. the missing shell casing is what really bothers me.
28:29 me, out loud: You sure you wanna do that? Great gun safety there...
Kayleigh, simultaneously: yeah just look right down the barrel-
Anyways, glad we're on the same page XD
First two rules of gun safety are have fun and be yourself
Kayleigh's big brain. Can't wait to see you guys do the other two 😂. My fiance and I got stumped on the "Who was present at the break-in?" Question, too, lol.
P.S. You will get the option to read what really happened. You have to (1) complete all of the cases in that one level with (2) an A grade. Maybe that was the reason why you weren't able to read the official case files in the "Missing" exam?
Native Queens resident here. The zip code 11367 is in fact in central Queens. The area code 212 used to be Queens, now it is only for Manhattan. The area code 646 is more recent, and it is also only for Manhattan. The devs obviously don't want to use real addresses or phone numbers. The point is that these are not out-of-town or out-of-state phone numbers.
You figured out there was a third shot before you found the bullet -- so I think that counts
Alright, spoilers for those who watched the episode, but for those who have watched it or played it, there is none!
Anyways, dumb observations first which have nothing to do with the case! First of all, the throwaway character 'Harold Jenkins' is the same name as a character from The Umbrella Academy which me and my friend found funny. Second of all, who started playing 'They Both Reached for the Gun' from Chicago lmao
Alright onto actual observations from the episode that got glossed over
- First, in the situation it states that the neighbors dialed 911, not anyone at the scene, meaning that while 911 was going to be called, Brenda didn't get to it, likely because Clyde was already in the flat and in the office (which the latter was picked up on)
- Also im not entirely sure you went through everything in the 'Contacts' book, you did the same with the same book twice in the last case and didn't pick it up, but I won't state what because you haven't fully solved that mystery yet. No offence Jamie but you have a BAD habit of not flicking through all of the pages in the books
- Clyde taking the baby feels off to me also, he probably went over to look at the baby (it's his child afterall), but when he didn't see Greta, he probably got mad and went to question Brenda (afterall, it was 11 :35 at night, as seen by the clock and digital time on the phone, a child wouldn't be out somewhere at that time unless something had happened to them)
- As for the scuffle, I think window theory is a bit far fetched. The room has a lot more objects than just the top drawer thrown around (the mouse, the pencil sharpener, Brenda's jewelry box, potentially even a pencil pot considering all the stationary on the floor), so I think it all happened within that room.
- Brenda having the gun could be for any number of reasons. She could have heard something going on outside, she could have already had it not in the safe (afterall there's implied abuse through Clyde's drinking problem, so there could be leftover trauma of not feeling safe in the flat alone with a 1 year old), or it could be just simple game design, though that feels least likely because the crime scenes in this game are very well thought out.
- There's also any number of reasons that Brenda was in the office, and as I type this I'm coming to a small revelation. If she was in the living room eating, she has the baby monitor there, and would have heard Clyde potentially stop by Sarah (i believe it mentions he's been to jail, plus the restraining order so no matter how messed up this is, he's missed his kid), and thus seen an opening to move from the living room to go and call 911 on the phone. As she passed, Clyde probably heard her, and followed in after her, the scuffle happened, guns fired and Clyde dies. As much as you dunked on the chocolate bar, I do think the fact Brenda was halfway through eating gives us an idea of what happened before the crime !
This is a little all over the place, but I do hope you take what I have to say into consideration on the case aha, I have a lot of fun mulling over the cases after I watch the play though, and it makes me wish I could play this game myself, but alas. I do think it's made my detective skills better though lmao
Edit: Spelling, as usual, general clarity, and something i forgot to mention
Hey!
So unless I’m mistaken I think I actually *did* look at all the pages of the phone book, but to my knowledge the 2nd pages was nothing but red herrings so I cut it from the video. My bad! Was recovering from a cold at the time and wasn’t thinking of how it might be important to show the viewer everything even if I deemed it to be unimportant.
Just in case, I’ll go back and take a look with Kay.
The idea of Clyde not kidnapping Sarah is a little unlikely, because Greta even writes that he said he would “come and rescue them”. If anything, I think it’s likely that Clyde was also drunk since he was an established alcoholic. That might explain a little more of why the office was in such a mess, too.
@@Vote5Holt it's no problem abt the book, it just becomes ambiguous if or not you've missed something so yk
Anyways, now I've thought about it, I suppose Clyde could have grabbed Sarah, it's just weird to think about the scuffle in the office while he has a baby in the hand because you'd think it'd be more difficult for him to grab and throw things, especially if he had a gun (though he nay have had it knocked out of his hand via Brenda throwing something at him or similar), but also because you'd think Brenda would be less likely to throw things at him while he had her baby in hand. Then again, she did still shoot him, so maybe adrenaline took over. Either way, y'all solved it, and it was cool seeing your guy's banter through the episode o7
THEY ARE ON THE 4TH FLOOR SHE COULDNT HAVE COME THROUGH THE WINDOW
edit to be more concise: its apartment 401 in an apartment building, the only reason clyde came in through the kids window is because its the room with the FIRE ESCAPE!
Think it’s entirely possible that the fire escape reaches both windows. I’m sold that the third shot must have come from outside the window, the 3rd shell casing would be somewhere in the room if it hadn’t
My only struggle with the conclusion, is that none of the other windows were open in the apartment. Clyde had to use a coat hanger to undo the lock, and if Brenda wasn't in the office, wouldn't she had to do something similar to get the window open? Also, her going through the motion of closing that window seems far fetched. Good work figuring out the answers regardless, love your content! Can't wait for the next one!
that closed window won't let me know peace, as well as the 911 dialled but not called. those are what keep window theory from fitting perfectly
Found your channel through you Painscreek Killings essay videos and love watching you play detective games! Have you ever heard of Jenny Leclue: Detectivu? It’s a very interesting story and was a surprisingly good find I played about a year ago. The story gets pretty crazy and darker than expected.
I think you need to put 70/30 out of your mind at least until you've gone through each room. It feels very good to try to make connections, but this game needs you to have more information before you start to bias yourself toward any conclusions.
I was waiting for thisssss I'm seated Edit after watching: this was a great solution
something was BOTHERING ME so much about the mess in that room, i just couldn't understand how the papers on the floor got there (from that blue box) until kayleigh pointed it out and you realized it was thrown across the room. but who called 911 then? i guess brenda called 911 AFTER she shot clyde?
also i should've known there was no babysitter when the notes about the baby were in brenda's handwriting and her shift was from 1pm - 7 pm and the break-in most likely was at night? although the notes could be old? also the mom's notes end at 1 am in the morning but the clock is stopped at around 11 no? this case made my head hurt lol
but honestly what i don't understand and what i think is a flaw here is in what world does brenda come in through the window to shoot her ex-husband and then CLOSE IT BEHIND HER? that makes no sense to me at all.
also what if clyde never had the baby and it was with brenda in the living room? in that case, she either leaves the baby in the chair or takes it with her, goes out the window, and then either she has the baby while she shoots clyde, or the baby's still in the chair. and his footprints pause beside the crib as he registers the baby's not in it. i think it's more likely she left the baby in the chair, because she must've had to react very fast, unless he was really drunk. i just find it hard to believe brenda would shoot him while he had the baby, even though she clearly hated him, and the baby chair thing was placed so deliberately in the living room, it stuck out to me a lot.
also maybe he missed brenda and shot into the cabinet because he was drunk at the time, that could also be why he knocked over the flowerpot, or maybe he missed because he was holding the baby. i think the window being shut is an oversight because if it was open it would've been immediately obvious it was a point of entry. i
think brenda left the baby in the chair, went out through the window, shot clyde in the leg, he threw the box at her, collapsed, she shot him in the head, then called 911. i don't think the baby was ever in that room.
Second edit: maybe he was holding the baby, searching for the birth certificate in that blue box thing, saw brenda at the window with a gun, threw the box he was searching in at her. he then goes for his gun to shoot at brenda but misses and hits the cabinets. maybe seeing that he'd missed he kind of ladles or drops the baby onto the floor maybe to steady his aim and shoot again at brenda assuming he's drunk at the time he tries using both hands? and now brenda, seeing the baby on the ground, shoots him twice, the first time in the leg from the window, the other in the head inside the room.
those are my two unbelievably overthought theories just because i refuse to believe a woman who takes meticulous notes about her infant would shoot the man holding her infant lmfao.
i wonder if she shot him in the leg, called 911, and then, thought for a while, realized this man would not leave her and her children alone, and shot him in the head. after all a restraining order didn't stop him, and the shot in the head is so deliberate, so calculated.
@@user-vg4og2qt1z i think the baby was in the crib cause if she was in the little seat thing in the living room, why would brenda have the baby monitor on the coffee table? i think the baby monitor on the coffee table implies the baby was in the crib. and if it was 11ish at night then the baby would probably be asleep i think
I think I’m 100% convinced that she shot him from outside the window simply because there is no third shell casing but bullet holes on the crime scene. Why she closed the window, I don’t know - maybe it was just cold outside. Regardless, that makes the most sense to me by a landslide
@@Vote5Holt it is the only thing that makes a modicum of sense but there are still questions. if it was a door, i'd buy that muscle memory might make you close it behind you even in a high-stakes scenario, but it's a window. if i was crawling through a window to shoot my ex-husband whom i had a restraining order against and who was currently endangering my baby the cold would be the last of my concerns !! the missing shell casing is definitely the strongest factor in favor of window theory, i just wish the devs would've left the window open, or with handprints on it, or something. after all the cabinet where she grabbed the gun was open, and that means something to me, the player - following that logic, the window being shut should also mean something.
so ready for this
I am locked tf in
The Question mark is a case you unlock later .
What if the gun safe belonged to the ex husband and the mother got the second gun for protection.
Oh…. That’s an interesting idea, but I feel like the father would have probably taken his property in the divorce. Still, we failed to consider that on the scene
@@Vote5Holt the footprints don't go towards the safe at all, and the way the second gun has fallen really suggests it fell from the person who was shot's hand. i don't think it's the case
This game reminds me of Frances Glessner Lee's Nutshell Studies of Unexplained Death, a series of miniature dioramas that illustrate scenes of, appropriately, unexplained deaths inspired by real cases. Glessner intended these dollhouses of death to serve as educational tools for those studying crime scene investigation, learning how to engage in close looking to uncover what happened. Even though the Nutshells were created in the late 40s, they are still used today to train investigators, and, as such, the answers are still under lock and key.
ooooh i've been waiting for this! :D
This one was also a head scratcher for me when I played, and even after I got the answers right on my own I had to look up the “actual” story. Unfortunately, it felt like the answers I found was just more speculation (that 70/30 rule putting in overtime.)
My personal theory is Clyde broke in, grabbed the baby, and went to the office searching for the birth certificates. Brenda heard the noise from the baby monitor and realized Clyde was already in the office with Sarah. Brenda grabbed the gun and confronted Clyde but obviously didn’t want to shoot him while he was holding Sarah. They get in a standoff which results in the two of them switching positions in the office (Brenda slowly working her way closer to the phone to dial 911.) Clyde notices her dialing and shoots a warning shot into the bookcase at which point Brenda decides her best option is to shoot him in the side so she doesn’t hurt Sarah and can grab her from his arms before shooting him point blank in the head.
Thoughts?
i think you nailed it! the only problem is the missing shell casing :(
This is mostly plausible and I definitely agree with the idea that Clyde was searching for the kids’ birth certificates. Maybe he would need them to run away and set up a new life, or maybe he was just drunk and didn’t understand how little they would help him. I don’t buy the warning shot, though- I really believe that 3rd shot must have come from the window. It’s the only reason why the 3rd shell casing wasn’t found- it’s sitting on the street, four stories below.
@@Vote5Holt they mean the shot from Clyde's gun that's in the bookcase thingy that you found last in the video
My guntysm was going crazy when you said the gun on the instruction manual (27:12) was a SIG... It is in fact not a SIG, it's a Beretta M9
Furthermore at 28:20 you say that something weird is going on.. well yes you are looking straight down the barrel, but also it's a smoothbore (no riffling in the barrel) so that is a bit weird :P
one thing i want to add is as a nurse maybe brenda knew how to take a good shot like perhaps a kidney shot as you said? Although her job was in a care home I think…
I wonder if the time of the phone calls is important? She called Lilian earlier that day and then the last call she made was to Lori. (Do outgoing and incoming calls have a different icon by the number? They all showed “incoming” in my opinion)Maybe she had to call out of work if nobody could take care of Sarah, and at the last moment lori called her back and said she could come over. I hope part 2-3 have some more details to explain the list of addresses in his wallet and the unknown phone numbers.
Maybe she pawned her ring to buy a gun!
Pawning the ring to buy a gun… that makes a lot of sense. And the phone calls - to me at least - all looked outgoing. I think m there’s a simple with a phone an arrow when they’re outgoing? And if they’re red they’re missed calls, I think. Not totally sure
i can't describe it but the mess in the office room makes no sense and doesn't seem like an altercation at all it just is so weird to me lmfao but i can't explain it. the computer mouse on the floor when there's no desktop and no mousepad? why would you have your jewellry box in your office? the papers dumped on the floor next to the doorway - how did they get knocked off the desk? you wouldn't keep your jewellry box on your desk, in your office, or at least i wouldn't. the jewellry box and the thing with the papers in it could've been knocked over by brenda as she went to call 911 i guess. i think the blue box at the foot of the window is your indication that the window is brenda's point of entry but the way the mess is spread around the room baddles me, the blue box is the only thing that makes sense, it was thrown. someone suggested the mess is because clyde was searching for the kids' birth certificates but honestly the mess in the room makes no sense to me as someone either searching for something nor as an altercation except the box. i'm way overthinking
head hurts. things that bother me:
why is there a jewellry box in the office / is it related to the wedding ring / was the wedding ring being pawned a trigger for the alteration
why was the window shut if brenda came in through the window
911 is not called, only dialled. why?
theory #3: brenda moved the gun from the safe into her jewelry box while greta was at camp as it wasn't necessary to lock the gun in the safe anymore and there was a call to her from a number that wasn't 212 so maybe clyde threatened her. she followed clyde into the office after he broke in holding the baby and tried to reason with him. it didn't work, so she tried to dial 911. he shot at her / threw the box at her. she went for the jewellry box, knocking over the chair, and the paper-holder thingy, dumping the papers on the floor beside the desk. she was close enough beside him she shot him in the leg, which made him drop the gun and the baby. she wondered about calling 911 for real, decided not to, shot him in the head. flaw in theory: no shell casing for clyde being shot in the leg, the cupboard that the ammo is in is open.
i can't tell if this crime scene is badly designed or if there's something obvious being missed. i can't think of a theory that perfectly explains every little thing, there's always something that feels off.
Oh, yeah, the computer mouse, that part's really weird to me - did they just forget to render the cable, or are we meant to believe someone went so ham on it that they ripped it clean off? If so, why, what business would Clyde even have messing with the computer - or with the mouse, specifically, as the laptop looks relatively un-messed with? But the thing that trips me up the most is the lamps, they're weirdly untouched, especially the one that stands right over the pile of papers and knocked over chair - how did those things manage to stay upright if Clyde was stumbling and throwing shit all around the room? Like, if I was rendering a ransacked room, the first thing I'd do was at least make the lamp a little crooked. It's super weird.
In a meta sense, I guess they chose to put Brenda's jewellery box in the office because they weren't rendering her bedroom - but that raises MORE questions because it implies that someone, at some point, decided it would be important to give Brenda a jewellery box. What is that supposed to tell us? What story is the jewellery box telling? I'm fixating on that necklace again! But damn it, it feels out of place!
@@sand__witch doesnt it feel so out of place ??? the whole mess in the office feels wrong to me !! did brenda mess it up on purpose after shooting clyde in the head to make it seem like self-defense? after she realized that shooting in the head (after she'd already incapacitated him by shooting him in the leg) would be out of the realm of self-defense? remember, 911 was punched in but there was no call. i think the computer mouse was supposed to not be being used as there's no mousepad and is just something that got tossed onto the floor. to be honest i think the reason the mess feels so off is because the laptop and the phone are interactable, so they needed to be working and not askew, and these two items being immaculately placed, while there is a JEWELRY BOX on the floor and the paper holder thing knocked off the desk, makes the mess feel weird and unbalanced, on a meta level.
Honestly,,, this is the first one I don’t feel confused about. The “office” (which I can accept had a jewelry box in it for no discernible reason) looks like it was ransacked, definitely by the Husband, when the mom came by and lit him up. The only thing I’m not 100% on is what he was looking for, but as for why the clutter fell the way it did I’m pretty confident it’s not terribly important. Computer mouse is definitely odd, but probably not important
@@Vote5Holt if i was searching for something, i wouldn't dump papers on the floor. i would strew them over the desk, i would sweep the computer and phone out of the way, and paw through the papers across the desk. that's what feels natural to me, and the phone and laptop being untouched and papers dumped on the floor along with a jewellery box makes the crime scene feel very off and artifical to me.
the box thrown across the room - i wouldn't do that if i was searching through its contents, i would do that if i was holding a baby and wanted to attack my ex-wife so i throw the nearest thing at her.
i do agree that it isn't important, and i think it is just because as i said, the laptop and phone needed to be in working order for the player to interact with.
comparing this to the previous scenario, the one where there was an altercation of Phillip attacking Rose - that scene was so obviously, clearly evident as an altercation, the bunched-up sheets, the blood, the brass knuckles, you could see it in your head plain as day where the attacker was and where the victim was and how it all went down. i
n this particular scenario i can't visualize what went down at all, how it played out.
i do think we're supposed to think he went into the office to find the birth certificates because i don't understand why they were included if not for that exact reason. i just think the way it was laid out isn't very cohesive or conducive to "storytelling" what went down unlike previous scenarios.
Welcome Detective Kayleigh! Sorry about your eyes.
As a non-American, you guys will sometimes just casually mention things that knock me on my ass, but I don't recall ever being floored by anything quite as hard as the second name thing, it's such a little detail of life but I FULLY did not expect that to be a thing 😮 Super interesting though, will definitely be paying attention to second names from now on
25:31 That makes me think it really was Brenda who was a nurse, not the babysitter - the shoes look both really comfy and really cheap, it would make sense for someone with such a running- and standing-heavy profession to have a few pairs.
Hell yeah called it
For a second feminine opinion - I'm probably also an outlier because I rarely wear necklaces and when I do, they're usually so long that I don't need to use the clasp at all, just slip them on and off. However, that necklace, in my opinion, looks long enough to do that, so for that reason, I believe Brenda would store it clasped, and that in turn would mean she got it ripped off of her in the struggle. On the other hand, however, she's a nurse and has an infant - I believe a woman in that situation wouldn't wear necklaces on a day-to-day basis, as they're far too easy for a confused patient or the baby to grab. If she was really wearing it during the break-in, I'd guess she was probably leaving for/coming back from some sort of event...or it did just fall out of the box and I'm overthinking this. (In the end, turns out there probably wasn't a struggle at all, but I'll still keep my thoughts here just in case necklaces come up later).
There's still one problem I have with the window theory - it assumes that the window to the study was open to begin with, and in that case, why did Clyde bother breaking in? Although, I guess you could explain that he just wanted to go for Sarah's bed as quickly as possible, plus the window being open might imply that Brenda was IN the study, and he probably wouldn't want to walk straight into her.
I really disagree, when I take a necklace off I don't re-clasp it because I would want it to be open the next time I put it on, and clasps are so annoying to fiddle around with that I'd rather not deal with it. great spot on the shoes I didn't even think of that! i don't think the necklace was ripped off at all, esp since there's clearly a box on the floor and other jewelry on the floor with it, I think clyde was throwing things at her. what i don't get is why the window was shut. would brenda, coming in through the window to shoot her ex-husband, close the window behind herself?
@@user-vg4og2qt1z I fully get the necklace thing, I initially assumed the necklace might be long enough that Brenda would've never had the necessity to open the clasp at all. That being said, on a closer look, the clasp is just open, not ripped, so she was definitely storing it open. My original comment was based on the - probably false - assumption that the necklace was on her neck when Clyde broke in, but given that all the other jewellery is on the floor too, it seems farfetched. I definitely overthought the necklace lol
And yeah, the window being closed is another point against the window theory. If she didn't just come in and shoot him and there was a longer struggle, maybe she thought to quickly close it so she wouldn't fall/be pushed out. But I don't think there's really enough evidence they physically fought before he was shot.
@@sand__witch i think the devs made the window closed because an open window wouldve been too obvious as a point of entry. i'm currently hyperfocused on where the baby was because i just don't believe brenda would've shot clyde if he was holding the baby lmao. also no worries on overthinking the necklace i'm still cracking up at vfh's immediate and ultimately meaningless fixation on the chocolate bar with a bite taken out of it lmaoo
I feel it’s perfectly believable that Clyde might have only intended to enter the kids room, and the only reason he wound up in the office was trying to find out where Greta was. Also - I did later realize that this was taking place on the 4th floor of a building… but there was probably a fire escape, which explains how Clyde entered and how Brenda took the shot.
Yeaaaaa I think I’m team necklace-was-in-the-box. Doesn’t seem terribly relevant, and I can’t imagine an instance where Clyde rips it off Brenda’s neck where he wouldn’t just shoot her first.
It’s a pretty tricky one yeah!
Lori wasn’t there…so idk why she’s still being discussed 1:00:13
lol think we were coping at the idea “maybe Clyde doesn’t count as present” because we really believed Lori was the ace in the hole we latched onto