Be sure to leave any constructive criticism, positive feedback or video ideas. Tried a couple of new things in this video. I'm planning on making videos on a more consistent point moving forward.
Maybe you could add some of your own maps into the videos? It'd help the audience to better comprehend the changes that have happened, and it's also a chance to put more personality into your video
@@noelle036 I'll be including more maps in future videos, you're right they do improve the quality of the videos. I felt how I wrote the script for this one didn't really accommodate for the use of maps,.
0:27 "The religious movement that Muhammad had began..." (had BEGUN! It's a past participle, not simple past. We say begin, began, has begun, had begun. Some patterns are stranger like I run, I ran, I have run, I had run. It seems to go back to the present tense but it really didn't.)
i would only have to disagree with italy in the olt in 663 Constans nearly conquered beveneto with an actual empire the south most likely falls and Constans II migth be able to retake the peninsula
@@HistorysInfluence Please I just watched the video and it didn't focus on Africa much particularly West Africa. Please comment. I want to hear your thoughts on this. Personally I think West Africa would've been Catholic and more Western.
Without the Muslims in iberia, the Spanish language would be different and colonialism would be much less harsh to the natives, meaning natives would have more power
Good point, without the harshness of the Reconquista Spanish culture would be noticeably different from our own timeline, and the structure of the society too, as it won't be one built from reconquest.
Interesting point of view. Late Medieval Spain definitely had an expansionist mentality due to its gradual emergence from the centuries of war that were the Reconquista. That mentality did much to fuel its aggressive expansion and colonization of the New World. So if the Spanish and Portuguese were never conquered by the Moors in the seventh century and were just mostly left in peace throughout the Middle Ages (with the Pyrenees Mountains being a great natural barrier to any attacks from the French side), then they would have either colonized the New World more peacefully and gradually OR some other European power would have done so instead. So maybe Latin America would be speaking French, English or Dutch instead of Spanish and Portuguese.
@@HistorysInfluence Yes. The Aztecs nearly beat the Spanish in our timeline. In fact Cortez was under strict orders by the Queen to NOT strike at kings (to the point where he had to burn down his own ships to force other Spaniards to fight for him). Meaning, without the Spanish setting a precedent, expect cultures like the Mayans, Aztecs, and Incas to survive much better.
Yes but they would still die due to diseases like chickenpox Spanishpox (dunno heard that term somewhere) And influenza as they had basically NO defense against those viruses and one big enough spark of it could wipe out entire populations
A united Christianism, under the influence of the Byzantine Empire (because the Franks didn't got so powerful to be proclaimed Holy Roman Emperor and then no schism), a beautiful Visigothic Iberia, and the most important, perhaps a Latin North Africa, a romance language that was murdered before birth, along with a Zoroastrian and stronger Iran.
You forgot about Amazigh (berber), the native language of the Maghreb, it would've been much more alive and still the majority language there while north African romance to a lesser degree, most likely being a prestigious language spoken by the upper class similar to french in north Africa nowadays.
Interesting video, however from what I know Persia was seeing considerate amount of Christian growth that the Persians were trying to suppress, so I think It's equally likely that Persian could become Christian, though perhaps Nestorian instead and becoming the main power center for that faith to project influence outward, the Nestorian faith would take the place of Islam in the Region. Edit: Also I'd like to see your take on cody's "What if North and South America were never connected?" What if, perhaps with more of a focus on possibilities for South American nations. Also perhaps at somepoint you could make videos involving multiple what ifs, Like combining "What if gunpowder never existed/was invented later", "What if North and South America were never connected", and What if Humans never migrated to the Americas?"(minus any colonial era stuff)/"What if the Bering Strait never existed?", though maybe more what if humans never crossed it as horses came from North America and that would change too much. I just think that scenario could make for a interesting "Humans vs Monsters" world, sorta like that Monster Hunter Game series, but less Fantastical and possibly only occurring for a century or two.
Might be true on the Nestorian point, from what I was aware of tho was that it was just a Mesopotamia focused thing (which was the location of their capital to be fair). Regarding the other ideas you've mentioned, I have a bit of a fascinatiion with Human pre-history so a Bering Straight concept or something along those lines would be interesting.
@@HistorysInfluence Alright, Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I would love to see something like that. Also Altas pro's video on "Lost continents" might be a good source of inspiration for such what ifs too
i do think it was likely Persia would be at least partially Christianized in this timeline, the Church of the East was steadly growing there before Islam came along, late Sassanian emperors were getting closer to the Christian communities and intermarrying, and the last persons to claim the Sassanian thrones, in exile under Chinese protection, were Christians themselves.
Christianity doesn't completely replace Islam in this time line so no, yes countries like Egypt Syria Lebanon Jordan and Palestine would be christian countries but countries like Indonesia would probably be Buddhist and countries like Pakistan would probably be hindu, countries like Iraq and Iran
@@peace2033 okay, 1st its Isreal not Palestine according to un, ik its also called palatine. 2nd yes, The middle east was full of Aramaic speakers before some genocide, they got converted to Christianity MANY MANY MANY years ago, like before Islam, referring to 4:33. I personally am a Chaldean, I speak Aramaic, bla bla bla... anyway im from Iraq and if Islam never existed Iraq would have a majority of people in the Catholic Church of the East. baseicly the whole middle east that isn't Persians would have religions from the past before the islamic people screwed things up. Like the people from Yemen and Oman weren't even that arab believe it or not, and Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, those places weren't arab, some Lebanese dont even consider themselves Arab. that place was once a place where earlier Semitic people thrived. Now The other countries like Indonesia and Pakistan and etc. yeah they would probably be Hindu or Buddhist. I just wanted to let you know from a person middle east decent. p.s Jesus spoke Aramaic 🤯
oh cant forget about Hebrew and Jewish they would be more there because the Arab's wouldn't "threaten them" and the People ruling the area would be Assyrians, Decedents of the Neo Babylonians and etc. Jewish and Christianity only have differences regarding the new testament and Jesus, including more, too many to list. It is possible the "Aramaic's" I'm gonna say for now might've not liked the Jewish, Forcing the Jewish to leave, and if Hitler did what he did, well then :/ oops, he he 😓 I pray for the people in that terrible event..
This is an excellent video. Many millions of deaths averted. India would have far fewer invasions.. No Armenian Genocide. Zoroastrianism a major world religion. What about Mansa Musa? If he and his kingdom were Christian, would he do a tour of the Five Christian Patriarchates?
Cheers. Good question on Mansu Musa. The butterfly effect part of me wants to say he would never exist, but if he did, perhaps Christian influences spreading from North Africa to the West Africa region would cause such a man to go on the holy Pilgrimage you described.
I think orthodox Christians would be the ones getting all the hate from the western Europeans and and n/s americans instead of Islam, and therefore the other subdivisions of Christianity would be considered more distant from each other. So basically Christianity would be more divided
I think that would make sense, a Byzantine/Neo-Byzantine + Orthodox Slavs vs Western Europe type situation. I think whatifalthist's Islam video had that type of concept in it.
Christianity doesn't completely replace Islam in this time line so no, yes countries like Egypt Syria Lebanon Jordan and Palestine would be christian countries but countries like Indonesia would probably be Buddhist and countries like Pakistan would probably be hindu, countries like Iraq and Iran would be zondarantist, and countries like Saudi Arabia would be hanif.
Personally I believe most Modern faiths come from god in some form, just made for different peoples, times, and places. Though, ff the same is true for Hinduism for example, it's likely that it's just been distorted over 1000s of years. I don't think God would Dam Billions to hell just for not being aware of his exist or his teachings, and/or being taught overwise. That isn't exactly fair, and God IS fair, so it must be true that the rules for going to heaven or hell are a lot less restricted, or at the very least based on someone's intentions and actions. For example, who do you think should go to heaven? a Malicious person who happens to be a Christian? or a Muslim who has done righteous things such as help people avoid sin and help those in need?
I’m a little late since I just found this channel so I don’t know if anyone will read this but in regards to the House of Wisdom in Baghdad; from what I understand the Sassanid Shah Khosrow II built a massive library in Ctesiphon that was destroyed by the Arabs when they conquered the region. So the passing on of certain literary works would have likely continued
That's a good point I didn't consider. I knew generally the arabs were continuing the work of the Persians, but not about that actual library in particular.
Great book on the Sassanid/Byzantine war by James Howard-Johnston that goes into great detail on why this debilitating war happened. Could imagine Wahl-lid being a Byzantine calvary commander. Man should be a top 5-10 greatest general of antiquity. Curious if the Seljuks would still migrate to the Middle East possibly be part of the Sassanids if they were still around converting to Zoroaster. That would be pretty impactful if they were used against the ERE.
No offense and I do extremely love ur videos but it seems like the strength of the medieval Roman Empire is underestimated here. 1. While Berbers pose a constant threat in North Africa, there's a small chance that they could have conquered it as it's an important source of grain for the western provinces of the byzantine empire. This goes to the following point 2. majority of Italy would have remained in the empire because of the existence of Carthage. Italian urban centers would recover in 100 years and the western provinces would be back as a profitable area where resources and men can be mustered to reconquer most of Italy. In our timeline, the Byzantine hold on southern Italy even if those provinces were not profitable but in this timeline, the empire is 4x richer, and unless there's a great conqueror from the North, it's almost impossible to envision an Italy without the Empire in this timeline, while conceding that Northern Italy may remain to barbarians polities like the franks or the Lombard but heavily influenced by Byzantium. 2. The Empire would certainly last up to the modern-day without Islam. Imagine Turkey but on steroids. Sure Egypt and the Levant after a few hundred years probably around the 1100s or 1200s because of religious difference with Orthodox but it would only mean that the Roman Empire again is divided, this time between North and South based on Constantinople and Alexandria. Also, the Copts as an entity are almost gone by around 500s. Most of the people in Egypt even copts do consider themselves as Romans. Only by the Islamic occupation did the Copts begin to reinvigorate their identity, but in this timeline without Islam, Egypt will be thoroughly Romanised. Just check out Dr. Bolman's interview: ruclips.net/video/oMIwE3DoU3U/видео.html
"Turkey but on steroids" bruh Greece would remain closely the same, The nomad empires would still take Anatolia, no empire remains forever, neither do borders, islam or not the Turks, Mongols and Tatars have to settle somewhere eventually
Another thing that could be mentioned is that without Islam, the Golden Horde would most likely convert to Orthodox Christianity and assimilate to the local Russian culture. This would mean that this timeline's Russia would be less authoritarian and have more democratic tendencies
If we didn't exist maybe something else other than democracy might come instead in minds of these weirdos in europe, if we didn't exist it would be such a big change that many things would be different that it may lead to no democracy for instance being preferred system in much of europe.
@@Ayushgraphy oh how much I enjoy the notion that the mere existence of Islam hurt the egos of people like you. You have a lot on us to prove to you, whereas we have no obligations to prove our principles to you. Lol literally none what so ever...
@HistorysInfluence because both Christianity and Islam are having a big influence to our world today Oh btw can you make a video what if South Korea wins the Korean War?
Not to mention there will be less slave trade. As the church tries to stamp out slavery, without Islam endorsing slavery, perhaps European and African nations might flourish better as there are more local populations not enslaved & sold away to some Arabian desert.
This also depends a lot on how far Christianity has spread into Africa by the time colonialism comes around. In this scenario it is assumed that colonialism takes place at a later date. By this point the West Africa coastal tribes may have adopted Christianity which makes it harder for Europeans to justify slavery since they are enslaving a fellow believer.
@@justus4341Nah, i'd argue it would still happen earlier at some point. Since Islamic caliphates and sultanates disrupted the process of colonization anyways and usually collapses and dies eventually whenever its weakened. The problem isnt about Islam but geopolitics is one of the common problem without this religion, since there would be big changes on this instead on the history.
Great video, thanks a lot. I think it would be better and more advanced world(specially in the field of science) and eventually Persian and Roman enmity would be replaced by friendship or at least they tried to cooperate with eachother in limited subjects. Turks may convert to Zoroastrianism, Buddhism and Christianity. It would be much better world for Iran
Coastal Somalis, the Oromo, and the Swahili city states might develop their own sect of Zoroastrianism in this alternate universe because they had strong ties to Iran. The city of Mogadishu (the Somali capital) was founded by Persian settlers and it even has a Persian name, both Swahili and Somali have a lot of Farsi loan words and many prominent Swahili and Coastal Somali families have Persian ancestry, so I suspect that without Arab or even Turkish influence in the region, I suspect that these nations will have stronger Cultural ties to the Iranian empire. And since non-arab Middle Eastern folk aren't as racist as the Arabs, I believe that there will be more intercultural marriage in the region.
Let me adress a little misinformation ur sharing which is "muqdisho was found by persian settlers" well thats unhistorical and its roots go back to an italian scholar called enrico cerulli who apparently saw this on a manuscript called 'kitab al zunuj" which is already discredited by historians and apparently its only him who saw it. Now primary sources like ibn battuta when he visited there he mentioned that the ruler there is local who speak their own language and arabic.
Without the rise of Islam . Christianity would become the major force in Arabia . And in the Middle East . The Jew and other Christian sect were still persecuted by Byzantine . And there was no chance for Jewish state of Israel
No. Zoroastrian could be already the major force in the Gulf region especially Iraq. Christianity do not have much the guts to make Arabia part of their empire or majority religion.
I think the sassanid empire wouldnt collapse .It would take much damage but would still recover like the byzantines.The last king of the sassanid empire was not a child or a usurper.i think he could restore it without the arabs
Good question. I suppose the mistreatment of Jews would still occur in Europe, which may eventuate in the Jews wishing to return to a homeland, then some global colonial power may grant that wish. It's so dependant on so many factors I'm honestly not sure if it would end up happening or not.
Nope because the Jews originally left Philistia in the first place after the Arab invasion which had then changed the name to Filastin (Palestine in English) and the only reason they even returned to their ancestral homeland from Europe was because of their persecution from the Ottomans (also mulims. gotta love islam for how “peaceful” it is) so had this ☪️ancer never existed they would’ve never been thrown out of their ancestral homeland in the first place and have to relocate to Europe, Africa, or even The Americas and everything would’ve been just fine. A holocaust would’ve probably never occurred and The Ottomans would have probably never existed or if they did, they would have probably followed a different religion and never commit the atrocities that they committed. But then again it wouldn’t have mattered because the Jews would have never been in Europe in the first place however this would’ve benefited the Armenian Christians considering there would have never been a genocide there at all. I hope this answers your question. #islamisnotareligionofpeace
What if vedic period in india never ended when woman had better rights than mens and without women decision nothing could have have happened and when maths and space were like games played by all to discover new things .
Even as a Muslims this is a very interesting timeline. Egypt and the Maghreb would become linguistically and culturally diverse with Latin, Greek, Coptic and Berber influence.
I am a VTuber and ASMRtist simp that knew more about geopolitics and not history but i will give a stab here. Without Islam which was responsible for the Islamic Golden Age, the Zoroastrians would already have similarly done this already after they fully invaded the whole Arabia. Because of this the Arabs there wouldn't need Islam as a unifying force anymore and they would be already a Nestorian Christian or Zoroastrian largely because they inherited it from the Greater Sassanian Empire. Spread of Zoroastrianism would be a thing today in Persian Gulf. If there was no Islam the Arabic language would still be spread because there are some non-Islamic empires speaking this language. Arabic language would be eventually divided into a Mediterranean version and a Persian Gulf version so this language would be much more complicated than what it was with Islam. Arab Spring would still happen. No Iran-Iraq war. Saudi Arabia would be secular and they would have less incentives to spread whatever ideology they have. And also without the conservative and strict force of Islam, Andrew Tate would be not much known in social media today and there would be no Zakir Naik nor Osama Bin Laden. Since the Iranians themselves are also protesting against the Shah, the Iranian revolution would still happen but it would be a secular revolution much similar to Portugal, and Iran would already be turned into a secular republic after 1979 and probably no US hostage crisis so relations between the two would be nicer.
It's always fascinating, if Christian Europe remained pretty much one with Christian North Africa and then the religion spreading into West Africa, perhaps in the colonial period West African Kingdoms would have their own colonies and could be seen as equals to European empires.
Either italy would become under control of rome or would indeed fall. I would like the first option for a longer lasting roman identity in italy perhaps making italy a roman state in the modern day. Modern day tunisia would indeed fall again after perhaps a couple hundred years making it an heavily roman influenced state till the modern day. When the ideals of nationalism arrive i can see eastern rome becoming a state like byzantium in aroound 1050 (anatolia greece and modern day bulgaria/macedonia) since these regions would still be heavily greek influenced. egypt and the levant might become independent in the 20/21th century but might also be so heavily integrated after thousands of years that they might as well stay roman. I think in the modern day Rome will either be like rome before justinians conquest or like around the time of basil II conquests. With africa the levant and hopefully italy being still roman or heavily roman influenced states. But hey that is my biased hopeful idea
11:09 they only dominated Ethiopia under Grağn Ahmed for 13 years thanks to Ottoman artillery. Before that Ethiopia had the upper hand for 400 years war. If the Oromo invasion didn't happen Adalites would have been converted with Portuguese help.
I think I mentioned something about Zunists in the video lol. But overall I feel Afghanistan remaining Iranian in culture and being Zoroastrian/Buddhist. The other Stan countries would likely be Zoroastrian, but also if Russia does what it does, I believe the Zoroastrians will be more susceptible to Christianity than the muslims were in our timeline.
@@HistorysInfluence Eastern Afghanistan with Kabul river basin was actually Indian in culture. They were Hindu and Buddhist. Even our Sanskrit language was written in Afghanistan. Many of our pilgrimages existed in Afghanistan. Kandahar or Gandhar is a core part of our religious texts. Ashoka's edicts and idols are frequently found there even today.
OH BOY DO I QUESTION IT.@@elcompagenito3250 i seam to remember looking at history oh wait mexico went from aztec to Spanish to kinda independent to FRENCH puppet to getting ass kicked by texas then won a few battles then got their mestizo assess kicked so hard by the usa 🇺🇸 USA 🇺🇸 that they barely fought back when we took 2/3rds of their land mexico is one of only a few nations that for about 70 to 80% of the existence they been ruled or essentially at the whim and control of a western nation.
nomads accept the religion of islam, but who said they will accept christianity or zoroastranism the same way, moreover they didnt fully assimilate into the culture of the lands they conquered, the ymost of the time adorned it
@@juliuscaesar5397 Atleast its far more superior than having the Middle East and North Africa reputation being recognized as an mostly war and destruction.
for kings and rulers it may be safe, but for science there will be no progress because using the Roman number base it will be very difficult to divide or multiply.😊
You probably didn't watched the video especially from 12:19. If it wasn't for Islam then you won't be writing this nonsense. The first scientist, even according to secular historians, was a Muslim by the name of Hasan ibn Haythem who developed the modern scientific method. During the Golden Age of Islam, Muslims were economically, politically, militarily and technologically far ahead of most of the world whilst Europe was in Dark Age. West has taken a lot from the Muslim world. It was the justice and tolerance of Islam that made science flourish and awoke Europe from Dark Age giving birth to European Renaissance. Professor Thomas Arnold writes that the European Renaissance originated in Islamic Spain: *Muslim Spain had written one of the brightest pages in the history of Medieval Europe. Her influence had passed through Provence into the other countries of Europe, bringing into birth a new poetry and a new culture, and it was from here that Christian scholars received what of Greek philosophy and science they had to stimulate their mental activity up to the time of the Renaissance.* *- The Preaching of Islam: A History of the Propagation of the Muslim Faith by Thomas Arnold, p. 131* Translations of Arabic works on science were made for almost three centuries, starting from the 10th to the 13th century and gradually spread throughout Europe. Professor George Saliba penned a book on this very topic and stated that: *There is hardly a book on Islamic civilization, or on the general history of science, that does not at least pretend to recognize the importance of the Islamic scientific tradition and the role this tradition played in the development of human civilisation in general.* *- George Saliba, Islamic Science and the Making of the European Renaissance, Massachusetts, 2007, p. 1*
@@moizahmed4705 well at first there were many scientists in Asia especially in ancient India thousands of years before Islam was a thing . But your so called morden scientists are just too afraid to admit that. you can google about the scientific discoveries that took place in India Example: plastic surgery, value of pi π And if we talk about Europe it was never a prosperous place to begin with they are where they are because of the wealth they stole from Asia and Africa. The only thing Europeans were ever good at was divid and rule All Islam gave to the world is terrorism and narrow minded mentality (bullshit like flat Earth, 72 hoors) .In 1193, the Nalanda University was destroyed by the Islamic fanatic Bakhtiyar Khilji.Nalanda was the first university ever which had students from around the globe and was a home to 10000 students. Bakhtiyar khilji massacred all students and teachers living there.He wasn't even satisfied with that, then he decided to burn the whole university which burnt the for 3 months ( guess what took this much time to burnt ) 9 million manuscript were burnt which had answers to all the questions which the morden science struggle to deal with. You people follow a man who married a 7 year old girl and had sex with her at the age who 9 (he was in 50s). Believe it or not all three abrahamic religion just spread hate in this world has conducted massacres.while Islam being the best at this job you people are the one's who will lead the world to it's demise.
@@rishabhsharan481 Christianity and Judaism are okay its just Islam that is notorious enough for these atrocities. Christianity has atrocities too, but atleast they have paid reparations or apologized alltogether, meanwhile Islam didnt. As a Muslim its kinda ironic for me.
@@rishabhsharan481 I've referred to Christianity's atrocities and homophobia are already been apologized, while Islam didnt apologized because of Monarchs.
@@eternal_riftz8801 Why should North Africa become Latin . North Africa has it's Afroasiatic Identity and close to the middle East even in the ancient world
What the consequences for north Western Europe, would the western expansion be done by Germanic people five hundred years earlier than in our timeline by Norse and Frisian adventurers seeking for trade and land. Later stiffen by Hanseatic merchants. What would happen withe eastern borders of Scandinavia and Poland?
That would have happened regardless as some other spitiual movement maybe zorastrian preserve it. Nothing to do with just islam. Knowledge and scientific temper is preserved regardless of culture, empires, religions or faith.
The first scientist, even according to secular historians, was a Muslim by the name of Hasan ibn Haythem who developed the modern scientific method. During the Golden Age of Islam, Muslims were economically, politically, militarily and technologically far ahead of most of the world whilst Europe was in Dark Age. West has taken a lot from the Muslim world. It was the justice and tolerance of Islam that made science flourish and awoke Europe from Dark Age giving birth to European Renaissance. Professor Thomas Arnold writes that the European Renaissance originated in Islamic Spain: *Muslim Spain had written one of the brightest pages in the history of Medieval Europe. Her influence had passed through Provence into the other countries of Europe, bringing into birth a new poetry and a new culture, and it was from here that Christian scholars received what of Greek philosophy and science they had to stimulate their mental activity up to the time of the Renaissance.* *- The Preaching of Islam: A History of the Propagation of the Muslim Faith by Thomas Arnold, p. 131* Translations of Arabic works on science were made for almost three centuries, starting from the 10th to the 13th century and gradually spread throughout Europe. Professor George Saliba penned a book on this very topic and stated that: *There is hardly a book on Islamic civilization, or on the general history of science, that does not at least pretend to recognize the importance of the Islamic scientific tradition and the role this tradition played in the development of human civilisation in general.* *- George Saliba, Islamic Science and the Making of the European Renaissance, Massachusetts, 2007, p. 1*
Lol and the muslims have taken that wisdom from india. Not that we are superior but dont try to make islam and islamists as saviours while they are not. Most of the islamic and scientific temper travelled from indian subcontinent to middle east to europe and without islam this process will be better more tolerent, develop more diversity in same thought of hindu budhhist leading to a far better and wiser world.
@@mtk3755 But Islam did saved the world. I understand you don't like to hear this but this is true. Let’s perform a thought experiment: if the Qur’an had never been revealed, then what would be the likely state of the world today? Let’s think this through step by step. From the Qur’an emerged the justice of Islamic law; from that justice came peace and co-existence; with that peaceful co-existence came free intellectual activity in Muslim lands and from this freedom of literacy originate the knowledge that took Europe out of the Dark Ages and ushered in the Renaissance. Thus isn’t it reasonable to conclude that the modern world, with all of its advanced technology like the internet and mobile phones, is a direct consequence of the revelation of the Qur’an? What Muslims did was gather knowledge from around the world because you don't start from scratch but build upon what you already know. Without Islam you would have a caste system in India where only Brahmins can study and become scholars. By contrast, Islam brought justice to the world and ended racial prejudice and discrimination. Islam created a tolerant environment where everyone could engage in intellectual activity regardless of their race or religion. It’s no wonder that British historian Professor Arnold J. Toynbee wrote: *“The extinction of race consciousness as between Muslims is one of the outstanding moral achievements of Islam, and in the contemporary world there is, as it happens, a crying need for the propagation of this Islamic virtue.”* *- Civilization On Trial, New York, 1948, p. 205* A good example of this is the Jewish Golden Age in Islamic Spain i.e Andalus. Zion Zohar, a Jewish American historian, summarised the benefits Jews reaped from the Muslim protection as follows: *Born during this era of Islamic rule, the famous Golden Age of Spanish Jewry (circa 900-1200) produced such luminaries as: statesman and diplomat Hasdai ibn Shaprut, vizier and army commander Shmuel ha-Nagid, poet-philosophers Solomon Ibn Gabriol and Judah Halevi, and at the apex of them all, Moses Ben Maimon, also known among the Spaniards as Maimonides.* *- Zion Zohar, Sephardic & Mizrahi Jewry, New York, 2005, pp. 9* Heinrich Graetz, a 19th century Jewish historian expressed similar sentiments regarding Islamic rule: *It was in these favourable circumstances that the Spanish Jews came under the rule of Mahometans [Muslims], as whose allies they esteemed themselves the equals of their co-religionists in Babylonia and Persia. They were kindly treated, obtained religious liberty, of which they had so long been deprived, were permitted to exercise jurisdiction over their co-religionists, and were only obliged, like the conquered Christians, to pay poll tax…* *- H. Graetz, History of the Jews, London, 1892, vol. 3, p. 112*
@@robertozeladarodriguez5321 simple; no sharia law, the world would have been the same as today except we'll be all liberal sooner with no need for civil rights movement and lastly terrorist elements would have been minimally or less brutal as isis and al qaeda would have not been form in shape despite saudi arabia present in this modern world without islam. but even if without islam there would still be terrorism like what ive said and even the refugee crisis, so the white terrorists/supremacists would have to look for something else to attack. as for the islamic golden age, it would still be there under a different disguise and under the zoroastrians, so renaissance will still be there at a early time. america would still be earlier discovered despite the lack of islam, because the vikings predated it before colonial powers even stepped in.
This video pretty much is very similar for my timeline called heirs of Heraclius the berbers conquer North africa and italy would get lost but imo that would take much longer Constans II in his italian invasion of 663 when the empire was gutted nearly took the capital benevento had not freed a captive if Constans II is invading with the whole east its likely a lot if not all of italy falls under his rule since unlike the ostrogths the lombards were very divided, the Balkans 100% would be more orthodox i disagree with Bulgaria the first khan and Tervel were great rulers and early Bulgaria had both lands above and in the danube river so I chose that Bulgaria still exist its just now its center of power is Walachia I also disagree with iberia Tariq only had about 12,000 men he destroyed the flower of visigothic nobility in guadalate the earlier Mauro-Roman Kingdom was able to challenge Byzantine armies and if the berbers take the entire province they more then capable of delivering the same blow tariq did
Yes, khawarizli who invented algebra, and the Muslim scientists 1400 years ago has practiced mathematics and science, as a well as medication, if your think this is wrong, then search in google
@@maesizmayonnaise2745hijab isn't normal more than 1 woman isn't normal, islamic dictatorship is not normal persecuting Christians is not normal, Aisha 6 years old married IS NOT NORMAL easy to explaind the state must be secular.
This cant be real because the first muslim (monotheis that believe in god) is adam (the first modern human), from youtube comment you see they dont understand islam they think islam start from muhammad but its not, so technically without islam modern human never exist, we not gonna exist
The Renaissance was mostly due to Mongol invasion related spillover. Even if Islam never existed renaissance would have been inevitable in the early years because of many outside factors, including the heavy incompetencies and instability of Islamic Golden Age.
We Muslim have it forbidden to kill, those terrorists always blame on Islam or they are drunk, we never meant harm to anyone, if Islam was all about terrorism, them why does my country have several Christian and Jewish tourists, I know your pain, I feel bad for your family but all the terrorism you seen from Islam was a lie, if we were terrorist then why didn't we have bombs and weapons back then? It says in the Quran: Sahih International: [ 5 : 32 ] Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.
If Islam never existed then a lot of knowledge especially in Medical would exist now. Mine ancestors were expert in Medicines and science. Most probably they had treatment of those diseases too which we are suffering from now. Whenever I reads about Islamic Invasion then its full of destruction. Many universities and libraries were only burned down because they had more knowledge then their Islamic Doctors, simply in jealousy. Also I won't get disturbed while watching about Islamic Invasions cuz Islam never existed.
the mongols actually burned down universities and libraries, do ur research please. It is thanks to us that you have Numbers like 123, Mathematic formulas, the idea of a camera, Chemistry, Soap and many things about astronomy and space there's actually a lot of knowledge that the bloody west uses thanks to us you're just trying to make us look bad
@@SamirZeGeeklies. Islam didnt have the guts to invent anything . doesnt mean Islam not existing doesnt mean the inventions wouldnt exist. stop being such a fcking rationalist claiming your correct
@@rickyyacine4818baghdad never stole knowledge but they collect all the knowledge and trying to improve and create new invention with religious motivation to improve human life
Let me give you a reality check. Only a century after the advent of Islam the Middle East flourished into what historians call the "Golden Age of Islam" when Muslims were economically, politically, militarily and technologically far ahead of most of the world whilst Europe was in Dark Age. West has taken a lot from the Muslim world. It was the justice and tolerance of Islam that made science flourish and awoke Europe from Dark Age giving birth to European Renaissance. Professor Thomas Arnold writes that the European Renaissance originated in Islamic Spain: *Muslim Spain had written one of the brightest pages in the history of Medieval Europe. Her influence had passed through Provence into the other countries of Europe, bringing into birth a new poetry and a new culture, and it was from here that Christian scholars received what of Greek philosophy and science they had to stimulate their mental activity up to the time of the Renaissance.* *- The Preaching of Islam: A History of the Propagation of the Muslim Faith by Thomas Arnold, p. 131* Translations of Arabic works on science were made for almost three centuries, starting from the 10th to the 13th century and gradually spread throughout Europe. Professor George Saliba penned a book on this very topic and stated that: *There is hardly a book on Islamic civilization, or on the general history of science, that does not at least pretend to recognize the importance of the Islamic scientific tradition and the role this tradition played in the development of human civilisation in general.* *- George Saliba, Islamic Science and the Making of the European Renaissance, Massachusetts, 2007, p. 1*
Wish we were stuck in it was so much more advanced than what ever the hell is happening now with different infidel ideologies and laws being decided by idiots.
@@P1utia Not necessarily there were also Arabs and Spanish but they were all Muslims. There is a reason why this period is called the "Golden Age of Islam" by historians.
![Eminem - Fuel (Shady Edition) feat. Westside Boogie & GRIP [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/k1OquBida9s/mqdefault.jpg)
Be sure to leave any constructive criticism, positive feedback or video ideas. Tried a couple of new things in this video. I'm planning on making videos on a more consistent point moving forward.
Maybe you could add some of your own maps into the videos? It'd help the audience to better comprehend the changes that have happened, and it's also a chance to put more personality into your video
@@noelle036 I'll be including more maps in future videos, you're right they do improve the quality of the videos. I felt how I wrote the script for this one didn't really accommodate for the use of maps,.
0:27 "The religious movement that Muhammad had began..." (had BEGUN! It's a past participle, not simple past. We say begin, began, has begun, had begun. Some patterns are stranger like I run, I ran, I have run, I had run. It seems to go back to the present tense but it really didn't.)
i would only have to disagree with italy in the olt in 663 Constans nearly conquered beveneto with an actual empire the south most likely falls and Constans II migth be able to retake the peninsula
@@HistorysInfluence Please I just watched the video and it didn't focus on Africa much particularly West Africa. Please comment. I want to hear your thoughts on this. Personally I think West Africa would've been Catholic and more Western.
Without the Muslims in iberia, the Spanish language would be different and colonialism would be much less harsh to the natives, meaning natives would have more power
Good point, without the harshness of the Reconquista Spanish culture would be noticeably different from our own timeline, and the structure of the society too, as it won't be one built from reconquest.
Interesting point of view. Late Medieval Spain definitely had an expansionist mentality due to its gradual emergence from the centuries of war that were the Reconquista. That mentality did much to fuel its aggressive expansion and colonization of the New World. So if the Spanish and Portuguese were never conquered by the Moors in the seventh century and were just mostly left in peace throughout the Middle Ages (with the Pyrenees Mountains being a great natural barrier to any attacks from the French side), then they would have either colonized the New World more peacefully and gradually OR some other European power would have done so instead. So maybe Latin America would be speaking French, English or Dutch instead of Spanish and Portuguese.
@@HistorysInfluence Yes.
The Aztecs nearly beat the Spanish in our timeline.
In fact Cortez was under strict orders by the Queen to NOT strike at kings (to the point where he had to burn down his own ships to force other Spaniards to fight for him).
Meaning, without the Spanish setting a precedent, expect cultures like the Mayans, Aztecs, and Incas to survive much better.
Yes but they would still die due to diseases like chickenpox Spanishpox (dunno heard that term somewhere) And influenza as they had basically NO defense against those viruses and one big enough spark of it could wipe out entire populations
Hmmm yes, blame genocides done by Christian to muslim. Yea this is totally logical 😂
A united Christianism, under the influence of the Byzantine Empire (because the Franks didn't got so powerful to be proclaimed Holy Roman Emperor and then no schism), a beautiful Visigothic Iberia, and the most important, perhaps a Latin North Africa, a romance language that was murdered before birth, along with a Zoroastrian and stronger Iran.
Perfecto.
@@theveryproudmoroccan2834 I prefer our North African Maghrebi Arabiain
لهجتنا المغاربية وحدها 🇹🇳🌹🇲🇦🇩🇿🇲🇷🇱🇾
@@theveryproudmoroccan2834 giga Byzantine 😯😯😯
You forgot about Amazigh (berber), the native language of the Maghreb, it would've been much more alive and still the majority language there while north African romance to a lesser degree, most likely being a prestigious language spoken by the upper class similar to french in north Africa nowadays.
@@bumblebee777 true 👌
Great video! Glad to see more content from you.
Thanks Neatling, I really appreciate the support from your channel.
No
No
No
Nope
Interesting video, however from what I know Persia was seeing considerate amount of Christian growth that the Persians were trying to suppress, so I think It's equally likely that Persian could become Christian, though perhaps Nestorian instead and becoming the main power center for that faith to project influence outward, the Nestorian faith would take the place of Islam in the Region.
Edit: Also I'd like to see your take on cody's "What if North and South America were never connected?" What if, perhaps with more of a focus on possibilities for South American nations. Also perhaps at somepoint you could make videos involving multiple what ifs, Like combining "What if gunpowder never existed/was invented later", "What if North and South America were never connected", and What if Humans never migrated to the Americas?"(minus any colonial era stuff)/"What if the Bering Strait never existed?", though maybe more what if humans never crossed it as horses came from North America and that would change too much. I just think that scenario could make for a interesting "Humans vs Monsters" world, sorta like that Monster Hunter Game series, but less Fantastical and possibly only occurring for a century or two.
Might be true on the Nestorian point, from what I was aware of tho was that it was just a Mesopotamia focused thing (which was the location of their capital to be fair). Regarding the other ideas you've mentioned, I have a bit of a fascinatiion with Human pre-history so a Bering Straight concept or something along those lines would be interesting.
@@HistorysInfluence Alright, Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah, I would love to see something like that. Also Altas pro's video on "Lost continents" might be a good source of inspiration for such what ifs too
Aramaic, Coptic and North African Latin survives. A blessed timeline.
I prefer our North African Maghrebi Arabiain
لهجتنا المغاربية وحدها 🇹🇳🌹🇲🇦🇩🇿🇲🇷🇱🇾
@@malekaltayari3936 cringe
Sure is!
@@malekaltayari3936 berber nationality yes but not muslim
@@malekaltayari3936no! I prefer Punic
I would like to see "what if Grand Colombia stayed united and became a great power" also love the videos!
Cool ideA
SIII!!! 🇨🇴
i do think it was likely Persia would be at least partially Christianized in this timeline, the Church of the East was steadly growing there before Islam came along, late Sassanian emperors were getting closer to the Christian communities and intermarrying, and the last persons to claim the Sassanian thrones, in exile under Chinese protection, were Christians themselves.
I feel like Orthodox Christianity would get the hate that Islam gets today.
Christianity doesn't completely replace Islam in this time line so no, yes countries like Egypt Syria Lebanon Jordan and Palestine would be christian countries but countries like Indonesia would probably be Buddhist and countries like Pakistan would probably be hindu, countries like Iraq and Iran
@@peace2033 okay, 1st its Isreal not Palestine according to un, ik its also called palatine. 2nd yes, The middle east was full of Aramaic speakers before some genocide, they got converted to Christianity MANY MANY MANY years ago, like before Islam, referring to 4:33. I personally am a Chaldean, I speak Aramaic, bla bla bla... anyway im from Iraq and if Islam never existed Iraq would have a majority of people in the Catholic Church of the East. baseicly the whole middle east that isn't Persians would have religions from the past before the islamic people screwed things up. Like the people from Yemen and Oman weren't even that arab believe it or not, and Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, those places weren't arab, some Lebanese dont even consider themselves Arab. that place was once a place where earlier Semitic people thrived. Now The other countries like Indonesia and Pakistan and etc. yeah they would probably be Hindu or Buddhist. I just wanted to let you know from a person middle east decent. p.s Jesus spoke Aramaic 🤯
oh cant forget about Hebrew and Jewish they would be more there because the Arab's wouldn't "threaten them" and the People ruling the area would be Assyrians, Decedents of the Neo Babylonians and etc. Jewish and Christianity only have differences regarding the new testament and Jesus, including more, too many to list. It is possible the "Aramaic's" I'm gonna say for now might've not liked the Jewish, Forcing the Jewish to leave, and if Hitler did what he did, well then :/ oops, he he 😓 I pray for the people in that terrible event..
@@SuperPro0910 I think Lebanon and Syria would still be speaking Arab even if they are not concidered Arab because of the Ottomans mixing it up.
You mean Catholicism? Because there would be no Eastern Orthodoxy.
The whole video is great and I loved that you mentioned Ethiopia. You sir deserve more subscribers.
Hope you make more videos on Africa.
I wish I could’ve seen a country with majority Aramaic speaking ❤
Asuxm empire was ethnically diverse plus you would’ve anyways have a ethnic diverse country no matter what
This channel is so freaking underrated.
Only just discovered your channel, but already loving you man! Choosing the exact period pieces and what if's that i'm interested in! Love it
This is an excellent video.
Many millions of deaths averted.
India would have far fewer invasions..
No Armenian Genocide.
Zoroastrianism a major world religion.
What about Mansa Musa? If he and his kingdom were Christian, would he do a tour of the Five Christian Patriarchates?
Cheers. Good question on Mansu Musa. The butterfly effect part of me wants to say he would never exist, but if he did, perhaps Christian influences spreading from North Africa to the West Africa region would cause such a man to go on the holy Pilgrimage you described.
Take me to that world. I would rather live there.
In alternative world there's some person in that world Would want to say the same thing as you and want to live in this world
@@hornerfarah2282 no
I agree Adam.
@@peace2033 how you know that ?? You people are just delusional
@@hornerfarah2282 who would rather live in a world where a cult destroyed the middle east and is currently destroying the west?
I think orthodox Christians would be the ones getting all the hate from the western Europeans and and n/s americans instead of Islam, and therefore the other subdivisions of Christianity would be considered more distant from each other.
So basically Christianity would be more divided
I think that would make sense, a Byzantine/Neo-Byzantine + Orthodox Slavs vs Western Europe type situation. I think whatifalthist's Islam video had that type of concept in it.
@@HistorysInfluence His video on what if the Byzantines survived was also similar in that regard
Christianity doesn't completely replace Islam in this time line so no, yes countries like Egypt Syria Lebanon Jordan and Palestine would be christian countries but countries like Indonesia would probably be Buddhist and countries like Pakistan would probably be hindu, countries like Iraq and Iran would be zondarantist, and countries like Saudi Arabia would be hanif.
@@peace2033 arabia was pagan at the time when Islam came not hanif.
Very very small minority were hanifs at the time if at all.
I doubt we would've had a schism if islam didn't exist
Billions more souls brought to Christ
Truly a blessed timeline
@The Yugoslavian they believe He was but a man, that He was not God, nor did He bring salvation to humanity through His sacrifice.
Thus they are lost.
@The Yugoslavian by definition a pagan is someone who is not a Christian, Jew or Muslim, your comment makes no sense.
Personally I believe most Modern faiths come from god in some form, just made for different peoples, times, and places. Though, ff the same is true for Hinduism for example, it's likely that it's just been distorted over 1000s of years.
I don't think God would Dam Billions to hell just for not being aware of his exist or his teachings, and/or being taught overwise. That isn't exactly fair, and God IS fair, so it must be true that the rules for going to heaven or hell are a lot less restricted, or at the very least based on someone's intentions and actions.
For example, who do you think should go to heaven? a Malicious person who happens to be a Christian? or a Muslim who has done righteous things such as help people avoid sin and help those in need?
@@wires-sl7gs Read David Bentley Harts book "All shall be saved"
DEUS VAULT DEUS VAULT
I’m a little late since I just found this channel so I don’t know if anyone will read this but in regards to the House of Wisdom in Baghdad; from what I understand the Sassanid Shah Khosrow II built a massive library in Ctesiphon that was destroyed by the Arabs when they conquered the region. So the passing on of certain literary works would have likely continued
That's a good point I didn't consider. I knew generally the arabs were continuing the work of the Persians, but not about that actual library in particular.
And Gondi/jondi Shapur University
Ironically, this makes me even more interested in Islamic history.
It did the same for me as well lol
Great book on the Sassanid/Byzantine war by James Howard-Johnston that goes into great detail on why this debilitating war happened. Could imagine Wahl-lid being a Byzantine calvary commander. Man should be a top 5-10 greatest general of antiquity. Curious if the Seljuks would still migrate to the Middle East possibly be part of the Sassanids if they were still around converting to Zoroaster. That would be pretty impactful if they were used against the ERE.
No offense and I do extremely love ur videos but it seems like the strength of the medieval Roman Empire is underestimated here.
1. While Berbers pose a constant threat in North Africa, there's a small chance that they could have conquered it as it's an important source of grain for the western provinces of the byzantine empire. This goes to the following point 2. majority of Italy would have remained in the empire because of the existence of Carthage. Italian urban centers would recover in 100 years and the western provinces would be back as a profitable area where resources and men can be mustered to reconquer most of Italy. In our timeline, the Byzantine hold on southern Italy even if those provinces were not profitable but in this timeline, the empire is 4x richer, and unless there's a great conqueror from the North, it's almost impossible to envision an Italy without the Empire in this timeline, while conceding that Northern Italy may remain to barbarians polities like the franks or the Lombard but heavily influenced by Byzantium.
2. The Empire would certainly last up to the modern-day without Islam. Imagine Turkey but on steroids. Sure Egypt and the Levant after a few hundred years probably around the 1100s or 1200s because of religious difference with Orthodox but it would only mean that the Roman Empire again is divided, this time between North and South based on Constantinople and Alexandria. Also, the Copts as an entity are almost gone by around 500s. Most of the people in Egypt even copts do consider themselves as Romans. Only by the Islamic occupation did the Copts begin to reinvigorate their identity, but in this timeline without Islam, Egypt will be thoroughly Romanised. Just check out Dr. Bolman's interview: ruclips.net/video/oMIwE3DoU3U/видео.html
"Turkey but on steroids" bruh Greece would remain closely the same, The nomad empires would still take Anatolia, no empire remains forever, neither do borders, islam or not the Turks, Mongols and Tatars have to settle somewhere eventually
@@aintankha6617 But if they adapt the same religion with the Byzantines they would also eventually also adapt their culture
Another thing that could be mentioned is that without Islam, the Golden Horde would most likely convert to Orthodox Christianity and assimilate to the local Russian culture. This would mean that this timeline's Russia would be less authoritarian and have more democratic tendencies
If we didn't exist maybe something else other than democracy might come instead in minds of these weirdos in europe, if we didn't exist it would be such a big change that many things would be different that it may lead to no democracy for instance being preferred system in much of europe.
Didn't the Mongols also conquer China? What if a part of the group that becomes the Golden Horde converted to either Orthodoxy and Manichaeism?
How exactly does the conversion of the Golden Horde to Orthodoxy make Russia more democratic?
But fortunately with the will and grace of God, Islam exists and shines bright here on earth.
Barakallahu lii walakom
Say unfortunately it kills disbelievers and abuses women
@@Ayushgraphy yep... You are what I consider an IQ drop alert.
@@mujwardakyou are also the low iq not only them. afterall the caliphates were just dying anyways like the ussr.
@@Ayushgraphyoh shut up man this is nonsense
@@Ayushgraphy oh how much I enjoy the notion that the mere existence of Islam hurt the egos of people like you. You have a lot on us to prove to you, whereas we have no obligations to prove our principles to you. Lol literally none what so ever...
We're not seeing Baldwin IV & Salahuddin friendship in this alternate timeline
Surely the worst timeline
@HistorysInfluence because both Christianity and Islam are having a big influence to our world today
Oh btw can you make a video what if South Korea wins the Korean War?
The city of Babylon will also likely survive to the present, also Arabia will be split with a Christian West, Zoroastrian East, and Jewish South.
Not to mention there will be less slave trade. As the church tries to stamp out slavery, without Islam endorsing slavery, perhaps European and African nations might flourish better as there are more local populations not enslaved & sold away to some Arabian desert.
This also depends a lot on how far Christianity has spread into Africa by the time colonialism comes around. In this scenario it is assumed that colonialism takes place at a later date. By this point the West Africa coastal tribes may have adopted Christianity which makes it harder for Europeans to justify slavery since they are enslaving a fellow believer.
Yeah right 😂😂😂
@@justus4341Nah, i'd argue it would still happen earlier at some point. Since Islamic caliphates and sultanates disrupted the process of colonization anyways and usually collapses and dies eventually whenever its weakened. The problem isnt about Islam but geopolitics is one of the common problem without this religion, since there would be big changes on this instead on the history.
Islam and any religion never endorse slavery, what you talking about is culture and the thing that human made
@@Aripuni1 u drunk?
Great video long time no see
Well done!
Great video, thanks a lot. I think it would be better and more advanced world(specially in the field of science) and eventually Persian and Roman enmity would be replaced by friendship or at least they tried to cooperate with eachother in limited subjects. Turks may convert to Zoroastrianism, Buddhism and Christianity. It would be much better world for Iran
Coastal Somalis, the Oromo, and the Swahili city states might develop their own sect of Zoroastrianism in this alternate universe because they had strong ties to Iran. The city of Mogadishu (the Somali capital) was founded by Persian settlers and it even has a Persian name, both Swahili and Somali have a lot of Farsi loan words and many prominent Swahili and Coastal Somali families have Persian ancestry, so I suspect that without Arab or even Turkish influence in the region, I suspect that these nations will have stronger Cultural ties to the Iranian empire. And since non-arab Middle Eastern folk aren't as racist as the Arabs, I believe that there will be more intercultural marriage in the region.
Let me adress a little misinformation ur sharing which is "muqdisho was found by persian settlers" well thats unhistorical and its roots go back to an italian scholar called enrico cerulli who apparently saw this on a manuscript called 'kitab al zunuj" which is already discredited by historians and apparently its only him who saw it. Now primary sources like ibn battuta when he visited there he mentioned that the ruler there is local who speak their own language and arabic.
The good time line. Greater isn't stays Zoroastrian, Egypt stays egyptian, India never splits into 2, Anatolia stays Greek
Your channel is very good, it's a pity it hasn't been discovered by more people. Things like "monsieur z" are a shame
Great video
Thank you for the support, I appreciate it.
Just reminds you how crazy the middle ages were, one determined man could change world history so much, without barely comprehending it
The world, especially the middle east, would have been a way better place with probably no terrorist groups
6:20 I highly doubt that because before schism Croatia had special relationship with Pope and thoughout all history were loyal to Holy See
exactly
What is your alphabet called?
@@Zeyede_Seyum glagolitic
Without the rise of Islam . Christianity would become the major force in Arabia . And in the Middle East . The Jew and other Christian sect were still persecuted by Byzantine . And there was no chance for Jewish state of Israel
No. Zoroastrian could be already the major force in the Gulf region especially Iraq. Christianity do not have much the guts to make Arabia part of their empire or majority religion.
@P1utia Christianity naturally spreads, it was doing so in Persia before the Islamic conquests
I think the Sassanids may be replaced by the Dabuyid Empire or a second Parthian Empire, also a Turkic Empire could end up taking over.
I think the sassanid empire wouldnt collapse .It would take much damage but would still recover like the byzantines.The last king of the sassanid empire was not a child or a usurper.i think he could restore it without the arabs
The West would still be Aztec and other tribes
Typical naivetes
Great video! But I have a question, would Israel still exist in this timeline?
Good question. I suppose the mistreatment of Jews would still occur in Europe, which may eventuate in the Jews wishing to return to a homeland, then some global colonial power may grant that wish. It's so dependant on so many factors I'm honestly not sure if it would end up happening or not.
@@HistorysInfluence okay👍
Nope because the Jews originally left Philistia in the first place after the Arab invasion which had then changed the name to Filastin (Palestine in English) and the only reason they even returned to their ancestral homeland from Europe was because of their persecution from the Ottomans (also mulims. gotta love islam for how “peaceful” it is) so had this ☪️ancer never existed they would’ve never been thrown out of their ancestral homeland in the first place and have to relocate to Europe, Africa, or even The Americas and everything would’ve been just fine. A holocaust would’ve probably never occurred and The Ottomans would have probably never existed or if they did, they would have probably followed a different religion and never commit the atrocities that they committed. But then again it wouldn’t have mattered because the Jews would have never been in Europe in the first place however this would’ve benefited the Armenian Christians considering there would have never been a genocide there at all. I hope this answers your question. #islamisnotareligionofpeace
@@o.s.a.5637 you are in a way similar to Donald Trump, in that nothing you’ve said is true
Good!
What if vedic period in india never ended when woman had better rights than mens and without women decision nothing could have have happened and when maths and space were like games played by all to discover new things .
Thanks for mentioning *Ethiopia*
Even as a Muslims this is a very interesting timeline. Egypt and the Maghreb would become linguistically and culturally diverse with Latin, Greek, Coptic and Berber influence.
I am a VTuber and ASMRtist simp that knew more about geopolitics and not history but i will give a stab here.
Without Islam which was responsible for the Islamic Golden Age, the Zoroastrians would already have similarly done this already after they fully invaded the whole Arabia. Because of this the Arabs there wouldn't need Islam as a unifying force anymore and they would be already a Nestorian Christian or Zoroastrian largely because they inherited it from the Greater Sassanian Empire. Spread of Zoroastrianism would be a thing today in Persian Gulf.
If there was no Islam the Arabic language would still be spread because there are some non-Islamic empires speaking this language. Arabic language would be eventually divided into a Mediterranean version and a Persian Gulf version so this language would be much more complicated than what it was with Islam. Arab Spring would still happen. No Iran-Iraq war. Saudi Arabia would be secular and they would have less incentives to spread whatever ideology they have. And also without the conservative and strict force of Islam, Andrew Tate would be not much known in social media today and there would be no Zakir Naik nor Osama Bin Laden.
Since the Iranians themselves are also protesting against the Shah, the Iranian revolution would still happen but it would be a secular revolution much similar to Portugal, and Iran would already be turned into a secular republic after 1979 and probably no US hostage crisis so relations between the two would be nicer.
It's always fascinating, if Christian Europe remained pretty much one with Christian North Africa and then the religion spreading into West Africa, perhaps in the colonial period West African Kingdoms would have their own colonies and could be seen as equals to European empires.
best timeline
.Thank JESUS.
Nice video 👍
Either italy would become under control of rome or would indeed fall. I would like the first option for a longer lasting roman identity in italy perhaps making italy a roman state in the modern day. Modern day tunisia would indeed fall again after perhaps a couple hundred years making it an heavily roman influenced state till the modern day. When the ideals of nationalism arrive i can see eastern rome becoming a state like byzantium in aroound 1050 (anatolia greece and modern day bulgaria/macedonia) since these regions would still be heavily greek influenced. egypt and the levant might become independent in the 20/21th century but might also be so heavily integrated after thousands of years that they might as well stay roman. I think in the modern day Rome will either be like rome before justinians conquest or like around the time of basil II conquests. With africa the levant and hopefully italy being still roman or heavily roman influenced states. But hey that is my biased hopeful idea
11:09 they only dominated Ethiopia under Grağn Ahmed for 13 years thanks to Ottoman artillery. Before that Ethiopia had the upper hand for 400 years war.
If the Oromo invasion didn't happen Adalites would have been converted with Portuguese help.
What’s the fate of Central Asia and Afghanistan?
I think I mentioned something about Zunists in the video lol. But overall I feel Afghanistan remaining Iranian in culture and being Zoroastrian/Buddhist. The other Stan countries would likely be Zoroastrian, but also if Russia does what it does, I believe the Zoroastrians will be more susceptible to Christianity than the muslims were in our timeline.
@@HistorysInfluence interesting, thank you. I’m looking forward to later content.
@@HistorysInfluence Eastern Afghanistan with Kabul river basin was actually Indian in culture. They were Hindu and Buddhist. Even our Sanskrit language was written in Afghanistan. Many of our pilgrimages existed in Afghanistan. Kandahar or Gandhar is a core part of our religious texts. Ashoka's edicts and idols are frequently found there even today.
Manichaeism
What if the Byzantine empire was socialist?
What if the USSR never collapsed?
Awesome video.
Hey can you make "what if Mexico won the Mexican-American war?"
Also love the videos.
WHEN SOMEONE SAYS SOMETHING AGAINST GREATEST POWER IN THE PRIME OF MANKIND burn thee for heracy.
@@JTL1776 those thou question the power of mexico
OH BOY DO I QUESTION IT.@@elcompagenito3250 i seam to remember looking at history oh wait mexico went from aztec to Spanish to kinda independent to FRENCH puppet to getting ass kicked by texas then won a few battles then got their mestizo assess kicked so hard by the usa 🇺🇸 USA 🇺🇸 that they barely fought back when we took 2/3rds of their land mexico is one of only a few nations that for about 70 to 80% of the existence they been ruled or essentially at the whim and control of a western nation.
@@JTL1776 you know what, you have a point there pall
Why this video is great!
I want to see a video that what if the confederacy won the civil war.
Thanks man. I will definitely be doing a confederate victory alternate history.
@@HistorysInfluence Oh really?! What a coincidence. I want to see it very soon. :)
khalid ibn alwalid before converting planned to join the byzantine army the only guy to the defeat the early muslims
Did u know that kalid nearly killed Muhammad at the battle of ohod
nomads accept the religion of islam, but who said they will accept christianity or zoroastranism the same way, moreover they didnt fully assimilate into the culture of the lands they conquered, the ymost of the time adorned it
Far worse. Idolatry would run rampant throughout the Middle East.
Not necessarily they would still be like that in the modern world and etc.
@@P1utia Christianity is pretty idolatrous, and atheism denies belief in God.
@@juliuscaesar5397 Atleast its far more superior than having the Middle East and North Africa reputation being recognized as an mostly war and destruction.
for kings and rulers it may be safe, but for science there will be no progress because using the Roman number base it will be very difficult to divide or multiply.😊
The world would have been 100 times more peaceful and developed
You probably didn't watched the video especially from 12:19. If it wasn't for Islam then you won't be writing this nonsense.
The first scientist, even according to secular historians, was a Muslim by the name of Hasan ibn Haythem who developed the modern scientific method. During the Golden Age of Islam, Muslims were economically, politically, militarily and technologically far ahead of most of the world whilst Europe was in Dark Age.
West has taken a lot from the Muslim world. It was the justice and tolerance of Islam that made science flourish and awoke Europe from Dark Age giving birth to European Renaissance.
Professor Thomas Arnold writes that the European Renaissance originated in Islamic Spain:
*Muslim Spain had written one of the brightest pages in the history of Medieval Europe. Her influence had passed through Provence into the other countries of Europe, bringing into birth a new poetry and a new culture, and it was from here that Christian scholars received what of Greek philosophy and science they had to stimulate their mental activity up to the time of the Renaissance.*
*- The Preaching of Islam: A History of the Propagation of the Muslim Faith by Thomas Arnold, p. 131*
Translations of Arabic works on science were made for almost three centuries, starting from the 10th to the 13th century and gradually spread throughout Europe.
Professor George Saliba penned a book on this very topic and stated that:
*There is hardly a book on Islamic civilization, or on the general history of science, that does not at least pretend to recognize the importance of the Islamic scientific tradition and the role this tradition played in the development of human civilisation in general.*
*- George Saliba, Islamic Science and the Making of the European Renaissance, Massachusetts, 2007, p. 1*
@@moizahmed4705 well at first there were many scientists in Asia especially in ancient India thousands of years before Islam was a thing . But your so called morden scientists are just too afraid to admit that. you can google about the scientific discoveries that took place in India
Example: plastic surgery, value of pi π
And if we talk about Europe it was never a prosperous place to begin with they are where they are because of the wealth they stole from Asia and Africa. The only thing Europeans were ever good at was divid and rule
All Islam gave to the world is terrorism and narrow minded mentality (bullshit like flat Earth, 72 hoors) .In 1193, the Nalanda University was destroyed by the Islamic fanatic Bakhtiyar Khilji.Nalanda was the first university ever which had students from around the globe and was a home to 10000 students. Bakhtiyar khilji massacred all students and teachers living there.He wasn't even satisfied with that, then he decided to burn the whole university which burnt the for 3 months ( guess what took this much time to burnt ) 9 million manuscript were burnt which had answers to all the questions which the morden science struggle to deal with.
You people follow a man who married a 7 year old girl and had sex with her at the age who 9 (he was in 50s). Believe it or not all three abrahamic religion just spread hate in this world has conducted massacres.while Islam being the best at this job you people are the one's who will lead the world to it's demise.
@@rishabhsharan481 Christianity and Judaism are okay its just Islam that is notorious enough for these atrocities. Christianity has atrocities too, but atleast they have paid reparations or apologized alltogether, meanwhile Islam didnt. As a Muslim its kinda ironic for me.
@@P1utia what are you trying to say please elaborate.
@@rishabhsharan481 I've referred to Christianity's atrocities and homophobia are already been apologized, while Islam didnt apologized because of Monarchs.
Thanks good he is excited from Tunisia 🇹🇳🌹 and saved us in north Africa from the Latin language
لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله 🌹 ☪️🌹
You would have said the same thing if north Africa didn't get conquered by arabs
@@eternal_riftz8801 Why should North Africa become Latin . North Africa has it's Afroasiatic Identity and close to the middle East even in the ancient world
@@malekaltayari3936 why latin invade Africa u wrong boy
What the consequences for north Western Europe, would the western expansion be done by Germanic people five hundred years earlier than in our timeline by Norse and Frisian adventurers seeking for trade and land. Later stiffen by Hanseatic merchants.
What would happen withe eastern borders of Scandinavia and Poland?
One hand hand golden age of islam preserved many ancient discoveries and lead to european resseisance.
Its not the Islam golden age, its Persian Golden Age for god's sake
@@P1utia Abbasid are not Persian
@@P1utiapershit don’t even have a country though 😂😂😂
@@AL_AFGHANI1Bro stop being such a pro-OIC idiot. There are already Persian empires prior to the caliphates growing.
That would have happened regardless as some other spitiual movement maybe zorastrian preserve it. Nothing to do with just islam. Knowledge and scientific temper is preserved regardless of culture, empires, religions or faith.
Would like to see see what if the British would not have use her army to abolish slavery and create the West African Brigade.
The first scientist, even according to secular historians, was a Muslim by the name of Hasan ibn Haythem who developed the modern scientific method. During the Golden Age of Islam, Muslims were economically, politically, militarily and technologically far ahead of most of the world whilst Europe was in Dark Age.
West has taken a lot from the Muslim world. It was the justice and tolerance of Islam that made science flourish and awoke Europe from Dark Age giving birth to European Renaissance.
Professor Thomas Arnold writes that the European Renaissance originated in Islamic Spain:
*Muslim Spain had written one of the brightest pages in the history of Medieval Europe. Her influence had passed through Provence into the other countries of Europe, bringing into birth a new poetry and a new culture, and it was from here that Christian scholars received what of Greek philosophy and science they had to stimulate their mental activity up to the time of the Renaissance.*
*- The Preaching of Islam: A History of the Propagation of the Muslim Faith by Thomas Arnold, p. 131*
Translations of Arabic works on science were made for almost three centuries, starting from the 10th to the 13th century and gradually spread throughout Europe.
Professor George Saliba penned a book on this very topic and stated that:
*There is hardly a book on Islamic civilization, or on the general history of science, that does not at least pretend to recognize the importance of the Islamic scientific tradition and the role this tradition played in the development of human civilisation in general.*
*- George Saliba, Islamic Science and the Making of the European Renaissance, Massachusetts, 2007, p. 1*
so, we ignoring all the other atrocities they did or?
@redcrown5154 dude look at the atrocities that the russia s are doing right now?
Lol and the muslims have taken that wisdom from india. Not that we are superior but dont try to make islam and islamists as saviours while they are not. Most of the islamic and scientific temper travelled from indian subcontinent to middle east to europe and without islam this process will be better more tolerent, develop more diversity in same thought of hindu budhhist leading to a far better and wiser world.
@@mtk3755
But Islam did saved the world. I understand you don't like to hear this but this is true. Let’s perform a thought experiment: if the Qur’an had never been revealed, then what would be the likely state of the world today?
Let’s think this through step by step. From the Qur’an emerged the justice of Islamic law; from that justice came peace and co-existence; with that peaceful co-existence came free intellectual activity in Muslim lands and from this freedom of literacy originate the knowledge that took Europe out of the Dark Ages and ushered in the Renaissance.
Thus isn’t it reasonable to conclude that the modern world, with all of its advanced technology like the internet and mobile phones, is a direct consequence of the revelation of the Qur’an?
What Muslims did was gather knowledge from around the world because you don't start from scratch but build upon what you already know.
Without Islam you would have a caste system in India where only Brahmins can study and become scholars.
By contrast, Islam brought justice to the world and ended racial prejudice and discrimination. Islam created a tolerant environment where everyone could engage in intellectual activity regardless of their race or religion. It’s no wonder that British historian Professor Arnold J. Toynbee wrote:
*“The extinction of race consciousness as between Muslims is one of the outstanding moral achievements of Islam, and in the contemporary world there is, as it happens, a crying need for the propagation of this Islamic virtue.”*
*- Civilization On Trial, New York, 1948, p. 205*
A good example of this is the Jewish Golden Age in Islamic Spain i.e Andalus. Zion Zohar, a Jewish American historian, summarised the benefits Jews reaped from the Muslim protection as follows:
*Born during this era of Islamic rule, the famous Golden Age of Spanish Jewry (circa 900-1200) produced such luminaries as: statesman and diplomat Hasdai ibn Shaprut, vizier and army commander Shmuel ha-Nagid, poet-philosophers Solomon Ibn Gabriol and Judah Halevi, and at the apex of them all, Moses Ben Maimon, also known among the Spaniards as Maimonides.*
*- Zion Zohar, Sephardic & Mizrahi Jewry, New York, 2005, pp. 9*
Heinrich Graetz, a 19th century Jewish historian expressed similar sentiments regarding Islamic rule:
*It was in these favourable circumstances that the Spanish Jews came under the rule of Mahometans [Muslims], as whose allies they esteemed themselves the equals of their co-religionists in Babylonia and Persia. They were kindly treated, obtained religious liberty, of which they had so long been deprived, were permitted to exercise jurisdiction over their co-religionists, and were only obliged, like the conquered Christians, to pay poll tax…*
*- H. Graetz, History of the Jews, London, 1892, vol. 3, p. 112*
Please answer my question
If islamic invasion did succeed in conquering persia would there be still a golden age like islam or not
There was never a islamic golden age
Can you do a what if, on if afro asiatic people never existed or indo European never existed
Just uploaded an Indo-European video. Afro asiatic, or Bantu, or Austronesian would be great to do as well.
The world would definitely be a better place
Cope pershit sister lover 😂😂😂
@@AL_AFGHANI1 Racist kid keep coping
why?
@@robertozeladarodriguez5321 simple; no sharia law, the world would have been the same as today except we'll be all liberal sooner with no need for civil rights movement and lastly terrorist elements would have been minimally or less brutal as isis and al qaeda would have not been form in shape despite saudi arabia present in this modern world without islam.
but even if without islam there would still be terrorism like what ive said and even the refugee crisis, so the white terrorists/supremacists would have to look for something else to attack.
as for the islamic golden age, it would still be there under a different disguise and under the zoroastrians, so renaissance will still be there at a early time. america would still be earlier discovered despite the lack of islam, because the vikings predated it before colonial powers even stepped in.
real
Persia would be slaying it :D:D
Rip presia 😢😢😢 650 ad
Nope
@@AL_AFGHANI1 judging from your pfp you'd most likely be a Buddhist
That’s easy, Global peace ☮️
لا الله الى الله محمد رسول الله ☪️🌹
@@malekaltayari3936u act like u love carthage yet ur Muslims ? Did u know that carthage was pegan Babylon ?
@علئ ياسر I know
My dream scenario
Interesting theroy
This video pretty much is very similar for my timeline called heirs of Heraclius the berbers conquer North africa and italy would get lost but imo that would take much longer Constans II in his italian invasion of 663 when the empire was gutted nearly took the capital benevento had not freed a captive if Constans II is invading with the whole east its likely a lot if not all of italy falls under his rule since unlike the ostrogths the lombards were very divided, the Balkans 100% would be more orthodox i disagree with Bulgaria the first khan and Tervel were great rulers and early Bulgaria had both lands above and in the danube river so I chose that Bulgaria still exist its just now its center of power is Walachia
I also disagree with iberia Tariq only had about 12,000 men he destroyed the flower of visigothic nobility in guadalate the earlier Mauro-Roman Kingdom was able to challenge Byzantine armies and if the berbers take the entire province they more then capable of delivering the same blow tariq did
The actual territories of Latin America would be more: advanced, rich and prosperus than our timeline.
History's Influence, thanks for the heart.
China or India would be the superpower
Have islam done anything good ?
Yes, khawarizli who invented algebra, and the Muslim scientists 1400 years ago has practiced mathematics and science, as a well as medication, if your think this is wrong, then search in google
@@maesizmayonnaise2745hijab isn't normal more than 1 woman isn't normal, islamic dictatorship is not normal persecuting Christians is not normal, Aisha 6 years old married IS NOT NORMAL easy to explaind the state must be secular.
Then Istanbul would've been still Called Constantinople!
The Cathars would still exist.
luckily this isnt real im a proud muslim respecting all religions alhamdhulillah
This cant be real because the first muslim (monotheis that believe in god) is adam (the first modern human), from youtube comment you see they dont understand islam they think islam start from muhammad but its not, so technically without islam modern human never exist, we not gonna exist
if islam did not existed neither would this world because the first human on earth was the first prophet of islam !!
Do you really believe that?
@@robertozeladarodriguez5321 oh yeah !!
The real question is that does anime still exist?
yes lol
The Rennaiscance wouldnt have happened and if so, waaaay later.
Maybe it could have happened 100 years after or 200 years before we don't know
The Renaissance was mostly due to Mongol invasion related spillover. Even if Islam never existed renaissance would have been inevitable in the early years because of many outside factors, including the heavy incompetencies and instability of Islamic Golden Age.
it would be interesting
Truly the blessed timeline
Based timeline Christianity is the only true religion
I wish
start making more videos
Caliph: No bitches?
The good ending
The good time line...
Peak clown activity
less kaboom
We Muslim have it forbidden to kill, those terrorists always blame on Islam or they are drunk, we never meant harm to anyone, if Islam was all about terrorism, them why does my country have several Christian and Jewish tourists, I know your pain, I feel bad for your family but all the terrorism you seen from Islam was a lie, if we were terrorist then why didn't we have bombs and weapons back then?
It says in the Quran:
Sahih International: [ 5 : 32 ] Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.
If Islam never existed then a lot of knowledge especially in Medical would exist now. Mine ancestors were expert in Medicines and science. Most probably they had treatment of those diseases too which we are suffering from now. Whenever I reads about Islamic Invasion then its full of destruction. Many universities and libraries were only burned down because they had more knowledge then their Islamic Doctors, simply in jealousy.
Also I won't get disturbed while watching about Islamic Invasions cuz Islam never existed.
U mean the stuff Islam stole from presia give me a break
We didn't destroy knowledge and such we added on it.
The only thing we destroyed is statues.
the mongols actually burned down universities and libraries, do ur research please.
It is thanks to us that you have Numbers like 123, Mathematic formulas, the idea of a camera, Chemistry, Soap and many things about astronomy and space
there's actually a lot of knowledge that the bloody west uses thanks to us
you're just trying to make us look bad
@@SamirZeGeeklies. Islam didnt have the guts to invent anything . doesnt mean Islam not existing doesnt mean the inventions wouldnt exist. stop being such a fcking rationalist claiming your correct
@@rickyyacine4818baghdad never stole knowledge but they collect all the knowledge and trying to improve and create new invention with religious motivation to improve human life
if only...
World peace.
the world is at peace without the religion of peace.
a better world, a civilised one
Yeah right 😂🤦♂️
@@fuzzley911You also 🤡🤡🤓🤓💀💀
Muzdak will be new Mohammed then kinda of
The middle east wouldn't be stuck in the 7th century.
Let me give you a reality check. Only a century after the advent of Islam the Middle East flourished into what historians call the "Golden Age of Islam" when Muslims were economically, politically, militarily and technologically far ahead of most of the world whilst Europe was in Dark Age.
West has taken a lot from the Muslim world. It was the justice and tolerance of Islam that made science flourish and awoke Europe from Dark Age giving birth to European Renaissance.
Professor Thomas Arnold writes that the European Renaissance originated in Islamic Spain:
*Muslim Spain had written one of the brightest pages in the history of Medieval Europe. Her influence had passed through Provence into the other countries of Europe, bringing into birth a new poetry and a new culture, and it was from here that Christian scholars received what of Greek philosophy and science they had to stimulate their mental activity up to the time of the Renaissance.*
*- The Preaching of Islam: A History of the Propagation of the Muslim Faith by Thomas Arnold, p. 131*
Translations of Arabic works on science were made for almost three centuries, starting from the 10th to the 13th century and gradually spread throughout Europe.
Professor George Saliba penned a book on this very topic and stated that:
*There is hardly a book on Islamic civilization, or on the general history of science, that does not at least pretend to recognize the importance of the Islamic scientific tradition and the role this tradition played in the development of human civilisation in general.*
*- George Saliba, Islamic Science and the Making of the European Renaissance, Massachusetts, 2007, p. 1*
Wish we were stuck in it was so much more advanced than what ever the hell is happening now with different infidel ideologies and laws being decided by idiots.
@@moizahmed4705 Typical statement from an apologist. The "Islamic Golden Age" you claimed is actually the Persian Golden Age.
@@P1utia
Not necessarily there were also Arabs and Spanish but they were all Muslims. There is a reason why this period is called the "Golden Age of Islam" by historians.
@@moizahmed4705 Even if without Islam, Persian Golden Age would still occur.
The world would be a better place.