Sam Shamoun Said THIS About Hebrews Chapter 12. Who Are The "Spirits of Just Men Made Perfect"?
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- Опубликовано: 19 авг 2024
- @answeringadventism and @shamounian teamed up to "bury" the Advent Defense League, particularly on the SDA understanding of the State of The Dead. They used Hebrews chapter 12:23 to do so, interpreting the "Spirits of just men made perfect" to be disembodied spirits of people who have ascended to heaven. Lets see what happens when you read this scripture in context.
UPDATE: I have been thinking further about my arguments in this video and realized I need to strengthen some of the points I made with better terminology to give the critics as little wiggle room as possible to refute these truths. I also wanted to add some points and respond to some things that have come up.
First, when I asked and answered the questions, "Are they there physically? No, but are they there spiritually? Yes!" I thought later that a better way to say it, which would fit better the context, is, "Are they there in ACTUALITY? No, but are they there THROUGH CHRIST? Yes!" This will prevent the critics from replying that they are up there "spiritually," meaning "disembodied." The text in Hebrews neither says those saints were dead nor disembodied. The major examples we have of people who have been taken to heaven were taken in their human bodies. Enoch stepped into the chariot of fire in his body. Moses was resurrected from the grave, and Enoch was simply "taken." Christ communes with those living beings in heaven on our behalf while we commune with the church on earth, but nothing says those living beings, when taken from the earth were "disembodied." That was an interpolation on Myles and Sam's part.
Second, I was asked about Moses, Elijah, and Enoch. Weren't they taken to heaven? Yes, but again, in their human bodies, not "disembodied." Additionally, SDAs admit SOME have been taken there, but those are the exception, NOT THE RULE. The rule is, "the dead know nothing" (Eccl. 9:5-6).
Finally, an argument came my way saying that the reference to David not ascending to heaven in Acts 2 can be refuted by saying only his "body" wasn't taken, but his conscious spirit was. But that is refuted by Hebrews 11. David is mentioned in verse 32, yet verses 39-40 says he and the rest of the patriarchs and prophets did "NOT receive the promise," and were not perfected yet. So, he did not consciously go in a disembodied spirit to receive a promise the apostle says he didn't receive yet. Critics like Sam and Myles simply insert that idea into the text without any real consideration of the context.
Edwin M. Cotto
#adventist #seventhdayadventist #sdachurch #seventhdayadventistchurch #christianchurch #jesus #stateofthedead #sabbath #samshamoun
HELLO ALL! I added an important update in the description of the video. Please refer to it when watching this video. Thank you!
Edwin M. Cotto
Nowhere does the Bible say that Moses was resurrected bodily. The Book of Enoch says that, but not the Bible.
This channel confirms why I’m SDA! We use the Bible people!!
Just reading de Bible in its context is so clear that the critics need to bring pagan philosophy and ideology into their interpretation in order to make their case. ADL only used Bible to explain Bible! Beautiful! Thank you at ADL renew trust in not only the SOLA SCRIPTURE, but also in the TOTA SCRIPTURE. Congratulations! 🙏🙏🙏
What an awesome break down 🔥what the critics don’t realize is that all they do is make us want to study more which leads to a a greater increase in our faith towards to the word of God .
If you would have done that .
and understood the context of Daniel 8 .you wouldn't be SDA!
Amen amen ADL clear
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tvIs that you Myles ? 😂😂
As Jesus told the woman at the well, we will worship God in spirit.
Once again, great job, all of you.
Thank you again guys for making clear this topic. I am a little slow I know! but thank you for technology I can rewind this baby up over and over again until it sinks in. Thank you Holy Spirit and thank you ADL!
Acts 2:29,34 KJV
Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. [34] For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
John 5:28-29 KJV
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, [29] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Another great job destroying deception for those who truly want the Truth.
Amen, I have been asking for these videos for a while with Sam , and the Bible is the one that defends itself.
You want to know the truth from the Bible that way when the false beliefs come from these critics, the truth is self evident!
Sam is a Catholic, of course he would defend a Pagan view of the State of the Dead, he must, otherwise the doctrine of worshipping the dead Saints would crumble...
And it's sad that people are falling to those lies.
Also, I love how he indirectly defended the doctrine of a heavenly sanctuary with his response XD
Flawless hermeneutics. Pray for the critics to have eyes to see and ears to hear. 🙏💯
*Great presentation.* - *Your studies are based on the proper use of principles of interpretation to discover the author’s intended meaning of a Biblical text.*
*When presupposition is set aside truth will never be presented to the audience as an illusion.* - *Failure to set aside conjecture will affect our ability to discern the author’s intended literal meaning, unless the genre, the use of what is clearly figurative language suggests otherwise.*
KEEP IT UP YOUNG MEN, FOR TO THE LAW AND TO THE TESTIMONY, IF THEY SPEAK "NOT ACCORDING" TO THESE WORD'S IS BECAUSE THERE'S NO LIGHT IN THEM... Isaiah chapter 8:20
JUST SHOW THEM THE GEMS OF SCRIPTURES, A WORK MAN NEED NOT TO BE ASHAMED RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH...😮
Acts 2:34 MIC DROP!!!!!!!!! Let's not forget John3:13 Drop another mic!!!!! The hits keep on coming. Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; which means that we are the body which is filled with the Spirit aka the Holy Spirit via His Breath. No immortal soul when we die, we are at rest, while the Breath aka the Holy Spirit returns back to God.
Can the soul/spirit died ? Absolutely is no!
GOD made us in his likeness; and man have soul, spirit and body.
ADL, this moment you said the spirit is resting and the next moment the spirit is with Christ in heaven.which is the word of God, absent from the body in Christ, you are present with him. What is the point, SDA now accept that the soul is conscious?
@@gt3536 Gen 2:7 We are the soul and the Spirit is His breath. there is not immortal being with in us. When we die the soul aka our body is at rest, while the Spirit aka the breath of God returns to Him. Ephesians 4:4, 1st Cor 12:13 Rom 8:11Eccl 12:7
@@gt3536 Dear brother I think what they were trying to say that the soul was at rest aka the body and the Spirit returned to God aka breath of life. Gen 2-7 Gen 3-19 Eccl 12:7 blessings my brother
I'm imagining this... when the final deception happens, the spirits of the dead revealing their lies, Sam, Myles, people like that... will be the first to accuse and say "SEE? WE TOLD YOU ADVENTISTS!"
I honestly hope that's not the case, I hope that they open their eyes, but I also pray that we strengthen our faith by daily seeking the Lord, for if possible we would be deceived also... pray, for the great controversy is reaching it's climax.
You got my upvote ❤.
Awesome!
You guys are dope 💪🏾🙏🏾
Smh, they've come to mount Zion the city of Truth.
Adl give them bible, old things and new things, let them go study bible with the aid of the Holy spirit but they must know this, that God only give his spirit to those who obey Him. And spiritual things are spiritually discern.
Myles & Sam leave out the whole context, and are 'offended' for a word, "the spirits of...".
Were they to analyse the whole context, where would they find themselves, then, besides having recorded a longer, likely 'unprofitable' video, not endorsing their beliefs.
Amen
The KJV translate the text "the spirit of just men" the greek interliner quotes " the spirit of the righteous made perfect" the text in no way is indicating that perfected spirits of men exist in heaven.
Paul writes out clearly the process of a resurrection of body an spirit at Jesus coming. "we which are asleep in the grave" If there is already perfected men spirits in heaven then there is no need for a second return which would negate Jesus being the second Adam!!. Also why would Jesus return to heaven in a bodly form?
Proverbs chapter 6 verse 23 The commandments is a lamp, and the law is a light and reproof and correction is the way of life.
They simply disregard the ten commandments that's why they have no light, their darkness is very great, so ADL continue to exercise patience with them.
1 Amen
Understanding Scripture in context No one goes to heaven dead , one has to be resurrected in flesh and soul to be able to go to heaven
Sam shaming and miles of lies are master of this colloquial saying
A verse talking out of context is a pretext
Pray for these shaming Liars
🙏🙏🙏
The text itself says the spirit of Just men, not dead men. Why are they assuming that they are dead?
AMEN!!!!
They without us cannot be made perfect, because they're waiting on us the final generation who will over in these last days.
All these stalwart are in there graves, go read Hebrews chapter 11 the hall of faith. Sampson Rahab the harlot, David and all those that mentioned in the chapter they're all waiting on us. Teach them to join scripture to scripture, we have to overcome sin at the final test that is coming, in order for those faithful that are in there graves to receive the promise.
In the first resurrection we who are alive will not proceed those that r dead , at the second coming both the living righteous and those that were dead righteous will be caught up together to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord..
Because THERE is a GREAT TEST COMING THAT THE FAITHFUL MUST OVERCOME IN THE LAST DAY, REVELATION TEST COMING.
Well there are just men in heaven now too, because they were resurrected as the first fruits when Christ was resurrected. And then there's Enoch Moses Elijah , so there's that. So with adls explanation that makes two.
That's true. And lest the critics get any ideas with this, they should remember that exceptions are not the rule.
Support for what you said has been written to you but the guy keeps erasing them
@@AdventDefenseLeagueyou are a village idiot juxtaposed with Sam.
Yes resurrected! For no one goes to heaven dead according to the bible
The context is in the beginning of the same chapter
1¶Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
(Prov. 3:11, 12 )
3¶For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
I don't want to add t
My own interpretation
Just read with prayer 🙏🙏🙏
Taking the Son of God as a metaphor. =(
This guy gives me so much anxiety!
📯🕒⏳⌛; Please on youtube > The mistic realm of death what happens when you die via Walter Veith (The Breath of life goes back to heaven, NOT the physical body, & their Are some GOD took to HIMSELF and on JESUS CHRIST ASCENSION too - Walter Veith's lecture Is Straight Scripture ❗
Please 🙏invite sam shamoun to a to talk with you ,he always think ADL's feared of him to debate with him and says like satanic,blasphemy,heretics and so on words so Please invite him.
Nah, it wouldn't be worth it! He debates in a mean, non Christian way. He will call you names and degrade you. Even though I've learned a whole lot from him when he debates Muslims/Islam or anyone anti Trinity he consistently puts people down . . . totally unchristian-like. Just check out his videos and see for yourself! This format is better, you are not interrupted, you get to finish your point.
@@myjrny2 I agree, this is a much better way to answer the critics.
What is a Spirit?
The breath of God you get this from genesis 2:7.
Soul and spirit use interchangeable in the bible .
It can referd as spirit side of mankind and the breath of life.
Depend on the context it is use in.
ADL is confused or they have an heart of stone.When the bible said the grave can't praised God, mean literally the stone. Spot use this context to say the soul or spirit is unconscious. You ADL are contradicting what you are saying"God is not the God of the dead , he is God of the living." Jacob, Jasuah are a live. The bible said God the Father buried Moses and yet he appeared to Christ on the mount of transfiguration. Enoch translated and he also was with moses on the mount of transfiguration. Two different translation. Also Elijah was caugth up in to heaven.also remember there more than one heaven. Paradise is not heaven also remember that .stop twist the word of God to sooth you soul sleep narrative. Saints are in heaven according to the book of jude. Soul are in hades( hell) according St.Luke 16and 1 Peter 3- 4. That a summary. Capital S represent the Holy spirit remember that.Command s represent the breath of God or the soul.
@@gt3536If they are alive then there is no need for a resurrection. But Jesus was explaining to the Saducees that they will be resurrected.
So are they dead or alive?
I think it is you who has the confused understanding of scripture.
@@thatnicekid04 I can get that body + breath = a soul no problem there.
My confusion is about what a Spirit is…
When we pray for the “Holy Spirit” we’re asking for the character/consciousness of God. The soul can exist with out a consciousness but it seems that a Spirit doesn’t necessarily follow that same structure.
ADL you are wrong , Jesus is the resurrection and the life.that what he said to marta lazerus's sister before he was raised. When christ gave up his ghost, the body of saints was resurrrcted, Mattew 27. This show that all from the days of noah would receive their heavenly body when christ died on the cross.
Nothing you said negates the verses posted in this video.
Yes there were people who were RESURRECTED with Jesus. The Bible doesn't say that they were from Noah's time.
The fact that they were resurrected shows that they weren't spirits of the dead as Sam claimed.
🙏
@gt3536 so are you saying that there was a resurrection in Haven 🤔
@@thatnicekid04 it doesn't say they (weren't )from the Noah's time .what's your point ?they definitely resurrected ! you have to agree to that! and they happened to be people from (before when Jesus hung on the cross!)!
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tvI think the point of this video is to show that people “spirits” don’t go to heaven. Rather that they have to be resurrected, there are some humans that have died that are in heaven right now. Like Moses and the people that rose with Christ apart from that no one else.
What did you do with the two comments I posted were they too much truth in them or what
Stop that nonsense. You prob deleted them yourself. Trust me, no one here is worried about what you have to say.
@@justamessenger4577 so why does it matter so much that you have to speak! They block two computers already and they're trying on the third just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not the truth
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv
My point was that no one is blocking your comments. The reason no one is blocking your comments is because no one has a reason to. The reason for that is becasue you have no idea what you are talking about and most likely express it in a way that is hard to understand.
I saw one of your comments, you said the same thing you always do. The same exact stuff.
I promise you, no one is removing your comments. You are not that important.
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tvNow now Myles carm down 👍
@@justamessenger4577could not have said it better myself 👏
Not refuted! You make Hebrews say we have come to ourselves! Nonsense! It's not saying that we have come to ourselves, nor have we been made perfect yet. The spirits of the just men are the spirits of those who have died in Christ.
Where does it say in the verse that they died?