The two ladies just guessing the classes of the people coming down the stairs in full earshot of them with getting absolutely no response or hassle is golden 😂
1966 was a time when the so called working classes were coming into their own. People like Twiggy, David Bailey and of course Michael Caine were turning the class system on it's head. More from Man Alive please, they made some amazing films.
Alas, an illusion. The likes of Michael Caine and Terence Stamp might have made sounding common fashionable, but in 1966 Oxbridge graduates were still paying their wages, critiquing their films and deciding what people like Mrs Herbert got to watch on a Saturday night.
But her father, as she modestly pointed out, was in ‘business’ so not really truly posh just cash rich with a veneer of poshness which would fool the casual observer.
@@garyrigby21The Beatles and all the Liverpool groups were taking over the charts and when it came to music it broke down a lot of those classic barriers.
The traffic in the background at the start of this is hypnosic. I love these little documentaries that give you a first hand veiw of what it was like back then 19:00 Mr.Tenants tatched cottage is beautiful. This? Documentary is fantastic real eye opener.
@@jaycristoval6155 Of course she didn’t own it. It’s just interesting to note that what was once probably considered an undesirable slum is now a much sought after address and that someone of humble means today is highly unlikely likely to ever live in such an area, or indeed any inner city London address.
Man Alive was such a sterling show my mam and dad always watched it in our working class tin bath house🤣but seriously what all tv should take lessons on is how to produce 100% authentic programmes
Although invisible, we do adhere to these lines or divisions, whether unspoken or outwardly acknowledged. It is part of the human condition to classify, and very few are able to ignore the differences completely, regardless of which end of the spectrum they come from.
I had to look up the definition of the scale the ladies were referring to. A B C1 C2 D E etc The classification is interesting, but unfortunately in Britain today there are so many that are what’s termed as, ‘economically inactive’ the classification starts to become irrelevant.
Jolly hockey sticks! My dad used to have a raincoat like the one that man is wearing! This is an interesting insight into 1960s culture, which I might add was before my time. 1966 was I think the year that my parents met for the first time!
What an interesting documentary. I grew up in the 1960's, in Fulham and witnessed the changes first hand. I recently tried to explain my experience of the class system to a young person, with much difficulty. Although things have changed, social stratification is still evident today.
A salary of £4000 equates to £63000 in todays money. That's decent but probably not far above average in parts of london. Could it sustain a large house in Islington, a family and enough to send the children to a private school? Oddly enough there's a house on rightmove that looks like it's on the same road (Ripplevale grove). 3 bed, £3,475,000. put down a £1M deposit and stretch it over 45 years and you'll only have to pay £11,000 per month! But at least nowadays everyone can fill the fruit bowl several times a week!
The navvy fella had more nous and wisdom than any of the higher class people. Our family emigrated to the USA in 1983. I think they were tired of the UK class system. Dad came here as a welder, but they were amazed how they would attend parties, BBQs, and social events and end up rubbing shoulders with doctors and CEOs. The USA is definitely the place for a common working person to 'get on'. I know my parents did very well, and my own kids are also taking advantage of the opportunities here.
Sounds like it’s still the land of opportunity for your family. Why are there so many Americans on RUclips complaining about just about every aspect of life in the USA. No jobs, unemployment, homeless people, no medical system, student loans, consumer debt, terrible tv, terrible working environment/ conditions, no vacations, racism, political corruption, crime, fear, death of the American dream, you name it everything.
I was just five years old when our family moved to the US in 1983. I loved it, Dad and sisters loved it! Unfortunately, my mother missed her parents and forced us all back to the UK after a 2-3 years. Sill to this day, I wished we'd stayed in the US. I'd move there in a heartbeat if I could. I've just got back from a 9,000 mile motorcycle road trip to the US and it certainly lived up to my expectations.
That’ll be the American of Ivy League universities, political dynasties like the Kennedy and Bushes, fee paying schools for the wealthy and where a hospital will turn you away if you don’t have money? This idiotic delusion that American is a society without privilege and social class!
There was and remains a hierarchy, or class structure, in just about every society on earth including Australia & New Zealand, with a possible exception being Scandinavia where they at least have made some progress in creating a more egalitarian society.
The class system still exists, and I experience it daily with interactions with certain clientele. Fortunately, 90% of people treat me no differently. The 10% come across as arrogant, rude and treat you differently from your accent.
Still goes on today, it’s just people are more covert about it. The class system in the U.K. is insane. How can anyone judge another person who’s in a situation out of their control, like ill health or husband dying?
Class isn't about money or position. Rather it is cultural. Years ago there was a charity called 'the distressed gentlefolk association '. The ethos was that it helped upper class people who were financially embarrassed. Today, one cannot help but notice that the Deputy Prime Minister (theoretically A (upper-class)) is nonetheless of a lower class. She self defines herself as 'working-class'. Upper-class people historically described lower class individuals as 'nouveau riche' when they entered higher social circles because of wealth. The impact of industrialisation created many very rich people from humble beginnings. They were derided by the landed elite. In the middle-ages there were some men of non-noble birth who nonetheless occupied high positions of state through the medium of the established church. Examples such as Becket, Thomas Moore and Wolsey spring to mind. For the rest there was a strict heirarchy amongst nobles (all upper-class) and freemen in the Guilds (middle-class) and the peasantry (lowest). The present classification was set up by 'sociologists' who obviously were middle-class and did not understand the essence of culture and instead chose 'income' as the main arbiter of class.
This is incredibly interesting. How do you view the class system yourself? Also, in terms of cultural, what exactly do you mean by that? Do you mean the view of someone by others? Where they come from etc?
This is incredibly interesting. How do you view the class system yourself? Also, in terms of cultural, what exactly do you mean by that? Do you mean the view of someone by others? Where they come from etc?
Cultural means shared values. So British upper classes tended towards private education (often boarding) ; common ideals of 'noblesse oblige' , the idea that with privilege came a duty to others less endowed; that the showing of emotion was weakness (hence the stiff upper lip), that service to King and Country was as important as life itself (in varying degrees); that it was essential to appreciate classical music ( and play an instrument) and classical literature to be well read; to know and follow rules of etiquette such as what fork to use and how to properly eat certain foods etc not put elbows on the table... stand up for those higher in status and ladies who enter a room etc and to know how to dance ball-room correctly to ride horses to a good standard, to shoot and fly-fish perhaps to fence. To treat servants politely and to treat those of the same class with formal respect. (Male barristers address each other as 'Sir' in the Inns of Court) This gives a rough idea of what I mean by culture in one of the classes. Boarding school particularly creates individuals who have learnt how to cope from a miserable (and often violent) introduction to life. The Culture in the other classes are similarly different to each other. There was a time when ambition was stifled amongst the working classes, with comments like 'who do you think you are' and 'that is not for the likes of us.' I knew a girl who chose to go to a secondary modern despite passing the 11+ because her parents expected her to work in a factory as soon as possible. There used to be a tradition among the working classes to go to a pub (their local) frequently particularly on a Friday or Saturday night as wages were paid on Fridays. Drunkeness was regarded as 'a laff' (they still do it as anyone who had gone on a package holiday to the Costas will tell you... many are drunk on the plane and see no harm in it at all). Upper-class people might be inebriated but excess is regarded with disgust. My point is that if (say) the privately educated younger son of a Lord decided to take on a job as a labourer he is still upper-class irrespective of the occupation. The culture of the middle-class is confused as it is a mixture from social mobility of the two extremes. The affected accent of the two women in the film is an example of those in one class trying to imitate another. (Harold Wilson went the other way pretending to be of the proletariat when he was nothing of the sort. The same was true of Tony Blair who also hid his public school roots from the general public but got on very comfortably as Prime Minister) Boris Johnson is obviously Upper-class and was similarly comfortable as PM because those around him shared the same class culture... also bound to a hierarchy based on the school and college and university. I quite agree the classes and who people belong to is interesting. The French have another category 'hors classe". The film was society in 1966. Today there are many new arrivals from overseas that have a different perception of class. Hindus for example live under a rigid caste system and can be different according to how they sre perceived here. I don't know whether Rishi Sunak under the caste system was high or low but under the British system he is obviously Upper-class . a@@damianfitzgerald1871
@ what a fantastic and informative reply. Thank you so much. It has made me understand a lot of my own situation actually. I don’t think I’ve ever realized it. Personally, I’m from working class Irish parents, but I went to a private school. My wife’s parents are both from working class backgrounds but her father became incredibly successful and she went to several very high end boarding schools. Her parents divide their time between the English country and Scottish highlands salmon fishing. Her father is amazing at being able to converse with Lords and, well, me. He is considered ‘new money’ but also incredibly highly respected in the work he does for the land, the rivers, and has gun trained dogs etc. I’m realizing (through your post) how my situation means I’ve witnessed such an intersection of class without fully realizing what has been driving all of these differing views. Everything you have written rings incredibly true. I’ve actually often struggled with how the working class perceive the upper class with much more vitriol than exists in the other direction. I’m going to spend time researching more on this now. Thank you for taking the time to write such an informed and informative reply. It’s astounding to me that my parents and in-laws would have been 20ish when this show aired, and yet one generation later, I have spent my entire life unaware that this existed and still exists. Best,
In Australia during the sixties we were a bit mocking of the British class system and insisted it didn't exist in Australia (not true of course.) The old saying Jack was as good as his master was the the Aussie motto. Listening to those ladies classify people into classes with their posh upper class accents made me chuckle. Nevertheless, in the sixties Australia really was the lucky country and many of the UK migrants from that era i'm sure would agree.
It was becoming difficult in the mid '60s to classify people. These days, apart from the very lowest and the very highest echelons of society, the vast middling section is very difficult to categorize.
I never got the whole Keeping Up Appearances tv show, I always thought it was so odd, but seeing the nanny in this documentary helped me to see there must have been so many people like this in the UK back then.
1966: Is the BRITISH CLASS SYSTEM Changing? | Man Alive | Voice of the People | BBC Archive 1345pm 30.11.24 they were obviously liberal upper class couple and probably slept ion the wrong side of the bed, also... did you sit and wonder what class you were, children? i found myself to be unclassifiable and there are several mental breakdowns been induced in the guys who like to pigeon hole the chap to prove this... goodbye.
"ghastly plastic flowers" from the two survey women and then the awful snobbery of the nanny - what a horror show. I'd sooner spend a day with Mrs. Herbert back in those days than a single second with the awful snobs. Quite alarming just how condescending those times were.
I certainly wouldn’t describe the nanny as snob although I can see why some people who are quick to judge may get that impression. She was giving an honest account of her experiences whilst engaged as nanny by people from different social backgrounds. I don’t know why people take such offence at the slightest thing.
She was a ludicrious old snob. Doubtless a product of her time. People taking offence is of your invention. You say people are quick to judge when you just as quickly arrive at your own conclusion. Apart from lacking judgement, you just aren't very good when it comes to arguing a point.@JayArgonauts
@@brendanbrendan9435 We can only make inferences and judgments based on the facts available, and the fact is, whether you choose to accept it or not is irrelevant to me, the nanny, Miss Gordon, was, in this instance, commenting very candidly and openly on a particular demographic, not in a disparaging or mocking tone but honestly and truthfully. Perhaps you aren't so quick on the uptake or unable or unwilling to examine social issues impartially without being influenced by bias, resentment and prejudice. You label her as a ‘ludicrous old snob’ based on an interview lasting no more than four minutes which is poor judgment, and confirmation enough that you have nothing to add to the discussion beyond meaningless generalisations. The comments section is littered with nasty remarks by people who have taken offence because they are too thick to grasp the content, something you would know if you had perused the comments section. Get back to me when you can formulate a credible argument without resorting to petty insults because that attempt was risible.
The comprehensive school system was the worst thing that ever happened to me, we were told you are not sitting the 11+ you are all going to a comprehensive school........bloody awful !!😢
I have a lovely friend, we're now in our 70s. She definitely belonged to the upper class - she didn't know there was such a thing as the state school system until she was 22!!
At 01:19, You can tell they're C2 "by the way they're carrying their luggage"...and some cynical people criticize Sociology for not being a serious science...
A great example of the beginning of the end of 'Great' Britain. Little wonder that countries such as the USA, Japan and Australia have flourished since the late 60s, in comparison.
I’d love to know where these people all ended up! What happened to their kids? lol. I have a British friend whom I met during my year abroad in college. He had a solid upbringing w a father as a professor & then head master at a public school near Stratford.m on Avon. When we compared our lives in the 60s, growing up (we’re now both 72), I realized how truly terrible WWII affected the lives of Brits for decades after it ended!! In 1965 he lived as Americans lived in the 40s. Looking at his photos & hearing his stories, life was so much harder & times were very lean when he was a child. His pictures from his childhood actually looked like photos of my parents in the 1940s… examples being, his clothing, shoes, their prams and the toys they had.
The start of your comment about wanting to know what happened to these people The lady who lived in quick street, Islington. The Labour Party ❤Islington Property in quick street sell for £1.4 million, £1.8 million and more The couple at the end with the fluffy dog and the baby Peter Duffell British Film and TV director Born 1922 died 2017 His wife is Rosalyn Cliffe Go to Wikipedia for full info 🇬🇧🇬🇧🏴🏴
I never thought of myself as a letter of the alphabet. I think of myself as a child of God. My worth has nothing to do with my performance or my income. Thank goodness that we are alike unto God. His only concern is whether we are going to follow Him, whether we are living a clean, honest upright life.
Umm... I don’t really think dentistry was quite so advanced when this documentary was made so it seems like a pointless observation or rather a bitchy one because you dislike her comments.😂
@@JayArgonauts I understand that floride was not in use in the UK & that’s one reason Brit’s teeth were so bad years ago. That, and dental hygiene wasn’t practiced until 40 or so yrs ago … braces weren’t popular either.
That was hysterical and horrifying all at the same time! I grew up in that era, I remember the snobbery well…..but those women were appalling, who are they to judge, the way they were taking people apart like they were specimens in a Petri dish, wild! The school master saying “if a navvies’s boy came to school shovelling food in with his hands, instead of a knife and fork”, just shows the hideous and unrealistic ideas and misconceptions of the divide between classes. I need a good cuppa after that! A class of course! 🤣😂
Fascinating how stereotyped everyone was back then. Very little original thought by any of the classes, almost brain washed into staying in their tier in life. Felt very sorry for the navvy who was looked down on because his clothes were dirty.
There’s one thing I’ve noticed that distinguishes Brits from Americans & that the frequent use of the F word! I vacation a lot in the Uk & have since the 70s when I was a student. What I know to be true is that the F word seems to be used much more among all classes in Britain. When I watch British movies on Netflix, the word is used so much, that its meaning of frustration or disgust, is no longer valid.
As a Brit I find the use of the f word in our country is now normal for so many people but not as much as the movies depict it. Quite why the movie-makers think it so important for their characters to swear all the time is beyond me! The offensive c word is creeping in fast and furiously, sadly. My adult children have never used either word in front of us - they wouldn't dream of it! We never used profanities in front of them. It's all about respect. Their friends are the same. Our grandchildren certainly benefit by living within non-verbally aggressive households where they are loved, valued and respected. Their parents care hugely about what they're exposed to and what they are not exposed to, age appropriately. We're not religious or anything, we simply care and believe in respect for one's fellow people.
Couldn’t agree with you more ❤️ we were not caught up about class classifications. We took individuals as we found them, not how they spoke and enunciated words, or dressed!
It's the 'middle classes' you feel sorry for, aspiring to be upper class which they know they can never be and terrified of becoming working class aware that they will never be happy. Poor middle class sods! 😂 and might I say without the working class there would be no middle or upper class!
In America, anyone can raise their class. A middle class person, such as Joe Biden, became a president, although not a very good one. A President in America is considered upper class…look at Obama!! He was very low class…according to his biography, born in Africa! I ran into a fellow recently whose dad was our bricklayer & farm helper. The guy is in his 40s & the owner of his own plumbing company & making big money. His class is still lowly, but to those who don’t know how he was raised, he’s now considered middle class.
Unbelievable that I grew up during such a blatantly judgmental period of history. Neither of these people did a day’s work in their lives unlike the poor souls living hand to mouth on soup and toast.
25:50 Yes, luv, we really believe you. Though Millions wouldn't. 🙄 It were so much easier when sumptuary laws were in place. Actually, scrap that, as they never really worked.
+1 My mother insisted on calling the toilet (French root) the lavatory (Latin?). She was full of snobbery although she was C1. I left the country asap with the girl my mother didn't approve of in 1986 and never went back apart for a handful of visits. (P.S. just celebrated our 40th wedding anniversary). 🇫🇷 This is cringeworthy TV. Here we're just immigrants and have French nationality since Brexit. 🇪🇺
Thanks to the slaughter of world war 1, there was a surplus of unmarried ladies in her generation who, despite their upper class background and good education, had no choice but to get paid jobs. Her posh voice isn't faux, thousands of women like her were badly let down.
Hello BBC Archive, do you by any chance have the ‘Man Alive’ programme on higher education from April 1969? I would love to see it - thanks in anticipation.
1966: Is the BRITISH CLASS SYSTEM Changing? | Man Alive | Voice of the People | BBC Archive 1321pm 20.11.24 -may i use the official study at the vicarage, please? -pardon? -your bog. can i use the bog?
The two ladies just guessing the classes of the people coming down the stairs in full earshot of them with getting absolutely no response or hassle is golden 😂
I found it hilarious 😂
They would have got hassle from some people I think they just got lucky there
"DEHHF'NITELEH, I should-imag'n, *_UN_* -skilled workah!..."
They weren't 'ladies' that's not how any lady would behave. They were two hags trying to be something they're not! 😂
Vintage people watching
Mrs. Herbert is precious. I hope she and her cat enjoyed their simple life together for many, many years.
It would be great to know her story or hear from her family.
So sweet. 😊
@@MarkEliasGrantwell said😊
Her flat just sold on right move for £1,415,000
@asa1973100 yep they put some D's in some A's❤😊
Brilliant in it's ghastlyness. Those class classification women were gold, heinously hilarious comedy gold.
1966 was a time when the so called working classes were coming into their own. People like Twiggy, David Bailey and of course Michael Caine were turning the class system on it's head.
More from Man Alive please, they made some amazing films.
❤
The year of the Labour landslide which helped it along
Don't forget the Beatles, who were turning both the class system and the North-South divide on their heads.
Turned what!!!😂😅
Alas, an illusion. The likes of Michael Caine and Terence Stamp might have made sounding common fashionable, but in 1966 Oxbridge graduates were still paying their wages, critiquing their films and deciding what people like Mrs Herbert got to watch on a Saturday night.
I'm lost for words! So much to unpick from this episode.
You're telling me, so interesting
The Posh Nanny, "oh my upbringing was very ordinary, large house with tennis court and croquet lawn etc" - Oh, just like most people then.
That was very telling…lol
@@cberry6751that made me laugh so much.
But her father, as she modestly pointed out, was in ‘business’ so not really truly posh just cash rich with a veneer of poshness which would fool the casual observer.
You wouldn't know it from this show but there was so much good music in 66
I was 5 years old in 1966, wow.
@tonycollazorappo remember all the good music on the radio back then?
@@garyrigby21The Beatles and all the Liverpool groups were taking over the charts and when it came to music it broke down a lot of those classic barriers.
I think there is still a class system in the UK, it's just not talked about in the same way as it used to be. Interesting programme.👍🏻
We still use the same letters for economic class.
So true
The traffic in the background at the start of this is hypnosic. I love these little documentaries that give you a first hand veiw of what it was like back then
19:00 Mr.Tenants tatched cottage is beautiful.
This?
Documentary is fantastic real eye opener.
Property prices in Quick Street Islington 2024 nearly £2M......... If only that lovely old lady knew the future
So very true. I was looking for this comment. How times have changed.
12 Quick Street, where she lived, sold for 1.95m this year…
I doubt she owned the place....
@@jaycristoval6155 Of course she didn’t own it. It’s just interesting to note that what was once probably considered an undesirable slum is now a much sought after address and that someone of humble means today is highly unlikely likely to ever live in such an area, or indeed any inner city London address.
@@Breasail hooooly crap, I only just found this video and realised that I live literally around the corner from this place!
Mrs. Herbert is so lovely.......
Loved this glimpse into social history ❤️
"They fill the fruit bowl several days a week."
And they would not shovel it in with their hands, but use a knife and fork.
Man Alive was such a sterling show my mam and dad always watched it in our working class tin bath house🤣but seriously what all tv should take lessons on is how to produce 100% authentic programmes
They are all very well spoken ❤ no matter what class they are from 👌🏼
Although invisible, we do adhere to these lines or divisions, whether unspoken or outwardly acknowledged. It is part of the human condition to classify, and very few are able to ignore the differences completely, regardless of which end of the spectrum they come from.
I had to look up the definition of the scale the ladies were referring to. A B C1 C2 D E etc
The classification is interesting, but unfortunately in Britain today there are so many that are what’s termed as, ‘economically inactive’ the classification starts to become irrelevant.
E are the economically inactive. Pensioners, the sick, the unemployed etc.
We would assess these two ladies as solid B’s today. With a capital B.
I dare say, my good fellow, that "c" is perhaps a more appropriate classification. My dear chap I may even put forth it should be a capital "C".
Jolly hockey sticks! My dad used to have a raincoat like the one that man is wearing! This is an interesting insight into 1960s culture, which I might add was before my time. 1966 was I think the year that my parents met for the first time!
Now everyone speaks and acts lower class.
Lives it too.
What an interesting documentary. I grew up in the 1960's, in Fulham and witnessed the changes first hand. I recently tried to explain my experience of the class system to a young person, with much difficulty. Although things have changed, social stratification is still evident today.
A salary of £4000 equates to £63000 in todays money. That's decent but probably not far above average in parts of london. Could it sustain a large house in Islington, a family and enough to send the children to a private school?
Oddly enough there's a house on rightmove that looks like it's on the same road (Ripplevale grove). 3 bed, £3,475,000. put down a £1M deposit and stretch it over 45 years and you'll only have to pay £11,000 per month!
But at least nowadays everyone can fill the fruit bowl several times a week!
The navvy fella had more nous and wisdom than any of the higher class people. Our family emigrated to the USA in 1983. I think they were tired of the UK class system. Dad came here as a welder, but they were amazed how they would attend parties, BBQs, and social events and end up rubbing shoulders with doctors and CEOs. The USA is definitely the place for a common working person to 'get on'. I know my parents did very well, and my own kids are also taking advantage of the opportunities here.
I couldn’t agree more… I left in 1987 to the US. England, in my opinion is Doomed.
@nigelbeaumont1109 I think we are all pretty much in the same boat. All our leaders are complete nut jobs.
Sounds like it’s still the land of opportunity for your family. Why are there so many Americans on RUclips complaining about just about every aspect of life in the USA. No jobs, unemployment, homeless people, no medical system, student loans, consumer debt, terrible tv, terrible working environment/ conditions, no vacations, racism, political corruption, crime, fear, death of the American dream, you name it everything.
I was just five years old when our family moved to the US in 1983. I loved it, Dad and sisters loved it! Unfortunately, my mother missed her parents and forced us all back to the UK after a 2-3 years. Sill to this day, I wished we'd stayed in the US. I'd move there in a heartbeat if I could. I've just got back from a 9,000 mile motorcycle road trip to the US and it certainly lived up to my expectations.
@@jameshardy6277 never too late.
David Wilcox who was married to Ester Rantzen and her show on the BBC. He was a good documentary film maker.
I would love to know how the handsome Irish gentleman did and how is family faired in our cruel class system
No doubt this is why so many poms left for Australia or New Zealand. To rid themselves of this ridiculous stuffy system
That's one benefit I've found of moving from London to America.
That’ll be the American of Ivy League universities, political dynasties like the Kennedy and Bushes, fee paying schools for the wealthy and where a hospital will turn you away if you don’t have money? This idiotic delusion that American is a society without privilege and social class!
There was and remains a hierarchy, or class structure, in just about every society on earth including Australia & New Zealand, with a possible exception being Scandinavia where they at least have made some progress in creating a more egalitarian society.
@@brendanbrendan9435 right, but it's not like the UK where you're basically stuck in your class even if your financial status changes.
Mrs Herbert top of the class 😊 ❤lovely person,not enough time spent on her.The herberts very thoughtful 🤫
The class system still exists, and I experience it daily with interactions with certain clientele. Fortunately, 90% of people treat me no differently. The 10% come across as arrogant, rude and treat you differently from your accent.
It's true - but I also find it true in the other direction
Still goes on today, it’s just people are more covert about it. The class system in the U.K. is insane. How can anyone judge another person who’s in a situation out of their control, like ill health or husband dying?
Class isn't about money or position. Rather it is cultural. Years ago there was a charity called 'the distressed gentlefolk association '. The ethos was that it helped upper class people who were financially embarrassed. Today, one cannot help but notice that the Deputy Prime Minister (theoretically A (upper-class)) is nonetheless of a lower class. She self defines herself as 'working-class'.
Upper-class people historically described lower class individuals as 'nouveau riche' when they entered higher social circles because of wealth. The impact of industrialisation created many very rich people from humble beginnings. They were derided by the landed elite.
In the middle-ages there were some men of non-noble birth who nonetheless occupied high positions of state through the medium of the established church. Examples such as Becket, Thomas Moore and Wolsey spring to mind. For the rest there was a strict heirarchy amongst nobles (all upper-class) and freemen in the Guilds (middle-class) and the peasantry (lowest).
The present classification was set up by 'sociologists' who obviously were middle-class and did not understand the essence of culture and instead chose 'income' as the main arbiter of class.
This is incredibly interesting. How do you view the class system yourself?
Also, in terms of cultural, what exactly do you mean by that? Do you mean the view of someone by others? Where they come from etc?
This is incredibly interesting. How do you view the class system yourself?
Also, in terms of cultural, what exactly do you mean by that? Do you mean the view of someone by others? Where they come from etc?
Cultural means shared values. So British upper classes tended towards private education (often boarding) ; common ideals of 'noblesse oblige' , the idea that with privilege came a duty to others less endowed; that the showing of emotion was weakness (hence the stiff upper lip), that service to King and Country was as important as life itself (in varying degrees); that it was essential to appreciate classical music ( and play an instrument) and classical literature to be well read; to know and follow rules of etiquette such as what fork to use and how to properly eat certain foods etc not put elbows on the table... stand up for those higher in status and ladies who enter a room etc and to know how to dance ball-room correctly to ride horses to a good standard, to shoot and fly-fish perhaps to fence. To treat servants politely and to treat those of the same class with formal respect. (Male barristers address each other as 'Sir' in the Inns of Court) This gives a rough idea of what I mean by culture in one of the classes. Boarding school particularly creates individuals who have learnt how to cope from a miserable (and often violent) introduction to life.
The Culture in the other classes are similarly different to each other. There was a time when ambition was stifled amongst the working classes, with comments like 'who do you think you are' and 'that is not for the likes of us.' I knew a girl who chose to go to a secondary modern despite passing the 11+ because her parents expected her to work in a factory as soon as possible. There used to be a tradition among the working classes to go to a pub (their local) frequently particularly on a Friday or Saturday night as wages were paid on Fridays. Drunkeness was regarded as 'a laff' (they still do it as anyone who had gone on a package holiday to the Costas will tell you... many are drunk on the plane and see no harm in it at all). Upper-class people might be inebriated but excess is regarded with disgust. My point is that if (say) the privately educated younger son of a Lord decided to take on a job as a labourer he is still upper-class irrespective of the occupation. The culture of the middle-class is confused as it is a mixture from social mobility of the two extremes. The affected accent of the two women in the film is an example of those in one class trying to imitate another. (Harold Wilson went the other way pretending to be of the proletariat when he was nothing of the sort. The same was true of Tony Blair who also hid his public school roots from the general
public but got on very comfortably as Prime Minister) Boris Johnson is obviously Upper-class and was similarly comfortable as PM because those around him shared the same class culture... also bound to a hierarchy based on the school and college and university.
I quite agree the classes and who people belong to is interesting. The French have another category 'hors classe". The film was society in 1966. Today there are many new arrivals from overseas that have a different perception of class. Hindus for example live under a rigid caste system and can be different according to how they sre perceived here. I don't know whether Rishi Sunak under the caste system was high or low but under the British system he is obviously Upper-class .
a@@damianfitzgerald1871
@ what a fantastic and informative reply. Thank you so much. It has made me understand a lot of my own situation actually. I don’t think I’ve ever realized it.
Personally, I’m from working class Irish parents, but I went to a private school. My wife’s parents are both from working class backgrounds but her father became incredibly successful and she went to several very high end boarding schools. Her parents divide their time between the English country and Scottish highlands salmon fishing. Her father is amazing at being able to converse with Lords and, well, me. He is considered ‘new money’ but also incredibly highly respected in the work he does for the land, the rivers, and has gun trained dogs etc. I’m realizing (through your post) how my situation means I’ve witnessed such an intersection of class without fully realizing what has been driving all of these differing views.
Everything you have written rings incredibly true. I’ve actually often struggled with how the working class perceive the upper class with much more vitriol than exists in the other direction.
I’m going to spend time researching more on this now. Thank you for taking the time to write such an informed and informative reply. It’s astounding to me that my parents and in-laws would have been 20ish when this show aired, and yet one generation later, I have spent my entire life unaware that this existed and still exists. Best,
In Australia during the sixties we were a bit mocking of the British class system and insisted it didn't exist in Australia (not true of course.) The old saying Jack was as good as his master was the the Aussie motto. Listening to those ladies classify people into classes with their posh upper class accents made me chuckle. Nevertheless, in the sixties Australia really was the lucky country and many of the UK migrants from that era i'm sure would agree.
Those women sound more upper middle class than upper class.
@@jameswillett7186yes, and one of them frankly sounds like a European who's learned to speak English very precisely.
Both B3 s
Mate, walk down
Walk down any street in Brighton and you will quickly see that a class system is alive and well in Australia. Its just that no body wants to admit it
I was 1 in 1966. Very different world.
gosh, you're still alive!!
Survived the WorkHouse!!@@MariadaPenhaRothschild
Youngster!
66 was the best year ever for music in my opinion
Me too!
It was becoming difficult in the mid '60s to classify people. These days, apart from the very lowest and the very highest echelons of society, the vast middling section is very difficult to categorize.
I never got the whole Keeping Up Appearances tv show, I always thought it was so odd, but seeing the nanny in this documentary helped me to see there must have been so many people like this in the UK back then.
Fascinating slice of society in mid 1960s. How life has changed - in many ways for the worse in terms of outlook.
2:17 - Looked like an 'upper class' couple, but didn't even use the correct side of the stairs lol
Proof that they were upper class. Rules are not for them.
1966: Is the BRITISH CLASS SYSTEM Changing? | Man Alive | Voice of the People | BBC Archive 1345pm 30.11.24 they were obviously liberal upper class couple and probably slept ion the wrong side of the bed, also... did you sit and wonder what class you were, children? i found myself to be unclassifiable and there are several mental breakdowns been induced in the guys who like to pigeon hole the chap to prove this... goodbye.
@@pierremartini2229😂😂😂
"ghastly plastic flowers" from the two survey women and then the awful snobbery of the nanny - what a horror show.
I'd sooner spend a day with Mrs. Herbert back in those days than a single second with the awful snobs.
Quite alarming just how condescending those times were.
The Nanny lived an ‘ordinary’ life. Large house and garden etc. lol ordinary people, like me, lived in council houses. Lol
I certainly wouldn’t describe the nanny as snob although I can see why some people who are quick to judge may get that impression. She was giving an honest account of her experiences whilst engaged as nanny by people from different social backgrounds. I don’t know why people take such offence at the slightest thing.
She was a ludicrious old snob. Doubtless a product of her time. People taking offence is of your invention. You say people are quick to judge when you just as quickly arrive at your own conclusion. Apart from lacking judgement, you just aren't very good when it comes to arguing a point.@JayArgonauts
@@brendanbrendan9435 We can only make inferences and judgments based on the facts available, and the fact is, whether you choose to accept it or not is irrelevant to me, the nanny, Miss Gordon, was, in this instance, commenting very candidly and openly on a particular demographic, not in a disparaging or mocking tone but honestly and truthfully. Perhaps you aren't so quick on the uptake or unable or unwilling to examine social issues impartially without being influenced by bias, resentment and prejudice. You label her as a ‘ludicrous old snob’ based on an interview lasting no more than four minutes which is poor judgment, and confirmation enough that you have nothing to add to the discussion beyond meaningless generalisations. The comments section is littered with nasty remarks by people who have taken offence because they are too thick to grasp the content, something you would know if you had perused the comments section. Get back to me when you can formulate a credible argument without resorting to petty insults because that attempt was risible.
@@JayArgonauts No one is offended, get a grip.
That was fantastic, I love you The Duffels
Very interesting take on class perceptions at the time.. exactly the year I was born!
Mrs Herbert is a lovely lady, oh yes I am also "E" , being born just after the war never had much, this served me very well in life.
The comprehensive school system was the worst thing that ever happened to me, we were told you are not sitting the 11+ you are all going to a comprehensive school........bloody awful !!😢
I have a lovely friend, we're now in our 70s. She definitely belonged to the upper class - she didn't know there was such a thing as the state school system until she was 22!!
I burst out laughing enough times that my hubby (a brit, born in Islington to a C2 family) made me rewind and we watched it together 😂
Very intellectual program wow
At 01:19, You can tell they're C2 "by the way they're carrying their luggage"...and some cynical people criticize Sociology for not being a serious science...
A great example of the beginning of the end of 'Great' Britain. Little wonder that countries such as the USA, Japan and Australia have flourished since the late 60s, in comparison.
Keep tugging that forelock
The beginning of the end for GB was during the Edwardian era IMHO.
That’s one bedroom flat The old woman lives in quick Street Islington just sold for £1,415,000
Waw 😮
In 2024, we have the 'social influencer'. Somebody with loads of money and zero class.
People like that are called Rich Riff Raff
The two ladies guessing 😂😂😂😂😂😂
But you all crap through the same 'ole as us dear ladies of a certain class.
"No, I don't think the Costa Brava would suit me at all..." - LOL
The claustrophobia of "class" was the one thing that got me to leave the UK in the mid-eighties. Awful place.
Interesting program. Jilly Coopers book “ Class “ is an interesting read.
Some people would love to return to these times
Mr. John Ryan was handsome and a sharp dresser. That could explain why people stared at him.
I’d love to know where these people all ended up! What happened to their kids? lol. I have a British friend whom I met during my year abroad in college. He had a solid upbringing w a father as a professor & then head master at a public school near Stratford.m on Avon. When we compared our lives in the 60s, growing up (we’re now both 72), I realized how truly terrible WWII affected the lives of Brits for decades after it ended!! In 1965 he lived as Americans lived in the 40s. Looking at his photos & hearing his stories, life was so much harder & times were very lean when he was a child. His pictures from his childhood actually looked like photos of my parents in the 1940s… examples being, his clothing, shoes, their prams and the toys they had.
The start of your comment about wanting to know what happened to these people
The lady who lived in quick street, Islington.
The Labour Party ❤Islington
Property in quick street sell for
£1.4 million, £1.8 million and more
The couple at the end with the fluffy dog and the baby
Peter Duffell
British Film and TV director
Born 1922 died 2017
His wife is Rosalyn Cliffe
Go to Wikipedia for full info
🇬🇧🇬🇧🏴🏴
I never thought of myself as a letter of the alphabet. I think of myself as a child of God. My worth has nothing to do with my performance or my income.
Thank goodness that we are alike unto God. His only concern is whether we are going to follow Him, whether we are living a clean, honest upright life.
The one on the left in the picture, how does she classify her dentist?
As non existant
I wondered about her teeth…the one on the left. Lol
Umm... I don’t really think dentistry was quite so advanced when this documentary was made so it seems like a pointless observation or rather a bitchy one because you dislike her comments.😂
@@JayArgonauts I understand that floride was not in use in the UK & that’s one reason Brit’s teeth were so bad years ago. That, and dental hygiene wasn’t practiced until 40 or so yrs ago … braces weren’t popular either.
@@cberry6751 Don t be ridiculous. People brushed their teeth !!! You must be american , always going on about other nation s teeth.
70-80 pounds a week was big money in 1966.
70 pounds in 66 had the buying power of 1600 pounds today. so he was minted really. Dumbed that last bit down so I would fit in.😂
Considering the first lady was getting by on 4 pounds a week
Man Alive had a wonderful theme tune. What is it?
Aye, it’s a fine tune. The theme was composed and played by Tony Hatch and his orchestra.
That poor wife handling two children on the staircase while husband disengaged and bored.
Can anyone translate the favourite meal of the army officer? Being a C2 I am stumped! 😀😀😀
Fondue Bourguignonne. It's Swiss apparantly.
@hilaryepstein6013 Thanks Hilary
Beef in cheese. Perhaps akin to a posh cheeseburger.
@@paulk1702 Haha ok thanks Paul
@@paulk1702 No, you’re thinking of Cheese Fondue, also French. In America, fondue pots were the go to gift in the 60s!!
That was hysterical and horrifying all at the same time!
I grew up in that era, I remember the snobbery well…..but those women were appalling, who are they to judge, the way they were taking people apart like they were specimens in a Petri dish, wild!
The school master saying “if a navvies’s boy came to school shovelling food in with his hands, instead of a knife and fork”, just shows the hideous and unrealistic ideas and misconceptions of the divide between classes.
I need a good cuppa after that!
A class of course! 🤣😂
Yes and I was treated at school like the devil sporn because I was left handed 😊
Fascinating how stereotyped everyone was back then. Very little original thought by any of the classes, almost brain washed into staying in their tier in life. Felt very sorry for the navvy who was looked down on because his clothes were dirty.
not so different now.people talk and live in stereotypes and bucket lists and now are slaves to tech. few real eccentrics
"Upper Class Twit of The Year" contest comes to mind...
There’s one thing I’ve noticed that distinguishes Brits from Americans & that the frequent use of the F word! I vacation a lot in the Uk & have since the 70s when I was a student. What I know to be true is that the F word seems to be used much more among all classes in Britain. When I watch British movies on Netflix, the word is used so much, that its meaning of frustration or disgust, is no longer valid.
Brits are exposed too much to Hollywood films, that's partly why.
As a Brit I find the use of the f word in our country is now normal for so many people but not as much as the movies depict it. Quite why the movie-makers think it so important for their characters to swear all the time is beyond me! The offensive c word is creeping in fast and furiously, sadly.
My adult children have never used either word in front of us - they wouldn't dream of it! We never used profanities in front of them. It's all about respect.
Their friends are the same. Our grandchildren certainly benefit by living within non-verbally aggressive households where they are loved, valued and respected. Their parents care hugely about what they're exposed to and what they are not exposed to, age appropriately.
We're not religious or anything, we simply care and believe in respect for one's fellow people.
Doesn’t know a budgie from a canary
12:00 that's quite clearly a canary
0:27 the bog
My ole gran would have been an E, I'd sooner know one of them, any day of the week.
That's just a different type of snobbery.
Couldn’t agree with you more ❤️ we were not caught up about class classifications. We took individuals as we found them, not how they spoke and enunciated words, or dressed!
How strange. Born into your place where you’ll stay for life, unless you move downwards. And always judged by everyone, just as you’re judging them.
I love St Pancras!
It's the 'middle classes' you feel sorry for, aspiring to be upper class which they know they can never be and terrified of becoming working class aware that they will never be happy. Poor middle class sods! 😂 and might I say without the working class there would be no middle or upper class!
In America, anyone can raise their class. A middle class person, such as Joe Biden, became a president, although not a very good one. A President in America is considered upper class…look at Obama!! He was very low class…according to his biography, born in Africa! I ran into a fellow recently whose dad was our bricklayer & farm helper. The guy is in his 40s & the owner of his own plumbing company & making big money. His class is still lowly, but to those who don’t know how he was raised, he’s now considered middle class.
Unbelievable that I grew up during such a blatantly judgmental period of history. Neither of these people did a day’s work in their lives unlike the poor souls living hand to mouth on soup and toast.
Mrs Herbert was lovely.
Had a chuckle at Ms Gordon being at the bottom of the rung, but still being an outright snob.
She was being Frank and honest, yes! Snobbish, no!
25:50 Yes, luv, we really believe you. Though Millions wouldn't. 🙄
It were so much easier when sumptuary laws were in place. Actually, scrap that, as they never really worked.
👏🏻
Loved the film but shocking back then people going around judging people would not get away with that now wounder what there houses were like
Why is Johnny Cash talking in a posh English accent? 😂😂
I don't like the class system I hated it in the sixties too
+1 My mother insisted on calling the toilet (French root) the lavatory (Latin?). She was full of snobbery although she was C1.
I left the country asap with the girl my mother didn't approve of in 1986 and never went back apart for a handful of visits. (P.S. just celebrated our 40th wedding anniversary). 🇫🇷
This is cringeworthy TV.
Here we're just immigrants and have French nationality since Brexit. 🇪🇺
Britain's obession with class, the royals, among other things is cringe-worthy.
Filmed where?
The one woman's disgust at artificial flowers, when today they are fashionable and pricey 🙄
My old mam always called it the shitter
I'm a Class E for sure.
A nanny, ie a servant, looking down her nose at ordinary people. If her faux posh voice had been genuine, she wouldn't have worked as a servant.
Toffee nosed
Sounds like she grew up in a affluent family but the money didnt last.
She obviously didn’t “marry within or above her class” or she’d have bettered her station in life.
Thanks to the slaughter of world war 1, there was a surplus of unmarried ladies in her generation who, despite their upper class background and good education, had no choice but to get paid jobs. Her posh voice isn't faux, thousands of women like her were badly let down.
Same as you. I clocked the nanny's faux-posh accent almost immediately!!😂
Ordinary people spoke so well back then, compared to how they do today!!!!!
And to me, we are all individuals, not classed and sitting in a box, but that's just me,
Interesting video
Shame we all don’t think that way.
The royal family in the UK should have been abolished after WWI… the class system is entirely sustained by the royals in 2024…
@@cberry6751 I totally agree with you there
It didn't, it just went under groud a bit,still very much alive and kicking!
Talk about judging a book by its cover.
I'm just here because I'm a fan of Pink Floyd.
Washing machines etc in the garden are a give away
E, lowest class living in Islington. Ha ha! You probably couldn't get a cupboard for under £1m around that area these days!
Olivia Colman's Ma there in the field.
Hello BBC Archive, do you by any chance have the ‘Man Alive’ programme on higher education from April 1969? I would love to see it - thanks in anticipation.
@@josieblackett5715 I’m sure they have all the man alive programs I’ve seen the education one the marriage in trouble one is my favourite
1966: Is the BRITISH CLASS SYSTEM Changing? | Man Alive | Voice of the People | BBC Archive 1321pm 20.11.24
-may i use the official study at the vicarage, please?
-pardon?
-your bog. can i use the bog?
Class is not real it’s in the mind
Everything is in the mind.
My Dad still calls it the dump.
It's the khaazi😅
Ghastly plastic flowers lol!!!
magicoal fire. 😂
The "Yawbs", "Snawbs" complex.