There’s no changing Ox’s opinion, even if you present facts to him he’s gonna say “aw man I don’t care about that because I just see it like this man it’s just no way your just a geek” Once he believes something anything that clearly disproves that is not the right way to evaluate basketball and it’s soft.
we are incapable of making a good list. Jokic stans are incapable of saying 'jokic defense is a problem' without the word but/however following instantly.
The way Swipa & Pen find excuses for Jokic's shortcomings is damn near dictatorial. When people critique his defense, a "I know but" always follows or "did you guys see what he did on offense?". Tatum has been torched by swipa the whole summer, even after his playoff run. At the beginning of the season, multiple shows were dedicated to Luka's defense. To this day, Lebron gets flogged because of his FT-%. Even Marz, who thinks Joker is the best player itw, has had pushbacks the moment he mentioned Joker's defense. It's okay to highlight ALL-TIMER flaws because they don't have a lot.
@@Fab_rice95 I think it’s getting a little out of hand to not be able to have honest conversations about jokic defence but I will say, if he starts to display a true strong indicator of very good positive value, he enters conversations no one thinks he should he reaches peaks only hit by the top 3-4 peaks in league history. I think that’s a little absurd of an expectation imo but his defence was some weak sauce yesterday
Bringing up Jokic is becoming Bron levels of annoying. It’s always a but, they deflect, or get moody and sarcastic. Like damn his defense isnt hood and it’s ok
@@rashonduswashington4025 so true bro. And i'm a bron fan btw. At some point it was impossible for a rational fan to critique bron. I think Jokic has suffered such immense slander before his Ring that fans n Media are trying to 'repay him' by not saying a lot against him.
My problem with Jokic stans like Swipa and Pen is that anytime you bring up Jokic’s flaws on defense it’s immediately followed by bringing up something his team “didn’t do”, but they’re quick to bring up Giannis’s offensive shortcomings, Luka’s defense, etc. They cry that Jokic gets held under the same microscope that they hold other players under. The 7 foot center get excused for being free eats at the rim because they don’t expect him to be good, but Giannis and others don’t get that bail.
pens literal argument was that he doesnt expect jokic to be a good rim protector the same way he doesnt expect giannis to be a good ft shooter, and swipa asked the entire panel to confirm he acknowledged jokers bad defense before he said the rest about westbrook cuz the comments are always like this not to say they dont try and add extra context every single time to explain it away, but that isnt the same as not acknowledging something
@@TheLoyalKey this jus isn’t true tho he’s 5th in deflections total 6th per game and not top 10 per 36. Though I don’t disagree that deflections are valuable I think it is interesting to note that nobody on planet earth pre jokic used deflections to determine how good a center is at defense.
Luka has 2 defensive breakdowns vs the jazz he gets FRIED BY EVERYONE even tho he’s given effort on defense all szn JOKIC has BACK TO BACK games being a CONE for the majority of the games and we haters? 😂😂😂
@@DamonDeal-m3hhe coaches kids bro, as long as he has the bigger faster kids he has a pretty good chance of winning 😂 he’s not actually Phil Jackson out there
I love Pen for his performances this week. First he said “L Mathsketball” and declared that some numbers are stupid then the pettiness to keep Jokic out of the GOAT tier. I couldn’t be happier
I agree with ox, draymond to me is just making basic reads out of the warriors motion read and react offense with a lot of action off the ball. For example a teammate will set a pin down screen for steph and 2 people will follow him and the person who set the screen will roll and be open, thats not that impressive. Those are basic reads, he’s not doing any kind of manipulation making advanced reads at all.
@@nykareem2001 I’m really just giving my honest analysis and calling it as I see it. He just reading and reacting to defenders making mistakes against the warriors off ball movement. There’s no advanced reads, advantage creation or manipulation when he’s passing. Not to say he’s a basic passer since the passes still have to be accurate and he’s able to do that. Maybe it’s not that impressive to me since I was point guard and I had to be able to do those certain things when I played.
Different standards because they aren't competing for the same spots. Jokic is competing with Hakeem and KG, Luka is trying to compete with Jordan and Lebron. Wait 2-3 more years and people will realise what they are witnessing.
@@Hamarin123456789 The conversation with Jokic, Hakeem and KG isn't been had in a wide scale, while Luka is definitely not yet in the conversation with Jordan and LeBron. If Luka wins 2 rings in the next 3 year, he will get closer to that conversation, but he won't be winning.
3:07:14 "Because he shoots more than Tyus Jones" if that was the case, then everyone with high volume FG attempts would be in the lower ranges of dribbles per touch, but unfortunately that's not the case. SGA is 3rd in this stat(2nd when only accounting for people with high volume touches), and 5th in FGA. Cade is 10th in FGA and 4th in dribbles(again, only counting people who touch the ball frequently). Tyrese Maxey, hella shot attempts and still hella dribbles per touch. The ACTUAL reason why Luka is TWENTY-FIFTH among high volume ball handlers in dribbles per touch, AND is outside the top 10 in touches per game, AND is outside the top 10 in time of possession, AND is well outside the top 10 in seconds per touch, is because he's simply not the dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble grenade tossing ballhog that for some reason the majority of the panel thinks he is The Dallas Mavericks are also near the bottom of the league in FGAs with 4 or less seconds left in the shotclock, 20th in the league in FGA with 7-4 seconds left, 12th in the league in FGA with 15-7 seconds left, 8th in the league in FGA with 18-15 seconds left(considered early in the shotclock) So compared to the rest of the league, the Mavs OBJECTIVELY do not take alot of shots at all late or near the end of the shot clock and take more shots early or in the middle of the shotclock than most teams in the NBA So this idea that Luka dribbles the air out the ball and stops the offense for the majority of the shotclock on most possessions just to pass it to a shooter with like 2.1secs left is not based in anything factual and is literally just an overreaction to the few times that it does happen throughout the 80+ times Luka touches the basketball in a game. Anyone being objective knows this Luka ballhog narrative is being drastically overblown
Luka is definitely a GOAT level passer. He is the best pick and roll passer ever he is the best ever when doubled in the pick and roll. He is so good a stringing that out.
@ should have said pick and roll player. Because his scoring in pick and roll. But he is the best at stringing out a double team because he can make every pass even the cross court passes
That’s a Facts, Luka for me is the best passer in the league, people underestimate that because of his greatness at scoring. Haliburton should never be mentioned in that type of discussion, dude is crap
Why are we hallucinating and blaming the Russ blow by on Jokic? I know you hate Jokic bro but we need common sense. If Jokic steps up any further he would trip Russ and get in his way. He knew Russ would recover and contest the shot. why are we like this?
I challenge anybody to find an episode of the Panel where Jordan has gave a great NBA take 😂. Apparently Luka and Jokic ara NOT all-time great NBA passers. Trae Young is a better passer than Jokic, and Andre Miller is a better passer than Luka. I guess people just ignore the ability to pass out of the post, the ability to see over defenders and throw passes over defenses, an aspect of passing that small guards don't have. "More assists= better passer". Elementary basketball takes man.
luka is a reactionary passer man. he not a visionary like dre miller. he passes at the last second its a whole bunch of grenades. hes not as good as y'all say. i just look at basketball different. people who played and people who didnt see the game different.
very very briefly not anything substantial. basically swipa said JT and zach went band for band and jt folded in the 4th and i said zach been nice people only been lookin at his contract
Y’all be letting Ron getting away with some nasty shit bro. Bro was talking about how the warriors were a top team and that they would beat the mavericks and grizzlies. And then the warriors get smacked by both of them and now he is saying the grizzlies are the best team in the west while flexing🤦
it’s not that often, but sometimes these episodes have 30 second to 1 minute moments where everyone is agreeing & contributing to a conversation. @ around 44:55
This beautiful moment of clarity only happened because i stopped talking. I 100% wanted to crash the party but the angel on my shoulder whispered to me and told me “relax bruh it’s just basketball”.
@MarzTalksSports wasn’t meant to be a knock on them Trae one of my favorite players and I also like Harden. I just think Cade is being treated a little unfair
I didnt watch the full episode yet but please tell me somebody bought up john wall. He was one of the best at finding corner 3pt shooter's, was one of the best in transition EVER and was great in the PNR
It wasn't even all time. It's just current players. It's a blatant click bait and nobody's talking about it. And this wasn't the only click bait recently.
Jokic told Jamal go help b4 Simons started his drive and He deliberately Disobeyed his commands and watch Russ get Smoked😂 And Jokic Just Shit the bed at the rim,but it shouldn’t have got to that point Deni avdija is multiple feet behind the 3 point line and we don’t instantly help is crazy,Jokic is outrageous for not even trying to help, that’s unacceptable
@@howitzdone8992 I nearly punched my phone I saw it happening 5 seconds before it did and I was yelling for Jokic to contest at the rim or someone to help in the driving lane
Hearing passer rating in basketball is disgusting to me. This is why analytics get made fun of because of stats like that. It’s crazy how some stats are made just to prove a point
What's better? Eye test? Assists? Assist to turnover? Passer rating is a decent measure of playmaking talent when factoring for turnovers, load and creation.
@@rashonduswashington4025 I mean every stat has deviation and are not meant to be objective number 3 is better than number 7. It’s just a stat to give you a general idea of players and factor in things the mind doesn’t immediately. (It’s a little more objective than Marz, chill or ox saying he’s better because I like how he passes out the post more) even though I don’t think you should take it at face value
@@DarnellJohnson504up that wasnt happening in the 2 minutes I was talking about he literally was just sitting there rolling his eyes and saying can we move on while they were talking
@@jalemjonesi wanted to finish the list and everyone was going in circles. (i acc have no idea what ur talking about but im 85% sure that explanation will fit)
I love ChlTwn but his protection on jokic is getting ridiculous!…just cuz he’s the best player doesn’t mean u can’t criticize him for not attending a block shot!
Swipa is wrong. This season AD has been outplayed Sabonis. Both times they played each other this season, AD showed out. But to say last night was the first time AD outplayed him since 2022 is just not true And of course he wants to blame russ on that last drive instead of jokic. Typical
Watched just about every dribble Russell Westbrook took on the court from 2013-2019. He’s not even in the same convo as Luka as a passer/playmaker. He sure as as hell is better than Pen says, but he’s not what Ron says he is either. He’s a top 30 playmaker of all time. Not top 15-20 though. Which is what Luka is.
I know its been awhile since we seen wall play elite basketball but lets not get carried away , Wall did alot with a little , came in as a rookie and avg 8 apg with Nick Young as his team’s #1 guy , Jared Dudley said he was a better passer than Steve Nash , Wall got numerous mid wings paid and majority of them shot career highs from 3 with John Wall , Beal aint been an elite 3p shooter since Wall went down in DC , Hali not fuckin wit Wall , Wall made some fucking amazing passes
@MarzTalksSports no sir , them basic ass passes , Wall had Gortat looking like an allstar big man and Paul pierce found the fountain of youth in DC playing with Wall
@ the “stats” don’t show B. The “stats” are easily skewed and manipulated. Maybe you need numbers to convince you that you see what you’re seeing but I know what I’m looking at without basketball reference.
Why is it that Jordan has to say something insane every episode. The grenade launcher thing Marz disproved with actual facts that your eyes are lying to you (happens in many things, conformation bias and so on) And Luka is definitely a GOAT level passer. He is the best pick and roll passer ever he is the best ever when doubled in the pick and roll
@ if you call someone a grenade launcher but then find out they don’t in reality launch that many grenades. Aren’t you then wrong if Luka is a grenade launcher and 100 players throw more grenades than him then we need to call 100 other players grenade launchers. If the numbers actually tell you he doesn’t throw that many grenades shouldn’t you look if your eyes might be deceiving you which happens for everyone there is a whole science dedicated to it.
Not even a crazy LeBron fan but could u imagine if Bron only scored 2 points in a 50 point loss…. Folks would be gettin on him like crazy but wit Steph we just chuck it up as a loss 😭
There are some things I like about this list but biggest disagreements are: 1. Ingram being a basic passer is crazy. He should be good at least. 2. Cade should be in the great category and is borderline elite. 3. Luka and Jokic not being GOAT passers is dumb. 4. And putting Bam and Hali in the same tier as passers was a nasty take from Chill. 5. Jamal Murray is the definition of basic passer.
@@tusharbisht6832 I would disagree. Luka has the special ability to make any reads out the pick n roll, one of the best cross/skip passers of all time also. He’s a big guard so when he touches the paint, he also sets rolling bigs with lobs. All time great Lob passer as well. No idea why he wouldn’t be considered one of the goat passers, there isn’t a pass he can’t make lol
@@tusharbisht6832like u can’t tell me luka ain’t reach Jokic heights, when we seen that wolves series he completely dissected that defense. Shredded them into pieces
@Implementingdynamics exactly there is not a single pass in a single situation luka can't pull off where a drive and kick to the side or even backwards,pick and roll lob,full court lobs or backdoor cuts name it and Lukas done it multiple times
Jokic is my favorite player in the league and to me is a top 10 player, however he is not good on defense and sometimes really bad. I dont understand why we can’t acknowledge that its so annoying. The only reason people dont wanna say it is because then he cant be best in the league or top 10 thats it
@@mom3ntousjatt I think his rim protection sucks and tbh this year he’s been worse on the defensive end than recent times but I wouldn’t say he’s outwardly bad though I think neutral is a good stand to take. Also let’s see how it translates to the playoffs, if he’s this their I will outwardly says it’s bad but if he recovers from this I think it’s fine. People really just want in the moment reactions, these defensive mistakes are very fixable and I expect in the playoffs we don’t have such errors people need to chill a little on both ends of the arguement
Irrelevant. He still had to make the shots. And he didn’t it pretty good efficiency at that crazy volume. And then he got to the league and it didn’t change. He was still unstoppable.
Any all time passer list without Larry Legend in the top 5 is instantly null and void. Anyway Brad Stevens said of Irving when he was on the Celtics: "Kyrie is the best passer I've ever seen on a basketball court." Food for thought from a valued mind. Most people say Kyrie can't pass because of his paltry assist numbers. He sees pictures out there for sure that others don't.
@ I like it but I think you are overrating Kidd and Chris Paul slightly, not because I don’t think their incredible but I feel a tier below the rest, even James I’m not sure about being over bird in all honesty but I understand on ball passers get favoured in these convos and I can understand having bird below them Good list My Mount Rushmore is magic Nash joker bird though if that’s wasn’t obvious aha
People keep saying that the NBA is losing viewership or that the games are bad. But they don't talk about how weak these commentators (also on RUclips) are. After yesterday's Wemby game, they talk about it for 1 minute and then start pointless debates. This is ridiculous!
Let me guess... it was not Joker fault and it was actually Luka's fault? I know if there was a possibilty to connect the dots who would get blamed, thankfully Luka can't be blamed for that, logically. To me Joker is absolutely in a top 10 OAT talks, but he is not on Luka's level, Luka is and will always be in GOAT talks. Different level, accept it, haters.
man im so tired of the luka disrespect luka should easily be above everyone not named jokic and should EASILY be top 6 passers ever lol. He's the best pick and roll playmaker ever IMO cuz he can pass thru the double team if they blitz can make skip passes with ease can make lob passes with ease. He's the best lob passer today(even better than trae lmfao).
So was this list based on passing or playmaking? I thought we all had come to the understanding by now that those aren’t the same thing. Josh Giddey is an elite-great level passer. He’s not even a good playmaker though.
Idk how marz does it with Jordan. Jordan He says some of the stupidest things I’ve seen. Pen does sometimes but at least pen explains his views but my god Jordan coaches? Gah damn 😂
@@daelin9759hes saying ur waiting for longevity based on ur 'once they put the time in' statement and not just the quality of passer they are. if peak magic johnson was a rookie this season why would i have to wait 8 years to say hes a goat tier passer?
@MarzTalksSports so in other words he’s whining over trivial details. I’m basically saying that they will definitely be there once they put that time in. The reason why I’m waiting is so that I have a larger sample size for both the playoffs and regular season so I have more evidence to stand on when I’m saying they belong up there with those other names. Based on his logic, if sample size/ longevity don’t matter, I have some nasty propaganda to push about Penny Hardaway in these top PG conversations.
I remember Marz saying Curry is a very portable player that can fit with anybody and I disagree with that and I feel it’s 🧢. The Warriors getting blown out by the Grizzlies yesterday are signs of times to come for this team and it’s due to Curry not fitting with Dennis Schröder. Schroder is a bad fit for GS and GS should’ve never traded for him. Curry can’t fit with ball dominant PGs and GS should’ve known this back in 2020 when the D’lo and Curry backcourt didn’t fit even before Curry broke his wrist. CP3 didn’t really fit that well either. Jordan Poole was a ball dominant PG but he came off the bench & Poole had a similar style to Curry who moves often without the ball and can create off the dribble. Curry fits with Draymond being the PG and playing 2 man game with him but other ball dominant PGs are awkward fits with Curry. But my point is that the narrative of Curry fitting with everybody is simply not true. Only players that can fit with anybody is KD, Jokic, Kawhi and a few others but I won’t put Curry up there. You may not need as many specific players around Curry like you do LeBron & Giannis who are slashers and need specific 3&D players around them but Curry is a unique player that needs certain players that compliment his skillset
@@howitzdone8992 I could be wrong but I don’t see the Curry and Schroder backcourt working out. I just don’t like the notion that Curry can fit with everybody just cause of his offball movement, offball movement can be overrated. Curry doesn’t just come off of simple curls & pindowns, there’s a certain rhythm and way Curry gets the ball from his offball movement and scores. Also, Curry isn’t like Reggie & Ray Allen(not talking bout Milwaukee Allen who was more of a slasher) who just moves without the ball without the threat of doing things with onball creation. Curry is the few players that does the offball action & onball action simultaneously where he’s constantly relocating to score after he gets the ball from offball movement. Offball movement being the end all be all to how a player can fit well with others and be portable is BS and Marz doesn’t know what he’s talking about when he says that
That idea comes from Thinking Basketball and ppl just ran with it. Portability is such a flawed concept. Every star needs a team crafted to their strengths and weaknesses.
@@nykareem2001 I’m even skeptical if Jokic can fit with everybody like that. Jokic has a certain way to play where there’s a rhythm in which he does 2 man game with a Murray or any other PG where it’s DHOs and pick & rolls where its a cat & mouse game to constantly manipulate the D and the primary ball handler has to be on the same page as Jokic. I feel only KD & Kawhi can fit with everybody cause their big 2 way wings that are elite shooters and are versatile. With KD & Kawhi, u can use them as bigs where they pop or roll to the rim after setting a screen or they can be traditional wings where they catch off the wing & ISO from the top of the key. They move without the ball. They can catch the ball from the post & score, catch the ball at the nail or elbow & score, they can spot up from 3, get to the rim off the dribble and they both use the midrange. Also, they bring the ball up as the point even though that’s not their best strong suit, they have the ability to do that. But your right, Ben Taylor fooled people into narrow way of thinking when it comes to portability but there’s more nuance to it then that
In far from a joker Stan but everyone is kinda right. When LeBron was in his prime. U couldn’t bring up any of his flaws or your seen as a skip bayless fan. But if u call him top 2 all time your a glazer. It goes both ways just dependent of the analysis
I remember Marz saying Curry is a very portable player that can fit with anybody and I disagree with that and I feel it’s 🧢. The Warriors getting blown out by the Grizzlies yesterday are signs of times to come for this team and it’s due to Curry not fitting with Dennis Schröder. Schroder is a bad fit for GS and GS should’ve never traded for him. Curry can’t fit with ball dominant PGs and GS should’ve known this back in 2020 when the D’lo and Curry backcourt didn’t fit even before Curry broke his wrist. CP3 didn’t really fit that well either. Jordan Poole was a ball dominant PG but he came off the bench & Poole had a similar style to Curry who moves often without the ball and can create off the dribble. Curry fits with Draymond being the PG and playing 2 man game with him but other ball dominant PGs are awkward fits with Curry. But my point is that the narrative of Curry fitting with everybody is simply not true. Only players that can fit with anybody is KD, Jokic, Kawhi and a few others but I won’t put Curry up there. You may not need as many specific players around Curry like you do LeBron & Giannis who are slashers and need specific 3&D players around them but Curry is a unique player that needs certain players that compliment his skillset
There’s no changing Ox’s opinion, even if you present facts to him he’s gonna say “aw man I don’t care about that because I just see it like this man it’s just no way your just a geek” Once he believes something anything that clearly disproves that is not the right way to evaluate basketball and it’s soft.
No fr who’s looking at the Timberwolves and seeing a problem with the coaching not the personnel…
@@JustEmansit’s because he doesn’t want to say it’s because they can’t shoot because that would go against his “ you don’t need 3s” narrative
That Stubborn Big Ass Ox..
we are incapable of making a good list.
Jokic stans are incapable of saying 'jokic defense is a problem' without the word but/however following instantly.
Scottie Barnes is great to elite. This list is cooked
but when luka made that lapse in defense against the jazz, it was OVER. i’ll never forget the slander luka received that day.
Darius made the great tier so im fine with. Should’ve been higher but im cool. The BI basic shit would’ve had me mad too marz.
Marz Luka or John Stockton as a passer
@@betweendalinesnbapodcast3733that was unironically the one that annoyed me the most
The way Swipa & Pen find excuses for Jokic's shortcomings is damn near dictatorial. When people critique his defense, a "I know but" always follows or "did you guys see what he did on offense?". Tatum has been torched by swipa the whole summer, even after his playoff run. At the beginning of the season, multiple shows were dedicated to Luka's defense. To this day, Lebron gets flogged because of his FT-%. Even Marz, who thinks Joker is the best player itw, has had pushbacks the moment he mentioned Joker's defense.
It's okay to highlight ALL-TIMER flaws because they don't have a lot.
@@Fab_rice95 I think it’s getting a little out of hand to not be able to have honest conversations about jokic defence but I will say, if he starts to display a true strong indicator of very good positive value, he enters conversations no one thinks he should he reaches peaks only hit by the top 3-4 peaks in league history.
I think that’s a little absurd of an expectation imo but his defence was some weak sauce yesterday
Bringing up Jokic is becoming Bron levels of annoying. It’s always a but, they deflect, or get moody and sarcastic. Like damn his defense isnt hood and it’s ok
@@rashonduswashington4025 so true bro. And i'm a bron fan btw. At some point it was impossible for a rational fan to critique bron. I think Jokic has suffered such immense slander before his Ring that fans n Media are trying to 'repay him' by not saying a lot against him.
So stop then. Simple solution imo
Please don't mention Jokic in the same sentence with that pathetic choker, statpadder and ring chaser
@@Fab_rice95 slander? We can call it slander lol
My problem with Jokic stans like Swipa and Pen is that anytime you bring up Jokic’s flaws on defense it’s immediately followed by bringing up something his team “didn’t do”, but they’re quick to bring up Giannis’s offensive shortcomings, Luka’s defense, etc. They cry that Jokic gets held under the same microscope that they hold other players under. The 7 foot center get excused for being free eats at the rim because they don’t expect him to be good, but Giannis and others don’t get that bail.
They're annoying tbh
Facts and as bad as swipa is as a NUGGETS FAN Pen is somehow worse shit is insane 😭😭😭
pens literal argument was that he doesnt expect jokic to be a good rim protector the same way he doesnt expect giannis to be a good ft shooter, and swipa asked the entire panel to confirm he acknowledged jokers bad defense before he said the rest about westbrook cuz the comments are always like this
not to say they dont try and add extra context every single time to explain it away, but that isnt the same as not acknowledging something
Jokic has been good defensively 😂 most deflections in the league and tops in steals your take is questionable at best lol
@@TheLoyalKey this jus isn’t true tho he’s 5th in deflections total 6th per game and not top 10 per 36. Though I don’t disagree that deflections are valuable I think it is interesting to note that nobody on planet earth pre jokic used deflections to determine how good a center is at defense.
Luka has 2 defensive breakdowns vs the jazz he gets FRIED BY EVERYONE even tho he’s given effort on defense all szn
JOKIC has BACK TO BACK games being a CONE for the majority of the games and we haters? 😂😂😂
I’ve been sayin the standards not the same but mfers kept saying I was trippin
All I've heard is people blame Jokic but the people who blame him say that nobody is blaming him @@TheSage1123
You don’t haft to cap about Luka
Jokic is the only person to not get hate because he puts up triple doubles every night being guarded by 6’9 pfs 😂
Can’t win smh. Can’t fucking win
Jordan and Ox were once again battling for who could sound the most idiotic this episode 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Jordan coaches though doesn’t he? Idk how he’s this bad 🤦🏽
@@DamonDeal-m3hhe coaches kids bro, as long as he has the bigger faster kids he has a pretty good chance of winning 😂 he’s not actually Phil Jackson out there
I better not see another Kat and Julius Randle Conversation again in my life
Nah pen is hilarious for not putting Joker GOAT tier just to be petty 😂😂😂 Ox was so damn proud 😂😂
I love Pen for his performances this week. First he said “L Mathsketball” and declared that some numbers are stupid then the pettiness to keep Jokic out of the GOAT tier. I couldn’t be happier
I agree with ox, draymond to me is just making basic reads out of the warriors motion read and react offense with a lot of action off the ball. For example a teammate will set a pin down screen for steph and 2 people will follow him and the person who set the screen will roll and be open, thats not that impressive. Those are basic reads, he’s not doing any kind of manipulation making advanced reads at all.
Be careful bro, pointing out the obvious is considered hate now in 2024
You’re just diminishing draymond to prop up Steph. Dray’s passing made Steph an all time great 👍
@@BIGOXMedia Hmm. So, then I say the title isn't a clickbait.
@@nykareem2001 I’m really just giving my honest analysis and calling it as I see it. He just reading and reacting to defenders making mistakes against the warriors off ball movement. There’s no advanced reads, advantage creation or manipulation when he’s passing. Not to say he’s a basic passer since the passes still have to be accurate and he’s able to do that. Maybe it’s not that impressive to me since I was point guard and I had to be able to do those certain things when I played.
Draymond should’ve been traded after the Poole incident Lmaoo
bro chill does not watch games man, 2 minutes in and he says Jalen Suggs did a good job on Shai when Shais primary defender was KCP
chill out
fax he is just talking and yapping
Suggs primary was j dub 😭😭 he don’t watch any games bro I peeped that too
Chill is not good at analyzing basketball, he’s amazing at remembering facts and remembering when moments and things happened in the league.
Steph below Murray, shai, bam, garland and Kyrie as a passer is hilarious.
whats the problem with garland?
Garland is Obvious
Garland went to CP3 camps, he’s one of the best passers itl.
Steph is a mid playmaker as of rn
“GOAT shooter” somehow undermined his all round skill set. It’s crazy.
Why pen waited till swipa left to start talking shit 😂😂😂
I was mid talking shit when he left.
Marz silent reactions are GOAT level
I can’t tell if Ox really believes what he says or if he’s just rage baiting 😂😂 I refuse to believe he’s this off at evaluating basketball and
Aint no way chill is protecting jokic but when it comes to Luka 😅😂😂😂
Luka gets critiqued harder than jokic, is set to to a higher standard and jokic is the better player. I think that’s interesting
Different standards because they aren't competing for the same spots.
Jokic is competing with Hakeem and KG, Luka is trying to compete with Jordan and Lebron.
Wait 2-3 more years and people will realise what they are witnessing.
@@Hamarin123456789 The conversation with Jokic, Hakeem and KG isn't been had in a wide scale, while Luka is definitely not yet in the conversation with Jordan and LeBron. If Luka wins 2 rings in the next 3 year, he will get closer to that conversation, but he won't be winning.
W Players Choice I love this channel! Happy Holidays fellas
I love how pen finish 🤣🤣🤣🤣 the sadness on swipa is priceless 😁😁
3:07:14 "Because he shoots more than Tyus Jones" if that was the case, then everyone with high volume FG attempts would be in the lower ranges of dribbles per touch, but unfortunately that's not the case. SGA is 3rd in this stat(2nd when only accounting for people with high volume touches), and 5th in FGA. Cade is 10th in FGA and 4th in dribbles(again, only counting people who touch the ball frequently). Tyrese Maxey, hella shot attempts and still hella dribbles per touch.
The ACTUAL reason why Luka is TWENTY-FIFTH among high volume ball handlers in dribbles per touch, AND is outside the top 10 in touches per game, AND is outside the top 10 in time of possession, AND is well outside the top 10 in seconds per touch, is because he's simply not the dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble grenade tossing ballhog that for some reason the majority of the panel thinks he is
The Dallas Mavericks are also near the bottom of the league in FGAs with 4 or less seconds left in the shotclock, 20th in the league in FGA with 7-4 seconds left, 12th in the league in FGA with 15-7 seconds left, 8th in the league in FGA with 18-15 seconds left(considered early in the shotclock)
So compared to the rest of the league, the Mavs OBJECTIVELY do not take alot of shots at all late or near the end of the shot clock and take more shots early or in the middle of the shotclock than most teams in the NBA
So this idea that Luka dribbles the air out the ball and stops the offense for the majority of the shotclock on most possessions just to pass it to a shooter with like 2.1secs left is not based in anything factual and is literally just an overreaction to the few times that it does happen throughout the 80+ times Luka touches the basketball in a game.
Anyone being objective knows this Luka ballhog narrative is being drastically overblown
L mathsketball
I hope we’ve learned to not take Ox’s opinion seriously about jokic and luka
Jordan’s irrational confidence is to be commended. Consistently making dog shit takes 😤💯
Devote your life to something. You can have that same level of confidence too.
@@pensarebasketballtalk heavy pen!!!!
No cap😂😂😂😂😂😂
Love how swipa disregards deflects jokic problems but exemplifies Giannis’s
Amplifies
Luka is definitely a GOAT level passer. He is the best pick and roll passer ever he is the best ever when doubled in the pick and roll. He is so good a stringing that out.
steve nash>
@ should have said pick and roll player. Because his scoring in pick and roll.
But he is the best at stringing out a double team because he can make every pass even the cross court passes
Harden >
That’s a Facts, Luka for me is the best passer in the league, people underestimate that because of his greatness at scoring. Haliburton should never be mentioned in that type of discussion, dude is crap
It’s Jordan and Ox who we talking bout bro😂 doesn’t even matter
All the starting panelist on today is a crazy good show 🔥🔥
Love how Ron being more accountable for yall scattered convos!!!
Might b the first time I heard my boy Pen laugh out loud. Love this show man
he did it a couple shows ago aswell lol finally showed some personality lol
I don’t see the same thing some of yall see, some of yall don’t see the same thing I see. Im not here for everybody and that’s ok.
Ox how you feeling about melo shooting 18 3s and wemby shooting 15 when hes 7’4? Lol
@ Lol, I hate it. Wemby tried to sell last night
Why are we hallucinating and blaming the Russ blow by on Jokic? I know you hate Jokic bro but we need common sense. If Jokic steps up any further he would trip Russ and get in his way. He knew Russ would recover and contest the shot. why are we like this?
@@wolfof He would trip Russ? Lol yall are funny.
@@BIGOXMedia You sadly dont know ball and dont understand basic human physics.
Ron please turn your mic down by like 10-15 percent
I challenge anybody to find an episode of the Panel where Jordan has gave a great NBA take 😂. Apparently Luka and Jokic ara NOT all-time great NBA passers. Trae Young is a better passer than Jokic, and Andre Miller is a better passer than Luka. I guess people just ignore the ability to pass out of the post, the ability to see over defenders and throw passes over defenses, an aspect of passing that small guards don't have. "More assists= better passer". Elementary basketball takes man.
luka is a reactionary passer man. he not a visionary like dre miller. he passes at the last second its a whole bunch of grenades. hes not as good as y'all say. i just look at basketball different. people who played and people who didnt see the game different.
@MarzTalksSports ay man "he throws grenades". Even though that's already been debunked with factual statistical evidence.
@@jeremiahsmith7706as ox would say “L masketball”
@MarzTalksSportsI've been watching basketball all my life🤓
Luka and Jokic are both Top 10 passers ever. Also Luka is a better passer than Harden too.
What’s good with buddy & Scottie Barnes.. I’m afraid I’m not seeing what he’s seeing
Jordan has me laughing randomly throught the whole episode 😂😂 2:19:31 "basic as hell with that big ass head" 😂😂😂😂😂
Any timestamps on if there were any zach lavine conversations?
very very briefly not anything substantial. basically swipa said JT and zach went band for band and jt folded in the 4th and i said zach been nice people only been lookin at his contract
I was looking for Zack compliments too lol
16:23 I want people to come back to this clip every time someone bring up Kobe’s efficiency. Cause people talk like it was him and 4 Ray Allen’s
Y’all be letting Ron getting away with some nasty shit bro. Bro was talking about how the warriors were a top team and that they would beat the mavericks and grizzlies. And then the warriors get smacked by both of them and now he is saying the grizzlies are the best team in the west while flexing🤦
No one takes him seriously
💪💪💪
it’s not that often, but sometimes these episodes have 30 second to 1 minute moments where everyone is agreeing & contributing to a conversation. @ around 44:55
those moments are beautiful.
This beautiful moment of clarity only happened because i stopped talking. I 100% wanted to crash the party but the angel on my shoulder whispered to me and told me “relax bruh it’s just basketball”.
@ haha man the self awareness is commendable brody 🫡
Cade not a great passer because he's third in the league in turnovers, but Trae and Harden can average more turnovers and be considered elite.
yeah
W Cade and W Harden also go pistons and lions
@@MOE__ lions going all the way despite the injuries
chill on harden and trae
@MarzTalksSports wasn’t meant to be a knock on them Trae one of my favorite players and I also like Harden. I just think Cade is being treated a little unfair
lol man someone timestamp when Chill said he goin have a stroke 😂😂 and Marz said that’s ur problem 😭😭😭 an then Penn said that’s harsh 🤣🤣🤣
you can tell some of them dont wach the game and just say anything or repeat what someone else says.
Facts 😂
I didnt watch the full episode yet but please tell me somebody bought up john wall. He was one of the best at finding corner 3pt shooter's, was one of the best in transition EVER and was great in the PNR
It wasn't even all time. It's just current players. It's a blatant click bait and nobody's talking about it. And this wasn't the only click bait recently.
Almost broke my thumb clicking out the video when they left Penn up there solo
Lmao 😂
Then came back…
😂😂
Jokic told Jamal go help b4 Simons started his drive and He deliberately Disobeyed his commands and watch Russ get Smoked😂 And Jokic Just Shit the bed at the rim,but it shouldn’t have got to that point Deni avdija is multiple feet behind the 3 point line and we don’t instantly help is crazy,Jokic is outrageous for not even trying to help, that’s unacceptable
@@howitzdone8992 I nearly punched my phone I saw it happening 5 seconds before it did and I was yelling for Jokic to contest at the rim or someone to help in the driving lane
Hope all of your children fall in love with prize picks head over heels.
Hearing passer rating in basketball is disgusting to me. This is why analytics get made fun of because of stats like that. It’s crazy how some stats are made just to prove a point
I mean respectfully passer rating is more objective than any random on the internets opinion, even though I don’t agree with the stat fully
@ I’m just saying overall you bring io passer rating ppl gonna think football and look at you crazy. Doesn’t that stat mostly benefit taller players?
What's better? Eye test? Assists? Assist to turnover? Passer rating is a decent measure of playmaking talent when factoring for turnovers, load and creation.
@@rashonduswashington4025 I mean every stat has deviation and are not meant to be objective number 3 is better than number 7. It’s just a stat to give you a general idea of players and factor in things the mind doesn’t immediately.
(It’s a little more objective than Marz, chill or ox saying he’s better because I like how he passes out the post more) even though I don’t think you should take it at face value
the stat was valid the moment it had ben simmons number 1. i heard enough
Mars always get sassy when someone has an opinion wtf 😂
If someone is telling you 2+2=5 for a week straight are you not gonna be annoyed by the end of the week?
@ no everyone has their on opinion you don’t have to roll your eyes and try and get them off the topic
@@jalemjonesIf someone is just obviously wrong I think it’s ok to call them on it tho… especially if their attempting to say your viewpoint is wrong
@@DarnellJohnson504up that wasnt happening in the 2 minutes I was talking about he literally was just sitting there rolling his eyes and saying can we move on while they were talking
@@jalemjonesi wanted to finish the list and everyone was going in circles. (i acc have no idea what ur talking about but im 85% sure that explanation will fit)
Is Monk really like that or they trolling? Ima have to check up on him
I love ChlTwn but his protection on jokic is getting ridiculous!…just cuz he’s the best player doesn’t mean u can’t criticize him for not attending a block shot!
Especially because before the chip, he wasn’t even the best passing big man. The flip switched crazy after
Scottie is a great passer
Very good list
Marz has the patience of a 8 year old I personally would like to hear other people’s opinions without Marz rushing to the next name lol
He makes the show worse classic narcissist
Yeah lets not finish the list to keep going in circles about jokic who we talk about every other day. L patience
No one else up here besides sometimes swipa and chill even know what their talking about anyway so idk why u want to listen to their opinions so bad…
Idgaf about money, the wolves trading kat was the worst thing this season.
Jokic is perfect the way he is.
Not enough GRIZZLIES talk
1:38:34
Ja not being elite had me heated the whole list😭💀
I blame everybody on the nuggets not named MPJ on that last possession
The Draymond green and josh giddey debate was the most unnecessary thing yall ever did 😂
Swipa is wrong. This season AD has been outplayed Sabonis. Both times they played each other this season, AD showed out. But to say last night was the first time AD outplayed him since 2022 is just not true
And of course he wants to blame russ on that last drive instead of jokic. Typical
Watched just about every dribble Russell Westbrook took on the court from 2013-2019. He’s not even in the same convo as Luka as a passer/playmaker. He sure as as hell is better than Pen says, but he’s not what Ron says he is either. He’s a top 30 playmaker of all time. Not top 15-20 though. Which is what Luka is.
“Respect all strokes” 😂😂😂 qoty
Ayyyyyyooo
I know its been awhile since we seen wall play elite basketball but lets not get carried away , Wall did alot with a little , came in as a rookie and avg 8 apg with Nick Young as his team’s #1 guy , Jared Dudley said he was a better passer than Steve Nash , Wall got numerous mid wings paid and majority of them shot career highs from 3 with John Wall , Beal aint been an elite 3p shooter since Wall went down in DC , Hali not fuckin wit Wall , Wall made some fucking amazing passes
yes he did. hali better
@MarzTalksSports no sir , them basic ass passes , Wall had Gortat looking like an allstar big man and Paul pierce found the fountain of youth in DC playing with Wall
@@moneyman4740hali>
Dang man 🤦🏽♂️ another episode where ox couldn’t make 1 good take
2:38:10
“Why do we do the per 100 possession thing?”
Because we are rating passing we aren’t rating minutes player. Jesus Christ!!
W list Harden a Goat passer and Russ a elite passer
Facts 💯
Russ>>>Both guys named James
Luka doesn’t even throw grenades lmao he shoots them 😭😭 I swr Marz debunked this already
He didn’t debunk this, he threw some numbers at yall and you fell for it. I expect yall to fall for that everytime but I never will.
@@BIGOXMediaL mathsketball
@@BIGOXMediaif ur eyes see "A" something and other people's eyes see "B" and then the Stats which can't be biased also see "B" then who is right?
@ the “stats” don’t show B. The “stats” are easily skewed and manipulated. Maybe you need numbers to convince you that you see what you’re seeing but I know what I’m looking at without basketball reference.
@BIGOXMedia can you exactly explain how that specific stat that marz stated Is manipulated I'd like to hear it
Why is it that Jordan has to say something insane every episode.
The grenade launcher thing Marz disproved with actual facts that your eyes are lying to you (happens in many things, conformation bias and so on)
And Luka is definitely a GOAT level passer. He is the best pick and roll passer ever he is the best ever when doubled in the pick and roll
Marz proved that to YOU… a fan of marz
@ if you call someone a grenade launcher but then find out they don’t in reality launch that many grenades. Aren’t you then wrong if Luka is a grenade launcher and 100 players throw more grenades than him then we need to call 100 other players grenade launchers.
If the numbers actually tell you he doesn’t throw that many grenades shouldn’t you look if your eyes might be deceiving you which happens for everyone there is a whole science dedicated to it.
@@drenchmansportshow come u can never back your takes up with actual FACTS
Not even a crazy LeBron fan but could u imagine if Bron only scored 2 points in a 50 point loss…. Folks would be gettin on him like crazy but wit Steph we just chuck it up as a loss 😭
There are some things I like about this list but biggest disagreements are:
1. Ingram being a basic passer is crazy. He should be good at least.
2. Cade should be in the great category and is borderline elite.
3. Luka and Jokic not being GOAT passers is dumb.
4. And putting Bam and Hali in the same tier as passers was a nasty take from Chill.
5. Jamal Murray is the definition of basic passer.
Luka probably isn’t a goat passer, only Jokic is todays game imo reaches the heights of bird and magic
Luka a tier below
@@tusharbisht6832 I would disagree. Luka has the special ability to make any reads out the pick n roll, one of the best cross/skip passers of all time also. He’s a big guard so when he touches the paint, he also sets rolling bigs with lobs. All time great Lob passer as well. No idea why he wouldn’t be considered one of the goat passers, there isn’t a pass he can’t make lol
@@tusharbisht6832like u can’t tell me luka ain’t reach Jokic heights, when we seen that wolves series he completely dissected that defense. Shredded them into pieces
Perfectly said but I think you can put Jamal in good.
@Implementingdynamics exactly there is not a single pass in a single situation luka can't pull off where a drive and kick to the side or even backwards,pick and roll lob,full court lobs or backdoor cuts name it and Lukas done it multiple times
17 Durant or 07 Kobe who y’all got?
07 Kobe
@@zuridurham3727 17 Durant but overall Kobe had a better peak to me
Jokic is my favorite player in the league and to me is a top 10 player, however he is not good on defense and sometimes really bad. I dont understand why we can’t acknowledge that its so annoying. The only reason people dont wanna say it is because then he cant be best in the league or top 10 thats it
@@mom3ntousjatt I think his rim protection sucks and tbh this year he’s been worse on the defensive end than recent times but I wouldn’t say he’s outwardly bad though I think neutral is a good stand to take. Also let’s see how it translates to the playoffs, if he’s this their I will outwardly says it’s bad but if he recovers from this I think it’s fine.
People really just want in the moment reactions, these defensive mistakes are very fixable and I expect in the playoffs we don’t have such errors people need to chill a little on both ends of the arguement
@ he usually turns it up during the playoffs, but then again so does the rest of the team so he don’t look too bad
W show and L swipa just because
You all don't understand why pistol averaged alot in college clearly. The team was built for him to take dam near all the shots
Irrelevant. He still had to make the shots. And he didn’t it pretty good efficiency at that crazy volume. And then he got to the league and it didn’t change. He was still unstoppable.
loved the episode till jordan and pen hopped on the mic how hard is it to find people that dont have a negative effect on the show
😂😂😂😂😂😂
"y'all are making me not like Derrick White" -Ox the Hater
It’s not so much Derrick White I’m starting not to like it’s really them hyping Derrick White. Sometimes I hate these guys 😂
Any all time passer list without Larry Legend in the top 5 is instantly null and void. Anyway Brad Stevens said of Irving when he was on the Celtics: "Kyrie is the best passer I've ever seen on a basketball court." Food for thought from a valued mind. Most people say Kyrie can't pass because of his paltry assist numbers. He sees pictures out there for sure that others don't.
Not in my top 5 He top 7 tho
@@howitzdone8992 that’s interesting who the 6 above him?
@@tusharbisht6832 Magic Nash Jokic Bron Kidd , him and cp3 are 6-7
@ I like it but I think you are overrating Kidd and Chris Paul slightly, not because I don’t think their incredible but I feel a tier below the rest, even James I’m not sure about being over bird in all honesty but I understand on ball passers get favoured in these convos and I can understand having bird below them
Good list
My Mount Rushmore is magic Nash joker bird though if that’s wasn’t obvious aha
How was dlo not on this list, he's a better passer than alot of the guys on the list?
Wemby basic passer is hilarious
People keep saying that the NBA is losing viewership or that the games are bad. But they don't talk about how weak these commentators (also on RUclips) are. After yesterday's Wemby game, they talk about it for 1 minute and then start pointless debates. This is ridiculous!
Has nothing to do with why the NBA is bad
Why do I hear your throat in the beginning Ron ?
Let me guess... it was not Joker fault and it was actually Luka's fault? I know if there was a possibilty to connect the dots who would get blamed, thankfully Luka can't be blamed for that, logically. To me Joker is absolutely in a top 10 OAT talks, but he is not on Luka's level, Luka is and will always be in GOAT talks. Different level, accept it, haters.
man im so tired of the luka disrespect luka should easily be above everyone not named jokic and should EASILY be top 6 passers ever lol. He's the best pick and roll playmaker ever IMO cuz he can pass thru the double team if they blitz can make skip passes with ease can make lob passes with ease. He's the best lob passer today(even better than trae lmfao).
gimme magic nash jokic kidd bron and bird
@ “bron” “Nash”lmfao
@@77STOMPyes bron and nash. i dont even know how nash is a question
@@77STOMP top 6 is crazy glaze and I think highly of lukas passing chops
@ fairs I just think he shouldn’t not be in those convos cuz he’s a high volume scorer lol
Kyrie as great passer messed the whole ranking up
He’s definitely not basic like how chill and jordan say though🤣.
So was this list based on passing or playmaking? I thought we all had come to the understanding by now that those aren’t the same thing. Josh Giddey is an elite-great level passer. He’s not even a good playmaker though.
Nvm guess I should have watched the rest of the video before commenting lmao. Ron was just politicking again with the title.
Idk how marz does it with Jordan. Jordan He says some of the stupidest things I’ve seen. Pen does sometimes but at least pen explains his views but my god Jordan coaches? Gah damn 😂
This comment is lowkey glazing
@ u must be a fanboy of Jordan cause I’m not glazing anyone. I’m calling his dumb takes..if that’s glazing then seek mental help bro
@@khalilcruz5816 but you wrote your comment only think about Marz. When everyone else gotta deal with Jordan's bad takes. You lowkey glazing Marz
@@farhansarkar2394highkey
@@farhansarkar2394lol
LeBron, Magic, Bird, Nash, Kidd are all Goat Tier Passers/Playmakers. Luka and Jokic will be there once they put the time in
Exactly
So instead of actual passing and playmaking ability your gonna talk about longevity 😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@DarnellJohnson504up tf are you going on about?
@@daelin9759hes saying ur waiting for longevity based on ur 'once they put the time in' statement and not just the quality of passer they are. if peak magic johnson was a rookie this season why would i have to wait 8 years to say hes a goat tier passer?
@MarzTalksSports so in other words he’s whining over trivial details. I’m basically saying that they will definitely be there once they put that time in. The reason why I’m waiting is so that I have a larger sample size for both the playoffs and regular season so I have more evidence to stand on when I’m saying they belong up there with those other names. Based on his logic, if sample size/ longevity don’t matter, I have some nasty propaganda to push about Penny Hardaway in these top PG conversations.
You do lose passing if u can’t attack the same way ex. lebron
Ox got the worst takes
KAT MVP! BIG PURR GOT NY ON FIRE
Marz is butt hurt they were talking about his bf Luka 😂😂. They were gassing that mans passing OD. That man is not a historic passer stop it.
Lukas my bf? nice
Dray is a great decision maker not passer .. def a difference
I agree.
Ingram is a better passer den Tatum bro
i dont even think its that close
Ingram and Lavine are two of the most disrespected players in the league
Yea he definitely is
@MarzTalksSports it’s not folks jus not watching unfortunately
@@Matthew-xl5bc Lavine fasho
Jordan fucking hilarious 😂😂😂😂
Joker is a better passer then Harden?🤦🏾🤣
yes
What?😂 not even close and James harden is the 3rd best shooting guard ever to me so i don’t hate him
Lmao it's his families last name 😂 🤣 😭. Well, duh!!!!
I remember Marz saying Curry is a very portable player that can fit with anybody and I disagree with that and I feel it’s 🧢. The Warriors getting blown out by the Grizzlies yesterday are signs of times to come for this team and it’s due to Curry not fitting with Dennis Schröder. Schroder is a bad fit for GS and GS should’ve never traded for him.
Curry can’t fit with ball dominant PGs and GS should’ve known this back in 2020 when the D’lo and Curry backcourt didn’t fit even before Curry broke his wrist. CP3 didn’t really fit that well either. Jordan Poole was a ball dominant PG but he came off the bench & Poole had a similar style to Curry who moves often without the ball and can create off the dribble. Curry fits with Draymond being the PG and playing 2 man game with him but other ball dominant PGs are awkward fits with Curry.
But my point is that the narrative of Curry fitting with everybody is simply not true. Only players that can fit with anybody is KD, Jokic, Kawhi and a few others but I won’t put Curry up there.
You may not need as many specific players around Curry like you do LeBron & Giannis who are slashers and need specific 3&D players around them but Curry is a unique player that needs certain players that compliment his skillset
How many games they played together again?
@@howitzdone8992 I could be wrong but I don’t see the Curry and Schroder backcourt working out. I just don’t like the notion that Curry can fit with everybody just cause of his offball movement, offball movement can be overrated.
Curry doesn’t just come off of simple curls & pindowns, there’s a certain rhythm and way Curry gets the ball from his offball movement and scores. Also, Curry isn’t like Reggie & Ray Allen(not talking bout Milwaukee Allen who was more of a slasher) who just moves without the ball without the threat of doing things with onball creation. Curry is the few players that does the offball action & onball action simultaneously where he’s constantly relocating to score after he gets the ball from offball movement.
Offball movement being the end all be all to how a player can fit well with others and be portable is BS and Marz doesn’t know what he’s talking about when he says that
That idea comes from Thinking Basketball and ppl just ran with it. Portability is such a flawed concept. Every star needs a team crafted to their strengths and weaknesses.
@@nykareem2001 I’m even skeptical if Jokic can fit with everybody like that. Jokic has a certain way to play where there’s a rhythm in which he does 2 man game with a Murray or any other PG where it’s DHOs and pick & rolls where its a cat & mouse game to constantly manipulate the D and the primary ball handler has to be on the same page as Jokic.
I feel only KD & Kawhi can fit with everybody cause their big 2 way wings that are elite shooters and are versatile. With KD & Kawhi, u can use them as bigs where they pop or roll to the rim after setting a screen or they can be traditional wings where they catch off the wing & ISO from the top of the key.
They move without the ball. They can catch the ball from the post & score, catch the ball at the nail or elbow & score, they can spot up from 3, get to the rim off the dribble and they both use the midrange. Also, they bring the ball up as the point even though that’s not their best strong suit, they have the ability to do that.
But your right, Ben Taylor fooled people into narrow way of thinking when it comes to portability but there’s more nuance to it then that
i dont think i said anybody. maybe i did tho
In far from a joker Stan but everyone is kinda right. When LeBron was in his prime. U couldn’t bring up any of his flaws or your seen as a skip bayless fan. But if u call him top 2 all time your a glazer. It goes both ways just dependent of the analysis
If we doing Greatest of all time, we need to add Nash, Magic, Kidd, Larry, Isaiah Thomas, Stockton, Bird etc. Penny, Tracy etc too.
Tracy who
@@howitzdone8992 McGrady
@@pensarebasketball LMAO
David stockton?
@MarzTalksSportsyeah idk what Stockton he talking about gotta be David cause it’s not John
Lordan cooked the list because he doesn’t know basketball and doesn’t watch jokic play the game of basketball.
Yeah last week was my first time seeing a half of Jokic
Bruh Steph curry always being protected cook him for once. This dude always misses the playoffs when he needs to step up and carry
I remember Marz saying Curry is a very portable player that can fit with anybody and I disagree with that and I feel it’s 🧢. The Warriors getting blown out by the Grizzlies yesterday are signs of times to come for this team and it’s due to Curry not fitting with Dennis Schröder. Schroder is a bad fit for GS and GS should’ve never traded for him.
Curry can’t fit with ball dominant PGs and GS should’ve known this back in 2020 when the D’lo and Curry backcourt didn’t fit even before Curry broke his wrist. CP3 didn’t really fit that well either. Jordan Poole was a ball dominant PG but he came off the bench & Poole had a similar style to Curry who moves often without the ball and can create off the dribble. Curry fits with Draymond being the PG and playing 2 man game with him but other ball dominant PGs are awkward fits with Curry.
But my point is that the narrative of Curry fitting with everybody is simply not true. Only players that can fit with anybody is KD, Jokic, Kawhi and a few others but I won’t put Curry up there.
You may not need as many specific players around Curry like you do LeBron & Giannis who are slashers and need specific 3&D players around them but Curry is a unique player that needs certain players that compliment his skillset
Always when he's missed just 2 seasons in his prime?
Part of that "Prime being 35 years old btw" while the other was when he averaged 32 a game
Always aka twice
1:56:00 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
🤢