I own a 860 GT bevel head. It has rock steady handling , a smooth 5 speed gearbox and the sound of the L twin is incomparable. Its right at the cusp of vintage and modern and I would not have it any other way. Oh, and kick start only. Its a real motorcycle.
Stop it - you’re making me want one! Mrs Wobbly is a very understanding and generous woman, but even she might moan at seeing yet another bike in the shed!
Biggest regret of my biking life was selling my 79 900SS, the full fat version, 40 mils, Contis, gold lines. Bit of a story to it, went to the Bol on it in 82, dropped it on a steep, very bendy mountain road in the massiv central on the return trip, wasn't hurt, managed to ride it back, pulled a flanker on the insurance and rebuilt it as an NCR replica, with Verlicchi rep frame, oil cooler mod, hand built 2 into 1, lots of handmade special bits including all stainless fasteners, spacers, brackets etc. It was beautiful and brutal at the same time!!! First ride out was to the IMOC concourse meeting at Olivers Mount circuit, I had no intention of entering but was persuaded to by mates, and to my great surprise it won best special Ducati, prize presented to me by no less than Steve Wynn who actually congratulated me on my execution and workmanship, I was so blown away by that!!! Still have the trophy and and prize, but sadly not the bike!! What did I do I hear you ask? I got seduced by a Honda CB1100RC and had to sell the Ducati to help fund it!! I have been trying to track that Ducati down ever since without even a sniff of where it might be, it's still on the dvla system but that's all I know. I am so pi55ed off with myself for selling it!! I do now have a 1975 750 Sport, so that's some consolation, but I'd give anything to have that NCR rep back!!! The bevel twins are super special machines, nothing like them before or since.
Fascinating story and thanks for sharing it. I can see why you’d regret selling it, I’ve done that myself. In particular, I’d very much like my Norton Commando back! A few years ago anyone could pay the DVLA a fiver and get the full details of an owner, which is what I did when I was rudely shunted off my Kawasaki by a hit-and-run driver. Nowadays, however, it looks as if you have to prove you’re a solicitor or debt collector or dealership etc. Anyway, it’s a great story, thanks again. 😊🏍️
@@3Phils Thanks, I didn't include a lot of the details, it would have made the story too long but looking back now it seems mad that I parted with that Ducati, so much blood sweat and tears went into it and I had big plans for the engine when the funds were available. Data protection act put a stop to the dvla divulging anything about drivers and owners, I've even tried asking if they would pass a letter onto the owner but they refused. I know the guy I sold it to also sold it about a year after because the new owner contacted me, as the V5 used to show previous owners details, which was also stopped. I actually still have a few original parts, which were replaced with aftermarket, going to hang on to them just for the nostalgia.
Lolly's Dad here...I bought my '79 900SS new early that year. I still own and ride it today covering well over 130,000 miles on it. It can be seen on the home page of the DOCG Website right now, she's called Old Beverly.
Amazing! Hopefully the DOCGB won’t frown on my video too much. I was at pains to point out I know very little about them but it was made with the best intentions. 😊
Back when I rode a SV650, a friend asked my help to get his 750SS going after it had sat in the garage for years. We checked it over, got it running and I took it out for a ride. Since I'd just jumped off my SV, the similarity and contrast was very clear. The engines didn't feel much different in terms of sound, vibes, character and torque. The handling of the two bikes was like chalk and cheese. The Ducati was much slower to turn and took a lot more counter-steer to get it to turn quickly. It also felt extremely stable and planted and inspired total confidence.
The 750 Super sport is my dream bike. All I need is to win the lottery. I'm so glad you mentioned the " wonderful" Italian electrics. I remember them well from my Benelli 250 2c.
Yes, well I’ve had some limited experience of them having owned two Lambretta GP200s. To be fair, Lucas was never exactly what you would call a ‘leading light’ either! 💡🔦🏍️😕
I had a brief go on a 1980s 600ss a few years ago. Beautiful styling, lovely sound, ace handling at speed and I felt like a god riding it. But heavy cluth and not particularly fast. I used to deliver bikes for a mate so had a try on some interesting stuff: Buell 900, BMW K1, Moto Morini 3.5.
900SS. Electrics needed "special care" here in the rainy Pennines. Desmo valve gear was great when properly set up, otherwise a bit of a pain. Veglia speedo was "vaguely a speedo". Overall the bike wasn't easy to live with but an absolute dream when everything was right, and that motor was like being towed by a _very_ fast steam train. 😊
I had a 1978 SD900 ("Darmah") back in the early 1980s. It was (with the possible exception of SS900s) without peer in terms of handling, speed-over-ground (ie real world speed between two places not connected by a straight-line freeway) and SOUND. IT was also comfortable over long Australian distances (600km/day for a week at a time). To this day, I regret selling it for a more 'sensible' bike.
It was quite hard. The editing, I mean. I did an extensive search for C&H but sadly they seem to have gone out of business in the past few years, a bit like my local Kwak dealer. Does everyone buy their bikes on Amazon these days? 🤣
Coburn&Hughes advert slogans:- Moto Guzzi - "Long legged and easy to live with." Ducati -" Lays it on the line." I can't remember the catch line for Harley but who in their right mind would want one anyway. And the dollybirds in their adverts were never as fit as the ladies on the Italian bikes.
Although in the same November 1978 edition of Bike there is a photograph of two young ladies doing something unspeakable on a Honda - and they don’t appear to be wearing the appropriate clobber for a ride on a motorcycle either.
Nearly bought one once as a mate bought one around the same time & had lots of grunt & handled beautifully but I went home with a Norton Commando, a decision I never regretted. While the Norton could be a pain & was more Loctite than bike by the time I sold it, the Ducati needed to be treated like a race-bike, with constant fiddling & fettling & had an almost maniacal aversion to rain. I bought a Pantah a few years later but it too almost always played up in wet weather & demanded a maintenance schedule that would have made Mike Hailwood blush. You can keep your '70s Italian bikes unless they have a Moto Guzzi badge on the tank.
I guess it was in competition with the Commando, as some folk have mentioned here. I imagine the Commando was a much better bet for home fettling. When I had mine, even I could manage a few simple tasks on it, but setting up Desmodromic valves - forget it!
Another masterpiece, 1/3 Phil! Never got to ride the vintage Ducks. But took a few spins on my buddies '94 900 SP with Staintunes. The sound is intoxicating 🙂 cheers, Neal
Thank you! Of course, having made the video, I now want the bike! I wonder how they compare to the British V-twin effort, the Hesketh? Hmm, there might be a video in that. 😉
Very enjoyable, as always. Towards the end of my motorcycling period I managed to acquire an ST2. The lower end of the Ducati range but, at least, I was able to experience the handling and the engine - albeit in its softer tuned form.
Yes, handling appears to have been the strong point for Ducati in the 70s (up against the Japanese, I mean). As I said at the start of the video, I’ve never had the pleasure. But there’s still time! Glad you enjoyed the video. 😊🏍️
Once they got rid of the bevel drive, I think the magic largely died. Dav Minton did a comprehensive review - I think it was in Motorcycle Illustrated. I was lucky enough to see one which had just been bought 50 miles away and driven to near where I lived, It was as beautiful as they say. It was a very long bike, as the short owner found out to his cost, nearly dropping it after kicking it off, then walking round the front, blipping the throttle as he went!
Apparently the accountants concluded the bevel drive meant it was costing more to make them than they were selling for. A lot of hands-on work went into manufacturing them. Pesky accountants!
Ducatis were quite common in England during the 1970s. I had a Darma 900. It was a bit quicker Than a Commando and had a nice 5 speed box. Better handling than a Laverda Jota as it was lower and lighter. Not as good handling as a Norton 650SS as it was a bit too long. Electrical switchgear OK for the period but there was a large switchblock above the front cylinder which collected water when it rained so you had to be ready to spray that dry with WD40. I did all my own maintenance. Access to the engine was OK as I only had a half fairing. However once you get in the Engine everything is shimmed, it is hand built. You have to shim the Desmo valves to zero every 5000 miles, that's hard work.
Sadly I don’t recall seeing many, or any, where I lived in the 1970s, in an increasingly impoverished seaside resort in the south east. There were plenty of Japanese bikes, British bikes, occasional BMWs and even a Jota every now and then, but Ducatis would have been considered a rare sighting. Perhaps it was something to do with the geography of the dealer network? Many thanks for the insights of ownership there. 🏍️😊
Quite a good video, except your comments about Guigario designing the bikes. He merely styled the 860GT which was not very pretty. Forget about the DeLorean, he was having a bad day. He did style the iconic VW Golf and Polo, various cars for Fiat, Lancia , Lotus and others and was generally highly regarded. The real driving force behind Ducati's success to this day was the engineer Taglioni. Steering the company but never in charge, he developed the OHV singles, modified them to use the desmodromic camshaft , and his masterpiece was the V twin. I have the good fortune to have one. A great experience to ride but rather complicated to maintain if you are used to a British or Japanese bike.
Thanks for the clarification. I did rather wonder what the distinction between Giugiaro and Taglioni was, and that spells it out. You’re very lucky to own one!
Gee, I'm glad you said you knew very little about Ducati in the intro to your presentation, because it does show. Oh dear!! Where to start?? OK, let's start with the original V twins which you just skip over like they never existed. First there were the "Round Case" models, starting with the GT and then the Sport, which were both non desmo (coil spring valves) but you do show later a 750 GT stating it is an SS (oh dear). Then you show the first Desmo L twin stating it is an SS, and whilst it is generally referred to as such it is actually the Imola Replica, an homologation bike for the 1972 Imola 200, it is very rare and hence the high prices being asked. Being a Brit I would have thought you would have got that seeing as the race was won by Paul Smart on a Ducati with Bruno Spaggiari coming second, also on a Ducati, (dear oh dear). So we get to the later "square case" engines, whilst it is true that the designer you nominate DID indeed design the the 860 and the square case engine which was used by all models including the 750 (no longer round case) and 900SS he did not design the SS as such, however he did design the VW Golf (dear oh dear oh dear). The 860 was not desmo, having the same coil spring arrangement as the earlier round case 750s except for the very last, 900 GTS, which was simply an 860 with desmo valve gear. There were many owners of Ducati between the Italian govt and VW/Audi, and no "bevel drive" L twin was ever built during the period (ongoing) of Audi ownership. The electrics were sh*t, the instruments (esp the speedo) wildly optimistic and the 860 engine (used in the 900SS as well, but with desmo valve gear) was a tad fragile. How do I know all this? My first bike was a rather mistreated 1968 250 MkIII back in 1975, I have always had at least one Ducati in the garage and my current Ducati are 1974 750 Sport, 1974 450 Desmo, 1989 400SS Junior, 2003 1000DS Multistrada, 2012 848 Evo and 2015 803 Scrambler, plus one of the Spanish copies (1977 350 Vento) and 3 Ducati engined BIMOTA (1986 DB1, 1995 DB2SR and 2013 Tesi 3D Evo). Generally speaking I like your videos, but this one? Not so much
As I said right at the start of the video, I began with zero knowledge of Ducatis, so I’m pleased to hear from an expert who can spot the nuances. 😊 I think the 1978 Bike magazine review I based the script on was pretty authentic, but of course it was more concerned with the ride than the details. Plus finding precise pictures that can be included in a video under ‘fair use’ without attracting a copyright strike takes lot of time and effort. Hopefully you haven’t been too put off!
Thankyou professor Phil for another amusing motorcycle history presentation. Always wanted a Ducati but was scared off by the $ervice co$ts of the de$modronic valve$. The purchase price of a Ducati is just the down payment for ownership here in the colonies.
Never owned a Ducati, maybe that's because as a teen on my Fizzy with mates on AP50's & other Fizzy's, one lad had a very fast Malaguti Monte. Out at night he screamed past us, missed a gear, the engine overrevved & instantly blew both front & rear lights. Off home he went, tail between his legs! Had an Italian girlfriend though, but that's a whole other story...
Ha! There was a kid at our school who had a Malaguti, which we instantly re-christened the ‘Maladjusti’, of course. He was a bit of a character, never did his school tie up properly, and worked summers on the Waltzer at the local amusement park, spinning the girls round until they screamed. All of which was rather formative when it came to my overall impression of Italian two-wheelers!
I own five 1972 750 GT Ducatis currently getting my dream engine built with 900 Darmer heads and barrels plain main bearings and uprated oiling system. You seem very dismissive of an unobtainable marque but it wasn’t long ago they were neglected and affordable. This engine is complex and beautiful and it is reputed the factory was making a loss on most of the round case production run. Slow steering but very sure footed with an engine that provides good midrange power very low vibration and glorious noise. When I get too old to kickstart my bike I can just sit and look at it. Wobbels the mad Aussie.
Wow! Five?! Good on yer! Not sure I was dismissive, though. I think I described the SS’s as ‘gorgeous’! In fact while I was researching the video I found myself wanting to go out and get one, if I my lotto ticket comes up! If you’re referring to ‘hype’ in the title, it’s more aimed at some of the inflated prices I’ve seen. I always have a bad reaction to people who email me urging me to buy motorcycles as ‘investments’. Motorcycles are for riding, and staring at in your shed admiringly, not storing away in a vault! All the best, Wobbly the mad Pom. 🏍️🏍️😊
I had a 450 single back in the late seventies it was an absolute nightmare, i always got the impression it was so the Italian's could get us back for winning the war, that was if i could kick it into life which wasn't very often.
I remember back in the early 1980,s getting pulled over whilst riding a 900 ss. The policeman pointed to the exhaust claiming they were too loud and illegal. I duly pointed to the exhaust showing him the manufacturer stamp and that they were legal and I did not care if he did not appreciate the sound!
Hi, I could never see the attraction on the early Ducati twins. With the Italian electrics and chrome that peeled off. Saying that I have never ridden one and always suspected they would handle well. The only Italian bike that I owned was an MV 750 S America that I won in MCN, dreadfull handling even in a straight line but a beautiful engine. I own classic Japanese stuff now.
Good grief, you’ve just reminded me of chrome peeling off. 😱 Didn’t that happen to all bikes in the 1970s though? It certainly happened to my Honda CB550K within about three or four years of manufacture. All four silencers turned into peeling, rusty, Swiss cheese!
I'd always lusted after a 900SS, until a friend did me a favor and let me ride his..... By far the most uncomfortable bike I've ever ridden. Great motor, stellar looks and painful riding position.
Good idea to try before you buy! I’m not sure 70s Italian bikes were built with comfort in mind, whereas I’ve never had any aches and pains from riding British or Japanese bikes of the era.
Less is more in design. These 70s Ducatis looks fast even standing still. The Honda 750 four was a much better everyday bike and tourer. Loved the black Honda 750 I bought new in 1974.
I rode a Mike Hailwood Replica 900SS in the mid 1980's. It had the better Denso instruments but I do prefer the standard 900SS, both for its appearance and lighter weight. An ex police motorcyclist I know has a silver and blue one. They feel very long legged to ride, a bit slow to steer but very stable. Have you seen that Australian bloke who produces modernised versions of the 900SS ? I think they make about 120 crank BHP but keep the originals' looks.
Good to hear from an owner and it’s interesting what you say about the handling there. The Bike article said similar, and especially lauded the Ducati’s solid and planted handling in the wet. For a 70s machine that’s high praise indeed! I’ll check out that Australian guy, thanks for the tip. 😊
@@3Phils I wasn't actually an owner but testing one at the then Three Cross Motorcycles in Dorset for a pal who was getting back into bikes after a long layoff. He tried a Laverda triple but didn't like its top heavy feeling. He eventually settled on a Yamahe FJ1100, which I ran in the engine of for him. Sadly, he has Alzheimer's Disease now and can't ride or drive anymore.
Sorry, meant to say rider but my fingers slipped. Sorry to hear about your friend. I have an acquaintance who’s going through the same thing and has had to give up his Laverdas. It our age, I suppose. 😕
@@3Phils Yes, I have cervical myelopathy myself but can still enjoy riding a bike that doesn't have a hunched over riding position. I do have a flyscreen on my SV1000, good for easing wind pressure on the old bones. A fully faired job would likely lead to a speeding ban in any case, the relative, albeit short term comfort can be detrimental to ones licence.
“A lot of misty-eyed nostalgia”. Indeed. And a lot of homicidal owners who couldn’t wait to get rid of unreliable early Ducatis and get a powerful Japanese bike instead. Voltage regulator failures one after the other…. Laverda got it right and used NipponDenso electrics.
Nice try Phil the 900ss and 750ss were boy racers dream bikes i am surprised that you did not mention the 900 Mike Hailwood Replica which is a 900ss in a sharp suit though. I only being interested in roadsters fancied the 900SD Darmarh a 900ss in civies. i once came acoss a biker broke down by the side of the road in the 80's the bike Ducati 900 MHR the problem electrical, this being in the days before breakdown recover, i of course was on my trusty Triumph Bonneville t120.
@@3Phils Entertaining non the less, the MHR came about because Mike Hailwood came out of retirement raced a 900SS prepared by Sports motorcycles of i think Oxford won the TT race and a legend was born hence MHR replica. I'm not a race fan myself but couldn't help but notice this. I only know of the 900SD Darmarh as when i was starting out my biking adventure an acquaintance rode one Red with White pinstriping impossible exotica even then.
I found a fascinating and fulsome recollection online from a few years ago by the guy who was the Sales Manager, I think, at Coburn and Hughes, while I was researching this video. He goes into great detail about the meetings he had with Ducati in Italy, and the full story of how Mike Hailwood got involved when he was looking to get back into motorcycle racing. If I can find it again I’ll link it here.
@@gordonyoung3668 Sports Motorcycles of `Manchester` actually. I had them breathe on my MHR heads and they didn`t do a great job, but then my surname`s not Hailwood. As Michaelarchangel1163 confirms together with "Bike", the steering is a bit slow. I wrote to Spondon about a short wheelbase frame kit that they produced for the bevel twins but alas did not proceed, at the time.- It could have been interesting solution to this slight shortcoming
@@gordonyoung3668 Sports Motorcycles was in Manchester. Two great engineers got that bike into winning condition, Steve Wynn and Pat Slin with a little help from some friends in Italy.
Difficult to beat an Italian chick pulling machine 😂 Saying that I tried a Multistrada back in 2013. Beautiful, fast and red. Unfortunately the most unreliable thing ever to grace my garage. The current Mrs B wasn't impressed at the money flushed when I sold it in a fit of rage after it's last incident
While we're talking DUCATI..as a 75 year old,coffin dodger,..who still rides..can I ask,does anyone remember,the 204 cc Ducati Elite,Sooo,pretty,jelly mould tank,stunning looking engine,clip ons,fantastic machine,..design perfection.But..electrics were shit,and it rusted like a mk.1ford.escort...If only Honda had bought the patent,.copied it,100%...I would have bought two..It was the prettiest little motorcycle ever,.some of the 250 cc.would clear the ton,..If only one of these Retro companies would have a shot at building one,..small nimble,quick,beautiful,.BUT,ITALIAN..HIGHLY STRUNG..didn't like the cold and damp...the original was so sweet,you would want to hang it on your bedroom wall,..(try that with a Harley) ...If you've never seen one,look it up,.IF You've never ridden one..Unfortunately you'll never get the opportunity.
You didn't answer the question of what's behind the hype? Here are some considerations from my perspective. Are the Bevels like Commandoes or Bonnevilles? Is it nostalgia for days gone by, when you needed to be a mechanic to actually own a bike? Or is the provenance a leftover of the elitist magazine reviews back in the day? Could it be the Racing success of Smart or Hailwood? Surely Fogarty and Stoner achieved more for the brand in competition. Maybe it's those bloody Boomers all cashed up and spending the kid's inheritance on something they lusted after back in the day? Don't get me wrong, I've owned several Monsters from 620 to 999 and I appreciate the solid feel they have compared to the Japanese machines I have experienced. I have an associate who owns a couple of Bevels, but I haven't ever ridden one. I can't imagine they're better to ride than a carb'd M900. The 900 Monster I owned was heavy and sort of gutless. The M620 I took on to flip during covid was a far more satisfying ride. As far as specs go, the bikes don't really add up. Now let us consider the Sport Classics. Ducati couldn't sell them when they were new and had a short model run. Now they're sought after because they're the next best thing to a Bevel. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a hater I remember seeing THREE Silver 900 SS side by side at a beachside show back in the 2000's and being impressed. They are a good looking bike. I even named a dog "Desmo" back in the 80's.
All very interesting and salient points. You’ve done a much better job of answering the question than I have! As in most things in life, the answer’s never simple and is often a combination of factors that can’t really be summed up in an eight minute video. Speaking as a ‘bloody Boomer’ myself, if I had any inheritance left to spend I’d be tempted to spend it on an SS because to my misty, nostalgic eyes they’re a gorgeous bike! I’d be happy to just sit in my shed and look at it. Which is probably all I’d get to do because, mechanically, I’m about as much use as a chocolate teapot. By the way, Desmo is a great name for a dog! 😊🐕
Like the Italian woman - beautiful, high maintenance, hard to live with and occasionally just all out insane, I avoid them as best I can. Ima so sarry for the -isms & alla that, Bambino....
Ha! You should watch Derek Fowlds talking about working with Gina Lollobrigida if you want more of that! He’s scathing. The interview’s on RUclips somewhere. Luckily, I have no Italian viewers! Well, no viewers in Italy, that is.
In about 1979 Superbike magazine wrote something about the MV Agusta, "Like a Neapolitan whore, she looks beautiful, gets your rocks off like nothing else and then turns around and spits in your face and kicks you in the balls simultaneously." My BSA can do that too, a Brummie slag not as pretty but much much cheaper.
Eh? Please explain! If your cryptic comment relates to the video being crafted from other sources and based on a contemporary review of the 900SS in Bike Magazine in November 1978, rather than me going out, finding a 900SS, saving up the money to buy it, riding it for several weeks, and then writing, filming and editing a review of my experience, I can understand your disappointment. But you can always click on the links in the video description should you want more.
I own a 860 GT bevel head. It has rock steady handling , a smooth 5 speed gearbox and the sound of the L twin is incomparable. Its right at the cusp of vintage and modern and I would not have it any other way. Oh, and kick start only. Its a real motorcycle.
Stop it - you’re making me want one! Mrs Wobbly is a very understanding and generous woman, but even she might moan at seeing yet another bike in the shed!
Biggest regret of my biking life was selling my 79 900SS, the full fat version, 40 mils, Contis, gold lines. Bit of a story to it, went to the Bol on it in 82, dropped it on a steep, very bendy mountain road in the massiv central on the return trip, wasn't hurt, managed to ride it back, pulled a flanker on the insurance and rebuilt it as an NCR replica, with Verlicchi rep frame, oil cooler mod, hand built 2 into 1, lots of handmade special bits including all stainless fasteners, spacers, brackets etc. It was beautiful and brutal at the same time!!! First ride out was to the IMOC concourse meeting at Olivers Mount circuit, I had no intention of entering but was persuaded to by mates, and to my great surprise it won best special Ducati, prize presented to me by no less than Steve Wynn who actually congratulated me on my execution and workmanship, I was so blown away by that!!! Still have the trophy and and prize, but sadly not the bike!! What did I do I hear you ask? I got seduced by a Honda CB1100RC and had to sell the Ducati to help fund it!! I have been trying to track that Ducati down ever since without even a sniff of where it might be, it's still on the dvla system but that's all I know. I am so pi55ed off with myself for selling it!! I do now have a 1975 750 Sport, so that's some consolation, but I'd give anything to have that NCR rep back!!! The bevel twins are super special machines, nothing like them before or since.
Fascinating story and thanks for sharing it. I can see why you’d regret selling it, I’ve done that myself. In particular, I’d very much like my Norton Commando back! A few years ago anyone could pay the DVLA a fiver and get the full details of an owner, which is what I did when I was rudely shunted off my Kawasaki by a hit-and-run driver. Nowadays, however, it looks as if you have to prove you’re a solicitor or debt collector or dealership etc. Anyway, it’s a great story, thanks again. 😊🏍️
@@3Phils
Thanks, I didn't include a lot of the details, it would have made the story too long but looking back now it seems mad that I parted with that Ducati, so much blood sweat and tears went into it and I had big plans for the engine when the funds were available. Data protection act put a stop to the dvla divulging anything about drivers and owners, I've even tried asking if they would pass a letter onto the owner but they refused. I know the guy I sold it to also sold it about a year after because the new owner contacted me, as the V5 used to show previous owners details, which was also stopped. I actually still have a few original parts, which were replaced with aftermarket, going to hang on to them just for the nostalgia.
Lolly's Dad here...I bought my '79 900SS new early that year. I still own and ride it today covering well over 130,000 miles on it. It can be seen on the home page of the DOCG Website right now, she's called Old Beverly.
Amazing! Hopefully the DOCGB won’t frown on my video too much. I was at pains to point out I know very little about them but it was made with the best intentions. 😊
Only drove a 350cc Ducati in the seventies, electrics were crap but the handling was beautiful. This was before the Pantah days.
Back when I rode a SV650, a friend asked my help to get his 750SS going after it had sat in the garage for years. We checked it over, got it running and I took it out for a ride. Since I'd just jumped off my SV, the similarity and contrast was very clear. The engines didn't feel much different in terms of sound, vibes, character and torque. The handling of the two bikes was like chalk and cheese. The Ducati was much slower to turn and took a lot more counter-steer to get it to turn quickly. It also felt extremely stable and planted and inspired total confidence.
The 750 Super sport is my dream bike. All I need is to win the lottery. I'm so glad you mentioned the " wonderful" Italian electrics. I remember them well from my Benelli 250 2c.
Yes, well I’ve had some limited experience of them having owned two Lambretta GP200s. To be fair, Lucas was never exactly what you would call a ‘leading light’ either! 💡🔦🏍️😕
Everything I know about bike electrics was learned, the hard way, from my Mk1 Le-Mans.
I had a brief go on a 1980s 600ss a few years ago. Beautiful styling, lovely sound, ace handling at speed and I felt like a god riding it. But heavy cluth and not particularly fast. I used to deliver bikes for a mate so had a try on some interesting stuff: Buell 900, BMW K1, Moto Morini 3.5.
900SS. Electrics needed "special care" here in the rainy Pennines. Desmo valve gear was great when properly set up, otherwise a bit of a pain. Veglia speedo was "vaguely a speedo". Overall the bike wasn't easy to live with but an absolute dream when everything was right, and that motor was like being towed by a _very_ fast steam train. 😊
I had a Veglia speedo on my Lambretta. My top speed was regularly over 90mph. 🤣
I had a 1978 SD900 ("Darmah") back in the early 1980s. It was (with the possible exception of SS900s) without peer in terms of handling, speed-over-ground (ie real world speed between two places not connected by a straight-line freeway) and SOUND. IT was also comfortable over long Australian distances (600km/day for a week at a time). To this day, I regret selling it for a more 'sensible' bike.
Ah a young teen at the time i fondly remember those Courbon and Hughes ads. Lovely bikes😂
Sadly I was unable to show the full ad due to RUclips’s prudish rules! 🤣
@@3Phils you did a good job with the editing! CH had all the love Italian bikes, plus the hogs lol
It was quite hard. The editing, I mean. I did an extensive search for C&H but sadly they seem to have gone out of business in the past few years, a bit like my local Kwak dealer. Does everyone buy their bikes on Amazon these days? 🤣
Coburn&Hughes advert slogans:-
Moto Guzzi - "Long legged and easy to live with."
Ducati -" Lays it on the line."
I can't remember the catch line for Harley but who in their right mind would want one anyway. And the dollybirds in their adverts were never as fit as the ladies on the Italian bikes.
Although in the same November 1978 edition of Bike there is a photograph of two young ladies doing something unspeakable on a Honda - and they don’t appear to be wearing the appropriate clobber for a ride on a motorcycle either.
Great video
Thank you!
Nearly bought one once as a mate bought one around the same time & had lots of grunt & handled beautifully but I went home with a Norton Commando, a decision I never regretted.
While the Norton could be a pain & was more Loctite than bike by the time I sold it, the Ducati needed to be treated like a race-bike, with constant fiddling & fettling & had an almost maniacal aversion to rain.
I bought a Pantah a few years later but it too almost always played up in wet weather & demanded a maintenance schedule that would have made Mike Hailwood blush.
You can keep your '70s Italian bikes unless they have a Moto Guzzi badge on the tank.
I guess it was in competition with the Commando, as some folk have mentioned here. I imagine the Commando was a much better bet for home fettling. When I had mine, even I could manage a few simple tasks on it, but setting up Desmodromic valves - forget it!
Another masterpiece, 1/3 Phil!
Never got to ride the vintage Ducks. But took a few spins on my buddies '94 900 SP with Staintunes.
The sound is intoxicating 🙂
cheers, Neal
Thank you! Of course, having made the video, I now want the bike! I wonder how they compare to the British V-twin effort, the Hesketh? Hmm, there might be a video in that. 😉
Very enjoyable, as always. Towards the end of my motorcycling period I managed to acquire an ST2. The lower end of the Ducati range but, at least, I was able to experience the handling and the engine - albeit in its softer tuned form.
Yes, handling appears to have been the strong point for Ducati in the 70s (up against the Japanese, I mean). As I said at the start of the video, I’ve never had the pleasure. But there’s still time! Glad you enjoyed the video. 😊🏍️
What a cracking machine !
Yes, like all the bikes I make a video about, I now want one! 🏍️🏍️🏍️
Once they got rid of the bevel drive, I think the magic largely died. Dav Minton did a comprehensive review - I think it was in Motorcycle Illustrated. I was lucky enough to see one which had just been bought 50 miles away and driven to near where I lived, It was as beautiful as they say. It was a very long bike, as the short owner found out to his cost, nearly dropping it after kicking it off, then walking round the front, blipping the throttle as he went!
Apparently the accountants concluded the bevel drive meant it was costing more to make them than they were selling for. A lot of hands-on work went into manufacturing them. Pesky accountants!
Ducatis were quite common in England during the 1970s. I had a Darma 900. It was a bit quicker Than a Commando and had a nice 5 speed box. Better handling than a Laverda Jota as it was lower and lighter. Not as good handling as a Norton 650SS as it was a bit too long. Electrical switchgear OK for the period but there was a large switchblock above the front cylinder which collected water when it rained so you had to be ready to spray that dry with WD40. I did all my own maintenance. Access to the engine was OK as I only had a half fairing. However once you get in the Engine everything is shimmed, it is hand built. You have to shim the Desmo valves to zero every 5000 miles, that's hard work.
Sadly I don’t recall seeing many, or any, where I lived in the 1970s, in an increasingly impoverished seaside resort in the south east. There were plenty of Japanese bikes, British bikes, occasional BMWs and even a Jota every now and then, but Ducatis would have been considered a rare sighting. Perhaps it was something to do with the geography of the dealer network? Many thanks for the insights of ownership there. 🏍️😊
Cheers, just found you, the vid was educational and delivered well. Subscribed, from Aberdeen. 🙂
Thank you! 😊🏍️
Quite a good video, except your comments about Guigario designing the bikes. He merely styled the 860GT which was not very pretty. Forget about the DeLorean, he was having a bad day. He did style the iconic VW Golf and Polo, various cars for Fiat, Lancia , Lotus and others and was generally highly regarded.
The real driving force behind Ducati's success to this day was the engineer Taglioni. Steering the company but never in charge, he developed the OHV singles, modified them to use the desmodromic camshaft , and his masterpiece was the V twin.
I have the good fortune to have one. A great experience to ride but rather complicated to maintain if you are used to a British or Japanese bike.
Thanks for the clarification. I did rather wonder what the distinction between Giugiaro and Taglioni was, and that spells it out. You’re very lucky to own one!
Loved my much modified bevel twin, went to a good owner👍
Gee, I'm glad you said you knew very little about Ducati in the intro to your presentation, because it does show. Oh dear!! Where to start?? OK, let's start with the original V twins which you just skip over like they never existed. First there were the "Round Case" models, starting with the GT and then the Sport, which were both non desmo (coil spring valves) but you do show later a 750 GT stating it is an SS (oh dear). Then you show the first Desmo L twin stating it is an SS, and whilst it is generally referred to as such it is actually the Imola Replica, an homologation bike for the 1972 Imola 200, it is very rare and hence the high prices being asked. Being a Brit I would have thought you would have got that seeing as the race was won by Paul Smart on a Ducati with Bruno Spaggiari coming second, also on a Ducati, (dear oh dear). So we get to the later "square case" engines, whilst it is true that the designer you nominate DID indeed design the the 860 and the square case engine which was used by all models including the 750 (no longer round case) and 900SS he did not design the SS as such, however he did design the VW Golf (dear oh dear oh dear). The 860 was not desmo, having the same coil spring arrangement as the earlier round case 750s except for the very last, 900 GTS, which was simply an 860 with desmo valve gear. There were many owners of Ducati between the Italian govt and VW/Audi, and no "bevel drive" L twin was ever built during the period (ongoing) of Audi ownership. The electrics were sh*t, the instruments (esp the speedo) wildly optimistic and the 860 engine (used in the 900SS as well, but with desmo valve gear) was a tad fragile. How do I know all this? My first bike was a rather mistreated 1968 250 MkIII back in 1975, I have always had at least one Ducati in the garage and my current Ducati are 1974 750 Sport, 1974 450 Desmo, 1989 400SS Junior, 2003 1000DS Multistrada, 2012 848 Evo and 2015 803 Scrambler, plus one of the Spanish copies (1977 350 Vento) and 3 Ducati engined BIMOTA (1986 DB1, 1995 DB2SR and 2013 Tesi 3D Evo).
Generally speaking I like your videos, but this one? Not so much
As I said right at the start of the video, I began with zero knowledge of Ducatis, so I’m pleased to hear from an expert who can spot the nuances. 😊 I think the 1978 Bike magazine review I based the script on was pretty authentic, but of course it was more concerned with the ride than the details. Plus finding precise pictures that can be included in a video under ‘fair use’ without attracting a copyright strike takes lot of time and effort. Hopefully you haven’t been too put off!
I lusted after one of these in my yoof, and still do I’m 73.
@@keithnorman3519 I still want a Mike Hailwood replica 💕
@tonyb9735 ❤️
Thankyou professor Phil for another amusing motorcycle history presentation. Always wanted a Ducati but was scared off by the $ervice co$ts of the de$modronic valve$. The purchase price of a Ducati is just the down payment for ownership here in the colonies.
Thank you for your thank you! Yes, the Desmodronics are apparently a bit of a costly fiddle.
Never owned a Ducati, maybe that's because as a teen on my Fizzy with mates on AP50's & other Fizzy's, one lad had a very fast Malaguti Monte. Out at night he screamed past us, missed a gear, the engine overrevved & instantly blew both front & rear lights. Off home he went, tail between his legs! Had an Italian girlfriend though, but that's a whole other story...
Ha! There was a kid at our school who had a Malaguti, which we instantly re-christened the ‘Maladjusti’, of course. He was a bit of a character, never did his school tie up properly, and worked summers on the Waltzer at the local amusement park, spinning the girls round until they screamed. All of which was rather formative when it came to my overall impression of Italian two-wheelers!
I had a Benelli 250 2c and remember having to carry around a box of tail and head light globes for when it happened.
@@davidrochow9382 I guess Joe Lucas 'the prince of darkness' had an Italian cousin 🙂
🤣
Beautiful bikes..
I own five 1972 750 GT Ducatis currently getting my dream engine built with 900 Darmer heads and barrels plain main bearings and uprated oiling system. You seem very dismissive of an unobtainable marque but it wasn’t long ago they were neglected and affordable. This engine is complex and beautiful and it is reputed the factory was making a loss on most of the round case production run. Slow steering but very sure footed with an engine that provides good midrange power very low vibration and glorious noise. When I get too old to kickstart my bike I can just sit and look at it. Wobbels the mad Aussie.
Wow! Five?! Good on yer! Not sure I was dismissive, though. I think I described the SS’s as ‘gorgeous’! In fact while I was researching the video I found myself wanting to go out and get one, if I my lotto ticket comes up! If you’re referring to ‘hype’ in the title, it’s more aimed at some of the inflated prices I’ve seen. I always have a bad reaction to people who email me urging me to buy motorcycles as ‘investments’. Motorcycles are for riding, and staring at in your shed admiringly, not storing away in a vault! All the best, Wobbly the mad Pom. 🏍️🏍️😊
You certainly are doing it right, liked and subscribed.👍
That’s very kind. Thank you! 😊
OMG, I was born in the UK but have lived in Italy for 50 years and am amused as heck by your pronunciation of Italian .😂
Ha! Molto bene, dad! 🤣
@@3Phils Più vicino a nonno, immagino
I had a 450 single back in the late seventies it was an absolute nightmare, i always got the impression it was so the Italian's could get us back for winning the war, that was if i could kick it into life which wasn't very often.
I remember back in the early 1980,s getting pulled over whilst riding a 900 ss.
The policeman pointed to the exhaust claiming they were too loud and illegal.
I duly pointed to the exhaust showing him the manufacturer stamp and that they were legal and I did not care if he did not appreciate the sound!
Excellent! He no doubt looked a bit crestfallen. 🤣
The Duke was every schoolboy's dream. Well, that and being stuck on a desert island with Jenny Aguter. I had posters of both on my bedroom wall.
Ah, the hours spent scouring the Radio Times to see if there was a late night viewing of Walkabout scheduled!
The Silver 900ss was £2499 in 79. Nearly got one, ended up with a Jota instead.
You didn’t do so badly then! 😊🏍️
Never rode a Duke that I liked !!
Hi, I could never see the attraction on the early Ducati twins.
With the Italian electrics and chrome that peeled off.
Saying that I have never ridden one and always suspected they would handle well.
The only Italian bike that I owned was an MV 750 S America that I won in MCN, dreadfull handling even in a straight line but a beautiful engine.
I own classic Japanese stuff now.
Good grief, you’ve just reminded me of chrome peeling off. 😱 Didn’t that happen to all bikes in the 1970s though? It certainly happened to my Honda CB550K within about three or four years of manufacture. All four silencers turned into peeling, rusty, Swiss cheese!
I love my 937+ Monster but the Designers absolutely SHOULD have made WAY more effort to beautify the engine covers!
I have a similar feeling about my Indian FTR. Tbh, I’m an old fashioned kind of guy who likes to see an engine in there somewhere!
I'd always lusted after a 900SS, until a friend did me a favor and let me ride his..... By far the most uncomfortable bike I've ever ridden. Great motor, stellar looks and painful riding position.
Good idea to try before you buy! I’m not sure 70s Italian bikes were built with comfort in mind, whereas I’ve never had any aches and pains from riding British or Japanese bikes of the era.
Less is more in design. These 70s Ducatis looks fast even standing still. The Honda 750 four was a much better everyday bike and tourer. Loved the black Honda 750 I bought new in 1974.
I rode a Mike Hailwood Replica 900SS in the mid 1980's. It had the better Denso instruments but I do prefer the standard 900SS, both for its appearance and lighter weight. An ex police motorcyclist I know has a silver and blue one. They feel very long legged to ride, a bit slow to steer but very stable. Have you seen that Australian bloke who produces modernised versions of the 900SS ? I think they make about 120 crank BHP but keep the originals' looks.
Good to hear from an owner and it’s interesting what you say about the handling there. The Bike article said similar, and especially lauded the Ducati’s solid and planted handling in the wet. For a 70s machine that’s high praise indeed! I’ll check out that Australian guy, thanks for the tip. 😊
@@3Phils I wasn't actually an owner but testing one at the then Three Cross Motorcycles in Dorset for a pal who was getting back into bikes after a long layoff. He tried a Laverda triple but didn't like its top heavy feeling. He eventually settled on a Yamahe FJ1100, which I ran in the engine of for him. Sadly, he has Alzheimer's Disease now and can't ride or drive anymore.
Sorry, meant to say rider but my fingers slipped. Sorry to hear about your friend. I have an acquaintance who’s going through the same thing and has had to give up his Laverdas. It our age, I suppose. 😕
@@3Phils Yes, I have cervical myelopathy myself but can still enjoy riding a bike that doesn't have a hunched over riding position. I do have a flyscreen on my SV1000, good for easing wind pressure on the old bones. A fully faired job would likely lead to a speeding ban in any case, the relative, albeit short term comfort can be detrimental to ones licence.
I’m much more concentrated on my speedo myself these days. After all, a ban would just represent precious moments lost nowadays.
Fun fact at the same time the Italian government had them make a 125cc two stroke ,look up the ducati six day.
I’ve looked it up, and that is definitely a fun fact! Thank you!
@@3Phils n/p mate , and yes i do own one of these the black sheep of the ducati family.
Can you review the Paul Smart
It’s an amazing looking bike, for sure. If somebody out there wants to give me one, I’d be more than happy to review it!
@@3Phils I had one some years back
One of the few bikes I always miss
Stunning
Gosh, you’re lucky to have owned one and I can see why you’d miss it. What a gorgeous machine.
He does more miles on his feet than on his tyres. 6:11 He should gets stabilisers on and have done.
“A lot of misty-eyed nostalgia”. Indeed. And a lot of homicidal owners who couldn’t wait to get rid of unreliable early Ducatis and get a powerful Japanese bike instead. Voltage regulator failures one after the other…. Laverda got it right and used NipponDenso electrics.
Nice try Phil the 900ss and 750ss were boy racers dream bikes i am surprised that you did not mention the 900 Mike Hailwood Replica which is a 900ss in a sharp suit though. I only being interested in roadsters fancied the 900SD Darmarh a 900ss in civies. i once came acoss a biker broke down by the side of the road in the 80's the bike Ducati 900 MHR the problem electrical, this being in the days before breakdown recover, i of course was on my trusty Triumph Bonneville t120.
Well I had a go! I’ve got another period article about the Mike Hailwood Replica and I think it’s got the making of a whole nother video. 🏍️👍
@@3Phils Entertaining non the less, the MHR came about because Mike Hailwood came out of retirement raced a 900SS prepared by Sports motorcycles of i think Oxford won the TT race and a legend was born hence MHR replica. I'm not a race fan myself but couldn't help but notice this. I only know of the 900SD Darmarh as when i was starting out my biking adventure an acquaintance rode one Red with White pinstriping impossible exotica even then.
I found a fascinating and fulsome recollection online from a few years ago by the guy who was the Sales Manager, I think, at Coburn and Hughes, while I was researching this video. He goes into great detail about the meetings he had with Ducati in Italy, and the full story of how Mike Hailwood got involved when he was looking to get back into motorcycle racing. If I can find it again I’ll link it here.
@@gordonyoung3668 Sports Motorcycles of `Manchester` actually. I had them breathe on my MHR heads and they didn`t do a great job, but then my surname`s not Hailwood. As Michaelarchangel1163 confirms together with "Bike", the steering is a bit slow. I wrote to Spondon about a short wheelbase frame kit that they produced for the bevel twins but alas did not proceed, at the time.- It could have been interesting solution to this slight shortcoming
@@gordonyoung3668 Sports Motorcycles was in Manchester. Two great engineers got that bike into winning condition, Steve Wynn and Pat Slin with a little help from some friends in Italy.
Difficult to beat an Italian chick pulling machine 😂
Saying that I tried a Multistrada back in 2013. Beautiful, fast and red. Unfortunately the most unreliable thing ever to grace my garage. The current Mrs B wasn't impressed at the money flushed when I sold it in a fit of rage after it's last incident
My Lambretta GP200 was pretty solid! 🤣
"Poodling around looking for chicks." I miss the past.
Ah, nostalgia ain’t what it used to be. 😊
While we're talking DUCATI..as a 75 year old,coffin dodger,..who still rides..can I ask,does anyone remember,the 204 cc Ducati Elite,Sooo,pretty,jelly mould tank,stunning looking engine,clip ons,fantastic machine,..design perfection.But..electrics were shit,and it rusted like a mk.1ford.escort...If only Honda had bought the patent,.copied it,100%...I would have bought two..It was the prettiest little motorcycle ever,.some of the 250 cc.would clear the ton,..If only one of these Retro companies would have a shot at building one,..small nimble,quick,beautiful,.BUT,ITALIAN..HIGHLY STRUNG..didn't like the cold and damp...the original was so sweet,you would want to hang it on your bedroom wall,..(try that with a Harley) ...If you've never seen one,look it up,.IF You've never ridden one..Unfortunately you'll never get the opportunity.
You didn't answer the question of what's behind the hype?
Here are some considerations from my perspective.
Are the Bevels like Commandoes or Bonnevilles?
Is it nostalgia for days gone by, when you needed to be a mechanic to actually own a bike?
Or is the provenance a leftover of the elitist magazine reviews back in the day?
Could it be the Racing success of Smart or Hailwood?
Surely Fogarty and Stoner achieved more for the brand in competition.
Maybe it's those bloody Boomers all cashed up and spending the kid's inheritance on something they lusted after back in the day?
Don't get me wrong, I've owned several Monsters from 620 to 999 and I appreciate the solid feel they have compared to the Japanese machines I have experienced.
I have an associate who owns a couple of Bevels, but I haven't ever ridden one. I can't imagine they're better to ride than a carb'd M900. The 900 Monster I owned was heavy and sort of gutless. The M620 I took on to flip during covid was a far more satisfying ride.
As far as specs go, the bikes don't really add up.
Now let us consider the Sport Classics. Ducati couldn't sell them when they were new and had a short model run. Now they're sought after because they're the next best thing to a Bevel.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a hater I remember seeing THREE Silver 900 SS side by side at a beachside show back in the 2000's and being impressed. They are a good looking bike.
I even named a dog "Desmo" back in the 80's.
All very interesting and salient points. You’ve done a much better job of answering the question than I have! As in most things in life, the answer’s never simple and is often a combination of factors that can’t really be summed up in an eight minute video. Speaking as a ‘bloody Boomer’ myself, if I had any inheritance left to spend I’d be tempted to spend it on an SS because to my misty, nostalgic eyes they’re a gorgeous bike! I’d be happy to just sit in my shed and look at it. Which is probably all I’d get to do because, mechanically, I’m about as much use as a chocolate teapot. By the way, Desmo is a great name for a dog! 😊🐕
I had 2 over the years. Not a good experience. Even when
they were were going the weren’t that good. Get a guzzi , just as fast and reliable.
Like the Italian woman - beautiful, high maintenance, hard to live with and occasionally just all out insane, I avoid them as best I can. Ima so sarry for the
-isms & alla that, Bambino....
Ha! You should watch Derek Fowlds talking about working with Gina Lollobrigida if you want more of that! He’s scathing. The interview’s on RUclips somewhere. Luckily, I have no Italian viewers! Well, no viewers in Italy, that is.
In about 1979 Superbike magazine wrote something about the MV Agusta, "Like a Neapolitan whore, she looks beautiful, gets your rocks off like nothing else and then turns around and spits in your face and kicks you in the balls simultaneously." My BSA can do that too, a Brummie slag not as pretty but much much cheaper.
A very long series of montages…..
Eh? Please explain! If your cryptic comment relates to the video being crafted from other sources and based on a contemporary review of the 900SS in Bike Magazine in November 1978, rather than me going out, finding a 900SS, saving up the money to buy it, riding it for several weeks, and then writing, filming and editing a review of my experience, I can understand your disappointment. But you can always click on the links in the video description should you want more.
Wonderful!