Isn't this why some manufacturers like Toyota are moving toward electronically controlled VVT cams/phasers to avoid these sometimes finicky hydraulic variety? Thanks as always, Eric!
I live for those moments. All I need is a battery cable end? Why did the "other shop" tell me I need a starter? I tell the customer that I can't answer that, but I'm not gonna sell you what you don't need
@@OcRefrig and if the customer would had said ok, the “other shop” would have come back with oh the solenoid was bad too and the poor customer would have not known any difference when really just a $20 part.
I'm a fleet mechanic and Firesone auto center diagnosed one of my trucks with 4 bad coil packs and 4 bad sparkplugs. When I saw the work order I had the truck towed back to my shop. Turns out all the coil packs and plugs were fine. Cylinder 3 had a burnt exhaust valve and no compression.
Always irks me when shops go "ooohhh uuuhhhh yeah, must be your PCM, fella" I get it - computers suck, and they break like everything else. I love that you show us how to prove what's actually going on instead of just blaming the PCM.
From my casual observations PCM failure seems to be one of the least likely causes, but a much more common diagnosis, probably due to lack of understanding. I think I’ve only seen one video where it genuinely was PCM failure, I was shocked!
Situation is a lot more complex. Eric does something a lot of shops won’t. All those wiring diagrams and the scan tool that graphs cost serious money. Plus if you got the knowledge to use them you command a better pay than most shops are willing to pay.the guy tried , he got a volt ohm and checked power and ground to the solenoid. He had no way to tell if the cam was actually moveing. Plus I have run in to ALOT of service bulletins that say false positive, program up date needed
@@stephenbonesteel664 Sorry, but if a shop is going to tell you the vehicle needs an ECU, they'd better have made sure they have the diagnostic equipment to back up that diagnosis. If they don't/ can't, they have no right guessing and making a customer pay to indulge their guessing. Tell the customer you are too lazy and cheap to bother tooling up and learning the newer systems, don't deceive the customer. Get with the times, buy the equipment or just do servicing and brakes/ suspension. Claiming to be able to work on electronics but just guessing is at best dishonest. At worst, deliberate misrepresentation of your services.
Had a 2011 HHR in my bay last week. Same deal except it did throw both P0013 (Exhaust solenoid circuit) and P0014 (Exhaust solenoid performance). Resistance should have been 8-12 ohms and a quick resistance check on the exhaust was 32 KOhms. No matter how many times I see something, always best to take the time to test. Always grateful for the videos. Many thanks.
Laziness and fear of stepping out of their comfort zone. Refusal to change is what destroys companies. If you let change slip by for too many years, the learning curve and new equipment costs become so high, it can look like it's not financially viable to bother changing. Then of course, your business starts to slowly dry up and the shop cries "not fair, technology killed our business!", when it was actually laziness and apathy that did that for them...
I've had shops try to throw a PCM at me for no reason. It pays to start from the beginning. One time it was ultimately revealed that a mouse chewed a knock sensor wire.
A couple of weeks back I had a freind of mine who's car wouldn't start. His "mechanic" fired the parts cannon at it. Nothing worked so he quoted him on an ECM. I took a look at it. Went through the basics, spark, compression, got to fuel, the fuel pump was was sending good pressure. So I was like okay are the injectors actuating? I listen to them with the old screwdriver to the ear trick. Nothing no clicking from any injector. So I check for injector pulse, all are getting pulses, at least from the power side to the ground I hooked my test light to. So I check the ground on each connector open to ground all of them. Turns out the ground is common to all injectors. Because it was an old Saturn and my friend didn't care I wired all the grounds together to a ground wire I added. She fired right up and ran like a champ. Moral of the story don't just load the parts cannon and go, and if you aren't sure where to start, start at the basics. On the real I straight up picked up the processes straight from Eric I'm not a professional tech just a guy that likes to work on stuff.
I've had that experience since the early 90's too. My mother had a shop try to sell her a new ECM for her late 80's Nissan way back when. I refused to believe it was the ECM so bought a factory service manual. $130 later (cost of FSM and a coolant temp sensor), plus an hour diagnosing and I saved mum $450.... I will add that before this, my knowledge of electronics didn't go further than knowing how a hall effect sensor and ignition box worked on a distributor system. Never be afraid to learn.
You understand all the PCM stuff and the codes and what they really mean. Amazing. You’ll be fine after a couple of years of therapy. ;). You saved that customer money too.
Techs who can't understand how to properly troubleshoot ought to stick to what they know, selling oil changes and wiper blades. Every check engine light isn't a new PCM or O2 sensor.
Quick Google prices between the two are comparable for this vehicle if you get a used pcm. Either way it's always cheaper to fix the broken part first.
To me, the really good channels, just start, with a minimum of fanfare. SMA is the gold standard for repairs. Eric, in case you read this, make a video about brake jobs.
seriously, I think you are the only competent mechanic in upstate New York. Based on how much work you get from other shops. Really said that other shops can’t diagnose something you can do so simply.
IVE BEEN WATCHING ALL YOUR VIDEOS THAT IVE MISSED YOU HAVE THE BEST MOST HONEST SHOP IVE SEEN YOUR A GOOD GUY BUDDY LIKE THE WAY YOU RUN YOUR BUISNESS,,,KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK MR O ,,BEST WISHES FROM ONTARIO🇨🇦🇨🇦
What good "timing" on this video, I have the P0016, and P0017 (Bank1) on a 2010 Cadilac with the big 3.0 that I have to diagnose in the morning. Thanks for the great refresher course. Keep up the good work!
i have to say mate. I'm an old spanner man from last century before vehicles went to wizardry to run that i really enjoy the way you critical think the problems then confirm with the magic box. Well done and thanks for entertaining me with your efforts.
Eric, you are not only a master mechanic and technician, you are also very ethical! ! I have heard you say when making the call to replace a PCM or any other significant module that "you want to be damn sure". Well in this instance you were asked to replace the PCM by the customer, yet you did the "right" thing by confirming the other shop's call. You are a credit to your profession.
This was a great video. I soooo appreciate your method of following the evidence test don't guess. Thank you for your work and willingness to share your incredible talents.
I wish I could understand codes and electrical gremlins as much as you do. I'm learning but that's definitely my weak area right now. I think having a very nice scanner would help but I don't feel like shelling out a car note for one right now lol. Anyways great video as always Eric, keep em coming!
When Eric started to test drive the car, he said something about not wanting to crash. Since I was in the front seat watching the scan tool, I put on a seatbelt around my desk chair.
You have access to so many things, the signal to it and the actual valve timing, a smoking gun. The resistance check just seems to confirm it. Good job. I wonder if it would have been practical to reverse the two solenoids
Eric, I think a Bed and Breakfast alongside your business would be a excellent addition to your auto business, the out of towners call make an appointment for car truck repair and lodge for several days while car or truck is logged in for work, happy customers get the repairs done right and not ripped off, Mrs O gets to run a motel and breakfast dinner , lunch cooking business and does accounting work in her spare time and home school your kids at the same time ! Vanessa is going to love this suggestion.
Make sure that you CHECK THE OIL anytime something comes in with VVT codes. Even a solenoid right next to the one that works can be affected moreso by the air bubbles than the other.
Repair as they come I guess this customer get to keep there vehicle it good to see that there are people buying parts for it cool it will see you on the next one .
People have commented about a chassis dyno, a dash mount for a camera that is easy to attach/detach would also be an idea so you don't need to hold it.
It seems like there's another shop nearby that decides that any code that comes up warrants a pcm replacement. Lol. There are a bunch of different videos where that's the story. Good thing they found Mr. O!
I think I've watched every video you've made in the last 5+ years. Has it ever been the PCM? I think one time when the parts cannon approach fried the 'puter. You mailed it out to a place for repairs, if I remember correctly.
Another informative and useful video; following your diagnostics I have figured out a long standing issue. Your comment about command given and only a partial response rung a bell. That's why my wife is always mad with me. Commend given (from her) and partial response (from me). Hmmmm... what could be the fix?
I had a similar repair on our 2008 Saturn Astra. Only sold for two years, no dealers anymore, GM dealers not very helpful. I’m not half as clever as you, so I just swapped the cam phaser solenoids and the codes changed. I also bought two, because parts were getting scarce.
I just looked at my daughters Mini Cooper and the component test on the Verus showed 8-14 Ohms for a good Vanos solenoid and the exhaust solenoid was under 7 ohms.The duty cycle was in the low 40's instead of the 54% that it asked for. Seems like shops always want to change the computer. I guess the old saying holds true. "Garbage in Garbage out" That's the reason I will always compare computers to submarines. As soon as you open a window you are in trouble. 😂😂
A shop that specialises in fixing the mistakes of others (and the ECM diagnosis was a mistake) will always be busy. Never be afraid to take on the jobs everyone else has failed at.
Best auto shop on RUclips.
Not only do we get the fault diagnosis, but how we arrived at the conclusion.
You bring a tear to this old mechanics eye.
Only one eye? :-D
On the east coast
Agreed Anthony, guy knows his stuff and he’s not afraid to share the knowledge!
Indeed!
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It's cheaper to travel 2300 miles to take your vehicle to someone that knows what they are doing! Than a dealer 1/2 mile away. Great job SMA
Isn't this why some manufacturers like Toyota are moving toward electronically controlled VVT cams/phasers to avoid these sometimes finicky hydraulic variety? Thanks as always, Eric!
Exactly I'm thinking of driving a car to him and I live in Indiana!!!
@@soxplayer3907 Be sure you have an appointment & reservation @ the Avoca Hilton.
@@soxplayer3907 hey me too! road trip! but my car ain't broke..... its a Toyota
@@soxplayer3907 well worth the trip!
Would love to see the customer's face when you tell them the price difference between a solenoid vs a PCM. Follow up pleeeze. Great job Eric!
I live for those moments. All I need is a battery cable end? Why did the "other shop" tell me I need a starter? I tell the customer that I can't answer that, but I'm not gonna sell you what you don't need
i just goggled the two parts.
$24.00 for the camshaft variable timing solenoid.
$200.00 for pcm.
@@OcRefrig And no 100-150 programming charge.
@@dakotataylor7909 yea , that too. 👍
@@OcRefrig and if the customer would had said ok, the “other shop” would have come back with oh the solenoid was bad too and the poor customer would have not known any difference when really just a $20 part.
As soon as Eric said the other shop said it needed a pcm, you knew it wasn't a pcm proble
I genuinely wonder if they tried to diagnose it or just thought "it's a code we ain't seen before, computer must be duff"
I'm a fleet mechanic and Firesone auto center diagnosed one of my trucks with 4 bad coil packs and 4 bad sparkplugs. When I saw the work order I had the truck towed back to my shop. Turns out all the coil packs and plugs were fine. Cylinder 3 had a burnt exhaust valve and no compression.
Always irks me when shops go "ooohhh uuuhhhh yeah, must be your PCM, fella"
I get it - computers suck, and they break like everything else. I love that you show us how to prove what's actually going on instead of just blaming the PCM.
From my casual observations PCM failure seems to be one of the least likely causes, but a much more common diagnosis, probably due to lack of understanding. I think I’ve only seen one video where it genuinely was PCM failure, I was shocked!
@@TheCubicnz Pcm failure is relatively low. Usually a good telltale is that the pcm will have problems communicating with multiple modules
When in doubt, blame the computer.
Who’s going to argue with you?
Situation is a lot more complex. Eric does something a lot of shops won’t. All those wiring diagrams and the scan tool that graphs cost serious money. Plus if you got the knowledge to use them you command a better pay than most shops are willing to pay.the guy tried , he got a volt ohm and checked power and ground to the solenoid. He had no way to tell if the cam was actually moveing. Plus I have run in to ALOT of service bulletins that say false positive, program up date needed
@@stephenbonesteel664 Sorry, but if a shop is going to tell you the vehicle needs an ECU, they'd better have made sure they have the diagnostic equipment to back up that diagnosis.
If they don't/ can't, they have no right guessing and making a customer pay to indulge their guessing. Tell the customer you are too lazy and cheap to bother tooling up and learning the newer systems, don't deceive the customer.
Get with the times, buy the equipment or just do servicing and brakes/ suspension. Claiming to be able to work on electronics but just guessing is at best dishonest. At worst, deliberate misrepresentation of your services.
Had a 2011 HHR in my bay last week. Same deal except it did throw both P0013 (Exhaust solenoid circuit) and P0014 (Exhaust solenoid performance). Resistance should have been 8-12 ohms and a quick resistance check on the exhaust was 32 KOhms. No matter how many times I see something, always best to take the time to test. Always grateful for the videos. Many thanks.
When my '10 HHR threw those codes an oil change fixed it. Obviously multiple causes for those codes.
If Eric can do it, then the other shop can do it? Oh wait, if the other shop can't do it, but "I can do it?" Oh wait, this is getting complicated.
Laziness and fear of stepping out of their comfort zone.
Refusal to change is what destroys companies. If you let change slip by for too many years, the learning curve and new equipment costs become so high, it can look like it's not financially viable to bother changing. Then of course, your business starts to slowly dry up and the shop cries "not fair, technology killed our business!", when it was actually laziness and apathy that did that for them...
I'll say it again, You sir are simply the best at repairing autos. The "Columbo" of mechanics. Thanks. I learn things with every video you do.
I've had shops try to throw a PCM at me for no reason. It pays to start from the beginning. One time it was ultimately revealed that a mouse chewed a knock sensor wire.
A couple of weeks back I had a freind of mine who's car wouldn't start. His "mechanic" fired the parts cannon at it. Nothing worked so he quoted him on an ECM. I took a look at it. Went through the basics, spark, compression, got to fuel, the fuel pump was was sending good pressure. So I was like okay are the injectors actuating? I listen to them with the old screwdriver to the ear trick. Nothing no clicking from any injector. So I check for injector pulse, all are getting pulses, at least from the power side to the ground I hooked my test light to. So I check the ground on each connector open to ground all of them. Turns out the ground is common to all injectors. Because it was an old Saturn and my friend didn't care I wired all the grounds together to a ground wire I added. She fired right up and ran like a champ. Moral of the story don't just load the parts cannon and go, and if you aren't sure where to start, start at the basics. On the real I straight up picked up the processes straight from Eric I'm not a professional tech just a guy that likes to work on stuff.
I've had that experience since the early 90's too. My mother had a shop try to sell her a new ECM for her late 80's Nissan way back when. I refused to believe it was the ECM so bought a factory service manual. $130 later (cost of FSM and a coolant temp sensor), plus an hour diagnosing and I saved mum $450....
I will add that before this, my knowledge of electronics didn't go further than knowing how a hall effect sensor and ignition box worked on a distributor system.
Never be afraid to learn.
Great walkthrough Eric....
Admire your approach of (never assume- follow facts)
Two thumbs up !
In the timeless words of Ed Bassmaster - “Sometimes ya just gotta look at it”.
“Just look at that thing would ya!?!”
That made me laugh on the inside. Thanks.
You understand all the PCM stuff and the codes and what they really mean. Amazing. You’ll be fine after a couple of years of therapy. ;). You saved that customer money too.
Your methodical / logical skills are second to none🙂
There are mechanics and than there are TECHNICIANS. You sir are an absolute master of your trade 😎👍👍
Techs who can't understand how to properly troubleshoot ought to stick to what they know, selling oil changes and wiper blades. Every check engine light isn't a new PCM or O2 sensor.
You are one of the best mechanics out there Eric thanks for educating all of us never replace parts unless you have done your homework.
This is why we come to SMA, every day is a learning day. Also a toot around town and some witty commentary helps...
I'm guessing you have a very happy customer. That would have been an expensive fix that wouldn't have worked.
Probably same $$$ least eric does inspection for free in hopes of gaining the job. Well think he gives them atleast 1hr of his time to diagnose
@@SmudgyContent not really, those PCMs are quite expensive. Like $1000 for just the part
@@XRIDER0002 depends on the vehicle some are more affordable others are ridiculously priced
Quick Google prices between the two are comparable for this vehicle if you get a used pcm. Either way it's always cheaper to fix the broken part first.
Love how he doesn't have a long intro.
To me, the really good channels, just start, with a minimum of fanfare. SMA is the gold standard for repairs. Eric, in case you read this, make a video about brake jobs.
You could retire off of the other shops diagnosis with all the work they give you! Great job as always doctor O
seriously, I think you are the only competent mechanic in upstate New York. Based on how much work you get from other shops. Really said that other shops can’t diagnose something you can do so simply.
Can't count the number of times I've had 'another shop' condemn a PCM when it turned out an electrical fault was present. Nice find.
I enjoy how thorough you are in analyzing and finding a problem. True competency at work.
IVE BEEN WATCHING ALL YOUR VIDEOS THAT IVE MISSED YOU HAVE THE BEST MOST HONEST SHOP IVE SEEN YOUR A GOOD GUY BUDDY LIKE THE WAY YOU RUN YOUR BUISNESS,,,KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK MR O ,,BEST WISHES FROM ONTARIO🇨🇦🇨🇦
Barrie ontario
@@Thomasploeg1968 I'm in bobcaygeon
Do all you Hosers yell like that?
Lol
Hi to the Great White North from Michigan.
You really made this customer jump with joy !! Good thing the other shop didn't load & fire the "Parts Cannon " ! Way to go Mr. O.
Did you compliment Ford for something? I just fell out of my chair! Love your show!!!
What good "timing" on this video, I have the P0016, and P0017 (Bank1) on a 2010 Cadilac with the big 3.0 that I have to diagnose in the morning. Thanks for the great refresher course. Keep up the good work!
i have to say mate. I'm an old spanner man from last century before vehicles went to wizardry to run that i really enjoy the way you critical think the problems then confirm with the magic box. Well done and thanks for entertaining me with your efforts.
Your are an extremely gifted technician Your understanding of the modern auto is 2nd to none. Love your videos.
Those pesky PCM's are always destroying solenoids. lol Thanks Dr. O!
YOUR NUMBER ONE ON YOU TUBE !!!!!
Let us know if ya get the job and fix it we always like a conclusion to all your excellent diagnosis.
Always impressed by you,,. your skill and knowledge and work ethic!
Eric, you are not only a master mechanic and technician, you are also very ethical! ! I have heard you say when making the call to replace a PCM or any other significant module that "you want to be damn sure". Well in this instance you were asked to replace the PCM by the customer, yet you did the "right" thing by confirming the other shop's call. You are a credit to your profession.
What a masterclass video!! Thank you Eric!
Best teacher on RUclips. South Main Auto University.
This was a great video. I soooo appreciate your method of following the evidence test don't guess. Thank you for your work and willingness to share your incredible talents.
I wish I could understand codes and electrical gremlins as much as you do. I'm learning but that's definitely my weak area right now. I think having a very nice scanner would help but I don't feel like shelling out a car note for one right now lol. Anyways great video as always Eric, keep em coming!
The step by step logic is fantastic.
If auto repairs shops were the equivalent of hospitals; most technicians would be Orderlies. And Eric would be the Chief Surgeon!!
Looking forward to the followup on this one! Good luck!
When Eric started to test drive the car, he said something about not wanting to crash. Since I was in the front seat watching the scan tool, I put on a seatbelt around my desk chair.
Thank you for taking the time to take us along
Perfect way to kick off the weekend. Thanks Eric!
You have access to so many things, the signal to it and the actual valve timing, a smoking gun. The resistance check just seems to confirm it. Good job. I wonder if it would have been practical to reverse the two solenoids
Greatest mechanic on RUclips
I like to work on my own car and I can not thank you enough for the great videos and insight on car dionastics. Great job!
Your history as recorded on video has been of great value to me! A similar problem with your steps of troubleshooting recorded on a small Chevy
Eric, I think a Bed and Breakfast alongside your business would be a excellent addition to your auto business, the out of towners call make an appointment for car truck repair and lodge for several days while car or truck is logged in for work, happy customers get the repairs done right and not ripped off, Mrs O gets to run a motel and breakfast dinner , lunch cooking business and does accounting work in her spare time and home school your kids at the same time ! Vanessa is going to love this suggestion.
Another success, no surprise 🗽🗽🔧🔧🔩🔩🔨🔨
Smart cookie! Cookie. Thanks for letting us watch!
Bravo on the correct diagnosis ! ... bet that is going to win you a new customer (and their friends and family)
So good to see you back doing Videos.
The people in that town are lucky to have such a great mechanic. I'd stop working on my cars if I lived there.
As usual you did a great job on diagnosis and explaining to us what you are doing. You earn your money and excellent reputation...
U are SO good at diagnosing electrical problems!
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics is another great show.
Make sure that you CHECK THE OIL anytime something comes in with VVT codes. Even a solenoid right next to the one that works can be affected moreso by the air bubbles than the other.
nice honest job as usual you will bring a big smile to your customer
It’s nice to see you’re not a shop prima donna, you’ll do a repair like this and in another video do spring shackles, kudos
Thank you very much for ALL your videos and YES I have learned a lot from watching your videos. Your a real confidence builder!! Appreciate you man!!
OKAY , lets FOCUS !
“ if I can do you you can do it “ Amen to that. I love when you say that 👍🏼😂
The Master at work.
Repair as they come I guess this customer get to keep there vehicle it good to see that there are people buying parts for it cool it will see you on the next one .
People have commented about a chassis dyno, a dash mount for a camera that is easy to attach/detach would also be an idea so you don't need to hold it.
Eric O makin it look easy again.!!
(Fat fingers didn’t let me finish) led me to check ohms on a solenoid on the thermostat and made my own diagnosis very simple. Thanks!
Damn, that split screen feature on the Autel looks handy!!
great job in diagnosing the real problem.
Looks like you did need the big fancy scan tool for this job.
It seems like there's another shop nearby that decides that any code that comes up warrants a pcm replacement. Lol. There are a bunch of different videos where that's the story. Good thing they found Mr. O!
One of the best teachers
I think I've watched every video you've made in the last 5+ years. Has it ever been the PCM? I think one time when the parts cannon approach fried the 'puter. You mailed it out to a place for repairs, if I remember correctly.
*DON'T BE A PARTS CHANGER!*
Great job Mr O!
Another informative and useful video; following your diagnostics I have figured out a long standing issue. Your comment about command given and only a partial response rung a bell. That's why my wife is always mad with me. Commend given (from her) and partial response (from me). Hmmmm... what could be the fix?
Replace the male solenoid & test it afterwards!
Great work doctor eric..another sick engine is diagnosed✌
Well done a real mechanic.
"If I can do it, you can do it" - Evidently the shop that referred it to you however, couldn't do it.
They hadn't watched Eric's video!
Another good video with logical troubleshooting.
Great diagnosis. It pays to be thorough.
Im sure you just saved that lady a ton of $ compared to ecm replacement. Good job
customer needs to question his loyalty to the other shop. Good job as usual.
Sherlock Holmes of the modern junk automotive world, very impressive deduction, Sir!
Well, you were half right on the ohms, but you didn't half azzit on the call like shop X. Always a pleasure.
Another good one. You make it look easy peasy... Thanks for sharing..
When you know how to diagnose. Good $ and I give you props because not everyone knows
had the same problem with my nissan primera soaked the sucker with some bars liquid penetrant and it worked
Nice one Eric👍
Man, was hoping for that elusive “main board” replacement.
No parts cannon needed here. Nice job.
I had a similar repair on our 2008 Saturn Astra. Only sold for two years, no dealers anymore, GM dealers not very helpful. I’m not half as clever as you, so I just swapped the cam phaser solenoids and the codes changed. I also bought two, because parts were getting scarce.
I just looked at my daughters Mini Cooper and the component test on the Verus showed 8-14 Ohms for a good Vanos solenoid and the exhaust solenoid was under 7 ohms.The duty cycle was in the low 40's instead of the 54% that it asked for.
Seems like shops always want to change the computer. I guess the old saying holds true. "Garbage in Garbage out" That's the reason I will always compare computers to submarines. As soon as you open a window you are in trouble. 😂😂
Great job as usual EO one thing to mention is current ramp those solenoids on another scope channel that proves the sol out. Thank again
Fantastic break down SMA. NAPA SPONSOR THIS MAN!
Nice, I've seen similar issue on one of our fleet Toyota but after replacing a faulty coil, the code also went away
Boy wish I would get notifications for SMA’s awesome vidyas!! I’m missing out on education here!! Lol
A shop that specialises in fixing the mistakes of others (and the ECM diagnosis was a mistake) will always be busy.
Never be afraid to take on the jobs everyone else has failed at.
Thanks for the tips Mrs O
Bernie from ATS says that solenoids are usually commanded 35-40 percent duty cycle in a normal working car.