Ty bro, iv been playin stormforge mop and never played cata before, i just didnt know that “recuperate” here was like snd in mop. Nice info for begginin
Keep it up with Cata videos bro, there’s nothing for rogue pvp out there. Also quick question, wouldn’t it be more dmg to premed then SnD and get the attack speed buff before you open rather than the 13-26 energy from recoup
Thanks! I don't believe so, the energy might not seem that important but also the healing, if you are taking damage from another target gains huge value. If you can have up both slice/recup and a bleed before the stun it adds a lot of damage though 😉
Big noob question. Do sub rogues not use backstab as their filler ability. I hate having hemo AND backstab and always wondering if I’m pressing the wrong button
Thank you for these videos! As a PvE rogue for several years relying on Simoize’s content, I appreciate what you teach for PvP. Quick question, what poisons are you running for BG’s/Arena in general?
Great video. Btw, I have to transfer to horde with friends in Cata, cannot decide with orc vs undead. I understand undead is very good but just wondering if orc stun resist(time reduce) is worth it, since there are heaps of stuns in Cata
I had the same conundrum choosing between Orc/Blood Elf. The way I see it is UD is only good into Warlocks because Priest fears have a CD you can play around, but instantly loses value against Lock + anything with a stun, which is basically everything because a good team can and will punish you with a stun go while your trinket is on CD for 30 seconds. That can absolutely lose you games. Orc however will have value almost every game, and really cucks other rogues because kidney already shares DR with Cheap Shot now, so adding the 15% reduced duration on top of that can really mess with peoples muscle memory because you're going to slip out of the lockdown sooner than expected. Plus, Blood Fury is basically an extra tailoring enchant on demand that you'll have every other dance. Humans will still do more damage with double DPS trinkets, but up until Dragon Soul when the trinkets get really nutty, Blood Fury is going to be very comparable to having an on-use effect.
One thing I will say, do not evis while dancing. Ambush has crazy crit modifiers in cata and it's an opportunity cost to evis during dance. Even if it "wastes" combo points delaying the evis will do much more burst damage as you gain a whole Ambush worth of damage. This is especially important during smoke bomb burst windows.
Backstab is fine at lvl 85, the improved crit talents arn't reachable until after level 80. Backstab still h its harder than hemo ofc but the damage increase gained from having Find weakness is way more significant than either ability. Offering Both as playstyle options.
Engi/Jc and Engi/Tailoring are both great. Tailoring gives a nice AP proc on cloak. Jc is better gems, I'll swap later if I feel like I'm losing for not having it. I'm Engi/JC currently
Daggers are good, but they really pale in comparison to vial of shadows :L Even when they reduced the damage and increased the proc chances it was still significantly more bust.
Are these openers just for the hemo build? Cause when I use the backstab build, I will have just 3 combo points after garrote and dance ambush. In this case, should I go for another ambush before I go for eviscerate?
When using backstab build, I'd go with garrote openers more frequently. This activates sanguinary vain damage increase, then backstab and go for kidney shot to land more stabs. Dance is better thought of as a way to reactivate our find weakness talent. 70% Armor pen is insane.
@@Evasionx Thanks for the answer. So I shouldnt force to have 5 combo points for the kidney shot? When I do garrote and backstab, i probably have 2-3 combo points, then i go for kidney shot cause i want the backstab dmg and dont care for the 1-2 sec more stun?
@Evasionx Do you have a cheap shot opener? People keep peeling away from me when the crippling poisoning isn't applying. Then I get my whole opener screwed up with stuns, interrupts etc... Should I use garrote and certain class/specs and cheap shot on others? Thanks
Precisely! Depending which class you fight, will change how you open. I noticed this as well, (people being able to kite due to slow cripple proc). I wan't to get some more clips and compile this and other common issues, people may be having with the rogue class. ( I am relearning a lot of stuff myself, so I can give updates as I get more practiced with it again). Stay tuned!
I also find the garrote opener frustrating as the target often can move away without crippling on them. And I don't always get 5 combo points from garrote and ambush.
@@helloitsme9024 Decided on Orc ultimately. Yea, locks are very prevalent but rogues have always died in stuns they can't get out of and every other team is going to have another rogue on it (Thug, RLS, RMP, Triple DPS) so I'm thinking while less "clutch" than WotF, Orc racial is going to provide consistent value, plus Blood Fury is super cozy to macro into Dance + Engi gloves and just use a proc or battlemaster trinket
@@Fnfal2020 they needed orc in cata, the bonus you get wil not be as good as before, also casters are good into rouge, thats why you want will of the forsaken
@@Fnfal2020 I mained Rogue since Vanilla and heavily PVP'd in vanilla/TBC, playing Forsaken. I lost my account and had to restart in WotLK and rolled a Blood Elf Rogue just to check out the starter zone (I'd never really seen it before). Learned about Arcane Torrent and have never been able to go back. I literally can't fathom PVPing without it.
Approximately 1 trinket slot. Definitely play undead, if you don't enjoy yourself you will quit anyway and what's the point then. I play human for looks myself, I just got extremely lucky. Even in retail it's definitely been night elf for a long time however my main rogue is a human. Just the way it's gonna be. 👍
cheapshot premed hemo pool to full, kidney, dance dump only ambushes and then if u can eviscerate. eviscerate is gonna blow when the pre patch is over.
why will you waste your St in a opener? Its a gap closer. If you do all these openers as he suggested and u wasted you st you really have little left in ur tool if the target suvives. there is a rule to using shadowstep: 1. if you use it as engage you need to be sure that you kill ur target within 10 sec, 2. save it after target use utilities to escape (mage blink example = you shadowstep after him) 3 You just save it.
there is no rotation on sub, those openers are for new player basicly, you wont even get to that point you garrote--> dance-->ambush evisc--> cheap shot, your energy is low, and if you failed to kill the target you are in trouble bec yo used everything. Rupture can be good vs more tanky opponents and stealther (bec they cant stealth with bleed effects)
In this one shot macro you can have premed and recupe and if you pool your energy a for a sec after kidney and get the Eviscerate off. #showtooltip Garrote /castsequence reset=15 Premeditation,Recuperate,Garrote,Shadow Dance,Ambush,Kidney Shot,Ambush,Ambush,Eviscerate
Glad to see you back bro, used to watch you a lot.
perfect timing for these vids ! gettin stoked for cata
Good stuff mate! Trying to get into rogue pvp, this is very helpful. Keep em coming
Many thanks, I'm an old school rogue who's come back for cata and I've apparently forgotten everything - especially starting with recup already up!
the king is back! keen to see your cata rogue arc
Thanks for this. There is nothing out atm like this and was hoping there was more
Happy to help! Goodluck out there.
Ty bro, iv been playin stormforge mop and never played cata before, i just didnt know that “recuperate” here was like snd in mop. Nice info for begginin
Keep it up with Cata videos bro, there’s nothing for rogue pvp out there. Also quick question, wouldn’t it be more dmg to premed then SnD and get the attack speed buff before you open rather than the 13-26 energy from recoup
Thanks! I don't believe so, the energy might not seem that important but also the healing, if you are taking damage from another target gains huge value. If you can have up both slice/recup and a bleed before the stun it adds a lot of damage though 😉
Big noob question. Do sub rogues not use backstab as their filler ability. I hate having hemo AND backstab and always wondering if I’m pressing the wrong button
Depends on talents.
Love the guide, keep posting some cata content!
Thank you for these videos! As a PvE rogue for several years relying on Simoize’s content, I appreciate what you teach for PvP. Quick question, what poisons are you running for BG’s/Arena in general?
good to see you again!
Great video. Btw, I have to transfer to horde with friends in Cata, cannot decide with orc vs undead. I understand undead is very good but just wondering if orc stun resist(time reduce) is worth it, since there are heaps of stuns in Cata
I had the same conundrum choosing between Orc/Blood Elf. The way I see it is UD is only good into Warlocks because Priest fears have a CD you can play around, but instantly loses value against Lock + anything with a stun, which is basically everything because a good team can and will punish you with a stun go while your trinket is on CD for 30 seconds. That can absolutely lose you games. Orc however will have value almost every game, and really cucks other rogues because kidney already shares DR with Cheap Shot now, so adding the 15% reduced duration on top of that can really mess with peoples muscle memory because you're going to slip out of the lockdown sooner than expected. Plus, Blood Fury is basically an extra tailoring enchant on demand that you'll have every other dance. Humans will still do more damage with double DPS trinkets, but up until Dragon Soul when the trinkets get really nutty, Blood Fury is going to be very comparable to having an on-use effect.
One thing I will say, do not evis while dancing. Ambush has crazy crit modifiers in cata and it's an opportunity cost to evis during dance. Even if it "wastes" combo points delaying the evis will do much more burst damage as you gain a whole Ambush worth of damage. This is especially important during smoke bomb burst windows.
It can be alright if you are really low on energy to squeeze one in, but if its going to cost you an ambush, most of the time its not worth it
Thank you so much
great videos man was wondering if you're planning on doing a Mutilate guide as well for pvp?
Mutilate is fun, there's a possibility!
@@Evasionx I remember watching vids when I was a kid of like Merceder doing mutilate and just taking multiple people on 1 by 1 hahaha
I've never played Cata but I noticed you didnt use backstab at all. Is hemo the new backstab or whats the reason?
Backstab is fine at lvl 85, the improved crit talents arn't reachable until after level 80. Backstab still h its harder than hemo ofc but the damage increase gained from having Find weakness is way more significant than either ability. Offering Both as playstyle options.
@@Evasionx Gotcha. Thanks man. Would love to see some arena games vs the typical meta comps in cata in 2v2 or so :) Following you now !
U dont use backstab? Why using more then 1 hemo? Backstab deals more dmg or what for same cost. i dont get it.
are the talents you are using in this build the hemo build talents from your last cata rogue guide?
LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
more cata pvp videos! :)
hey bro,love your vids. what professions i go for as a rogue for arena in cata? big thanks
Engi/Jc and Engi/Tailoring are both great. Tailoring gives a nice AP proc on cloak. Jc is better gems, I'll swap later if I feel like I'm losing for not having it. I'm Engi/JC currently
can't wait for daggers to go for 1.5 mil in classic YAYAYYYyayyayaasy
my broke self casually rocking T2 pvp daggers xD
Daggers are good, but they really pale in comparison to vial of shadows :L
Even when they reduced the damage and increased the proc chances it was still significantly more bust.
@@AzurielMist Nerfed Vial is a shadow of its former self but it's still OP. I think we may even see it nerfed AGAIN in Classic.
What do you mean by chain garotte for full? Does that mean dancing and using garrote twice?
ima just be shadowstep ambush until the world ends lol
Does wep speed and wep top end matter still? Also u need dagger OH? Or can use any wep OH?
Are these openers just for the hemo build? Cause when I use the backstab build, I will have just 3 combo points after garrote and dance ambush. In this case, should I go for another ambush before I go for eviscerate?
When using backstab build, I'd go with garrote openers more frequently. This activates sanguinary vain damage increase, then backstab and go for kidney shot to land more stabs. Dance is better thought of as a way to reactivate our find weakness talent. 70% Armor pen is insane.
@@Evasionx Thanks for the answer. So I shouldnt force to have 5 combo points for the kidney shot? When I do garrote and backstab, i probably have 2-3 combo points, then i go for kidney shot cause i want the backstab dmg and dont care for the 1-2 sec more stun?
@Evasionx Do you have a cheap shot opener? People keep peeling away from me when the crippling poisoning isn't applying. Then I get my whole opener screwed up with stuns, interrupts etc... Should I use garrote and certain class/specs and cheap shot on others? Thanks
Precisely! Depending which class you fight, will change how you open. I noticed this as well, (people being able to kite due to slow cripple proc). I wan't to get some more clips and compile this and other common issues, people may be having with the rogue class. ( I am relearning a lot of stuff myself, so I can give updates as I get more practiced with it again). Stay tuned!
@@Evasionx look forward to it. Thanks for the response. Subbed!
I also find the garrote opener frustrating as the target often can move away without crippling on them. And I don't always get 5 combo points from garrote and ambush.
what do you think about sword main hand for hemo build?
You can just garot ambush kidney
Im going horde for cata on my rogue. Can't decide between Blood Elf and Orc for the racials, both seem equally valuable to me, thoughts?
terrible, undead is the way to go in cata
@@helloitsme9024 Decided on Orc ultimately. Yea, locks are very prevalent but rogues have always died in stuns they can't get out of and every other team is going to have another rogue on it (Thug, RLS, RMP, Triple DPS) so I'm thinking while less "clutch" than WotF, Orc racial is going to provide consistent value, plus Blood Fury is super cozy to macro into Dance + Engi gloves and just use a proc or battlemaster trinket
@@Fnfal2020 they needed orc in cata, the bonus you get wil not be as good as before, also casters are good into rouge, thats why you want will of the forsaken
@@Fnfal2020 I mained Rogue since Vanilla and heavily PVP'd in vanilla/TBC, playing Forsaken. I lost my account and had to restart in WotLK and rolled a Blood Elf Rogue just to check out the starter zone (I'd never really seen it before). Learned about Arcane Torrent and have never been able to go back. I literally can't fathom PVPing without it.
when do you use backstab
we dont press backstab at all?
why you use this heal thing in opener instead of slice and dice? i dont get it
There is a sub talent that makes it give u 12 energy every 3 sec. Which should be stronger than auto speed
How much of a disadvantage will I be not rolling human racial? I think I just love undead too much haha
Approximately 1 trinket slot. Definitely play undead, if you don't enjoy yourself you will quit anyway and what's the point then. I play human for looks myself, I just got extremely lucky. Even in retail it's definitely been night elf for a long time however my main rogue is a human. Just the way it's gonna be. 👍
@@Evasionx great advice thank you 🙏
Backstab not used this expans?
It is, but not usually by me. Its good in certain comps and its way better at 85 due to talent point restrictions.
@@Evasionx i see. So if its not talented for 30% crit, u dont ever use it? Stricly hemo
There is no SS ? Just spam hemo?
cheapshot premed hemo pool to full, kidney, dance dump only ambushes and then if u can eviscerate. eviscerate is gonna blow when the pre patch is over.
If anyone’s wondering, rogues,ferals,mm hunters are gonna farm you in cata💀💀💀
why no shadow step before dance?
why will you waste your St in a opener? Its a gap closer. If you do all these openers as he suggested and u wasted you st you really have little left in ur tool if the target suvives. there is a rule to using shadowstep: 1. if you use it as engage you need to be sure that you kill ur target within 10 sec, 2. save it after target use utilities to escape (mage blink example = you shadowstep after him) 3 You just save it.
So Rupture is useless into the rotation?
there is no rotation on sub, those openers are for new player basicly, you wont even get to that point you garrote--> dance-->ambush evisc--> cheap shot, your energy is low, and if you failed to kill the target you are in trouble bec yo used everything. Rupture can be good vs more tanky opponents and stealther (bec they cant stealth with bleed effects)
Do you use Daggers with this spec?
Yup, better poison things.
I don't think opening with dance on cata is good. You should just premed recuperate cheapshot hemo backstab kidney backstab
I agree, as backstab spec at 85 I'd be doing this lots. Edit: find weakness is kinda awesome 👌
Health regen. No no no no
kidney and cheap shot sharing DR feels terrible
Yeah being able to burn down a fully geared caster without them ever getting the chance to respond sucks, I hope you’re able to get over it
@@flankman9385you mean the casters that a one button rotation that does half your hp a cast
@@flankman9385laughs in frost mage
Ofc they share DR they are both stuns! What are you talking about
@@RoveRomania they never shared DR in vanilla/tbc and wotlk, so stfu if you know nothing about rogue pls
Cata sux
In this one shot macro you can have premed and recupe and if you pool your energy a for a sec after kidney and get the Eviscerate off.
#showtooltip Garrote
/castsequence reset=15 Premeditation,Recuperate,Garrote,Shadow Dance,Ambush,Kidney Shot,Ambush,Ambush,Eviscerate
Trash