As a new rider, I got my brother to help me. We did what we call "follow the leader" and I learned to swerve and play around following him. My first bike is the 03 Yamaha Vstar and he rides a HD 883 and a Honda Rebel 250 and we have a ton of fun together. I started riding because of your videos and I appreciate your faith my man. Keep it up. Riders for life.
Best counter steering video ever. It's a natural thing and if you ride you do it. This video takes the confusion away....it's like "riding a bike".....a natural thing you do nearly unconsciously. If you ride 1 mile on a curvy road you have done it.
Ignore breezelow and his post he is on an ego trip and likes to post confusing terminology on videos about countersteering if you rake thru his posts, his contention is how the motorcycle is steering, ie which way are the handlebars and front wheel actually pointing in a curve? he is correct in that when you turn left the front wheel IS turning slightly to the left but the term "counter steering" is referring to what the RIDER is doing, not how the motorcycle is responding to what the rider is doing and what the rider is doing is really all that matters - the RIDER has to know, as I approach this sweeping left curve at 70mph, do i apply a force to the handle bars in a CCW direction, like I would in a car, to make the car go left? or do I push the left grip forwards, counter to what I would do in a car? THAT is when you have to understand countersteering clearly enough to know which grip to push, or to push harder, or how to switch in the middle of an S curve, or how to loosen or tighten the curve if you have to slow down, avoid an obstacle, or take a curve up or down a steep hill. It has to be clear in your mind, and you have to practice it everytime you ride. what actually happens, the motorcycle at speed IS self balancing - you cant make it fall over unless you lock up the wheels all you can do is perturb the bike off its stable "go straight and stay vertical" self balance, and make it lean and IT stays balanced on a turn. To do that...to go left you PUSH the left grip forward (the opposite of how you would steer a car) So how does the front wheel turn to the left when you are PUSHING on the left grip? because the spinning front wheel pushes BACK against your hand, leaning the bike to the left trying to keep it straight and vertical, but as long as you are pushing on the left grip it cant lean far enough to cancel out your interference, so it stays in the lean and turn as long as you keep pushing that grip. it makes sense when you think about it: Because the motorcycle is self balancing, if you take your hands off the grips it keeps going straight - when you push on one grip, the steering HAS TO push back and try to cancel out the force you are applying. If it didnt, the slightest nudge you put on the grip would cause the handlebars to snap over all the way hard till it hit the steering stops, and you would go flying over the handlebars. And the slightest bump or puff of cross wind would cause the steering to go hard over and make the bike fall. You can make a motorcycle inherently unstable that would do that! Just bend the front fork backwards until it is past 90° vertical, and move the front axle so it is leading the centerline of the fork instead of trailing it, and you would have a completely unstable and un-ridable motorcycle. BTW, the video link in breezelow's post is to lesson on how to steer a CAR thru a skid - it has nothing to do with motorcycles.
I got my first motorcycle when I was 18 and I wrote it till I was 21 and then I had a car have not had another one cents. I’m 67 and I’ve gotten two motorcycles and started driving them again. I watch the counter steering video and I thought no way. So today I went out and I tried it… It was amazing. If you tug on the left handle bar you’re going to lean right. If you tug on the right handle bar You’re going to lean less! So I’ve been practicing it for several hours trying to commit it to muscle memory. It is so much easier to meet curves if you countersteer. Thank you for the video and I am a much better driver now
Counter steering is a lot like engine breaking. It's super simple and you're already doing it, you probably just didn't have someone call it by that name before.
@breezelow unknown counter steering is literally an action that creates lean so the bike turns at higher speeds. its both. As long as you can generate lean and maintain forward motion, the bike will turn.
I agree that counter-steering happens intuitively because like you said, it works. I did appreciate when I took my safety course that the instructors spent a good deal of time explaining counter steering and then we consciously practised it starting with slaloming between cones at speed and once we got that down, we practised it in emergency obstacle evasion and emergency braking. Once you get the feel for it, it all makes sense on a body and muscle memory level, which is what you need to establish so if an emergency happens you just do it without thinking about it.
I watched so many videos on counter-steering before I bought my first bike. They may have helped a little, just to get the idea in my head, but it just came naturally when I got on the seat for the first time.
That's what my local MSF teacher said when I asked him about it a few weeks ago. He basically asked me to remember when I was a kid hauling ass on a bicycle and needing to turn. Told him I simply pushed a slightly downward motion on the handles and the bike leaned and turned. He just laughed and said "See? Everyone who's ever needed to turn on two wheels at a higher speed automatically knows how to do it." He also said that the biggest reason why people are confused about counter steering is because most everyone tends to over explain it. "Just get on a bike and do it"
Easy explanation: With the bike stopped, if you steer the bar to the left - the bike will naturally lean to the right and vice-versa. While you're riding at not so low speeds it's the same.
This is the most helpful video on the topic. Relating to a bicycle and using a bike with beach bars and repeating that we already do it rather than it being some new technique and that the importance is KNOWING that we are doing it rather than riding intuitively...more control. I think with smaller bikes it is more like a bicycle and easier to ride intuitively...Moving up to a big cruiser and this is super helpful. *THANK YOU!*
This is Bicycle riding 101. I just call it "low speed steering" vs "high speed steering." This is one of those rare cases where something is easily DONE than SAID. (for most people that is).
I think what helps one understand the difference is an exercise we were doing in my Motorcycle Safety Course. We get up to mid range speed in second gear and perform a long sweeping turn in a cone lane. Exit the lane. Straighten up, downshift and brake...then go into the friction zone and do a slow speed uturn and re-enter the lane and go back the other way. After doing this numerous times you can feel how you are pushing the handle bar at speed and turning the handle bar going super slow.
Good video. How i remember. With both hands on the grip & going above 15mph. if you push the handlebar grip on the right you go right. If you push the handlebar grip on the left you go left. Push right go right. Push left go left.
its amazing how i never ever rode a motorcycle, and when i started taking classes last week, i was doing it without even thinking, it's extremely intuitive
Nice explanation. There are riders who say you just lean into the turn. But in actuality they are leaning into the handlebars. When Im riding at speed I sence that I'm pusing forward on the inside turn handlebars a direction, a point, that's about 2" to 4" in front of the front wheel axle. Practice makes perfect, and practice avoiding little potholes, splotches and rocks in the road.
Hi Guy's Happy New Year, I have a Question on A Video I'd Love to see, I am A Biker I started Riding at age 11 and I am 60 Now and Still Enjoy Riding, I don't have a Bike right now mine died in 96, but my Idea for a Video would be For Riders Safety, other Bikers don't know that you should Ride in Formation Not Side by Side in Case one of us had to Swerve away from oncoming Cars or Trucks etc. Would that Fall in For A Safety Rule for ALL Bikers? That would be Great for Beginners who are Just Starting to Ride, My Daughter Rides up In Maine she takes after Her Dad {Me} and She Also Served 8 Years in The ARMY, I am So Dam Proud of Her, Well Keep in Touch and Again Ride SAFE.
This is the best explanation of counter steering I’ve found. I am a new rider-actually, going to be a new rider- and I’ve been doing research on all this stuff. I’m 42 and everything I’ve seen thus far has not made a lick of sense with regard to counter steering. Thank you. I’m looking to take a MSF course for my license and I just wanted to have, somewhat of a grasp on this; but, until your video, the concept has been so poorly explained that it totally eluded me.
So I grew up in PA, been in WI the past 2 years. Was looking up motorcycle videos and was like damn this really looks like familiar territory. Because it was. You were driving around out close to Roots. Crazy to see something local on youtube, even crazier to recognize it was.
Great. Been riding many years old gentleman told me about countersteering one quite a few barroom best with if you want to go right which way do you turn your handlebars easy money
I swear the people that don't get this never tried it. Do it one time while riding and you will see that it does work. And it works very well. I like to lean too but countersteer will make you lean right now.
Very important stuff. As a new rider it’s easy to ride into curves a bit faster than you might be able to handle since you cannot lay down the bike that far without being active on the counter steer. Learn it, use it and become a better driver. It might be your life hanging on it.
This is why I'm excited about a new learners track where I live. The MSF crew here has been talking about renting it (there's a huge space for traditional MSF courses) for the intermediate and advanced classes, so we can actually get up to a higher speed and learn how bikes handle rather than simply learning parking lot maneuvers.
This was instantly intuitive. So much so that I've watched a lot of these kind of videos because I was convinced I must be missing something. How can you NOT countersteer?
Forks Trip You can't but lots of people are only very vaguely aware of it and sometimes even completely mistaken about what they are actually doing to steer the bike. It may not be a problem until they find themselves entering a turn "too hot" at which point it is too late to realize that you don't actually know what you are doing.
It's just physics. You probably learned in high school that an object in motion tends to travel in a straight line. Additionally, a motorcycle has two large gyroscopes under it that force it into a stable straight line. It's easy to feel this if your going at least 30 mph or faster. If you gently push the right grip forward (turn left) the motorcycle "wants" to go back to it's center line and will lean right and turn right. If you gently push the left grip forward the motorcycle "wants to lean/turn left toward its original line. You are absolutely correct about not having to think hard about this. If you're turning off your original straight line you are counter steering. The same forces apply in a car. If you make a hard right turn you are pushed toward the left, If you let go of the steering wheel the car will go straight from that point. The physics is the same but a motorcycle turns by leaning and a car doesn't, since it has 4 wheels, although it does lean some. Turning a car hard enough right will cause it to roll over to the left, toward the direction of it's original line. A car overcomes the centrifugal force, at least until it flips over, but a two wheeled motorcycle does not have that luxury. Try turning the motorcycle and keep it perpendicular to the street at the same time. Actually, no, don't try that.
The reason you don't have to think about it is that the rider is constantly making adjustments to hold the curved line. If you push the grip in the wrong direction you WILL correct to make the bike go where you want or lose control.
Since a mc tire is round it turns in the direction of lean just like rolling a cone on a surface rolls in a circle. The inner edge of the tire has a lesser diameter than the center of the tire, it also has lesser circumference, therefore it will carry you less distance down the roadway for each rotation of the tire than if you were traveling upright, on the center portion of the tire. This causes the bike to turn into the direction of the lean, even though the front steering wheel is not turned. However, you are correct that the car/mc tire example is not the best since a car tire is flat and a mc tire is round. The forces are a little different.
The contact angle is the same regardless of patch size. Racing bikes also have a very aggressive cornering geometry that racers counteract by pulling on the low grip to keep from falling over too far. In an aggressive lean they are counter steering into the curve (as you indicate) to prevent their bike from falling (maintain balance). That doesn't change the fact that a round tire is basically a conical section and when leaned off center will roll in a circle.
the same forces happen in a car, except they are all fighting the turn instead of helping when you turn the steering in a car you are rotation the direction of the tire INTO the turn you want the resulting gyroscopic precession force of the spinning tire tries to lean the tire to the left in a right turn. All that force is trying to rip the front suspension off the ball joints and tie rods and shock anchor points in the frame. that along with the centripetal force of the mass of the car body, is trying to roll the car over (or up on two wheels because it wants to be a motorcycle :) to the left in a right turn. THAT is the beauty and elegance of a motorcycle - when you take a curve everything is in balance and working together. The weight load on the tires even stays centered on the wheels and spokes. By contrast when you turn a car it is literally trying to rip itself apart, and trying to pull the tires sideways off the rims.
You just saved me bro. At the yellow turn sign with small curve but not a big curve enough to use counter steering, u push and pull to turn. I had hard time figuring that out.
This is the reason we took some time learning to ride a bicycle. The brain learned to countersteer. The child's first instinct is to steer away from the lean or turn the handlebar in the direction they wanted to go. It's the reason I smashed into my mom's flowerpots a couple of times. When a child finally learns to ride a bicycle, she has essentially learned and imprinted countersteering.
Pointing out counter steering is great because that is how bikes turn at speed. Almost all new riders don't know what that is. But, your explanation is overly complicated. It's really simple, .. you want to go right, press slightly on the right grip. You want to go left, .. press lightly on the left grip. That's it. You can explain how pushing the grip essentially points the front wheel in the opposite direction as to where you are headed, (hence COUNTER steer), but how physics then takes over with drag, gravity and velocity then actually pushers you in the direction you want to go towards. But why? You want to go left push slightly on the left grip. You want to go right, push on the right grip. I will avoid my circumstance, being a one armed rider, whereby I need to push or pull with EVERY change of direction.
If you have ever rode a bicycle it's the same thing. If your going super fast on a bicycle and want to turn left around a curve what would you do. It's the same on a motorcycle. Everyone who has ridden a bicycle in there life has counter steered there whole life without knowing it.
You lean and as you lean in a certain direction left pressure forward (COUNTER) on left hand . . . right pressure forward (COUNTER) on right hand. counter steering is only effective at speeds requiring lean.
there is no reason to lean off your bike in a curve, unless you are going too fast and there is the risk your frame will hit the pavement causing the bike to slide out from under you. In most places if you are taking a corner that fast you cannot SEE THRU the curve and you will not be able to stop or swerve if some thing or someone is in your lane. Also if you have spoked wheels, leaning your body weight off the CG of the motorcycle causes a side load on the wheels, because they are not in line with the center of mass of you + the bike. That can cause spoke failure in the long run. Ride Responsibly.
Several years ago, I used to ride downhill on my bicycle going maybe... 15-30 mph. I was countersteering without even fully realizing what I was doing.
counter steering makes the bike lean into the turn. when you go in too fast and start to panic, you might have the wrong instinct to turn the bars in the direction of the turn. when you do that, it has the opposite effect, it will make it stand up and go off the road. I recently bought a long wheelbase, heavy, sport touring bike. when riding one like this, it is more important to use what I call, "mental counter steering". instead of relying on your instincts like normal, you might say you have to actually tell yourself to use extra push on the bar. when you're riding a sport bike or adventure bike, the center of gravity is higher up in relationship to the axles. my sport touring, and most cruisers, the center of gravity is closer to the axles, and the bike naturally wants to go straight. this is great on the highway, makes it really stable, but works against you on the turns. when I first got my bike and took it to my favorite back road, I almost got in trouble on the first turn that was a little tight, and I went way too wide and got uncomfortably close to the edge of the pavement. from then on I learned to really concentrate on getting that thing leaned over and be less aggressive entering a turn until I felt comfortable with my amount of lean before slowly getting back on the throttle.
have been riding for years, had a moment of complete space out and at 60 miles per hour I began moving to the left when I wanted to be moving to the right. It felt completely weird and was confusing for a moment. I have no idea how this reverted in my head, but it did. I had to regroup and get back on track. Never thought about it until this happened yesterday, so for the first time I looked it up.... cause I was like how did I get confused.
So what you are saying is; By using your tire shape, curved on each side this curve will cause the tire to grip to one side; be it left or right and by forcing the grip down on the side of that turn it will make the bike ride the (cup) curved section of the tire. The side of the tire being shorter than the center of the tire so the tire shape is part of the steering.
Am I missing something? It looks as tho if you push towards your left your bike leans left and goes left. If you push to the right, your bike leans right and goes right. What part is 'counter' about that?
I was told by a few riders I work with to "never pull the bars when turning, even at low speeds." Their reasoning was that newer riders (which I will be, plan on buying a bike very, very soon) tend to pull too hard and end up lowsiding. What's your thoughts? I like to gather as many opinions as I can before I get out and really start riding myself.
Do whatever comes naturally. Depends on your physical size and your arm length and the bike and all sorts of variables. On my rocket I tended to push... on my two "standard" bikes I tended to pull.
You probably ought to ignore the guys that you work with and get some real rider training. Take a MSF basic rider course or even better yet is the basic Total Control rider training course if one is scheduled close enough to get to conveniently.
i didint even knew what countersteering was and the guys were laughing at me lol...they said:you know what you do when you lean in the curve. my only answer was, i dont know it does it all alone lol.
I always thought about it as you countersteer to make the bike fall to initiate the turn and fight the gyro effect, never really though about it you just do it.
Excellent video. I've heard some strange things said about counter-steering, like: "oh you only have to do it on motorcycles, not bicycles" ! And I'm like, WTF?
So, when you're at a higher speed you have a gyro effect where the bike wants to stay upright and keep moving forward. you can turn the handlebars and think they're not turning but they will be turning you just do not notice because the bike will seem like the handlebars did not move. You have to remember you are inside a gyro effect. It will make sense once you experience it.
So really, you just counter steer a MINUTE amount to initiate the lean in the desired direction, then follow it by THEN turning the bars in THAT direction. But it's all very minimal, especially at speed?
No you don't " then follow it by THEN turning the bars in THAT direction". Bike does that for you. If you turn handle bars into a turn, the bike will sturn another direction.
@@softailfun thanks for the redundant reply 10 months after the fact. Calling someone that (at the time) had never ridden a motorcycle a clown is helpful too. Hope you feel superior. 👍
@@spacebear49 Shouldn’t have really been giving advise then should you. Kinda serious shit steering a bike you know. Maybe take the comment down, you’ll look less of a clown. Just saying!
@@softailfun you might notice that my comment ended with a "?"... this makes it a question. Which 2 other people answered months ago. If you don't understand that, then maybe don't throw the word clown around so freely. Unless you want to discuss the definition of "irony"... have a good day.
I actually for a long time have known that I do this on my bicycle. I have a cruiser with ape hangers, and I always see super bike races where these guys are cornering and dragging their knee and it looks like they are constantly turning in the opposite direction... then when I'm turning at a high rate of speed I see myself slightly doing this too.. Now I know why.
To counter steer, you can push right to lean and turn right or pull left to lean and turn right. Both are counter steering. I prefer to pull except when braking. With that said I am concerned how this is taught to new riders. I tell them that how to turn a motorcycle you lean it. Your brain naturally learns very quickly that counter steer leans the bike so there is no need to complicate it. It’s safer for the rider to think of leaning as the mans of turning and not steering as you lean in the direction you want to turn. If you want to turn sharper lean more. I believe it’s dangerous especially for new riders to focus on steering in the opposite direction they intend to turn. This is especially true in an emergency situation where it is likely the rider in a panic may steer in the intended direction of travel. The way I explain it is this. How do you turn a motorcycle? You lean it. How do you lean a motorcycle? You counter steer. Understand counter steering and then put it out of mind and focus on leaning as the means to turning a motorcycle.
Chris Taylor Push left, go left.... Push right, go right. If you're telling them to lean without discussing counter steering....... Well that's just dumb! No counter steering, no lean!
People simply over theorizing this thing. To turn right, you turn the bar to right. But the centrifuge will forces you to the left. Therefore, you lean your body to the right. The faster your speed, the less you turn and the more you lean.
I actually thought that this was counter steering but I think that this is just push steering. I saw a physics video on here showing counter steering and it's pointing the wheel in the opposite direction of the turn while leaning and then readjusting the wheel to go with the turn at the same time as the lean
Counter steering = push steering. Same thing. The cartoon video you refer to is probably the worst video on RUclips for explaining this topic! The rider never steers into a bend when counter steering. He/she maintains a forward pressure on the inside grip for the duration of the bend.
Anyone who's ever successfully ridden a bike has counter steered without knowing it this while making sense to me made me over think it when I did my riding course a few years ago
everyone who thought they knew how to ride a motorcycle because they could ride a bicycle when they were a kid dies at the first sweeping 70mph curve they come to because they try to steer like a car, or they try to turn by shifting their body weight on the seat and the bike goes the opposite direction of where the road is they are not here to watch this video.... they are dead
If you've ever ridden a bicycle, you are already doing it. Don't overthink it. Look at it this way...when you turn a corner at very low speed on a bike, you turn to the direction you want to go because you are using the top center of your tire. At a higher speed, you would turn right but can only use more of the right side wall of the tire and not the top center because you have to lean to turn, and the only way you can lean on the right side wall is to push the handle bars slightly left then lean and presto. Think about it..if you yanked your handle bars at high speed right or left, you will be bucked off and crash. Does it make sense??
Gotcha. ill definitely look into it next time i ride. Dont know why it just seems impossible. lol guess its how its explained. thanks for taking the time to explain a little more. greatly appreciated.
That's why you need to practice until it's completely intuitive. Push the right grip forward to go right, push the left grip forward to go left. The more pressure on the grip, the quicker the lean.
I get what you are saying!! Finally!! I was reading too much into it. And earlier I was thinking “I rode the hell out of bicycles when I was a kid so I had to have done this!!?” 😂. Now after listening to you, I finally just get it. Thank u so much man.
You ah, you are steering by pushing the steering handlebar left or right from the center point of the handlebar. So for me and for any newbies, should be enough. What you people's are doing is by making it more difficult. Plain and simple is steering the handlebar left or right and entering the corner, simple by leaning you body in the direction your entering.
Riding style is the big issue with counter steering. On a sport bike counter steering happens more naturally because the rider is leaning forward with a fair amount of weight pushing on the grips. On a cruiser the rider is in many cases leaning back and pulling on the grips requiring the rider to shift their weight a little to be able to push on the grip for the desired reaction. So yea, pro's and cons of riding styles
jiglei89 Yes, and you are leaning the bike by counter steering. The rider leans with the bike, the bike doesn't lean because the rider shifts his weight a little. Leaning by the rider achieves nothing.
if you find yourself a bit to fast going into a turn instead of hitting the brakes and losing it counter stear which will lean the bike over farther and now you can add throttle. be safe guys
Happy New Year guys and for another thing living by the seat of your pants most of the time will make you break out in a case of road rash and speaking for myself I don't like road rash Road Rash hurts LOL haha be safe keep that rubber side down till next time
So this is just a thing that everyone already does, and this only applies when you are going over a certain speed, right? So when you're going quite slowly, rolling around a parking lot or whatever, it's the exact opposite - you push on the right grip to go left instead of to go right. So how does your brain know the exact speed at which you have to switch from regular steering to counter steering? What happens if you're at exactly that speed in the middle where you are supposed to switch and you need to make a turn? Is your brain really that accurate of a gauge of speed? This whole thing just seems bizarre to me. I don't understand it at all.
As a new rider, I got my brother to help me. We did what we call "follow the leader" and I learned to swerve and play around following him. My first bike is the 03 Yamaha Vstar and he rides a HD 883 and a Honda Rebel 250 and we have a ton of fun together. I started riding because of your videos and I appreciate your faith my man. Keep it up. Riders for life.
Best counter steering video ever. It's a natural thing and if you ride you do it. This video takes the confusion away....it's like "riding a bike".....a natural thing you do nearly unconsciously.
If you ride 1 mile on a curvy road you have done it.
Moark Willy this countered steering was busting my head until I saw this video as u said best one 👍
Moark Willy , in just a minute , I understood were this genius is headed !
Moark Willy , in just a minute , I understood were this genius is headed !
Moark Willy , in just a minute , I understood were this genius is headed !
I've always done this without thinking. Now I'm having to stop and think about it. Thinking has never been a good thing for me!!
the same haha...i didint knew what it was
Lol same here I was like what is that then I was wtf and I thought some more brain exploded I've been doing that my whole life and never realized it
So true dude
Any updates on the aftermath of your thinking?
Ignore breezelow and his post
he is on an ego trip and likes to post confusing terminology on videos about countersteering
if you rake thru his posts, his contention is how the motorcycle is steering, ie which way are the handlebars and front wheel actually pointing in a curve?
he is correct in that when you turn left the front wheel IS turning slightly to the left
but the term "counter steering" is referring to what the RIDER is doing, not how the motorcycle is responding to what the rider is doing
and what the rider is doing is really all that matters - the RIDER has to know, as I approach this sweeping left curve at 70mph, do i apply a force to the handle bars in a CCW direction, like I would in a car, to make the car go left? or do I push the left grip forwards, counter to what I would do in a car?
THAT is when you have to understand countersteering clearly enough to know which grip to push, or to push harder, or how to switch in the middle of an S curve, or how to loosen or tighten the curve if you have to slow down, avoid an obstacle, or take a curve up or down a steep hill. It has to be clear in your mind, and you have to practice it everytime you ride.
what actually happens, the motorcycle at speed IS self balancing - you cant make it fall over unless you lock up the wheels
all you can do is perturb the bike off its stable "go straight and stay vertical" self balance, and make it lean and IT stays balanced on a turn.
To do that...to go left you PUSH the left grip forward (the opposite of how you would steer a car)
So how does the front wheel turn to the left when you are PUSHING on the left grip?
because the spinning front wheel pushes BACK against your hand, leaning the bike to the left trying to keep it straight and vertical, but as long as you are pushing on the left grip it cant lean far enough to cancel out your interference, so it stays in the lean and turn as long as you keep pushing that grip.
it makes sense when you think about it: Because the motorcycle is self balancing, if you take your hands off the grips it keeps going straight - when you push on one grip, the steering HAS TO push back and try to cancel out the force you are applying. If it didnt, the slightest nudge you put on the grip would cause the handlebars to snap over all the way hard till it hit the steering stops, and you would go flying over the handlebars. And the slightest bump or puff of cross wind would cause the steering to go hard over and make the bike fall.
You can make a motorcycle inherently unstable that would do that! Just bend the front fork backwards until it is past 90° vertical, and move the front axle so it is leading the centerline of the fork instead of trailing it, and you would have a completely unstable and un-ridable motorcycle.
BTW, the video link in breezelow's post is to lesson on how to steer a CAR thru a skid - it has nothing to do with motorcycles.
I got my first motorcycle when I was 18 and I wrote it till I was 21 and then I had a car have not had another one cents. I’m 67 and I’ve gotten two motorcycles and started driving them again. I watch the counter steering video and I thought no way. So today I went out and I tried it… It was amazing. If you tug on the left handle bar you’re going to lean right. If you tug on the right handle bar You’re going to lean less! So I’ve been practicing it for several hours trying to commit it to muscle memory. It is so much easier to meet curves if you countersteer. Thank you for the video and I am a much better driver now
Counter steering is a lot like engine breaking. It's super simple and you're already doing it, you probably just didn't have someone call it by that name before.
+Anon Amos exactly
Anybody that’s rode dirt bikes growing up has counter steered. Just didn’t know it was called that. It’s like second nature.
@@600rrcbr7 same as bicycles
@breezelow unknown take a turn going 40 on a bike without pushing your handlebars and tell me how that goes for ya bud
@breezelow unknown counter steering is literally an action that creates lean so the bike turns at higher speeds. its both. As long as you can generate lean and maintain forward motion, the bike will turn.
I agree that counter-steering happens intuitively because like you said, it works.
I did appreciate when I took my safety course that the instructors spent a good deal of time explaining counter steering and then we consciously practised it starting with slaloming between cones at speed and once we got that down, we practised it in emergency obstacle evasion and emergency braking.
Once you get the feel for it, it all makes sense on a body and muscle memory level, which is what you need to establish so if an emergency happens you just do it without thinking about it.
Sounds like a really good course that you took. Now I know what to ask/look for in a course.
I watched so many videos on counter-steering before I bought my first bike. They may have helped a little, just to get the idea in my head, but it just came naturally when I got on the seat for the first time.
That's what my local MSF teacher said when I asked him about it a few weeks ago. He basically asked me to remember when I was a kid hauling ass on a bicycle and needing to turn. Told him I simply pushed a slightly downward motion on the handles and the bike leaned and turned. He just laughed and said "See? Everyone who's ever needed to turn on two wheels at a higher speed automatically knows how to do it." He also said that the biggest reason why people are confused about counter steering is because most everyone tends to over explain it. "Just get on a bike and do it"
How's your riding going so far?
@@RyMann88 Answer the man! It has been 2 years!
Easy explanation: With the bike stopped, if you steer the bar to the left - the bike will naturally lean to the right and vice-versa. While you're riding at not so low speeds it's the same.
This is the most helpful video on the topic. Relating to a bicycle and using a bike with beach bars and repeating that we already do it rather than it being some new technique and that the importance is KNOWING that we are doing it rather than riding intuitively...more control. I think with smaller bikes it is more like a bicycle and easier to ride intuitively...Moving up to a big cruiser and this is super helpful. *THANK YOU!*
This is Bicycle riding 101. I just call it "low speed steering" vs "high speed steering." This is one of those rare cases where something is easily DONE than SAID. (for most people that is).
I think what helps one understand the difference is an exercise we were doing in my Motorcycle Safety Course. We get up to mid range speed in second gear and perform a long sweeping turn in a cone lane. Exit the lane. Straighten up, downshift and brake...then go into the friction zone and do a slow speed uturn and re-enter the lane and go back the other way. After doing this numerous times you can feel how you are pushing the handle bar at speed and turning the handle bar going super slow.
About to take my final test and I'm watching this at the site and this helped me so much to understand the concept of countersteer!
I think is a big deal because a lot of people drop their bikes and really thought it was the only option. Thank you for the video
Good video. How i remember. With both hands on the grip & going above 15mph. if you push the handlebar grip on the right you go right. If you push the handlebar grip on the left you go left. Push right go right. Push left go left.
its amazing how i never ever rode a motorcycle, and when i started taking classes last week, i was doing it without even thinking, it's extremely intuitive
Nice explanation.
There are riders who say you just lean into the turn. But in actuality they are leaning into the handlebars.
When Im riding at speed I sence that I'm pusing forward on the inside turn handlebars a direction, a point, that's about 2" to 4" in front of the front wheel axle.
Practice makes perfect, and practice avoiding little potholes, splotches and rocks in the road.
Best description I've seen to this day, well played sir, ty! New rider and it has helped so much. Mad love, keep them 2wheels clean!
Hi Guy's Happy New Year, I have a Question on A Video I'd Love to see, I am A Biker I started Riding at age 11 and I am 60 Now and Still Enjoy Riding, I don't have a Bike right now mine died in 96, but my Idea for a Video would be For Riders Safety, other Bikers don't know that you should Ride in Formation Not Side by Side in Case one of us had to Swerve away from oncoming Cars or Trucks etc. Would that Fall in For A Safety Rule for ALL Bikers? That would be Great for Beginners who are Just Starting to Ride, My Daughter Rides up In Maine she takes after Her Dad {Me} and She Also Served 8 Years in The ARMY, I am So Dam Proud of Her, Well Keep in Touch and Again Ride SAFE.
This is the best explanation of counter steering I’ve found. I am a new rider-actually, going to be a new rider- and I’ve been doing research on all this stuff. I’m 42 and everything I’ve seen thus far has not made a lick of sense with regard to counter steering. Thank you. I’m looking to take a MSF course for my license and I just wanted to have, somewhat of a grasp on this; but, until your video, the concept has been so poorly explained that it totally eluded me.
So I grew up in PA, been in WI the past 2 years. Was looking up motorcycle videos and was like damn this really looks like familiar territory. Because it was. You were driving around out close to Roots. Crazy to see something local on youtube, even crazier to recognize it was.
Great. Been riding many years old gentleman told me about countersteering one quite a few barroom best with if you want to go right which way do you turn your handlebars easy money
I swear the people that don't get this never tried it. Do it one time while riding and you will see that it does work. And it works very well. I like to lean too but countersteer will make you lean right now.
Bro I love this channel!!
Very important stuff. As a new rider it’s easy to ride into curves a bit faster than you might be able to handle since you cannot lay down the bike that far without being active on the counter steer. Learn it, use it and become a better driver. It might be your life hanging on it.
This is why I'm excited about a new learners track where I live. The MSF crew here has been talking about renting it (there's a huge space for traditional MSF courses) for the intermediate and advanced classes, so we can actually get up to a higher speed and learn how bikes handle rather than simply learning parking lot maneuvers.
Guy , you are seriously gifted , experienced and a good teacher .
This was instantly intuitive. So much so that I've watched a lot of these kind of videos because I was convinced I must be missing something. How can you NOT countersteer?
Forks Trip
You can't but lots of people are only very vaguely aware of it and sometimes even completely mistaken about what they are actually doing to steer the bike.
It may not be a problem until they find themselves entering a turn "too hot" at which point it is too late to realize that you don't actually know what you are doing.
It's just physics. You probably learned in high school that an object in motion tends to travel in a straight line. Additionally, a motorcycle has two large gyroscopes under it that force it into a stable straight line. It's easy to feel this if your going at least 30 mph or faster. If you gently push the right grip forward (turn left) the motorcycle "wants" to go back to it's center line and will lean right and turn right. If you gently push the left grip forward the motorcycle "wants to lean/turn left toward its original line. You are absolutely correct about not having to think hard about this. If you're turning off your original straight line you are counter steering. The same forces apply in a car. If you make a hard right turn you are pushed toward the left, If you let go of the steering wheel the car will go straight from that point. The physics is the same but a motorcycle turns by leaning and a car doesn't, since it has 4 wheels, although it does lean some. Turning a car hard enough right will cause it to roll over to the left, toward the direction of it's original line. A car overcomes the centrifugal force, at least until it flips over, but a two wheeled motorcycle does not have that luxury. Try turning the motorcycle and keep it perpendicular to the street at the same time. Actually, no, don't try that.
The reason you don't have to think about it is that the rider is constantly making adjustments to hold the curved line. If you push the grip in the wrong direction you WILL correct to make the bike go where you want or lose control.
Since a mc tire is round it turns in the direction of lean just like rolling a cone on a surface rolls in a circle. The inner edge of the tire has a lesser diameter than the center of the tire, it also has lesser circumference, therefore it will carry you less distance down the roadway for each rotation of the tire than if you were traveling upright, on the center portion of the tire. This causes the bike to turn into the direction of the lean, even though the front steering wheel is not turned. However, you are correct that the car/mc tire example is not the best since a car tire is flat and a mc tire is round. The forces are a little different.
The contact angle is the same regardless of patch size. Racing bikes also have a very aggressive cornering geometry that racers counteract by pulling on the low grip to keep from falling over too far. In an aggressive lean they are counter steering into the curve (as you indicate) to prevent their bike from falling (maintain balance). That doesn't change the fact that a round tire is basically a conical section and when leaned off center will roll in a circle.
the same forces happen in a car, except they are all fighting the turn instead of helping
when you turn the steering in a car you are rotation the direction of the tire INTO the turn you want
the resulting gyroscopic precession force of the spinning tire tries to lean the tire to the left in a right turn. All that force is trying to rip the front suspension off the ball joints and tie rods and shock anchor points in the frame.
that along with the centripetal force of the mass of the car body, is trying to roll the car over (or up on two wheels because it wants to be a motorcycle :) to the left in a right turn.
THAT is the beauty and elegance of a motorcycle - when you take a curve everything is in balance and working together. The weight load on the tires even stays centered on the wheels and spokes. By contrast when you turn a car it is literally trying to rip itself apart, and trying to pull the tires sideways off the rims.
What bike are you riding here love that speedometer
You call your right hand your left
Learning counter steering from a dyslexic 🥴
Bro first 3 min were pointless lol
Yeah this made the whole concept confusing
this guy sucks at teaching! he jumps around too much!!!
BTW what bike are you riding? Is it intruder 1800r?
You just saved me bro. At the yellow turn sign with small curve but not a big curve enough to use counter steering, u push and pull to turn. I had hard time figuring that out.
This is the reason we took some time learning to ride a bicycle. The brain learned to countersteer. The child's first instinct is to steer away from the lean or turn the handlebar in the direction they wanted to go. It's the reason I smashed into my mom's flowerpots a couple of times. When a child finally learns to ride a bicycle, she has essentially learned and imprinted countersteering.
Pointing out counter steering is great because that is how bikes turn at speed. Almost all new riders don't know what that is. But, your explanation is overly complicated. It's really simple, .. you want to go right, press slightly on the right grip. You want to go left, .. press lightly on the left grip. That's it. You can explain how pushing the grip essentially points the front wheel in the opposite direction as to where you are headed, (hence COUNTER steer), but how physics then takes over with drag, gravity and velocity then actually pushers you in the direction you want to go towards. But why? You want to go left push slightly on the left grip. You want to go right, push on the right grip. I will avoid my circumstance, being a one armed rider, whereby I need to push or pull with EVERY change of direction.
That's right
I don't think his explanation was over complicated. Every other channel goes all ham on it.
Thanks for the explanation, I've been wondering where on earth the 'counter' part comes in , push left go left. Doesn't sound like an opposite action.
Thank you bro. Ur the only one who's been able to explain it in a way that is understandable to a complete beginner👍
If you have ever rode a bicycle it's the same thing. If your going super fast on a bicycle and want to turn left around a curve what would you do. It's the same on a motorcycle. Everyone who has ridden a bicycle in there life has counter steered there whole life without knowing it.
You lean and as you lean in a certain direction left pressure forward (COUNTER) on left hand . . . right pressure forward (COUNTER) on right hand. counter steering is only effective at speeds requiring lean.
there is no reason to lean off your bike in a curve, unless you are going too fast and there is the risk your frame will hit the pavement causing the bike to slide out from under you.
In most places if you are taking a corner that fast you cannot SEE THRU the curve and you will not be able to stop or swerve if some thing or someone is in your lane.
Also if you have spoked wheels, leaning your body weight off the CG of the motorcycle causes a side load on the wheels, because they are not in line with the center of mass of you + the bike. That can cause spoke failure in the long run.
Ride Responsibly.
Getting ready to get my learners. This helps.
Several years ago, I used to ride downhill on my bicycle going maybe... 15-30 mph. I was countersteering without even fully realizing what I was doing.
Movses Timiryan You have always done that or you would not be here... there.
counter steering makes the bike lean into the turn. when you go in too fast and start to panic, you might have the wrong instinct to turn the bars in the direction of the turn. when you do that, it has the opposite effect, it will make it stand up and go off the road. I recently bought a long wheelbase, heavy, sport touring bike. when riding one like this, it is more important to use what I call, "mental counter steering". instead of relying on your instincts like normal, you might say you have to actually tell yourself to use extra push on the bar. when you're riding a sport bike or adventure bike, the center of gravity is higher up in relationship to the axles. my sport touring, and most cruisers, the center of gravity is closer to the axles, and the bike naturally wants to go straight. this is great on the highway, makes it really stable, but works against you on the turns. when I first got my bike and took it to my favorite back road, I almost got in trouble on the first turn that was a little tight, and I went way too wide and got uncomfortably close to the edge of the pavement. from then on I learned to really concentrate on getting that thing leaned over and be less aggressive entering a turn until I felt comfortable with my amount of lean before slowly getting back on the throttle.
have been riding for years, had a moment of complete space out and at 60 miles per hour I began moving to the left when I wanted to be moving to the right. It felt completely weird and was confusing for a moment. I have no idea how this reverted in my head, but it did. I had to regroup and get back on track. Never thought about it until this happened yesterday, so for the first time I looked it up.... cause I was like how did I get confused.
Best video I've seen on this so far
So what you are saying is; By using your tire shape, curved on each side this curve will cause the tire to grip to one side; be it left or right and by forcing the grip down on the side of that turn it will make the bike ride the (cup) curved section of the tire. The side of the tire being shorter than the center of the tire so the tire shape is part of the steering.
Wait so do you keep countersteering through the curve / corner or do you only initiate the lean with countersteering
LEGITX Bacon
Continue counter steering throughout the bend.
Softail Fun thank you
LEGITX Bacon
Ride safe man.
Am I missing something? It looks as tho if you push towards your left your bike leans left and goes left. If you push to the right, your bike leans right and goes right. What part is 'counter' about that?
What kind of gloves are those? Are they comfortable?
Which motorcycle is this?
I was told by a few riders I work with to "never pull the bars when turning, even at low speeds." Their reasoning was that newer riders (which I will be, plan on buying a bike very, very soon) tend to pull too hard and end up lowsiding.
What's your thoughts? I like to gather as many opinions as I can before I get out and really start riding myself.
Do whatever comes naturally. Depends on your physical size and your arm length and the bike and all sorts of variables. On my rocket I tended to push... on my two "standard" bikes I tended to pull.
i just use my weight to push where i want to go smoothly.
Just ride without thinking about pushing or pulling in turns. Turning happens naturally.
You probably ought to ignore the guys that you work with and get some real rider training. Take a MSF basic rider course or even better yet is the basic Total Control rider training course if one is scheduled close enough to get to conveniently.
i didint even knew what countersteering was and the guys were laughing at me lol...they said:you know what you do when you lean in the curve. my only answer was, i dont know it does it all alone lol.
I always thought about it as you countersteer to make the bike fall to initiate the turn and fight the gyro effect, never really though about it you just do it.
Clear as mud. I know I do it but I never think about it and I’m nervous to try it intentionally for fear of highsiding
Excellent video. I've heard some strange things said about counter-steering, like: "oh you only have to do it on motorcycles, not bicycles" ! And I'm like, WTF?
So, when you're at a higher speed you have a gyro effect where the bike wants to stay upright and keep moving forward. you can turn the handlebars and think they're not turning but they will be turning you just do not notice because the bike will seem like the handlebars did not move. You have to remember you are inside a gyro effect. It will make sense once you experience it.
Excellent video, thanks. But please allow me to say, the correct term is counter intuitive in this case.
What speeds does counter steering begin
Zero speed.
Got it! Thanks! I've been doing it with my scooter. Didn't just know i was doing it. 😅🤣
Those gloves are 20$ for a set of 3 in Costco. " IN THE GARDENING DEPARTMENT " :))))))
@@jonathanmarvens Are you saying that deerskin gloves offer no protection because that's what they are. Lots of people ride with deerskin gloves.
@@charlesbelville5090 I use Snow Mobile Gloves always ! They get a little warm but peace of mind is everything on a bike !! LMAO !!
What bike is it? It looks a nice bike.
We learned that on bicycles and Honda Cubs.
This helped me out allot
push right go right, push left go left
what bike is that
So really, you just counter steer a MINUTE amount to initiate the lean in the desired direction, then follow it by THEN turning the bars in THAT direction. But it's all very minimal, especially at speed?
No you don't " then follow it by THEN turning the bars in THAT direction". Bike does that for you.
If you turn handle bars into a turn, the bike will sturn another direction.
Space Bear:
So so so so wrong! You clown!
@@softailfun thanks for the redundant reply 10 months after the fact. Calling someone that (at the time) had never ridden a motorcycle a clown is helpful too. Hope you feel superior. 👍
@@spacebear49
Shouldn’t have really been giving advise then should you. Kinda serious shit steering a bike you know. Maybe take the comment down, you’ll look less of a clown. Just saying!
@@softailfun you might notice that my comment ended with a "?"... this makes it a question. Which 2 other people answered months ago. If you don't understand that, then maybe don't throw the word clown around so freely. Unless you want to discuss the definition of "irony"... have a good day.
What use camera ?
I actually for a long time have known that I do this on my bicycle. I have a cruiser with ape hangers, and I always see super bike races where these guys are cornering and dragging their knee and it looks like they are constantly turning in the opposite direction... then when I'm turning at a high rate of speed I see myself slightly doing this too.. Now I know why.
To counter steer, you can push right to lean and turn right or pull left to lean and turn right. Both are counter steering. I prefer to pull except when braking. With that said I am concerned how this is taught to new riders. I tell them that how to turn a motorcycle you lean it. Your brain naturally learns very quickly that counter steer leans the bike so there is no need to complicate it. It’s safer for the rider to think of leaning as the mans of turning and not steering as you lean in the direction you want to turn. If you want to turn sharper lean more. I believe it’s dangerous especially for new riders to focus on steering in the opposite direction they intend to turn. This is especially true in an emergency situation where it is likely the rider in a panic may steer in the intended direction of travel. The way I explain it is this. How do you turn a motorcycle? You lean it. How do you lean a motorcycle? You counter steer. Understand counter steering and then put it out of mind and focus on leaning as the means to turning a motorcycle.
Chris Taylor
Push left, go left.... Push right, go right. If you're telling them to lean without discussing counter steering....... Well that's just dumb! No counter steering, no lean!
People simply over theorizing this thing. To turn right, you turn the bar to right. But the centrifuge will forces you to the left. Therefore, you lean your body to the right. The faster your speed, the less you turn and the more you lean.
What a load of bollocks!!!!! Over theorising!!! Your explanation is ridiculous!!😂😂😂
Figured this out yet or living in a ditch somewhere?😂
This cleared up a lot for me.
I understand thank you
Hey Sean, what model Honda is that? I am kind of liking the digital speedometer.
Peter G vtx1800r
Joel Freedman vtx 1800f*
Way over analyzing it. Look right push right go right. Look left push left go left. That’s it been riding for a week. It’s stupid simple.
I actually thought that this was counter steering but I think that this is just push steering. I saw a physics video on here showing counter steering and it's pointing the wheel in the opposite direction of the turn while leaning and then readjusting the wheel to go with the turn at the same time as the lean
Counter steering = push steering. Same thing. The cartoon video you refer to is probably the worst video on RUclips for explaining this topic! The rider never steers into a bend when counter steering. He/she maintains a forward pressure on the inside grip for the duration of the bend.
I can't figure out if you're pushing outward or down
Outward
Gordon Graham remember this saying. “ push left go left push right go right”
No dashboard?
Mind blown.
Great video thanks
A little confusing; could've just said, "Push left, turn left; Push right, turn right" & been done with it.... ha.
Funny thing is i just got a dirt bike and couldnt figure out why it my turning was so slow this makes sense
Anyone who's ever successfully ridden a bike has counter steered without knowing it this while making sense to me made me over think it when I did my riding course a few years ago
everyone who thought they knew how to ride a motorcycle because they could ride a bicycle when they were a kid
dies at the first sweeping 70mph curve they come to
because they try to steer like a car, or they try to turn by shifting their body weight on the seat
and the bike goes the opposite direction of where the road is
they are not here to watch this video.... they are dead
How fast I gotta got to practice this
Damn Sean.. i tried this before, but just cant get it. just doesnt stick.
If you've ever ridden a bicycle, you are already doing it. Don't overthink it. Look at it this way...when you turn a corner at very low speed on a bike, you turn to the direction you want to go because you are using the top center of your tire. At a higher speed, you would turn right but can only use more of the right side wall of the tire and not the top center because you have to lean to turn, and the only way you can lean on the right side wall is to push the handle bars slightly left then lean and presto. Think about it..if you yanked your handle bars at high speed right or left, you will be bucked off and crash. Does it make sense??
Gotcha. ill definitely look into it next time i ride. Dont know why it just seems impossible. lol guess its how its explained. thanks for taking the time to explain a little more. greatly appreciated.
Cheers Rene - keep enjoying the SRK videos!
That's why you need to practice until it's completely intuitive. Push the right grip forward to go right, push the left grip forward to go left. The more pressure on the grip, the quicker the lean.
To countersteer don't you push forward instead of pressing down?
Yes, push right to go right.
So it’s kind of a push and lean.
Bruce Courtney
Push to make the bike lean and lean with the bike. The bike will not lean because you are leaning.
I get what you are saying!! Finally!! I was reading too much into it. And earlier I was thinking “I rode the hell out of bicycles when I was a kid so I had to have done this!!?” 😂. Now after listening to you, I finally just get it. Thank u so much man.
Looks like to me your pulling right to turn right and vise versa
Cool video
I always got confused and thrown off with this, helped me understand it, it’s not something you think about, just happens I guess.
Gyroscopic precession. Pilot knowledge. And apparently now motorcyclists.
It's easy, but the name is overkill.
Shawn, You are such a nerd lol I love it!!
ive always just done it, so someone explaining it is kinda strange
You ah, you are steering by pushing the steering handlebar left or right from the center point of the handlebar. So for me and for any newbies, should be enough. What you people's are doing is by making it more difficult. Plain and simple is steering the handlebar left or right and entering the corner, simple by leaning you body in the direction your entering.
Erm….. no
You lean with the bike, the bike doesn’t lean because you’ve moved. Push left grip forward, turn left. Push right grip forward, turn right.
Happy New Year's! A video on how to candle the twisties would be highly appreciated ☺
Riding style is the big issue with counter steering. On a sport bike counter steering happens more naturally because the rider is leaning forward with a fair amount of weight pushing on the grips. On a cruiser the rider is in many cases leaning back and pulling on the grips requiring the rider to shift their weight a little to be able to push on the grip for the desired reaction. So yea, pro's and cons of riding styles
I'm never gonna figure this out coach.
What model Honda
Joel Freedman Vtx 1300
I still don't get it.
I think people are getting confused because you call it counter steering but you are not steering...you are leaning
jiglei89
Yes, and you are leaning the bike by counter steering. The rider leans with the bike, the bike doesn't lean because the rider shifts his weight a little. Leaning by the rider achieves nothing.
if you find yourself a bit to fast going into a turn instead of hitting the brakes and losing it counter stear which will lean the bike over farther and now you can add throttle. be safe guys
Happy New Year guys and for another thing living by the seat of your pants most of the time will make you break out in a case of road rash and speaking for myself I don't like road rash Road Rash hurts LOL haha be safe keep that rubber side down till next time
Now i understand.
So this is just a thing that everyone already does, and this only applies when you are going over a certain speed, right? So when you're going quite slowly, rolling around a parking lot or whatever, it's the exact opposite - you push on the right grip to go left instead of to go right. So how does your brain know the exact speed at which you have to switch from regular steering to counter steering? What happens if you're at exactly that speed in the middle where you are supposed to switch and you need to make a turn? Is your brain really that accurate of a gauge of speed?
This whole thing just seems bizarre to me. I don't understand it at all.
ruclips.net/video/lzk8oyNO708/видео.html