Imagine if writing worked like that in real life, and whenever a writer is criticized they become to the immune to commiting the same writing "mistake" whether it be valid or invalid.
I have been complaining about the lack of aged up Gotenks till he finally happened in the last known chapter of super and still didn't cuz it was fat Gotenks
If there’s one thing I liked about SSJ4 Gogeta, it’s just how much “Sun Wukong” vibes he gives off. His little laugh, his playful nature, I can’t say it’s intentional, but I’ve always found that aspect to be fun considering how the series routes started as an inspiration to “Journey to the West”.
Honestly, one massive issue of this arc's whole premise is... there aren't really enough memorable or notable wishes to base dragons on. Shenron was essentially a plot device to fix consequences of each arc and nothing more. There were little to no moment, where someone actually gets to wish for what they truly desire. Like imagine if at one point Goku makes a wish to see his grandpa again and it's precisely that wish that gets turned into a dragon that's good. Bonus points if the dragon also fights like grandpa Gohan and wears a mask, which is what makes Goku realise it's true nature. But this type of writing requires a long term planning and a very careful and subtle setup, something Dragonball isn't exactly known for.
Definitely wasn’t in Toriyama’s wheelhouse. Yeah it’s not really interesting for the dragons to talk about the wish that created them. “I brought that Indian guy back to life” “I brought chaotzu back”… nobody cares about chaotzu, or the wish that brought him back.
1. Panties 2. Reviving Bora 3. Reviving those killed by Piccolo 4. Piccolo’s wish for eternal youth 5. Reviving Goku 6. Reviving the Namekians 7. Removing the bomb from the androids. Those all felt impactful to the show. After that the wishes just felt generic
I mean I wouldn't blame the og series. Tori didn't want to do that wit the story & he wouldn't have come up wit a concept like this. It's on the GT writers to make it work & in many areas it jus didn't but they also could've jus as easily not done this type of story
Silly GT fans. The reason the dragon made from the wish to resurrect Vegetas victims is a mole is because Goku buried Vegeta on Namek after he died, and when he was brought back to life he crawled out of the dirt Goku buried him under! Obviosuly. (This is a joke fyi)
well hes not even the mole though right so if you were gonna have a post hoc explanation wouldnt it make more sense to point out that he steals peoples power to make himself stronger for evil by sort of possessing them. thats kind of like a mishmash of vegeta babidi and buu together but at least thats a connection to the actual people right
Finally, someone noticed how Uub was screwed by the show. To think I had great anticipation for him when I first watched GT... Fucking hell. I felt like Dragon Ball was outright bullying me.
But what exactly are you supposed to do with Uub? He's completely and utterly bland and brings nothing to the table. 99% of his "potential" fans keep talking about boils down to "he's just so stwong!". I hate Uub. Buu on his own is so much more interesting.
@@kindlingking Uub is only bland and brings nothing to the table because he's handled by writers that never want to let him bring anything to the table. Any character concept can be potentially good but end up utterly wasted by poor execution.
@kindlingking So you blame the character and not the writers? Toriyama set Uub up for the next generation, and yet the writers in GT said, "Nah, let's ditched the guy and make Goku a kid again to relate for younger audience." The nerve of you.
This is a phenomenon I've seen in other places too. Fans who end up disappointed with something and want to read meaning into it so badly they latch onto whatever scraps they can. Like when Mass Effect 3 first launched, people disappointed with the ending would often latch onto the 'indoctrination theory' despite it not really holding up when examined. Because it was just plausible enough to latch onto on a surface level and was more interesting than the actual ending.
Reminds me of Sherlock. The last season only had 3 episodes, and they were really bad. Fans thought the 3 episodes were a fake out ending and that there would be an episode 4 to fix everything. Look it up it's kinda crazy how much they thought it would come out.
@@iananderson4754 Thank you I knew there was another example of this I was trying to remember but couldn't quite get there. I never watched Sherlock but I've heard about this one before.
Gogeta (gt). THE ONLY fusion carried by the games because he doesn't do anything noteworthy beyond the first minute, displaying his overwhelming speed.
I mean he does more than he did in his previous appearance in Z (where all he does is show up and be a bag of nothing for 2 minutes), and future appearance in DBS (where he doesn’t do much of anything but fight Broli).
@rhysbrockfenton in both of those situations, they both overpower the main antagonist until one is either dead or beaten and unable to fight (Broly just barely being saved from being annihilated). Gogeta in gt plays around until the fusion runs out, which results in Omega later almost destroying the earth.
4:26 I commented on that last video that it would be a better idea if the 3 Star Dragon was from the Puccolo wish but I knew it wasn’t said in the show, I just thought it’d make more sense since 4 Star Dragon is his brother
Fusions aren't allowed to be the solution to the problem, because once you can establish them as solutions to the issue, then the issue isn't as scary and, thus, removes the tension. In the case of Vegito, it makes sense why he isn't allowed to win: He wants to save his family. In the case of Gogeta, it makes sense why he is the solution: Vegeta is going to be put into the Soul Scrubber and reincarnate. Wukong here has no reason to hold back. Why not give us something interesting, for once? The heroes do their trump card and it comes around that Kong here is actually SO outclassed, he is barely holding out the fight. Thus, when he says "Let's end this charade", he defuses and THEN we have a climax: How do we even deal with a villain not even pure raw power can overcome? Of course, we all know what's happening behind scenes, so the writes probably don't care enough to even give us a proper fight with some tension, they just wanna wrap this up.
"When the writing's not there, fans will fill in the blanks," is a FANTASTIC way of summing it up, and it's something I've seen over and over in all kinds of fandoms. Often a piece of fanon becomes SO prolific that like you said, people assume it's true and use it to "correct" you if you're critical of something. And on occasion, especially as fans grow up and actually join the creative team of these properties, fanon actually DOES become canon. But as fun as fanon is, I do agree it shouldn't be used as a bludgeon to explain away *other* fans' criticisms with the source material.
I must say, as I was writing this, I had your voice in the back of my head saying, "I certainly don't want to tell anyone they're having fun wrong!" I admit I can't even remember what video that's from, but I think about it a lot and tried to hit a similar tone here while still being honest with my own feelings. I certainly don't begrudge anyone, especially children, for filling in those gaps. When you're a kid, the entire world doesn't make sense, so you're very much used to having to figure out explanations for everything. Or, as I literally just heard you say right before I sat down to write this reply, "Kids are really good at making things make sense that don't make sense."
Dragonball I think is the worst offender of this case and I see it most often on the powerscaling side. Unlike a lot of other media, Dragonball typically does not give hard numbers, proper scale or approximations of what their characters can do or are doing at any given moment. This has caused fans to make their own assertions and because many of these people watch only the English dub where liberties with the script are taken, this is all the more amplified. For example, characters are often commented on being really fast to the point where onlookers often always exclaim "wow, he moved so fast I can't see him". But then you have, say, the Ocean/early Funi dub saying "that guy must have moved at the speed of light!" Even though in the original context, neither that term, nor any adjacent phrase or word was used. Then they get confused/upset when a proper lightspeed character _is_ introduced, expressed in such in the original context and suddenly, everyone they thought was that fast suddenly isn't against this guy
Glad you tackled the wish theory. Was never really sure on where it originated, but given that neither the original Japanese dub of the show or the show’s official guide doesn’t do much to indicate it, whatever the source would be would’ve deduced it via speculation. It does show just how much potential there is to the Shadow Dragons. How many possibilities in connections and themes they could have. The complex moral dilemma you’ve been yearning for throughout this arc. No other characters in Dragon Ball seem to be given this much of reluctant intrigue. Truly fascinating.
As nice as it is to learn where it came from I tried not to have a laughing fit, the Wiki continues being the #1 source of Dragon Ball misinformation above the Funi dub and Viz translations
@ I still use it as reference for when I need information on stuff, but I also make sure I don’t take it at immediate face value. Not all information on there is made up and from my recent experiences, they have gotten better at including sources and pointing out when something is dub only. Still, it helps to double check on other sources for information.
@@sumeracarnatia6997 Oh, it's one of those wikis that are doing an effort to improve their quality, add sources and remove all headcanons that went unnoticed? Proud of them! I actually did not expect the DB wiki to be among those
12:59 I literally made a video on this, the English dub actually changed this line to Goku being amused that their sons were fighting together… WTF Here's the vid: ruclips.net/video/iAFHm2-qPTw/видео.htmlsi=cM_S41LVJmTdyOuy
The only redeeming quality about SS4 Gogeta is that he looks really cool. Everything else about him is a dumb, annoying waste of time. This only exists just to gaslight us into thinking Vegeta actually matters in this show, just like his SS4 transformation.
@Jose-se9pu Fans also demanded SS4 Gohan, where is he? Hell, adult Gotenks was so demanded by the fandom back then they literally adressed him and still had him no show up. This is not an excuse. Really, it's extremely stupid to argue "they did what fans wanted" when talking about something not being important. You know it could have been *both ways*, right? They could have given us SS4 Vegeta and Gogeta and actually have them doing shit this arc. They are not mutually exclusive concepts at all.
These GT characters get carried hard by their design and their appearances in the video games. Guys like Baby and the Four Star Dragon are so much cooler when all you have is an interesting design and a vague notion of their backstory.
Honestly, my own theory about the theorists? The American fandom loves to put Z, GT, and the original DB television series up on a pedestal, especially those who grew up with the dubs of those shows on Toonami in the 2000s. Oftentimes, the older fans love to excuse every bad writing decision those three series make, including those related to GT, choosing to instead focus on things like “The Shadow Dragons were great in concept! Look at this great idea the show had! Hey, look at Gogeta! He was the strongest character in Dragon Ball till Battle of Gods!” I’ve even seen one RUclipsr-a guy who’s making an “Evil Goku and Chichi” game at the moment-call these three shows “the original trilogy” and say that things like Daima are good compared to garbage like Super, but don’t measure up to the “original trilogy”. It’s no surprise to me that fans do the writing for the writers, because they likely haven’t truly seen the shows outside of RUclips clip form since before they were old enough to form mature critical thoughts on it. Therefore, it was good when they were kids, so it has to be the greatest thing ever! Who cares about the Black Star Dragon Balls episodes? FUNimation didn’t even bother dubbing them in the original run of the show over here, so they must be insufferable trash that clearly isn’t as interesting as edgy action cartoon wars! Not to mention the Dragon Ball fandom wiki is largely influenced by dub fans. I mean, its designations of characters have an “anime name” and “manga name” section in the character statistic sheet, with the “anime name” as the primary. Uh, no, the characters don’t have differing names between mediums; VIZ just translates the names way better than Crunchyroll or FUNimation nearly every time, or makes them up as they see fit.
While I was not part of the fandom back in the day, but the Netlore is that 100 years later Goku was hyped up as the strongest character in the dragonball franchise. It was the "what if goku was imprisoned in the hyperbolic time chamber" meme of the time. Especially due to the cool factor that he would appear and disappear like a ghost was also added some mysticism to 100 years later Goku. Also the Evil Goku guy has some very hot takes and I'm pretty sure he is just trolling his audience alot of the time.
@@diegodankquixote-wry3242 Mr. Evil Goku has the same problem as Th3Birdman in my opinion. He does a poor job of distinguishing between his trolling and his actual criticism, which leads me to believe it’s the latter thinly veiled as the former to grab people’s attention.
SSJ4 Gogeta is probably the number 1 case of his portrayel being carried more by how cool he looks in Video Games then the Show itself. On one hand, him being an overconfident trickster could be calling back to the Sun Wukong inspiration for the SSJ4 Design, which is neat but the fact that he dissapears for the rest of the arc or doesnt do anything significant in the grand scheme of the show like say weaken One Star to the point the heroes stood more of a chance or something. Feels like a wasted oppurtunity.
I don't think I even remembered SSJ4 Gogeta existed until he got announced as the last character for FighterZ. But I had the luxury of GT not being the last original piece of Dragon Ball content I'd see for the next 15 years. That puts into perspective how much his popularity is a result of specific circumstances.
While we're not at it, I'm just gonna come out and say my piece, this is the reason why I cannot vibe with the ending of GT when taking the series as a hole. To get to the ending in even the last half, you just feel everybody throwing the scripts into the air shouting "Who cares?!", one animator has just shoved a genga into their mouth and started munching because they're thinking "We're gonna be out of a job soon.". This series goes into maximum overdrive with being both too fast and too slow. It is somehow the most rushed and slapdash point of GT and also one of the most meandering. It doesn't help that this is the such a diet DBZ. Hell, it's not even diet DBZ. It has no caffeine, no energy and there's friggin' melatonin at the bottom. This is DBZ if you asked somebody who vaguely remembered the series but HATED every aspect of what they saw to construct what they think the quintessential formula is. This is why no matter what? I genuinely feel GT is the WORST part of Dragon Ball. Minus? The RF Saga of Super? Frankly, drops of gold compared to GT because aside from me liking what the fans don't more often than not (the RF Saga being an exception.)? Nothing so far leaves me this frustrated, this genuinely angry and bored at the same time.
The scene after Gogeta pranks the One Star Dragon where he is laughing his ass off amuses me because you can hear both Goku and Vegeta laughing together. Hearing Vegeta's actor laugh as his character in a really goofy fashion is just something you rarely if ever get to witness.
The way Uub is just used as villain fodder always disappointed me. The end of the original series sets him up as the true protege of Goku, but the payoff to that idea is so weak it's like Toei was intentionally sabotaging any good ideas for GT. You'd think that being raised and personally trained by the single best warrior in the universe would've brought better results.
Gogeta goofing around with the One-Star Dragon is one of the worst moments of GT. Gotenks doesn't take fights seriously, because he is made out of two kids. Vegito toyed around with Buu, because he didn't actually want to defeat him at that moment. There's no reason for Gogeta not to finish the fight as quickly as possible. Even if you want to say that Goku being a kid gives Gogeta a slightly more childish personality (which is dubious, since they fused as Super Saiyan fours, when Goku is turned back to an adult), the Vegeta-side should balance that out.
@Jose-se9pu Goku fused as an adult and the other half of the fusion is a very serious guy, who always one-shotted people he wanted dead, whenever possible.
@Jose-se9pu Did...Did you seriously not even read the comment you reply to? They literally already adressed that. And Goku didn’t regress mentally to a kid anyways. I swear GT fanboys genuinely don't even read. We are not overcoming the allegations.
I feel like the writers tried to justify it by having him purify the Power Ball to fix the miasma around the Earth, but that could've just disappeared automatically when the final dragon died and I doubt audiences would've batted an eye.
Gogeta is just there to be Fan Service and stall until their episode count quota. As much as Vegitto appearance in Super doesn't add much to the Zamazu fight, it makes much more sense that they try to use him, Zamazu has fused using Potara and they have 2 Kaioshin that can borrow earing to Goku and Vegeta. And by the limited time that he has, he doesn't he doesn't throw a fight in the bag for nothing by goofing around, he gives all he has. Vs Gogeta that could and should have finished Ei Shenlong, whenever he wanted and just didn't because thet need to fill the episode numbers
@Jose-se9pu meh, this retcon never bothered me, Toriama would never really commit to the fact that Potara fusion would be permanent anyway. The fact it was permanent was there for some flimsy stakes.
@hamburgermafia123 Even ignoring Heroes stopped doing crazy shit way too many years ago (SS3 Nappa and Raditz were the true last ones, with everything since then being stupidly tied to the actual story), it has been over for months now. Your joke is so outdated is concerning.
I hate this because there is no way they wouldn't be able to at least fucking distract Omega. No, GT, we are not buying it. There is no Gotenks because you didn't bother with an adult design, that's it. Don't give us this shitty excuse twice.
@@gokunenn4243 I was talking about the game, which is still ongoing and keeps giving us such bangers as golden great ape gogeta, baby janemba and super 17 absorbing almost every single android. I wasnt shitting on heroes, I enjoy most of their crazy stuff.
You know, if you cut the Gogeta part entirely and just had Goku's Spirit Bomb radiate enough plus energy to fix the Earth, it'd probably have worked better as an ending. Because the Gogeta stuff doesn't accomplish too much of anything aside from that. Four Star comes back just to die again in the same fight and get absorbed again. Also, I feel like the writers forgot that there's a cooldown before you can fuse again. As a small aside, the Big Bang Kamehameha looks pretty underwhelming as a "Kamehameha", though the versions from the video games never really manage to capture the Big Bang part too well either.
Fusions in general are really unnecessary in stories no matter the series they only work in movies. As for Fusion Cool down, it wouldn't had worked anyway considering how weak Goku was as the show had displayed.
I say Gogeta just like Si's return and the dragon fist are all intentional red herrings as toei tries to recreate the power up tennis matches Toriyama used so often (the whole Freezer fight, endless Island adventure, random bullshit go against all flavors of Boo)
It really doesn't look like either attack, but I like how the Big Bang Kamehameha is a pulse of energy in GT rather than a beam like the video games. If they'd showed it slowly disintegrating Yi Shen Long's body or something it would probably have sold it better.
@@rin4425 Well, yes, Goku's ki running out would prevent fusion, but the time limit is more of an immediate problem that would have prevented fusion. To use a different analogy, this is basically Goku complaining that he doesn't have enough money to buy what he wants from the store when the store is closed for the day.
SSJ4 Gogeta seems like the best part of GT on paper, but really all he does is mess around and drag out him fight with Omega Shenron. Basically trying to rehash the Vegito vs Buuhan when it feels more like Gotenks vs Super Buu.
Really, Gogeta felt like a liabity rather than a powerful asset. Instead of showcasing his overwhelming power through intense combat sequences or strategic maneuvers, the character occasionally indulges in light-heartedness that undermines the stakes involved in the fight. With the exclusion of Z Gogeta, the approach to Fusions in general lead to a sense of anticlimax when fans expect epic confrontations.
"I didn't want to ruin the flow of that episode by digging into the wishes. So I will ruin the flow of this episode by focusing heavily on fan theories about a wish"
@@craigpeoples9883 I mean.. he barely did anything there too other than be able to hold off and almost unalive Broly all while destroying the ice caps with him. just a glorified win button.
@@AnAverageGoblin Gogeta doesn't kill Broly, but he becomes so much of an indomitable force that the conflict ends as a result of his presence making Cheelai teleport Broly away. That at least counts for something, especially given that Broly was going to steamroll over everyone else relentlessly if they didn't fuse.
I wonder how much of the issues with wikia is a game of telephone. Fans speculating and then forgetting what they talked about was speculation, mutating into fact much like gossip and rumors. I think a similar issue was touched upon when fans assumed something was canon and then it turned out it was something TeamFourStar made up. As for the episode, GT is definitely running on fumes at this point. It's a shame. There's huge potential for the Shadow Dragons arc but it's clear the ideas the writers brainstormed didn't have the time to be refined. The staff has to meet a deadline to meet the weekly release of the show. Fantastic video Lance! Hope you have a wonderful holiday!
Also, I really enjoy that I kind of expected "can tough it out swallowing a Dragon Ball" would just be some kind of magic thing Goku could do, especially in Super Saiyan 4, but then he reacts like you actually would if you tried to do that. My guy almost chokes to death! Honestly, hilarious.
I'm surprised you haven't commented on how much this show loves to use the Megaman/Rockman X charge shot sound effect yet, SSJ4 Gogeta uses it during his prank Kamehameha in this episode. I know it doesn't add anything to the show just thought it'd be something you'd joke about.
It's honestly one of those things I keep telling myself I'll bring up, ever since I covered movie 9 (which is the first time I remember noticing it). I just never end up doing it. I'm glad somebody else has noticed!
Good video dissection Mistare Fusion. Your thoughts on the Shenrons was interesting as well as the take on SSJ4 Gogeta. Truthfully, I also don't quite like his characterization being him toying around, but I chalk it up to him being immensely strong, a potential reconnection to Sun Wukong and/or the "positive/negative" ki argument. But, it is what it is. Your dissection brought things to the forefront and was nice to hear. I personally think the show could've done better but they tried what they could in the moment. Just needed more time and guidance really from the jump before Episode 1. Still love Uub as a character even if he's not interesting to some, he will always be my favorite! Anywho, can't wait for the GT finale! Keep up the good work!
Great video as always Lance! I really like that you spent the first twelve minutes of the video not talking about Gogeta lol But in all seriousness, I’m glad you addressed the dragons & the wishes & how the reasons for their existence & actions seemed to be written more by the fans because I do feel that is the case with a lot of Dragonball in general (a notable example being people trying to explain how Gohan & 16 have a connection to justify the SSj2 transformation). I also really love you ripping into how stupid & useless Gohan & Oob were in the section of the story, but this shows one of my biggest frustrations with not just this series, but the franchise as a whole & it ties into fans of this series writing their own head canons. Akira Toriyama did not plan Dragonball out from beginning to end. Heck, he famously was going to end after the first arc, but decided to continue with a tournament arc. He never really planned anything through, & frequently forgot about stuff he wrote almost immediately after he had written it down. In one of your videos for the Piccolo arc, you once said that Toriyama was often very lazy & uncreative when it came to his characters, & said that a lot of them had little to no personality, only did one thing & then languished in obscurity & that is exactly the case. Because Toriyama always wrote by the seat of his pants, he never bothered to really develop any of the characters in the series other than Goku(with Piccolo, Vegeta, Mr. Satan being minor exceptions), so nearly all of them end up becoming useless dead air by the Cell arc, let alone GT. This also resulted in a lot of characters being completely redundant. The whole reason Puar & Chaotzu even existed was to contrast Oolong & Krillin but never did anything else beyond their introductions. There’s a good reason for your “nobody cares about Chaotzu” joke! This is why the ending to GT infuriates me so much. It was bad enough that in the Buu arc Toriyama immediately gave up on Gohan & Goten being the protagonists in favour of Goku again, but at the end of that arc, Toriyama also introduces two new kid characters in Pan & Oob. The fact that Goku leaves to train with Oob rather than Pan always felt a slap in the face not only to her but to all of the characters in the series, & again as you pointed out in your videos, having those two characters is absurdly redundant. Why not get rid of Oob in favour of Pan(aside from the obvious sexism)? The fact that by the end of GT, both her & Oob are complete dead weight really hits home the idea that nobody other than Goku ever mattered in this franchise. GT’s problem is that instead of doing something & correcting Toriyama’s mistakes, they just double down on the nostalgia & fanservice & essentially make Goku the most important guy in the universe, with nobody other than Vegeta mattering, & even Vegeta in the end is just a glorified back up dancer. Super had this problem as well, though I did quite enjoy the recent film, for daring to actually focus on other characters, even if it did in the end fall back on the tired predictable power up transformations. Anyways, sorry for this long rambling comment, just wanted to get that off my chest. Can’t wait to see next week’s video!
This show definitely exists in the "Toei Dragon Ball" space, where all the movies and anime-original mini-arcs happened and can be called back to, and just don't think about how any of it fits into the show's timeline. It just happened, like...back then...at that time...a while ago...y'know...
and this is why I will never understand the popularity of Fusion in DB. Its the same two kinds of jokes, and they always play out in the exact same way. feels like something early DB would have mocked using a gag character with the punchline of "too much hassle not worth the payoff just train more lmao" all it does is just make an incredibly boring amalgamation of two other characters who is so strong they win the fight while completely trivializing the plot at that point. its like that Chekov's gun thing for writing and it barely gets held back by "Vegeta is too prideful to be silly or work with others" which they conveniently get to throw away when they need to shove Fusion in after they write their butts into corner. imo Fusion is just an adrenaline shot for when they make a plot too boring because the prospect of it happening seems to make people happy.
In this episode, Gogeta invents Reverse Cursed Technique Splitting into 5 and doing the party popper trick and then doubling over from his own goof is some real Monkey King behavior.
Seems pretty clear to me that this arc needed a singular focus with the Dragons. Having just one made by the abuse of the Dragon Balls would have been perfectly fine. The biggest criticism of the Dragon Balls in the story is the avoidance of consequences, and having a dragon made from that avoidance would make more sense than the individual wish nonsense
I noticed that the only wishes that were never used to create a dragon were the wishes made after Shenlong was rescued by Kami and Dende. I think that might have to do with Shenlong was brought back to life like the Gods were directly involved.
He's the Gohan of GT as well Built up with the idea that he was a successor, only to be one of the strongest people but still doesn't do crap, and then he just ends up being a hype machine for the real main characters.
6:05 It's odd the DBwiki will use Funi dub names as it's main terms, then keep the sub names as aliases, but choose to ignore every other dub that give DB characters different names, San Xing Long is known as San Shenron in the Blue Water Dub of GT wheres the listing for that, especially since theres a page for it on the site.
Uub was so completely and utterly wasted in not just this arc but GT as a whole, and he's supposed to be the reincarnation of Kid Buu on top of absorbing Fat Buu, along with being trained by Goku, but the writers did nothing with him but be used as fodder.
I remember how repetitive these last few episodes of GT are. It's like nothing happens, it feels mind numbing. I was a kid when I first watched it and even then I was bored.
I really do wonder about SS4 Gogeta's design. Did they go with the red hair and brown fur just as a stylistic choice? Either way, it does look great on him.
If I'm being perfectly honest here, you're going far too easy on the wiki. By making itself use the anime's original-run English dub as its canon as opposed to the Japanese manga, it propagates more misinformation than a thousand misguided fans on discussion boards. It's even gotten to the point where in other wiki-type compendia (TV Tropes, for example), folks have constructed awkward katakana back-formations for characters whose given names exist only in the American English dub, like "Jimmy Firecracker"! I wouldn't be so incensed at this except for the fact that a wikia is one of the first places people go when they're confused about the lore of a new property. For the wiki to shovel this much garbage and call it canon is just plain sloppy. As a side note, knowing you're a RedLetterMedia fan, was 19:30 a nod to Rich Evans?
It's also the same wiki that tries to validate dumb concepts across the fantasy like "Super Saiyan Power" by claiming it has happened in the Super manga because of coloring errors.
You know this, torn out city is kinda boring setting for the final fight, especially since half the Evil Dragon fights have taken place in cities. Compare this to the last fight in Z where the last fight takes place on Shin's planet, which is a beautiful and unique place.
Just asking out of curiosity since you mentioned you watch the show with the original Japanese dub. Can you actually speak and understand Japanese or do you rely on subtitles? If yes, how did you learn it?
"The power required for the wish is what dictates the dragon's strength." . . . Then why is the woman who was made from a single pair of panties made by a non combatant so strong?
Well, Pilaf was in the middle of asking for world domination. Based on the Japanese, maybe Shenlong misconstrued it as asking for the Earth's pair of panties, and it was just a whole ordeal making that happen.
Even when I watch your Dissection series, I still get thr same feeling from when I watched GT and this fight started boring me: "How the hell did we get here again?"
I actually have the phrase "this is Dragon Ball Dissection not Dragon Ball Plot Synopsis" quite present while watching this that I didn't realize that it was a few years since it was actually said. Damn. Hard to believe it has already been 7 years since I've discovered DBD...
This is a personal gripe that might be nitpicking but ive never ever liked the idea Gogetas plan. I feel like him planning on Omega using one very specific attack that he was never hinted at showing before only for him to just put a little bit of his own "positive" energy into the blast felt very contrived. Like they even show that sinply "making" a spirit bomb can dispel the negative energy so could Gogeta have just nuked Omega and then have just cleaned up the negative energy? I dont know maybe im over thinking it 😊
3:39 makes me think about how they literally could have used the dragons going to locations/targeting wish makers and recipients as a way to further push the nostalgia factor of GT home. Would have made for a better story and could have allowed others to br involved in the plot.
To be fair, while it doesn't fit with how supposedly dire the situation is, I like how SSJ4 is basically Sun Wukong Monkey God, all playful and nonchalant. He makes a more memorable impression here than in either Fusion Reborn or Super Broly imo
I kinda hate how GT and Super made Gogeta act as arrogantly as any other fusion, what made Gogeta work in his first appearance was that he got straight to business, which is usually boring but works as a contrast to both other fusions and dragon ball in general (though this is probably less an intentional choice and more the movie running out of time to do anything else). It also has the side effect of ignoring why Vegetto originally engaged in the tomfoolery in the Buu arc.
Super Gogeta literally tries to end Broly the second he gets. Yes he doesn’t go straight into Blue and he smirks a bit but that’s something both Goku and Vegeta would do. You can also rationalize it by Gogeta not wanting to use more power than necessary in order to avoid needles destruction but the second Super Saiyan Gogeta starts losing ground he turns into Blue showing how seriously he really is.
@Powerman77775 he also wasted time trying to decide on a name and let Freeza escape, so it's tough to see him as having escapes from the trope of overconfident, carefree fusions for me.
This has always just been pute headcanon tho. We get nothing from Gogeta personality-wise the first time he appears against Janemba and there is no reason to assume he is any dofferent from Vegetto. Hell, what says Vegetto would not finish Janemba right away either? As you say yourself there is a reason for his attitude on the Buu arc. He is not Gotenks. So how is he different from Gogeta then? Hell, Super Gogeta was outright going to kill Broly. Him deciding on a name is not a personality change, because Z Gogeta already had a name decided. He didn't shut up about calling himself Gogeta-sama when he was Veku. There is nothing saying Z Gogeta would not have done the same when he is not directly on the battlefield. It's, again, pure headcanon that doesn't rven make any sense. "He is not Gotenks so he is different from the other fusions" or maybe Gotenks is the overly arrogant brat?
@gokunenn4243 the fact that he shows no personality is exactly what made him feel different. GT and Super Gogeta were faced with equally dire situations and still chose to express themselves as much as they could.
@@shahzebhasan9995 Overconfident and Carefree isn't a Fusion Trope its a Goku and Vegeta Trope or if you wanna get cynical it is a Saiyan Trope. Letting Frieza go is something Goku would do and has done numorous times. Vegeta is the poster child for Overconfident why should a fusion of the two not be expected to have these traits?
I will say the 3 Star Dragon being 4 Star’s twin would naturally lead people to believe the other wish to bring back everyone Daimao killed would be the one to create 3 Star. For me, I think that’s not a big leap to make and why I think the GT Perfect Files got that wrong. But I will say, I don’t use the amount of people revived to explain why One Star is the strongest. Instead I go to an often forgotten line where Elder Kaioshin says he told the Namekians to keep all their wishes related to their world and never use it on others or the damage would be catastrophic on a universal scale. Notable he’s the only wish that spans multiple different planets in the original series on Earth’s Dragon Ball’s anyways. One Star being the only Dragon to care about actually causing problems on a grander scale than just Earth really fits with that if you ask me. The rest of the stuff on the DB Wiki I have never even heard of before and yeah they were definitely reaching lmao
As much as I love Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta, GT was not the fusion’s finest. I can be honest, my enjoyment of him is purely for the cool factor. He was the strongest, he’s awesome in games, especially FighterZ, but as a part of GT’s story, he’s the epitome of fireworks. Granted, he did do that Plus Energy kick to cleanse the world from Minus Energy, but who’s to say that couldn’t have happened by Goku’s Spirit Bomb?
I never watched GT all the way through but every Dragon Ball video game before Super came out and even some after like Fighterz and Sparking Zero and even the fans to this day treat Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta like he is the pinnacle, the peak, the absolute best one can be, the strongest ever and a god of martial arts. That he is the result of years of experience everyone involved in the creation of Dragon Ball has in crafting battles for comics and animation. Now that I saw a little and watched this video... this guy? Really? This nothing ball? The first two tournaments offered way better fights like Muten Roshi vs Tenshinhan or later Goku vs Piccolo Daimao/Piccolo Junior. Goku vs Vegeta or Vegeta vs all of Freeza's henchmen are also highlights for me! Is it his magic, made up, not even mentioned power level number? Would he still be so popular if he was a low Red Ribbon henchmen of White's army that fight exactly the same like he does here but then gets easily defeated by Goku? Piccolo Daimao doesn't fighter better than Vegeta and he doesn't better than Freeza who doesn't fight better than Cell and so on. That's the point of battle power numbers. Toriyama had difficulty showing that the new dudes are super stronger and better and stuff so he attached stats to them. Good fighting is good fighting. Show Vegetto vs Boo and Goku vs Cell to someone who doesn't know Dragon Ball and he couldn't tell what is ''stronger''. Tao Pai Pai is my favourite Dragon Ball villain closely followed by Named era Vegeta and they don't become less and less my favourite each time something stronger is introduced. Super Saiyan God Goku vs Beerus was boring and lame as hell for me but is what meant to be the biggest and strongerest fight ever. Show me good, don't tell me it's good and make me care for the stakes and characters while you at it, Dragon Ball.
The big disadvantage of making Dragon Ball’s heroes strong enough to destroy planets. Fortunately Dragon Ball Super manages to include several moments of skill overcoming pure power, making it clear a good fighter isn’t synonymous with a good martial artist.
Dragonball fans feed on hype. Gogeta was the strongest for so long and was so powerful in videogames, he just became consolidated as some kind of hype peak
@@paperprince2953 Adult Goku gets a lot of this, too. I see people act as if he's the total badass who doesn't fuck around unlike stupid Super Goku, when actual GT Goku did shit like shoot Super 17 with a x10 Kamehameha while knowing he could absorb energy just to see if it would work.
Fans obsession with lore and filling in the gaps tends to result into that, and it's doubly funny when the source material has no interest in the lore or the gaps. Seems like you're finishing GT this December, so I gotta wonder if you're going to tackle the pre-Super films and TV specials, and perhaps even super itself?
Something I hope you touch on is, despite how popular the ending of GT is, it seems so dour and almost mean-spirited at the same time. Like if you really stop and think about this as the conclusion of the animated run (since GT was marketed as a sequel to Z), then Goku and the Dragon Balls are essentially gone forever, Piccolo is BANISHED to Hell with seemingly no second thought on Enma’s part to undo it, Blooma and the Son families are no-contact for generations, Majin Boo is gone forever to be absorbed by a much less interesting character, and #17 was brutally killed after wrecking havoc as a main antagonist. I don’t really care for Super’s (or Daima’s for that matter) insistence of cramming far too many things in an impossibly small chunk of time, ignoring Z’s own ending, but at least it ends (or continues I suppose) in a way that treats everyone as friends with room for character growth. The downside being that y’know, nothing has ever really ENDED since GT wrapped up. Edit: I want to be clear that yes, there IS a good amount of growth and change here (primarily from Goku and Vegeta). At the same time, it’s become quite clear over time why this ending (and entire show) was overridden. I respect the boldness and true finality of it, but I’m also not surprised why Super and Daima ran back to comfort and familiarity.
That’s why it’s so good (btw the headwriter of GT has stated that 17 did come back to life in the end. They even planned to show it but that scene was scrapped for time.
@@TragicKF I heard they also planned to give Gohan some spotlight but it looks it didn’t go through. Gt and its ending were good for what they were, but all these plans and how gt ended left more to be desired.
Imagine this being the last ever fight of dragon ball ever. Oh wait! It was for 20 years+. Also, have you talked about how Omega Shenron kinda sucks at using his powers. Why doesnt he eat away gokus powerlevel with haze shenrons power?
I'll say it because I need to vent this frustration every time im reminded of it. Even when I was a kid & this part of the show aired on Cartoon Network dubbed & it got to the part where Uub learned what the Fusion Dance was & wanted to fuse with someone, I questioned why at least Goten & Trunks didnt wanna fuse into adult Gotenks. It gets even worse when you take into account that the writers more than likely brought Gogeta into the fold for fanservice. Why not repeat the other thing Fusion Reborn did as well when Goten & Trunks felt their fathers' fused energy & decided to fuse themselves? It's so weird. Even if Gotenks couldn't beat 1-Star, he could've at least provided decent back-up for their dads. Such a wasted opportunity in a series full of tryhard fanservice to not do the most obvious bit of it. Hell, in Battle of Gods, they fuse into Gotenks to fight Beerus when he starts going all destroyer on them. Because that at least makes sense even if they ultimately didnt do jackshit.
16:32 If I may ask, where in the US are you from Lance? Every now and then you use an interesting accent and intonation. You articulation is always very clear which is not that common in English speakers in general.
I grew up mostly in the Deep South, but I do hope that's not what you're hearing! I'm assuming you're referring to whatever snarky voice I use for Oob in the moments just prior to the timestamp? I don't know if that's really meant to evoke any specific regional area. It just seemed like an appropriate character voice for that particular moment.
Im sad because we're gonna get alot of people who love GT and really don't like you try and say you're policing how fans interact with the show when what you're doing is saying "theories are not facts, stop acting like these are facts stated in the show" because I remember hearing people say that bit about Eis saying he was made from the wish for king piccolo alot
I guess Gojo from Jujutsu Kaisen is basically Gogeta considering how they are hyped as the strongest character but the writer removed him because he is not the protagonist
14:46 Dear God, it's tiring already? Oof, I can't even imagine how you feel about Fusion in Modern Dragon Ball then. It's practically everywhere after the Universe 6 tournament.
Love all the gifs in this video. You know I feel like the two episodes you covered really should be the other way around. Why spend an entire episode hyping up fusion again after we just saw it? That way Gohan wouldn't have to be made into an idiot and they could just skip to Goku reverting back to his base form. It also would have made the development with the ball he ate line up far better. Instead of it being forgotten for an entire episode. Structure GT structure. Even here fusion is just a waste of time. Goku and Vegeta power up more than enough to defeat the enemy only to get dragon balled. Super runs that into the ground even with the "permanent" fusion. Being a early adaptor is like being a time traveler.
The hairstyle makes ot less cool than Goku for me, but colour-wise he is easily the best. He is the only one who keeps a colored brightly hair and brown fur, which given the concept of SS4 you would think would be in everyone. It never made sense tho. It looks awesome, but why Black amd brown hair make reddish Orange? Even back in school there were theories that Gogeta's base hair was that color but we didn’t know because we never saw it, because otherwise where did it come from?
I actually dislike Gogeta's personality here because it's how they acted when they fought Buuhan. But that was a fake personality. That was just a ruse to piss Buu off to goad him into absorbing them. Why are they making him act like that because Vegito did when that was never Vegito's real personality?
wasnt he just goading one star into using all his evil spooky dark minus energy so he could do the sky thing i thought it was straight up just vegito but again
@@Estra_Estra That's an ass-pull to say he could've thought of that. I recall Goku even saying the fusion got the worst aspects of their personalities.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
It's fine, Lance, writers can't be affected by the same criticism more than once.
legendary comment
Imagine if writing worked like that in real life, and whenever a writer is criticized they become to the immune to commiting the same writing "mistake" whether it be valid or invalid.
Why do people complain that GT never gave us adult Gotenks. He's right here.
Oooh, that's a good one!
There you go lol
I'm dying
total destruction
I have been complaining about the lack of aged up Gotenks till he finally happened in the last known chapter of super and still didn't cuz it was fat Gotenks
There's something uncanny yet hilarious about hearing Ryō Horikawa giving a fun and playful performance as Gogeta alongside Nozawa.
If there’s one thing I liked about SSJ4 Gogeta, it’s just how much “Sun Wukong” vibes he gives off. His little laugh, his playful nature, I can’t say it’s intentional, but I’ve always found that aspect to be fun considering how the series routes started as an inspiration to “Journey to the West”.
The part about Oob asking them to fuse with him must be one of the most regrettable in all of Dragon Ball. Poor dolt.
He was the only one with a brain there tbh.
Honestly, one massive issue of this arc's whole premise is... there aren't really enough memorable or notable wishes to base dragons on. Shenron was essentially a plot device to fix consequences of each arc and nothing more. There were little to no moment, where someone actually gets to wish for what they truly desire. Like imagine if at one point Goku makes a wish to see his grandpa again and it's precisely that wish that gets turned into a dragon that's good. Bonus points if the dragon also fights like grandpa Gohan and wears a mask, which is what makes Goku realise it's true nature. But this type of writing requires a long term planning and a very careful and subtle setup, something Dragonball isn't exactly known for.
Definitely wasn’t in Toriyama’s wheelhouse. Yeah it’s not really interesting for the dragons to talk about the wish that created them. “I brought that Indian guy back to life” “I brought chaotzu back”… nobody cares about chaotzu, or the wish that brought him back.
1. Panties
2. Reviving Bora
3. Reviving those killed by Piccolo
4. Piccolo’s wish for eternal youth
5. Reviving Goku
6. Reviving the Namekians
7. Removing the bomb from the androids.
Those all felt impactful to the show. After that the wishes just felt generic
I mean I wouldn't blame the og series. Tori didn't want to do that wit the story & he wouldn't have come up wit a concept like this. It's on the GT writers to make it work & in many areas it jus didn't but they also could've jus as easily not done this type of story
Silly GT fans. The reason the dragon made from the wish to resurrect Vegetas victims is a mole is because Goku buried Vegeta on Namek after he died, and when he was brought back to life he crawled out of the dirt Goku buried him under! Obviosuly.
(This is a joke fyi)
?
I want to laugh I swear
It's a good joke tho. It has more thought put into it that what poor GT writers were probably doing back then.
well hes not even the mole though right
so if you were gonna have a post hoc explanation wouldnt it make more sense to point out that he steals peoples power to make himself stronger for evil by sort of possessing them. thats kind of like a mishmash of vegeta babidi and buu together but at least thats a connection to the actual people right
Finally, someone noticed how Uub was screwed by the show. To think I had great anticipation for him when I first watched GT... Fucking hell. I felt like Dragon Ball was outright bullying me.
But what exactly are you supposed to do with Uub? He's completely and utterly bland and brings nothing to the table. 99% of his "potential" fans keep talking about boils down to "he's just so stwong!". I hate Uub. Buu on his own is so much more interesting.
@@kindlingking Uub is only bland and brings nothing to the table because he's handled by writers that never want to let him bring anything to the table. Any character concept can be potentially good but end up utterly wasted by poor execution.
@kindlingking So you blame the character and not the writers? Toriyama set Uub up for the next generation, and yet the writers in GT said, "Nah, let's ditched the guy and make Goku a kid again to relate for younger audience."
The nerve of you.
"Imagine caring for anyone besides Goku 😂😂😂"
GT writers
@@kindlingking It's up to the writters to figure out how to use Oob and make him not bland, silly.
This is a phenomenon I've seen in other places too. Fans who end up disappointed with something and want to read meaning into it so badly they latch onto whatever scraps they can. Like when Mass Effect 3 first launched, people disappointed with the ending would often latch onto the 'indoctrination theory' despite it not really holding up when examined. Because it was just plausible enough to latch onto on a surface level and was more interesting than the actual ending.
Reminds me of Sherlock. The last season only had 3 episodes, and they were really bad. Fans thought the 3 episodes were a fake out ending and that there would be an episode 4 to fix everything. Look it up it's kinda crazy how much they thought it would come out.
@@iananderson4754 Thank you I knew there was another example of this I was trying to remember but couldn't quite get there. I never watched Sherlock but I've heard about this one before.
I'm glad we live in a timeline where people finally realize that SSJ4 Gogeta is carried by the games
Gogeta was always carried by his outfit tbh, if he didn't have his tits out no one would care imo
Gogeta (gt). THE ONLY fusion carried by the games because he doesn't do anything noteworthy beyond the first minute, displaying his overwhelming speed.
Actually he does eliminate the negative karma energy around the earth
@jxrrxd4713 and them Omega spreads it again.
Good job.
@@andreware2039 well he did something wasn’t meaningful but it was something
I mean he does more than he did in his previous appearance in Z (where all he does is show up and be a bag of nothing for 2 minutes), and future appearance in DBS (where he doesn’t do much of anything but fight Broli).
@rhysbrockfenton in both of those situations, they both overpower the main antagonist until one is either dead or beaten and unable to fight (Broly just barely being saved from being annihilated).
Gogeta in gt plays around until the fusion runs out, which results in Omega later almost destroying the earth.
4:26 I commented on that last video that it would be a better idea if the 3 Star Dragon was from the Puccolo wish but I knew it wasn’t said in the show, I just thought it’d make more sense since 4 Star Dragon is his brother
Destroying ignorant wiki readers and being mindbroken by the destruction of logic during this fight. Yup, another great Dissection episode.
I still remember the half-hour episode just talking about Goku's house. Best dragonball channel on youtube
I imagine the Three Star-Piccolo revival misconception came about to explain why Three Star and Four Star specifically are brothers.
Fusions aren't allowed to be the solution to the problem, because once you can establish them as solutions to the issue, then the issue isn't as scary and, thus, removes the tension. In the case of Vegito, it makes sense why he isn't allowed to win: He wants to save his family. In the case of Gogeta, it makes sense why he is the solution: Vegeta is going to be put into the Soul Scrubber and reincarnate.
Wukong here has no reason to hold back. Why not give us something interesting, for once? The heroes do their trump card and it comes around that Kong here is actually SO outclassed, he is barely holding out the fight. Thus, when he says "Let's end this charade", he defuses and THEN we have a climax: How do we even deal with a villain not even pure raw power can overcome?
Of course, we all know what's happening behind scenes, so the writes probably don't care enough to even give us a proper fight with some tension, they just wanna wrap this up.
The fact that u care about not wasting our time speaks volumes about this channel
"When the writing's not there, fans will fill in the blanks," is a FANTASTIC way of summing it up, and it's something I've seen over and over in all kinds of fandoms. Often a piece of fanon becomes SO prolific that like you said, people assume it's true and use it to "correct" you if you're critical of something. And on occasion, especially as fans grow up and actually join the creative team of these properties, fanon actually DOES become canon. But as fun as fanon is, I do agree it shouldn't be used as a bludgeon to explain away *other* fans' criticisms with the source material.
I must say, as I was writing this, I had your voice in the back of my head saying, "I certainly don't want to tell anyone they're having fun wrong!" I admit I can't even remember what video that's from, but I think about it a lot and tried to hit a similar tone here while still being honest with my own feelings. I certainly don't begrudge anyone, especially children, for filling in those gaps. When you're a kid, the entire world doesn't make sense, so you're very much used to having to figure out explanations for everything. Or, as I literally just heard you say right before I sat down to write this reply, "Kids are really good at making things make sense that don't make sense."
Dragonball I think is the worst offender of this case and I see it most often on the powerscaling side. Unlike a lot of other media, Dragonball typically does not give hard numbers, proper scale or approximations of what their characters can do or are doing at any given moment. This has caused fans to make their own assertions and because many of these people watch only the English dub where liberties with the script are taken, this is all the more amplified.
For example, characters are often commented on being really fast to the point where onlookers often always exclaim "wow, he moved so fast I can't see him". But then you have, say, the Ocean/early Funi dub saying "that guy must have moved at the speed of light!" Even though in the original context, neither that term, nor any adjacent phrase or word was used. Then they get confused/upset when a proper lightspeed character _is_ introduced, expressed in such in the original context and suddenly, everyone they thought was that fast suddenly isn't against this guy
Man, I wish Dragon Ball GT was as cool as people keep saying it is. Unfortunately I watched it…. It was not at all cool
Glad you tackled the wish theory. Was never really sure on where it originated, but given that neither the original Japanese dub of the show or the show’s official guide doesn’t do much to indicate it, whatever the source would be would’ve deduced it via speculation.
It does show just how much potential there is to the Shadow Dragons. How many possibilities in connections and themes they could have. The complex moral dilemma you’ve been yearning for throughout this arc. No other characters in Dragon Ball seem to be given this much of reluctant intrigue. Truly fascinating.
As nice as it is to learn where it came from I tried not to have a laughing fit, the Wiki continues being the #1 source of Dragon Ball misinformation above the Funi dub and Viz translations
@ I still use it as reference for when I need information on stuff, but I also make sure I don’t take it at immediate face value. Not all information on there is made up and from my recent experiences, they have gotten better at including sources and pointing out when something is dub only. Still, it helps to double check on other sources for information.
@@sumeracarnatia6997 Oh, it's one of those wikis that are doing an effort to improve their quality, add sources and remove all headcanons that went unnoticed? Proud of them! I actually did not expect the DB wiki to be among those
12:59 I literally made a video on this, the English dub actually changed this line to Goku being amused that their sons were fighting together… WTF Here's the vid: ruclips.net/video/iAFHm2-qPTw/видео.htmlsi=cM_S41LVJmTdyOuy
The English dub is never accurate; after all, no one in GT would remember Gotenks.
Haha, wow, that is such a random change!
18:31 He got that power from Goku, remember telekinesis on Namek😂
The only redeeming quality about SS4 Gogeta is that he looks really cool. Everything else about him is a dumb, annoying waste of time. This only exists just to gaslight us into thinking Vegeta actually matters in this show, just like his SS4 transformation.
Fans were demanding SSJ4 Vegeta and Gogeta, GT just did what the fans wanted...
The best thing about SS4 Gogeta is being OP in videogames.
@@Jose-se9pubut that's the thing,we didn't even get gogeta.
@Jose-se9pu
Fans also demanded SS4 Gohan, where is he? Hell, adult Gotenks was so demanded by the fandom back then they literally adressed him and still had him no show up. This is not an excuse.
Really, it's extremely stupid to argue "they did what fans wanted" when talking about something not being important. You know it could have been *both ways*, right? They could have given us SS4 Vegeta and Gogeta and actually have them doing shit this arc. They are not mutually exclusive concepts at all.
These GT characters get carried hard by their design and their appearances in the video games. Guys like Baby and the Four Star Dragon are so much cooler when all you have is an interesting design and a vague notion of their backstory.
Honestly, my own theory about the theorists?
The American fandom loves to put Z, GT, and the original DB television series up on a pedestal, especially those who grew up with the dubs of those shows on Toonami in the 2000s. Oftentimes, the older fans love to excuse every bad writing decision those three series make, including those related to GT, choosing to instead focus on things like “The Shadow Dragons were great in concept! Look at this great idea the show had! Hey, look at Gogeta! He was the strongest character in Dragon Ball till Battle of Gods!” I’ve even seen one RUclipsr-a guy who’s making an “Evil Goku and Chichi” game at the moment-call these three shows “the original trilogy” and say that things like Daima are good compared to garbage like Super, but don’t measure up to the “original trilogy”. It’s no surprise to me that fans do the writing for the writers, because they likely haven’t truly seen the shows outside of RUclips clip form since before they were old enough to form mature critical thoughts on it. Therefore, it was good when they were kids, so it has to be the greatest thing ever! Who cares about the Black Star Dragon Balls episodes? FUNimation didn’t even bother dubbing them in the original run of the show over here, so they must be insufferable trash that clearly isn’t as interesting as edgy action cartoon wars!
Not to mention the Dragon Ball fandom wiki is largely influenced by dub fans. I mean, its designations of characters have an “anime name” and “manga name” section in the character statistic sheet, with the “anime name” as the primary. Uh, no, the characters don’t have differing names between mediums; VIZ just translates the names way better than Crunchyroll or FUNimation nearly every time, or makes them up as they see fit.
While I was not part of the fandom back in the day, but the Netlore is that 100 years later Goku was hyped up as the strongest character in the dragonball franchise. It was the "what if goku was imprisoned in the hyperbolic time chamber" meme of the time. Especially due to the cool factor that he would appear and disappear like a ghost was also added some mysticism to 100 years later Goku.
Also the Evil Goku guy has some very hot takes and I'm pretty sure he is just trolling his audience alot of the time.
@@diegodankquixote-wry3242 Mr. Evil Goku has the same problem as Th3Birdman in my opinion. He does a poor job of distinguishing between his trolling and his actual criticism, which leads me to believe it’s the latter thinly veiled as the former to grab people’s attention.
Well in Latam GT was well liked but everyone knows and admit it has terrible Quality, the best shows in terms of quality were DB and DBZ.
"and say that things like Daima are good compared to garbage like Super, but don’t measure up to the “original trilogy”."
whats wrong about that?
SSJ4 Gogeta is probably the number 1 case of his portrayel being carried more by how cool he looks in Video Games then the Show itself.
On one hand, him being an overconfident trickster could be calling back to the Sun Wukong inspiration for the SSJ4 Design, which is neat but the fact that he dissapears for the rest of the arc or doesnt do anything significant in the grand scheme of the show like say weaken One Star to the point the heroes stood more of a chance or something.
Feels like a wasted oppurtunity.
I don't think I even remembered SSJ4 Gogeta existed until he got announced as the last character for FighterZ. But I had the luxury of GT not being the last original piece of Dragon Ball content I'd see for the next 15 years. That puts into perspective how much his popularity is a result of specific circumstances.
While we're not at it, I'm just gonna come out and say my piece, this is the reason why I cannot vibe with the ending of GT when taking the series as a hole. To get to the ending in even the last half, you just feel everybody throwing the scripts into the air shouting "Who cares?!", one animator has just shoved a genga into their mouth and started munching because they're thinking "We're gonna be out of a job soon.". This series goes into maximum overdrive with being both too fast and too slow. It is somehow the most rushed and slapdash point of GT and also one of the most meandering. It doesn't help that this is the such a diet DBZ. Hell, it's not even diet DBZ. It has no caffeine, no energy and there's friggin' melatonin at the bottom. This is DBZ if you asked somebody who vaguely remembered the series but HATED every aspect of what they saw to construct what they think the quintessential formula is.
This is why no matter what? I genuinely feel GT is the WORST part of Dragon Ball. Minus? The RF Saga of Super? Frankly, drops of gold compared to GT because aside from me liking what the fans don't more often than not (the RF Saga being an exception.)? Nothing so far leaves me this frustrated, this genuinely angry and bored at the same time.
The scene after Gogeta pranks the One Star Dragon where he is laughing his ass off amuses me because you can hear both Goku and Vegeta laughing together.
Hearing Vegeta's actor laugh as his character in a really goofy fashion is just something you rarely if ever get to witness.
They managed to erase Majin Boo and never gave Oob any relevance after they reunite. Two wasted characters after all.
I feel like if Majin Boo's personality had a meaningful influence on Oob's character is wouldn't have been as bad.
It's really weird how GT had a lot of disdain for having any characters that weren't humans or Saiyans around.
20:30 okay real talk WHY wouldn't Goku just grab Vegeta by the scruff of the neck and teleport to god to fuse in peace?
I thought he was made by my wish to get you to 30k subscribers.
The way Uub is just used as villain fodder always disappointed me. The end of the original series sets him up as the true protege of Goku, but the payoff to that idea is so weak it's like Toei was intentionally sabotaging any good ideas for GT. You'd think that being raised and personally trained by the single best warrior in the universe would've brought better results.
Gogeta goofing around with the One-Star Dragon is one of the worst moments of GT. Gotenks doesn't take fights seriously, because he is made out of two kids. Vegito toyed around with Buu, because he didn't actually want to defeat him at that moment. There's no reason for Gogeta not to finish the fight as quickly as possible. Even if you want to say that Goku being a kid gives Gogeta a slightly more childish personality (which is dubious, since they fused as Super Saiyan fours, when Goku is turned back to an adult), the Vegeta-side should balance that out.
Half of this Gogeta is a kid, though
@Jose-se9pu Goku fused as an adult and the other half of the fusion is a very serious guy, who always one-shotted people he wanted dead, whenever possible.
@Jose-se9pu
Did...Did you seriously not even read the comment you reply to? They literally already adressed that. And Goku didn’t regress mentally to a kid anyways.
I swear GT fanboys genuinely don't even read. We are not overcoming the allegations.
I feel like the writers tried to justify it by having him purify the Power Ball to fix the miasma around the Earth, but that could've just disappeared automatically when the final dragon died and I doubt audiences would've batted an eye.
Gogeta is just there to be Fan Service and stall until their episode count quota.
As much as Vegitto appearance in Super doesn't add much to the Zamazu fight, it makes much more sense that they try to use him, Zamazu has fused using Potara and they have 2 Kaioshin that can borrow earing to Goku and Vegeta.
And by the limited time that he has, he doesn't he doesn't throw a fight in the bag for nothing by goofing around, he gives all he has. Vs Gogeta that could and should have finished Ei Shenlong, whenever he wanted and just didn't because thet need to fill the episode numbers
Vegetto was a lot worse because they had to introduce a massive retcon to bring him back
@Jose-se9pu meh, this retcon never bothered me, Toriama would never really commit to the fact that Potara fusion would be permanent anyway.
The fact it was permanent was there for some flimsy stakes.
@@Jose-se9pu That is your reason to deem Vegitto was worse? A minor retcon?
Jesus freaking christ, fandom was a mistake.
@@XanderVJFandom was a mistake because someone has an opinion different than yours? I feel like your comment was significantly worse than theirs
@@Jose-se9pu dragon ball has a LOT of retcons. Remember when you could only revive someone once with the dragon balls?
Big Bang is such a cool title for an attack.
Ultimate Majuuhan and Gotenks? Nah, clearly they wouldn't be able to help
Ultimate Majuuhan is crazy.
Ultimate Majuuhan?? Don't let dragonball heroes hear it.
@hamburgermafia123
Even ignoring Heroes stopped doing crazy shit way too many years ago (SS3 Nappa and Raditz were the true last ones, with everything since then being stupidly tied to the actual story), it has been over for months now. Your joke is so outdated is concerning.
I hate this because there is no way they wouldn't be able to at least fucking distract Omega. No, GT, we are not buying it. There is no Gotenks because you didn't bother with an adult design, that's it. Don't give us this shitty excuse twice.
@@gokunenn4243 I was talking about the game, which is still ongoing and keeps giving us such bangers as golden great ape gogeta, baby janemba and super 17 absorbing almost every single android. I wasnt shitting on heroes, I enjoy most of their crazy stuff.
You know, if you cut the Gogeta part entirely and just had Goku's Spirit Bomb radiate enough plus energy to fix the Earth, it'd probably have worked better as an ending. Because the Gogeta stuff doesn't accomplish too much of anything aside from that. Four Star comes back just to die again in the same fight and get absorbed again. Also, I feel like the writers forgot that there's a cooldown before you can fuse again.
As a small aside, the Big Bang Kamehameha looks pretty underwhelming as a "Kamehameha", though the versions from the video games never really manage to capture the Big Bang part too well either.
I think that was in just to show Gogeta "flexing", he fixed everything with a simple kick (reminds of Superboy fixing the multiverse with a punch)
Fusions in general are really unnecessary in stories no matter the series they only work in movies.
As for Fusion Cool down, it wouldn't had worked anyway considering how weak Goku was as the show had displayed.
I say Gogeta just like Si's return and the dragon fist are all intentional red herrings as toei tries to recreate the power up tennis matches Toriyama used so often (the whole Freezer fight, endless Island adventure, random bullshit go against all flavors of Boo)
It really doesn't look like either attack, but I like how the Big Bang Kamehameha is a pulse of energy in GT rather than a beam like the video games. If they'd showed it slowly disintegrating Yi Shen Long's body or something it would probably have sold it better.
@@rin4425 Well, yes, Goku's ki running out would prevent fusion, but the time limit is more of an immediate problem that would have prevented fusion. To use a different analogy, this is basically Goku complaining that he doesn't have enough money to buy what he wants from the store when the store is closed for the day.
SSJ4 Gogeta seems like the best part of GT on paper, but really all he does is mess around and drag out him fight with Omega Shenron. Basically trying to rehash the Vegito vs Buuhan when it feels more like Gotenks vs Super Buu.
Really, Gogeta felt like a liabity rather than a powerful asset. Instead of showcasing his overwhelming power through intense combat sequences or strategic maneuvers, the character occasionally indulges in light-heartedness that undermines the stakes involved in the fight. With the exclusion of Z Gogeta, the approach to Fusions in general lead to a sense of anticlimax when fans expect epic confrontations.
18:40 well Gotenks was able to create ghosts of himself out of his mouth so probably
Never forget the Clothes Beam is canon
"I didn't want to ruin the flow of that episode by digging into the wishes. So I will ruin the flow of this episode by focusing heavily on fan theories about a wish"
Honestly, the long rants about minor topics are my favorite part of these videos lol
Gogeta fits the camp of overpowered characters who still don’t accomplish anything.
Yeah, good thing he was redeemed in Dragon Ball Super Broly
@@craigpeoples9883 I mean.. he barely did anything there too other than be able to hold off and almost unalive Broly all while destroying the ice caps with him. just a glorified win button.
@@AnAverageGoblin Gogeta doesn't kill Broly, but he becomes so much of an indomitable force that the conflict ends as a result of his presence making Cheelai teleport Broly away. That at least counts for something, especially given that Broly was going to steamroll over everyone else relentlessly if they didn't fuse.
@@TheAzulmagia Fair.
@@craigpeoples9883Eh not really? And if you really wanna talking about "Redeeming" SDBH does that with SSB Gogeta and SSJ4 Gogeta respectively.
I wonder how much of the issues with wikia is a game of telephone. Fans speculating and then forgetting what they talked about was speculation, mutating into fact much like gossip and rumors. I think a similar issue was touched upon when fans assumed something was canon and then it turned out it was something TeamFourStar made up.
As for the episode, GT is definitely running on fumes at this point. It's a shame. There's huge potential for the Shadow Dragons arc but it's clear the ideas the writers brainstormed didn't have the time to be refined. The staff has to meet a deadline to meet the weekly release of the show.
Fantastic video Lance! Hope you have a wonderful holiday!
God forbid, the side characters be useful.
Also, I really enjoy that I kind of expected "can tough it out swallowing a Dragon Ball" would just be some kind of magic thing Goku could do, especially in Super Saiyan 4, but then he reacts like you actually would if you tried to do that. My guy almost chokes to death! Honestly, hilarious.
I'm surprised you haven't commented on how much this show loves to use the Megaman/Rockman X charge shot sound effect yet, SSJ4 Gogeta uses it during his prank Kamehameha in this episode. I know it doesn't add anything to the show just thought it'd be something you'd joke about.
It's honestly one of those things I keep telling myself I'll bring up, ever since I covered movie 9 (which is the first time I remember noticing it). I just never end up doing it. I'm glad somebody else has noticed!
Good video dissection Mistare Fusion. Your thoughts on the Shenrons was interesting as well as the take on SSJ4 Gogeta. Truthfully, I also don't quite like his characterization being him toying around, but I chalk it up to him being immensely strong, a potential reconnection to Sun Wukong and/or the "positive/negative" ki argument.
But, it is what it is. Your dissection brought things to the forefront and was nice to hear. I personally think the show could've done better but they tried what they could in the moment. Just needed more time and guidance really from the jump before Episode 1. Still love Uub as a character even if he's not interesting to some, he will always be my favorite!
Anywho, can't wait for the GT finale! Keep up the good work!
7:35 - I'm gonna wait just for another DB retcon by Toei. Hey. Maybe they'll figure out new way to split those fused by Potara Earrings.
Great video as always Lance! I really like that you spent the first twelve minutes of the video not talking about Gogeta lol But in all seriousness, I’m glad you addressed the dragons & the wishes & how the reasons for their existence & actions seemed to be written more by the fans because I do feel that is the case with a lot of Dragonball in general (a notable example being people trying to explain how Gohan & 16 have a connection to justify the SSj2 transformation). I also really love you ripping into how stupid & useless Gohan & Oob were in the section of the story, but this shows one of my biggest frustrations with not just this series, but the franchise as a whole & it ties into fans of this series writing their own head canons.
Akira Toriyama did not plan Dragonball out from beginning to end. Heck, he famously was going to end after the first arc, but decided to continue with a tournament arc. He never really planned anything through, & frequently forgot about stuff he wrote almost immediately after he had written it down. In one of your videos for the Piccolo arc, you once said that Toriyama was often very lazy & uncreative when it came to his characters, & said that a lot of them had little to no personality, only did one thing & then languished in obscurity & that is exactly the case. Because Toriyama always wrote by the seat of his pants, he never bothered to really develop any of the characters in the series other than Goku(with Piccolo, Vegeta, Mr. Satan being minor exceptions), so nearly all of them end up becoming useless dead air by the Cell arc, let alone GT. This also resulted in a lot of characters being completely redundant. The whole reason Puar & Chaotzu even existed was to contrast Oolong & Krillin but never did anything else beyond their introductions. There’s a good reason for your “nobody cares about Chaotzu” joke! This is why the ending to GT infuriates me so much. It was bad enough that in the Buu arc Toriyama immediately gave up on Gohan & Goten being the protagonists in favour of Goku again, but at the end of that arc, Toriyama also introduces two new kid characters in Pan & Oob. The fact that Goku leaves to train with Oob rather than Pan always felt a slap in the face not only to her but to all of the characters in the series, & again as you pointed out in your videos, having those two characters is absurdly redundant. Why not get rid of Oob in favour of Pan(aside from the obvious sexism)? The fact that by the end of GT, both her & Oob are complete dead weight really hits home the idea that nobody other than Goku ever mattered in this franchise. GT’s problem is that instead of doing something & correcting Toriyama’s mistakes, they just double down on the nostalgia & fanservice & essentially make Goku the most important guy in the universe, with nobody other than Vegeta mattering, & even Vegeta in the end is just a glorified back up dancer. Super had this problem as well, though I did quite enjoy the recent film, for daring to actually focus on other characters, even if it did in the end fall back on the tired predictable power up transformations. Anyways, sorry for this long rambling comment, just wanted to get that off my chest. Can’t wait to see next week’s video!
This show definitely exists in the "Toei Dragon Ball" space, where all the movies and anime-original mini-arcs happened and can be called back to, and just don't think about how any of it fits into the show's timeline. It just happened, like...back then...at that time...a while ago...y'know...
Considering the ygo wiki fake cites the manga for the puzzle granting luck power, I would take everything from a wiki with a grain of salt
Was that something only introduced in the anime adaptation? Or does changing fate not count as luck in a technical sense?
and this is why I will never understand the popularity of Fusion in DB.
Its the same two kinds of jokes, and they always play out in the exact same way. feels like something early DB would have mocked using a gag character with the punchline of "too much hassle not worth the payoff just train more lmao"
all it does is just make an incredibly boring amalgamation of two other characters who is so strong they win the fight while completely trivializing the plot at that point.
its like that Chekov's gun thing for writing and it barely gets held back by "Vegeta is too prideful to be silly or work with others" which they conveniently get to throw away when they need to shove Fusion in after they write their butts into corner.
imo Fusion is just an adrenaline shot for when they make a plot too boring because the prospect of it happening seems to make people happy.
In this episode, Gogeta invents Reverse Cursed Technique
Splitting into 5 and doing the party popper trick and then doubling over from his own goof is some real Monkey King behavior.
Seems pretty clear to me that this arc needed a singular focus with the Dragons. Having just one made by the abuse of the Dragon Balls would have been perfectly fine. The biggest criticism of the Dragon Balls in the story is the avoidance of consequences, and having a dragon made from that avoidance would make more sense than the individual wish nonsense
I noticed that the only wishes that were never used to create a dragon were the wishes made after Shenlong was rescued by Kami and Dende. I think that might have to do with Shenlong was brought back to life like the Gods were directly involved.
uub is the yamcha of dragon ball gt
He's the Gohan of GT as well
Built up with the idea that he was a successor, only to be one of the strongest people but still doesn't do crap, and then he just ends up being a hype machine for the real main characters.
6:05 It's odd the DBwiki will use Funi dub names as it's main terms, then keep the sub names as aliases, but choose to ignore every other dub that give DB characters different names, San Xing Long is known as San Shenron in the Blue Water Dub of GT wheres the listing for that, especially since theres a page for it on the site.
Uub was so completely and utterly wasted in not just this arc but GT as a whole, and he's supposed to be the reincarnation of Kid Buu on top of absorbing Fat Buu, along with being trained by Goku, but the writers did nothing with him but be used as fodder.
I remember how repetitive these last few episodes of GT are. It's like nothing happens, it feels mind numbing. I was a kid when I first watched it and even then I was bored.
17:10 Funfact: In the dub they call this move the Negative Karma Bomb, now that's some BAAAAAAD KARAMA there.
I always knew it as the Minus Energy Ball. Wonder where that name comes from?
Omega Shenron is pretty much diet Frieza without any of the charm and charisma.
Fun fact, it my birthday today.
Happy birthday!
I really do wonder about SS4 Gogeta's design. Did they go with the red hair and brown fur just as a stylistic choice? Either way, it does look great on him.
Dragon Ball fans speaking head canon loudly enough to materialize it in to "fact"? Color me surprised!
If I'm being perfectly honest here, you're going far too easy on the wiki. By making itself use the anime's original-run English dub as its canon as opposed to the Japanese manga, it propagates more misinformation than a thousand misguided fans on discussion boards. It's even gotten to the point where in other wiki-type compendia (TV Tropes, for example), folks have constructed awkward katakana back-formations for characters whose given names exist only in the American English dub, like "Jimmy Firecracker"! I wouldn't be so incensed at this except for the fact that a wikia is one of the first places people go when they're confused about the lore of a new property. For the wiki to shovel this much garbage and call it canon is just plain sloppy.
As a side note, knowing you're a RedLetterMedia fan, was 19:30 a nod to Rich Evans?
It's also the same wiki that tries to validate dumb concepts across the fantasy like "Super Saiyan Power" by claiming it has happened in the Super manga because of coloring errors.
Even as a tween watching this 20 years ago it was baffling that this was supposed to be the final battle of the franchise.
You know this, torn out city is kinda boring setting for the final fight, especially since half the Evil Dragon fights have taken place in cities. Compare this to the last fight in Z where the last fight takes place on Shin's planet, which is a beautiful and unique place.
Just asking out of curiosity since you mentioned you watch the show with the original Japanese dub.
Can you actually speak and understand Japanese or do you rely on subtitles?
If yes, how did you learn it?
"The power required for the wish is what dictates the dragon's strength."
. . . Then why is the woman who was made from a single pair of panties made by a non combatant so strong?
Well, Pilaf was in the middle of asking for world domination. Based on the Japanese, maybe Shenlong misconstrued it as asking for the Earth's pair of panties, and it was just a whole ordeal making that happen.
My head canon is Sān Xīng Lóng and Sì Xīng Lóng are “brothers” because both wishes that they were created from were connected to demon energy.
And that’s the problem of the show. It’s so bad at explaining things that fans have to resort to headcanon‘s to make the villains believable.
Even when I watch your Dissection series, I still get thr same feeling from when I watched GT and this fight started boring me: "How the hell did we get here again?"
Could you add this to the Dragon Ball Dissection playlists?
Done! Thanks for the reminder!
Too bad for Uub. I don't think even Toriyama thought him through as a character. He was the reincarnation of Majin Buu........and that's it.
Im sure they picked wishes randomly
It was all worth it for the scene of Gokuu eating the dragon ball to be able to exist. Hilarious.
I actually have the phrase "this is Dragon Ball Dissection not Dragon Ball Plot Synopsis" quite present while watching this that I didn't realize that it was a few years since it was actually said. Damn. Hard to believe it has already been 7 years since I've discovered DBD...
This is a personal gripe that might be nitpicking but ive never ever liked the idea Gogetas plan. I feel like him planning on Omega using one very specific attack that he was never hinted at showing before only for him to just put a little bit of his own "positive" energy into the blast felt very contrived.
Like they even show that sinply "making" a spirit bomb can dispel the negative energy so could Gogeta have just nuked Omega and then have just cleaned up the negative energy?
I dont know maybe im over thinking it 😊
Well... the Fusion move did indeed not work twice.
3:39 makes me think about how they literally could have used the dragons going to locations/targeting wish makers and recipients as a way to further push the nostalgia factor of GT home. Would have made for a better story and could have allowed others to br involved in the plot.
To be fair, while it doesn't fit with how supposedly dire the situation is, I like how SSJ4 is basically Sun Wukong Monkey God, all playful and nonchalant. He makes a more memorable impression here than in either Fusion Reborn or Super Broly imo
I thought it would have been interesting if one of the Dragons was the wish of bringing Goku back to life and he has a huge grudge against him.
I kinda hate how GT and Super made Gogeta act as arrogantly as any other fusion, what made Gogeta work in his first appearance was that he got straight to business, which is usually boring but works as a contrast to both other fusions and dragon ball in general (though this is probably less an intentional choice and more the movie running out of time to do anything else). It also has the side effect of ignoring why Vegetto originally engaged in the tomfoolery in the Buu arc.
Super Gogeta literally tries to end Broly the second he gets. Yes he doesn’t go straight into Blue and he smirks a bit but that’s something both Goku and Vegeta would do. You can also rationalize it by Gogeta not wanting to use more power than necessary in order to avoid needles destruction but the second Super Saiyan Gogeta starts losing ground he turns into Blue showing how seriously he really is.
@Powerman77775 he also wasted time trying to decide on a name and let Freeza escape, so it's tough to see him as having escapes from the trope of overconfident, carefree fusions for me.
This has always just been pute headcanon tho. We get nothing from Gogeta personality-wise the first time he appears against Janemba and there is no reason to assume he is any dofferent from Vegetto. Hell, what says Vegetto would not finish Janemba right away either? As you say yourself there is a reason for his attitude on the Buu arc. He is not Gotenks. So how is he different from Gogeta then?
Hell, Super Gogeta was outright going to kill Broly. Him deciding on a name is not a personality change, because Z Gogeta already had a name decided. He didn't shut up about calling himself Gogeta-sama when he was Veku. There is nothing saying Z Gogeta would not have done the same when he is not directly on the battlefield. It's, again, pure headcanon that doesn't rven make any sense. "He is not Gotenks so he is different from the other fusions" or maybe Gotenks is the overly arrogant brat?
@gokunenn4243 the fact that he shows no personality is exactly what made him feel different. GT and Super Gogeta were faced with equally dire situations and still chose to express themselves as much as they could.
@@shahzebhasan9995 Overconfident and Carefree isn't a Fusion Trope its a Goku and Vegeta Trope or if you wanna get cynical it is a Saiyan Trope.
Letting Frieza go is something Goku would do and has done numorous times. Vegeta is the poster child for Overconfident why should a fusion of the two not be expected to have these traits?
16:45 Uub: "I am surrounded by i-di-ots."
18:29 Wait, Gogeta is not MADE OF energy.
11:24 That’s not a problem with GT though that’s a fan thing
I will say the 3 Star Dragon being 4 Star’s twin would naturally lead people to believe the other wish to bring back everyone Daimao killed would be the one to create 3 Star. For me, I think that’s not a big leap to make and why I think the GT Perfect Files got that wrong.
But I will say, I don’t use the amount of people revived to explain why One Star is the strongest. Instead I go to an often forgotten line where Elder Kaioshin says he told the Namekians to keep all their wishes related to their world and never use it on others or the damage would be catastrophic on a universal scale. Notable he’s the only wish that spans multiple different planets in the original series on Earth’s Dragon Ball’s anyways.
One Star being the only Dragon to care about actually causing problems on a grander scale than just Earth really fits with that if you ask me.
The rest of the stuff on the DB Wiki I have never even heard of before and yeah they were definitely reaching lmao
As much as I love Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta, GT was not the fusion’s finest. I can be honest, my enjoyment of him is purely for the cool factor. He was the strongest, he’s awesome in games, especially FighterZ, but as a part of GT’s story, he’s the epitome of fireworks.
Granted, he did do that Plus Energy kick to cleanse the world from Minus Energy, but who’s to say that couldn’t have happened by Goku’s Spirit Bomb?
I never watched GT all the way through but every Dragon Ball video game before Super came out and even some after like Fighterz and Sparking Zero and even the fans to this day treat Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta like he is the pinnacle, the peak, the absolute best one can be, the strongest ever and a god of martial arts. That he is the result of years of experience everyone involved in the creation of Dragon Ball has in crafting battles for comics and animation. Now that I saw a little and watched this video... this guy? Really? This nothing ball? The first two tournaments offered way better fights like Muten Roshi vs Tenshinhan or later Goku vs Piccolo Daimao/Piccolo Junior. Goku vs Vegeta or Vegeta vs all of Freeza's henchmen are also highlights for me! Is it his magic, made up, not even mentioned power level number? Would he still be so popular if he was a low Red Ribbon henchmen of White's army that fight exactly the same like he does here but then gets easily defeated by Goku? Piccolo Daimao doesn't fighter better than Vegeta and he doesn't better than Freeza who doesn't fight better than Cell and so on. That's the point of battle power numbers. Toriyama had difficulty showing that the new dudes are super stronger and better and stuff so he attached stats to them. Good fighting is good fighting. Show Vegetto vs Boo and Goku vs Cell to someone who doesn't know Dragon Ball and he couldn't tell what is ''stronger''. Tao Pai Pai is my favourite Dragon Ball villain closely followed by Named era Vegeta and they don't become less and less my favourite each time something stronger is introduced. Super Saiyan God Goku vs Beerus was boring and lame as hell for me but is what meant to be the biggest and strongerest fight ever. Show me good, don't tell me it's good and make me care for the stakes and characters while you at it, Dragon Ball.
It's because he's really good in the video games. That's about it.
The reason why he's seen like this is because he's the one in all the games, not Adult GT Goku.
The big disadvantage of making Dragon Ball’s heroes strong enough to destroy planets. Fortunately Dragon Ball Super manages to include several moments of skill overcoming pure power, making it clear a good fighter isn’t synonymous with a good martial artist.
Dragonball fans feed on hype. Gogeta was the strongest for so long and was so powerful in videogames, he just became consolidated as some kind of hype peak
@@paperprince2953 Adult Goku gets a lot of this, too. I see people act as if he's the total badass who doesn't fuck around unlike stupid Super Goku, when actual GT Goku did shit like shoot Super 17 with a x10 Kamehameha while knowing he could absorb energy just to see if it would work.
Fans obsession with lore and filling in the gaps tends to result into that, and it's doubly funny when the source material has no interest in the lore or the gaps. Seems like you're finishing GT this December, so I gotta wonder if you're going to tackle the pre-Super films and TV specials, and perhaps even super itself?
Something I hope you touch on is, despite how popular the ending of GT is, it seems so dour and almost mean-spirited at the same time.
Like if you really stop and think about this as the conclusion of the animated run (since GT was marketed as a sequel to Z), then Goku and the Dragon Balls are essentially gone forever, Piccolo is BANISHED to Hell with seemingly no second thought on Enma’s part to undo it, Blooma and the Son families are no-contact for generations, Majin Boo is gone forever to be absorbed by a much less interesting character, and #17 was brutally killed after wrecking havoc as a main antagonist.
I don’t really care for Super’s (or Daima’s for that matter) insistence of cramming far too many things in an impossibly small chunk of time, ignoring Z’s own ending, but at least it ends (or continues I suppose) in a way that treats everyone as friends with room for character growth. The downside being that y’know, nothing has ever really ENDED since GT wrapped up.
Edit: I want to be clear that yes, there IS a good amount of growth and change here (primarily from Goku and Vegeta). At the same time, it’s become quite clear over time why this ending (and entire show) was overridden. I respect the boldness and true finality of it, but I’m also not surprised why Super and Daima ran back to comfort and familiarity.
That’s why it’s so good (btw the headwriter of GT has stated that 17 did come back to life in the end. They even planned to show it but that scene was scrapped for time.
How Daima would be if it didn’t run back to familiarity
@@TragicKF I heard they also planned to give Gohan some spotlight but it looks it didn’t go through. Gt and its ending were good for what they were, but all these plans and how gt ended left more to be desired.
@ that is true. He was supposed to have a bigger role in the Super 17 stuff.
Imagine this being the last ever fight of dragon ball ever. Oh wait! It was for 20 years+. Also, have you talked about how Omega Shenron kinda sucks at using his powers. Why doesnt he eat away gokus powerlevel with haze shenrons power?
I'll say it because I need to vent this frustration every time im reminded of it.
Even when I was a kid & this part of the show aired on Cartoon Network dubbed & it got to the part where Uub learned what the Fusion Dance was & wanted to fuse with someone, I questioned why at least Goten & Trunks didnt wanna fuse into adult Gotenks. It gets even worse when you take into account that the writers more than likely brought Gogeta into the fold for fanservice. Why not repeat the other thing Fusion Reborn did as well when Goten & Trunks felt their fathers' fused energy & decided to fuse themselves? It's so weird. Even if Gotenks couldn't beat 1-Star, he could've at least provided decent back-up for their dads. Such a wasted opportunity in a series full of tryhard fanservice to not do the most obvious bit of it.
Hell, in Battle of Gods, they fuse into Gotenks to fight Beerus when he starts going all destroyer on them. Because that at least makes sense even if they ultimately didnt do jackshit.
16:32 If I may ask, where in the US are you from Lance? Every now and then you use an interesting accent and intonation. You articulation is always very clear which is not that common in English speakers in general.
I grew up mostly in the Deep South, but I do hope that's not what you're hearing! I'm assuming you're referring to whatever snarky voice I use for Oob in the moments just prior to the timestamp? I don't know if that's really meant to evoke any specific regional area. It just seemed like an appropriate character voice for that particular moment.
Im sad because we're gonna get alot of people who love GT and really don't like you try and say you're policing how fans interact with the show when what you're doing is saying "theories are not facts, stop acting like these are facts stated in the show" because I remember hearing people say that bit about Eis saying he was made from the wish for king piccolo alot
Poor poor Uub. From a promising next generation hero to the Tenshinhan of GT.
I guess Gojo from Jujutsu Kaisen is basically Gogeta considering how they are hyped as the strongest character but the writer removed him because he is not the protagonist
God, Wikia (now fandom) wikis are always so shitty.
14:46 Dear God, it's tiring already? Oof, I can't even imagine how you feel about Fusion in Modern Dragon Ball then. It's practically everywhere after the Universe 6 tournament.
It has been used twice in canon since then. Twice.
Overexaggerating much?
Love all the gifs in this video. You know I feel like the two episodes you covered really should be the other way around. Why spend an entire episode hyping up fusion again after we just saw it? That way Gohan wouldn't have to be made into an idiot and they could just skip to Goku reverting back to his base form. It also would have made the development with the ball he ate line up far better. Instead of it being forgotten for an entire episode. Structure GT structure. Even here fusion is just a waste of time. Goku and Vegeta power up more than enough to defeat the enemy only to get dragon balled. Super runs that into the ground even with the "permanent" fusion. Being a early adaptor is like being a time traveler.
god damn that stretch joke got me good
My brain hurts watching this video from the info.
Is it weird that I think Gogeta looks the best as a SS4? He at least has a better excuse for the magic pants.
the hair/haircolor make it stand out from just being vaguely goku and vegeta-like.
The hairstyle makes ot less cool than Goku for me, but colour-wise he is easily the best.
He is the only one who keeps a colored brightly hair and brown fur, which given the concept of SS4 you would think would be in everyone.
It never made sense tho. It looks awesome, but why Black amd brown hair make reddish Orange? Even back in school there were theories that Gogeta's base hair was that color but we didn’t know because we never saw it, because otherwise where did it come from?
I actually dislike Gogeta's personality here because it's how they acted when they fought Buuhan. But that was a fake personality. That was just a ruse to piss Buu off to goad him into absorbing them. Why are they making him act like that because Vegito did when that was never Vegito's real personality?
wasnt he just goading one star into using all his evil spooky dark minus energy so he could do the sky thing
i thought it was straight up just vegito but again
@@Estra_Estra That's an ass-pull to say he could've thought of that. I recall Goku even saying the fusion got the worst aspects of their personalities.