Hi! I have a couple of questions, why dont you set cineon on your cst node? Also, would you color correct the shot first before applying the lut and push for the look after?
You mean on the first one? Because I would have a double log image then! I usually transform it to rec709 first to see what we are dealing with. Sometimes, I even balance it by myself without a lut.
There is another advantage to have the CST into cineon film log in a separate node. Once we do the Compound node (with the CST and the LUT) you can decrease the key output (transparency) of the compound node itself, and that would reveal the node with the CST to Rec709. this means you are dealing back the LUT and revealing the original Rec709 image (with proper saturation and contrast). If we just use 1 CST node to send the image directly from RED Log to Cineon Film Log, then if we want to increase the transparency of the LUT node we end up showing the log image behind it, instead of the rec 709.
@@theflowowl thanks for breaking it down for me! I dont know how I did not see it that way, its so straightforward and i feel dumb for not seeing that straight away 😅
Cullen recently mentioned that even this approach is not correct because actual film stock 'doesn't know' rec. 709. A better way to do it is doing an Aces transform to ADX 10-CSC. The ADX standard was invented by ACES to come up with a solution for this exact problem.
Did he say that in a video? Which one? The thing with cg is: You learn something new everyday. Oftentimes, there is no right or wrong, just different approaches. But thank you very much for the hint, I will gladly check that out!
@@Gavin_Haughey_Colorist Yes, he mentioned it a couple weeks back. See here, minute 17:50 ruclips.net/video/uS0qmsw0mj8/видео.html&ab_channel=CullenKelly However, I personally cannot really implement this approach with my Sony a7s III because the profile is not included in the ACES transform :(
@@TeipelFilms Do your own test. The comparison between those two options is very minimal. And the LUT expects Rec709 as input. It is in the header of the LUT itself. Too often I hear people repeating things they hear from others without testing it themselves or just "blindly" follow "something new" just because it is "new". Same with "linear". I've seen many people doing CST sandwiches because they think a certain tool works best in linear mode. But the effect is barely visible.
@@allenpayne9182 How do you know I have not tested it myself and just "blindly followed the opinion of someone else"? I actually have tested it myself and yes the difference is rather minimal. However, I did never say that this approach would give much better results. It is also not "something new", it is just technically (more) correct, that's all. Btw I think following the advice of Cullen Kelly even without testing things for yourself is not the worst idea... And no, the Film Look LUT's inside Davinci Resolve do not expect rec 709 but they transfer the image to rec 709 (or DCI-P3)... when you open these LUT's in the text editor you can see that all they expect is Cineon LOG as input gamma. It just so happens that the results work best when the color space is set to rec 709 before applying the LUT. It is just (as Cullen mentioned) not technically correct because film stock doesn't know rec 709. That is why ACES has invented the ADX standard as mentioned above...
@@TeipelFilms The "is not correct" part reminded me of conversations I had some days ago where people were quoting Cullen wrong and implying something that he never said. Anyway. You are correct about the rec709 part and I was wrong. my mistake.
gracias!!! 🙏
Easier to begin with a node tree with the transforms and luts so you can grade your footage with the lut applied right?
Yes!
Hi! I have a couple of questions, why dont you set cineon on your cst node? Also, would you color correct the shot first before applying the lut and push for the look after?
You mean on the first one? Because I would have a double log image then! I usually transform it to rec709 first to see what we are dealing with. Sometimes, I even balance it by myself without a lut.
There is another advantage to have the CST into cineon film log in a separate node. Once we do the Compound node (with the CST and the LUT) you can decrease the key output (transparency) of the compound node itself, and that would reveal the node with the CST to Rec709. this means you are dealing back the LUT and revealing the original Rec709 image (with proper saturation and contrast).
If we just use 1 CST node to send the image directly from RED Log to Cineon Film Log, then if we want to increase the transparency of the LUT node we end up showing the log image behind it, instead of the rec 709.
@@Gavin_Haughey_Colorist ah I understand! Thank you for taking the time to reply!
@@theflowowl thanks for breaking it down for me! I dont know how I did not see it that way, its so straightforward and i feel dumb for not seeing that straight away 😅
I love how you call them “circus creators” 💀
Thank you so much 🤍💯🔥
Cullen recently mentioned that even this approach is not correct because actual film stock 'doesn't know' rec. 709. A better way to do it is doing an Aces transform to ADX 10-CSC. The ADX standard was invented by ACES to come up with a solution for this exact problem.
Did he say that in a video? Which one? The thing with cg is: You learn something new everyday. Oftentimes, there is no right or wrong, just different approaches. But thank you very much for the hint, I will gladly check that out!
@@Gavin_Haughey_Colorist Yes, he mentioned it a couple weeks back. See here, minute 17:50 ruclips.net/video/uS0qmsw0mj8/видео.html&ab_channel=CullenKelly However, I personally cannot really implement this approach with my Sony a7s III because the profile is not included in the ACES transform :(
@@TeipelFilms Do your own test. The comparison between those two options is very minimal. And the LUT expects Rec709 as input. It is in the header of the LUT itself. Too often I hear people repeating things they hear from others without testing it themselves or just "blindly" follow "something new" just because it is "new". Same with "linear". I've seen many people doing CST sandwiches because they think a certain tool works best in linear mode. But the effect is barely visible.
@@allenpayne9182 How do you know I have not tested it myself and just "blindly followed the opinion of someone else"? I actually have tested it myself and yes the difference is rather minimal. However, I did never say that this approach would give much better results. It is also not "something new", it is just technically (more) correct, that's all. Btw I think following the advice of Cullen Kelly even without testing things for yourself is not the worst idea... And no, the Film Look LUT's inside Davinci Resolve do not expect rec 709 but they transfer the image to rec 709 (or DCI-P3)... when you open these LUT's in the text editor you can see that all they expect is Cineon LOG as input gamma. It just so happens that the results work best when the color space is set to rec 709 before applying the LUT. It is just (as Cullen mentioned) not technically correct because film stock doesn't know rec 709. That is why ACES has invented the ADX standard as mentioned above...
@@TeipelFilms The "is not correct" part reminded me of conversations I had some days ago where people were quoting Cullen wrong and implying something that he never said. Anyway. You are correct about the rec709 part and I was wrong. my mistake.