Okay, I will persevere. I was getting a bit of headache last night. I want to hear what your guest has to say. Excited to hear what you have to say about wolfriders. Low Ld, impetuous, and just absolutely punching above their weight. I wish I could play my Dark riders to do so much work.
@@CloseOrder I think there are probably a few factors at play: 1. While Wolfriders are not necessarily 'cheap,' they are cheaper and its just easier for them to hit my lowered expectations. 2. What is 'cheap' though is the entire army. "So what you broke my WR's. I got a million other tools to beat you down with." 3. Also,, I'm just bolder with them than I have been with Dark Riders. I have never once swapped shields for bows because it doesn't feel like an efficient trade (despite reserve & feint,) so their job has always been to charge and kill. With Dark Riders I'm always waffling, hang back and shoot or get stuck in. As you mentioned, all those xbows shots sound good-- at first. But where is that sweet elite infantry we can efficiently pick off? Not in the game right now. I think I need to play my DR's more aggressively. It can't just be block of CoK, Sorc on Dragon, Ambushing Shades, and a bunch of limp noodled xbow shots.
Squig hoppers are incredible. For 12 points, you get 1 S5 impact hit, 2 S5 Attacks at ap1 and armour bane 1 ( WS4! ) and the incidental night goblin attack. And due to random movement, they almost never die, because you just keep them behind hills/forests and they pounce when you need.
I agree. I think they're great value and the lack of charge reactions plus damage potential does keep them as a threat. If ignored you're get really good value, if not then with O&G target saturation something else is probably happy about it. You do have to jump a few hoops to field them however.
I like to put small units of glade guard in front of my wild riders like a 'gate' to keep them from charging out like idiots and killing a unit of doggos or something, but they are rather difficult to use properly against a canny opponent.
our group has give me the okay for arcane urgency on Screamers. Fly over twice and end out of LOS. It aint great but 6d3 auto hits against elves is not nothing. but yeah it aint great.
I'm somewhat out of love with the Hobgoblin wolf riders at the moment. The Khan is still an auto-include, because I like the big LD10 brick of hobgoblins. But when it comes to harrasing, attacking warmachines, getting behind lines it's the Sneaky Gits for me at the moment. Marching on in ambush and throwing 20 BS4 shots into something is way better than what the wolf riders are capable of. They are also cheaper and don't require the Khan if you really don't want one.
The mark of tzeentch applies when you cast a spell, so every non-caster tzeentch unit feels underpowered. They seem they pay a mark tax but get 0 benefits from it. There´s no problem with pink horrors, flamers and burning chariot, but blue horrors, brimstone horrors and screamers feel not great.
Razordons are just not good enough on dmg output, if they had some unique reason to take them, such as AP -3 or something, then maybe... but as it stands points would be better spent taking more skink skirmishers with jav+shield if you want more shooting. Both packs for Lizzies fell from excellent in 8th ed to terrible currently, imho.
And I prefer my centigors and my screamers than my wolf riders. So, I agreed to most of the top but I would those two higher a bit and put down significantly the wolf riders who is basically a suicide squad. And my chaos warhounds are way better than them, less than half the points to do, often, the same job, but better hahaha
Wolf riders better than outriders? You don't control them, they are worse in everything than outriders and they suicide themselves all the time. They are near the pistoliers. 16 points for a pistolier and 11 points for a wolves riders with a light armour. With feigneld Flight and reserve move, they are worth almost the same points as the pistoliers and they are way weaker and as crazy as them. I have a common goblins army and they are very difficult to play with.
You can bypass impetuous on goblins, they can always fire and flee and they are 2/3 the price of pistoliers. They're half the price of outriders which is pretty big deal when deciding if you want to take something.
Hobgoblin riders are near Goblins riders? They are the same but just better in everything!! It looks like you totally denied the fact that they are impoetuous hihihi
I am aware there are some audio issues, they do clear up in the second half. Apologies for this
Okay, I will persevere. I was getting a bit of headache last night. I want to hear what your guest has to say. Excited to hear what you have to say about wolfriders. Low Ld, impetuous, and just absolutely punching above their weight. I wish I could play my Dark riders to do so much work.
@@AP-hv9llI find Dark Riders much better than Wolf Riders, interesting we're having such different experiences!
@@CloseOrder I think there are probably a few factors at play: 1. While Wolfriders are not necessarily 'cheap,' they are cheaper and its just easier for them to hit my lowered expectations. 2. What is 'cheap' though is the entire army. "So what you broke my WR's. I got a million other tools to beat you down with." 3. Also,, I'm just bolder with them than I have been with Dark Riders. I have never once swapped shields for bows because it doesn't feel like an efficient trade (despite reserve & feint,) so their job has always been to charge and kill. With Dark Riders I'm always waffling, hang back and shoot or get stuck in. As you mentioned, all those xbows shots sound good-- at first. But where is that sweet elite infantry we can efficiently pick off? Not in the game right now. I think I need to play my DR's more aggressively. It can't just be block of CoK, Sorc on Dragon, Ambushing Shades, and a bunch of limp noodled xbow shots.
Squig hoppers are incredible. For 12 points, you get 1 S5 impact hit, 2 S5 Attacks at ap1 and armour bane 1 ( WS4! ) and the incidental night goblin attack. And due to random movement, they almost never die, because you just keep them behind hills/forests and they pounce when you need.
I agree. I think they're great value and the lack of charge reactions plus damage potential does keep them as a threat. If ignored you're get really good value, if not then with O&G target saturation something else is probably happy about it. You do have to jump a few hoops to field them however.
Defo right call to ‘fix’ audio issues
I like to put small units of glade guard in front of my wild riders like a 'gate' to keep them from charging out like idiots and killing a unit of doggos or something, but they are rather difficult to use properly against a canny opponent.
Pistoliers should have a "Fire on the Charge" rule!
our group has give me the okay for arcane urgency on Screamers. Fly over twice and end out of LOS. It aint great but 6d3 auto hits against elves is not nothing. but yeah it aint great.
I'm somewhat out of love with the Hobgoblin wolf riders at the moment. The Khan is still an auto-include, because I like the big LD10 brick of hobgoblins. But when it comes to harrasing, attacking warmachines, getting behind lines it's the Sneaky Gits for me at the moment. Marching on in ambush and throwing 20 BS4 shots into something is way better than what the wolf riders are capable of. They are also cheaper and don't require the Khan if you really don't want one.
That's fair! I really liked them early in the edition when a ruby Ring that reserve moved felt like a must have
Hobgoblins are rare, not special. Which actually is better since you don't want anything else from rare anyway whereas special can get crowded
The mark of tzeentch applies when you cast a spell, so every non-caster tzeentch unit feels underpowered. They seem they pay a mark tax but get 0 benefits from it.
There´s no problem with pink horrors, flamers and burning chariot, but blue horrors, brimstone horrors and screamers feel not great.
Razordons are just not good enough on dmg output, if they had some unique reason to take them, such as AP -3 or something, then maybe... but as it stands points would be better spent taking more skink skirmishers with jav+shield if you want more shooting. Both packs for Lizzies fell from excellent in 8th ed to terrible currently, imho.
Watching on replay now. Too bad with the choppy wifi. But good show in any case!
Thanks Nis!
Wait, stacking poison gives you 5+ poison hit?
The Spider Banner specifically gives you poison on a 5+ if you already have poison!
And I prefer my centigors and my screamers than my wolf riders. So, I agreed to most of the top but I would those two higher a bit and put down significantly the wolf riders who is basically a suicide squad. And my chaos warhounds are way better than them, less than half the points to do, often, the same job, but better hahaha
Can you please timesta..... yeah I said it.
Wolf riders better than outriders? You don't control them, they are worse in everything than outriders and they suicide themselves all the time. They are near the pistoliers. 16 points for a pistolier and 11 points for a wolves riders with a light armour. With feigneld Flight and reserve move, they are worth almost the same points as the pistoliers and they are way weaker and as crazy as them. I have a common goblins army and they are very difficult to play with.
You can bypass impetuous on goblins, they can always fire and flee and they are 2/3 the price of pistoliers. They're half the price of outriders which is pretty big deal when deciding if you want to take something.
Hobgoblin riders are near Goblins riders? They are the same but just better in everything!! It looks like you totally denied the fact that they are impoetuous hihihi
I will not stand for this wildrider slander.
Good job you're sat at your PC 👀