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Lennox package unit not heating
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- Опубликовано: 2 авг 2024
- In this video I find a Lennox package unit locked out on a blower switch alarm. I go through diagnosing this issue, quoting and returning for the repair.
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*Used to supplement the up stairs when it gets hot outside this works very well and **Fastly.Cool** Also works good when the upstairs gets too hot in the Winter from the heater.*
I love that when you had the power off you had to hit that secondary blower contactor lol 😂
Thanks
So much I don’t understand, but I keep watching and keep learning- thanks so much!
Happy to hear that!
Bloody good video , man , I love when you open up parts and show how it works , feels like I'm working and learning along side you , mate 👍
Thanks Sterling- not only is it educational- its fun
Absolutley enjoy all your videos because I am curious just like you. Keep them coming!
Thanks Andrew
That Lennox seemed very new and state of the art modern, really interesting to see cool.
Nice video Bill, I don't get to work on really any package units that big with my current company so see you break them down and be at ease with them makes me more confident for if/when I get to work on them. Keep the videos coming!
Hey no problem Joseph- Im glad you enjoy the content- Ive had alot of smart guys give me some tips on this particular issue, if you got time check out some of these comments-- alot of smart guys in here it seems, present company included
Funny how I picture the guys at Lennox tech support seeing my number come up on caller ID and someone saying, "Here's that 229 number again who wants it?" Really though. the guys at Lennox ALWAYS help me out and teach me something. I really like them a lot.
Lol- maybe when your number comes up all the guys grab the phone and pretend to be taking a call and the last to do that has to take your call, lol-- but ive found them to be very helpful and knowledgeable as well
It was already mentioned to check the hole where the tube penetrates. Something else I would have done is remove the 3/8” screws from the blower assembly and slide it out to look down the supply duct. I’ve seen the insulation come off and obstruct the air flow. It’s a sweet unit. Built for the technician. Also check your minimum hertz setting for the heat on the VFD. I don’t believe there will be any VAVs on that system but if they installed zone dampers this could also cause a problem. If their are zone dampers make sure the dump damper is operating. I miss the days,sitting in my bosses truck tearing shit apart to see how it worked. Now I have the helpers doing it in my truck lol. Stay safe.
Thanks ACTech-- Good point, I didn't think to yank that blower out and look down inside there, I've never experienced an obstruction in those before it never occurred to me. On this set up though there's no dampers or vav- just a big ol open return way up in the ceiling and a short ducted supply.
Thanks for watching bro
Even tho I'm retired , It's still fun watching all of you guys doing these vids ... Wish RUclips was around when I started out ... On second thought , it's probably just as good if it wasn't ... Lol ...
Lol- your right Eddy, youtube is good for somethings unless you start falling down youtube holes and end up wasting an entire day watching cat videos-- lol
I’m a lennox service tech an a lot of time I find the insulation behind that panel is blocking that hose causing the pressure switch not to close.
Keith Bell you work for Lennox NAS
Darren Hendrix Yes the Memphis Branch
Wow. Little Rock Branch here
We had some guys over there at your branch the other day doing NATE
Darren Hendrix Yeah I didn’t meet them cause I didn’t go to the office my nate still good.
I just started taking HVAC classes at my community College, well second semester on air conditioning controls and watching your videos helps me understand!
That is awesome!
Fabulously video thanking you yet again 💯👍👍👍
Good day Sir see still on the job...great love to see a working man work....
Thanks 👍
Check out the Prodigy app. You can look up alarms and a lot more stuff for Lennox units. It comes in handy when you can’t find a manual.
downloading it now- thanks for the tip
Great 👍🏻 video like always keep them coming
I had a similar problem with electric reheats in vav boxes.. I had to run the duct static pressure at ridiculously high levels to satisfy DP safety switches in the remote vav boxes on a duct zone with those switches set at their lowest levels in order to satisfy the switches to allow for the heat. I ended up bypassing the safety switches and wiring in a relay tied to a DO and programmed to set the DO when the air flow reading on the box was above a certain level. For additional safety I used N.O. contacts on the relay.
Love these video its sense me a lot...thanks for these video...👍👍❤❤
The fieldpiece SDMN6 is great for testing and calibrating pressure switches. It has a pump built in.
I've got one myself just to test the switches for instance such as this. Great video, as always.
Ive never heard of such a thing- ill check that out Lee-- thanks man
In an emergency they can be tested and adjusted. Disconnect the wiring and hoses, utilize your electronic manometer and ohmmeter. Place a tee fitting between the pressure switch and your manometer. At this tee fitting insert a syringe. It can be slowly depressed while watching/listening for the make/break setpoint. Do this several times if you suspect an intermittent problem.
Like you, I like to prove it to myself that it is in fact faulty.
love these videos, please do one on sequence of operation as per the electronics part of it, thanks.
Blower amp draw on LGH units and check the motor rating plate. Have so many that showed 4.8 amps on the unit label but are 4 amp motors. Factory set to max speed and motors were pulling 5.5 amps causing thermal overload every 5-10 minutes.
Great video. You did good job. Thank you for sharing ^_^
Thanks ZE
Nice explanation 👌
Thanks Jeff
Sometimes a Little Percussive maintenance is all that is Necessary, all my years of tearing shit apart to see how it works I have never done a Pressure switch, Thanks for sharing :-)
No problem- thanks for watching
When I was working with another guy we did this. I asked what that contactor was for and he told me to just push it in. Well backfeeding the vfd and boom!
Oh my- hopefully no one was injured but man that would be something to catch on film-
What a dick whoever that was that told you to do that
In the manuals. You should find a guide that will help you get close to the cfm design of the unit and may list motor rpm and external static pressure to get you in a safe place if you will. I don't care what the air balance company does after I commission a peice of equipment, but I find they have no understanding of safe operating parameters. So, sometimes you have to check behind them. I like your enthusiasm for the trade 👍
Thanks Brad- I do love this trade and I really try to get to the bottom of things, Im not always right, not always the smartest guy in the room but knowing that has helped me learn and grow by leaps and bounds. Thanks for the tip- Im doing a follow up next week so Ill check that out- thanks
That is a very informative explanation on that video !
Great stuff Curious Bill.!
Really got to feel like i was right there working on my favorite brand ..( Lennox).., ha.not.
Awesome stuff...
Bryan Tyler Refrigeration
Thanks Joseph- some other guys gave me some good tips on this issue, one of which being pull the blower and see if any insulation may have been blocking that pressure switch port-- thanks for the feedback Joseph-
@@curioushvacguy6876
That does make sense...
I did read that comment on insulation...
Agreed..very informative stuff..
Awesome..brother..
Good memory from Tech Support. At 62 I use voice recorder on my phone just in case. Ironically, when I record, seems I don't forget. When I don't, I do forget... Nice vid.
Hey Steve- well I hope at 62 Im still smart enough to remember how to leave comments on youtube videos, lol-thanks for watching
The little vent on the bottom of the switch is the backside of the diaphragm. If not vented would not compress due to air trapped also if did compress spring would have to over come a suction force of back side to open the switch IE would be closed all the time. So mush have neutral air psi behind diaphragm. To let switch operate easily as possible. I have worked on all type of controls and motor valves.. understand the principles of balanced control and valves. Some with diaphragm as large as 10 " in size. To have the force to open and close valve with as much as 10,000 pst of gas or liquid. The valve is controlling big stuff!!! In a oil refinery and other oil / gas heater stations lack units. Compressor units Etc. Crazy stuff.
Thanks for that knowledge bomb bro
@@curioushvacguy6876 Well it's old man in me, know too much and getting to old to use it.! Got to try pass on the knowledge. I try anyway not many listen or give a hoot!
OK, good one.
thanks nota newbie
Thanks you help me how to work with RTU furnace system. Must of my HVAC experience is through working in Florida which is a warm weather And know that I move to Northeast of the USA working with gas furnace is important
the contacts rust/corrode/build dirt or pit from arcing inside and get intermittent, I've replaced quite a few that way. some of them would only fail every 50 or so cycles! talk about a diagnostic pain in the rear
Im glad you said that, I thought it was just me-- Ive replaced a few those as well, must be low quality contacts in there
the spring in the tensioners tend to weaken and fail with age and that goes for all of them including automotive. so there's always a need to check belt deflection/spring tension
Good point- reminds me I need to get one of those belt tension/deflection tools
Usually the contactors that i work with on 5 hp to 100 hp VFD's with bypass kits have a set of contacts that disable the other one if someone switches or pushes in said contactor ,I surprised that Lennox hasn't thought of that problem could happen.
Hey there- Ive heard of those, never seen in person but your right that would be a good investment for people who mistakenly jam that contactor in without seeing what the rest of the system is doing first. Thanks for the feedback
5:30 :D If you do that one day stand WAY clear of the VFD because at 3-phase the VFD will pretty much be like a grenade. I have seen once some idiot connect one the wrong way and things were flying like projectiles and it sounded like a bomb went off.
sparks fly, magic smoke emits from the VFD, likely a loud bang, blown fuse or tripped breaker and soil in your shorts ;)
One day if I somehow have the opportunity, maybe when Im replacing one of those, im gonna push it and watch it blow-- just to satisfy my curiosity
#158 thumbs up
Thanks Steve
working on a Lennox M2 a few weeks ago, mechanic had the 3phases in and out together of the left three terminals. y on top of y, b on top of b, r on top of r.... and it ran full speed because it wasn't being modulated. Now we want to modulated the fan speed as needed, Time to run the unit modulated. RY&B on left side, RY&B on right side, applied power, and boom, main breaker tripped. no pushing in of contactors or anything. any ideas?
I wonder if it would be possible to put a fanless drive into one of these. Anything like this should have a fanless drive!
Thats a good question- I like your curiosity
wondering if a low cfm switch is made by Lennox? Or how many cfms would be needed to satisfy this switch?
Would it have hurt to adjust the motor puly just a hair? Just to get a tad bit more air out of it?
Hey Joe- In this case I would just be adjusting something I had no way of measuring, air balance or pressure in the building. I'm not an air balance guy and there's no way to even check static without opening the ceiling and bringing in a scissor lift-- but more importantly they have a seperate company that handles all of the air balance issues for there locations so I basically turn it over to them. If I blindly start messing with the balance and building pressure and make things worse and this customer finds out I did it, we would have to pay to correct it. It's fine line in the commercial world sometimes
Is it common for these adjustable pulleys to be left on after air adjustment? I have only seen them on rare occasions during the air adjustment process.
After air adjustment they are always changed to a non adjustable pulley with the appropriate diameter. Otherwise somebody will surely ruin the whole adjustment someday when they change the pulley or belts further on.
best regards from Sweden.
Great point- I see them all the time here and always think to myself the air is never going to be balanced again because people just adjust them however they want
Wasn’t that book in the top left corner of the controls section?
I hope not cause ill feel embarrassed, lol, sometimes I get used to them being in one spot and get tunnel vision I guess-- thanks for watching
Curious HVAC Guy sorry, but its at 16:10
So do you think they're probably going to call back for the same issue?
I hope not however some other guys said I should have pulled the blower out and checked for insulation around the pressure port that could be intermittently causing that issue-- so I kind of hope they do so I can go back and check that
"Air balance problem" for sure : Maybe the building pressure is too negative for the pressure switch to work : At some point the air downstream of the fan could actually become a slight vacuum relative cabinet and fresh-air intake. Let the engineers hurt their brains, they should know better. Once they figure it out, they should be presented with a certificate of "Air Handling Competence" :) All those exhausts fans need to be balanced with make-up air to not overwhelm the A/C units.
Differential pressure should be measured across the heat exchangers ( as indicator of required flow) and fan speed should respond to that. Probably merely an engineering over-sight that pressure drop across the fan would be used. Out in the real world "cause and effect" can not be assumed, results are what is important.
Also it is not forbidden to drive the fans with 70Hz is if fan motor temperature is sensed, why not take advantage of the VF drive -- assuming VFD controls voltage and frequency, and monitors current. It should be used as a load matching devise, not a marketing gimmick. Serious design issues hold back the industry from achieving its goals. A choice has to be make between high tech or 'old hat'.
I didnt know you could ramp those up to 70hz- also is there anywhere in the world that uses 70hz as the norm? I think europe uses 50hz and we of course use 60 but Ive never heard of anyone using 70-- thanks for the info Dunc.
@@curioushvacguy6876 Come to think about , even if the VFC could be hacked, it would be purely experimental, if a motor has not been tested to run at a higher frequency. When the real problem is air balance, faster fans might not even solve the problem.
It’s working because your there
I just gotta live there now-- get a nice tent, run some water up there and ill be all set, lol
Lennox should a current sensing relay for fan status of the control system , if no current draw from Fan motor it doesn't make .Much more reliable.
Have you ever Installed one after the fact and if so did it work as you expected?
How's it more accurate then the differential pressure switch? If there's no airflow the pressure witch will catch it, if you have the current sensor and say the belt breaks it still senses amperage and Wil still try and run
Most all of the building fans and rooftop fans we control use these. We don't have problems with the switches getting clogged or the contacts wearing . Because there is no tube. We take a belt off and adjust the sensitivity to open with that amount of current draw.
@@quimshtgclg sounds great if adjusted properly but most of the ones I see never are.
@@awsom70 WE have from 1 to 8 Large 20000 cfm to 100000 cfm fans ,also chill water and hot water pumps with the ability to deliver over 150 ft of head for chilled water systems and steam to hot water exchangers , our BMS controls used to have air flow and water flow switches ,but because of continuous adjusting and elements making them fail we went to current sensing relays , these relays come in various amp ratings to match applications . Our maintenance failures of fan proofing and pump has dwindled to replacing or adjusting once every 3 to 5 years .Some longer , I guess its just preference as to which type .
How many BTU’s is this RTU?
Like a diswasher pressure switch.
I believe so Juan- thanks for watching bud
Why is there not a termination for the thermostat
Where you at in Taylor
Right across the street from the Mall, on the side with best buy
Curious HVAC Guy lmao i know where we work at BJs a lot over there and Panera
Those controllers don't have NTP? It's used everywhere, that's a pretty big deficiency if you ask me.
Im going to show my humility here, what do you mean NTP?
Network time protocol en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Time_Protocol
Download Lennox prodigy app for alarms and troubleshooting
Will do, thanks Bob
tear it apart Bill,lets see.
Man, I was thinking static pressure. IE. Air flow.
Have you run into this issue before?
@@curioushvacguy6876 No, just a thought. Also the soft start ramp time. I appreciate your video 👍
if you like spending money you could get this manometer, it would work for static pressure, testing pressure switches and dual port. it can also measure inlet gas pressure and outlet gas pressure at the same time.
www.amazon.com/Fieldpiece-SDMN6-Pressure-Switch-Tester/dp/B00IJI0T6U/ref=zg_bs_5006565011_5?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=7T4MYPV59T80C3JMSKG5
i also like having a magnehelic even though that manometer has reliable accuracy for low static pressure. i recommend the dwyer magnehelic that does 0-1 or 0-2 inwc.
man it feels so good having the sickest tools. they last so many years.
did the tech support ask you to measure the static pressure through the tube?
Thanks for sharing that link- I will check it out. No tech support did not ask me to check static pressure-
After about 10 engineers bump heads together they will send someone up there and program the VFD to supply a little more RPM to the blower. Regardless of building balance or whomever spent 10 years in college studying it you need to satisfy the safety controls first. I know it's not your position to program the VFD yourself but you always get stuck with the blame because its your baby.
Your exactly right- in that situation I wish I had the knowledge and tools to test the building air and pressure but I do not-- thanks for the feedback
They made like shit!
They just have to add shit to may everything more complicated.Thats what they do.
Dooooo it Lol
Yes
You need a tripod.
Seriously. It would be nice to see him actually do something rather than seeing the before and after. Love the videos regardless. Keep it up.
I appreciate the feedback- I'll start getting more actual action shots in there - thanks for watching
I got one-- but I need a better one cause the base is to small and it falls over with the slightest breeze, unless I strap it down-- time to hit Amazon
You really need a tripod.
I got one coming in the mail- hope it's decent
@@curioushvacguy6876 Nice. It'll make your life easier. Carry on making great vids.